Title: Israel and Al-Qaeda CIA Whistleblower Exposes the Alliance
Show: Kim Iversen
Date: 2026-04-02
URL: https://youtu.be/2k0Rz71HCIE
Duration: 68:00

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[00:00] So tonight we're going to be diving into US foreign policy under Donald Trump from the al-Qaeda takeover in Syria. Uh Israel Palestine, also what is going on with Russia and the uh trying to end the war with Ukraine. And we're going to be talking about the question that sparks endless debate. Can we or should we get rid of the CIA? To help navigate this minefield of geopolitics, we're speaking with someone who knows the CIA inside and out. former CIA officer and

[00:30] whistleblower John Kuryaku. John spent 14 years in the CIA, specializing in counterterrorism and leading high-risk operations, including a pivotal role in capturing Abu Zuba, who was once believed to be al-Qaeda's third in command. But John's legacy didn't stop there. In 2007, during an explosive interview with ABC News, he revealed that Zubeta had been tortured by US operatives, making him one of the first insiders to confirm America's use of

[01:00] torture post 911. But instead of being celebrated for exposing this dark chapter, John was vilified and ultimately sent to prison for two years. He's the only person to have served time in connection with the US torture program post 911, not for committing torture, but for blowing the whistle on it. John has gone on to lend his insights, hosting numerous shows, including Political Misfits and Loud and Clear on Sputnik Radio, The Whistleblowers on RT, and now he has a

[01:31] new show called CIA Declassified on Unified TV, where he delves into covert operations and controversial practices of the CIA, offering viewers and insiders perspective on the AY's clandestine activities. It's really great to have John joining us again on the show. This will be, I think, his third or fourth time being here, which is always so great to talk to him. John, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here. >> Thank you, Kim. It's good to see you again. >> Good to see you. Oh, there's so much

[02:02] going on in the world. I can't wait to pick your brain on everything that's going on with this new administration. >> Yeah. >> Where should we start with the world? >> Oh my god. Um, let's start with Syria actually with with what happened during the Biden administration, you know, recently with Syria, the fall of Assad, um, with, uh, al-Qaeda and, you know, al-Qaeda essentially taking over the country. Um, what >> Yeah, you're not overstating it.

[02:34] >> Oh, boy. >> You know, wow. Where do you even start with this with this Syria issue? This was a major victory for Turkey and for Israel and to a lesser extent for the United States, but but we don't really get a whole lot out of it. But, you know, the Turks could not have moved at a more perfect time. This fit right into the Israeli playbook, which then leads me to conclude that uh they were in cahoots on it. Uh it's a serious setback

[03:04] for the Russians and for the Iranians to the point where it could it could lead to um to domestic problems in Iran because people are furious that the Iranian government apparently did nothing to protect the Assad government. Uh the Israelis immediately moved in and took a little strip along the border and have said that they have no intention of getting out. And then all of a sudden al-Qaeda's in charge of the country. And not only is al-Qaeda in charge of Syria now, but this is the al-Qaeda faction

[03:37] that is supported by the CIA. It was opposed by the Pentagon, but supported by the CIA, financed and armed by the CIA. And then the State Department sent a high level delegation led by Assistant Secretary of State Barbara Leaf, an old colleague of mine, to meet with the new head of this this faction that controls the Syrian government, and to announce that the United States was lifting its $10 million bounty that had been placed

[04:09] on his head. So, if that isn't Bizarro World, I don't know what is. I mean, it's just such a why why were we supporting this guy? I mean, this this is I mean, this guy fought against American troops, right? I mean, this guy killed Americans. Um I mean, we went and we were fighting al-Qaeda and now >> and now we're supporting them. I mean, what do you think a lot of people and you know, I I've suspected of course that Israel really had it was all Israel. Whatever Israel wanted when it

[04:40] came to Syria is kind of what we just kind of went with whatever they wanted when it came to >> and they got it. >> Yes. >> And they Right. And so how why are we putting their interests ahead of I mean look a lot of us don't agree with the war in Iraq. Right. We never should have gone in. There was all of that. Um but nonetheless we did go in. These guys fought. I mean they were I guess it's kind of complicated now looking back like do do we say they were freedom fighters or were they terrorists? like which what what were they? I mean, what would you say they are? >> And that and that's a thin line. I would

[05:11] say they were terrorists because look, this this Syrian it's um it's it's the latest the newest iteration of the Nusra front which had been called al-Qaeda and it broke off from from ISIS, right? because it wanted to focus specifically on Syria rather than on this this giant caliphate that uh that uh the Islamic Front or ISIS uh had initially set out to establish. So

[05:42] the CIA began supporting it while the Pentagon was supporting a different organization that was I I saw it described in the New York Times recently as as a a group of unaffiliated rebels. It's all nonsensical. But the truth of the matter is actually, you know what? I'm going to simplify this. I'm going to boil it down to something that that my oldest son told me when he was 9 years old. When when my oldest son was nine and his brother was six, I took them to a WWE professional

[06:14] wrestling match in Madison Square Garden. And these guys are breaking chairs over their heads and tables and throwing each other out of the ring. And I said to my son, I don't think I get it. Which one is the good guy? And he said, 'Well, that's just it, Dad. There is no good guy. That's Syria today. There's no good guy. So, what you do is you ally yourself with the the group that you think is the least of the bad guys.

[06:44] >> Yeah. And I if if these al-Qaeda people are people that are going to lay down their arms visav the United States, they're going to work closely with the government of Turkey, they're going to allow an Israeli occupation of their southwestern border, the United States can live with that. Now, one of the reasons why I think that this is so wrong and so shortsighted, Kim, is you don't have to like Bashar al-Assad. You don't have to like his politics, but

[07:17] Bashar al-Assad is uh is a a Shia Muslim in a majority Muslim country. He's an Alawi, which is a minority sect within Shiism. And because the Aloise are a minority of a minority, they have always had respect for other religious minorities. So, you know, I've been to to church in in an Orthodox cathedral in Damascus. Damascus

[07:47] has one of the oldest continuously operating synagogues in the world. There are Christians and Jews that serve in the Syrian government, that serve in the parliament, that serve in the cabinet. There are women that serve in the parliament and cabinet. And women don't have to cover themselves. His his personal politics aside, for many years it was Bashar Assad who was standing between the Christian community in Syria and complete annihilation.

