Title: Does the Charlie Kirk Case Have Evidence Gaps?
Show: Covert Operations Insight
Date: 2026-05-18
URL: https://youtu.be/2zy79qrNm-k
Duration: 55:00

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[00:07] How real is the nuclear threat with Iran? Oh, I think From Iran? >> From Iran. >> Oh, no. >> Not not to nuke Iran. Like the the excuse that everyone on on Fox is giving that they were so close to a nuke. >> No. There there were two, count them, two CIA not not even CIA intelligence community national intelligence estimates saying that the Iranians had no nuclear program. A national intelligence estimate >> close to what Didn't they have like the enrichment level at a certain No. A certain percentage. >> No, but they could have gotten there.

[00:38] Okay. Yeah. They could have gotten there. But two things. A national intelligence estimate is the highest level piece of analysis that comes out of the intelligence community. They're usually written by CIA analysts. Although they they can be written by anybody in the community. Um and it's a sense of the community paper where literally everybody in the all 18 intelligence organizations in the American intelligence community agree. I

[01:10] wrote one once on Iran. >> Wow, 18? There we have 18 intelligence services in our country. That's [ __ ] bananas. And cuz most countries have one. >> And they all work together on this? Yeah, you have to. So it's under the auspices of the DNI. Mhm. When I when I wrote my NIE, there was no DNI. So it was under the auspices of something called the Nick, the National Intelligence Council, which now sits under the DNI. So I I wrote the paper, took me a couple of weeks. We send it out to all 18

[01:41] services, everything from, you know, DIA and NSA and, you know, State Department Bureau of Intelligence Research to Coast Guard Intelligence and everybody gets one. And then there's a big meeting. You're all around this all all 19 or all 18 of you plus the the national intelligence officer for the region. You're all sitting around this conference room table. The NIO chairs the meeting and everybody's got the paper in front of them and then he says,

[02:11] "Okay, everybody first sentence." And he reads the first sentence. "Any objections? Any changes?" And you go around the table all 18 of you. And you go line by line by line. Sometimes it takes weeks to coordinate this paper. They did this twice and both times the conclusion the unanimous conclusion of all 18 intelligence services in the US government was that the Iranians don't have a nuclear program.

[02:43] Besides that What does that mean a nuclear program? >> A nuclear weapons program. They're not seeking a nuclear weapon. They're not enriching uranium for a nuclear weapon. Okay. They're not seeking one. So that doesn't mean they're not enriching uranium at all. Oh no and they were clear that they were enriching uranium but they were using it for you know medical research and nuclear power. They they were talking to the Russians and the Chinese about building a nuclear reactor. Okay. Yeah,

[03:14] they were not enriching it to levels necessary for a nuclear weapon. Got it. And then people are like, "Well, what about a dirty bomb?" What about a dirty bomb? If you have intelligence that they were working on a dirty bomb, I urge you to call the director of national intelligence and inform her cuz nobody else thinks that's the case. Mhm. The other thing is as far back as 2000 I think it was 2003 Ayatollah Khamenei issued a fatwa saying that the government was forbidden from building a nuclear bomb because it

[03:47] was un-Islamic. So there was no nuclear weapons program. It just didn't exist. This this notion that they were, you know, 6 weeks away. They've been 6 weeks away from a nuclear bomb, according to the Israelis, since 1985. >> Right. So, [clears throat] this is all just Israeli propaganda. >> And now, where do we get that intel? Do we have people in there embedded in there? >> No. See, that's the thing. We have been notoriously bad about

[04:17] developing human sources inside Iran going back decades. We don't have an embassy there. You know, it's it's it's hard. You have to do it through cutouts or third countries and, you know, I met a guy once from one of the CIA's sister agencies was always talking We were in training together. Always talking about my guy, my guy, my guy. I got to call my guy. He's got I go, "Who is your guy?" And I'm thinking I'm from the CIA. I I haven't heard any of this stuff. Well, his guy is a freaking taxi driver in San Jose, California.

[04:48] And he's got a cousin in Tehran. He's like, "Yeah, everything's good over here. Nothing going on. I saw some cabinet member drive by the other day." And he's like typing it up as intelligence. That's not intelligence. Your guy, he's not giving you anything. The Israelis, though, the Israelis do have a presence. Um they're very, very good at recruiting spies to steal secrets. What they've focused on in recent years is recruiting for targeting purposes, recruiting

[05:20] Afghan refugees. Um Iran's a poor country. They don't provide for refugees. So, if you come across the border from Afghanistan, you don't get food, you don't get housing, you don't get medical, you don't get squat. Mhm. You're eating out of the trash can. So, the Israelis go up to you and say, "Hey, listen, I'll give you $100 a month if you uh just watch that apartment right there and write down the times that the nuclear scientist leaves his apartment every single day. And then what time he returns. $100 a

[05:51] month. Well, you you hire 5,000, 10,000 people like that. And then in the meantime you have your hackers hacking into the the Tehran traffic cameras so you can actually watch the generals and the scientists driving, you know, down the street. You know exactly where they're going to be at exactly what time. And that's when you rocket them. It's good tradecraft is what it is. But the thing is

[06:21] that's tactical intelligence. It's not long-term analysis. They don't have anybody in the Ayatollah's office to say, "Hey, listen, the Ayatollah, he just made that fatwa just for public consumption. What's really happening is this." There is no such person. There is no such recruited asset. And so the Israelis make it up. And then they send it to the CIA. Oh, I still have friends in the CIA. They tell me the Israelis send us this garbage intelligence all the time that they know is false because they act like we don't

[06:54] know anything at all that's going on. We actually do know some of the things that are going on. We don't have assets on the ground necessarily, but you know, we'll read the stuff and we'll say, "Ah, they're making this up." You know, there was another service that did this. I'm not going to say which one, but there was another service that did this with Iraq back in 2002. And I remember going to a meeting one time. It was a bunch of analysts. I I went representing the deputy director. And and the intelligence report that this

[07:26] liaison service gave us, it wasn't even formatted properly. Like it wasn't even in the right font. And I'm like, "You guys, this is clearly a forgery." And everybody's like, "Yeah, it's clearly a forgery." And we just threw it away. Well, the Israelis aren't that stupid. They at least say, "Listen, we've got a source, very sensitive. We can't tell you who it is. Take our word for it. We polygraphed him, so we know he's telling the truth. And here's what he says." And it's just all made up. Next thing you know, you're in a war.

