Title: John Kiriakou on Venezuela Strikes, Regime Change Talk,
Show: Connecting the Dots (Dr. Wilmer Leon)
Date: 2025-09-06
URL: https://youtu.be/_RqBVs-P6WY
Duration: 1:03:00

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[00:00] past the clouds over the dark night. She reached up to the sky of stars and caught the red hot light of the North Star. [Music]

[00:33] She opened. [Music]

[01:08] greetings and as always, welcome back. It's been reported that a strike carried out by US forces on a boat in the Caribbean Sea, which the White House says killed 11 drug traffickers, may have violated international human rights and maritime law, according to legal experts. May sounds like murder on the high seas to me. Let's connect some dots and find out. [Music]

[01:43] Connecting the Dots with Dr. Wilmer Leon, where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge. Welcome back to the Connecting the Dots podcast with Dr. Wilmer Leon and I am Wilmer Leon. You know, with each show, my guests and I provide insight and analysis into current events and the broader historical context in which most of these events take place. Let's quickly look at a couple of today's headlines. Raid at Hyundai factory in

[02:13] Georgia is Trump administration's largest yet. Law enforcement agents raided a Hyundai factory in Brian County, Georgia yesterday, arresting nearly 500 South Korean immigrant workers in the largest work site raid since Trump retook the White House. The massive raid follows months of strain negotiations between the US and South Korea over tariffs and investments. And in late August, the presidents of both countries met after Trump suggested that

[02:45] the US might stop doing business with South Korea. I tell you folks, this is a hell of a way to negotiate. Republicans in Congress earlier today unveiled legislation that would bolster the Trump administration's push to rebrand the Department of Defense as the Department of War, a moniker the US military apparatus held uh until it was changed in the 1940s to

[03:17] from the Department of War to the Department of Defense. Uh Trump floated this idea in recent weeks. He's expected to issue an executive order today and that is still going to require approval from Congress. And yes, that makes Pete Hegsth the Secretary of War. Oh, Pete, I'm scared. On today's episode, the issue of force is US Secretary of State Marco Rubio warned that the US may again attack

[03:49] vessels allegedly used for drug trafficking through the Caribbean, claiming that the cartels quote have used maritime routes for many years and quote to traffic drugs to the US and that intelligence and interception efforts are insufficient to combat them, making it imperative to take more dra drastic measures. Has the US become barbar pirates? Let's ask my guest. He's a former high-ranking

[04:20] CIA counterterrorism officer, the first US official to confirm CIA torture of detainees, pushed, I'm sorry, punished uh for being a whistleblower. He served nearly two years in federal prison. He also exposed the CIA's involvement in a secret rendition to torture in uh Syria. of Canadian citizen Mahair Aar. John Kiryaku, I'm proud to say my friend. My friend Kuryaku,

[04:50] >> welcome. >> Thank you. I'm so happy to be with you and thanks for addressing these these important issues. >> Well, hey man, thank you for joining us. And let's start with um murder on the high seas. I mean, I don't I don't know any other way. If it was in fact a drug boat, as I understand it, the protocol would be

[05:21] to capture the vessel, board the vessel, inspect the vessel, >> and then if contraband is found, then you seize the vessel, >> right? It's not so complicated, is it? >> I don't I don't think so. And I haven't spoken to anybody >> about this. That to me is just the logical way you do this instead of

[05:53] murdering 11 people, John. >> And that's really what this comes down to. It comes down to the murder of 11 people, none of whom none of whom had ever been charged with a crime by the US government or any other government. So, let's look at this a couple different ways. You recall, I'm sure, that just after becoming president for the second time, Donald Trump had the State Department designate the cartels as terrorist groups. Mhm.

[06:24] >> We all said at the time that the reason he did that, this was really a paperwork exercise where he did that so that it could free up um organizations like NSA for example or DIA to u to spend money on intersect intercepting communications on um using the money for training of Mexican or other uh nationals, etc.,

[06:55] etc. You talked about connecting the dots in your intro, and I think we're what we're seeing here is Donald Trump trying really hard to connect some dots that just aren't there. And what I mean is I think that in Trump's mind, the fact that he declared the cartels without actually naming the cartels as terrorist organizations, he thinks this then gives the US government the right to begin attacking anybody or any vessel

[07:27] whom Donald Trump deems to be a member of a cartel or a member of a terrorist group. In fact, that's not what we've seen here. What we've seen here is, for lack of a better term, piracy on the high seas followed by a mass murder. Uh there there was a funny well funny to me it's not funny haha it's funny ironic statement by the uh prime minister of Trinidad and Tobago a couple of days ago

[07:58] a woman whose name I don't recall now >> and um she said good on you Donald Trump thank you for saving uh the people of Trinid Trinidad and Tobago from uh having to deal with these drugs but then the other 15 members of this uh Caribbean cooperation. >> Caraccom, thank you. >> They said, "Wait a minute, not so fast. We have agreements with the United States, and the agreements state very

[08:28] clearly that the US has to coordinate any such attack with us." And they haven't. Not only did they not coordinate it, they didn't even inform us that they were going to do it. So, what are we seeing here? I think we're seeing and I I hate to be I hate to be so cynical about it, Wilmer. I really do. But I think what we're seeing here is a president who doesn't hate the notion of murdering people, >> people who have been never been charged with a crime.