[08:17] Do you trust Christians to to live under the thumb of al-Qaeda? Do you believe the State Department when it says, "Oh, don't worry about al-Qaeda. They're going to respect all faiths." Come on. You know, as the old saying goes, I was I was born during the day, but not yesterday. And that's really what it comes down to. >> Why is Israel being so shortsighted on this? Also, I mean, I understand that their whole what they were trying to do was was eradicate the axis of evil,

[08:48] right? That that's what they were kind of trying to to go after. And they wanted to dismantle anything that was Iranianbacked. Um, but but al-Qaeda, I I just don't they're not going to be friends. I mean, they're not I don't see where this I don't see if this is going to be like, oh, they're going to just let the Israelis live there side by side without any problems. I mean, this just seems short short-sighted on their part as well. >> Yeah, the Israelis get two things out of this. Uh, number one, Hezbollah is is no

[09:22] longer uh helping to prop up the Assad government, and the Iranians are no longer uh sending arms uh to the Assad government. That's number one. Number two, the Israelis always win in Syria when there's chaos. The Israelis want Syrians to to kill each other and to fight each other and for various factions to control different parts of the country. And the best part of it for the for the Israelis is that the United States occupies that small part of Syria

[09:53] where oil is produced. And the oil is going to Turkey. It's not going to Iran. It's not going to to Hezbollah. It's not being uh shipped uh south through Jordan and over to uh to Yemen. So the the Israelis come out ahead when there's chaos. They've decapitated Hezbollah. The Iranians have gone home with their tails between their legs. And so the Israelis just chuck that up as a win. >> Again, a short-sighted win. I mean, how

[10:24] long can you have your neighbors be in chaos? I mean, that's not sustainable. >> Yeah, you're you're exactly right. And I I've long said that the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. You know, there have long been or there had been long uh uh secret talks between the Israeli government and the Syrians. That's why there were never border clashes because they came to an agreement in 2004 not to fight over the border. And if you know that you can

[10:55] deal with Bashar al-Assad, you can handle the the Iranians, you can handle Hezbollah, you can ask the Americans to weigh in or ask the Turks to weigh in or ask even the Iraqis to weigh in. And uh the Israelis decided that >> that they were better with chaos. I think it's very short-sighted. >> Yeah, really shortsighted. What do you think is going to happen to that region of the world? I mean with um yeah I mean what what do you think long let's talk long term like long term so

[11:26] ju not even just the Trump administration these next four years what he chooses to do but I mean really long term what's going to happen over there >> I think that Syria is now a failed state >> um akin to Libya or Somalia or Yemen um over the medium to long term the only way that they can dig their way out of this is if the Gulf states come through for them in a very big way with money. The the Saudi government was more dedicated to the overthrow of Bashar

[11:58] al-Assad than pretty much any other country on the planet except maybe Israel. Um and now they have that. >> Yeah. Why? >> Because he was Shia. >> He was Shia and close to the Iranians and and Iran is Saudi Arabia's arch enemy. And so they always wanted him out and now he's out. So somebody has to build an airport, water treatment facilities, oil refineries, hospitals, schools, decent roads. The country is

[12:28] devastated. As I said, it's it's a failed state. It looks like like Somalia. Now, if the if the the Saudis come through, the Amiradis and the Gutteries over the long term, maybe they can turn Syria into something that perhaps someday might look like, let's say, Tunisia. >> I think that would be the best case scenario. >> Yeah. What do you think is the long-term? What's going to happen to Israel? I mean, this is just, you know, also just seems really unsustainable the

[13:00] way that they >> unsustainable. >> Yeah. I mean, what do you think's going to happen? >> You know, the Israeli policy, let's just call a spade a spade here. The Israeli policy is to kill everybody, >> and that's not that's not a policy. You can't kill everybody. There there was something that Donald Trump said several weeks ago that that really frightened me. He said that um that Gaza could be the next Monaco. No, Gaza can be better than Monaco. Yeah, that's great. But he meant without

[13:31] any Palestinians, and that's a non-starter. >> You know, within 24 hours, Kim, of of the ceasefire between Hamas and Israel, the Israelis launched a major offensive in the West Bank. >> Well, of course they did. I think everybody in the world expected them to to move into the West Bank because the policy is to is to either kill or throw out every Palestinian. And again, that is unsustainable. You just can't it it can't work. It won't work. I'm sure that

[14:04] you've been to Israel. I was there twice last year and I there's no other country on earth like Israel where you have the first world and the third world living side by side separated only by high walls and barbed wire and that's not a sustainable model for a state. >> No, no. I mean now they're talking about moving all of the gazins to Indonesia. I mean that's what they're like. Oh, give them one of the 17,000 islands of Indonesia. You know, they can have one of those and we'll just move them there.

[14:34] And that's what they're talking about. >> You know, they used to That's right. And they used to talk in the 1980s, they used to talk about well, along the border of Saudi Arabia and Iraq, there was this diamond that was called um uh the disputed territory, right? That was it. The disputed territory. And it was a couple of hundred square miles, very, very small. Um there was talk about just naming that Palestine and moving them all there. The thing is is nothing can live there. I mean, even insects don't

[15:06] live there. It's just dust. It has no water. It has no oil. It has no trees, no shrubs, no shade, no nothing. And then the Iraqis and the Saudis came to a border agreement and that idea went away. But this idea of just picking up an entire people and moving them, it's unprecedented really in the history of the world and it's just not tenable. >> Yeah. >> May I add something too? May I add something? Yeah. part part of the part of the problem, a very big part of the problem is that the the Israeli government in in recent times, like in

[15:38] the last 20 years, let's say, has moved so far to the right that that is also untenable. And it's moved that far to the right because of the influx of refugees and immigrants from Russia, Ukraine, and the United States. those Jews coming from from those three countries have been have been conservative to a point that the Israeli populace had never seen before. Long gone are the

[16:11] days are the days when German Jews, Polish Jews, French Jews moved to uh Palestine and then and then Israel after 1948 and had a socialist government all sang Kumbaya around the campfire. Those days are gone. these Russians and Ukrainians that run the country now will stop at nothing short of pushing every Palestinian out.

[16:42] >> What is it about that part of the world, Ukraine, uh in particular, if you look at that the map, you know, I'm not I'm not just calling out Ukrainians. I'm just saying that that area of the world, what is it about that part of the world that creates such radical radical fanatics? I mean when you look at the history of that region and who came from there, right? The Austria, Hungary, Ukraine, right? You got Hitler came from that area. Ben came from that area. Uh you have the early the earliest Zionists that were the big terrorists were from

[17:13] that area and immigrating down to Israel and they're all from that area. >> What is it about that area that brings >> hyper nationalistic >> racist, you know, leaders? You're talking about going back even as far as 100, 110 years. Remember, the Ukrainians threw flowers at Nazi troops when they entered the Soviet Union >> in 1940. Flowers. They threw flowers at

[17:43] them. And you're right, Bandera uh was a a Nazi who was perfectly happy to march in lock step with German Nazis. You know, it's it's the culture there. Scholars will tell you that it was a reaction against Bolecheism and that very well may be true because the Bolsheviks brought, you know, famine and, you know, pestilence and war. But come on, people, it was a century ago. It's time to move on. >> Yeah. >> Otherwise, I I can't explain it.