[07:58] Ah, it's so it's so insane. Um You know, this is another thing. The Israelis always say that Iran is an existential threat. Yes. >> Okay. To them. Not not to us. >> Right. Even if they had a nuclear weapon, which they don't, they don't have a delivery system for it. You know, they they they fired two rockets at Diego Garcia the other day. What they did to reach Diego Garcia, because they normally cannot fire a rocket that far, is they stripped it down, so there was nothing in it. It had

[08:28] no payload. It was just an engine and a cone. Huh. Just to see how far it could go. And it got to [clears throat] Diego to Diego Garcia. Well, Did it mess anything up? >> No, it was intercepted. They were both intercepted and shot down. But that was Diego Garcia's a creepy one. Yeah. I heard somebody I heard somebody told me that once that that's the Area 51 of the Indian Ocean or something. Howdy, folks. 70% of y'all aren't subscribed. Did you know that? So, if you're already watching, I think you rock, and I'm really glad you found us. So, hit the subscribe button down below to get more

[09:00] awesome episodes like this, which will also help us get more great guests. Now, back to the show. To all the countries that can't get jet fuel from the Strait of Hormuz, like the United Kingdom, which refused to get involved in this decapitation of Iran, I have a suggestion for you. Number one, buy from the US. We have plenty, because I got it from Venezuela, right? That's right. Number two, build up some delayed courage and go to the Strait and just take it. You'll have to start learning how to fight for yourself. That's funny. The USA won't be there to help you anymore, just like you weren't there for

[09:31] us. Iran has been essentially decimated. The hard part's done. Go get your own oil. Okay, so there are like several different war crimes there. >> [laughter] >> Admitted. You can't take another country's oil. It's like quite literally written into the war crimes law. Right? You can't steal the natural resources of another country. It's the definition of a war crime. You can't do that. Number two, buy from us.

[10:02] We have plenty, the US. Yeah, that's true. Um it's more expensive, but sure, they could do that. Build up some delayed courage, go to the strait and just take it. That's also a war crime. It's sovereign Iranian territory. The only legal way for the United States or any country to move into Iran is if the Iranians invite us, right? If the Iranians attack us first, which they didn't, or with the approval of the United Nations Security Council, which hasn't even met on the issue because we would

[10:34] veto it. So, hmm, it's a war crime. You can't do it. Plain and simple, you can't do it. Now, Donald Trump, not even just in the same day, the same like part of the day, said, "We don't need NATO. They're weak. They don't do anything." Well, if you don't need them, why why are you yelling at them to come and take the strait? Why don't you take the strait? You're already there. >> Right. Just take it if you want to take it. So, you know, either NATO is weak or

[11:06] it's not weak. Either it's cowardly or it's not cowardly. He said something the other day about NATO that was also false. He said that NATO's never done anything to for us. They've never helped us. That is patently untrue. The only time in history where Article 5 was invoked and a country asked a NATO member country asked the rest of NATO to come to assist was on September the 12th, 2001, we invoked it,

[11:36] and we asked NATO to help us fight Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, and they agreed. It's the only time they've never asked us for help. Never. Never in history since the formation of NATO, 1949. So, he's just wrong. So, That's it. So, what what is like the the high-level What is your high-level takeaway from from his state of mind when he wrote this? What is Yeah. >> What what do you think is happening? >> I think that >> And what is he seeing?

[12:06] >> he's frustrated for two reasons. I think he's frustrated cuz Netanyahu lied to him. He lied to him, and I'll get back to that in a second. But, I think he's frustrated because he believed, mostly cuz Netanyahu told him so, and and we were taken in a lot of Israeli finished intelligence, written intelligence. We can talk about that, too. He really believed that as soon as we fire the first shot, that government's just coming down. Especially when we decapitate it, we kill the Ayatollah, we kill the entire

[12:39] military leadership, we kill the entire nuclear leadership, and they just keep going like nothing happened. That's not what Netanyahu told him to expect. And I think you're on record saying the Joint Chiefs told him that this wasn't going to work. Yes. And he ignored [snorts] them. Yes. It's been my experience at the CIA that the Joint Chiefs are the last ones that want to go to war because they know how hard it is. You know, this was one of the most valuable lessons I learned when I was at the CIA during the Iraq war.

