Title: CIA Whistleblower John Kiriakou EXPOSES Truths About 911, JFK, and Middle East!
Show: WiseNuts
Date: 2025-09-11
URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fOKjdGGHQ4
Duration: 1:53:05

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[00:00] In that year before 9/11 at the CIA, we were panicstricken because we knew a major attack was coming and we had no idea when it would. I I blew the whistle on the CIA's torture program in 2007. Oh, you go to prison, everybody's innocent. Yeah, you know what? A lot of people are innocent. The intent was not to go to war with Afghanistan. What was the intent? >> The intent was to destroy al-Qaeda. And correct me if I'm wrong, the Palestinians welcomed the Israelis or the Jews, the European Jews, the

[00:30] Ashkenazi Jews with open arms, as in come here. This is a safe haven for you. >> That's exactly right. And then the Nakba took place. If you're in government, especially if you're in intelligence, you know from the get-go, the Israelis are no friends of ours. President Trump released the rest of the JFK documents. He released most of them. And I said, "Well, why didn't he release all of them?" and he said, "Because the ones that are still classified point the finger right at the Israelis." [Music]

[01:02] What is up everybody? Welcome back to the Wise Nuts podcast channel. Uh we want to thank every single one of you who are tuning in today and uh for all the support that you've been showing us for the past couple months now. Our channel's growing and if you haven't, we're about 5 seconds in. Click that like button, subscribe to our channel. It helps us grow and it helps us bring amazing guests to the podcast where we could sit down, have great conversations. And we have one hell of a conversation that we're going to be taking place today with one heck of a guest as well. >> Yeah, for sure. And don't and don't

[01:33] forget to comment as well because when you guys comment, you get to engage with one another. It helps the algorithms like Orno mentioned, it increases the views and in return, we can bring on bigger and bigger guests. >> We grow. We all grow together at the end of the day. But uh all the way from the other side of the United States, Mr. John Kiryaku is here with us. >> Thanks for having me. >> How was the flight in? >> Tough, >> was it? >> You know, no big deal. I I don't mind getting up early. It What I hate are

[02:04] unnecessary delays and the first half was easy as pie. The second half you're just sitting there. >> Yeah. I know you mentioned something about sitting on the tarmac and they're waiting on literally a mesh that was >> a mesh net >> that that had to be replaced. >> Yeah. For over an hour. Like where are they going to find a mesh net? >> But the best part of it is they gave him half a can of Coke in the airplane >> and we gave him two two cans of cans of Coke. >> Yeah. >> Coca-Cola sponsorship. You know, I was

[02:36] thinking today actually, how many thousands of miles have you flown? Let's say in the last 20, 30 years. >> Oh my god. I can tell you in the 9 months after 9/11, I flew a million miles. And it took me 15 years to use up those miles. Yeah. I went on my honeymoon, first class to Argentina. I was burning miles all the time because you're traveling all around the world. I went to 72 countries. most of them right after 911.

[03:06] >> And so, you know what? An old-timer told me back in the 90s, he said, "Uh, you know, they got these things now, these, uh, frequent flyer miles." I said, "Yeah, I heard about these, right?" And he says, "Uh, you should, uh, sign up for them for all the airlines." I said, "Why? We're not allowed to keep the miles." Cuz back then the rule was that the CIA owned the miles, >> right? So, they got to use the free tickets. And he said, "They're going to change that rule. That's a stupid rule. it's inevitable that they're going to change it. So, I started I I signed up for all the airlines and started

[03:39] accumulating miles, never used them, and sure enough, right before 911, they changed the rules. They said, "Ah, everybody can keep their miles." >> A million miles, >> they sent me They sent me like a a platinum. It wasn't platinum. It was black a black card in a wooden box >> cuz I was like premium diamond special status. Every time I got on the plane, I'd get upgraded to first class and that only lasted a couple of years, but yeah, >> still it was pretty nice. >> When did you get out of jail, Jonah?

[04:10] >> Uh, February 3rd of 2015. >> And for for those of for those of you tuning in or the guests or the viewers that are watching this, can we go back in time very quickly and just very very quickly just dabble on what was the reason why you went to jail? >> Yeah. So, I went to I I blew the whistle on the CIA's torture program in 2007. Patently illegal, besides being immoral and unethical, I went public, blew the whistle on it. I so enraged the CIA's

[04:45] leadership that they they reported me to the FBI for revealing classified information. This was December of 2007. The FBI investigated me until December of 2008 and then they concluded I had not committed a crime. They closed the case. Three weeks later, Barack Obama becomes president. John Brennan John and I have always hated each other. John Brennan becomes the deputy national security adviser for counterterrorism, later CIA director. John asks the

[05:16] Justice Department to secretly reopen the case against me. And so they investigated me for three more years. I had no idea. But wait, the case was closed though. It's >> closed. >> So, double jeopardy? >> No, because I was never charged. If I had been charged and then they elected to not prosecute, that would have been double jeopardy. >> So, I had no idea. My phones were tapped. My emails were being intercepted. Teams of FBI agents are following me everywhere I was going. Into church, into my kids

[05:49] school to drop them off, Target, restaurants with my family. We always had teams of FBI agents on us that we never paid attention to. And then they charged me with five felonies in January of 2012, including three counts of espionage. I hadn't committed espionage, of course. What's the definition of espionage? >> It's very simple. It's providing national defense information to any person not entitled to receive it. >> So, how was that espionage >> exactly? How is that espionage? I went

[06:20] on ABC News. I said the CIA is torturing its prisoners. Oh, espionage. That's that's not [ __ ] espionage. >> Unless it's not CIA agents who are torturing, it's somebody else who's torturing and >> right, >> you're giving intellect. But you would think that the that the definition of espionage that we all know, you know, providing classified information to a foreign government, that's espionage. What Biden did with Ukraine and China is espionage. No, allegedly providing >> Thank god you said allegedly. >> You could you could make that argument.

[06:50] Um, but anyway, what they did is they they waited until I went bankrupt. Before we started filming, we were having a conversation about legal fees and I ran up about a million and a quarter in legal fees. I went bankrupt and then they dropped all the espionage charges. So, they said, "Well, take a take a guilty plea to a lesser offense and and we'll just close the case." So, I decided not to. I decided to turn it down. and they finally gave me what they

[07:23] called their best and final offer. They were they were trying to get me to accept 45 years in prison. I said, "I'm not going to do 45 minutes. I'm going to fight you to the bitter end." And then they came down to 10 and then to 8 and then to five. And my lead attorney said, "You know, I've been an attorney in Washington for 52 years and I've never seen them come down in time." I said, "Why are why are they coming down?" He said, "Well, usually they'll offer you 10 and if you say no, the next offer is

[07:54] 15 and then 20." So I said, "Why are they coming down?" He said, "Because they have a [ __ ] case and they know it's [ __ ] and that's why we're going to trial." Well, I believed him. We're going to trial. We're going to fight this thing. So they they make a best and final offer. 2 and 1/2 years. I do 23 months >> from 20 to 2 and 1/2. >> From 45 to 2 and 1/2. So, so, so from 45 to 2 and 1/2 years. >> And I said, "No, I'm not doing it." I said, "I didn't do

[08:25] anything wrong. I'm going to fight you." So, I emailed the lawyer 6:00 in the morning. I said, "I I've been up all night with my wife. We're talking about, you know, what we should do. I didn't do anything wrong. I'm going to trial." And one of the attorneys says, "Put on a pot of coffee. We're on our way over." So, they get to my house 7:00 in the morning. and the one that was an an attorney for 52 years, he was the first one through the door and he says, "You stupid son of a [ __ ] Take the deal." I said, "You're the one who told me not to take the deal." He said, "I only said

[08:56] that to keep your morale up." So the other ones, there were four like lead attorneys. I had 11 attorneys altogether. This was a major national security case. Like every time there was a development, it'd be on the front page of the Washington Post, the front page of the New York Times. people are writing editorials about it. So, uh the second lawyer who was a real like southern gentleman, beautifully dressed all the time, just a lovely guy, he he says to me, "Look, if if you were my brother, I would beg you

[09:29] to take this deal. Just take the deal." And I said, "But I didn't do anything wrong. And I have five kids. I can't just like go to prison just like that and just walk away from everybody and let them fend for themselves. And then the third attorney pulls me aside and he was a little bit angry and I actually liked and respected him the most and he said, "You know what your problem is? Your problem is you think this is about justice and it's not about justice. It's about mitigating damage.

[10:00] Take the deal." So I said, "Well, if I don't take the deal and I'm found guilty, what am I realistically looking at?" And they said, "12 to 18 years. Take the deal." So I took it. And I I say all the time, you know, there's this ongoing joke. Everybody knows this joke that, oh, you go to prison, everybody's innocent. Yeah. You know what? A lot of people are innocent. But the government does this thing. They do two things strategies called one's

[10:31] called charge stacking where let's say you actually did something right. They won't charge you just with one thing. They'll charge you with 20 felonies and they'll wait until you go bankrupt and then they say, "All right, we'll dismiss 19 of them if you take a guilty plea." Well, maybe you actually didn't do it, but you're looking at a hundred years in prison. And you know the old saying that that an a jury will will convict a bologn sandwich if the bologn sandwich

[11:04] is on trial, right? People say all the time, "Well, if they were innocent, the cops wouldn't have arrested them in the first place." That's not the system we have. The system that we have is that you're innocent until proven guilty. >> Correct. >> Not when you're facing the government. And that is why the government wins 98.2% of their cases. You can't afford to fight the government. That's the difference. >> It's not. That's true. But it's not only that. For example, in healthcare, you work with the government, right? If you're >> being paid by Medicare, Medicaid, medic,

[11:36] whoever, technically you work for the government. >> Sure. >> Not like a contractor. >> Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. >> And their approach, and I've asked them this. I've asked several people who work for CMS. I said, "So, we as providers of Medicare are guilty until proven innocent." >> Absolutely. >> You're like, "Unfortunately, >> that's what it comes down to." >> I said, "How?" I thought we're innocent till proven guilty. But with anything related to government, you're not. >> You know, I had this judge in my case, too. This little tiny [ __ ] she's like

[12:08] 4 foot 10, and she was a Clinton appointee. M >> and uh my my attorneys, here's how good my attorneys were. They negotiated something called an 11C1C plea. Um which means it it's written in stone and the judge can't change it. So I agreed to plead guilty. The government agreed to 30 months. I do 23 11 C1C. The judge

[12:39] when I went to my sentencing, she said, "I've been a judge for years and I have never seen an 11C1C plea. This is my first one," she says. And she looks at me and she says, "I don't like it. And I don't like it one bit. I wish I could give you 10 years," she says. Well, the truth is she could have. All she had to do is say, "No, I don't I don't respect the 11c plea. go back to the negotiating table, come up with something else.

