Giuliani Pardon Solicitation
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John Kiriakou described a previously unpublicized meeting at the Trump International Hotel in Washington in which Rudy Giuliani's associate solicited $2 million in exchange for a presidential pardon, a story that subsequently appeared as a front-page article in the New York Times.

Background

Kiriakou had been seeking a pardon from President Trump during Trump's first term for his 2012 conviction under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982, after blowing the whistle on the CIA's torture program. He had first applied for a pardon under President Obama and, expecting as much, was ignored. He says he was probably too soft on Trump publicly because of his hope for a pardon. He first hired a lobbyist, Karen Giorno, to press the case, before several people separately suggested he approach Rudy Giuliani directly. Pressing his case, he appeared on Tucker Carlson's show roughly a dozen times, with on-air chyrons reading "pardon Assange and Kiriakou." He came close: Carlson later told him Trump had intended to pardon him alongside Julian Assange and Edward Snowden at the end of his first term, but Mitch McConnell warned Trump that pardoning Assange and Snowden would cost him the Senate Republican caucus's protection against conviction on impeachment charges, killing all three pardons. Among those who supported the pardon push was Tucker Carlson, whom Kiriakou credits with putting his own reputation on the line for him and suggesting Kiriakou talk to Giuliani. A friend who had a relationship with Giuliani put him in touch with Giuliani's office. An associate told him Giuliani would be in Washington and invited him to meet at the Trump Hotel. Kiriakou brought his attorney, Bruce Fein, a former deputy attorney general under President Reagan and a constitutional scholar.

The meeting

Giuliani arrived with two other people. The conversation began with sports, the Jets, the Mets. When Kiriakou attempted to raise the subject of a pardon, Giuliani said: "Anybody know where the pisser is?" and stood up and walked away.

Giuliani's associate then said: "You never talk to Rudy about a pardon. You talk to me about a pardon." He then stated: "Rudy's going to want $2 million for the pardon."

Kiriakou's response: "First of all, I don't have $2 million. I'll never have $2 million. But even if I did, why would I spend $2 million to recover a $770,000 pension?" He looked at his attorney; Fein said: "We got up." They left.

The photograph

That evening, Kiriakou attended a book-release party at the Republican National Committee, where he ran into Robert MacLean, a TSA whistleblower and friend. When Kiriakou told him what had happened, MacLean said: "That's a crime. That's a felony." Kiriakou replied: "Yeah, but what am I going to do? I don't have $2 million."

Several days later, Mike Schmidt of the New York Times called and said he had heard that Giuliani had tried to get $2 million from Kiriakou for a pardon. He said the Times was doing a story because Giuliani was reportedly seeking the same amount from multiple pardon applicants, Kiriakou, Schmidt told him, was the fourth person Giuliani had approached for $2 million in exchange for a pardon. He asked Kiriakou to go on the record. After consulting his attorney, who told him "Go on the record. You have nothing to hide", Kiriakou did.

Publication and aftermath

The story ran on the front page of the New York Times. Giuliani's public response: "I never met this man. I've never heard of this man. None of this is true."

The Times called Kiriakou for a response. He sent them the photograph taken at the meeting that morning. The paper published the story with the note: "The New York Times has seen documentary proof that the meeting took place."

Kiriakou later learned through Giuliani's former business development director, Noelle Dunphy, that when the article appeared, Giuliani told her: "That damn CIA guy ratted me out to the New York Times."

Kiriakou says Giuliani attempted to shake down about half a dozen people for $2 million each around this time, which he attributes to expenses arising from Giuliani's fourth divorce. His ex-wife's leaked discovery in that case, per Kiriakou, revealed that Giuliani belonged to seventeen country clubs and spent $10,000 a month on cigars. Kiriakou says it was a fellow whistleblower he had confided in about the shakedown who told the story to Mike Schmidt of the New York Times, prompting Schmidt to call Kiriakou directly and Kiriakou to agree to go on the record.

The broader pardon campaign

Giuliani's shakedown did not end Kiriakou's pursuit of a pardon. His case included a letter signed by seventy former CIA officers, a letter from the Intelligence Identities Protection Act's own author saying he should never have been charged, and a floor statement of support from Senator John McCain, as well as an op-ed then-Senator Joe Biden had written in the Christian Science Monitor arguing the law itself was unconstitutional and should never have passed.

