Title: Inside the CIA: Whistleblower John Kiriakou Reveals What Y
Show: Lionel Nation
Date: 2025-03-29
URL: https://youtu.be/BUS9gA518Sg
Duration: 43:00

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[00:00] I'm joined by John kyaku as you can see his name and by the way he is ubiquitous on all things platform you could go on I saw the other day a a a 14-year-old Filipino girl unboxing a curling iron he was on that he's everywhere you are you own the internet good for you my dear friend welcome well maybe maybe you can help me figure out how to monetize that ah monetize oh I see that's a different story yes well well first is ubiquity then comes the

[00:32] the gobs of cash but but I but I mean that that's a very very important thing today and you have a an absolute affinity and by the way before we get into the serious stuff anybody who's watched you you know John there's a lot of people who well are kind of full of it uh I was xcia and I was OS and I was this and when I killed when I killed Saddam you know okay and they and they're covered in tats and this and you come across like

[01:03] everybody's favorite neighbor friend pal Uncle if that's why I was [Music] successful oh you muted yourself there you go if I said guess who the counterterrorism expert is they would say no not not this guy not that guy let me see something I went to nightclub one time where my brother was performing and the lead guitarist said you know thanks for

[01:35] coming hello uh Minneapolis we even have a CIA guy in the audience today and I heard a guy at the next table say I know who it is it's that dude with the long beard by the door the one with all the tats it's got to be him that's my first question what well so many questions what does it take to do what you

[02:05] did oh that that's a good question and it's actually kind of a hard question to answer so the the job of the CIA in its simplest form is to recruit spies to steal Secrets exactly that's it that's what that's what the job is um it can get far more complicated than that depending on what your specific mission is but basically if you're in ations it's to recruit spies to steal secrets so how do you do that um they teach us at the CIA that the way

[02:39] you do that is with a very light touch the the easiest way to a recruitment is to convince the Target that you are his best friend and that takes time so they they use something that they call the asset acquisition cycle spot assess develop recruit so let's say you go to a diplomatic cocktail party I'm not interested in speaking to the Spanish green officer no interest I am

[03:10] interested in talking to the Russian the Cuban the North Korean um you know the the whatever right whatever enemy country we happen to have at any given time and um you start by expressing interest in what they do for a living you exchange business cards a couple days later you make a phone call you invite them to lunch then you invite them to dinner then you invite him and his wife to dinner with you and your wife and then you hit it off maybe you spend a holiday

[03:41] together maybe the guy mentions in passing he likes let's say deep sea fishing well your budget is literally unlimited and so you Charter a fishing boat and you go out deep sea and you fish for Marlins something he could never afford to do I was developing a guy when I was stationed at the United Nations and he said that the Manhattan skyline at Sunset was the most beautiful thing he had ever seen in his life so I got him a sunset helicopter tour of uh

[04:13] of Manhattan right wow I thought he was gonna cry that was a few hundred dollars well spent let me tell you so you spend money and you become closer and closer and closer and then then finally you're ready to make your pitch now of course you have to identify in this person what the CIA calls a vulnerability that's not as ugly a word as it sounds No a vulnerability can be

[04:44] anything from this guy really really loves his kids and he wants his kids to go to the best university they can possibly get them into well I can get his kids into literally any university in the United States literally anyone you want your kid to go to Harvard done give me two hours in your code room give me the plans to that new Russian tank that your government just bought I'll get your kid into Harvard no problem maybe his wife has

[05:16] cancer and uh they would rather go to the Mayo Clinic than to some local Yoko Hospital in whatever third world country they're in I can get your wife into the Mayo Clinic I can get the best Cancer Specialists in the world to examine your wife and to treat her uh maybe they're broke maybe he's a gambler maybe he's a drunk maybe his boss doesn't like him and he keeps getting passed over for promotion you just Identify some vulnerability and you make up for it and it also gives him a way out he can say

[05:47] listen what I'm doing might be in fact Espionage or whatever it is however it's my kids it's my wife it's not like I'm not I'm not doing this for me uh where did I hear this somebody said I it might be you I don't know but I never I never forget somebody said the guy that he wanted to meet some some who said uh CIA or some operative Intel operative who said I want the guy who is the Xerox or the copy machine oh that was me that was