[08:59] Uh because it makes him look tough and it makes him look decisive. And uh I think that's what what played out on the high seas. I think we're going to see more of it. Now, let me add one other thing. After I left the CIA and before I was arrested and and sent to prison, I was the chief investigator on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee working under its chairman, John Kerry. One of the investigations that I initiated and I I wrote and published a committee report on it was

[09:32] the drug trade in Central and South America and its effects on Western Europe. Okay. Most of the most of the drugs coming to the United States, most of the hard drugs coming to the United States come from obviously Mexico, but now mostly um Ecuador. Back in 2009, 2010, early 2011, there were drugs not coming from Venezuela, but passing through Venezuela. And the reason is that they

[10:04] were allowed to take off from airports in Venezuela unmolested and then fly to West Africa where the drugs were offloaded, put on camels of all things and then walked along tiar trade routes going back 1500 years >> to the Mediterranean coast and then put on um fast boats and sent to Spain for distribution across Europe. The United States never accused the Venezuelan

[10:38] government of being involved in such a thing. What we said was that these isolated Venezuelan air strips and airports were the locations from which these drug planes were taking off. Okay? We've never, as a government, we've never accused Venezuela of being involved in the drug trade. Now, Donald Trump wants us to believe that not only are the Venezuelans involved in drugs, but they are the kingpins of Central American, I'm sorry, South

[11:09] American drugs. And we're supposed to take his word for it when he tells us, well, listen, I had to kill these 11 guys. We don't know their names. We don't know who they are, but take my word for it. They were smuggling drugs, and somehow that was a threat to the United States. I I think uh when you mentioned the the uh prime minister from Trinidad and Tobago, uh Kamla Persad uh Bis Bissas Biser,

[11:41] >> right? >> I think is who is who you were were reference is making reference to. Um the the boat that they that the US attacked was not the usual type of boat as I understand it that drug traffickers would use. >> Correct. 11 people on the boat is probably more people than drug

[12:11] traffickers would have because people have weight and they much rather have 180 pounds of whatever drug they're transporting on the boat than than than Pedro or whoever else they want to put on the boat. I I I always ask my audience when they hear these types of stories, >> does it make sense?

[12:43] >> No, it doesn't make any sense. You don't have to be John Kiryaku who was on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and wrote a report on drug trafficking into Western Europe to ask yourself, does the story make sense? No. >> Oh, by the provided evidence. See, this is one of the things that I hate the most is this take my word for it attitude where if

[13:15] you could see the classified information that I see then you would know blah blah blah blah. It's all nonsense. They always say that when they don't want you to look into things. You you said something important I want to reiterate. 11 people on a drug boat tells me it's not a drug boat. for a couple of reasons. >> It's an evening It's an evening dinner cruise. >> It's so It's exactly right. But 11

[13:48] people on a drug boat is 10 people that can rat you out, right? You don't We don't want all those people to have access to the information. They're going to rat each other out to save their their skins. The point you made about weight is a very important one. Let's just let's just assume for the sake of simple math the 10 people too many each of them weighed 180 lbs >> times 10 is 1,800 lb.

[14:20] >> Yeah. That's almost a ton of cocaine of drugs that you could put on it that's wasted by these people just sort of sitting around waiting for the boat to dock wherever it's going to dock. >> It makes no sense. >> No. >> So go ahead. >> It doesn't make any sense at all. >> I interrupt you. Go ahead. >> No. No. That's exactly what I was going to say. Number one, there are too many people with access to the information. They're all going to rat each other out if they get caught. Number two, that's a ton of cocaine that they could have put on the boat instead of a ton of people just sitting there doing nothing. And third, listen, whether this

[14:52] administration likes it or not, we are a nation of laws. We are a nation governed by a constitution. And whether you like these people or not, whether you like what they're doing or not, whether you or accusing them of something that you wouldn't do is unimportant. What's unimportant is that they have a constitutional right to face their accusers in a court of law

[15:22] to to to be judged by a jury of their peers. not to just take a a rocket from a drone up the rear their rear ends and blow them to smitherines. So listen, whether we think we're the good guys or we think we're the bad guys, we committed a crime in this attack. This was an international crime for which no one will ever be punished. the the use the the the use of language,

[15:55] the the power to define is the power to control. And you were talking about Donald Trump using the term terrorist organization. >> Yes. I think along with the explanation that you gave it, there is another explanation. Not only does labeling whatever entity he's referring to as a

[16:26] terror organization then give him the ability to get on the phone and call various American intelligence or other types of operations and get them into gear. But it also then in terms of domestic news consumption allows him in his mind to get away with murder. >> Yeah. >> Because when he says, "Oh, this was a terrorist organization, you know, Sam Jones, the former mayor in Iowa, uh uh

[16:58] he's gonna say, oh, go get those terrorists." when he says um I have to send troops into DC uh for national security. Well, as soon as he says national security, well, in his mind, he can do anything he wants. >> So, go ahead. >> Anything. You've just reminded me of something, too. If you don't mind, I'm going to take a minute and give a little bit of background. >> Take two minutes. >> Thank you. I I might actually use the