[18:13] >> I I just I you know, and when we do look back at history, and I Yeah. looking back a hundred or so years, I mean, this is where kind of the worst of the worst come from that region of the world. And it it's almost like and and then they spread out like I said they were the earliest Zionists that were the terrorists that went to Israel and created the nation you know precursors to the creation of Israel >> blew up the King David hotel >> right I mean that's they were from that area they were all from that area and there's something about and this is what you know when people talk about the Russia Ukraine war they talk about u you

[18:44] know Putin saying we got to denazify the area or whatever and we and then we see very radical Nazilike mentality inside of Ukraine. you know, still very much prevalent, still celebrated. >> Um, I mean, Germany has always had a a beef with Austria for not doing more to acknowledge their role in the Holocaust. And, you know, they're like, "You guys need a little bit more, but you >> Ukraine did nothing." >> Even today, nothing. Nothing. Even today, just as an aside, Austria has the

[19:14] smallest percentage of Jews in Europe and the highest percentage of people who blame their problems on Jews. I mean that's >> Yeah, >> that's fascism. >> Yeah. Right. And they never rooted it out. So Germany says to Austria, "You need to do more to root it out. You guys haven't done enough." Well, Ukraine did nothing to root out their Nazi past. They did absolutely nothing. And it seems like that part of the world. Uh maybe maybe that is the issue. Like they've there's just never been a concerted effort to attack that hyper

[19:46] nationalistic. I mean, it just seems like that's the birthplace of nationalism. When I look back at the era that that created the early Zionists and Nazi, you know, the bander, like that whole, it just seems like there was a growing mentality amongst the people that's that spread a little bit and it was just this hyper nationalist, a home for just our kind, you know, we wanted >> and and look at it this way. Oh, yeah. I think you're I think you're 100% right. And look at it this way. Why try to change that when the United

[20:19] States says in 1945, "Hey, all you Nazis, we're happy to take you guys. Uh, listen, the doctors, the engineers, the rocket scientists, we have this thing called Operation Paperclip, come on in. We're going to take all of you." And then the Israelis say, "Oh, you're you're Jewish, but still kind of Nazi. That's okay. We can work with that. Come on to Israel. So long as you're Jewish, we don't care what kind of politics you have. And then here we are just self

[20:49] flagagillating and wondering how in the world we got ourselves in this position. >> Yeah. Well, that's and that kind of brings us back to Syria and al-Qaeda, right? I mean, it's like here we, you know, here we are. History once again, you know, we just keep propping up and funding and and scratching the back of people that ultimately are radical. and later on this is just going to hurt us. I mean I just don't understand. >> So with Syria in regards to Syria,

[21:19] >> we don't I mean what B so you're saying the United States has no benefit out of I mean what what didn't matter? What did it matter to us anyway if Assad was in power or if al-Qaeda is in power? But it does seem like, you know, our so-called greatest ally for our so-called greatest ally to put in power, the group that we have been telling all the American people, this is why we were going to war in the Middle East, the war on terror, that we had to fight al-Qaeda, that al-Qaeda attacked us. I mean, we're the only country that has triggered an article 5 with NATO and that was 911. We

[21:52] blame it on al-Qaeda, >> right? We say al-Qaeda did this to us and now we're cheering on at the behest of Israel al-Qaeda taking over Syria and we're like I guess we'll just shake hands and call it you know let bygones be bygones. I mean I don't understand >> it's it what has happened that has allowed >> it does it >> defies belief. Listen, I listen, I'm I'm as I'm as willing as the next guy to to recognize changes around the world, but this isn't this isn't a change that's

[22:22] worthy of our support. It's al-Qaeda for heaven's sake. They can pick whatever name they want. But do we really think that we want to be in business with al-Qaeda? What I hope has happened here is that, you know, like my son when he was 9 years old, he recognized that there was no good guy. He recognized he recognized that he didn't have an interest in who the winner was anyway so long as there was a good fight. And perhaps the White House and the State Department backed off and just decided

[22:54] we're going to let the Turks and the Israelis figure this out because they're the ones that have the more immediate um interests uh in who leads Syria. We really don't care who leads Syria. We're happy with the fact that the Russians are pushed out, with the fact that the Iranians have been pushed out, and with the fact that that the Israelis essentially have decapitated Hezbollah. Hisbala as a fighting force no longer exists. It's going to take years to rebuild. And so, if the Turks want al-Qaeda and the Israelis are cool with

[23:25] al-Qaeda, then what do we care? We're just going to let them go with al-Qaeda. I I will say I was disturbed with this with this um announcement a couple of weeks ago that we're going to reopen the American embassy in Damascus. That's a little bit too much dog on recognition of al-Qaeda for my taste, >> right? >> You know, and it's like all the conspiracies around 911. I know that a lot of um you know there's a lot of blame being pointed at like Israel or something, but now I'm like I don't know. I think al-Qaeda did it. I think that this goes to show al-Qaeda totally

[23:57] did it and they were playing the long game. They were like, "Guys, 25 years from now, we'll have our own country. Just wait. You know, let's do this, and I swear to you, it'll play out. In 25 years, we'll have a country." >> And here they are. >> Crazier things that happen. >> That's their reward for all for for that. I mean, it's >> so so insane. Um, >> I went to college with this. >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> No, no, no. Go ahead. >> No. Well, I just wanted to move on to Trump and his foreign policy in the Middle East. I you know there's

[24:29] it's hard to read the guy mixed messages right lots of mixed messages coming from him. >> What do you think of mixed messages? >> Yeah. Yeah. What do you you know he had a lot of big donors $und00 million from Miriam Add. He had a lot of other big Jewish Zionist and Christian Zionist donors um who really want to see >> uh you know the Palestinians driven out of Israel or you know they they want to see Israel just as a one big Jewish nation. What do you think is but then he says you know on his first day in office

[25:00] when he was asked um do you think the ceasefire will hold the first thing out of his mouth was probably not it's not our war and then he says it's not our war. Um, what do you think he's What do you think he's going to do in regards to Israel? Are we going to still fund them, give them all the bombs they want, and continue on, or what do you think Trump's going to do? I know it's probably hard to guess because he is so murial, but what do you think? >> He is very murial and and very unpredictable. Um, but you know what? I think I like that right now because Joe Biden was