[13:09] That's all she had to say. But every national security journalist in America was in the courtroom that day to see what I was going to get. And so she had to make it look like she was tough and she was going to stand up. Okay, that was that was October of 2012. There are others who have come after me. Jeffrey Sterling, CIA whistleblower. Uh Daniel um what's Daniel's last name? Uh um anyway, the drone whistleblower, Daniel Hail, the drone whistleblower and

[13:40] and others, Ed Snowden. And so I'll give you an example. I was in I was in Daniel Hail's sentencing hearing and the Justice Department didn't see that I was sitting directly behind them in the first row with an NSA whistleblower, Tom Drake. We all stick together. We have a community now, right? So Daniel went to trial, which was very, very brave. And he's the one that said that we were killing civilians with

[14:12] drones. And the reason why he decided to blow the whistle, I'll give you just as a little bit of background. It's a very sad story. You know, we operate these drones are the the Air Force, the Army, the CIA, whoever, whoever has drones, they operate them mostly from here, right? you're you're in some office building in outside of Las Vegas or at at some air base in Florida or whatever and it's all by computer, right? And you're guiding these these drones in Afghanistan or Somalia or Iraq or wherever they happen to be. So Daniel's

[14:44] following this alleged terrorist in in a car and the guy pulls the car over and gets out of the car and Daniel's on the secure comms with his boss who's at McDill Air Force Base in in Tampa. And he says, "I I see the target." And the boss says, "Fire." And he said, "Wait a minute. There are two little kids with him." And the boss says, "Those aren't kids. Those are goats. He said, "I'm looking at them. They're two

[15:16] little girls." And the guy says, "Fire." And Daniel says, "I can't fire. He's with two little kids." And the guy says, "Fire or be court marshaled." >> This is straight up from the movie Scarface. >> Yeah, it's terrible. And so he fired. >> Are you kidding me? >> And he killed them. And he went home. He told me that that that he went home that day and he told his housemate, "I became a child killer today. You've seen the movie Scarface, right? >> Yes, I have. >> Just want to make sure because he hasn't

[15:46] se We'll we'll get to the Matrix later. It's a powerful movie >> because in the movie Scar literally what you're telling me with Daniel is exactly what was happening with >> uh Tony. >> Yeah. >> Or where he had to blow up that car. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Where the two kids were in the car. >> Kids were in the car >> and he couldn't pull the trigger where he obviously killed the uh >> Yeah. >> the guy who had the trigger with him. That's right. >> Wow. >> So, so I'm in the I'm in the gallery. I'm one row behind the prosecutors

[16:20] and uh and Daniel's found guilty of of telling The Intercept and a a a documentary filmmaker on PBS that we've got a drone program and we kill civilians with the drone program. They were like, "Ah, classified. You can't say that. You're under arrest." So the justice department says, "Your honor, we we're asking that you sentence him to 10 years." And the this is a different judge, kind of a a wise, you know, older

[16:51] judge who saw what the Justice Department was doing here. And u the judge says, "I I can't give him 10 years." When Kiryaku got two and a half, he said, "I'll give you Kiryaku." or the the pro the the defense said, "How about Kiryaku plus 12 months because I took a plea, he went to trial and you're punished if you go to trial, right? It's called failure to accept responsibility." So, they increase your sentence if you go if you exercise your

[17:22] constitutional right >> cuz you're fighting the system. That's why. >> That's right. And they make you pay. >> So, the Justice Department's like, "No, no. Um, Sterling got Kuryaku plus 12. It's going to have to be Kiryaku plus, you know, 60. And And I'm sitting right there and this Washington Post reporter looks at me and he says, "What do you make of this?" I said, "He's going to get screwed. He's going to get screwed." And the judge is like, "Enough enough of this talk." He says, "I'm going to do" and the judge didn't know me. He He didn't recognize

[17:53] me, but he says, "I'll do Kuryaku plus 24." And then I I went up to Daniel afterwards and uh he was distraught as you might imagine and I said, "Buddy," I said, "This was a major victory for you." I said, "What they're not telling you, and this is what I learned in prison, is that um you're entitled to 10 to 15% of your time off for good behavior. You're entitled to up to 10% of your time in a

[18:25] halfway house or home confinement. And if you tell them that you have a drug or alcohol problem, they'll send you they'll send you to something called ARDAP, the residential drug and alcohol program. You get another 12 months off. So I said, "Don't worry, you're not going to be in prison for 4 and a half years." >> Yeah. >> And sure enough, he got out at around two. >> There's no There's no How long >> were you in prison? >> I was in for 23 months. >> But you actually You did the full 23. >> I did every day of it. They [ __ ] me at

[18:57] every opportunity. And I told them, I said, "Listen, I have lived in far worse places than your prison in Lorettto, Pennsylvania. So, it's not like you guys are intimidating me in any way." >> See, John, I want to know this. Why is it that you, as the whistleblower, were sentenced to 23 months in jail? >> Yep. >> For whistleblowing. Yep. >> But the individuals who made the who called the shots, >> there it is right there, >> are serving nothing at all. >> No. And in fact, they all literally all of them went on to multi-million dollar

[19:28] book deals. >> Oh, really? The book deals? Huh? That's where it was. >> My my big complaint uh to answer your question specifically is that we have a whistleblower protection law in the United States, but national security whistleblowers are not protected by it. So, if you work for the CIA, the FBI, Pentagon, NSA, you're screwed. I mentioned Tom Drake a minute ago. >> Yes. >> Tom uh was was one of the early whistleblowers. Uh right after 911, he

[20:00] blew the whistle on um on a a program at NSA that NSA instituted that started collecting the communications of American citizens, which was against the law. And um they charged him with nine felonies, seven counts of espionage, two counts of theft of government property. You know what the property was? It was the information. He walked out of the building with the information in his head. >> How many counts for >> Seven counts of espionage and two counts

[20:32] of theft? >> For government theft. >> Yeah. He >> all because it was in his head. >> He stole the information. It was in his head and he walked out of the building with it. >> Nice. Right. So, get this. Um they they raid his house. They take all of his um electronics, everything, and then they go to his wife, who's also at NSA, and they say, "We're raiding your house and arresting your husband right now as we speak. You're either with him

[21:04] or you're with us and she was with them." >> So, they gave her an ultimatum. >> And that's totally legal, right? >> Absolutely. So, he plead not guilty and he fought it and fought it and fought it. Why did he fight it? Because what they teach us to do is if you see waste, fraud, abuse, illegality, or threats to the public health or public safety, that's the definition of whistleblowing. First, you go to your boss. Tom went to his boss. Boss told him, "Buddy, this is this is way above your pay grade. You

[21:35] need to walk away." Then he went to the uh general counsel and the general counsel said, "This is none of your business. You need to stop." Then he went to the inspector general. The inspector general wasn't read into the compartment. So the inspector general said, "I don't know what you're talking about." Then he went to the Pentagon inspector general because NSA is a DoD um agency. They ratted him out to the NSA leadership and said, "Hey, you have a loose cannon. This guy's out talking to

[22:07] people about this program." Then he went to the House Intelligence Committee, which is the oversight committee, and said they're committing illegalities. They grab him and charge him with nine felonies. He was facing 90 years in prison. And so, literally the night before the trial began, the case fell apart and they had to drop all the charges because he hadn't committed espionage. How so how does the whole um whistleblower protection law play into

[22:39] this? Because you know in 1778 that law was passed after the >> first whistleblow incident in 1777 right against the right same situation as yours where the uh >> British um prisoners of wars Yes. were being tortured >> were being tortured. Well, if you work for the Department of Agriculture >> Mhm. >> or the Department of Labor or the, you know, Federal Trade Commission, God bless, you're fully protected. You go to Senator Grassly or, you know, or

[23:12] Congressman Jordan, you fill out the form, they say, "Oh my god, you're being discriminated against. We're going to protect your job." If you work for the intelligence community, you're screwed. There's literally nothing that you can do to protect yourself. I met with a guy yesterday. I'm not going to say who he is. Yesterday was a Saturday and an attorney reached out to me and said, "Look, I represent an intelligence community whistleblower. He's scared to death and he just needs to talk to

[23:42] somebody." I said, "Done." So, we met in one of these like office buildings where you rent a conference room by the hour, you know? I was there for three and a half hours and I just let the guy vent and he came with thousands of pages of documents. He's laying out the case. I said, "Buddy, you don't have to convince me of the case. I know that you're telling the truth. I know it. You don't have to convince me, but uh he said, "I just I need somebody to talk to because I feel like I'm going

[24:13] crazy." And I said, 'Yeah, you're going to feel like you go cra like you're going crazy, but rely on your attorneys and cultivate friendly voices in the media. And I said, if you have an opening to Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa, talk to Grassly. He's a friendly ear. Otherwise, don't trust anybody because the FBI knows what you're doing most likely, and they're going to try to get you to implicate yourself. I said, '

[24:44] Even talking to me is a risk. He and I had never met. You know, I could be an FBI agent undercover. I mean, of course, I'm not. I'm I'm sort of a public figure, but I said, don't talk to anybody without your lawyer sitting in the chair next to you. >> Have you been involved in a car accident? Don't face the aftermath alone. Arman Gregorian is your personal injury attorney who specializes in car accidents. He'll fight for compensation that you deserve. Call Arman Gregorian now at 818-44333.

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[25:51] >> The CIA was founded in 1947. >> Mhm. With the passage of the National Security Act of 194 >> and they replaced the OSS. >> Correct. >> So what was the purpose behind replacing the OSS? It was like there there was >> you had a central intelligence agency >> at the time. Why replace it and officially call it the central intelligence? >> OSS was the office of strategic services. Correct. So what it did for the most part was it it parachuted Americans behind German lines in the

[26:22] second world war. So what they did is for example I'm Greek American. A lot of early OSS guys were Greek Americans who spoke Greek. They would parachute behind Nazi lines into Greece, speak Greek, look like Greeks, and then, you know, blow up bridges and stuff so that the Nazis couldn't get their supplies. So, it was Greeks and Italians and a lot of German Jews. So, they were Jews who spoke German but could pass as German citizens. Yeah. >> And it was mostly um sabotage.

[26:52] >> So, after 1945, all of a sudden with the dropping of the two atomic bombs, we're a superpower. We had never been a superpower before. And the British convinced President Truman, you need a serious intelligence service. You don't have one. OSS essentially ceased to exist once the war ended. Everybody just went back to Wall Street and they went back to their law firms and their jobs that they were doing. And so, um,

[27:23] so Truman asked the British, um, MI6 station chief in New York, it's funny, he wasn't even in Washington, he was in New York, to help us create this organization that's going to be the central repository for all analysis and operations. We're going to call it the Central Intelligence Agency. There was serious push back by Jay Edgar Hoover at the FBI and um Hoover said uh we don't need any CIA. I can be the head of both

[27:55] the FBI and the CIA. CIA should be part of the FBI. and Hoover started going to Capitol Hill to try to to convince important members of Congress to vote against this National Security Act which also created um the National Security Council. So Truman told a lie which was very important historically. He called Hoover in and he said, "You're right. We're going to create this CIA and it's going to be a

[28:25] division of the FBI, but you've got to go back to the Hill and tell everybody to vote yes. Well, there was never any intention to make the CIA an adjunct of the FBI. And so, the National Security Act of 47 was passed. Truman signed it into law. The CIA was created. Hoover was humiliated. And so the CIA and the FBI, for all intents and purposes, never cooperated between 1947 and the 9/11 attacks.