[17:30] whole two minutes. In in 2008, uh I was uh I was working as a terrorism uh consultant for ABC News and the very first story that I covered was the arrest of a of a Pakistani American woman by the name of Dr. Afia Sadiki. >> I remember that. >> Remember Afia? She was at the time we were told that she was the most dangerous terrorist captured since Khalik Muhammad, right? And that she had tried to shoot two FBI agents who were

[18:02] trying to debrief her. And instead they shot her and she was almost killed. And she finally was brought back to the United States, put on trial, convicted, and she got 86 years in prison. That was in 2008. Now, here we are in 2025 and the truth is coming out that she never fired at any FBI agents. She never had a gun. Um, it was one of the FBI

[18:33] agents had set his gun down. He grabbed it and picked it up and a soldier shot her twice in the stomach. Well, at trial, one of the things that they that the prosecution produced, the justice department produced was a picture of the room that she was being interrogated in him in. And it had two bullet holes in the walls. And they said, "You see, she fired at the FBI agent. It's attempted murder. The bullets missed and they're in the

[19:03] wall." Well, her attorneys have just found a picture from that same room that was taken a couple of days before and there are bullet holes already in the wall. They didn't come from her. And now people are beginning to come forward and say, well, you know, okay, maybe she didn't shoot at the FBI agents, but she wanted to.

[19:33] And then in the meantime, she's been saying something and she's been called crazy because of it. She's been saying, "When I was arrested, the CIA stole my three children." Now, two of them were found and returned to Afia Sadiki's sister. The third, who would now be 18 years old, has never been found. Now, we were told in 2008, Wilmer, that none of this was true. None of it. She's

[20:04] lying. She's al-Qaeda. She made the whole thing up. And now they're saying, "Okay, it's true. We returned two of the three kids to the sister. We're sorry. We shouldn't have taken them." Oh, the third kid. You know what? When we were trying to take that kid to an orphanage, we dropped him on his head and he died. But remember, all of this was said to be lies in 2008, and now it's acknowledged to be truth.

[20:35] It draws a parallel, at least in my mind, with what happened on this ship. Take our word for it. Major drug smugglers. These drugs were going to end up killing Americans. There isn't enough Narcan to treat the people who are going to be affected by these drugs. We had to kill these people. I'm sorry, but I just don't believe a word of it. I don't believe a word of it because I know how the CIA, the State Department, DIA, DEA, ATF, I know how

[21:07] they are. They're all liars. And I know because I worked with them and I lived with them. They're all liars. And we can't believe a word that they say. Not until they lay out the evidence. And there's no indication that they're willing to do that. >> I thought you were going to tell me that uh Ms. Sadiki's third child was on the drug boat that was sunk in Venezuela. I thought that's where you were going. >> You know what? That probably would have given her closure. >> Um

[21:37] I >> Sorry, I didn't mean to throw you off your game there. >> No, no, no, no. I just I I I'm too silly for my own good. Um, the if there had been evidence, I believe Donald Trump would be wallpapering the Washington Monument >> and the Vietnam Veterans Memorial

[22:08] with the evidence. I think Lil Marco Rubio, >> Amen, >> would be would be running around like Barney Fe. Andy, see, give me give get my bullet. Get my see see I I think if they had evidence it we would be seeing it ad nauseium. >> Amen. It would be on the front page of every newspaper in America. And then Trump would be crowing about how he's saving the country from drugs. But there

[22:40] is no evidence. We're just supposed to take their word for it. Marco Rubio says, "The president has declared these organizations, Trend Dearagua, Cartel of the Suns, and all the others as narco terrorist groups operating in international waters, bringing drugs to the streets of America." and the president used the

[23:11] American force and power to prevent and protect America and we blew up a boat. This could happen again. It could be happening right now, tomorrow, or in a few weeks. He said this Wednesday in Mexico. Um, is this a predicate or a false flag that is really I mean where are the weapons of mass

[23:42] destruction in Iran? Um, is this what ever happened to those babies in the incubators? >> Yeah. >> Um, I is this is this the sinking of the main? >> Yeah. Wow. Yes. To answer the the question directly, >> there's a there's a bigger agenda here. I mean, he put 50 million >> he put 50 million on the head of uh Maduro >> and said that Maduro is and and and a

[24:15] number of leaders have come out and said >> a number of leaders in in South America come out and said >> this guy's crazy. Yeah. >> We're not we're not doing this. >> No. So no, you're 100% right. And see, this is something this is something that governments do, especially the US government. Uh you use the term false flag. That's really what what these things are. You know, going back to the babies in the incubators. That was a that was a an important event in my my early career. I had been in the CIA for

[24:46] less than a year. We're getting ready to go to war with Iraq. Mhm. >> And um and there's this young girl, this young Kuwaiti girl speaking impeccable English, testifying before the House of Representatives on the uh Iraqis, the Iraqi soldiers, pulling u pre prenatal, not prenatal, what's the term I'm looking for? Babies that need to be in incubators. Um pulling them out of the incubators. Yeah. Throwing them on