[06:18] you yeah I loved that that's see that's me you said I want a guy who goes it tell me that story that's the best that was a great story it was from one of my instructors at the farm and he said you know Farm by the way Farm is is a is a rehab I'm kidding it should be kind of kind of kind of the farm is the cia's training facility uh in the Virginia Countryside and um so he said you know as young officers you're

[06:48] all fantasizing about going to some country and recruiting the Prime Minister he said but let me tell you my best recruitment of my entire career it was not the prime minister it was the copy machine repair man love this and he said now why would anybody care to recruit a copy machine repair man well it's because the Prime Minister has a copy machine in his office and so you recruit the guy who does the copy machine repairs for the prime minister's office or the prime minister's residence

[07:19] eventually that copy machine is going to need a cleaning toner some sort of repair and you give this guy $100,000 in cash or in diamonds or in gold or whatever he wants so that when he goes in there to repair that machine he installs a little device so every single time a copy is made it transmits another copy to CIA headquarters see this is the thing that I love the most about what you've done and and I and and please forgive me because um I've got 50

[07:51] different things I want to say at one time and I can't we lost a great asset with you what the hell did you we we we we we train you you you got this devious mind you're a nice person I think you've got you're you're you're basically a soldier for truth or Intel whatever it is and then we get rid of you yeah because you've got a conscience but but I gotta tell you one quick story because it's about Behavior a friend of mine told me one time he said he was a chef and he worked he says I've worked in a restaurants he says do you know where

[08:21] they always do business in the kitchen he says I cannot tell you the people I've seen famous people politicians do dope deals in the kitchen they think that something that you don't see them there he said I don't know what it is and I'll never forget this because my whole life my whole work is behavior whether it's politics whether it's in fact you could be a great dating service for young men if they even date anymore when you meet a woman how do you you're

[08:53] basically trying your best to not not fool them but but to gain trust vulnerability life is like that salesman priests uh people salesman yes may may I tell you a story please after I left the CIA well actually it was when my first book came out so this would have been like early 2010 I got hired to be the keynote speaker at an offsite for 140 Partners at Price Waterhouse

[09:24] Coopers one of the big four consulting firms and I remember well somebody to whom I used to be close uh saying what in the world are you going to talk about with 140 like accounting and Consulting Partners I said I'll think of something so I told this story when I got there I said that when I was serving in Pakistan I got a tip that the middle level of al-qaeda's leadership was meeting every day in this rundown coffee

[09:57] shop and so I had this bushy beard I grew when I was there to try to fit in and um and I went to this coffee shop with an Arabic language newspaper tucked under my arm so I went to the coffee shop I never said a word to anybody I didn't even make eye contact but I held the newspaper up so they could see that I was reading Arabic not uru or pashu this went on for a week and then they would come in every day at the same time and I would be sitting there with the day's Arabic language paper just

[10:30] reading and finally the second week they came in and one of them nodded to me that was all he did and I nodded back another week passed and finally they come in and he says to meum may peace be upon you and I said and may peace be upon you well one day this guy came in alone and he comes in and he says Salam alayum and I said the

[11:00] come and please please come and sit with me so he sits down and I said my name is uh Ahmed what is your name and his name is you know salm and I said so what are you what are you doing salm do you live here yes he says I I live here I I'd like to go home to Egypt I'd like to uh you know I came here years ago to make uh Jihad against the Americans and I'm tired I've been fighting for five years and it's really time to go home to Egypt I have a son he said that I've never met and I said oh tell me about your

[11:32] family that's the vulnerability yep tell me about your family so he said I have a daughter she's nine years old my son now is is almost five years old and my poor wife she has to she has to rely on the kindness of family and friends to put food on the table and what kind of a man am I and so we talked like really talked and then I invited him to dinner he was very grateful we talked a little more and then I went in for the kill and

[12:03] I said listen I I haven't really been honest with you I'm actually a CIA officer yeah right right I'm not one of those yeah not like no and he said I wondered he said you speak Arabic with a Lebanese accent but not really my my two of my three teachers were Lebanese but there's some other accent behind it that I can't quite pin down I said well it's it's an American