[28:56] And in 1949, Mossad was created. >> Correct. So I want to ask you this. Is it a coincidence that in 1948 you have the CIA created and then in 1949 you have MSAD created? Did they work hand in hand together or are they completely two separate different agencies? Oh, they're they're two separate agencies and we've never been as close with the Mossad as we are with say the Five Eyes, the other four partners of the Five Eyes. Uh five eyes are US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. >> Yes. >> But uh yeah, the uh the CIA and MI6 and

[29:31] by all accounts the KGB jumped in to train Mossad. Keep in mind also that Mossad was different than all these other intelligence services because the Israelis couldn't lose. If they if they were to lose, everybody dies. They're going to be pushed into the sea, right? So, they didn't have rules and laws like all these other services had. >> So, how much influence does Mossad have on the CIA and US foreign policies?

[30:02] It's not specifically the Mossad that has influence over foreign policy. It's the the Israel lobby in the form of Apac and very wealthy Jewish Americans. You know, and and that wasn't even really the case until the Nixon administration. You know, I heard something the other day from a from a history professor that I never I had never heard this before. We were talking about the founding of Israel and he said, "You know how Israel was founded?" I said, "Yeah, of course." You know, the Truman administration and

[30:33] the United Nations and blah blah. He said, "No, it was $2 million in a briefcase that was delivered to the Truman um campaign train in 1948." I said, "No, I I didn't know that." He said, "Yeah, Truman really didn't care if if European Jews had a homeland or not. That was a British problem. But 2 million in cash in a briefcase, that's going to make him interested." Truman, you can find on YouTube. Truman gave a statement that he knew that he

[31:04] was successful creating Israel when both sides came out of it hating him. But that wasn't really true. >> By both sides? What do you mean by both sides? >> The Palestinians and the Jews. >> Really? I thought it would be the opposite. I thought the Palestinians would hate him and the Jews would like him. >> They love them. >> But the but the Jews wanted all of it. They didn't want it divided, you know, into Palestine and Israel or or Palestine mandate. >> And correct me if I'm wrong, the Palestinians welcomed the Israelis or the Jews, the European Jews, the

[31:34] Ashkenazi Jews with open arms, as in come here. >> This is a safe haven for you. >> That's exactly right. And then the Nagba took place and everything changed and it's never gone back. >> And the Nagba is the Israeli Palestinian war. >> Correct. Correct. where where you know hundreds and hundreds of thousands of Palestinians fled mostly to Jordan thinking we'll regroup, we'll fight our war and we'll reclaim our land and here

[32:06] we are five generations later and they're still in Jordan. It's John. We've had this conversation with other guests before where we talk about that specific territory, that specific land. Whether you want to call it Palestine or you want to call it Israel, it doesn't matter. But when you look at the history behind it and the people who were the original settlers, the people who were there 3,000 years ago, >> right? >> Whether they were Muslim, whether they were Christian, or whether they were Jewish, >> when you talk about anti-semitism or you

[32:37] talk about the Semites themselves, right? >> Right. Right. >> If you put a Palestinian and a real Israeli or a real Jew next to one another, >> you can't tell them apart. No, you can't. >> They're the same people. >> Exactly. >> But it's the European Jews that came in. >> That's it. >> That infiltrated that land or that area. And a lot of governments, whether it's the United States government, the European government, and completely screwed everything up.

[33:08] And in fact, it's gotten even worse over the last 20 or 25 years because of this massive influx of Jews from Russia and Ukraine. So, it's pushed the Israeli electorate even further to the right. But you're you're absolutely right. It was I mean, people they hated the British, of course, because the British were the colonial power, but they got along with each other. They worked together. They all owned land and

[33:39] cultivated oranges and olives and you know >> Yeah. Now you fast forward to 2001. Bush is in office and on September 11th an attack takes place >> where two very very historic buildings collapse >> after two planes allegedly crash into the building. The owner of the building happened to have pulled out a very hefty

[34:09] insurance policy prior to the attacks. Yeah. >> A what do they call it? A terrorist uh >> terrorist clause. >> Clause. >> Yeah. Terrorist insurance is a writer. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. As Joe said, a terrorist insurance clause. >> These planes clash crash into the building. >> What was his name? Mr. Larry Silverstein. >> Silverstein. Silverstein. >> Silverstein. Silverman. Something like Silverstein. And he had asbestos throughout the building that was going to cost him billions of dollars. >> Yeah, he was. But anyways, the planes crash into the building. The

[34:40] buildings are on fire. Hundreds of thousand if not thousands of people are in scramble mode >> trying to evac evacuate the building. The fire fire department is there. At the time when the attacks took place, there was so many different stories being told on ground zero where people were talking about, I heard bombs, >> right? >> Somebody said there was no plane. I saw a missile. >> Of course, there were planes. >> But anyways, these buildings now collapse.

[35:10] Building number seven, which was not attacked at all, not hit >> that collapses and all of a sudden there's a big outbreak as far as all right, you know what? We were attacked by terrorists. It was the Saudis. It was a bunch of al-Qaeda members. We happened to have found a passport on a domestic flight, which you don't really need a passport. Fully intact by a Saudi pilot. uh we're going we're going to we're going to war with uh

[35:42] Afghanistan. But at the same time, when you go back, >> but it wasn't exactly that clear-cut, though. The intent was not to go to war with Afghanistan. >> What was the intent? >> The intent was to destroy al-Qaeda, >> which was created by who? >> Not the United States. That is a very common misconception. >> Is it? >> Yeah. cuz I' I've the stories we've heard is al-Qaeda was created by the United States and again allegedly >> uh in order to fight the Soviets. >> No, al-Qaeda came to Afghanistan after

[36:12] the US pulled out. The Soviets were already gone when al-Qaeda went to Afghanistan. The US pulled out at the end of 1987, early 1988. >> And al-Qaeda or what we used to call the the Afghan Arabs, >> some of them were already there and just remained. But al-Qaeda itself went in in the early 1990s. >> Wasn't al-Qaeda, according to your story, created by Osama bin Laden. >> Yes. >> Because

[36:42] And but Osama created al-Qaeda and they fought with the Soviets and then he also wanted to fight >> not as al-Qaeda. They fought as mujahedin. >> Oh, as mujaheden. >> Yeah. >> It was with Iraq that he wanted to fight as al-Qaeda. Is that what it was in the '9s? Because I know he had issues. Osama bin Laden had issues with Saddam Hussein. >> Yeah, he hated Saddam Hussein as much as he hated us. >> Yeah, because Saddam also uh Saddam was that that was at the period where Saddam

[37:12] wanted to attack Kuwait. >> Well, that was before al-Qaeda was founded. Saddam attacked Kuwait on on August the 2nd, 1990. >> Mhm. >> But it had nothing to do with religion or Afghanistan or the Soviet Union. It it was about oil. Yeah, >> this the Kuwaitis there's a there's a an oil field called the Romela field >> that like 98% of it it's very long and narrow it looks like Chile and 98% of it is in Iraq and just the southernmost tip of it crosses the border into Kuwait and

[37:45] the Kuwaitis were slant drilling so they went under the Iraqi border and they were stealing the oil and so they got caught the Iraqis caught And so the Iraqis uh started, you know, rattling their sabers and uh threatening the Kuwaitis. Finally, they invaded on August the second. And most everybody just assumed they're going to take that little 2% across the border and that's going to be

[38:16] the end of it. Most people didn't expect that they're going to take the whole of Kuwait and they did it in under 24 hours. But then I mean even back then Osama bin Laden was to the best of my recollection he was still in Saudi Arabia 1990 he went to Sudan. We asked the Sudinis to throw him out. He briefly went to gutter and the Clinton administration asked the guties to grab him. He was at the airport transiting and we asked him the gutteries to grab him and they said okay

[38:46] but we need charging documents. What crime has he been charged with? Well cuz we're idiots. We had never charged him with a crime. There wasn't even a grand jury that had been assembled. So, we said, "We don't have a crime." They said, "We can't just kidnap him." And so, they let him go. And he went on to Afghanistan. So, he got to Afghanistan, I'm going to say, in 95, 96, something like that. >> But there's a lot of rumors that he was also somehow linked to the CIA. Is that

[39:18] >> is there any truth to that? >> No. cuz his I think his hatred towards the US came in because he his father was a contractor who worked Oh, >> his father was was Abd Rahman bin Laden. He was one of the richest men in the world. Not just a contractor like the contractor for the whole Middle East. You want to build an airport or an interstate highway system, you went to Bin Laden Construction. >> And he was the one who built all the refineries for the California company that moved there in the 30s. >> A Ramco that became a Ramco. Yeah,

[39:49] >> the Arab American Oil Company. >> But going back to where the conversation began as far as 9/11 is concerned, >> how much US involvement was there in the tax in the attacks of 9/11? >> I honestly don't believe that there was official US involvement. >> You do you really think that we were attacked by >> Yeah, I do. Now, I can't I'm not an architect. I can't say you know building 7 I don't know control demolitions. You hear all these different things. I've also heard the Saudi royal family did it. The Bush family did it. The space

[40:21] aliens did it. Uh the Jews did it. The Israeli government did it. Everybody's got a theory. But I'm telling you, in that year before 9/11 at the CIA, we were panicstricken because we knew a major attack was coming and we had no idea when and where. >> Have you ever been to the Pentagon? >> Oh, a thousand times. Is Pentagon considered one of the, if not the most secured building in the world? >> No. >> No. You can drive right up to it >> and you can just go inside?

[40:51] >> No, you can't go inside anymore. I mean, you could before 9/11. Sure. >> There was even a barber shop there. You could just go get your haircut at the barber shop. >> But inside the Pentagon? >> Yeah. My cousin Angela was was a barber there for years, 30 years. >> But as far as like security cameras and all, did it exist during 9/11? >> Yeah. So, how come we don't have any footage of the >> Because they because they never released it. But you're also discounting the literally tens of thousands of people, including my best friend

[41:22] >> who were sitting in rush hour traffic watching that plane fly right into the side of the building. >> We haven't seen a single clip of >> because they haven't released the >> No, no. as far as like let's say from your best friend or from somebody because there's thousands of clips of the planes flying into the uh >> Yeah, there were no camera phones back then and you're not driving, you know, in rush hour like this just in case a plane flies into the side of the building. >> People were just sitting in rush hour traffic. >> There was no even debris though. >> Sure, there was plane plane parts.

[41:54] >> Sure. The plane hit the ground and skidded into the side of the building. There was debris all over the place. It took weeks to clean it up. I live in Arlington. We were down there every single day. See, >> I don't remember seeing any clips of any debris back there. >> But this is this is part of the the danger is the years pass and people forget some of the details. You know, we we latch on to these ideas or theories >> and we just forget about what it was when it was actually playing out.

