Title: LIVE: Former CIA Officer John Kiriakou on Venezuela, 9/11
Show: Lee Camp — Unredacted Tonight
Date: 2026-01-05
URL: https://youtu.be/ZO0GpNURRRk
Duration: 1:19:00

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[08:50] >> Hello everybody. Welcome to Dangerous Ideas. Thanks for being here. Uh just a few days after the United States has invaded, bombed a sovereign country, kidnapped their leader, and taken him to New York to put into prison. Uh the the United States the US empire yet again proving there is no international law that they won't break, that they care about, that they care to respect.

[09:20] Uh we see it again and again, although it's seems to keep ramping up to a new level. I did a extended live stream on this uh the day or hours after it happened on Saturday. So, uh feel free to check out that one as well, but I want to get into it with my guest, uh a pretty great guest for this topic, but we're going to get into a lot more than just Venezuela. Uh but I have known John Kiriakou for many years now. Uh former CIA officer. He is the only

[09:52] American to serve time in prison for the CIA's illegal under international law torture program because he revealed it to the world. And so therefore, he was the only one to spend time in prison for it. Please welcome John Kiriakou. Hey, buddy. Good to see you. Good to see you. Hey, John. How are you? I'm well, thanks. And you? I'm I'm better than a lot of people around this world right now. So, uh this I I mean, it's tough to imagine

[10:24] that the Trump administration can shock people anymore, but I I found this the the brazenness of this and everything shocking uh this past weekend. Uh yeah, I just kind of want I I guess just initially your your initial thoughts, but I also was was remembering that uh you and I were both we both were speakers at the Venezuelan Embassy when they were in Washington D.C. They were just beginning. They don't like to call it an occupation and a holding of space in the Venezuelan Embassy

[10:56] uh when the the first Trump administration was going to steal the Embassy. And before it was locked down, they had a bunch of speakers. And uh you spoke about how the CIA decides and uh and and comes up with plans for cooing other countries. So, I thought that your initial thoughts on Venezuela might dovetail well with that. Oh my god, I have so much to say. I don't I don't even know where to begin. First of all, I still have the

[11:27] Venezuelan government [ __ ] in my house. Remember when we finished speaking, we all took stuff with us for safekeeping. Yeah. Back to the to the Venezuelans when they got their embassy back, I still have their stuff. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, cuz they cuz they wanted those who were they we'd been you know, activists and others had been invited to hold that space. So, they wanted people to protect >> Yeah, they asked us to take it. So, yeah, the one thing that sticks in my mind from that night more than anything

[11:58] um was when I walked out of the embassy. You remember there were there were several half a dozen or so of of us who stayed in the embassy. I went home. You went home. >> Yeah, I I didn't stay either, yeah. Um but there were several who stayed in until they were finally arrested and thrown out. But, um when I left the embassy that night, there was a large crowd in front of it. And there were several uniformed Secret Service agents that were in the crowd. And as I was passing two of them,

[12:31] one of them said to the other, "So, who are the good guys and who are the bad guys?" And then the other one said, "The ones out here are with us. The ones in the building are with Putin." Right. Of course. >> I said, "Oh, you can't be serious." And then I thought, "No, you know what? It's not even worth the conversation." And I just walked the rest of the way home. Yeah, the the ones in the building were also with international law. Yeah, exactly. So, getting to your to your

[13:01] point, there are several things that that strike me in an in on an immediate basis. Um this was very much a CIA coup. Very much. We knew, thanks to reporting in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, that as long ago as August, the CIA was actively trying to recruit somebody inside Maduro's inner circle. We know that because his pilot, his personal pilot came out and said, "Hey, the CIA tried

[13:32] to recruit me. They offered me $50 million, and and what they wanted was whenever President Maduro got on the plane, like maybe to run to Cuba or somewhere else, to instead land the plane in Key West so the FBI could grab him, and they wouldn't have to, you know, invade and snatch him out of his bed and take him to New York. Right. That this guy would just deliver him. And he refused and he went public with the information. Number one. Number two, the New York Times reported over the weekend

[14:03] that the CIA had a source in Maduro's inner circle who apparently took the $50 million. And Mhm. And that's how they knew that Maduro was asleep in his bed. Yeah, cuz he had been he'd been changing sleeping locations, so they had to have someone inside. Yeah. >> They had somebody inside. I would go further and say that the CIA most likely also recruited multiple senior military officials Mhm. because there was no resistance. None.

[14:35] We barely bombed the country. What what we bombed it resulted I'm not making light of it. It was 80 people dead Yeah. so far including at least 35 Cubans. So this is terrible terrible thing. But it wasn't a full-scale invasion where we had 100,000 troops and we killed 5,000 people in the first night. That wasn't it at all. It wasn't even uh Panama which killed a thousand people. >> Wasn't even Panama and I've talked about Panama a couple of times today to make that uh that distinction. But you can't just send a group of guys

[15:08] into a country in the middle of the night in a helicopter, grab the president and the first lady out of their beds without the military being in on it. And so my guess is that these these bombings we saw of centrally located Venezuelan military bases, those bombings were probably more for show than anything else. The administration, I'm sure, is very happy to kill Cubans, by the way.

[15:40] Um, did you Did you know that we we bombed Hugo Chavez's tomb and destroyed it? I didn't know that. Yeah. That was just mean. That was just done just to put it in their faces. That's crazy. >> Um, but but the whole operation, the fact that there were no US casualties, in and out, mission accomplished, grab the guy and the first lady, that tells me that there were a whole bunch of people on the CIA payroll, including senior military officials.

[16:12] So, does that give you you know, there's a lot of discussion now as to who is or will be in charge of Venezuela? Trump has, I might play the clip in a bit, but Trump has publicly said, "We're in charge." Then that was kind of walked back a little bit or the US is in charge. The Vice President has now taken the oath of office, Delcy Rodriguez, but but she has said that Maduro's still the president. Does this make you, considering you think there were a lot more in on it, does this make you think the military is

[16:43] not going to side with the Vice President? I'm wondering if the Vice President's in on it. Because 48 hours ago, she was ready to lay down her life. And today, she said, "Well, let's let's have a dialogue. We can come to some kind of agreement." It's like, where'd that come from? Agreement? We just kidnapped your president. And you want to have a dialogue? No. Number one. Um, number two, there will not be a US

[17:15] invasion and or occupation of Venezuela simply because Venezuela is the size of Germany, France, and Austria combined. And most of it is jungle. It's not possible to occupy Venezuela. So, yeah, what I'm perhaps fear most is that is that a lot of the ruling elite in the United States or the Trump administration might be fine with you know, these some of these horrific scenarios like Libya where it's like,

[17:47] yeah, the people are you know, horror show. I mean, open air slave markets and warlords and but the oil rights are fine. Like Yeah, and that's why I think this is far bigger than just Maduro or just, you know, the the Monroe Doctrine or whatever. This is about China and Iran in in my view. And and let me explain. Venezuela has the largest proven oil reserves on the planet.