[12:34] accent and he said I I thought so I said I hope I'm not scaring you by telling you that I'm a CIA officer and he said what do you want from me wow and I said well I know who you are and I know that you run you know the al-Qaeda whatever and I said listen September 11th it not only killed 3,000 Americans it killed 114 Muslims is that really what Allah would like is that really what the prophet

[13:06] Muhammad what he would have wanted people to do come on you know what a sin this is it's time to go home and he kind of thought about it yeah and he agreed and he said I need help I said I will give you anything you want and so we agreed on a dollar figure he gave me the access that I wanted and he was able to fly home to Egypt and

[13:38] start a new life and then I said to this group of PWC Partners why am I telling you the story I'm telling you because what I did and what you do really isn't that different because it's all about the relationship if I can convince somebody to commit Espionage if I can convince somebody to commit treason just because he has a good relationship with me you can certainly

[14:10] sell that that tax audit you can certainly sell that Consulting contract at the Department of Agriculture when I was getting ready to leave Pakistan I asked him I was saying goodbye and I said I have to ask you why did you agree to work with me I'm just curious and he said because I was in Afghanistan and Pakistan for five years and you were the first person that ever asked me about my family wow and I said

[14:42] and there it is take a genuine interest in the people that you're trying to work with and and let me tell and and John not not to uh to add this but but you didn't lie to him no you did exact you you delivered you there's no see that thing is there's no duplicity here you didn't lie to him you said I want this I'll I'll do and then you didn't you didn't get him and then turn him over to his uh to his his compatriots and the like here's the part I'm GNA ask hypothetical

[15:14] what if assume arguendo as we say in law versus inuendo which is an Italian suppository which has nothing to do with this but assume assume somebody says John I want you to meet somebody first of all person number one is a young man who looks like you was like you who saysi want to go in and I want to join the what what you call it the company or the farm the the agency the company is only used in movies yeah I was gonna say because I'm I'm okay yeah but but but

[15:45] they ask you the question should I do this should I do this would would you recommend that I do this is it honorable will they take care of me will I get in trouble what would you tell them people ask me that almost every single day and and I I tell them there there's no easy answer to this you have to be able if you decide to do it you have to be able to go into this with your own set of moral values they're not gonna they're not going to send you to a class to teach you morals or ethics you have to

[16:18] know when to say no I'm not doing that it's illegal it's immoral it's unethical I'm not doing it and you have to be prepared to resign if they insist that you do it so what happens though when you do this and you tell the truth yeah the right thing and then they turn around and they say now you've broken the law but here's the best part you've got the best excuse in the world to say I I took an oath and

[16:50] other people because you can remember morality is what you do when nobody's there it's kind of what you tell yourself amen that is exactly what it is yes that is exactly what it is because listen if you if you decide to stand up to them and I'll give you the example I was I was opposed to the torture program when I was inside and I thought this is so wrong so obviously wrong so obviously illegal somebody is going to come out and say something and then nobody did and so finally I

[17:23] did and they sent me to prison they they asked for 45 years in prison it was a death why under what because you did what you you violated an oath you you compromised what in my view I upheld my oath my oath was to protect the the Constitution um from all enemies foreign and domestic but what did they say what in in they said that I I had exposed classified information well how in the hell do you

[17:54] listen any every time somebody whether you're Sammy the I'm not putting it or Lorraine Brockovich or a whistleblower qu qu Tom legislation right Edward Snowden you're violating a law either written accepted that's what you do you can't be a freaking whistleblower and expose bad cops or whatever it is without breaking

[18:24] some law that's right you're absolutely right and in the end like they charged me with three counts of Espionage right oh see that's that catch all yeah yeah yeah it is and uh they ended up having to drop all all three of those charges I hadn't committed Espionage but um my my lawyers were very clear at the beginning you know I was feeling sorry for myself one day and one of them said you know this this case is not about you this case is about scaring every other person in

[18:55] government who's thinking of going public and they were right why are you why are you did anybody listen like you're going to tell me if if it happened but did somebody say hey kyaku don't get any ideas of going on some podcast and spilling your guts because or do they say you know what we want you to tell people we want you to go out there and tell them what we did to you so that if there's another one out there we want them to hear it so please say it loud proud that's a great