[42:27] Cuz some of these when you look at a when you look at how a plane is built, a lot of it is like fiberglass and uh obviously there's >> very thin aluminum >> aluminum and >> how does something like that fly into a building and take down concrete, steel, glass? >> But do you remember though when it first hit, it actually didn't penetrate beyond the first ring. It didn't it didn't take out the building. It was that almost V-shaped hole.

[42:58] >> Yeah. >> In the first of the five rings and didn't penetrate beyond that. >> But then you look at the same plane if well if not actually more advanced recently in India that took off and then it crashed into a building. The plane was still intact. There was a lot of the plane that was still somewhat standing >> and the building didn't collapse. >> And the building didn't collapse either. And it was a much older building as well. >> Yeah. >> But all of a sudden that one plane was

[43:29] able to take down >> that steel structure. That's where the question about the World Trade Center. >> Yeah. >> I don't know. I had somebody describe it to me as as like a tin can. >> Right. If you've got a tin can and you push down on the top, it's strong. You can't smash it. If you put a little [ __ ] in the side and push down, you can smash it. But how many floors is the to How many floors is the World Trade Or like 105 or 110 something like that? >> And it wasn't like it was hit right in

[44:00] the middle. It was hit at the top. >> Yeah. >> So you're telling me that top portion was able to completely demo it to the ground. >> Like I say, I'm not an architect or engineer, but >> that was my understanding, >> you know, and you hear you you don't hear very often anymore. There was this line of of theory about thermite paint and nanoothermite and all this [ __ ] that doesn't exist that people ran with for

[44:30] years like, "Oh, they painted with explosive paint. It had thermite in it." It's like, no. >> Yeah. Yeah. Those those were a little bit over the edge. >> There was a lot of people that interviewed weeks after or years after that said, "We heard a lot of dynamites and kind of like, you know, how they um >> Yeah. I mean, how easy how would it be? How easy would it be >> to just to just >> in this chaos that's happening that day, you hear an explosion and you just assume it's dynamite?

[45:01] I mean, has there ever been any dynamite that was found or dynamite residue? No, >> it can be. Yeah. No, I look, I I completely understand what you're saying. >> Dynamite residue that we know of. I mean, who's doing the investigation at the end of the day? >> Yeah. I mean, but what what's the evidence that >> what what they want us to see, they'll allow us to see. What they don't want to see, we won't see. >> Let's let's look at the issue of the controlled demolition. >> Yeah. >> Do you know how long it would take and

[45:32] how much work it would entail to wire those buildings with explosives? And not a single person ever noticed ever that, oh, they're wiring the entire buildings to be detonated. Well, the the stories behind that were that there was a lot of construction being taking there was a lot of construction taking place >> late nights when everybody was exiting the building. So whether it was the asbestous testing that they were doing or strapping dynamite to the building,

[46:03] nobody knows. Again, these are >> I hate saying the word, these are conspiracy theories that take place where you just look back and you say, "All right, what really did happen?" and you and you ask these questions and it's it's all dialogue at the end of the day where you have this conversation with different people and you get different perspectives but obviously there are people that go to the extreme the paint that you mentioned right it's like dude all right calm down with with the whole paint >> nanoothermite paint but then at the same time you look at other things and it's logical where you're like dude please

[46:36] please explain to me how that top of the building how do you explain building was also had had a giant tank underneath it. That was the that was the emergency fuel >> and that >> uh for uh what was it NYPD or for the city of New York or whatever it is held thousands and thousands of gallons of fuel. I don't know. I'm just saying >> cuz cuz look, you've in in recent interviews you've mentioned how you think what Mossad pulled off with the whole pager bombs is probably the most

[47:07] brilliant thing ever. >> Absolutely brilliant. So you don't think for example they had the capacity to to put up some uh demolition? >> No. >> How would they do that? >> How did they pull off this whole pager thing? >> Oh, I mean there's a big difference. There's a big difference between taking 10 years to take over the supply chain than to go into the World Trade Center and start wiring it for demolition. There's huge difference. And and I I come back to what they told us in in our

[47:39] very first day of CIA analytic training. You have to lay out the evidence. It's one thing to say, "Oh, dancing Israelis." Okay. Well, what the [ __ ] that supposed to mean, dancing? Yeah, there were dancing Israelis. You know why they were dancing? Because they knew that those attacks meant we were going to start killing thousands and thousands of Muslims. That's why they were dancing. >> Yeah. There was interviews as well of individuals at ground zero where they asked them, you know, what do you think about the events that took place? And

[48:10] there were Israelis, Jewish women and men who were smiling from ear to ear saying, >> absolutely they were. And now then now the United States sees what we're we've been going through and we get it. But >> yeah, >> for them it's like >> I don't know, man. >> But again, I come back to evidence. These are all interesting theories, but you got to lay out the evidence. And and every time somebody says to me, "Oh, it was the Mossad." Somebody else says to me, "It was the Bush family or it was the Saudi royal family. They're all

[48:40] evil." Okay. Well, who So, who was it? Was it the Israelis? Was it the Saudis? Was it the Bushes? I told you the Lizard people came down and they did it. I I've actually gotten that. I heard the FBI did it. I heard the CIA did it. I'm like, "Yeah, we blew up our own building, of course." So, you believe it was Bin Laden who did it? >> Of course I do. And Bin Laden said afterwards in an interview with Al, not an interview, but it was a a tape that he sent to Al Jazzer that they wanted to wreck the American economy to lead to the collapse of the United States and

[49:10] that they were planning another attack. His words, that would dwarf 9/11. That's why we went after them like we did. We were afraid of another attack. Are you looking for a place to kick back and celebrate? Well, the Glenn Arden Club has got you covered. Upstairs, you got a private lounge with a cigar room. Downstairs, you got the Mooseen where you can have cocktails and private events. Hey, are you even hungry? They got an outside pizzeria serving one of the best pizzas in town. If you're interested in becoming a member with the

[49:41] Glenn Arden Club or booking an event, contact the Wisnuts. We'll connect you to the boys at the Glen Arden and you can become a member here or host your next gathering. You know, I guess I kind of find it hard to believe that you believe in that theory. Why? Because you yourself were convicted. Because you blew the whistle on torturing strategies of the CIA. >> Mhm. >> Yet you still believe the theory that the government has told us via the

[50:13] media. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. It's not that I believe the theory the government told us. It's that I looked at the evidence and came to my own analytic conclusion. >> I just find it very even forget about all these conspiracy theories of like well the plane just crashes into a building. I've talked to many many structural engineers a lot of them have said sure it's impossible for that building to >> Yes. But the thing is is there are an equal number of structural engineers who say those guys are just wrong. >> That's what I mean. We have to lay out

[50:43] the evidence. But how do you because I mean Osama bin Lad and yes he had a lot of money. Um but to be able to pull it off just like kind of if we compare it to what happened on October 7th which is on a much smaller scale than what took place on 911 as far as the damage that it caused. More people have been killed unfortunately um between October 7th and today >> many many more. But to believe that for instance Mossad had no idea that the that Hamas was going to attack I don't

[51:14] believe that for a second. >> So then how do you believe that al-Qaeda could have attacked or Osama bin Laden could have attacked us via airplanes and we had no idea because I listened to the intercepts. I was reading the intelligence. I was participating in these meetings saying that this massive attack is coming. We we have to figure out how to head it off. It's all based on the evidence. Do you see the CIA at the time is roughly around 50 years old?

[51:44] >> Yeah. Right. >> And 53. >> Yeah. Rough roughly. Yeah. >> And with the amount of experience that they have, how do you miss an attack like that? Do you think it was willing, it was willfully missed or do you think it was >> No. See, this is another misconception. >> Another misconception is that the United States the United States needs a propagation. Sorry, let me rephrase that. That the United States needs a provocation to go out and start killing people. Like, oh, you know, we would really like to kill lots of Muslims, so

[52:15] we should attack ourselves. That'll give us the excuse. No. If we want to kill Muslims, we just go out and kill Muslims. You don't need a provocation. A false flag? No. The Israelis do lots of false flags. We You know how complicated false flags are? How many moving parts? And you have any idea how [ __ ] [ __ ] so many people are in government? They're too stupid to make to make a false flag successful. It's just too too many moving parts. I think we have a tendency to underestimate

[52:47] incompetence in government. I really do. Plus, you know, at the time, and I'm actually glad you mentioned this because this is a good time to bring it up. At the time you had a White House that was obsessed with China, that the fight is with China, not with these these guys wearing sheets. They're no threat to us. You had George Tennant and Dick Clark, who was the national security the deputy national security adviser for counterterrorism screaming at Condi Rice that al-Qaeda is

[53:21] going to attack us. And she said, "You too again with this al-Qaeda, the threats from China, not al-Qaeda." And they wouldn't do anything. They wouldn't increase the budget. They wouldn't approve covert action programs. They wouldn't do anything because she believed, she was a terrible national security adviser and an equally bad secretary of state. She believed that the threat was from China and that these guys were idiots for trying to keep the

[53:52] CIA focused on Arabs. >> What if that was by design, John, to keep to keep them >> and then >> in the dark? >> And then who who would be the the beneficiary though? Um >> I mean condandy Rice is not this intellectual giant who's going to you know have a shadow government operating behind the actual deep state. >> Well I mean you have Apac right? You have uh you just said yourself that Israel Israel is more commonly known to

[54:24] do false flag attacks. The owner of the building was Israeli. >> Let me interrupt you on that on that score. I would agree with you as it applies to Iraq because literally on September 12th, there were prominent Jewish Americans at the White House saying, "You know, we have to attack Iraq for this, right?" Not Afghanistan. >> Iraq. Iraq. And the fact that that al-Qaeda

[54:56] hated Saddam Hussein as much as he hated us was irrelevant to them. I I'll give you another example. Um you've heard of Ahmed Chelabi, I'm sure. So Ahmed Chelabe, we have a little time. I'll tell you little story. >> So Ahmed Chel was um was very unusual in that he was a Shia Muslim Iraqi Kurd. There are like, you know, a dozen of them. I'm exaggerating, of course, but Kurds are mostly >> It's a hell of It's a hell of a mut. Yeah.