[13:12] Um I was the executive assistant to the CIA's Deputy Director for Operations, and so we started planning the Iraq war a year in advance. And one of the things that I came to learn was that it's easy to invade a country. It's easy to overthrow its government. It is impossible to be able to get out intact. There's never an exit strategy. There's no exit strategy here in Iran. There was no exit strategy in Afghanistan. There

[13:43] was no exit strategy in in Iran. We're still in Syria, albeit, you know, in small numbers. There's never an exit strategy and the Joint Chiefs know this. They're like, why would we commit to fighting a war indefinitely? We just got out of two 20-year wars. Right. Why why would we want to do it again? And to what end? Let me add one other thing. I've said this before, I'm going to say it again cuz it's important. And this is not specific to Netanyahu. But every single Israeli Prime Minister

[14:15] from the mid-80s onward when they would come to Washington and they come to Washington all the time would ask every single president from Ronald Reagan onward please bomb Iran. Please bomb Iran. Please bomb Iran. And every single president said, "No, I'm not going to do it." Until this one. There was a story just a couple of days ago uh about um Bill Clinton, I'm sorry, not Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, where Netanyahu came and said "We want uh we want you to

[14:46] attack Iran." And he said, "I'm not going to do it." And Netanyahu said, "We're thinking of using nuclear weapons." And Obama called his bluff and said "Go ahead. We're not going to help you." And they The same thing happened with Trump. That's the way I hear it from people in those circles. The same thing happened with Trump. And then he thought he was doing the world a service by bombing Remember we used the MOAB, the the mother of all bombs, the

[15:17] 30,000-lb bomb on a bunker last year? >> Mhm. I think the president really believed that he was doing that to save Iran from a nuclear attack from the Israelis. Mhm. Mhm. So, if all these presidents, including Trump, campaigned on not going to war with Iran, and on the at the same time, you can play video clips and read tweets of Donald Trump >> Yes. talking about how stupid it would be to invade Iran. And you could play those videos and they they wouldn't be done till next week. >> Yes. Why is he the first one to do it?

[15:49] And in his first term, didn't he kill um Yeah. Soleimani, is that his name? Uh Soleimani. Soleimani. He killed Soleimani. Yeah. And and what did they do in response to that? >> force. Um nothing. They did nothing. In fact, scholars uh created a name for that. It was um strategic patience. >> [snorts] >> Strategic patience. Sure, they could they could launch a rocket at, you know, some American military base in the Gulf, but they didn't. They could send a hit

[16:20] team out to do something, and they didn't. Now, remember what was it, a week ago, 2 weeks ago, there was news about these Iranian hit teams that are everywhere from Chicago to Honolulu. Sleeper cells. All that shit's made up. That all came from Netanyahu. And it was to try to to change American public opinion. He reads the same polls we read. And the polls say that Americans don't want to be in this war. And so, he's like, well, you know, the intelligence shows a grave danger. No,

[16:51] you're just making it all up. There's no grave danger. >> When he killed when he hit the the strikes that killed uh Soleimani, Soleimani, um do you think he was trying to start a war there, or do you think that he knew they weren't going to retaliate? >> I think he I think he calculated that they would not retaliate. And I think the analysis coming out of the CIA probably was that they wouldn't retaliate. That they would be so so taken by surprise, yet reticent to poke the hornet's nest

[17:22] that they would just let it go. And they did, they let it go. They [ __ ] about it all the time. There were demonstrations in the streets. Something like 700,000 people went to the funeral, but they didn't respond. So, uh what is your take on this whole Joe Kent resignation? Oh, I sent you the the I sent you the clip of what was her name? Whitney Webb. Yeah. >> Who I like. I love her stuff. I I'm I'm halfway through her one of her books

[17:53] right now. I think she's super smart, very diligent. >> Yeah. Um and you know, when I heard her make this take about Whitney Webb, I'm like, okay, maybe she's connecting some dots or seeing some [ __ ] fractal pattern that I'm incapable of seeing because she's done so much research. >> Right. Um but we'll talk about that. What what is your whole take on everything? >> she's great when it comes to some of these issues. She's great, for example, on the Epstein files. Yes. >> Just wonderful. >> And on other issues, yeah, that's right.

[18:24] That's right. Deep research. I think she's just plain wrong on on Joe Kent. Funny, you know, I I didn't I didn't support his uh his nomination to be the director of the National Counterterrorism Center. I I just thought he wasn't qualified. When did he first become the director of the National Counterterrorism >> Uh a year ago. A year ago, okay. He's young. I thought he was too young for a position like that. I mean, you're you're essentially the head of a of an independent agency. >> Mhm. Um And one of the things, just to

[18:55] clarify for people, by the way, I think what Whitney Webb's take on it was was that uh he she said he was a top spook. No, he was not. Okay, so he was not I don't know. >> Not in any definition of the word spook. Okay, so she she what she said on Jimmy Dore's show um I think last week or a couple days ago was that when somebody comes from the CIA or is a top spook, in her words, um and re- resigns, she thinks that she might he might be trying to garner

[19:26] public trust um in order to do some sort of a misdirection or whatever. And she used the explanation she she referenced a speech that Elizabeth Neumann gave during Trump's first presidency about um domestic terrorism and focusing on far-right uh anti-Semitic right-wing nationalists or whatever, focusing them on them for domestic

[19:58] terrorism. And I guess my best understanding of what she was saying was that he might they might be trying to use Kent to corral all those people together and trying to make it easier to target them or something. Is that what you Yeah, I don't know. >> real life. MKUltra is over. Right. >> It finished in 1975. That that kind of stuff just isn't it's just not a part of reality. Mhm. You know, I I um I'm a member of this group called uh

[20:30] VIPS, Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity. So, it's it's made up of retired CIA, FBI, NSA, some DOD um people, a lot of spies. And they researched the daylights out of this and decided to give him the Sam Adams Award for integrity and intelligence because they believe, we believe, that what we see is is what we're getting.