[25:31] very predictable and there was never any chance that Joe Joe Biden was going to stand up against Israeli genocide against the Palestinian people. Joe Biden was in up to his neck in Israel's uh war crimes uh and and attacks against civilians in Gaza and in the West Bank for that matter. So to think that that Joe Biden was somehow this man of peace who was gonna figure out the Middle East uh fight, it was it was a fool's errand. I was pleasantly surprised by two

[26:01] things. I was pleasantly surprised by the fact that that Donald Trump said that it was likely that the ceasefire would not hold and he criticized Israeli war crimes. That's the first time that's first time since George HW Bush that a president has criticized Israel in a meaningful way. >> Yeah. Um, and second, you know, he takes a lot of heat for nepotism, of course, and deservedly so in many cases, but his appointment of Tiffany Trump's father-in-law, who is a

[26:33] Greek Orthodox of Lebanese origin, a billionaire named Bros, as the special as his special envoy for for middle for the Middle East, excuse me. Mhm. >> I thought was actually an inspired choice for a couple of reasons. The Saudis always always insist that the US ambassador be a political appointee, not a diplomat, because they want somebody who has direct access to the president. Well, who better to have direct access

[27:03] to the president than his kmbaro? There's not an English word for that. That's the Greek word, but you know, kari and you know what I mean. Um, >> yeah. Yeah, this guy's family-in-law. >> This guy's family. All he has to do is pick up the telephone and say, "Hey, you know, this is what we need to do in the Middle East." Um, the fact that he's that he's not Jewish and not a not a an unrelated businessman, I think, is actually very positive. And so I'm kind of excited to see what initiatives might

[27:34] be uh uh begun in the Middle East, whether there is a plan for Palestine, whether there is a plan to smack the Israelis down a peg or two, especially as they move into the West Bank. I think we ought to give the Trump foreign policy team, whether it's at the White House or the State Department, the benefit of the doubt for the first, you know, six or 12 months and see where it goes. Yeah. Yeah. It's certainly going to be interesting. I do think that Trump has, you know, one thing I noticed when he

[28:04] was when he was asked that question about the ceasefire. Um, and he said, well, I mean, the place is destroy, you know, he he said the place was destroyed. You know, the pictures of the place, it looks terrible. And the way he says it, the look on his face is not the way like Netanyahu's face would look, you know, like like gloating, like look what we've done, you know? He looked he looked like have you seen the place? You know, it's it looks you know his the look on his face was shocked. >> And I also think he has a real genu I

[28:35] think he genuinely has a real soft spot for children. I think he genuinely >> does not like to see dead babies. And I think that >> I think that's exactly right. >> That really has I think he's like this has to stop. He's reading the same news that we're reading that there are two million people on the move in in the biggest mass refugee migration since the the end of the Second World War. This is an area of 2 million people with not a single working hospital.

[29:05] There's not enough food. There's not enough water. There are no medical supplies. And there's no plan either by the Israelis or the Americans or you know NATO or whomever the European Union to do anything meaningful about it. And the guy's a human being. He's not bound to policy the way the way Democrats and Republicans who happen to be professional politicians are bound. And so, like I say, I I I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that maybe as an outsider looking in, he can

[29:37] actually come up with a plan. >> Yeah. >> I hope. >> Yeah. Let's hope. Let's hope. Uh certainly. I mean, he's difficult to read because he does like to talk tough and I that moves me to Russia. Um he loves to talk tough. He likes to say, "Do you better come to the table and talk to me or else, right?" That's kind of seems to be >> Yeah, it seems to be his, you know, that that's how he I guess it's the art of the deal. I, you know, just bully them to the table and then you start to negotiate. Uh, so he kind of made some

[30:07] comments towards Hamas, like, "Oh, it's going to be terrible." And I think he probably said the same thing to Israel, like, "Come to the table or I'm cutting you off." You know, and what we're seeing now is he's saying to the Russians, um he just recently said to the Russians, "Come to the table or we're going to sanction the hell out of you and you're going to have economic destruction hit your country like never foreseen." Which I Yes. >> I mean, do you think now I see how that might work with the Palestinians and the Israelis because you've got some serious leverage there with you could cut off the Israelis from weapons. You really

[30:37] could do that. And the Palestinians are being destroyed. So, they're obviously already uh very frightened with what's going on for them. But Russia and Ukraine, um, can you play, do you think that he can play that same game with Putin >> and have Putin actually say, "Oh, I'm shaking in my boots. Hold on. Let me get to the negotiation table." I mean, do you think that's going to work? >> Well, I I'll give you a two-part answer. I think that in the in the near term, it could work for a while, so long as he can um as so long as he can control

[31:10] Republican politicians on Capitol Hill. The only leverage really that he has over Russia is his ability to continue supplying Ukraine with arms. We know that the Republican party is pretty solidly opposed to continuing to supply Ukrainians. Um >> yeah, >> I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I think that what world leaders were talking about, you know, three years ago, uh is what is going to come to pass. and that is that

[31:43] that the end of this war is going to be the Russians keeping the Donbass and Crimea. The Ukrainians jumping up and down and saying we win, we win the war, even though they didn't. >> Um, Ukraine will not become a part of NATO, but it will become a part of the European Union. And uh, and that's going to be the end of it. These two countries can't bleed each other forever. There's there's an end point and there are only so many troops that the North Koreans are going to be able to send in. And by all accounts, Russian casualties are

[32:13] high, right? Russian morale is low. Ukrainian morale is low, too. But if you've got this neverending spot of money and arms and weapons systems, you can keep that up for quite a while. But I think this is what's going to happen. I think that that Trump is going to force the two sides into talks. Even if they're indirect talks, he'll probably negotiate something on the QT with with Putin. The Russians will get to keep the the Russians speaking areas that they now control and Crimea.