[55:26] >> Yeah, exactly. Like a mut. >> So, um, he his parents left Iraq in 1965 before the Bath party came to power. So, pre-Saddam, pre-bath, pre- everything. It was still a kingdom at the time. They moved to Jordan. and um he went to school in the UK, got uh an MBA, got a PhD, and went back to Jordan and created a bank called Petra Bank, and it catered

[55:57] to Iraqis, Iraqi immigrants and refugees. So, the bank became like the go-to place if you were Iraqi to put your savings, your retirement, you had your checking account. Well, he ended up just stealing all of it, every dollar of it. And the story is that he escaped to Syria in the trunk of his secretary's car and made his way back to London where he had this, you know, $20 million townhouse in Mayfair by Herods and, you know, lived

[56:29] happily ever after. Well, he started promoting himself as the alternative to Saddam Hussein. Why? Because he's pro-American. He's pro- British. He's pro-Israeli. And if you guys overthrow Saddam Hussein, just make me president and I'll give you anything you want. So in 1991, the CIA created this organization called the Iraqi National Congress. They created it in a hotel conference room in Vienna, Austria. And what it was

[57:00] supposed to be was representatives from like two dozen different Iraqi exile groups. Every Iraqi who ever left the country and had had a a position of import in the Iraqi government, maybe you were an ambassador, maybe you were a general, maybe you were the head of the intelligence service and then you fled. You made your own little group and it was in London or Brussels or Geneva or whatever. They all came together in Vienna and they all made up this group that the CIA created and funded called the Iraqi National Congress. And we

[57:32] named Ahmed Talib, the director, the president of the Iraqi National Congress. King Hussein says, "Oh, no you don't. This guy was sentenced to death in Jordan for stealing all the money from Petro Bank. There are thousands of Iraqi refugees who are destitute now because he stole their money." So the CIA said, "Okay, how about if he gives most of the money back and then you guys drop the death penalty charge against him." The Jordanians didn't like that, but we

[58:03] sweeten the deal a little bit and okay, fine. They they back off the case against Chelaby. So the CIA begins to fund Chelby and the Iraqi National Congress, 1991. And then we notice very quickly that all the money starts disappearing and that Chel's wearing $5,000 suits and he's driving a Maybach and he has a new house in Geneva and he has a new house in Washington and we're like, "What the [ __ ] are you doing?" So the CIA issues what's called a burn notice on him. That's literally

[58:35] everybody in the CIA gets an email or a cable that says, "You are not permitted to do business with this Ahmed Chalabi. He's burned. He's dead to us. Okay, fast forward to 2001. 9/11 happens. Dick Cheney says the Iraqis did it. We said the Iraqis didn't do it. Al-Qaeda did it. No, al-Qaeda did it partnering with the Iraqis. We're like, what do you base that on? You can't just make [ __ ] up and then make create foreign policy based on, you

[59:07] know, your fantasies. >> Well, remember, we're talking about a wararmongering Dick Cheney here. >> Exactly. And so, so Dick Cheney ordered us to start talking to Ahmed Chelby. We said, "No, we're not going to do it. We burned him 9 years ago because he's a liar and he's a thief." But he's westernized. Yeah. The CIA had enough. We lost millions and millions of dollars that went right into Chalabe's pocket. So, here's what happened. Cheney creates a new position at the Pentagon

[59:38] called Under Secretary for Intelligence. And we said, "You don't need an under secretary for intelligence because you have the Defense Intelligence Agency that handles your intelligence and we work with them." Nope. We're going to have a new position under secretary of intelligence. And then we start receiving at the CIA these cables called DODIRS, Department of Defense Intelligence Reports. I'll never forget it. We start getting these reports. I I was the I was

[1:00:10] the Iraq briefer for the director at the time, CIA. We're getting these reports like, "You've got to be kidding me." Did you see this, Dodd? It says that the Iraqi station chief in Prague, it was meeting with al-Qaeda a month before the attacks. Like, that's that's an act of war. Okay. So, what's the source? It says a reliable source. Well, at the CIA, the words reliable source mean something. It means you have formally recruited the source. You have polygraphed him. He has

[1:00:42] passed the polygraph. And the previous information that he's given you has proven to be true. >> In short terms, it's a confirmed source. >> Confirmed. >> It's not a trust me, bro. Not one of those. >> So when we called the Pentagon, we said, "We want to see the source." They said, "Trust me, bro." So, a couple of us went to, you know, management, the deputy director and the associate deputy directors and said, "We think the Pentagon source is Ahmed

[1:01:14] Chalabe." And they said, "Well, we're not supposed to, like nobody's supposed to have any contact with Chelaby." I said, 'But literally every intelligence report that's coming in confirms what Dick Cheney has been screaming about. Everything. Well, you know what? It turned out the source was Chelby. They created the position of under secretary of defense for intelligence just to run the Chelby network. And so

[1:01:45] >> why didn't they just put him in charge of >> They might as well have make him the Secretary of Defense for that matter. >> Yeah, seriously. And so it was Chelby and those around Dick Cheney promoting this notion that 9/11 was actually carried out by the Iraqis, not by al-Qaeda or the Iraqis had hired al-Qaeda to do it. And that was what led to the decision to go to war. And mind you, this is at the same time when Iraq

[1:02:17] and al-Qaeda do not like each other >> at all. >> Because >> not at all. >> Because Saddam at the time, and these are stories that were out there, >> hated al-Qaeda, hated any sort of terrorist group, and was out to actually exterminate them. >> Exactly. But at the same time, you had other countries, including Israel, who was adamant about us entering Iraq because there was weapons of mass destruction. Correct. >> There was nukes. There was atomic bombs.

[1:02:49] And >> any day now, Saddam might lose his [ __ ] >> and push that red button >> and nuke not only Israel, but all of Europe and America. >> I tell you, the Israelis were so gung-ho to go to war with Iraq. They begged us to let them send us. >> When Netanyahu came to Congress and he gave a big speech and everybody was standing and clapping like he was the freaking president of the United States. >> I'll tell you, just a couple of days before we attacked Iraq, um the Israelis sent us a cable from Tel Aviv. And they said, um, we want to be involved in the

[1:03:22] invasion. And I briefed it that morning. I remember it like it happened yesterday. I said, we got a cable from the Israelis. They want to be in on the invasion. The deputy director says,"Absolutely not. Not in a million years." And I said, 'I know. I already I already told the the regional office that received the cable. The answer is no. It's not just no, it's hell no. Within 24 hours. Well, Iraq in the western desert desert, they electrified the country, of course,

[1:03:52] right? You you put up an electrical grid, but their electrical towers had three legs. Ours usually have four legs in the United States. Theirs had three. So just 2, three days before the war started, every one of these towers just started toppling over in the desert. You know, you you can drive for 20 hours in western Iraq and never see another human being. It's just wasteland. >> Yeah. >> So they had run these electrical lines all the way out to to the Jordanian and Syrian borders. >> The Israelis clearly had sent in teams, sabotage teams. They put explosives on

[1:04:24] one leg of every tower and for like a hundred miles all the towers just started tipping over. And I remember the deputy director saying, "Those damn Israelis, they just can't take no for an answer. Like they had to be involved." Even in the first Gulf War, the Israelis came to us and we were putting this coalition together to push the Iraqis out of Quait and the Israelis like we want in. We were like, "Are you crazy? If you jump in, the Syrians are out, the Egyptians are out, the Saudis are out. Nobody wants you in. Just let us do our

[1:04:56] thing and then we push the Iraqis out. >> So, was it us telling Israel, don't send troops in. >> Don't send anything. They were like, "Oh, we could send ambulances." We're like, "No, we don't want anything from you guys. Nothing. Everybody else is going to quit if you guys get involved." Well, then how come when we invaded Iraq and we invaded Afghanistan, >> you had you had Marines, you had the army, you had the air force, and at the same time you had the British coming in there and helping us as well. So why is

[1:05:26] it that the Brits could come and help us but Israel who was adamant about attacking Iraq and Netanyahu's like I said at Congress at United in the United States giving the speech saying we must take out Iraq and get those weapons of mass destruction yet they can't send their IDF soldiers. >> Oh absolutely not because because they're paras. They're international paras. >> What about the British army? >> Yeah the British army is the British army. They have bases all over the place just like we do.

[1:05:56] >> So, how how was Israel our greatest ally then at that point? >> Oh, they're not. They're not. That That's another That's another misconception among the general public that we're that we're friends with the Israelis. If you're in government, especially if you're in intelligence, >> you know from the get-go the Israelis are no friends of ours. No way. So why why is it that majority of the United States continues to push that narrative? Because that's that's the power of the Israel lobby.

[1:06:28] >> I mean today you can speak foul of any country, >> not Israel. >> Not Israel. In fact, you know, there are uh 34 states that have laws saying that if you contract with the state, even on a one-time basis, you have to sign a loyalty oath swearing your loyalty to Israel, not to the United States, to Israel. I have a friend who uh was was hired to give a speech at Georgia State University, right? You go in, you give

[1:06:59] your speech, $500, you go home. And they said, "Well, you have to sign this declaration saying that you support Israel." She said, "I don't support Israel." Well, you have to sign it or you can't contract with the state. We can't pay you. We're going to have to cancel the speech. She said, "Cancel it. I'm not signing a loyalty oath to a foreign country. You go up to Capitol Hill. You know, Senator Tom Cotton, this [ __ ] from Arkansas." >> Yes. >> He has the Israeli flag outside his office in the hallway in the Senate office. >> How is that allowed?

[1:07:30] >> Exactly. How is that allowed? There's this idiot congressman uh from from um Florida, this Republican from Florida who a day or two days after October 7th wore an IDF uniform on the floor of the House of Representatives. >> I saw that. I saw that. >> What What have we Have we lost our minds? >> What happened to America First? >> Exactly. I'm for America First. >> Absolutely. And this has nothing to do with the anti-semitism card that they play. >> Absolutely not. In fact, I was talking to a guy just last week. I gave a speech

[1:08:01] in uh where was I? I gave a speech in New York at St. John's University and um he's an Israeli guy, but he he he had this like transformation. So now he's a member of Jewish Voices for Peace, which is quite active in New York. And he told me he went he's an Israeli citizen. He went to school in Israel. And he said, "They teach us in public school in Israel to accuse anybody who criticizes Israel of anti-semitism, no matter what the

[1:08:32] criticism is." He said, "We're instructed to call them anti-semites." >> Well, yeah. That's their basic victim card that they pull out, >> right? Because it silences debate. >> Of course, it it's like a yellow card in soccer. >> Exactly. >> You did something bad. I'm going to pull the card out. >> Back out. We've spoken about this whole anti-semitism card that they play and the victimization that they play and how they bring up the Holocaust and you're a Nazi if you speak up against us. But when you as Armenians, the three of us being Armenians, the Armenians went

[1:09:02] through a genocide as well. Absolutely. >> In 1915, 1.5 million Armenians were massacred along with Assyrians and Greeks. >> That's right. We lost hundreds of thousands of Greeks. Not not losses to the point that the poor Armenians suffered, but Yeah. So you're talking about it was an honest to god genocide. >> Yeah. Hitler said who today remembers the Armenians. >> Yet when you look at the countries that don't recognize the Armenian side, you would think that Turkey wouldn't recognize it. Absolutely. Turkey committed the genocide. That Turkish flag is still around. >> Azerban doesn't recognize it. But you

[1:09:32] know what else? There's another country that doesn't recognize it. >> Israel doesn't recognize it. Have you been involved in a car accident? Don't face the aftermath alone. Arman Gregorian is your personal injury attorney who specializes in car accidents. He'll fight for compensation that you deserve. Call Arman Gregorian now at 81844333. That's 818-4433. Why is it that Israel can't recognize

[1:10:03] the Armenian genocide yet they play the victim card as to we went through a holocaust? >> Yeah. >> Well, so did we. You know, I think for a couple of reasons, neither of which are legitimate in my view. But on the one hand, recognizing another genocide would dilute the political power of the of the genocide against the Jews in the Second World War. >> Well, what I'm about to say might be taken out of context, and again, ladies and gentlemen, don't take this out of context, but we were only 1.5. You were

[1:10:34] 6 million. Why would it dilute it? >> I know. Genocide is genocide. >> Absolutely >> right. I mean we have to learn from these things and recognize them and commemorate them. I was in Greece in March and um and there was a huge uh event set up in Simagma Square across from the parliament. It's the main square of the of the country, right? And it was about the uh the Pontian genocide. There the there were Greeks, Ottoman Greeks that that lived uh along

[1:11:05] the Black Sea. just 1500 of them left. But we're talking about hundreds of thousands of Greeks that lived on the Black Sea in an area that used to be called Ponttos. My grandmother, my mother's mother's family came from Puntos and they escaped in 1920, 1918 and made their way to Greece ahead of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire when they were massacring the Armenians and the Assyrians and the Greeks. Well, my friend that I was with had never heard of the Pontian genocide.