[21:01] >> Mhm. Yeah, that he resigned because of the because of his personal opposition to the war in Iran. He believes that the intelligence was ignored. Um he believes that the intelligence that was not ignored was given to us by the Israelis and it was false intelligence. And I say amen to that. Mhm. So, no, I don't believe that there's any kind of like behind the scenes >> Yeah. uh subterfuge. And Joe said I think on Tucker's podcast that he still

[21:33] had full access to all information before he resigned, which means that he wouldn't have been being investigated before he resigned. The investigation was much a media narrative hit or something like that that happened after. Right. And you know investigation is a word that is thrown around a [clears throat] lot inappropriately. What happens if if somebody if somebody goes on TV, let's say, and makes a revelation. Mhm. And the information may be classified or

[22:03] could be construed as classified. The CIA or ODNI, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, will file something called a crimes report with the Department of Justice. 99% of the crimes reports are ignored. Right? Only if it's something egregious or it's seen as something egregious will DOJ actually initiate a an investigation. And there's no there's no evidence that any serious

[22:34] investigation's taking place. Interesting. Yeah, it seems like it's standard operating procedure for the government against whistleblowers. They're they're they're Kremlin agent, basically, you know. It's just how they treat them all, right? >> Exactly right. And he also said, which was wild, that he was sort of shooed off the Charlie Kirk investigation cuz he thought that he >> That is wild. >> he wasn't able to do the the adequate research or analysis on whether a foreign asset He was He wasn't accusing Israel. He was very measured about that.

[23:04] >> I was just going to say that. He was not making any accusations. He was just saying that there were loose threads that he wanted to run to ground. Mhm. And he was not permitted to do that. What do you make of that? What do you think that is? >> That bothers me very very much. You know, on the one hand Candace Owens sometimes sounds like a crazy person when she says "Oh, when Charlie Kirk was killed the Egyptian Air Force was flying in this

[23:36] pattern and it coincided with I don't know who It's like what are you talking about?" The Egyptian Air Force did not kill Charlie Kirk. That just sounds crazy. That's not what Joe Kent was talking about. Joe Kent was talking about clandestinely collected information that did not easily fit into the general consensus that this kid shot Charlie Kirk. I mean, it looks like he did. But who knows? You don't know until you

[24:07] investigate. And so you want to run to ground these little isolated bits of information that people are collecting whether domestically or overseas. Mhm. And he wasn't allowed to do that. I have no idea why he wouldn't be allowed to do that. Have you ever heard of another case similar to this where people would be kicked away from the case other >> No. JFK maybe? I was just going to say even in the JFK case the information was collected. It just has never been released. >> Mhm. But it was collected.

[24:39] Yeah. And the story just came out yesterday that the bullet that hit Charlie Kirk was not the bullet from that gun that they found that the FBI said was his. >> Oh, I didn't see that. Can you find that, Steve? Daily Mail. The bullet used to kill Charlie Kirk did not match the rifle allegedly used by the suspect Tyler Robinson, new court filing claims. >> That's a court filing. A what filing? It's a court filing. It's not just some guy shouting it on the street corner. >> Zoom in?

[25:10] This was reported everywhere. Um Yep, his a defense attorney now argue that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives was unable to identify the bullet recovered at the autopsy to the rifle allegedly tied to Mr. Robinson. Wow. Now, so they didn't say it was not. >> Right. It just says they couldn't identify it. So maybe it was destroyed you know, when it ended up hitting whatever, the ground, the wall behind him, whatever it was.

[25:41] >> Yes, but either way >> Okay, either way, it it says it it's being seen as exculpatory. It could be exculpatory. Which is exactly why you need to run down these other allegations. Mhm. And um Also, none of the story makes sense. I mean, um >> it doesn't make sense. Like in the very early part of this when when the stuff that Candace was doing, like the research that she was doing and talking about, and I mean like I kind of get it from her angle. She's doing it live every single day, and she's going on again, like maybe a week later there'll

[26:12] be new stuff that will point out to what her recording a week ago was false, and she'll make it clear whatever. She's doing the best she can. But like she's right. A lot of this [ __ ] does not line up. There's a lot of stuff that does not make sense, that was not explained by the FBI properly. You know, and that's another thing, if I could interrupt you for a second. Why is the FBI involved in this? Charlie Kirk was killed in Utah by a kid from Utah who left his house in Utah

[26:43] drove to the university in Utah and allegedly shot Charlie Kirk. Nobody ever crossed a state line. There's literally nothing in this case that would make it federal. Unless there was a conspiracy. In which case it would be a federal case and the FBI would be involved. So, Kash Patel was asked this early on. And he said, "We're just offering the FBI's expertise to the Utah State Police." Like, really? Is that just what

[27:14] it is? Because offering your expertise means sticking stuff in a FedEx and sending it to Utah so they can do with it what they want. Or maybe you put one FBI, you know, lab person at their disposal. You don't have the FBI director fly out there with a with a plane load of FBI agents. It's not a federal case. I don't understand. What if you could put on your tin foil hat for a minute, what could you speculate

[27:45] that that really means? I think that it's bigger than they've told us. I think that there may be something maybe not Candace Owens, you know, Egyptian Air Force conspiracy, but maybe maybe it was a conspiracy of some sort. Maybe there are others involved. Maybe this kid was duped or tricked or recruited or something. How come we haven't heard anything from this kid yet? >> that's another thing. Why haven't we heard anything at all? Not even from his

[28:16] lawyers. Right. In my own case, the only way we could combat Justice Department leaks to the Washington Post and the New York Times was to leak our side to the Washington Post and the New York Times. But this kid's What's his name? Robinson? >> Tyler Robinson. >> Tyler Robinson. His lawyers aren't saying anything to anybody. It stinks to high hell. >> Mhm. It really does. And again, you don't want to point any fingers, but like