[32:44] Everybody declares victory and they go home. >> Yeah. Yeah. I only see Putin going to the table because he wants to go to the table. He wants to go to the negotiation table. I don't know if this whole like >> Exactly. Right. >> Oh, we're going to crush you if you if you don't. I don't think that's going to work. I don't think that's why he comes to the table. He's like, I just want to have this conversation. I think it's on his terms. >> Um, >> and may I add something on that point, too? >> Yeah. >> I think I think you raised a very important point here. Uh, and and that's the issue of sanctions. These sanctions

[33:15] are practically unilateral. I mean, it's just us in the European Union. But if the Chinese are ignoring them and the Indians are ignoring them and they just signed this new big deal with the the Iranians that was 20 years in the making, the Russians can live perfectly well without the United States and the European Union. If we don't want to buy Russian gas or the Europeans don't want to buy Russian gas, the Chinese and the Indians are very happy to buy Russian gas. I happened to go to Hong Kong uh last spring on a business trip and I was

[33:45] surprised that so many places don't take Visa and Mastercard. They have this thing called it's like Panda Card I think is what it was called. And uh a Chinese contact explained to me, "Oh yeah, we use Panda Card. It's just the same as Visa or Mastercard, but it the transactions not routed through New York. So in the event that the United States puts sanctions on China, now the Chinese don't care. They don't use Visa and Mastercard. They don't use the American banking system. Well, the Russians now have adopted the same

[34:16] program where we can put we can put sanctions on Russia from now till, you know, the end times. It's not going to make any difference. They couldn't live without us. And it's because we've overplayed our sanctions hand over the years. I remember even when I was still at the CIA, we were threatening the Iranians with sanctions. And I said to a colleague, "How many more sanctions could there possibly be? We've been sanctioning them since 1979, and we're still coming up with new sanctions. That doesn't make any sense." >> Well, the Russians have learned that

[34:47] lesson, too. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think it'll be good to see that one. And I know that during the um one of his meetings, you know, Trump just kind of rattles stuff off and I think he had mentioned the casualty numbers for Ukraine and Russia and the casualty numbers were something like >> 600,000 or 700,000 on Ukraine side and 800,000 on the Russian side. To be clear though, I think when we say casualty, we mean injury and death, right? That's not just >> correct. Correct. And I think the actual

[35:17] numbers for both of them are half that. I think he exaggerated but but his his basic point that this has been a catastrophic conflict is true. >> Mhm. >> How many of those do you think are death? >> Oh, I'm I'm going to say a quarter. If you look at previous conflicts, deaths have been about a quarter. And you know, in in places like Afghanistan and Iraq, we were we were lucky because our um battlefield medicine is so much

[35:48] more sophisticated than other countries when it comes to traumatic brain injuries where where those soldiers would have died during the Vietnam War or even into the 1980s, they're able to be saved now even though they have, you know, lifelong uh traumatic brain injuries. The Ukrainians and the Russians don't have that kind of of luxury, that kind of advanced medicine on the battlefield and a lot of those soldiers die. >> Yeah. Hopefully that one ends um that conflict. Hopefully we don't get into anymore.

[36:19] >> Yeah. Trying to think where else in the world are we are we um having issues like there's uh I mean Trump is talking a lot about purchasing you know Greenland. >> Yeah. Did you see there was a >> spree? >> Oh yeah, he is. And he and he used the word expansion which scared the daylights out of the Panameanians. >> And then uh a a Danish member of parliament uh said f you. >> Yeah. >> F you. He said Greenland's not for sale.

[36:50] Listen, we already have military bases in Greenland anyway. So, I think he's, you know, I I have a friend who used to be the the chairman of the Republican uh party in Texas, and he told me something last weekend that just made me laugh, and he said, "Trump doesn't have any designs on on Greenland." Trump likes to throw these grenades into the middle of the room because it distracts the media from issues that are more important to him, like confirmation fights, for example, or his tax bill. let people

[37:21] spend their time or waste their time arguing about Greenland and the Panama Canal while he gets this tax bill passed. >> Yeah. And the Gulf of America. >> That's true. The Gulf of America. He signed Yeah. He signed and Mount McKinley. He signed executive orders on the first Listen, nobody nobody's going to call it the Gulf of America. I had to chuckle. Yeah. When I was at the CIA, um I used to complain that that analysts who didn't speak Arabic would use the

[37:52] full formal name of um of countries and cities. Like for example, uh uh Bahrain, everybody knows the country Bahrain. In Arabic, it's actually al Bahrain. Kuwait is al Kuwait. The city of Doha in ger is adoha or al-bas in southern Iraq. Nobody says that. Only CIA analysts say that because it's in the the official gazette, right? >> Um uh

[38:23] so then because they don't speak Arabic and they don't hear Arabs saying it, they they use these these antiquated formal names. Well, >> yeah, >> the internationally recognized name of the Gulf of Mexico is the Gulf of Mexico. And it doesn't matter how many executive orders Donald Trump signs, it's not going to be the Gulf of America. It's gonna be the Gulf of Mexico forever, >> right? Let's talk about the CIA. Um, we've got a new appointed director, John Ratcliffe. What does a director of CIA actually do? I mean, what's the

[38:55] significance when you get a new director in there? >> Yeah, it's a big deal. It's not as big a deal as it used to be um before the creation of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. Um, but it's it's a big deal. You know, let let me explain the the differences between CIA director and the DNI. The DNI, director of national intelligence, is the nominal head of all 18 intelligence agencies that we have in government. And I say nominal head because really what the DNI

[39:27] controls is the budget and the president's daily brief. That's it. Nobody goes to the DNI to say, "Hey, let me tell you about this uh idea for a covert action plan that we have, or we're going to go over here and do this, or we're going to open a secret base over here." The DNI isn't even cleared for some of that information. All the DNI does is the budget and the president's daily brief. Um, >> where do they get the brief? I mean, they have to get the brief from the agencies, right?

[39:57] >> From the from the CI. the the yeah the PDB used to be a CIA only publication only and now it's been opened up to the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research and to DIA. So their their analysts are able to contribute articles and because the the PDB staff, the editors now sit under the ODNI, they are the ones that accept and reject and edit whatever they think the president needs to see the next morning at 0700. So that that's nice, but it's

[40:29] not terribly important. The budget's more important, but the problem for for the DNI is that is that all but two of the intelligence agencies that fall under the DNI are DoD agencies, right? We're talking about NSA, DIA, Army Intelligence, Navy Intelligence, Air Force Intelligence, Marine Corps Intelligence, DARPA, all these different organizations that are supposed to be intelligence services.