[18:18] 300 billion barrels of oil. It'll take centuries to lift it all. The problem is it's the dirtiest oil in the world. It's the highest sulfur content of anybody's proven reserves. And so, you have to have very specialized refineries in order to clean that oil and even with the injection of heavy chemicals, it's generally not oil that you would turn into gasoline. It's mostly for home heating

[18:50] requirements, right? So, until 2017, where were the only refineries on Earth that could clean Venezuelan oil? They were in Houston, Texas. Mhm. And in 2017, the first Trump administration effectively shut down the Venezuelan oil industry. And we mothballed those those refineries, but the world didn't just screech to a halt. China and India immediately built their own refineries

[19:21] to handle Venezuela's dirty oil, but the Chinese did it right. The Chinese built a refinery in China, but they also built one in the Caribbean. The Indians built one in India, and they've been shipping Venezuelan oil to India to refine it there. The The Chinese were ready to do it right there in the Caribbean. The refinery is built, but it hasn't yet been opened. Well, now they don't need a refinery. Because whatever oil Venezuela lifts is going to

[19:51] come to the United States. We don't have to occupy the oil fields in order to control Venezuela's oil or to control the economy. We just have to insist with a very stern look and a pointing finger that oil comes to the United States. So, why did I bring up Iran in this? First of all, this was a big [ __ ] you to the Chinese. But secondly, virtually the only leverage that Iran has in international

[20:22] affairs today is the ability to close off the Strait of Hormuz. Right? Something like 60% of the world's oil flows out of the Persian Gulf through the Strait of Hormuz. It's only about 16 mi across, and it's it's That's not true. The Bab el-Mandeb is It's even closer than that. It's more like like 4 mi across. So, it's easy to block the Strait of Hormuz. So, in the event of, you know, something terrible happening,

[20:53] if the Iranians needed to do something to pressure Western economies, and especially the US economy, closing the Strait of Hormuz, presumably with Russian and/or Chinese consent, would be the only thing that they have to do. Well, now we don't need Iranian oil. We have all the Venezuelan oil we we could use for the next 500 years. Mhm. So, it further weakens Iran. How much does it weaken Iran? I'm not sure yet. Does it weaken Iran to the

[21:23] point where the Israelis are going to feel free to go back in and attack Iran again? That's what I'm afraid of. Benjamin Netanyahu was just at Mar-a-Lago over the holiday. What was that conversation about? We don't know. I would venture to say it was about Venezuela and Iran. So, that's what I'm worried about today. Yeah, that's that's uh interesting. And and yeah, I mean for anyone who still buys any of the administration excuses about this being about drugs or anything else is just

[21:54] laughable. I mean, how gullible can you be? This is absolutely about oil and resources. Uh and of course, Trump has even said that at times talking about we we're going to get our oil back and things like that. Um does does this uh worry you at all that the that the US seem there there seems to be no international law that matters anymore to the United States? Or am I kind of being naive in thinking there ever was? I mean, there were obviously endless number of assassinations and

[22:26] other things going on decades ago. So, uh is this anything new? No, not really. Uh to tell you the truth, it started in 1985 with the assassination with the execution of DEA agent in Mexico named Kiki Camarena. Kiki Camarena was a highly regarded DEA agent. He was stationed in Guadalajara. He was working against something that at the time was called called the Guadalajara Cartel. And uh he was outed as a DEA officer.

[22:59] And so, he was kidnapped. He was held for 30 days, tortured mercilessly, and then they drove a piece of rebar through the top of his head. That's how they killed him, and then dumped his body um in a plastic bag on the side of the road. Ronald Reagan demanded in the aftermath of the Kiki Camarena execution that Congress pass a law authorizing the United States to cross borders with force to bring people to justice who have violated US law. It had never been done

[23:31] before. Um and so Congress passed that law in 1985. We sent special forces across the border into Mexico, and we kidnapped the cartel members who had tortured and executed Kiki Camarena, including the doctor who treated him so that he remained alive to be tortured more. The doctor actually won at trial. He was found not guilty. Everybody else was convicted at trial and sentenced to life

[24:01] without parole. So that law has been on the books since 1985. I'm old enough to remember that when we invaded Panama in 1989 to snatch President Manuel Noriega, we used the Kiki Camarena law to justify it. And so when the the Soviets said something at the UN Security Council, we said, "Ah, you can't say anything. This is uh legal by US uh by US law." In fact, during the

[24:34] Camarena case or after the Camarena case, the Mexicans who were convicted appealed all the way to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court ruled that the law was in fact had been legally passed. And so we can cross borders. That's the same law that the that the Trump administration this weekend relied on saying, "Look, he was indicted in New York for crimes against Americans, so it was perfectly legal for [snorts] us to send in this team of,

[25:06] you know, executioners or whatever they were to kill 80 people who had nothing to do with anything, bomb Hugo Chavez's grave, and and bring Maduro back to the United States. It's strikingly repulsive. I I can't help but think it also shows the desperation of the US empire, the fact that we are resorting to these tactics because the the writing on the wall economically is that China's on the rise and the US is fading and waning and

[25:39] uh and so it seems to to me it reeks of desperation. You you're running into other countries and simply black bagging their leaders because you're nervous about where this global >> [laughter] >> you know, economics is going. Yeah, I think you're I think you're exactly right. In great part, that's that's what this was about. You know, we've been hearing for the last 2 years, for example, that the BRICS countries are talking about, and it would probably take 20 years, but talking about a unified currency. We don't want any unified currency. We

[26:10] want all oil sales to be in dollars, like they always have been. >> Thank you. A unified currency would crash the economy because it would make US Treasury bills unattractive to foreign investors like the government of China. Thank you for Thank you for saying that because I am I've been so frustrated that I am yelling at the top of my lungs about the petrodollar and uh and even independent media, it seems so many of them either don't know or don't care uh that our dollar is basically