[1:11:36] And I said, 'You know, here in Greece, we we teach it, right? Because you have to learn from history. Every Greek knows what happened to the Armenians. Every Greek. Every Greek knows what happened to the to the Assyrians. How many Americans even know what the word Assyrian means? >> Seriously, they don't. >> They don't know. >> But also ask yourself this question, John. Why do they not refer the Holocaust to as genocide? I think really it's because for so long

[1:12:08] the Israelis were cultivating close relations with the Turks, >> which is why the Greeks were so pro Palestinian for so long that I think that that they calculated and we can we can just screw the Armenians because there aren't many of them. We're going to go with the Turks and the Turks aren't going to want us to recognize the Armenian genocide, but the Turks are going to sell us weapons and they're going to give us a little foothold in the Muslim world. I think that was a very cynical calculation. >> Why wasn't it called the Jewish genocide? Israeli genocide.

[1:12:39] >> Say that again. >> I mean, not Israel. Why wasn't it called the Jewish genocide? Why the Jewish Holocaust? >> Why was every Yeah. Every other country that faced a genocide or mass killings was called a genocide, right? >> Yeah. >> Not Holocaust. It's not It's not called the Armenian Holocaust. >> No, you're exactly right. That's a good question. Um, yeah. I have a good friend. um who I'm ashamed to say uh is the attorney for the Turkish government in in Washington and he's got a

[1:13:10] Wikipedia page and on the Wikipedia page it says that he is a an Armenian Holocaust denier. And I said to him one day, "Did you know that on your Wikipedia page it says that you're a denier of the Armenian Holocaust?" And he said, "I am not. I'm not a denier." He said there is a United Nationsmandated definition of holocaust and it doesn't apply in the Armenian case. The Armenian killings were a

[1:13:43] genocide. And I said, "Be that as it may, this is a bad look for you." Because for most Americans, the words Holocaust and genocide are interchangeable. just accept that a million and a half Armenians were murdered. Just accept it. You know, it happened. He's like, "No, in law school they taught us." And and he won't he won't acknowledge it. >> He won't budge at all mentioning that a genocide. >> Chale Sen was on our podcast and Chale

[1:14:14] Sudden ran into a friend from Turkey and he would ask him as well. He goes, "What happened in 1915?" And he said an event took place. >> Yeah. And that was Ottoman. We're not Ottomans. That's not us. Could you imagine, John, if the Nazi flag was still flying around in Germany? >> But the Turkish flag that massacred 1.5 million Armenians, >> Greeks, and Syrians >> is still up flying. >> Yep. And it's always the other guy's fault. >> Of course it is. Why would it be?

[1:14:44] >> Oh, no. No. We're We're Republic of Turkey. You're talking about the Ottoman Empire. That wasn't us. >> So, change your flag. >> Yeah, exactly. Change your flag. That flag was flying in 1915 as Armenians were being walked in the desert. >> As Armenians were being >> shot execution style. >> That's right. >> And women and children >> crucified in some cases. >> Yes. Women and children were being beheaded. >> Mhm. >> There was It's sickening to say this. There were pregnant women who were marched in the desert whose stomachs

[1:15:15] were slid open so they would guess together the Ottoman soldiers as to what the sex of the baby would be. >> Have you ever heard the term janisary? >> It sounds familiar. >> The Turks had this this uh military unit called the Janiseries. What they would do um was they would kidnap Greek children, take them back to Turkey, raise them as Turks, put them through this advanced military training, like special forces training, and send them back to Greece to kill Greeks. You're

[1:15:46] [ __ ] me, >> huh? They were called the Janiseries. They had no idea that they were Greek. There's so many people living in Turkey right now who have Armenian blood. >> Oh my god. It's the same with I I belong to these uh these uh DNA Facebook pages. I can't tell you how many Turks who said, "Oh my god, I just did 23 and me and I'm 75% Greek. It's going to screw up my whole world view." >> I was literally just about to bring that up. There was a video of a Turkish guy who lived in Istanbul, which is Constantinople, and he did a 23 in me

[1:16:19] test, and he's sitting there staring at his phone, and he says he's 95% Greek. See? and he's just like, and obviously he's speaking in Turkish, but there's subtitles and he's basically saying, "I can't believe I'm Greek and I'm not Turkish." >> Let's dive into another subject right now. We want to dive into the JFK files. Recently with the Trump administration, they declassified the John F. Kennedy files. And everybody was super excited to find out, all right, you know what?

[1:16:50] what happened to one of the greatest presidents that was going to I mean hopefully finish his term but unfortunately we saw what happened. How much of the CIA was involved in the assassination of John F. Kennedy? >> Well, first I want to say I have a friend at the White House and I commented to him a couple of months ago. Thank God that President Trump released the uh the rest of the JFK documents. He said no he didn't. I said, "Sure, he did." He said, "Oh, no, he didn't. He

[1:17:23] released most of them." And I said, 'Well, why didn't he release all of them? And he said, 'Because the ones that are still classified point the finger right at the Israelis. So, that's number one. Number two, to answer your question more specifically, I thought that what documents were released were huge, right? There's been so much speculation about CIA involvement in the Kennedy assassination for so many years and the CIA denied and

[1:17:54] denied and denied and denied all these years, 70 years, 62 years. Well, what these documents told us what there was that there was CIA involvement. It may have been peripheral on the one hand, but there are two things that that are critically important, I think. Number one, the CIA lied consistently about its contact its contact with Lee Harvey Oswald. Consistently. For all these years, they said, "We didn't have any contact with Lee Harvey

[1:18:24] Oswald." That is just simply not true. We know now that James Angleton, the deputy director for counter intelligence, had ordered that the CIA be in touch with with Lee Harvey Oswald. We also know that Oswald, you know, debated uh anti-Castro people for local TV consumption in places like Miami and New Orleans, apparently knowing that those debates were set up by the CIA.

[1:18:56] So money was expended either to recruit Oswald or to remain in touch with Oswald. Number one. Number two, the conventional wisdom was that these documents would probably not tell us anything new, but that they would probably serve to confirm CIA surveillance operations in Mexico City in October and November 1963. And people were saying, scholars were saying, okay, so who were they surveilling in Mexico

[1:19:27] City? And why were they surveilling those people in Mexico City? We all knew the likelihood was they were surveilling Lee Harvey Oswald in Mexico City and it turns out that they were they watched him go to the Russian embassy or the Soviet embassy. They watched him go to the Cuban embassy was turned away from both places but they knew about Oswald. How did they know about Oswald? Because they were working with him. So that was very very important. Secondly, and this is the darker part.

[1:19:58] This is actual CIA involvement. I'm ashamed to say that there was a Greek American named George Gianides who was a senior CIA officer. He was what today we would call the station chief in Miami, right? He worked his way up very very quickly. He had been OSS briefly, then he dropped out, then he came back in like 52 or 55, something like that. moved up very quickly uh through operations and ended up running CIA operations from Miami. That put him

[1:20:29] in touch not just with Oswald, but with the anti-Castro Cubans. It also would have put him in touch with Santo Trafocante, the the mob boss that controlled Florida at the time. Santo Trafocante senior. Um and with Carlo, what's his name? Carlo Mar Car Carlos Marcelo or Carlo Marcelo from New Orleans, the mob boss in New Orleans. >> Okay. >> Um the the scholars that I'm in touch with

[1:21:00] like Jefferson Mley for example, I think Jeff Mley knows more about the Kennedy assassination than any other person on the planet. Jeff always maintained that there was CIA involvement in the in the form of Georgees and It looks like he was right. It's not that the CIA was involved as the CIA. It's that elements of the CIA were involved in the form of John. John was a

[1:21:32] fascist, an avowed fascist, and he hated Kennedy and he hated communism. And it kind of looks to me like he put this secret group of people together and helped to kill Kennedy. And it would also explain why at the at the at the what? You can't call it a press conference. You know, when they when they dragged when they dragged Oswald out, he had been the cops beat him up.

[1:22:03] >> Yeah. It was call it a reporter interview. >> Yeah. Reporters thing. And where he said, "I'm just a psy." Well, nobody was ever able to explain what he meant. He was shot the next day. >> Well, he looked super confused as well when they told him president's dead. Yeah. He he he was like in shock. >> I'm just a psy. That would account for it. That would make sense. >> If he had been duped into doing it, he would believe that he was a psy. And I I'll add one third thing. Bobby Kennedy Jr. is a friend of mine. He told me the

[1:22:35] most fascinating story. And I said to him, "You've got to write this down. This has like historic import." He said that on November 22nd, 1963, he was in junior high school and his mom drove to the school to pick him up early because his uncle had just been shot. So they drove back to the house. They they had a big mansion called Hickory Hill, just a quarter of a mile from the CIA headquarters. And the Kennedys were very, very close friends with John

[1:23:05] McCone and Mrs. McCone. John McCone was the director of the CIA. Mrs. McCoen had died 6 months earlier of breast cancer and John McCone had been deeply in love with his wife and the Kennedys were afraid that he was going to try to commit suicide. He was so distraught over the loss of his wife. So they invited him to dinner seven nights a week. So he'd finish working at the CIA. He'd drive the quarter mile to Hickory Hill. He would have dinner with the Kennedys and then McCone and Bobby

[1:23:37] Kennedy senior would go swimming together. They had a pool, indoor pool. So when Bob and his mom get out of the car, he said his father's standing in the driveway talking to McCone and he heard his dad say, "Tell me your people didn't do this." And McCon said, "I don't know who did it." The point being, he didn't say, "Of course, my people didn't do this." What would make you think that the CIA would

[1:24:09] kill the president of the United States? That's not what he said. He said, "I don't know who did it because he didn't trust his own people." So with what we know now about Joanis who died in like 1991 I think and never ever talked. I think that an inference can be made now that yes even if it was unofficial um unofficial

[1:24:39] involvement we could call it CIA involvement. >> Now the documents point to as you mentioned Israel. Yeah. >> Prior to the assassination, correct? There was conversations that took place and this is all obviously documented where >> Kennedy is now pulling funds from this from Israel. Correct. >> He wants to >> investigate what's really going on in Israel >> with the nuclear program. >> Exactly. >> Because they had been riding Kennedy to

[1:25:09] give them nuclear weapons technology and he refused. >> So Kennedy turns around and says, "Well, you know, there's a bunch of funds coming into Israel now. You want a nuclear program? I refuse to give you a nuclear program. And in fact, we're actually going to be >> more or less uh auditing what's actually >> he was considering sanctions. >> Yes. Yes. Auditing what's actually going on to consider these sanctions and then boom. >> He also told his girlfriend Mary Meyer, Mary Pincho Meyer.