[41:01] They're all actually just adjuncts of the Pentagon. So, the Secretary of Defense is in charge of them. That leaves only the budget, which is secret for ODNI. Now, the CIA director is running operations, running analysis, running R&D for science and technology, um, briefing Congress and responding to Congress. The CIA director is the one that shepherds the CIA budget through the uh, congressional oversight

[41:31] committees. Even though DNI is supposed to be on the flowchart higher than CIA director, the CIA director is far more important. Look at it this way, too. In the last 50 years or so, about half of the presidents have made the position of CIA director a cabinet position. DNI is not a cabinet position. It's never been a cabinet position. >> Isn't it now though? >> It could be on the whim of the president, >> right? But isn't that um Tulsi Gabbard

[42:03] is the one that is slated for that role, right? >> Correct. Yeah. But he hasn't said whether whether she or Ratcliffe are going to sit in on cabinet. >> Oh, >> in fact, I I don't think I'm almost positive that CIA director was not a cabinet position in Trump one and was not a cabinet position under Biden, but it was under >> the benefit. Well, what is the what is the difference? I mean, if you're going to be a cabinet level or not. I mean,

[42:35] one thing I could think is you don't have to go through the Senate confirmation hearing if you're not a cabinet position. >> Well, you do. Uh, C CIA director does and DNI does, but CIA deputy director does not. >> Okay. So, >> you know, and I'm glad you brought that up. >> Cabinet versus not. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's just do you want this person in on every decision or do you not want this person in on every decision? Like if if do you want the do you want the CIA director sitting in a meeting to go over your your you know housing

[43:05] subsidization policy really or whether or not you're going to end the the the uh Department of Education. It's kind of a waste of time. And then, you know, for all these years too, really since 19, well, since the 1980s, um, the FBI directors been jumping up and down and saying, "Well, how come they get to be in the cabinet and I can't be in the cabinet?" Then you have that to deal with, too. >> Seriously, it's it's so pathetic. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, you're saying that the director of

[43:36] the CIA is still more powerful than So, John Ratcliffe will be more powerful than Tulsi Gabbard in the new administration? >> By far. Yeah. By far. And you know, this leads to another thing, too. Uh there was a rumor in Washington just a couple of weeks ago that Amorillis Fox Kennedy, uh Bobby Kennedy's daughter-in-law and and his campaign manager was going to be named the deputy CIA director. And I have to admit, I went on a couple of shows and said I thought this was a fantastic idea because she had been for many years a deep cover CIA officer. She

[44:10] knew how the organization worked from the inside. But Senator Tom Cotton, the conservative Republican from Arkansas, said, "Oh, no you don't." Tom Cotton has always wanted to be the CIA director. He thought he was going to be CIA director in Trump won. And uh Mike Pompeo was was chosen instead. So So Cotton sent word to the White House that he would block Emorilus Fox Kennedy from being the CI director. Well,

[44:40] >> now the the word is that's okay. We're going to make her the deputy national security adviser. Well, the national security adviser ranks above both the CIA director and the director of national intelligence. So, she's going to be the deputy national security adviser for counterterrorism, which makes her at least as important as the CIA director. trying to understand this flowchart. It's >> hard. A lot of the lines are dotted. They're not straight.

[45:12] >> Yeah. Well, and it it just seems like, okay, you know, I would think my So, so you're thinking that she's going to get NSA or sorry, what was it? >> NS >> NSC deputy. >> Oh, okay. And has that not been named? That's deputy. So, who is the Is there a secretary for that one? Is that a cabinet position? No, it's it's a cabinet position, but it is not subject to congressional um confirmation because it's an executive office of the president position. So, that is uh

[45:43] former congressman Walls of uh Florida, three-term congressman, longtime member of the of the intelligence committee. Actually quite a very good choice. Somebody who knows the way, you know, the sausage is made. >> Yeah. And I think she would compliment him very well. >> Okay. >> She would be under him as the deputy. Yeah. >> You know, this leads to another thing too. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry to interrupt. John Brennan, when he was the deputy national security adviser for counterterrorism came up with this thing called the kill list. So

[46:15] every Tuesday morning at 9:00, a small group of intelligence leaders would meet and they would drop a list of everybody who was to be killed that week with drones. Um, I I'd be interested to know if um if the Trump administration continues that it's clearly a violation of international law. None of these people have ever been formally accused of having committed any crime. Yet, we're sending drones all over the world to just murder them. If they're as bad as we say they are, we should charge

[46:46] them with a crime. >> Um, we don't know if they're going to continue that policy or not, but she would be in charge of it. Do you think um do you think and by the way there's a lot of a lot of I think criticism of Amarillis Fox uh Kennedy because of somebody who's been in the CI you know there's they look at her and they say oh she was a CIA person so she cannot be trusted. What do you say to that? I mean you're you're a guy that a lot of people trust. You were in the

[47:16] CIA. I mean there's plenty of others who were in the CIA but some will say once in CIA you're never out. You know, once a spook, always a spook. So, >> I'm so glad I'm so glad you said that. I'm I love when people ask me that question because I I'm able to rant for a minute. Um I said on Twitter the other day, some somebody tweeted at me once CIA, always CIA. And I responded that that is the most intellectually lazy statement that a person can possibly make. Maybe I should call Ed Snowden and Ray McGovern and Jeffrey Sterling and

[47:49] you know half a dozen other people who are the the family of Philip Agy and say, "Oh, guess what guys, we're all apparently still in the CIA." Um, >> sure. There are a lot of people who have been in the CIA who um are true believers. I debated I debated a former CIA officer recently, u uh Andrew Bamante, who came off like he was doing a two-hour long infomercial for the CIA. So, sure, there are a lot of people like that out there. She's not one of them.

[48:21] She had a good career as a nonofficial cover officer, deep cover, very hard job, and very risky and dangerous. And she just decided, I don't like the way things work here. I'm leaving and she left. So, she's seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. And I I would consider her to be more of an outsider now than than the insider that she used to be. Somebody who can make changes based on a personal experience, changes that that would be good for the country. Um, I

[48:53] would take her over, you know, Tom Cotton or or Mike Pompeo any day. >> Yeah. What do you think of the CIA? I mean, do we need do we still do we need it? Do we need the CIA? >> No, I don't think so. There is so much redundancy in intelligence. Well, I'm going to give you a two-part answer. First of all, there's so much redundancy in in intelligence, we really don't need a CIA. The Pentagon has an organization called Defense Human Services. Hum

[49:24] meaning human intelligence. They recruit spies to steal secrets. Well, guess what? That's exactly what the CIA does. So, you've got DoD doing the same thing. You've got the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research and the Defense Department's Defense Intelligence Agency doing um analysis, exactly what the CIA's Directorate of Intelligence does. So, there's redundancy there. You have NSA that's doing all of the the Intercepts. You've got DARPA that's doing all the futuristic cool scientific inventions

[49:56] and stuff like that. You have myriad organizations that are doing simpler things like bugs or disguises or forgeries or, you know, any of the stuff that a CIA officer needs to do on a day-to-day basis. So, when you've got multiple organizations all doing exactly the same thing, isn't that kind of a waste of money and manpower? And secondly, and this is more important, the CIA has gotten literally every major global development wrong since 1947.