[28:46] why is the second he's dead Mhm. Netanyahu all over every news station? >> Yeah. We didn't do it. Talking about oh my god, he was the biggest supporter of Israel. >> loved him. We're going to put a statue of him in Tel Aviv. >> Yeah. And at the same time you have all this other information coming out that contradicts that. >> Mhm. >> [snorts] >> Which is why I worry about Tucker. Right. Right. Mhm. How much

[29:18] of the [ __ ] in this in these Epstein files have changed your view on 9/11 if at all? On 9/11, no. My my view is generally mainstream. Um I believe that the Israelis had advanced notice and that they made a strategic policy decision to not tell us. Because they they knew what the response would be. They knew we would just go out and just

[29:48] start killing everybody, which we did. We killed 2 million Muslims in the next 20 years after 9/11. Um and that was good for Israel because it led to the invasion of Iraq and the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. And remember, Saddam Hussein was an an existential threat to Israel. You know, they would come and beg us, "Please attack Iraq. Attack Iraq. Attack Iraq." >> Mhm. Yeah. >> Even with these emails like about the Shadow Commission and all the missing emails. >> very, very much.

[30:18] >> the missing tranche of emails right around 9/11. >> Yeah, it's missing. Yes, all of that bothered me very much. I mentioned the Shadow Commission on on a podcast, I don't know, few weeks ago, three, four, five weeks ago, whatever it was. And somebody wrote to me afterwards and said, "Uh the Shadow Commission is [ __ ] It was private. Nothing ever came of it. It never uh turned into anything." Well, how the [ __ ] do you know? Who are you anyway? Mhm. Reaching out to me, it's some name I don't know. I don't know how the guy got my email

[30:49] address. Mhm. But >> The email's from Ed Epstein. Glenn was talking about him. Yeah, Ed Epstein. You know about him? >> He's not related to Jeffrey Epstein. He was like at Harvard or something like that. >> I think so. >> Yeah, and he's not talking. No. Mhm. No. Another thing that bothers me very much is is the the depth with which the the Rothschilds had a relationship with Epstein. Yeah. Do they do no due diligence? I actually get it that Les Wexner

[31:19] I personally believe that Les Wexner and Jeffrey Epstein had some sort of sexual thing. Yeah. Um that's just my belief. I don't have any proof. But I get that maybe Les Wexner had a crush on him and Mhm. >> sort of, you know, seeded his career and gave him a hundred million dollars and got him started and whatever. But the Rothschilds are the Rothschilds. They've been filthy rich since the 18th century. Right. >> They do no due diligence to see that

[31:49] this guy his credentials are that he was a a seventh grade math substitute teacher? And that he never went to college? Well, there's the email that he sent to um Elie de Rothschild where he sent her some something from Harvard that Harvard professors were teaching the students that um Hitler was taken care of in like a homeless shelter that was owned by the Epsteins and the Rothschilds. >> Mhm. And then she comes back and she's like, "Oh, is that a conspiracy theory?" And he's like, "No, this is 100% true. The

[32:20] Epsteins and the Rothschilds." So it's like so it's like maybe he you know, he came from some big noble family. I've spoken to his brother. His brother's just like, you know, Joe normal guy. Yeah, I don't know. His brother seems His brother something seems off about his brother. I think the brother's been traumatized. Probably. His brother's the one that's like saying I saw his body, right? And he he's definitely dead. >> the body to the crematorium. So, would it be fake? Would would would there be a

[32:52] possibility if the brother did see a body, could his brother be fooled by a body double? >> him that. And he said, "It was my brother. I identified the body." Okay. >> Yeah. Okay. I'll give him that. But, if you are his brother and you know your brother if you know Jeffrey is still alive, wouldn't you want to just tell the public that he's really dead to protect him? Sure you would. But, also if if you're doing this in cahoots with your brother, don't you think your filthy rich billionaire brother would have at least given you a couple of

[33:22] dollars before he decided to vacate the scene? Yeah, how do we know he didn't? I mean, the feds have confiscated everything. Everything's tied up. Oh, you think there'd be there'd be proof that he gave him some money or something? >> Yeah. I don't know. It just does seem weird, you know, that the photographer was out there and ready to go. >> Mhm. And that it was, you know, the CIA in cahoots with the Bureau of Prisons, in cahoots with this one and that one. It's this big conspiracy.

[33:53] >> Mhm. But, that he's dead. Interesting. Yeah, and it's also crazy that that um Wexner and Bill Clinton in both of their their recent uh videotaped depositions are giving up the Rothschilds when they're not even asking them about the Rothschilds. >> Right. What's up with that? That's kind of wild. >> Yeah, I I interviewed uh David Boies uh a couple of weeks ago. Uh he's the the legendary criminal defense attorney. He's represented We represents Hillary Clinton right now. Um and he said something that was very

[34:24] interesting. He said that he's got this huge staff at uh Perkins Coie, I guess is the name of the firm. Um he's got this enormous staff. They went through every page of those 3 million documents. And he said, "There was no evidence of any crime having been committed by Bill Clinton or by Donald Trump." In the released files. >> Mhm. Right. So, then why not release the rest of them? >> [laughter] >> If there's no evidence of any crime, whatever happened to transparency? Let's

[34:56] just release them. You know, do we have we learned nothing from Watergate? It's always the cover-up that's worse than the crime. Yes. >> Always. Yeah. And another thing that's really disheartening about all this is that it's coming out after all these files about all these people are coming out only after the statute of

[35:28] limitations is up. >> that's I think that's the thing that makes me the angriest about this whole Epstein situation. Is that no matter how terrible the revelations become, no one will ever face justice. No one. And is the statute of limitations, do they only cover specific crimes? Yeah, there's no statute of limitations on murder. Okay. >> Um, I believe that there's no statute of limitations on terrorism

[36:00] or on the use of a weapon of mass destruction. And then somebody told me the other day that I was wrong about conspiracy, that there is no statute of limitations on conspiracy. I haven't researched it, but I think they're wrong. I think there is a statute of limitations. For most federal crimes, it's 5 years. Some it's a year, 2 years, you know, making a false statement or whatever. Failing to fill out the far a form online. >> Right. And what a coincidence that we're a just over 5 years since Epstein died.