[25:17] the floor and then stealing the incubators. There were >> no but don't forget stabbing them with bayonets. Now >> I forgot I did forget about the bayets. >> The bayonets. >> So there are a dozen CIA officers. We're standing around the TV. We're watching this testimony. I was a minute late. So I finished whatever it was I was doing. I got up. I walked to the TV. All my colleagues are standing there and they're they're like shaking their heads like my god this is a crime against humanity what this poor girl is

[25:48] describing. And I said, "Hey, I know her." And my boss said, "What do you mean you know her?" I said, "That's so Nasser's daughter, the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States." I said, "I met her at a dinner party." And my boss said, "Well, wait a minute. That that doesn't make any sense." And then we all looked at each other like, "Oh my god, yes, it does make sense. This is a false flag. We stepped right

[26:18] in the middle of it and the American people are going to be convinced to go to war because this girl is saying that the Iraqi soldiers went into the hospital and stabbed premature babies and threw them on the floor and stole the incubators. That's the Kuwaiti ambassador's daughter. She's making the whole thing up. And of course she was. And we we saw it, you know, in the Gulf of Tonkin. Uh, we saw it, oh my god, repeatedly throughout the course of of contemporary American history. My guess

[26:50] is, and I think you agree, we're seeing it again right now. If if these guys had drugs and they were terrorists, and there are, you know, rewards out there for capturing terrorists, we would have grabbed them. We would have stacked up all the drugs and made a propaganda picture uh for it. We would have laid out all the evidence. We would have seized the boat and sold it at auction and we would have lived happily ever after. But this notion that we just, you

[27:22] know, fly a drone out there and just send a rocket that blows these people to smitherines, I'm I'm not buying it. take the uh incubator story and fast forward to see Ukra uh Russia went into Ukraine in February 22, >> right? >> So this was March or April.

[27:54] Russia sent a missile into a maternity hospital in Ukraine and killed all these uh babies. And I said, "Wait a minute, wait a minute, another baby story." >> There were all these babies in these incubators. And wait a minute, baby story. I've heard baby story before. >> Mhm. And what did we find out? That it

[28:26] wasn't a maternity hospital. Well, at I think once upon a time it had been, but it it had it it it it was formerly a maternity hospital that had been turned into a communication center for the Ukraine intelligence organization. >> There you go. which actually then makes sense >> that a missile somehow found its way. >> Oh, listen. When I during during the

[28:56] actual Gulf War, the the the hot war, >> um I'm sure that you remember we bombed using cruise missiles, we bombed a bunker in which the wives and children of Iraqi cabinet members were uh taking refuge. Okay. We killed everybody. We killed like 120 something people. And I remember this debate taking place at the CIA. Like, well, what did they think was going to happen?

[29:28] They shouldn't have been married to those evil people in the first place. And then somebody says, well, we can't use that as an excuse. They shouldn't have been married to the Iraqis in the first place. Well, maybe they had communications equipment down there. It's like, well, maybe they didn't have communications equipment down there. It's a bunker. It's a bomb shelter. The way it's this is women and children took refuge in a in a bomb shelter and we're trying to come up with an idea that's convincing enough to ourselves that we can go public with saying that well we

[29:59] we bombed it on purpose. We had to bomb it on purpose for these three really good reasons. There was no good reason to bomb a a fallout shelter. You know what we should have done was apologize and say we really screwed this up. We killed all these women and children. this was, you know, fog of war or whatever, but this was a terrible mistake and we apologize. >> We don't apologize ever as a policy. And so, we're not going to see we're not going to see any smoking gun in this Venezuela situation. We're not going to

[30:30] see any evidence. We're not going to see next week Marco Rubio doing a press conference saying, "Look, I wanted to lay out the evidence that we used. You know, we had these meetings with the Justice Department. Are we allowed to do this?" None of that ever took place. They were just looking for somebody to kill. This was the first boat that met the criteria and they fired. So again, false flag to

[31:01] provide the rationale for a larger mission. your thoughts on a and again the United States has put a bounty or has increased the bounty that Joe Biden put on the head of Nicholas Maduro. So the first point to that is >> this is not simply Trump administration policy. No, >> this is American foreign policy. George. Uh uh uh so so to to to that

[31:33] point um and now Maduro is saying I'm calling out my citizens militia. >> Mhm. >> And what a lot of people in the United States don't know is that when Maduro says that he isn't joking. >> That's right. The one thing the United States can't do is send soldiers into Venezuela because now you're talking urban gerilla warfare. You might as well go back to Vietnam and and uh and and

[32:04] and look at that video because that's what you're about to step into. >> Yeah. Or or Baghdad for that matter. >> Go ahead. This is something that the US is really very very bad at and that is what happens after the invasion. We're very good at invading people. >> Sure, >> that's easy. We're really bad at actually fighting the war and getting out and we get bogged down and everybody gets killed or maimed or wounded in some

[32:35] way and then they come back and we thank them for their service and they're allowed to board the airplane before we do. I mean, that's really what it comes down to. Um, Venezuela, Venezuela would be particularly tough for the United States because like many countries, there are people who love the government and people who hate the government. And for the most part, the people who hate the government have left. And so what you have now is a majority of people in Venezuela on the ground who are