[50:31] from the creation of the Berlin Wall through the Suez crisis, through the Vietnam War and and the fall of the Iranian government and and the loss of the sha of Iran through, you know, Iran Contra and missing 911 and everything in between. They just got it wrong. So why would we even want to keep going? this gigantic multi-billion dollar organization

[51:02] that doesn't really provide anything to the national security. I worked for uh I worked for Ambassador John Negropanti when I was at the United Nations in New York uh more than 20 years ago. He later went on to become the director of national intelligence and as the ambassador to the UN, he was in a quasi cabinet level position. And so he was allowed to receive a PDB briefing every day. And he once told me that not one single time did the

[51:33] president's daily brief tell him something that the Washington Post and the New York Times didn't tell him an hour earlier. Do we really need it? >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's so interesting. So interesting. So So that's kind of an Well, the the interesting I think the most interesting part of what you just said is I think a lot of people would be cheering and saying, "All right, the CIA is gone." Let's say Trump comes out and says, "Ah, we're going to get rid of this. We don't need it. We're going to get rid of the CIA." People would be cheering saying, "All right, you know,

[52:04] it's a new day. It's a new dawn." And really, it's like, no, they've just now the the spies are everywhere else. They just move his eyes around. >> They just divide them up. Divide them up and send them someplace else. That's it. >> Yeah. So, it wouldn't actually end anything. I mean, nothing would change if we got rid of the CIA is what you're saying. >> You know, George Washington once said that gentlemen do not read other gentlemen's mail. >> And so, we didn't have an intelligence organization in our country until the passage of the National Security Act of

[52:36] 1947. And even then it was almost blocked because it was opposed by Jay Edgar Hoover. It was only because President Truman lied to Hoover and said to Hoover, "No, no, you need to support this passage because the CIA is going to be a division of the FBI." It was a clear lie, but Hoover believed it and he said, "Oh, okay. Well, if I'm going to be the director of both the FBI and the CIA, then okay, I I'll lift my objection." and it passed. And then

[53:08] Truman was like, "Ha, fooled you." And the CIA and the FBI have been at war ever since. >> Yeah. And what was the whole point of the CIA? It was to spy on the Russians, right? Is that what the initial >> That's exactly right. It was to spy on the Russians. >> You know, Jim Jim Pavitt, he was the deputy director for operations um for whom I worked when I was a briefer. And uh he used to say the same very simple thing all the time and I repeat it all the time now in interviews because it's so true. The job of the CIA is to

[53:38] recruit spies to steal secrets and to analyze those secrets to provide the policy maker with the best informed analysis. >> Now they often fail at that but that's the whole reason at at its root to have a CIA. So the CIA, the the spies themselves are not actual spies. They're recruiting other spies in other countries to do the spying. Is that >> Yeah. You know, Yeah. We all have these

[54:08] wonderful stories that we like to tell once we leave about the cool stuff we've done, but the truth of the matter is if if you've got blonde hair and blue eyes, you're not going to infiltrate al-Qaeda, right? You're going to have to recruit You're going to have to recruit some guy from Yemen or from Egypt to do it for you. >> Yeah, that's that's really how it works. You recruit the spies to steal the secrets for you. >> My favorite family member, he's passed away now, but he was my great uncle and

[54:39] uh my my grandmother's uh brother, and he was in the CIA. He was one of the very earliest first guys in the CIA. He never said he wasn't, you know, we we all we found out uh especially later after he died, you know, then it was it I think then it's like no longer it's kind of like the family secret that's not really that secret sort of a thing. Like we all know Uncle Alton was in the CIA kind of a thing, right? >> And he would just disappear for weeks on end and then come back with like random Russian people.

[55:10] >> Oh yeah. >> You know. Oh yeah. I mean, it's a little bit of an exaggeration, but it was it was it was like that. I mean, it was he would disappear for weeks on end. And uh and my grandma's like, "Oh, he's off Russia again or something. The CIA, he's involved in all that stuff." And >> Oh, I can't tell you how many times >> how many times I went on on missions and I was instructed to throw away all of my money before I left the country because I couldn't risk anybody seeing like, "Whoa, whoa, where you got money from

[55:41] XYZ country? what were you doing there? Uh, you can't risk that. >> So, at the airport, just as I was getting ready to, you know, board the plane, >> which was oftentimes in a fake passport from some other country, so that there's literally no record of me having been in that country. I'd have to throw away all my money and all my receipts. >> Yeah. >> Wow. Were you able to tell people you were in the CIA when you were in it? >> No. >> So, what do you guys say? I mean, he said his cover was always that he worked for NASA. I think is what he said.

[56:13] >> That's a good cover. I think he said that's a good cover. >> Yeah. He's like, I work in I work for NASA. Yeah. >> Mine was the State Department. I would just say State Department. And uh if people pressed, I would say, ah, it's really boring. I'm involved in training. That's what he would say sometimes. >> Are you guys trained to say that? Because that's literally what he would say. It's really boring. I just do paperwork. I >> That's it. You want to make the response Yeah. Yeah, you want to make the response so boring that people don't follow up. I'll tell you what, I was on a plane once from Milan to Sophia, Bulgaria. And I never talk to people on

[56:46] planes. I just listen to music or read a book or whatever. And I'm sitting next to this this enormous guy and he would not shut his mouth for the whole dog on flight. And he kept talking and talking and finally he says, "So, what do you do for a living?" I said, "Uh, I I'm a businessman." Oh, what kind of business are you in? I said, 'I import export, you know. Oh, what do you import and export? Ah, whatever is going to make me some money. I said, I whatever it is, I can get a deal on. Oh, like what? He

[57:17] says, and he just wouldn't stop. So, I said, look, I smuggle women and cigarettes from Eastern Europe. You happy now? >> And he says, >> and that was actually true because >> Yeah, right. It pretty much. No, it wasn't true. I And he goes, "I don't approve." I said, "Well, I didn't ask your approval, did I? How about shut the up?" And then he didn't say a word the rest OF THE FLIGHT. >> OH. >> So sometimes that's what you have to do. >> Now I know if somebody starts giving me

[57:47] vague answers, I'll be like, "Ah, CIA. Okay, got it." >> Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Training and imports and and Yeah, we do a lot of uh >> Exactly. Yeah. >> Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. But it so yeah, I guess that's that's um unfortunate to know that if we got rid of it, it doesn't really go away. It just shifts. It just it just morphs into a different agency. I think that >> that's right >> because a lot of us want to see that power, that kind of clandestine power. Um we somehow we've got to bring the

[58:17] power back to the people. >> We've got to >> Yeah. And it's >> we've got to And you know how we do that? >> We we do that with with real oversight committees. Here we've got the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, which for a brief period from 1975 to about 1986 were actual real oversight committees telling the CIA, "No, you can't do that. That's a violation of international law." And now the committees really are are little more