[26:41] unlike most countries, we can print as much as we want as long as it's the the how fossil fuels are sold and it remains the reserve currency, but it only remains the reserve currency as long as the petrodollar is strong. >> Yeah. That's right. Yeah, and you know, Trump took a real risk here. But the risk has passed. The risk was, say within the first 24 or 48 hours after we snatched him, what would the Chinese and Russian reactions be? Would the Chinese send their

[27:13] aircraft carrier? They have one, one aircraft carrier. Would they divert it to make the ocean crossing and come to the Caribbean at least as a as a show of support for their friends and allies in Venezuela? No. They just said, "Geez, uh that's unfortunate. That uh you know, the Americans probably shouldn't have done that." And that was it. Did the Did the Russians attack uh uh Volodymyr Zelensky? >> John has frozen for me. Oh, [ __ ] >> Uh let let me know folks if that's what

[27:45] you're seeing as well. Oh, wait. Nope. Okay. You're back for me. Oh, it never froze for me. I wonder what that was all about. Like you never froze even. >> I yeah, I wonder if it was me freezing, but it looked to me like you were freezing. Anyway. >> I don't know. So um the the Chinese reaction has been nil, and the Russian reaction, the Russians just said, "Yeah, it's uh yeah, we we disagree with that." And then that's it. So if if there was going to be any serious superpower pushback, the time for that

[28:15] is come and gone. Do you Speaking of that, I was wondering, do you feel the bombing of the fishermen besides creating this kind of ridiculous, "Oh, we're fighting drugs" uh dynamic or propaganda, do you think that also was a basically a test balloon to see like can we just blatantly bomb fishermen and there'll be no response from Russia or China? Or Congress? Or Congress. Yes. I think that's exactly what it was. Because this was clearly a war crime. Right? It's There's no

[28:47] no debate. This was a war crime and nobody cared. And so if if Americans don't care and the Russians and the Chinese are not running to the UN Security Council or or better yet to the General Assembly where they would actually win a vote, then just do whatever you want. Nobody's going to stop you. Yeah, it's unbelievable. Well, when I to shift topics for a second, when I first >> [laughter] >> wanted to book you, it actually was not about Venezuela, but

[29:17] you're great for this topic. But I wanted to ask you you you were featured heavily on Tucker Carlson's many-part docu-series on 9/11 and I'm sure it was seen by countless millions of people and I was just wondering if you could you know in these last 10 minutes but you don't have to fill the 10 minutes, but to to give kind of some of the things that you discussed in that in that series about what kind of Americans

[29:47] still don't seem to know about 9/11. Oh, there's a lot that we don't know. And you know, Tucker's the first person to really mainstream it. Until really until this this documentary series came out, it was mostly people sort of on the edges of the issue on the on the fringes of the conversation who were talking about and listen, I'm guilty of mocking these people. I I I admit it. I've mocked them for

[30:17] years because I can't even tell you how many people have told me the space aliens did it. Seriously, the lizard people did [laughter] it. The Saudi royal family did it. The Jews did it. I mean it was 100 different people did it. Like no, Al-Qaeda did it. Now, we can get into the details of Al-Qaeda doing it. Like, for example, could the Israelis have stopped it? I've always been of the belief that yes, the

[30:48] Israelis could have stopped it and elected not to. Why? Because they knew that if we were hit in the United States, if thousands of Americans were killed, we would go out there and kill as many Muslims as we possibly could. And that's what we did. We killed 2 million people over the next 20 years. Um when we talk about the the 9/11 Commission, like, do Americans know that the 9/11 Commission was not permitted to speak

[31:20] with any active-duty CIA officers? Does Do Americans know that the 9/11 Commission was not permitted to interview a single Guantanamo detainee? So, no Al-Qaeda fighters or leaders were ever interviewed. And we know that the at minimum, both the FBI and CIA had uh had connection and informants Yeah. within these

[31:51] uh hijackers. Yeah, the problem there was and I'm I'm an evangelist on this issue. The problem there was the CIA knew that the hijackers were in San Diego, but didn't want to tell the FBI because the FBI has primacy in the United States, the CIA has primacy overseas, and the CIA wanted to try to recruit them >> [clears throat] >> as reporting agents inside Al-Qaeda. If If the CIA had told the FBI they were

[32:21] on US soil, the FBI would have gotten the recruitment. Number one. So, it was a it was a bureaucratic pissing match. On the other hand, the FBI knew that 9/11 was being planned but didn't want to tell the CIA because the FBI wanted to make the recruitments. They were looking overseas for the hijackers like we can't find them. We're looking all over overseas because they

[32:51] were here. Did you know that until 2009 the CIA and FBI computer systems were not compatible? That's another part of the fallout from 9/11. So, when I was overseas even post-9/11 if I had a walk-in, a sensitive walk-in, or I met with a a recruited source, or I had actionable intelligence, I would sit at my computer, I would send it to the

[33:21] operational division at the CIA, the Counterterrorism Center at the CIA, five different, six different units that the CIA needed to see it, but I would also send the cable to the State Department, to the Pentagon, to the White House, the NSC, this guy, that guy, the other guy. I literally couldn't send it to the FBI because the FBI's computer system was incompatible. And they did that on purpose. Because the CIA doesn't want the FBI to know its business and vice versa.

[33:54] And a lot a lot of the cover-up like the 28 redacted pages and stuff had to do with Saudi Arabia. >> Saudi Arabia, specifically the Saudi government. You know, when when we captured Abu Zubaydah we also confiscated his diary. I I use the word diary loosely. It was it was more than a diary. I mean, some of it was a diary. Some of it was a doodle book, or he would write poetry, or he would write these one-act plays. He was quite an accomplished artist. Very, very good sketcher, seriously. >> Okay. And um

[34:26] I'm leafing through this thing while he was still unconscious. And um and he's got the cell phone numbers of three Saudi princes. So, I sent a cable to headquarters. I said, "Be advised. We we confiscated this doodle book or I That's what I called it. I called it a doodle book. The FBI called it a diary and that's what it became known as. But, it's got these three cell phone numbers and they're all They all belong to Saudi princes. One was a

[34:57] minor prince from an offshoot of the royal family called the Saud al Kabir branch. Anyway, we went to we went to the Saudis and we said, "Look, we're going to start killing people and some of them are going to be named Al Saud if you don't clean up your act." Next thing you know, we told the Saudis in that same conversation, "We We want these three princes." The next thing you know, one of them

[35:27] undergoes [clears throat] bariatric surgery and dies on the operating table. One is killed in a one-car crash on the Riyadh to Jeddah highway. And one of them goes camping in the desert and dies of thirst. And they said, "You know, we were going to turn them over to you guys, but they died. So, it's just not possible." Jesus. Uh in this last couple of minutes, another another topic shift. You since