[33:05] supporters of President Maduro. If the United States were to invade Venezuela, the American army would be almost immediately bogged down in a guerilla war, fighting doortodoor in a fight that they couldn't win. We've never been able to win in an urban area going doortodoor. Never. And at the same time, the Venezuelans have not just been sittling sitt sitting twiddling their thumbs for

[33:37] the last uh 10 or 20 years. They've been cultivating relations with China. >> Mhm. >> And where where you know most Venezuelan oil used to come to the United States because our refineries are equipped to handle Venezuela's oil, Venezuela's oil is very very dirty. It's the dirtiest oil in the world. It has the highest sulfur content in the world. So, you need specialty refineries to take the sulfur out. And where are those special refineries? They're in South Texas. Well, the Chinese went into the Caribbean and they

[34:08] built a refinery in the Caribbean. So, that oil doesn't need to come to the United States anymore. Now, the Chinese are involved and they have a real economic interest in maintaining good and safe relations with Venezuela. They're not going to let the Americans screw that up for them. the United States tried to impose Juan Guyaido on the people of Venezuela. Uh took over the Venezuelan embassy. I know you were down there uh in Washington uh during during that that protest. Uh then after

[34:40] Juan Guaido failed, Marina Machado, right, they tried to uh put her in in in the position. One of the things again that I think gets lost in the translation here in the west as the United States tries to vilify Maduro is Venezuelans don't see Maduro for the sake of Maduro.

[35:11] It's not this is not government by personality, >> right? It's the fact that Maduro represents the leadership of the Chavista Revolution. So, it's his adherence to the revolutionary ideology that they that that they align themselves with, not the fact he's a nicel looking guy with a nice head of hair and wears nice suits and and can

[35:43] probably chaa or morang, I don't know. So, as the United States tries to vilify him, that's a waste of time because in the in their minds, it's not about him, it's about what he's doing. Yeah, you're 100% right, uh, Wilmer. Yeah, you made me smile thinking back on on that last night in the Venezuelan embassy. Um, I I was one of there were a couple of dozen of us there, but the

[36:13] Venezuelans had asked us to go into the embassy the night that the United States broke relations with Venezuela. I still have the Venezuelan government's stuff in my house sitting around here in my house. They asked us just to hold on to it until they can they can re-enter the embassy and then we're just going to give them all their stuff back. But um that night that I was there, there was a huge crowd outside. People chanting, you know, pro- Venezuelan uh uh chants and

[36:44] people chanting anti- Venezuelan chants. And um so it came time to leave. I walked out of the embassy and I happened to walk past two secrets two uniformed secret service uh I don't want to call them agents but secret service uniformed uh service. Yeah. And one of them said to the other, "So tell me again who's who." And the other one said,

[37:14] >> "The ones that are out here are with us. the ones that are in there are with Putin. And I turned and looked like, what? And then I thought, no, you know what? It's not even worth wasting my breath. But this is the propaganda that the American government feeds to its own people and its own employees, frankly, >> right? >> To make it easier to hate people with whom we disagree on politics.

[37:44] So now we've gotten ourselves to the point where we can just drone a a boat and kill everybody. And then it comes down to, well, they weren't with us, so they were with Putin, so Maduro's with Putin, so that's okay. That's all right. I don't object to this. There's a there's another there's a piece in Newsweek uh that is uh entitled, "Could the US, France, and the UK, be the straw that breaks Maduro's back?" Uh Trump's recent

[38:16] decision to deploy eight warships, including a submarine near Venezuela, is the right one. Some might argue that the US is risking plunging itself into an ethnically questionable I'm sorry, ethically questionable war. But that is unlikely. Rather, this is a targeted effort to support a legitimately elected Venezuelan leadership against a fictitious president running a shadow narco terrorist organization.

[38:51] This is Newsweek. That doesn't even make any sense. >> This is Newsweek. >> It's like this uh Henry Jackson Henry Scoop Jackson Foundation, which for reasons that have never been clear to me is based in London rather than in Seattle or Washington DC. Uh but they came out with a report day before yesterday saying that that the government of Iran is on the brink of collapsing and that it could happen in the next two weeks. Well, I have friends in Iran now, good friends. I have

[39:24] friends who constantly go back and forth between Iran and the United States. >> There's nothing wrong with the Iranian economy or government right now. They have they have great relations with Russia, China, and India. >> They lack for nothing. Like, who is this report supposed to convince us? Again, if you have evidence, lay out your evidence and let us come to our own conclusions. Just like with Iran, Venezuela, lay out

[39:56] the evidence. First, well, here's here's the evidence. First, the Chaveis regime of Maduro is not operating like a real state or even a classic dictatorship. The international community has begun to recognize it is a criminal structure posing a security risk for the hemisphere. For 25 years, Chaveism has co-opted Venezuela's infrastructure for its own enrichment, persecuting

[40:27] journalists and opposition, wrecking the economy, and leaving its citizens in poverty. John, no mention of sanctions. >> Yeah. You know, and and this is the sick thing. Uh we never mentioned sanctions visav the Venezuelan economy. We never mentioned sanctions visav the Cuban economy. >> You've been to Cuba many times. I went to Cuba for the first time two years ago, two and a half years ago. And I was