He sought a pardon from Biden through a Greek Orthodox priest close to him, drawing letters of support from Annette Bening, Susan Sarandon and other Hollywood figures, as well as from the Greek Orthodox Archbishop, the Bishop of Pittsburgh, two Greek American billionaires, the former lieutenant governor of New York and the Illinois secretary of state. Two of the Greek American benefactors met with Biden in Wilmington days before Trump's second inauguration to press his case directly; Biden ultimately declined, telling them it was either Kiriakou or Chelsea Manning, and "Manning got 30 years." Separately, Alan Dershowitz called Kiriakou offering to write a letter supporting his pardon application, joining Tucker Carlson and Judge Napolitano.

The pardon process

Kiriakou describes the formal clemency process as an application through justice.gov that is then routed to the FBI for a background investigation, then on to prosecutors, the sentencing judge, the deputy attorney general and finally the White House chief of staff, a chain in which, he says, each link typically recommends against a pardon unless the applicant has money or influence. He contrasts his own arduous, ultimately unsuccessful application with pardons Trump granted to people who never formally applied, citing a Green Beret convicted of war crimes whose case Fox News covered nightly for six weeks before his pardon, and the "kids for cash" judge who took bribes to hand children into juvenile detention. He notes the number of pardons granted has shrunk dramatically over recent decades, Richard Nixon pardoned 22% of applicants, compared with roughly 2% today. Asked separately about Rod Blagojevich's pardon, Kiriakou said the former Illinois governor deserved it, arguing he never actually committed a crime, only talked about selling a Senate seat, and got 14 years in prison for the conversation alone.

After his release, Kiriakou learned that only Virginia and Florida require a convicted felon to obtain the governor's approval before registering to vote; Virginia's then-governor, Terry McAuliffe, personally sent him a gubernatorial pardon so he could register.

'Anybody know where the pisser is?' (Scott Michael Nathan)

John Kiriakou recounts meeting Rudy Giuliani for a drink at the Trump Hotel in 2020 to discuss a pardon; when Kiriakou raised the subject, Giuliani stood up, said "Anybody know where the pisser is?" and walked off, his aide explaining, "You never talk to Rudy about the pardon. You talk to me," and that Rudy would want $2 million. Kiriakou refused, "why would I spend $2 million to recover a $700,000 pension?", and the scheme became a New York Times story after another whistleblower reported it to the FBI; Kiriakou was the sixth person Giuliani had solicited. Giuliani denied ever meeting him until Kiriakou produced a photo of the two together.

The approach, and the arithmetic

Kiriakou's fuller account begins with the machinery. He had hired a Republican lobbyist to help him navigate a White House "unlike any other White House I've ever experienced in Washington, and I've been in Washington for 40 years ... they were just breaking the rules and making new policy every single day." The lobbyist's advice was that "we need to get in front of Rudy Giuliani. Rudy Giuliani can get you a pardon." Kiriakou did not know Giuliani but knew people close to him, and was referred to a friend and confidant who functions as his chief of staff. The man's opening line on the phone was "let me guess, you're calling about a pardon."

The meeting was set for lunch at the Trump Hotel rather than later, and Kiriakou says the reason was given to him in advance: "we should meet for lunch, because Rudy really enjoys scotch, and by 2 o'clock he's enjoyed scotch a little too much and he's unable to get any business transacted."

When Kiriakou finally said "so, about this pardon?", Giuliani stood up, "I got to hit the head", and walked away. "And I said to his friend, what just happened? And he said, you never discuss business with Rudy. You discuss it with me, and I discuss it with Rudy." The figure followed: "Rudy's going to want $2 million to do this."

Kiriakou's refusal was arithmetical rather than moral. "First of all, I don't have $2 million. I'll likely never have $2 million. Secondly, even if I did, why would I spend $2 million to recoup a $700,000 pension? That's ridiculous." Giuliani returned from the men's room and the subject was not raised again. Kiriakou's own comparison for the choreography is cinematic: "I have pictures of Michael Corleone saying he has to get up and go to the bathroom."

How it became public

Kiriakou says he had forgotten the episode until, days before the end of the Trump administration, he retold it as a funny story at a book party at the Republican club on Capitol Hill. A friend there reported it to the FBI without telling him. "And then the FBI called me, and I said, I don't have any complaint. I said it wasn't a bribe. He wanted me to hire him as a quote-unquote consultant, because that's how Washington works: you cash in on the importance of your name." The FBI never followed up, "and I wouldn't have expected them to." The friend then took it to the New York Times, Kiriakou says, only because the FBI would not prosecute.

The friend later phoned to ask forgiveness, opening with "please don't hang up on me." Kiriakou's answer was that he forgave him but did not understand it, "I have enough problems in my life, I don't need to be on the front page of the New York Times", and his advice was blunt: "buddy, you've got to back off. Let me do this the way I need to do it. If you want to get something off your chest, tell your bartender. Don't call the FBI."

See also

- John Kiriakou
- Bruce Fein
