Title: John Kiriakou-Unfinished Business: A Raw Exchange with a CIA Whistleblower
Show: It's Rainmaking Time!
Date: 2026-06-02
URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-xIjigjfJo
Duration: 1:10:27

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[00:01] This segment of its rainmaking time is dedicated to the whistleblowers of the world who never knew the extent to which their lives would be destroyed at every level. Thank you for your rare kind of courage and conviction. This is as much for your families who suffered with and for you. It's rain makingaking time.

[00:35] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to It's Rain Making Time. I'm Kim Greenhouse. I have waited so long for this interview, you can't even believe it. It's one of those that was a very, very long wait. I am so excited today to have our guest with us. I'm going to tell you a little bit about him. There are few like him walking the earth who have been through the kind of trials and tribulations on a financial, legal, government level. So I want you to listen closely because in our guest contains not just secrets but

[01:09] most importantly experience, expertise and wisdom about our real system. Not the one we think we have but the one we have. Our guest has served in the CIA from 1990 to 2004 when the government tried to put him in prison for 45 years. On October 23rd, 2012, he took a plea deal for 30 months in prison for something he didn't do. He's one of the few whistleblowers to be put in prison under the Espionage Act,

[01:41] and we're going to talk about that today. and he's a former CIA analyst and operative also specializing in the area of counterterrorism. He was a senior investigator for the Senate relations Senate Foreign Relations Committee and he was accused of leaking classified information uh which actually supposedly put him in prison. He refused to be trained in advanced interrogation tactics.

[02:11] He's part of the Government Accountability Project. He's written so many books. I'm going to name some for you. The Reluctant Spy: My Life and the CIA's War on Terror, Doing Time Like a Spy, How the CIA Taught Me How to Survive in Prison, How to Disappear Off the Grid, Surveillance and Surveillance Detection, The Convenient Terrorist, Lying and Lying Detection, and Remains of the Day. a definitive guide to historic cemeteries of

[02:43] Washington DC. There are more. He's been he's been on ABC. He's been in several documentaries. He's helped so many people understand how to navigate this realm and also provided solutions of what we need to do and why it's so important. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome one of the great heroes of the modern day, John Kirku. Welcome to It's Rain Making Time. I hope you said your name your last name right. >> You did. You did. Thank you for that, Kim. Thank you. It was very generous.

[03:14] Suppose divine intelligence comes to you and says, "John, you have three wishes, only three, to eliminate the abuse in the system on a government level relative to your experience and others in the CIA, dealing with the Justice Department, the legal system, the finances, the prison

[03:44] system, the whole kaboodleoodle. You have three wishes. What is your first wish? >> Well, I think the first thing that I I would have to do would be to re rewrite the Espionage Act. And I will say shout out to Ilhan Omar because she's working with a a good friend of mine to do exactly that. She's she's sponsored a a rewrite of the Espionage Act in two consecutive congresses. Now, they died a

[04:15] quiet death in subcommittee, but one of these days this thing is going to be rewritten. It has to be rewritten. Um, the Espionage Act was written in 1917, passed into law in 1917 to combat German saboturs. It doesn't even mention the words classified information because the classification system hadn't been invented yet. Um, it's never been meaningfully updated. It only talks about national defense information, but it never defines what national defense

[04:45] information means. So, it can mean whatever a prosecutor wants it to mean. Uh, between 1917 and the election of Barack Obama, three Americans were charged with espionage for speaking to the media. Just under the Obama administration, Obama charged eight people with espionage for speaking to the media. Six of us were whistleblowers. >> So, I would rewrite the Espionage Act so

[05:17] that espionage meant spying for a foreign power, not blowing the whistle on waste, fraud, abuse, or illegality in the federal space. I would pass a law to protect national security whistleblowers. We have a whistleblower protection law in the United States, but it does not cover national security whistleblowers. So, if you work for the CIA, the FBI, NSA, the Pentagon, you're [ __ ] out of luck if you decide to go public. >> Wow, I didn't know that.