[40:57] shocked first at how resilient the Cuban people are, but I was shocked at just how much damage the embargo does. And it's not just sanctions on Cuba, it's an embargo. Uh, for example, I foolishly said, um, my god, we got to eat squash with every single meal, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Squash, squash, squash. I I'm sick of squash. And the guy next to me is like, that's

[41:28] what the embargo did. They can only eat what they grow, and this happens to be squash season. I'm like, oh my god, I'm so ashamed of myself. I can't believe I didn't even think of that. Um, but then one of our one of our members of our group uh got sick. We were all sitting out behind our our hotel one night and a mosquito bitter and she got deni fever. So, she was taken to the hospital and had like 247 handson care where where

[42:01] they assign a nurse to you and the nurse like sits in your room for anything that you need. You need a drink of water, you need a a Tylenol, whatever, they're there to serve you. Um, the doctors of course in Cuba are used to dealing with deni fever and so they were able to give her an antiviral that made her feel better and she was she was released from the hospital a couple of days later. So she spent three days and two nights in the hospital. The bill was $75. >> Wow.

[42:31] >> But you can't pay it because you're not allowed to give dollars >> Mhm. >> to the Cuban government. And this was a government hospital. So, we had to go through this whole rigomeroll where some of us, I'm proud to say I'm I'm a Greek citizen as well as an American citizen and I brought euros with me and Greece does not have an embargo on Cuba. So, I was able to give

[43:02] them euros that they could then give to the to the Cubans. >> And the doctor said something to me afterwards. He said, he said, "Now, you see how things are with this embargo. If she had been Cuban, she may have died or she may have become profoundly sick because we just don't have access to all the medications that we need to treat all of the people in Cuba who need access to these medications simply because of the

[43:32] embargo." And I said something. thing. I said, "You know, I'm embarrassed to even say that I complained about squash the other day." And the doctor said, "Oh, I know what you're going to say. You're tired of eating squash." And I said, "Yeah, I'm tired of eating squash, but I had no idea that that with the embargo, you're not even allowed to import food." And he said, "This is a crime against humanity, and the world really doesn't know that it's taking place." And you know, even at the CIA, there

[44:03] were a lot of people that I work with at the CIA that that hated this embargo. And I remember one of them saying, you know, if we want the Castro was still in power at the time, but he said, if we really want the Castro brothers to be overthrown, the way we do that >> Yep. >> is to open open the first McDonald's. Absolut. Oh, John, >> that's it. >> No, >> I I was in Iran

[44:35] and I'm sorry audience for those of you that have heard this story before and um I'm sitting in the hotel and I'm looking at all these women that have all this surgical tape on their faces. >> I know what you're going to say. Yes. Yes, you're exactly right. >> So, I asked my interpreter Ali because I well, first of all, the first day I was trying to count them, but there were so many women that I I

[45:07] couldn't count them. So, a couple days later, I asked Ali, I said, "Man, what is what's up with this?" And he says, "Well, uh, Tehran is the cosmetic surgery capital of the Middle East." >> Yes, it is. And he said, "These Iranian women are looking at Western glamour magazines and they want to look like Western women."

[45:38] So, they're getting their noses done. And so, so fast forward, I'm on Press TV. I'm in I'm I'm at their stu main studio in Tehran. And >> the one we bombed, by the way. >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And doing this interview and the the guy interviewing me asks me, "What are your thoughts of the country since you've been here?" And I said, "Well, you know," I said, "Hey, man. Everything's great. The food is phenomenal. The people are beautiful.

[46:08] Blah blah blah blah." I said, "But here's one thing I think you need to pay attention to." I said, "You don't really need to be afraid of General Schwarzoff. You need to be concerned about Colonel Sanders. >> There it is right there. >> I said because when the two-piece in a biscuit hits your shores, that sodium, that artificial flavor, you are going to start seeing

[46:39] obesity, heart disease. You are going to start walking around here looking like Americans. And that's not a good look. Yeah, you're absolutely right. >> And I said, man, that two-piece in a biscuit's going to do you all in. >> My partner is an Iranian American. She has dual citizenship, and she has told me exactly the same thing that every time she goes, and she usually goes twice a year. >> Mhm.

[47:10] >> Um, every single time she goes, she speaks with foreigners. She lives in the center of Tehran. doesn't I mean when she's there she lives in the center of Tan. She has a she has an apartment. Um and she told me the last trip that she spoke with people from Oman, people from Kazakhstan, people from Eastern Europe. Why are you there? Oh, I'm here for a nose job. I'm here for new veneers on my teeth. I'm here for a facelift. You know, here in the West, we think, oh,

[47:40] Turkey is the place to go now for cheap cosmetic surgery. Oh, no, it's not. Besides the fact the Turks are going to ruin your your teeth, it's Iran. It's Iran and it's a fraction of the price. >> Cataract surgery was invented in Iran. >> In Iran. Exactly. >> That's exactly right. >> Yeah. Brilliant, beautiful, wonderful people. The food is just incredible. The squash is

[48:12] I didn't know squash tasted like I didn't know a tomato. >> Yeah. They're like apples. >> Monsanto hasn't gotten there to kill their soil. >> Mhm. >> I didn't know a tomato was that red. >> Yeah. >> And like you said, like an apple. you know, when I was living in Bahrain, I lived in Bahrain from 1994 to 1996, and even before that, I was living in Kuwait in 1991, just at at the uh the end of the war. Um, we would get these

[48:44] vegetables, just guys on the side of the street, on the side of the highway, would lay out fruits and vegetables and you could buy stuff. So, there were these melons. They were shaped like a football and they were um pale yellow. And I was like, "Oh, I've never seen a melon look like that before. I'll buy it. How much is it? H, it's a dinar. $2.65. Okay, I'll buy one. So, I bought it. The inside was white and it was like eating pure sugar. Juicy.