[36:32] >> Isn't that >> And now it's all coming out. So, theoretically, now it's safe. Which is yet another reason to release the files. All right, your friends are going to be protected. They're not going to They're not going to go to prison. And if your friends are files, society needs to be protected from them. So, I'd like to know who the files are. Thank you very much. Key aspects of the conspiracy statute of limitations, uh general federal limit, the standard federal statute of limitations for conspiracy is 5 years.

[37:04] >> 5 years. Damn it. So, I was right. He was wrong. Interesting. >> [snorts] >> I I feel like Felix Felix and Billy Waugh were kind of like very similar people, you know? And I feel like the war like like just their experiences really did that to them, you know? Like I've heard the stories that Annie Jacobsen tells about Billy Waugh, like in his late 70s, going to going to the CIA trying to get them to send him back overseas. They did. I know. I heard

[37:35] >> I went with him. [laughter] That's how I met Billy. He and I did an operation together in the Middle East. We were there for months, months. You know, he would tell these stories, too. I mean, the guy's a legendary figure. He would tell these stories. He had a He had a personalized license plate on his car. He lives He lived in Niceville, Florida. And he had this license plate on his car that said 17 hits, and then it had a purple heart next to it. It was a purple heart vanity plate. And I said to him, "Billy, there's no way you have 17 Purple

[38:07] Hearts." And he said, "Oh, yes, I do." I said, "That has to be some kind of record in American history." Mhm. His His mouth was filthy. He says, "No, there's some sorry ass son of a [ __ ] in North Carolina has 18." >> [laughter] >> Yeah. and then Crazy, man. >> I I ran into him. We came back >> [laughter] >> We came back from the Middle East on September the 9th 2001. [clears throat] >> [snorts] >> And

[38:38] just on my second day back, 9/11 happened. Mhm. And so, [clears throat] you know, people are busy. You're doing stuff. You lose touch. And then I see him in the hall at the end of October. And I go, "Billy." I said, "Where you been?" And he goes like this. He looks around. He goes, "Been in Afghanistan." I said, "What are you doing in Afghanistan?" And he goes, "I've been killing people. What do you think I've been doing?" And I was like, "Oh my god, that's why

[39:09] they haven't sent me." I kept volunteering over and over and over again. I'm like, "There are 16 people in the CIA that are fluent Arabic. There are two of us in the Counterterrorism Center that are fluent Arabic, and you won't send me? Why won't you send me?" It's cuz they didn't need a translator. They weren't translating anything. They were just killing everybody. >> Mhm. Wow. Billy, he used to tell these stories. You know, he was in He was in Korea. He was in Vietnam. He was in

[39:40] Grenada. He did all this stuff, One of the first stories in Annie Jacobsen's book about Billy Waugh, Surprise Kill Vanish, which I can't [ __ ] forget, was how I think it was I don't want to [ __ ] get this wrong. I'll just say it was it was one of her sources. It may have been Billy. I don't remember it was Billy or not. >> [gasps] >> Explained to her how his first kill was using his [ __ ] serrated dagger to cut the throat of a woman in Vietnam. You know, he he told me that

[40:12] same story. >> Oh, that was Billy? Yeah. >> Okay. Um you know, told me another story and I cracked on him. We were we were we were driving. We were in the car at one point for hours. God, he used to play this uh Who is this piano player in the like late '60s, early '70s? It was like like Liberace kind of music. It would drive me crazy. Anyway, um So, hours. So, just to get him to shut the piano off, I I would turn it down.

[40:44] Hey Billy, let me ask you about Vietnam, right? And then once he starts talking, there's no stopping him. One of the princes came up to me and he says you're friendly with Billy. And I said, "Yeah, I'm friendly with Billy." He says, "Please, please tell him no more F-word and please never never GD." And I was like, "I I'm I'm sorry. He's got a filthy mouth. That Nothing's going to stop him now. He's almost 80 years old." Anyway, [snorts] he he used to tell these stories over

[41:14] and over and over and they would always get a little bit more exciting with each telling. And then finally he was telling me about his Silver Star. He got shot down behind enemy lines in Vietnam. >> Mhm. And the pilot was killed. Right. Right? So, he just starts the trek south. He's trying to get to the front line so he can slip across at night. >> And his I remember the story, his leg was like riddled with bullets, shredded. >> And he's walking. He walked like 25 miles. But then, like the third or

[41:44] fourth time he told me the story, he he comes up upon this this uh cow or ox or whatever it was in a rice paddy and he had a knife and he cut the the cow's leg so he could cut an artery and he's drinking the blood to get nourishment. And I was like, I go, "That was a scene from Apocalypse Now. You didn't do that." And he starts laughing, he goes, "Well, I I did all kinds of [ __ ] that WAS LIKE THAT."