[05:47] >> Oh, yeah. Most Americans don't know it. And um and I would make illegal the weaponization of intelligence. Um, Robert Jackson is a former attorney general of the United States. He's a former Supreme Court justice and former chief and chief uh prosecutor on the in the Nuremberg trials 1945 and 1946 of Nazi war criminals. And he said something that every firstear law

[06:18] student has to read. He he talks about the power of the federal prosecutor saying that the federal prosecutor is one of the most powerful people on earth because he decides who is charged or more importantly who is not charged with a crime. And he says every good prosecutor should see a crime and then charge the crime. No one should ever choose a man whom he doesn't like and then scour the law books looking for a crime with which

[06:49] to charge him. But that's what we do now. It was especially bad in the Obama administration. It was equally bad in the in the Biden administration where they used the Justice Department as a weapon, as a cudgel to punish people who whose politics they didn't like, whether it was on the left or on the right. And so those are the biggest changes I I would make right away. >> There was there was another one too. >> Well, there there is another one and it is it is the um

[07:20] the uh >> something application the something >> the proactive defense. It's the uh >> what's the >> one of those days? >> What's the word? I'm sorry that you're going to have to cut this out. [laughter] Um >> that's all right. My in my own case in the Eastern District of Virginia, Judge Leani Brickma set a precedent, a very important, very dangerous precedent where she redefined torture as providing national defense

[07:51] information to any person not entitled to receive it. Um, my lead attorney jumped up and said, "Your honor, are you saying that a person can accidentally commit espionage?" And she said, "That's exactly what I'm saying." Oh my god. >> So, there needs to be there needs to be sort of a there's a legal term for it that's escaping me right now. But it's like a proactive defense, an

[14:42] you've clearly never been in a prison if that's what you think. They don't do their round. I mean, some of them, yeah, they're going to go around every eight minutes, every 15 minutes, do their rounds. Others, we would see them at count time, and we would never see them ever again during the shift. Never. Half the time they're like this, mouths wide open, sound asleep, porn still on the screen, you know, or they're playing uh solitire, or they're on the phone with their girlfriends. They're not supposed to be on the phone. It's chaos in the prison system,

[15:13] >> which I'm sure you would love. I you would love to reform. I'm sure we'll get to that. Okay. So, all the people who felt and sensed and didn't accept the official story with Epstein and many stories connected to it. It's not just how he died in prison. What about what's the guy's name? Michael, who was the pathologist or the medical examiner? He didn't think it was a suicide. What do you think about that? >> That was the medical examiner hired by the family. The medical examiner from

[15:45] from the government said that it was a suicide. Yeah. And people were saying they were focused on the hyoid bone that in a suicide it's unusual for the hyoid bone to be broken. His hyoid bone was broken. You know, there are easy explanations for this kind of thing. They said, "Oh, the hyoid point is usually broken when somebody strangles you, but at the angle at which he sort of threw himself off the bunk, it would have broken the hyoid bone."

[16:16] >> Listen, killing him to keep him silent would do nothing >> because every everything was documented. Everything was filmed. >> So, killing him, >> I mean, there's no reason Wait a minute. Let me finish my thought. Yeah, >> killing him doesn't accomplish anything when everything is already on tape. Secondly, this guy was a two-time loser. He had already been convicted of of uh uh child sex crimes in 2006. He got a sweetheart

[16:47] deal. He wasn't getting any sweetheart deal in 2019. And he knew what he was in for. He was going to spend the rest of his life as a cho, a child molester in a prison. And because he was so highprofile that time he was looking at 40 50 60 years that time would have been set spent in solitary confinement. It was better to be dead than to be alive and in a 6x10 ft concrete cell. I believe

[17:22] very strongly that he committed suicide. And the reason I believe that is is that I knew people like him. I knew people serving sentences like that and they were always trying to commit suicide. >> I totally agree. I totally get that. I can totally get that. People wanting to die, you know, even to spend a year, two years, 5 years, eight years, 10 years, you know, not wanting to endure it or not able to endure it. So my qu my next question, since you're speaking from within the complex of the whole thing

[17:52] and where he really was in his cases, what about people that think black ops got in there? First of all, there's no such thing as black ops. That's straight out of the movies. >> It's not even a term that's used in the intelligence community. Secondly, do you have any idea the number of moving parts that would be involved in somebody going into arguably one of the top five most

[18:22] most difficult maximum security prisons in America. Making sure the guards were asleep. Making sure the cameras didn't work. Making sure no other prisoners saw any of them. The guy's got a cellmate. The cellmate doesn't even notice that anything's happening three feet away from him. They kill Epstein and then they get out scott-free. Come on. >> I thought they moved the cellmate. My understanding is they move this. Yeah, >> the cellmate was there. He was >> I thought they moved him before this.