[35:59] you were forced into prison for revealing the And actually, I think the first time I ever met you was your uh My going away party. >> away party to prison. [laughter] Turned by Code Pink, I think. Yeah, it was. The You you've uh spoken out for uh prison reform and uh I wonder if you could just if you could snap your fingers and uh change things about our horrific prison system, what would be some of the things at the top of your list? >> [sighs]

[36:30] >> If you can't just replace the entire leadership of the Bureau of Prisons with, you know, somebody from Denmark or Norway, which is not likely to happen. >> [laughter] >> The two things that you have to focus on immediately are medical care and food. One of the very first things that I saw when I went to prison. On my very first full day, I I reported on a Thursday. On Friday, Friday was fish day. And one of the one of the Italians across the hall from me said, um, "Friday, it's fish day." And I said,

[37:01] "Oh, good. I like fish." And he says, "Oh, buddy, no. You're not going to want to eat this fish. We call it sewer trout." And I said, "Oh, okay. I'll skip it." So, I went down to the cafeteria and they had these boxes stacked up behind the chow line. And and the boxes say, I wrote about this at the time, contemporaneously. The The boxes say, "Alaskan cod, product of China, feed use only, not for human

[37:32] consumption." And they're slopping it onto trays. And that was some of the better food that we had. So, yeah. That and then there there For all intents and purposes, there is no medical care. If you've got a problem, a medical problem in prison, you're going to die. That's it. I cracked a I cracked cracked a a crown. And so, I went to the dentist, the prison dentist, and he said, uh, "Listen, buddy." He says, "I'm going to do you a favor because I know you." He

[38:04] He knew my case. And I wasn't in there but for 23 months. He said, "I'm going to put you a temporary crown. It should last until you go home and you can get a dentist to fix it for you." He said, "My only job here is no matter what reason people come to the dentist for, I just pulled a tooth. That's it. That's the dental care. Medical care is, yeah, good luck. Here's some Tylenol. We wish you the best. So, food and medical have to change immediately.

[38:36] Yeah, it's it's a horror show and it's because the the prisoners have no political power. No one cares about them. No one in Congress cares to speak up for them. And people seem to forget we are the largest prison state in the world. In the world. Yeah. >> In fact, you know, everybody probably knows the statistic by now. We have 5% of the world's population. We have 25% of the world's prison population. It's unacceptable. Yeah. Thank you, John, so much. I don't want

[39:07] to use up all your time. I really appreciate you coming on and I know you've you've been putting out a lot of content. Where can people follow your work? Oh, thank you. It's all on Substack. I've got three podcasts going right now. Two are on YouTube, one's on It's on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. But, the best place to go is either johnkiriakou.com or on Substack, John Kiriakou. Thanks again, John. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye.

[39:37] John Kiriakou, thank you so much for joining the show. Thank you everybody who's here. I got plenty more for you, so don't don't turn off yet. We're going to talk more about Venezuela. Thank you, VC Nick, for supporting the show, as well. I want to show this clip of Donald Trump saying we are now going to be running Venezuela. I don't know how he thinks he's going to do that or what the [ __ ] this he is

[40:07] envisioning. But, let's just share this clip of our uh We're going to run the country until Sorry. Our psychopath-in-chief. Until such time we're going to run the country until such time as we can do a safe, proper, and judicious transition. So, As if the United States has ever done anything safe, proper, and judicious, but especially right now. Um, safe and proper? You just violated

[40:39] all international law, invaded a country, killed 80 people, bombed it, and kidnapped their president. Is that safe and proper? We don't want to be involved with uh, having somebody else get in and we have the same situation that we had for the last long period of years. So, we are going to run the country until such time as we can do a safe, proper, and judicious transition. And it has to be judicious.

[41:11] I like [laughter] how he repeated that part cuz he didn't say judicious correctly the first. Safe, proper, and judicious. I mean, not that he's declining mentally at all. Of course not. Cuz that's what we're all about. We want peace, liberty, and justice for the great people of Venezuela. He cares. >> includes He cares a lot about the people. Everyone should know that. That's what Trump cares about, uh, the people. It's many from Venezuela that are now living in the United States

[41:42] and want to go back to their country. It's their homeland. We can't take a chance that somebody else takes over Venezuela that doesn't have the good of the Venezuelan people in mind. Of course, what does he really mean there? We can't take a chance that someone else in the Bolivarian revolution takes over Venezuela, runs Venezuela, uh, that of course the the vice president has now taken the oath of office to run Venezuela,

[42:12] uh, that you know, unless she's been compromised or sold out or something, she is still part of the Bolivarian revolution. Many are pointing to her her first comments about the invasion was very harsh and critical and then she tweeted something later that said like we want to work with the United States. Maybe had started to fear that a drone may land on her head soon. And what Trump's talking about here is he's saying we can't take the risk that

[42:44] you know, Venezuela is represented by the people that Venezuelans want to represent them. As many of you know, Maduro has won elections that are far more legitimate than anything we do in the United States. That So if you're talking about illegitimate elections, well, the United States is way up higher on that list than Venezuela. But with their their also Trump and his and his gang of mafiosos are also afraid

[43:14] that the same thing could have happened that happened the first time when they cooed Chavez in 2002. They they facilitated and aided a military coup against Chavez. That he was kidnapped, he was taken to a military base where he says he was almost executed. But that military base was still within Venezuela. So certain people that were in the military, a lot of them were still allied with Chavez and because Venezuela still had control of the situation, they put Chavez back into office when when

[43:44] the people of Venezuela stood up. Trump and his goons didn't want the same thing to happen. So rather than allow the Venezuelan military, you know, perhaps factors in the Venezuelan Venezuelan military that are you know, allegiant to the right wing or to the US invasion, allow allow them to do it. The US did it themselves and kidnapped Maduro all the way to dragging him all the way to New York and putting him in prison there cuz they didn't want the same thing to happen.