[42:14] >> [laughter] >> BILLY, OH MY GOD. Never had kids. Yeah, never had kids, yeah. Yeah, he the the government was his life. The military was his life. >> After that first I read in that first deployment in Andy's book, he said after that first deployment when he got his leg shot up and he came out they got that's what gave him his first purple heart and he had to have surgery on it and he was like they said you're disabled now. You're congratulations you're disabled. Like you're good. Yeah, he freaking like hitchhiked across the

[42:45] country again and got like tried to like lie to them and tell them I'm good I can sprint I'm full speed send me back out there. He meant it. Yeah, he wanted it. I went to me and Steven went to [clears throat] a museum in South Florida in Miami. One of the only interviews we've ever done where we've traveled. Wow. >> To Felix Rodriguez. >> You did not. You interviewed Felix Rodriguez? >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> What was that like? So we the the craziest part of honestly the

[43:16] one of the things that freaked me out the most was the day before we went down there I had Danny Sheehan on the podcast talking about the whole Kennedy assassination plot and about all the Bay of Pigs Cubans the anti-Castro Cubans who were involved in that. >> Yeah. And I go, "Huh, I'm going to Miami tomorrow interview a guy named Felix Rodriguez. What do you know about Felix Rodriguez?" And he goes, "I deposed Felix Rodriguez." >> Oh my god. >> "He was on the [ __ ] team that killed the president." This is what Danny I didn't know [ __ ] I mean this is what what Danny Sheehan's telling me, you know, legendary Harvard lawyer who

[43:47] defended, you know, all these people was a part of the the Watergate thing and and um He's a giant. >> Oh, yeah. So we go down there we get to the museum and it's like this old museum of all about you know, all about the Cuban history and the Bay of Pigs and we walk into the one office while we're waiting for Felix, and one of his buddies, his war buddies, was there, and he was showing me his book, and it was a picture of Kennedy's face

[44:17] with a [ __ ] bull's-eye on it. And he had like pictures of Kennedy on the wall with like [ __ ] bull's-eyes on his head and [ __ ] like like [ __ ] slashes through his face and stuff. They all hated Kennedy. >> Yeah, they did. They hated Kennedy. Every one of them. There's I'm sorry to say there's a Greek American, George Joannides, um who was a He was the chief of Miami station at the time. And there are a lot of fingers that point right at George, too, as having been involved. >> One of the crazy things that I I took

[44:49] away from from Felix was that like he when he got into the I mean, the first thing he did was Vietnam, I think. He was in the Vietnam War. >> Didn't he also kill Che Guevara? Yeah. Yeah, he told that story. That's crazy. >> kept his fingers as a souvenir. He had denied that. I asked him. I thought I asked him like, "I heard you kept his Rolex." He's like, "No, no, no, no. Never kept his Rolex." >> heard that, too. And uh you know, he was in the Vietnam War like mowing down civilians and [ __ ] Mhm. And

[45:21] mowing down people from helicopters, like the same [ __ ] that Billy Wah was doing. Like him and Billy Wah, like when you're that young and you're just [ __ ] slaughtering people, >> Yeah. mass murder >> what does that do to your psyche? >> Mhm. And um you you know, the other day I had Glenn Greenwald in here, and he was saying that uh he thinks Tucker could win the presidency. I'm going to speak with Tucker in in a couple of weeks, Mhm. and I'm

[45:51] going to I'm going to tell him, "Look, I It's none of my business to tell you what to do or not to do, but if you run for president, I am all in." Mhm. 100%. Glenn says that he talks to him in private about it and like Tucker just brushes it off and laughs at it. He's like, "No, no, >> time I talked to him, he brushed it off and I said, "I'm serious." He said, "I'm not interested." He could win. Yeah, but Yes, he does he need some beefy security. You know, he lives out in the sticks. He lives a couple of He's a house a couple hours from here. Oh, does he? >> Yeah.

[46:21] >> [clears throat] >> Um I I went up to Maine last time I saw him and he lives out in the sticks and I'm like, "Buddy, I said, you need security out here." And he's like, "Nah, not out here." Really? >> Yeah. In fact, I'll tell you a funny thing. He was a half an hour late for for our podcast >> Mhm. because he was fly fishing. He's an avid fly fisher, accomplished fly fisher. Fly fisher and then when he pulled his his reel in to, you know, walk back to the car and come to the podcast, there was a moose standing there.

[46:51] >> [laughter] >> And he said, What a great excuse. >> He said that they [clears throat] can be dangerous. They weigh 1,000 lbs, right? Oh, yeah. And their spindly legs, they'll they'll jump up and, you know, hit you. >> dangerous. >> So, he said he just had a a face-off with the moose. He just stood there for half an hour and the moose is looking at him and he's looking at the moose and then finally it just walks away. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. What a great story for being 20 30 minutes late. >> [laughter] >> Better than my excuse, right? No, he um it's just crazy, man. It It's just I was talking to Glenn about this. It was I'm

[47:22] like I'm I'm kind of stunned how fearless he is. He is utterly fearless and I'll tell you, I know a lot of really smart people. Mhm. He might be the most brilliant person that I've ever encountered. He's certainly the most well-informed person I've ever encountered. And another thing, too, in addition to just being a sweet guy, he's a genuinely good guy. Um what you see is what you get with him. The way he appears on camera, that's Tucker.

[47:52] He's a genuinely nice guy. He loves the country. He's very um devout in his faith. He loves his family. And I think he would be an inspired leader. I don't I'm conflicted on that because then we would lose the voice. >> Yeah, that's the only thing. That's the only thing. >> Can't be both. >> Yeah. That's right. >> I'm afraid that you it takes a certain type of person to really be a politician or a president, you know. And you know,

[48:23] I wondered too if he would be necessarily comfortable in today's Republican Party or if he would have to run as an independent. >> Mhm. Or make his own party. You know, back you and I talked about this years ago. Back in 2016 I traveled to 12 states with Governor Gary Johnson, the Libertarian nominee for president in 2012 and 2016. I consider myself to be a libertarian.