[18:53] Okay. >> Either way, there's no such thing as [clears throat] black ops to be kid. >> There's no such thing as black ops. So there's no such thing as a mercenary team that would have worked with the government to do this. >> That's even more unusual. A mercenary team. >> Interesting. Okay. >> There's no such things. >> Okay. Interesting. In 2017, John was at the Strand bookstore in New York being interviewed by ABC News correspondent Brian Ross about his memoir, Doing Time Like a Spy. It's

[19:25] important to note that what John said back then in contrast to what he's saying here today on its rain makingaking time. Have a listen. The CIA, Brian, was set up to, as I say in the book, recruit spies to steal secrets and then to analyze those secrets and to provide the best possible intelligence to the policymaker. Now, it's a paramilitary organization. We have assassination squads running around the world killing people who have not

[19:55] faced their accusers in a court of law. Listen, you know, there was a mercenary team that that washed ashore in Venezuela about a year and a half ago, and the Venezuelans were just standing there waiting for them to arrest them all. And they were in a Venezuelan prison until they were traded for American uh American I'm sorry, for Venezuelan prisoners in America. Mercenary teams are even worse than these [ __ ] retards we have working in the prison system.

[20:26] [laughter] I'm serious. I can't believe you're giving these guys any >> any credit. >> No, I I think it is important. I I think it is I think it is important. Well, a lot of movies are predictive programming. It's not just like, you know, I mean, yeah, it sounds great. >> If you've got if if you've got some kind of inside knowledge that I'm not aware of, call your congressman or call the FBI. >> I if I did, I would never call any of this. You know what I'm saying? But I think on behalf of the public, a large part of the public that is tired of lies

[20:57] being told to them by the government, okay, about things that are going on, it was good that we addressed it and it's good that you addressed it. Let's pause here for a moment. In the nearly 600 episodes that I've produced and hosted, I've never done a commentary insert in any of them. And the reason I'm doing it now is my responsibility to the veracity of events,

[21:27] to this audience, and to the authenticity of the verified facts that demand it. That which was just dismissed deserves a closer look. Not because I need to be right, but because you deserve the complete record. So, here is what the documented evidence actually shows. You heard me reference, but I couldn't remember his name, the forensic examiner of Jeffrey Epstein's body, the guy who

[21:58] actually did this independently that was hired by the family. That was Dr. Michael Boden, former chief medical examiner of New York City, one of the most credentialed forensic pathologist in American history with over 5050 years of practice. He attended the 2019 autopsy obviously as a representative of Epstein's estate, but he didn't perform the autopsy himself, but was present. He observed the examination and reviewed the findings in detail. And here is what he

[22:31] found. There were three fractures, two to the thyroid cartilage, one to the hyoid bone. And Dr. Boden stated that in over 50 years of forensic pathology, he had never seen this pattern of injury in a hanging. His professional conclusion was that these were crushing injuries consistent with homicidal strangulation and not suicide by hanging. Now, here is what the government's own examiner

[23:02] found. Barbara Simpson, the New York medical examiner assigned to this case, was not present at the autopsy or the physical examination of the body. Her own assessment of the findings was inconclusive. She didn't declare it a suicide. Her boss, the chief medical examiner, overruled that inconclusive finding and declared the manner of death suicide.

[23:34] Let that percolate for a moment. The government's own examiner said inconclusive and yet was overruled by someone who was not present. Yet Dr. Boden, who was present, who observed the examination, who has over 50 years of experience, found three fractures consistent with homicidal strangulation, and said he never has seen this injury pattern in a hanging in his entire

[24:04] career. Two distinguished forensic voices directly opposed conclusions. The government's own examiner had doubts that were overruled. The question is not settled. A redacted version of the post-mortem report released months later confirm that Epstein's manner of death was initially marked as pending. Now, documents released this year under the Epstein Files Transparency Act have revealed why Dr. Christristen Roman, a

[24:36] New York City medical examiner who performed Epstein's autopsy a day after he was found dead, initially hesitated to rule that his death was a suicide because she wanted to be thorough. At least that's what she said. Dr. Boden maintains that his position is not about conspiracy but about scientific certainty and he argued that when a death carries this level of public consequence ambiguity should not remain.