[44:17] Uh so it's it's unclear on honestly what what will happen now in Venezuela. Uh I think that there is a lot of evidence that the people are standing up for their sovereignty. There are people in the streets. Uh the mainstream media don't want to show you the thousands upon thousands of Venezuelans. Some of them or maybe many of them didn't even vote for Maduro. They just know that they don't want a US invasion. They just know they want their sovereignty. They just want to they have their [ __ ] own country without

[44:48] other countries coming in and just kidnapping their president. Uh yeah, so and if you were to if this were to be actual international law where you could kidnap any president that is corrupt or is uh you know, wreaking havoc or is enriching themselves with the presidency, uh then Donald Trump should absolutely be kidnapped. Come one, come all. Is that what we're doing now? I didn't realize that you know, if if president's corrupt, then you just come in and kidnap them. Now, of course,

[45:19] Donald Trump far more corrupt than anything Maduro has ever done. Uh we all know this has nothing to do with drugs. We all know this has a lot to do with oil and resources. So, the the the question is though will Donald Trump and the CIA as John Kerry said this has CIA fingerprints all over it. Also, Donald Trump before this happened said he's unleashed the CIA in Venezuela. So, uh will Donald Trump and the CIA allow uh Delcy Rodriguez or other factions of

[45:49] the Bolivarian Revolution that that represented by Chavez and Maduro, will they allow them to govern or will they uh go in and take them out and kidnap them or bomb them and kill them or what are these next steps? Uh Here is Donald Trump essentially saying that he'll do the same thing again. Uh he'll do it more if ba- basically if uh Venezuela doesn't give all their resources to the United States.

[46:20] Um now the person who posted this added in cuz Donald Trump says we have to do it again and she added in other countries but I don't think he meant in other countries. I think he meant we'll have to do it again in Venezuela if they don't do exactly what we want. But anyway, you decide for yourself. Here's the clip from Donald Trump speaking on Fox News. But we can't take a chance of after having done this incredible thing last night of letting somebody else

[46:51] take over where we have to do it again. We can do it again, too. Nobody can stop us. There's nobody that has the capability that we have. Nobody can stop us as if that is how any kind of law works. It's just whatever you can do without being stopped. Is that how it works? Or are we trying to believe there is some kind of international law that is beyond what you're able to do? Because if it's just what you're able to do

[47:21] then any stronger country can kidnap any leaders they want. And in fact some there are some >> [laughter] >> there are some representatives in other countries, politicians in other countries that realize that this might set a bad precedent. Uh now of course the US has been assassinating leaders around the world for years so I guess this is not new in certain ways. The difference is that they kidnapped him. They kidnapped Noriega as well in Panama. Uh but it seems more often they just

[47:51] killed him than kidnapped him. It seems I'd say after all the reading I've done that it seems likely that they killed Hugo Chavez with cancer. It is not that difficult for our CIA to give someone cancer. Uh it's you you can inject someone with radioactive elements. You can sew radioactive lining into car seats. There are There are ways to give people cancer. And so uh I wouldn't at all be surprised if the CIA were involved in giving Chavez

[48:22] cancer. But anyway, uh as one example, but here is uh this is a British MP uh the senior labor MP saying uh her name is El- sorry, Emily Thornberry saying that the Venezuela attack could embolden other countries. And of course, in order to be a good, you know, little good little liberal for either the US or Britain, you have to say could embolden Russia and China. Right? Those are the evil countries, not

[48:54] the one that's actually doing it, not the one that's [ __ ] doing the thing, not not Donald Trump. You just have to say this could embolden embolden the bad guys, Russia and China. Uh but yeah, that's another aspect of this, which is this just all bets on international law are just gone. Uh all all anything is justified as long as you're strong enough to do it. Venezuela Thank you, VC Nick, uh who's saying Venezuela respect replaces

[49:25] the Epstein files in the news cycle, very true. Everything is just another story that keeps us angry and dependent on the system they've created. Yes, and of course, many people have pointed out that Trump also did this to cover up the Epstein files. Uh but I don't I don't like that some people act like that's the only reason. No, no, there's a much larger thing at play here. Yes, he did want to cover up the Epstein files, and it seems to to working so far. The mainstream media not mentioning Epstein, even most independent media not mentioning Epstein. Uh but there's

[49:57] something much larger going on, which is uh the rise of China, the petrodollar, the Belt and Road, BRICS. And if you aren't talking about those things, then you really have no idea what what you're talking about here. Uh but yes, Trump saying we'll do it again. And like what what is stopping cuz there are so many countries that the United States wants to coup and has been trying to coup. There are larger ones like Iran, but there are even smaller ones like Niger.

[50:28] Uh and and what what is stopping the United States from just going into these countries, killing a few people, sure, maybe 80 like in Venezuela, maybe a few hundred, maybe a few thousand. What's it matter? Killing a few people and kidnapping their president and just taking them away. Like that that is that just what we're doing now all the time? Um yeah. Let's uh let's also play this clip of Marco Rubio saying I don't care what the

[51:00] UN says. Because we don't care about international law. International law's meaning to us now meaningless to us now. Uh cuz he was asked about the question leading to this was that the UN has uh independent did an independent study and found that Venezuela uh plays little to no role in drug trafficking. Barely any drugs even go through Venezuela. It is a tiny tiny player. It has nothing to do with fentanyl, which is supposedly the thing they're most upset about. It

[51:31] has maybe 5% of cocaine that ends up in the United States ever even touches Venezuela. But they're trying to pretend that Maduro is a drug trafficker. So that's what he's asked about. No, no, for for you're you're wrong in your question. Number one, Venezuela is a major source. And the reason why is the following. And I've seen a lot of this reporting and it's fake reporting and I'll tell you why. It says that somehow Venezuela is not involved in the drug trade because the UN says they're not involved in the U- I don't the UN I don't care what the UN says. The Oh. You don't care. Well, that certainly

[52:02] wins the debate. I don't What about this thing that completely disproves what you're talking about? Well, I don't care. Oh. OH, YOU DON'T CARE. OH, OKAY. For a minute I thought you cared. Oh, okay. As long as you don't care, then it must not be true. doesn't know what they're talking about. Maduro is indicted by a grand jury in the Southern District of New York. That You ever heard the expression that you can indict a ham sandwich? They just went to a judge that licks Donald Trump's ass and they said, "Hey, indict

[52:32] Maduro for narco-trafficking." And the judge said, "Absolutely. Here you go." Done and done. And And And Rubio's acting like that is proof. That's proof of [ __ ] nothing. Nothing. Y- Anyone, again, anyone who still believes this had anything to do with drugs is just gullible beyond all belief. Uh Yes, and I'm just I'm just going to show you this title. I mentioned this for a

[53:04] minute before, but Trump is from the Atlantic. Trump is now threatening Venezuela's new leader with a fate worse than Maduro's. Basically, I I think without saying the word drone bomb, he's basically saying we'll drone bomb uh whoever replaces uh Nicolas Maduro, which right now is Delcy Rodríguez, uh unless you basically sell us all of your resources, all your oil, all your uh other resources. Venezuela has loads of gold, uh but they also have other rare