[1:25:40] >> I thought you were going to say Marilyn Monroe. >> No. No. Mary Meyer uh was married to Cord Meyer who was the number three at the CIA. Mary and Cord and Kennedy had all gone to school together. They were great friends from childhood. Mary and Cord got married. Kennedy continued his affair with Mary all through the the uh marriage. Um, their marriage broke up in the late 1950s because their 9-year-old son uh had been hit by a car and was killed

[1:26:11] crossing uh Chambridge Road in MLAN. And so, you know, when when people lose a child, often times the marriage can't survive. So, they got a divorce. She continued to see Kennedy. She said in her diary that three weeks before he died, he told her that he was going to break the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the wind. Now, he also told McGeeorge Bundy the

[1:26:41] same thing. His national security adviser Bundy wrote that in his in his memoir. He had said it to other people. That tells me he was serious about it. that he recognized in 1963. This CIA, this thing is out of control. >> Now, if he's saying this to his girlfriend who he's having an affair with, >> whose husband is the number three in ex-husband is the number three in the CIA. >> Imagine who else he's been telling that same story. >> He was genuinely worried about the CIA. They're out of control. They're out

[1:27:12] there overthrowing governments and assassinating world leaders and spying on Americans. I have a buddy. He was one of my first bosses at the CIA and he told me that he started in the CIA in the 70s as an intern, right? There's a there's a classified internship program. You have to be like really really clean, you know, to get this internship. And um James Angleton was it was like his final year as the as the deputy director for counter intelligence. He was a monster

[1:27:42] of historic proportions. So my my buddy starts in that office and the secretary showed him around that day, gave him a tour of the office and he said, "When you first walked in, there was an entire wall that was just covered with shelves and the shelves had file folders on them." And the the secretary said, "Whatever you do, don't look in those files. You're not cleared for those files." Well, he's like, "I'm 22 years old. What do you think I'm going to do?" He said the first time he

[1:28:12] was left alone in the office, he went straight to the files. He said every single one of those files was on an American citizen. >> These are CIA files. >> But why was Kennedy threatening or considering dismantling the CIA? Isn't >> it out of control? >> But the CIA director is hired by the president. No. which is why he fired Allan Dulles and named John McCone. Allan Dulles was named CIA director by

[1:28:43] Eisenhower. His brother John Foster Dulles Dulles Airport >> Mhm. >> was the secretary of state under Eisenhower. They were two of the darkest figures in modern American history. And Kennedy's like, these guys are just killing everybody, overthrowing every government that looks at them crosseyed. I'll give you another example. um Guatemala in the 1950s. Okay. There was a there was a wealthy there was a wealthy

[1:29:15] businessman from Boston whose name escapes me and uh this around right around the turn of the 20th century and he decides he wants to build a railroad from Guatemala City to the coast, right? so that his ships can dock there and everything can be loaded and he can bring the goods to to the United States. So he hires all these poor illiterate workers to just, you know, clear the jungle and then lay the track for the

[1:29:47] railroad. every day when they take their break in the middle of the day, they're picking these fruits from the side of the, you know, area where they're working. And he said, "What are these fruits that these guys eat?" And he was told, "These are called bananas." He had never heard of this fruit before, right? So he tries one. He says, "My god, it's delicious." And they're growing everywhere. and he makes this decision that he's going to

[1:30:17] buy all the land on both sides of the track and he's going to sell the bananas in the United States. So he renames his company the United Fruit Company. Okay. So he ends up becoming the largest land owner in all of Central America. And it's all about the bananas. By 1955, the democratically elected government of

[1:30:49] Guatemala says, you know, the Americans pay us like a nickel an hour. They take all our bananas. They're making millions of dollars. We're not making anything. We should nationalize the banana industry and take over this United Fruit Company. Okay. Who are three members of the board of directors of the National Fruit Company? Alan Dulles, the head of the CIA, John Foster Dulles, the Secretary of State,

[1:31:20] and President Eisenhower's Secretary's brother. So what do they do? They overthrow the Guatemalan government and install a military dictator, which gives rise to the term banana republic. And the United Fruit Company under a different name is still the biggest company in Guatemala. They monopolize it as well. >> Kennedy's like, "What the [ __ ] is going on here? The CIA can just overthrow a government

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[1:32:22] Are you looking for a place to kick back and celebrate? Well, the Glenn Arden Club has got you covered. Upstairs, you got a private lounge with a cigar room. Downstairs, you got the Mooseen where you can have cocktails and private events. Hey, are you even hungry? They got an outside pizzeria serving one of the best pizzas in town. If you're interested in becoming a member with the Glenn Arden Club or booking an event, contact the Wisnuts. We'll connect you to the boys at the Glen Arden and you can become a member here or host your next gathering.

[1:32:53] Knowing what you know now about the CIA and the government cuz you know how, for example, kids, young boys see police officers on the streets, firefighters on the street. >> Sure. Or maybe they watch a war movie and they decide, I want to become a Navy Seal. I want to become a firefighter when I grow up. I want to be a law enforcement. >> Knowing what you know with all the stories that you have, >> would you want to be a CIA officer again if you

[1:33:23] can do it all over again? >> Absolutely not. And I wouldn't allow my children to join the CIA. No. >> Why is that? >> Not only that, I I don't even think the CIA should exist. You know, everything is uh everything that the CIA does is also done elsewhere in government, right? Uh the director of operations does human source collection. Well, so does defense human services. They recruit spies to steal secrets just like the CIA does. The State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research, which is very highly respected, does analysis just

[1:33:55] like the CIA's Directorate of Intelligence does. DARPA and NSA and a half a dozen of other organizations do science and technology development just like the CIA's Directorate of Science and Technology. And for all intents and purposes, after the 9/11 attacks, the CIA became a paramilitary organization. Well, we've got the Navy Seals, we've got the Delta Force, we've got the Army Rangers, we got all these different paramilitary organizations. What do we need CIA for?

[1:34:27] So, do you think the CIA is actually operating as a fourth branch of government in the United States? >> That's a tough one. >> No, I No, I wouldn't go that far, but I would say that there is almost no congressional oversight post 911. The CIA can do literally anything it wants. I can't tell you how many times I was involved in an operation and a couple times where the operation went bad

[1:34:58] and then my director, my uh station chief would say, um, listen, we we probably shouldn't inform Congress about this. And I remember being a, you know, kind of a mid-career officer saying, what's the threshold for informing the oversight committees? you know, I thought when something turned to [ __ ] you had to, you know, write a memo and tell Congress. He's like, "No, no, no. We're not we're not writing any memos." Here's another thing. Let's say the CIA

[1:35:29] has I I don't know what it the number is classified, but I have no idea what the number is. Let's say they have 30,000 employees. 35 40,000 employees. Okay. The Senate Intelligence Committee has 40 employees. the House Intelligence Committee, maybe it has 50 and they're going to oversee the the activities of 35 or 40,000 people. How's that possible? You can't do it. So, going back to what you were mentioning about Guatemala and the whole

[1:36:00] banana republic, right? Do you think the CIA has enough power to, I don't know, interfere in United States elections like they do in changing elections and policies in foreign countries? It would be highly illegal, but sure, they have the power to do it if they wanted to do it. And listen, I I'm not gonna I'm not going to pull any punches here. I think that they sure tried to do it in 2016. You know, when you've got the likes of John Brennan essentially trying to

[1:36:30] initiate a coup against Donald Trump and to deny the American people the the president that they wanted that they voted for and chose. Yeah, I'd call that CIA involvement in America. >> They were saying that it was Russian involvement. It was a Russian Russian. That was all a lie. And it's been proven to be a lie. And then look at the Hunter Biden laptop. You know, you have all these guys. I knew every single one of those guys, 51, 53 people who signed this letter saying they did not say that

[1:37:02] the Hunter Biden laptop was a Russian operation. They said the Hunter Biden laptop bore all the hallmarks of a Russian operation. >> So why hasn't the entire laptop information been leaked out there? >> Oh, it has. All of it has. >> All of it. Every every page of it. >> So then why isn't the media speaking about it? Why is the Biden family? >> That's the question. Because if could you imagine if that was >> Don Trump Jr. or if it was Eric Trump? >> I have a copy of the Hunter Biden

[1:37:33] laptop, hard copy. Uh it's been published by an organization called Marco Polo. Google it. It's out there. They'll send it to you for next to nothing. It will make your hair stand up. >> Yeah. This man was allowed into the White House. >> Yeah. Right. >> [ __ ] And got a pardon. Well, he got pardoned right before his dad left. That's right. Along with Fouchy and a bunch of other individuals. >> Sure. Sure. Yeah. The fix was in. >> You should see the You should see the pictures in this. Oh my god. And this

[1:38:05] It's like, dude, did you ever go a full day without smoking crack or having sex with prostitutes? Ever one day? >> Well, his son was a >> and not take a picture of it. >> His son was a hero. >> Oh my god. Are we the only country that's this corrupt or or every other country is as corrupt as >> No, I hate to say, but yeah, pretty much everybody's corrupt >> to this extent though. >> Oh, worse. Most of >> I mean, he's been to 72 countries. >> Yeah, it's it's it's bad. >> I can't imagine how much worse it can get.

[1:38:35] >> Yeah. >> I think it's far worse now than it was, you know, 30 years ago. >> Well, cuz we have access to it right at the tip of our fingers with social media. >> That's right. You're I mean everybody is a walking surveillance camera at this point. >> You do something on the street instead of helping an individual out, everybody bust their phone out. >> Exactly. And you have no expectation of privacy in public >> at all. But but you know what the but the uh kind of the opposite end of that is which I was thinking about it today.

[1:39:05] I'm like with all of this AI technology now, right? >> That's the danger. the the government can pretty much, for instance, >> they can deep fake you right out of a job, right out of >> anything they want. Not only that, but let's say if you happen to be right near the uh Pentagon and you have your phone out there and you're filming what is supposed to be an airplane coming into the building and the government can say, "Well, no, that's all AI. This Arno used AI to

[1:39:38] create a propaganda against the government." Yeah, >> that was not an airplane here. This is the actual clips that we have. >> Yeah. >> And then what? >> So AI can be used >> to their benefit in whatever sense they choose. >> Very dangerous development >> and there's nothing you can do about it. >> It's going to be the downfall of humanity. >> Yeah, I agree. This is bad. >> It's dangerous. >> And we're toying with it right now. We're playing games with it right now. We're using it as uh as a tool. It's not a tool. >> No, it's not.