[48:53] And um And there was such upheaval in the campaign not the Libertarian campaign, but the the presidential campaign that year. Donald Trump had the Republican nomination, Hillary had the had the Democratic nomination and um this guy from the agency, I forget his name. He was running as an independent. I forget his name. Um And so the polls were just in this weird state of flux to the point where we really believed that Gary was

[49:25] competitive in both Utah and New Mexico. We ended up doing well in Utah. We got like, I don't know, 18% or 16% and he ended up getting a higher percentage of the vote 3% higher than any libertarian ever has gotten since the creation of the Libertarian Party. And I mentioned to him one time, you know, this is something we can really grow on. And he said, "No,

[49:55] it's a it's a fluke." And I said, "What makes you say that?" He said, "Because unlike the Democrats and the Republicans, we don't have a patron. We don't have a billionaire who can just dump a hundred million dollars in the campaign." There was a guy who was a donor to the campaign. I never learned his name. He was only described to me as the canned tomato king of California. That's where he made his money, canned tomatoes. And he um he donated he he donated money for us to buy a used Winnebago that we drove around all these states,

[50:27] you know, in to go from campaign event to campaign [laughter] event. The only place we flew is to Alaska cuz it was too far to drive. But um Yeah, that's the problem with it. >> But he was he was right. You know, the Libertarians went right back down to one, one and a half percent, and that was kind of the end of it. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how you get rid of I I don't know how you fix that unless you just demolish the whole thing and build it from the ground up. >> That's it. That's it. But I can't help but to think that there are enough people frustrated with the two-party

[50:58] system that with the right leadership a third party might be attractive. Although, part of the problem is this this ongoing debate over whether or not you start at the grassroots and run people for the local water board and the city council and the school board and then work your way up to the point where you nominate a presidential nominee. Oh, interesting. >> Or if you get a big name like Ross Perot and you create this

[51:29] party around him and then work down from there. Huh. That hasn't worked. But then the Libertarians, I was on the Libertarian Party mailing list for years and I'd get these breathless emails like, "Oh my god, we just had a Libertarian elected trash commissioner of Green Bay, Minnesota of Green Bay, Wisconsin. Congratulations. I'm like, you guys, what are you doing? Mhm. Trash commissioner of Green Bay. I I went to the Libertarian Christmas

[51:59] party in Well, I mean, being Libertarians, of course, they couldn't get their act together. So, it was in the middle of January, right? Seriously. It's in Alexandria, Virginia. We all have these name tags. Hello, my name is, right? I wrote John Kiriakou. And this guy walks up to me and he's looking at my name tag and he goes, "Oh, John Kiriakou, I'm so glad I ran into you. I'm so-and-so. I'm the head of the Libertarian Party for Virginia." I said, "Oh, nice to meet you." Shook his hand. And he says, "Listen, would you be willing to run for

[52:30] governor?" I said, "Absolutely not." Just like that. He said, "Really? Why not?" I said, "Listen, I like you guys. You're all really nice guys, but you can't even get your act together to to schedule a Christmas party before Christmas. And I know it's going to happen. I'll say yes, I'll run for governor. Everybody will abandon me. I'm not going to raise any money. I'll end up being out of pocket for everything, including my own travel around the state. And then I'll get 1%

[53:01] and make an idiot of myself." Right. And he's like, "Well, fair enough." Yeah. Yeah, I don't know I don't know if that would be a good idea for Tucker to run. I mean, in theory, it's a good idea, but I don't know. See, I think I'd rather have the media voice that's pushing back against power, I think. Yeah. You know, I don't know. >> He's very, very effective and has millions of followers. People like him, they trust him, they understand his analysis. He doesn't speak down to people. >> [snorts] >> Like the average American, I think, can

[53:32] connect with him. I have a lot of dear friends who always question my friendship with him. Mhm. And I was like, you know, first of all, I never, ever judge anybody on their politics. Never. If you and I frankly I mean you and I have known each other for years now. I've learned all my politics from you, John. >> [laughter] >> I was going to say I don't have any idea what your politics are because we've never really talked about it. >> I've formed my idea of ideas from listening to you. I mean that's that's how I [ __ ] you know learn about all this [ __ ] >> were kidding. Thank you very much. That's very nice. Thank you.

[54:03] So you and I are friends first. If we agree on political issues, ah that's great. If we don't agree, I don't care. We're still friends. I like you. I have I have this core of of friends, my best friends from high school. We're we're all in each other's weddings and we're godfather to each other's kids. It was five of us all together. One has passed away now, but but two Democrats, two Republicans and an independent. Yeah. But it never mattered cuz we never talked about

[54:33] politics or when we did we'd kid each other. So um with with Tucker he's so truly independent that even my friends who questioned my friendship with him have told me recently now we've really come around on Tucker. Mhm. Yeah. He's a he's a truth-teller. If you enjoy watching our show on Spotify or YouTube and you want to be more involved, I encourage you to please come check out our Patreon community. Not only does our Patreon community get every episode you see on YouTube early, fully uncensored

[55:03] and ad-free, but we're also doing Patreon exclusive episodes as well as live Q&A's and you can get your personal questions answered by our guests every single week. For me, being able to collaborate and communicate back and forth with our Patreon community every week has been huge and this is my way of saying thank you for the cost of a cup of coffee a month. Now back to the show.