[19:27] question and in fact when I did it I went on ABC News they're the ones that broadcast it but instead of the CIA asking ABC not to air the interview they told him go ahead and air the interview but we deny that there's a torture program they didn't try to stop them yeah that see but that they they want that and if the truth be known you know recently uh John I did a uh i' I'm a I'm

[19:57] a frustrated Psych ologist psychiatrist of uh small engine repair you name it I I love but as an undergrad I remember I I was a psych major and I loved the mgrm experiment and then the the uh Stanford Prison Experiment and all oh yeah yeah yeah and there's something about I always said how can you torture how does a regular person do it and what Stanford Prison uh zimbardo whatever his name is said is that

[20:27] anybody can do Lindy England was nobody special oh you are exactly right and and when you say if I say and the mgrm experiment zapping people this was at the time of the ikan trial because what mgram at Yale wanted to know was how do people just do this say just pass it just just do my job if somebody had a white coat and said the experiment must continue do it this isn't a human being this is not a and no

[20:59] no this is a terrorist who brought down those Towers he's got bloody get them and then you get the group and then you get into the mob psychology of Leon and then you get into this accy you put this all together and I can turn Lindy England from some some you know from just some kid from West Virginia yeah and I will turn her into Vlad the Impaler so fast to make your head spin oh you are absolutely right so who's the bad guy I worked with this I worked with this kid actually he

[21:30] worked for me in Pakistan man I didn't like this kid from the get-go he actually washed out of the operational class so he was not an operations officer like the rest of us were he was what's called a special operations officer which is an assistant they do surveillance or it's like hey buddy do my accounting paperwork I'm too busy that kind of thing so he he came out with a a group of guys to help us do raids on the safe houses the night that we captured abua we captured so many

[22:03] people that night that we had to bring the prisoners into our safe house in shifts in a Patty wagon 10 at a time to interrogate them so the first group of 10 came in and they all had hoods on their heads and I said why are they hooded now remember I'm the chief of counterterrorism operations in Pakistan I said why are they hooded he said we don't want them to see our faces I said Are you seriously telling me that you have never read the Geneva

[22:34] Convention you cannot put hoods on them it's a war crime I said take the hoods off and he says wait a minute he says to his guys wait a minute don't take the hoods off we're not at War oh I said we're taking the hoods off and I'm reporting you to headquarters and he says I'm reporting you to headquarters I said fine we reported each other to headquarters I got in trouble I got in trouble they didn't give two shits about the Geneva Convention but

[23:04] you're not at War I love I love that one I love the way we use it listen it's the lawyer me say oh it's very interesting it's like years ago when When Vladimir Putin said hey how come you how come you you said you weren't G to move East he goes oh no no no we made a deal with the Soviet Union there is no more Soviet Union anymore I go what so anyway so then Putin says well listen say there's no more Soviet Union can I join NATO I'm not right they said oh no no no you can't do that here's my question

[23:37] this is the part that is I find what you do fascinating because every I think everybody's dream is to say do something wrong do something bad but you won't get caught unless you tell the truth but we'll let you steal Rob kill everything that you do and I love this situational ethics how Paul tibits hero the anola gay incinerated children vaporized and he is

[24:11] a nicest man wouldn't hurt a fly I'm sure and and I'm thinking how do we I'm not going to go into various theaters of War around the world I love the idea of what is a psychopath a psychopath is somebody who doesn't appreciate consequences somebody who's but but we are institutionalizing them we are creating sociopaths by saying we're going to absolve you of that guilt component you're not going to feel it will do that you just if if if you're not g to do it somebody else will okay and I'm young and I've you know and

[24:43] you give me a and I'm a cool guy and I'm a it's I don't know who's playing whom is Cia playing you the agent or are you playing the target it fascinates me yeah I have to agree with you I've said this many times on podcast but I think it Bears repeating here a CIA psychiatrist once told me that the CIA actively seeks to hire people who have sociopathic tendencies not sociopaths because of course they're they're impossible to control they have no conscience they

[25:14] they just blow right through a polygraph exam but people with sociopathic tendencies will break the law will operate in lural uh legal and moral gray areas because we're the good guys the problem is just like in any Fortune 500 company the sociopath is going to slip through the cracks and because that person is willing to make his career by stepping on the backs of the people around him right the sociopath makes it to the top of the ladder so it's hard see I think