[58:49] than cheerleaders for the CIA. And I'll give you an example. Um, I went to prison for 23 months after blowing the whistle on the CIA's torture program. And when I got out of prison, I was invited to a dinner at the Greek ambassador's residence. And Senator Ron Weiden of Oregon, the Democrat of Oregon was at the dinner and um, and he came up to me and he said, "Hey, welcome home. So glad to hear that you're out. You

[59:20] know, blah blah blah. You did this brave thing." And I said, "Senator, with all due respect, I got to tell you, I actually expected a little bit more support from you." And he got angry and he said, "Look, it took all my energy just to not lose my security clearance." And I thought, "Oh, you're afraid of them. You're not overseeing them. You're afraid of them." Well, if he's the only one on the Senate Intelligence Committee

[59:53] who's viewed by the the media as, you know, the one guy who's going to stand up to the agency, what does that say about all the other members of the Senate Intelligence Committee, not to even mention the House Intelligence Committee? They're all cheerleaders. We need real people. We need we need Daniel Patrick Moyahan to come back to life or Frank Church or Ted Kennedy who had the guts to stand up to these guys and and those those members of Congress just don't exist anymore.

[1:00:27] >> Do you have time to just tell us one cool story from when you were in the CI, you know, the story that you guys all leave with? >> Wow. >> Tell us the story. >> Well, you know what? I I will tell you in advance. I've been very very fortunate in recent weeks. I am going to start in two weeks a 100 event one-year speaking trip around the world. Um you can more about it at >> Yeah. Now what is this what does this mean? a speakers bureau in London has hired me

[1:00:58] to to do 100 an evening with John Kiryaku and I'm going to tell the these kinds of stories and uh yeah I'm going to do a hundred different venues over 365 days all around the world every continent but Antarctica and uh >> wow that is going to be so cool you to be able to travel like that and just tell cool stories around a campfire basically I can't wait. >> That's sort of that was so cool.

[1:01:29] >> I've told this one story in particular that it's funny. I never thought about it being terribly, you know, attentiongrabbing until I was told that it was, but um I mentioned that I I worked for the deputy director of the CIA um as uh as his executive assistant. It was it was the highest level job I ever had in my life. And um my job was to keep him briefed all day long on events around the world. The events being, you know, we're going to attack Iraq in six months. And uh and the

[1:02:01] director of the CIA, it was George Tennant at the time. So the night before we attacked Iraq, uh we had a secure video teleconference called a civit secure video teleconference in um George and I were in the CIA's uh secure video room and the meeting was chaired by the vice president, Vice President Cheney. Uh, Condisa Rice participated. Colin Powell was there, the commander of Sentcom, uh, the head of the NSA, the national uh, I already said that uh, the

[1:02:35] the, um, deputy secretary of state. Anyway, it was about eight or nine, the principles, the the top officers um, in intelligence chaired by the vice president. So, the vice president, Dick Cheney, u starts off by asking um General uh General Franks, Tommy Franks, to give us something called the Order of Battle. I always hated the Order of Battle briefings because they're so boring. I I would just like sit there

[1:03:05] and he would say, "Well, he's got this map of Iraq and uh he's got like we've got elements of the first infantry uh here and we have the 12th army corps is there and elements of the third army whatever they're moving here and moving south and there are these arrows and it never made any sense to me. This is what DI DIA exists for. This is all they do. So George is sitting at the head of the table and um and I'm sitting directly behind him taking notes and he's just

[1:03:37] sitting there listening to the briefing. And then General Frank says his exact words, "If all goes as planned, we can run by August." And very calmly, George reaches forward, turns off his microphone, and he turns to me and says, "Did he say Thran or did he say Baghdad?" And I said, I said, he said Thran. And he says, "Have these people lost

[1:04:08] their minds?" And then he turns back and he turns the microphone back on and he just sits there for the rest of the briefing. So the briefing ends. I go back to the deputy director's office and he says, "How'd the briefing go?" And I said, "Did you know we were going to invade Iran?" And he said, "Are they still talking about that? We're not going to invade Iran." He said, "These people know nothing about the Middle East. They know nothing about Middle Eastern history. They think that they're going to throw flowers at us when when we cross the border. We're not going to invade Iran."

[1:04:39] And we didn't because they didn't throw flowers at us. No, >> that's the White House. >> Oh my gosh, that's the White House for you, John. It's so great having you here and talking. You You're just so interesting. I'm so excited for you to be able to go traveling. When do you start that? When do you pack your bags and get on the road? >> Oh, yeah. I start in two weeks. So, my first speech is going to be in Belfast in on the uh 31st, and then I'm in Dublin on the 1st, and then I'm in

[1:05:11] I'm in Manchester on the 2nd. I'm going to be back home for a few weeks, and then I do 40 dates in the UK. So that's England, Scotland, Wales, and um yeah, and then off to Australia, New Zealand, then Canada, then continental Europe, the Persian Gulf, and Southeast Asia. And then start the whole thing all over again next year. It's It's going to be a lot of fun. >> That is going to be so great. All that traveling and seeing and and eating all the food. I'm so

[1:05:42] Do you need an assistant? I'll go with you. >> I WOULD LOVE I'D LOVE to have an assistant. I need a I need a conversant because it's supposed to be an evening with John Kuryaku. I need somebody to sit next to me and say, "Hey, what about >> I'll ask you questions." >> Exactly. >> May I add one other thing? >> I can travel the world. That would be so fun. >> Why not? >> All right. Tell us about how are you doing that and this new TV show you've got going on. How is that going on? So, you've got a new TV show. >> Yeah, I have a TV show that has been so much fun. We've just we've just finished

[1:06:13] our first season. It's on something called Unified TV. It's unifyd TV. It's It's uh online. You can go to unified.com. And the show is called CIA Declassified. So, we take original CIA documents that have been declassified and we use them to tell um stories of these major international events that have never been told before. We start with the Berlin Wall. We go through international assassinations and the

[1:06:44] Kennedy murder and the Cuban missile crisis and all different kinds of things, the overthrow of the Iranian government in 1953. Now, in season two, we're going to bring outside experts in, other CIA officers, for example, to talk about these same issues and in some cases to talk about their roles in these issues. So, you can find all of it at uh Unified TV. Again, it's unify D and I'm also on Substack. >> All right. Well, we do have the links those links down below. Um, but very

[1:07:15] cool, John. Thank you so much for being here and >> thank you, Kim. Such a pleasure about all these subjects. >> All right. Good to talk to you. >> Thank you. Bye-bye. >> Thank you for watching this clip from the full Kim Iverson show, which you can watch Monday through Friday, 5:00 p.m. Eastern, 2:00 p.m. Pacific at kim Iversonshow.com. See you there.