[49:14] >> Mhm. >> Sweet. Magnificent. So, I see the guy the next day and I said, "I want to buy another one of those melons. What are these melons anyway?" Oh, he says, "That's called the Iranian melon." I said, "Well, come on. I mean that's not really the name. He said I don't know the name. We just call them Iranian melons. And I said so are they from Iran? And he said yeah Dows cross the Gulf every day and then early in the morning the Dows land at the port. The the Iranians on the Dows are

[49:46] not not allowed off. >> But he said we just go to the DAO. We agree on a price. We buy their fruits and vegetables and we sell them just on the side of the street. It was the most magnificent fruit I've ever eaten in my life. And I've not been able to find it anywhere else outside of the Persian Gulf. >> But it was the same thing in Kuwait. Kuwait. I went in to Kuwait City with the Marines on Liberation Day, February of 1991. The whole country's on fire.

[50:17] There's no food. We're eating MREs. And um I would go down to you know those three towers. It's kind of the symbol of Kuwait. It's called Kuwait towers. >> U the Dallas would dock there and we would buy pomegranates and tomatoes and cucumbers and lettuce and these melons and apples and I mean you name it, the Iranians were growing it and it was absolutely magnificent.

[50:48] I can't wait to go to Iran. I've been invited a number of times and I haven't been able to go. But one of these days >> I've been twice. Would love to go. Would love to go back. Um if well that's another story. Uh Robert Brown asks, "What other tactics will the United States use to depose the government of Venezuela?" >> Yeah, that's a good question. Um well if

[51:18] if other countries in the region well and outside the region serve as an example um I think we are going to encourage violence and make it look like it's interessine violence. It's it's one Venezuelan faction against another Venezuelan faction. So we say oh no this has nothing to do with us. This is just Venezuelans hate Maduro and they're trying to win their freedom, their liberty, and all this other nonsense that we say about everybody else. That's

[51:50] my guess. My guess is we're going to see violence, but it's not going to point directly at us. And then at some point we're going to say, "Oh, the brave Venezuelan freedom fighting people are asking for our help to liberate them from this narco terrorist state that Maduro is running. We better go in there and help the Venezuelan people." That's what I fear. And I think that's what John Bolton tried to do in Trump won. Uh, you

[52:22] know, when we were at Sputnik Wilmer, I always always referred to Juan Guyaido as George Washington University grad student Juan Guyaido because that's all he was. >> Mhm. And then finally, somebody with I think it was MSNBC, I may be wrong, asked Bolton, when he was still national security adviser, "Why do you continue to refer to Juan Guyaido as President

[52:54] Guyaido when the Venezuelan Constitution says that if he doesn't assume office within 30 days of his election, he's no longer the president?" And Bolton was just like, "Oh, I'm" And he was never elected. >> No, because nobody bothered to read the Venezuelan Constitution. >> Nobody bothered to read the Constitution. Robert Brown writes, "Raising the level of awareness is critical to counter and defeat Western

[53:26] hedgeimonyy. This platform provides the political education necessary to help us in our struggle." Robert, thank you. I I I that means more than you know. Uh Chance Wilson, thank you for that $20 super sticker. You know, you talked about um violence and that one of the tactics that the United States would turn to is internal inter enter intercene violence. And that made me think about sanctions.

[53:58] And what people don't know don't really apprec or understand is sanctions accomplish you. Sanctions usually accomplish the very opposite of what it is. >> Absolutely true. >> Are designed to accomplish. >> Absolutely true, Wilmer. I'm so glad you brought that up. >> Go ahead, John. Sanctions weaken the United States. Okay. Time was where we put sanctions

[54:30] on, you know, whatever, Nicaragua. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Well, now we have sanctions on half the countries in the world, including the most powerful countries in the world. We have sanctions on the Russians. We have sanctions on the Chinese and sanctions here and sanctions there to the point where nobody cares about our sanctions anymore. I was in China a year ago and I was surprised at how difficult it was for me to find a place that would take my Visa card. Everybody took this thing called the Octopus card. So I asked one of the

[55:02] shopkeepers, I said, "What is this octopus card? Why don't you just take the Visa card?" And he said, "Because the Visa card has to go through New York. The Octopus card goes through Shanghai. and so we don't care if you put sanctions on us. It doesn't affect us because we all use Octopus card. And I said, you know what, that makes perfect sense. So what has happened is we have so overused sanctions to punish countries that we don't like