[53:34] earth metals which the United States needs because China has really cornered the market on that. Okay, I now want to play Jeffrey Sachs, Professor Jeffrey Sachs' speech to the UN and analyze that a little bit about this very issue about Venezuela. Um couple of quick notes before I do that. Uh I will uh we have a government secrets episode on Wednesday at uh 9:00 a.m. Eastern, but of course you can watch it at any time. You can also listen to the podcast Government

[54:05] Secrets. So, join me for that. Uh new Unredacted tonight comes out Thursday at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. And uh most importantly, I hope you guys will join up at my Substack reallycamp.substack.com. You guys, thanks to your support, have made uh have made my Substack it you know, it varies day to day, but we got as high as number three in world politics Substack's world politics rankings. Uh we're now down I think in the 20s, but still amazing to be

[54:38] anywhere on that list, and it's because you guys are uh joining up at reallycamp.substack.com. And if you want to see my show and Unredacted and all my work continue, uh it'd be amazing if you could join up for two coffees a month, uh the the cost of two coffees a month, and that's what keeps the show going. I you know, because of the suppression, you know, a lot of other independent creators on YouTube w- they can make crazy amounts of money on ad dollars. I make essentially nothing on ad dollars. So,

[55:10] it really comes down to whether you guys l- like to see my work and like to see uh all of it continue. So, reallycamp.substack.com. But okay, let's watch Jeffrey Sachs talk to the UN. Uh I'm going to play this on like, you know, we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll say 1.2 speed, okay? And I'll check the comments. If you guys are like, "Way too fast," then we'll we'll slow it down, but I'd like to get through uh most of it. So, let's try 1.2 speed and see how you

[55:42] feel. Just see whether you're feeling it, whether it feels a little too much like Jeffrey Sachs is on coke, and uh and we'll we'll we'll analyze it as we go. But, here he is speaking to the UN. This happened today. The issue before the council today is not the character of the government of Venezuela. The issue is whether any member state, by force, coercion, or economic strangulation, has the right to determine Venezuela's political future or to exercise control over its affairs. This question goes directly to Article

[56:12] 2, Section 4 of the United Nations Charter, which prohibits the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state. See, so many of so many people are debating this, and so many people in our main stream, maybe all of our main stream media, are [ __ ] missing the point here. That it doesn't matter whether you like Maduro or not. That doesn't matter. It doesn't matter whether you like drugs or not. It doesn't matter whether you care

[56:44] that we're bombing fishermen or not. None of that matters. It is illegal under international law to go in with force and just exert whatever you want on a sovereign state. And the idea of that the idea of these laws and the UN bylaws, etc., they were put in there to stop exactly this. To stop Hitler-esque lunatics saying, "I will do whatever I want in

[57:14] these other countries cuz I have a stronger army or a stronger military or a stronger CIA." That is kind of the whole point of the UN. And so, these debates, you'll see endless debates. You see all this war fetishism, military fetishism on CNN and and multiple sclerosis now and and the News and all this [ __ ] That is none of that is the point. It doesn't all of our military was so awesome. Oh, look at what it did. Oh, it went in there so quickly. Oh, it jammed their defenses. Oh, we we paid off some

[57:45] of his insiders. None of that matters in the debate. The debate is about whether a bigger and stronger country can just do whatever the [ __ ] it wants to a smaller, weaker country. And the idea is in order to have a peaceful world was that's illegal. Kind of the concept. If you want a peaceful world, you cannot just have the biggest guys bombing, killing, and kidnapping the weaker guys militarily speaking.

[58:18] The council must decide whether that prohibition is to be upheld or abandoned. Abandoning it would carry consequences of the greatest kind. Let me offer some background. Since 1947, the United States foreign policy has repeatedly employed force, covert action, and political manipulation to bring about regime change in other countries. This is a matter of carefully documented historical record. In her book, Covert Regime Change, political scientist Lindsey O'Rourke documents 70 attempted US regime change

[58:48] operations between 1947 and 1989 alone. And a lot of these, you know, some of them are famous. If you even slightly look into history, you know, the the cooing of Chile in 1973, the killing of the socialist Salvador, socialist leader Salvador Allende, killing of Lumumba. There there's so many examples of assassinations or straight-up kidnappings like we did with Noriega in Panama. It doesn't mean

[59:19] Noriega was a good guy. Doesn't mean I like Noriega. In fact, Noriega was the what initially working for the US and CIA for years, but then he got a little too high on his horse and they wanted him out. So, they go in and they kidnap him. And there's so many examples of this. The kissing the kidnapping of Jean-Bertrand Aristide where in Haiti where first democratically elected leader of Haiti was just put on a US military plane and dumped in Africa. You could go down the

[59:51] list, but so I do think it's important to while this is horrific, what we just saw is horrific. It is important to understand this is a trend of the US empire. This is not this didn't start yesterday. This is not that new in fact. I guess perhaps what's new is that it's all being live streamed and we know what's going on in a way a better way than than we used to know, but These practices did not end with the Cold War. Since 1989 major United States

[1:00:23] regime change operations undertaken without authorization by the Security Council have included among the most consequential Iraq 2003, Libya 2011, Syria beginning in 2011, Honduras 2009, Ukraine 2014, and Venezuela from 2002 onward. The methods employed are well-established and well-documented. They include open warfare, covert intelligence operations, instigation of unrest, support for armed groups, manipulation of mass and social media,

[1:00:55] bribery of military and civilian officials, targeted assassinations, false flag operations, and economic warfare. And you know, I'm glad he went through that list and all the different ways that the US uses to to coup and destroy various countries that get in the way of our economic hegemony. I I think you could divide these up into kind of two groups. Those that the US openly admits or is openly seen doing such as the invasion of Iraq in order to destroy

[1:01:26] Iraq and stop it from undermining the petrodollar by selling all of their oil outside of US dollars. Uh also the Israel wanted them want want Iraq to no longer be powerful in the region. Uh so that the things like Iraq and Libya and to some degree Syria are kind of done and you know Afghanistan are done in your face. Like you see it. It's obvious. The US is going in to destroy this country. Uh same with kidnapping of Maduro. But then there's the other group is the