[25:45] sometimes in a weird way a sociopath is kind of like a like a bad uh uh label a couple questions more and then I thank you so much for being with me I know you've got you you you're very very busy not me mind you but you are recently recently they were saying the JFK files they're going to they're going to get they're going to release the files I said schmuck they didn't write down anything on the files I can tell you if there's anything in the there's no box Pam Bondi remember a naked gun when lety Neil say says hey look at this

[26:17] the lab results from the what he went to the chair he was they don't have Pam Bond's not in her off he goes hey a maner Carano look at this bullet Kennedy's brain I know what are you what are you it's not there another thing too is I think there is no CIA I imagine somebody who comes to you and says who do you work for I don't know who pays you I don't know I'm not on the I don't pull into Langley with my my fob they don't know who I am there is no CIA NSA

[26:47] remember the NSA was everybody was talking about that now we don't even talking about there was no such thing as the N no such agency so what I'm saying is when you see this JFK files UFO files CIA don't you think to yourself oh would you people do you not learn what's your reaction and who killed him I have to agree they're not gonna document that they killed him I honestly have come to believe that there were elements of the CIA from the Allen Dulles days that

[27:19] hated JFK so much because he had refused to provide air cover for the Bay of Pigs invasion that they got it pick listen but pick your reason Bobby Kennedy Carlos Marell won to Bobby Kennedy here's how I think it happened very yes he did yes he did here's here's the way it happened very quickly you and I are I don't know who we are I'm I'm clay banister whoever I'm Alan Dallas and I say you know um you know John I I too

[27:49] too bad we have this problem let's face it if we didn't have this problem and you'll say and nobody's writing that down no I'm leaving It's like because I didn't stop you and then all of a sudden I pick up the phone and I talked to my guy I remember post World War II OSS Carlos marello G veto genoves a great gave us siisy ran more Ops than anybody else for years Johnny relli all the I'll bet you anything remember this

[28:21] guy Lucien s if he says listen I know this guy from Marseilles they're real good we bring him in from Mexico they don't speak English go and stop him who are you I don't know who you are I a who is this I don't even know who I'm going to hit I have a frangible bullet I like it I wait 10 days later I hang around I leave if he's caught We're not gonna get some Marine op somebody says hey isn't that Uncle Dave there at the grassy no what's exactly and it's and then you sit back and you let

[28:53] everybody start talking about it and meanwhile everybody's got you've got one who says it's m Wallace LBJ uh Posner says no it was somebody said it was the driver it was it was a Jackie Kennedy so isn't that the easy part isn't it wasn't it probably something like this and next thing you know plans got made I think I think you've hit it on the head and I'll tell you what I'm genuinely dying to see what the RFK and

[29:25] the MLK files look like especially ml K I think the FBI killed him and and RFK they recovered one more bullet than Siran San's gun Eugene Eugene Caesar or something also they they found powder deposition at the back of his head and and Siran San is across the room that's right and I saw a video that showed Caesar pulling a gun out of his waistband you hear bang bang bang bang and he put it back in and and a couple of reporters from I think

[29:57] it was the national GE graphic Channel caught up with him before he died and said did you kill Robert Kennedy and he said no I was going to but that aab fella got him first well somebody had to fire the extra shots if ever there was a case when if somebody could come to me John kiraku and say uh MK Ultra or MLK Ultra but but if ever there was it would be Mark David Chapman with lenon because because Hoover hated him and also when sir hand

[30:28] said I I did what yeah you killed him why what do you mean why because of the of the Jordanian we I didn't have any beef with but Bobby Kennedy now this is this is same thing with Jack Ruby Jack Ruby they were gonna use the thing with Jack Ruby yes yes nobody's ever explained that and then oh he got cancer and died three years later Fest cancer anybody's ever seen and the individual who was part of mkl and also who worked

[30:59] with uh with got Le and others his specialty was I can turn a normal person into a babbling psycho just let me talk to him and Jack Ruby went from Jack Ruby said I think I can talk to you to yeah so anyway we're just throwing this out bottom line John kiraku first of all thank you you are thank you immensely uh just I don't want to say entertaining because what you've been through I always gotta ask this question