[55:32] that they've finally worked out a way to just evade our sanctions, avoid our sanctions. They don't need us. And as a result, it has weakened the United States. And so my view is sanctions should be reserved for the worst players in the world and should be imposed in concert with everybody else in the world. For example, sanctions helped to bring down the government of South Africa. That's what sanctions are

[56:03] for, >> right? Sanctions aren't just I don't like your politics, so uh from now on here are some sanctions. That's that that doesn't benefit anybody. It just hurts us in the end. >> Well, and here's another thing. We believe in the West. We impose sanctions on the Cuban government. We impose sanctions on the Venezuelan government. The people are going to get hungry and frustrated and

[56:36] they're going to turn on the leadership. >> No. >> What? Never happens that way. Never. >> Because the sanctions strengthen the sense of nationalism. It enables the leader to create the narrative of it's not me, it's Donald Trump. >> That's right. >> It's us against him. And then the people go, "Yeah,

[57:06] because it's the United States imposing sanctions on us >> because one of the points you made earlier, most of the Venezuelans that don't like the government have already left the country." >> Yeah. They're here >> and they're about to get sent back because because Donald Trump has taken away their temporary protective status. >> That's right. Um, so they don't work. >> No. >> I I've asked folks uh others who who

[57:39] study this much much more intently than I do. Can you name me three circumstances in the last 60 years where sanctions have resulted in the desired intent? >> They don't work. >> No. And did you see the news from a few weeks ago? I'm sure that you did, that the Trump administration imposed sanctions on the Brazilian judge that's overseeing the the trial of former

[58:09] President Bolssonaro. >> Yes. >> Well, how would they like it if President Lula imposed sanctions on Donald Trump? Because I would bet my next paycheck, Wilmer, that Donald Trump has significant economic interest in Brazil and that would hurt. Uh that would not surprise me in the least. And the judge made the point uh and and and yet and to your point, it would not surprise me if Donald Trump has uh

[58:40] financial interests there as he does in the settler colonial state known as Israel. >> That's right. >> Uh Kevin Baptist, thank you for that $10 super sticker. Uh John on a podcast you said one of the dopiest line dopest lines a brother has ever heard. You said the oppressor will not participate in your liberation. Keep grinding man. >> Thank you Kevin. >> You know there was somebody back too. Let me go back. I hope I didn't freak

[59:12] out. Ramp lens01. I didn't mean to scare you about your teeth. He's going to go to Turkey soon um to get his teeth fixed. Before you do, um, Google some of the, uh, what some of the the Brits have written about going to Turkey to have their teeth done. You might want to go to Iran instead. >> And they know about and they know about bad teeth. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they do. Yeah. >> Uh, as I, Dr. Leon, as I said before, it's not the government's fault. It's the people that allow it to do whatever

[59:43] they want, even against themselves. Where are the Americans protesting on the streets? You you're absolutely right. >> Yeah. >> I think there's this document, you may have read it. Um >> there's this document. It starts with >> this really catchy line, we the people. >> What is it called? >> Right. Oh my god. >> You may have Yeah. >> Yeah. I do I do recall hearing Yeah. >> the people of the United States of

[1:00:13] America in order to form a more perfect union. >> There you go. There you go. There you go. You know what? I think there was a Beatles song, >> right? >> Uh Shelly H, thank you very much for that $10 super sticker. Greatly, greatly, greatly appreciated. Uh John Kuryaku, man. Thank you. >> Thank you. Such a pleasure to see you again. I feel, you know, we used to sit next to each other. For people who don't know, we used to sit next to each other at Spunik and I so miss those days and, you know, having a a chat before we would go on the air. And it was a real

[1:00:45] pleasure to work with you, Wilmer. >> Well, and and I you and the the the pleasure was was and continues to be mine. >> Thank you. >> Uh folks, one of the reasons why uh you haven't seen John Moore is because he's always traveling. >> Yeah, I am. >> So, uh looking forward to having you back, man. Thank you. >> I look forward to it. Thank you. >> All right. Enjoy the weekend, man. >> You too. All the best. >> So, folks, look. Uh, let me say this.

[1:01:18] Let me Well, hang on. Before I do that, let me let me do this. I got to be sure. Oh. Um, uh, I did that one. Uh, please last in. Okay. Okay. Okay. Cool. Um, thank you all so much for listening to the Connecting the Dots podcast with me, uh, Dr. Wmer Leon. Stay tuned. New episodes next week. Can't tell you who the guest is, but trust me, as the Moonman would say, it's going to be a big one. Also, please follow and

[1:01:49] subscribe, leave a review, share the show. You got to be from DC to understand the Moonman reference. Um, please follow and subscribe, leave a review, share the show, follow us on social media, folks. We I can't I can't stress enough. We are truly in need of your support. And uh we need you to subscribe. We need you to share the show with others. Um because I don't think 99% of the facts that you heard today

[1:02:22] you would ever hear on the mainstream outlets. Why? Because this is where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge. Talk without analysis is just chatter. And we don't chatter here on Connecting the Dots. Have a wonderful, wonderful, blessed weekend. See y'all on Monday. Until then, peace. I'm out. [Music]

[1:02:52] Connecting the dots with Dr. Wilmer Leon, where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge.