[1:01:57] ones where the US pretends to have no connection to the change in governments to the to the change in leadership. Uh and you know that list is very long indeed, but some of the most recent ones you got Imran Khan in Pakistan. The US advised them on the lawfare issue. You got Argentina using lawfare to get Javier Miley out. Uh lawfare is used a lot law law lawfare was used to lock up Lula da Silva in in Brazil. These are all being advised

[1:02:28] by the US government or the CIA. Uh you know and and so the there's there's that whole other bucket of coups or regime change efforts that the US pretends to have almost nothing to do with. And yet is very much in charge of stage managing, you know, behind the curtains and Americans don't seem to have any idea about those. Americans do know about Iraq, but a lot of them just believe the propaganda. They well, we had to go in

[1:03:00] there cuz they they had the WMDs. Uh Of course, all garbage. Again, had to do with oil. Had to do with petrodollar. Uh and had to do with global hegemony. These measures are illegal under the UN Charter and they typically result in ongoing violence, lethal conflict, political instability, and deep suffering of the civilian population. The recent [clears throat] US record with respect to Venezuela is also clear. In April 2002, the US knew of and approved an attempted coup against the

[1:03:32] government. In the 2010s, the United States funded civil society groups actively engaged in anti-government protests. When the government cracked down on the protest, the US followed with a series of sanctions. In 2015, Yeah, so he's mentioning one of the tactics that the US uses, which is to facilitate anti-government protests, but the real place that the US steps in is to turn them violent because they want the government of whatever country to have

[1:04:02] to violently suppress said protest. So, if you can turn them violent and and also to blame any you know, fires, any deaths, any shootings, you just blame it on the government whether it was the government or not. In fact, in the coup against Chavez in 2002, many people were shot. It was not by Chavez's government. It was by the opposition, but Chavez's government gets blamed for it. And what what that Why would the US want to do that? Why do they care if a couple of protesters are killed? Well, then the US can say, "Oh, look at what

[1:04:33] they did. Well, we got to put on sanctions cuz they killed protesters. Throw the sanctions on there." President Barack Obama declared Venezuela to be, and I quote, "an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States." In 2017, at a dinner with Latin American leaders on the margin of the UN General Assembly, President Trump openly discussed the option of the US invading Venezuela to overthrow the government. During 2017 to 2020, the United States

[1:05:04] imposed sweeping sanctions on the state oil company PDVSA. Oil production fell by 75% from 2016 to 2020 and the real GDP per capita declined by 62%. So, now he's talking about the economic warfare against Venezuela that's gone on for years. And so, when when Marco Rubio and these other lunatics like to go, "Look at how hard Venezuelans have it. Look at how rough their economy is. Look at how they don't even have good medical care." I mean, they actually do

[1:05:34] have good medical care, but there are certain medicines and things they can't get access to. Whenever they do that, well, why is that? Well, it's because the US has tried to sanction them into oblivion. Has sanctioned them so much that they can't pump their oil, not much of it. They therefore don't have nearly the money that that country would have, and therefore they suffer economically. And this serves two purposes. One is the United States can go, "We're going in to help those poor Venezuelans cuz they

[1:06:04] don't have enough money, and things are hard for them." That's reason one. Reason two is this idea that if you sanction a country enough so the people are really starving to death or having a lot of trouble, then those people will rise up against their government. The problem comes in when those people are actually educated as to why they're having hardship, as to why their economy is struggling. If they know that it has to do with an economic war against them, and it has to do with US empire, and has to do with the gooey tentacles of our

[1:06:36] [ __ ] empire, then they tend to not get that mad at their government. But, you know, we've done this to many countries, sanctioned them so much that the people are starving to death. You know, the UN estimates that 100,000 people have died in Venezuela due to our economic war on them, but far more than that died in Syria during our economic war on Syrians. Before even before Assad fell or fled, 94% of Syrians were below the poverty line. This was because we had made it

[1:07:08] impossible for Syria to do any kind of economic business around the world. So, you ended up with almost the entire population in dire straits, people starving to death. And as I've mentioned many times, who does this kill first? Who Who dies from 94% of the country being below the poverty line? Well, it's generally babies, small children, and the elderly. Those are the ones who have the most difficult time surviving when food is scarce. So,

[1:07:40] who are we killing in Syria? Well, babies and elderly. So, yeah, awesome. We're the good guys, right? We're doing the good and noble thing murdering the babies of Syria. I mean, honestly, like who [ __ ] makes that argument? What kind of lunatic sociopath is like, "Well, we're murdering babies. It's awesome. Good for us. That ought to teach them." It's It's just crazy. It's absolutely It's just psychopathic. And of course, there's the famous quote of Madeleine Albright being asked in that interview

[1:08:11] about the 500,000 babies and children we killed in Iraq and asking her if it was worth it, and she said, "We We think it's worth it." Oh, yeah? So, worth it for you, Madeleine? The UN General Assembly has repeatedly voted overwhelmingly against such unilateral coercive measures. Under international law, only the Security Council has the authority to impose such measures. On the 23rd of January 2019, the United States unilaterally recognized Mr. Juan Guaidó as interim president, and a few

[1:08:43] days later froze approximately $7 billion of Venezuelan sovereign assets held abroad, and gave the designated authority over certain of these assets. These actions form part of a continuous US regime change effort spanning more than two decades. What he I know he didn't have time to say everything, but what he didn't mention is Juan Guaidó, who we announced was the president of Venezuela, had never even run for president of Venezuela. He had received zero votes for president of Venezuela. When we announced he was president of Venezuela,

[1:09:13] 80% of Venezuelans had never heard of him. So, right. He's president of Venezuela. Awesome. Sure. In the past year, the United States has carried out bombing operations in seven countries, none of which were authorized by the UN Security Council, and none of which were undertaken in lawful self-defense under the charter. The targeted countries include Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, Somalia, Syria, Yemen, and now Venezuela. In the past month, President Trump has

[1:09:44] issued He didn't mention that we we even though we were bombing off of Venezuela, it was also off of Trinidad and Tobago, so we killed Trinidadians. We killed uh I believe Colombians as well. So, if you add those two countries on, it's actually What did he say? Five countries? That makes seven or eight. This is the peace president, folks. Peace president. Remember that. Okay? Very peaceful president. >> to direct threats against six UN member

[1:10:15] states, including Colombia, Denmark, Iran, Mexico, Nigeria, and of course Venezuela. Members of the council are not called upon to judge Nicolás Maduro. They are not called upon to assess whether the recent US attack and ongoing naval quarantine results in freedom or in subjugation. Members of the council are called upon to defend the international law, and specifically the UN Charter. The realist school of international relations, articulated most brilliantly by John Mearsheimer, accurately