[31:30] was it worth it had to go back yeah yeah it was totally worth it you know and I I'll tell you why specifically it was worth it six weeks before I left prison I called my wife I was able to um to talk to my wife every other day for 15 minutes so I called her and I said how was your day and she said it was great and I said really great why was it so great and she said because the torture report was released today and it proved that everything you said was the

[32:02] truth and she said that John McCain had gotten up on the floor of the Senate and said that the country owed me a debt of gratitude yes because if I had never said anything they wouldn't have had any idea what the government was doing in their name and now torture is banned and I'm proud that I played even a small role in that I'm not a religious person at all but I have this fantasy that God one day says to you you know John the stuff that I gave you that you thought

[32:32] you wanted that's the stuff that killed you the stuff that you never the stuff that you thought well that didn't turn out that's how I helped you it's the opposite of what you think you know the the thing that which is so interesting and again I promise you I'll let to go please I promise I I that supposedly there was a story of the fellow who interrogated Saddam Hussein and by the way we never saw any pictures of his execution actually that funny I kind of like that that grainy yeah that's it that that iPhone

[33:05] video yeah this is we need to verify this because there you there's object permanence that people will imagine all kind same thing with h with Bin Laden but I digress but anyway the the story was never forget this the the interrogator for Ben Lan says that when he stood up when he walked in he stood up and he showed respect he said stand up this is the the leader of whatever it is yeah and he had some cookies Plum or something cookies that his wife his wife

[33:36] was Iraqi or something he says would you care for the he goes and he remembered him when he was a kid and he showed him respect and what he did was he said same thing with hostage negotiation they don't understand your position do they they don't understand they think you're a bad guy but you're not because remember when Sadam said if you get rid of me you're going to need seven of me so you show empathy it's psych it's always trying to out

[34:08] understand to be empath anywhere and that's why the FBI is so good at interrogations they've been doing it since the nurmberg trials are they good guys are they good guys no they're mostly they're some of them are are good guys I I worked with a with a whole team of of really great FBI agents in Pakistan really awesome guys um but but here in DC forget it uh but they are very very good at interrogations because they've been trained to build rapport to

[34:40] establish a relationship you know you have a CI guy he said to me one time the CIA guy he said I'm gonna I'm gonna cut off his balls and shove him down his throat I said no you're not you're gonna make him a cup of tea and you're gonna ask him about his children like what's wrong with you you're G to cut off his balls and shove them down his throat and also FBI's good at it so the bottom line is are there good guys is the FBI good CIA good because we do need the CIA John there are people out there who do want to hurt us and I and and they don't give

[35:10] a damn who and I'm here in Manhattan and every time I drive through the Lincoln or the Holland Tunnel I think you know it wouldn't take long yeah I just thank I I hope to God somebody out there is uh is doing this I'm also very afraid and I promise you I'll leave you with this I I I'm I'm very afraid of how sometimes and I don't want to get into Political discussions but when you see we live here see John we live here we have this body of water and this body of water and we're pretty much we all speak the same

[35:40] language we don't have tribes we don't have we weren't put together Cobble together so when you go in and you've got people who can't even pronounce the name houth they don't even know anybody and you've got people who feel a conviction about something with a a a a a ferocity that we cannot possibly understand and you start mixing and matching and doing things I'm thinking oh dear God you are you're basically going up to two billion people and

[36:11] you're going like this yes and you're saying everything you heard about the West is correct yes and I'm thinking what do you do do because it doesn't take a lot to cause a lot of damage it's true I'm always amazed or during the course of my career I was always always amazed at how such important highlevel people knew so little about history isn't that the whatever that oh God the

[36:42] name yeah yeah there's that the dichotomy of yeah uhuh well I never forget this one time I uh had an old trial lawyer turn to me one time he said well falls in the biggest Heap and I said what the hell does that mean but I but I've always used it to go okay that sense John kyaku I'm I'm going to put all your Bona feay where are you what are you doing where can we see you what projects uh let the world know what you are doing I have um a TV show on an online platform called unified

[37:13] television it's un NY d.t the show is called CIA to classified we talk about major world events and then explain them using Declassified original CIA documents um I've got two podcasts on YouTube one is called deep program the other is deep focus with John kyaku um I've got a substack John kyaku everything I do I put on the substack and I am starting in a couple of weeks not starting but restarting uh 100 speech Around the World trip uh this is