[1:40:08] >> And if it gets a weapon Yeah. And if it gets smarter and smarter and smarter, I mean, >> oh man, I watched iRoot. I know what happens when the blue light turns red. Yeah. >> All hell breaks loose. >> Absolutely. >> You know it's coming. >> What was wrong with pre pre iPhones and smartphones? Forget about pre- cell phones even. But let's say before smartphones, >> what was wrong with us only being able to get a hold of while we're in office or at home? What was wrong with if I

[1:40:39] need to send you an email, I actually need to be sitting at my desk to send you an email or to respond. And that was the expectation. >> One word. >> What? Convenience. >> Convenience. >> [ __ ] convenience, bro. >> But that's they didn't create that for your convenience. They fooled us to think it's convenient. >> Well, of course they did. Just like they fool us with convenient. >> Joe recently got the meta glasses. >> Oh, I have a pair. I use it only because when I ride on a plane, um, I I run the

[1:41:10] the sound for the movies that I watch through the medical. That's it. That's all I do. >> And and Joe got it for the show to do like B-roll and stuff. >> Cool. >> And shower. >> And shower. Yes. And shower. And shower. But >> when you look at that, they make it. Look at the company they partnered with. Ray-B bands. >> Yeah. >> Oh, it's cool. It's hip. It's Ray-B bands. Put it on. Look. Look. Yeah, everybody's got them on. And then yeah, you got a camera and oh, there's also speakers in there where you could listen to music and it's private. Look how cool

[1:41:40] it is. But dude, come on. >> Think about it. >> It's dangerous. >> Go down the rabbit hole, but don't go all the way down. Just, you know, just take a peek. Look down that rabbit hole and you see those glasses. It is a dangerous tool. Yeah, but that's the thing. It's always, you mentioned it, convenience. They sold us on the smartphones due to convenience. they're selling us on the AI due to convenience because now you got to say hey write an email uh for a real estate proposal or LOI anything you want 5 seconds it's

[1:42:12] there you just copy and paste it >> and it's convenient but now they have access just like with the smartphone >> they accessed every single thing that we do every transaction we make every email we send every text we send now with AI it's even more so so convenience is the driving force and the selling point. And we as the idiots that we are, we >> No, no. We're consumers. There is a reason why you can't take the battery out of this thing. >> You bet there is. >> And also, when this phone dies, for some

[1:42:44] reason, you could still track it. >> Yeah, >> but it's dead. >> There's a backup battery behind the back. >> Yeah. As look, John will know this better than any of us as far as like the wiretapping is concerned. I mean, how easy is it to tap a cell phone? Oh, [Laughter] >> that's the easiest. >> I think they've been able to do that since the invention of >> I think when John walked into the studio, >> we're already tapped. >> We're already tapped. They're like,

[1:43:14] let's see. Let's see if these morons are going to say to stupid. No, but in all seriousness, if you look at the Vault 7 revelations that came out in what was it 2017 or 2019, uh Joshua Schulty, who was a CIA computer engineer, allegedly >> leaked these to Wikileaks and the poor guy got 40 40 years in prison for it. But he he told us things that the CIA was doing that nobody had any idea was happening. For example, the CIA can take over control of your car remotely while

[1:43:46] you're driving it. >> Electric or any car, >> conventional, really. >> Boom. There you go. I >> by hacking into the by hacking into the car's computer system. So, why would the CIA want to take over your car? How about to make you go over a bridge or into a tree? >> Right. If you're a problem, into a bridge abutment. >> That's why I drive a 79 Cadillac. >> Exactly. And that's the only thing you can do to protect yourself. >> See, I I we had this argument with the boys like weeks ago where they were like, "Don't get an electric car. They

[1:44:17] could like they could gas it for you." Or not gas it for you, but don't get an electric car. They could basically drive it for you. They could steer it for you. They could stop you and everything. I was like, "Dude, the technology in cars nowadays, including gas powered cars, is so advanced. The computer systems in there are so crazy that regardless of it being electric or gas, they can drive you off that bridge. >> Yes, they can. >> Another thing that they can do is with any smart TV, they can flip this the the

[1:44:49] uh speaker >> into a >> microphone. They can listen to you talking in the room with the TV off. And then you know what they did just just to make it a little bit more difficult were this to be leaked is in the code for all this stuff they wrote some of it in Farsy some of it in Russian some of it in Chinese thinking well if one of our people leaks it we can say oh no no no it's not ours

[1:45:20] look at this is the code's in Russian the Russians did this they're doing it we're the victims oh my god Yeah. I Nobody's safe. I mean, >> no. Nobody's safe. >> You know what's funny? We have 1 2 3 four cameras pointing at us. A TV that might be an actual microphone. And we're speaking into mics right now that are connected to the internet >> and we're complaining about >> And we have phones in our back pockets. Oh jeez. It's uh it's it's just a matter of time before uh like all this just

[1:45:53] [ __ ] hits the fan. >> Well, there's got to be a tipping point, right? >> Of course there is. But when is that tipping point? That's what we don't know. No. >> But John, you had a story that when we were sitting on the couch, you wanted to say what was the story? >> That's what I was trying to remember this whole time. >> Joe, do you remember what it was? >> You you were going to say >> we were talking about horses. >> Yeah. >> We're talking about horses and how horses die >> and I I said there was an article in Vanity Fair uh a few years ago saying that, you know, horses are very expensive and you buy a racehorse and it doesn't win. What people were doing was

[1:46:25] they would take a light bulb and shove it up the horse's rectum. Uh, sepsis would set in, the horse would die, they pull the light bulb out. So when they do the necropsy, you know, the the animal autopsy, it just Well, the s the horse was sick. It had sepsis, right? You don't know that it was actually, you know, assassinated. Yeah. >> And then you can collect the uh insurance. And I said, >> I was in prison with a guy who was the meth king. This is what he called himself. He was the meth king of Kentucky.

[1:46:56] And uh I said, "Well, what exactly does that mean?" He said, "I literally controlled all of the meth trade in Kentucky." And we became kind of friendly. He was the white shot collar is what he was. So, um I says, "Well, what how do you become the meth king? Do you you have like labs set up?" And he said, "Oh, no, no. We didn't actually make any of that meth. Only like these toothless losers make make the meth." and it's not even crystal clear. It's brown and it's low quality.

[1:47:28] He said, "I would get my meth from Mexico." And I said, "And you were able to cross the border with like large quantities of meth." And he said, "That's what made me the meth king." He said, "I was a long-distance truck driver, but I specialized in the transportation of cattle." I said, ' Okay, I'm not really following you, but go ahead. And he said, 'Well, that's the thing. I would get one of these gloves that goes all the way up to

[1:47:58] your shoulder. I would take hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pounds of meth and shove it up the cow's asses, and that's how I would cross the border. The the DEA never knew that the cows were full of meth up their asses, and he would just cross the border. And I said, "So, how'd you get caught if you were the king and nobody knew you were bringing in cows that were stuffed with meth?" And he said, "The one thing about transporting cows, it's like the first

[1:48:29] rule of transporting cows is you always have to be moving because if you stop, the cows can't just stand there. They'll die. They have heart attacks and they'll die. They have to constantly be moving, right?" And he said that he got pulled over for some like random inspection and they made him go into this corral and he kept saying, "I got to move because the cows are going to die. You got to let me go. The cows are going to die." And then one of the cows died. And you know like

[1:49:01] a human being when you die your bowels express themselves and all this meth shot out >> and he was caught. He was caught. >> Holy [ __ ] 20 years. >> He didn't shove a light bulb up the cow's butt. >> That's what he should have done cuz at least they would have packed the meth up in there. >> Oh my god. >> And cause of death would have been sepsis, not >> and the cause of death would have been sepsis. >> Could you imagine? Like he basically it's like one of those uh random traffic

[1:49:31] stops where they just pull you over for one thing and then you get caught for the big one. >> 10 different felonies for all the crap you have in your car. The other day we were here at the lounge having cigars and uh somebody was telling a story of a friend that supposedly this friend was uh basically mule. He was bringing over drugs, >> right? >> And one day one of those drugs ends up somehow exploding in his in his body. >> Yeah. >> And he ends up dying from it because

[1:50:01] >> OD. Huh. >> Yeah. Yeah. OD from it. >> That's terrible. >> Yeah. Terrible terrible. Is there anything we missed? >> No, this was a good conversation. >> Dude, I We got to have you back. >> I'd love to. >> We got to go to DC. >> Oh, we got to go to DC. >> I've never been to DC. I haven't either. >> Seriously, we haven't been to I I'll show you all around. >> Really? >> Oh, yeah. We'll go out. I'll show you where the CIA is. >> When's the best season to come to DC as far as like the month and stuff? >> Springtime. >> Springtime's the best cuz the cherry blossoms are out and they really are as beautiful if

[1:50:31] >> Cuz we know it gets humid in DC. >> It gets terrible in the summer. >> Yeah. Uh, you know, September and October are generally good because the weather's still good and the tourists are gone, but really the very best time is April. Okay. >> And that's spring break for kids. No, >> that's true. That's spring break. >> Spring break. Okay. Well, maybe we could >> Yeah. >> I mean, we have your contact information at this point. We're definitely going to be in touch. I think we could sit and talk to you for hours. >> This was a lot of fun. >> So much fun. John, it was it was a pleasure having you here. We all three

[1:51:02] of us appreciate it. We hope everybody who's watching, you guys enjoyed this as well. Again, if you haven't liked the video, click that like button. If you guys haven't subscribed, subscribe to our channel. It helps us out and we can have people like John join us. >> Yeah, >> this was a hell of a conversation. Uh, >> and you're an amazing storyteller. >> You are. >> Thank you very much. Thank you very much. You know, I I approached a literary agent the other day. I've written eight books and I only used an agent for my first book, which did well. I made number five in the New York Times bestsellers list. Wow. So, I decided

[1:51:32] because people tell me I'm a good storyteller, I decided I'm going to write a a big book and put all my stories in one place. So, a buddy of mine who's also an author um and a former CIA officer, he's written actually 24 books and like nine of them have made number one in the New York Times bestsellers list. He says, "You got to talk to my my buddy. He reps uh non-fiction writers and you two would really like each other." So, I sent the guy a long email. Well, I said, "These are the eight books I read, I wrote, and and I won these literary awards and all this stuff, and this is what I want to do with book of stories." And he's like,

[1:52:03] "Yeah, that doesn't sound very interesting, and I don't think you'll make any money for me." I was like, "Oh, okay. >> Watch me. >> Thanks anyway." >> Yeah. Seriously. >> Uh, but so I'm already 20,000 words into it. >> Beautiful. >> I'll do it with him or without without him. We we wanted to have this conversation a little bit different from the other podcasts that you've been on as as you noticed. Uh a lot of the other shows that you've been on, they talk about

[1:52:33] >> what happened with the CIA and the torturing and all that. We're like, I think I'm tired of talking. >> Yeah. And it's like, dude, everybody's heard those stories. We want to dive into something where we can kind of bounce certain topics off of each other and get your perspective on it, which again, we greatly appreciate. >> I'm glad to have had the opportunity. Thank you. >> Appreciate John. Guys, today's episode will be up and running on Spotify, Apple Podcast, and all major platforms. Mñana, have a great week. Have a great weekend. I'll see you guys all next week.