[1:10:47] describes the condition of international anarchy as the tragedy of great power politics. Realism is therefore a description, not a solution for peace. Its own conclusion is that anarchy leads to tragedy. In the aftermath of World War I, the League of Nations was created to end the tragedy through the application of international law. Yet, the world's leading nations failed to defend international law in the 1930s, leading to renewed global war. Uh I can't remember he didn't say the word, but I can't remember what came

[1:11:18] after the 1930s. There he says global war, but there was there was some sort of group of ner'do-wells that uh rose to power when the international bodies in other countries just didn't stand up to them at all. Uh and eventually it resulted in a massive world war because the guy I don't remember his name or what he was up to, but the guy was just taking over other countries and then the countries that could have stood up to him were like,

[1:11:49] "Eh, just let him take a few countries. I'm sure it'll be fine. I'm sure it'll be all right. He'll he'll stop at that." Just like Donald Trump, he's going to stop at just kidnapping Maduro, right? We should all just stand down and let it happen cuz it's just the one guy he's kidnapping. Even though I just played the Fox News clip where he says we need to do this more. Why wouldn't we do this more? Uh but I'm sure it'll just be this one thing. So, just yeah, let that happen cuz it's totally he's going to stop there and I think all is well after

[1:12:19] this. The United Nations emerged from that catastrophe as humanity's second great effort to place international law above international anarchy. In the words of the charter, the UN was created {quote} to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind. Given that we are in the nuclear age, failure I don't think he's going to say like I'm not going to get into this, but I don't think he's using the word anarchy correctly. It's really he's talking about international lawlessness. Anarchy

[1:12:50] does not equal lawlessness. If you actually study what anarchy It just means this you know not have hierarchy, but you could have you could have a very lawful world that has no hierarchy, meaning one country does not rule over the other countries. So, it really what he means is lawlessness, but it's a side point. cannot be repeated. Humanity would perish. There would be no third chance. To fulfill its responsibilities under the charter, the Security Council should

[1:13:21] immediately affirm the following actions. The United States shall immediately cease and desist from all explicit and implicit threats or use of force against Venezuela. The United States shall terminate its naval quarantine and all related coercive military measures undertaken in the absence of authorization by the UN Security Council. The United States shall immediately withdraw its military forces from within and along the perimeter of Venezuela, including intelligence, naval, air, and other forward deployed assets positioned for coercive purposes.

[1:13:51] Venezuela shall adhere to the UN Charter and to the human rights protected in the universal I love the shout out of the US representative. Just like, "Oh, that's interesting things to think about. I HADN'T I HADN'T THOUGHT ABOUT THOSE THINGS. I'M GOING TO write this down. Hold on. What did he say? International law. Does anyone have a Googler nearby? What international law? He said He used a big word. I don't know what that is, but it's just very interesting what this fellow is talking about."

[1:14:22] Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The Secretary-General, I recommend, should immediately appoint a special envoy mandated to engage relevant Venezuelan and international stakeholders and to report back to the Security Council within 14 days with recommendations consistent with the charter. And the Security Council should remain urgently seized of this matter. Anyway, you get the point. That's basically the end, but uh But, uh yeah, Jeffrey Sachs normally very on point on these geopolitical

[1:14:54] issues. So, you should definitely watch his videos. Uh, but will the UN do anything? What do you think? I they you know, they certainly succeeded in stopping the genocide in Gaza, didn't they? That's not happening at all. So, yeah, UN jumped in there and said, "Not on our watch will there be genocide." Right? And it's totally and it's totally over. There's not There's not like an ongoing ethnic cleansing or anything. Mhm. I love this lawless world in which we live. Uh, anyway, I'm working on a

[1:15:25] Substack column uh, possibly coming out tomorrow on on how this this kidnapping Maduro is one of many efforts of the US against Latin America over the years to either kidnap, assassinate, or kick out various leaders that gotten our way of our hegemony, of our raping and pillaging of the world. So, that column all my columns are are free

[1:15:57] and you can check it out at reallycamp.substack.com. Again, if you want to see my work continue, I hope you think that this show and my others and my columns are worth two coffees a month cuz it makes a huge difference. Really huge difference. reallycamp.substack.com. I will be back Wednesday at 9:00 a.m. Eastern, but you can watch it anytime with government secrets. Not not going to reveal the topics yet at this time.

[1:16:27] But, then there'll be a new Unredacted tonight, Thursday, and a new live stream Friday. So, back on the full schedule now here in the new year. Thank you guys so so for joining me and uh yeah, it's the the the desperation of the US empire is is just getting getting worse. And you know, I've I've been saying this for years as we see the US as we see a move towards a

[1:16:57] multipolar world, no longer US hegemony, uh will the US respond by you know, with diplomacy and peacefulness and realizing that hey, maybe we don't need everything in every country. Maybe we could just uh have a little bit of a slowdown. I mean, granted, we got to get rid of capitalism. That's that's a whole other discussion, but maybe we just slow down a little and actually not re- pillage every other country and and and still have like a a cooperation and

[1:17:29] an understanding or will we deal with it by being like a cornered tiger and go, well, I can bomb and obliterate a lot of things and that'll make me feel better. I can kidnap other countries' leaders and throw them into a a small room with bars. That'll make me feel good. That'll fix it. Which one do you think will will choose? Which way do you think we're headed of those of those two paths? All right. See you Wednesday for Government Secrets, Thursday for Under

[1:17:59] the Night and keep fighting. Well, brother, I salute you though, man. You one of the few to bring together this [music] tremendous artistic talent and still be in so such deep solidarity with oppressed people. It's an honor to be here because I'll tell you, Lee, you have one of the funniest shows on television, bar none. It's an enormous pleasure to be here.

[1:18:30] Oh, I was watching, I was leafing through your wonderful book. Same to you. I love your show. I'd be happy to come back anytime. >> Lee, this is one of the great honors of my long career just to be in the in the same [music] earth with you. I'm sure. We're just so blinded. We have so many blinders on because our society doesn't want us to know things. [music] And so it takes shows like your show and it's It is clearly designed to eradicate Hey, good to see you. Hey, Jill. How are you? Julian, thanks for joining me.

[1:19:00] Honor to have you, brother. Samaritanism is a theory that people should behave this way to help each other. It's [music] it's not Mr. George Galloway, thank you so much for joining me in these dark times. Always a pleasure, my friend. Thank you so much, Lee, for having me on. Keep fighting. >> [laughter]