[37:45] going to be in Scotland and Northern England uh between May 3d and May 17th uh that's at tigers Lan studios.com I'm going to get all of from our mutual friend your Handler you know who she is your Handler I always go to her I always go to a safe house I have to drop something underneath to to give you a message it's very interesting and U but it is always a pleasure and and I'll tell you pleasure mine thank you the thing that I love about you very and

[38:16] then that I promise you we go every you never try to impress me with you you always try to tell me the fact and we become impressed by virtue of what you say I'm not going to mention any names but there are so many people who are so oh what's the word full of on all of these shows everybody's a rough and Tumbl and covered in tat and I I'm thinking to myself you know I'm not buying this give me the person who's

[38:46] just I man may I may I close with just one little story I knew that would pull you in you did you pulled me in and I'm going to prove you right here uh when Tucker Carlson was on Fox News I used to go on his show all the time anytime the agency was in the news I'd go on and just take a swipe and that's why he's no longer on the air because of you but L know probably it's probably true so I go up there one night to to go

[39:16] on the show and I'm in the green room and there's another guy in The Green Room um and he says to me uh you go on Tucker and I said yeah you and he said yeah he says whatat are you talking about I said I was in the CIA I'm going to talk about the CIA oh he says me too I said oh this the first question any CIA person asks another CIA person what directorate were you in and he says Ops well a CIA person wouldn't really say Ops you'd say do the director of operations but that's okay I I'll let

[39:48] that one go so I asked him the normal obvious follow-up question what division were you in if somebody asked me I said I was in CTC the counter terrorist Center so I said to him what division were you in and he said I did Black Ops wws and I was like Oh wrong answer buddy yeah wrong answer so I go on the show first we talk for a few minutes and then we go to Commercial and I you said to

[40:21] Tucker listen I said I I think that guy's a fake and he said what do you mean a fake and I said Tucker he doesn't know the lingo he's using lingo from movies about the CIA CIA people don't talk that way he said oh he said do me a favor and call the producer and tell her so I did they stopped inviting the guy on about six months later I see an article in the Washington Post saying that he's been arrested and charged with mortgage

[40:53] fraud because he went to a bank and said yeah I need a million uh mortgage uh I can't give you any pay lips because uh you know it's wet work deep deep cover Black Ops wet work yeah and they're like oh tell you and and they just gave him a million dollars I know and then he couldn't pay the mortgage because he made the whole thing up and he ended up going to prison for six years the stories that are there there's a fellow whom I love his name is Don Shipley and he does he was a Navy

[41:25] SEAL he has a YouTube channel buds and he took it upon himself he has a list of all of the Navy Seals from 1943 up until now I've heard about that he is the greatest so it always works like this Mr Shipley yeah my name is I hired this guy he says he's an a you know this ain't working out he says okay well put him on the phone with us and it works like this he says hey shipmate hey he goes you're an AB SE yeah he says what buds class and then we go into what buds class were you what's a drer we goes but no that

[41:56] buds class was 1938 and they and my question is do you know how demented you have to be it's one thing to be a con man but something will do it for free the delusions I that that you talk about a psycho I mean this is and to be caught and they'll have tattoos and tri oh yeah well the same they'll put in their Wills that they want their Purple Heart to be next to the coffin when they never served in the military let alone got a

[42:26] purple heart final I'm sorry I keep lying I swear to God imagine how many young men in a bar guy just graduates from school he says I don't have a story there's a nice young lady there I want to what do I say imagine if you could say hi what do you do well I'm retired from what that's a long story what you're not gonna believe it no tell me I was with a CIA I you've got the great and how many people say Ro yeah Ro yeah

[42:59] sure no no seriously right let me tell you something kiraku don't stop that me I swear to God somebody must have said to you a couple of times you got to do better than that my friend and then somebody says you got a phone handy yeah just look and Google yeah Google google.com exactly John kyaku let us promise me we'll do this again I've got,000 additional uh anything I can ever do for you let me whatever that is any W Works Black Ops any kind of explosive

[43:31] you just let me know because I'm I'm my job is so secret even I don't know what it is anyway John thank you thank you my friend all the best bye bye