[25:07] Now regarding the circumstances inside that prison including the cellmate and the monitoring failures addressed in this interview. The following timeline comes directly from the United States Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General Report, which was released June 2023. There are the government's own findings. No speculation, no conspiracy theory, just the documented record. On July

[25:39] 30th, 2019, the MCC psych psychology department sent an email to more than 70 staff members stating that Epstein needed to be housed with an appropriate cellmate. He was assigned one. On August 8th, 2019, the US Marshall Service sent emails notifying multiple MCC staff members that Epstein's current cellmate

[26:09] would be transferred to another facility the following day, August 9th. No one took action to assign Epstein a replacement cellmate, even though the require the requirement was known. On August 9th, 2019, at approximately 8:30 in the morning, Epstein's cellmate was transferred out of the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York with all of his belongings, and Epstein was left alone in his cell. Two SHU staff members

[26:43] later claimed they had notified supervisors about the transfer and the need for a new cellmate. Other witnesses did not confirm this and no replacement cellmate was assigned. Epstein remained alone and unmonitored for more than 20 hours. Now required 30 minute inmate checks stopped after approximately 10:40 that night. No proper cell searches were conducted. Guards later admitted to falsifying records.

[27:16] On August 10th, 2019, at approximately 6:30 in the morning, Epstein was found unresponsive in his locked cell. The OIG report identifies the failure to replace the cellmate on August 9th as one of the major lapses that contributed to Epstein being left alone and unmonitored. Additionally, among the materials released as part of the DOJ investigation into Epstein's network is surveillance footage from the night he died. Observers have noted what appears

[27:47] to be a missing minute in the video timeline. Officials have dismissed sinister interpretations and the missing segment continues to raise questions that have not been fully answered. The question is also, is that video even near or pointing to Epstein cell? That's a whole other question. And there's one more thing I want to mention here. In 2012, it's rain nicki time. Welcome Dr. Sir Wactt, certified anatomic clinical and

[28:18] forensic pathologist, clinical professor at the University of Pittsburgh, author of over 550 professional publications, and one of the only forensic examiners to challenge the Warren Commission on the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Dr. Wack had access to details about the true condition of President Kennedy's body that the public was prevented from knowing. He stood up when very few others would. That interview is in the It's rainmaking time archive.

[28:52] The question of whether official narratives about highprofile deaths reflect the complete forensic record is not a conspiracy theory. It's a legitimate forensic and journalistic question with a long and documented history of official accounts failing independent scrutiny. This segment with John Kuryoku has been sponsored by the Rainmaking Company at rainmaking.ch. There's a course I'm going to be giving

[29:23] that has to do with question formation, the art and science of forming great questions, but getting those questions to help you solve and deliver solutions and discoveries and create whatever it is that you want. Questions are energetic constructs and they set particles into motion. Go to rainmaking.ch and sign up for my course. This is Kim Greenhouse. Back to the show. But do you accept that there is a thing called a conspiracy? Not just a

[29:54] conspiracy theory, but that there are real conspiracies at work. >> Like what? >> I don't know. Do you accept that there are there is such a thing as a real conspiracy? Not just conspiracy theory. Can you can you give an example of one to the public? >> No, because I don't frankly know what you're talking about. In what in what realm? I mean, of course, there there are conspiracies, you know, every day of our lives in every country of the world. But >> Mhm. >> But what exactly are you talking about?

[30:25] >> I just wanted to ask you, do you make the distinction between a real conspiracy and a conspiracy theory? Because remember, I think there were many people talking about how they were told that they were using conspiracy theories years before the real thing was validated. So that's that's what that's the the essence of that question. Should we go to number three that the divine intelligence gives you three three choices to change the system? So you

[30:56] talked about the the espionage act. >> Yeah. uh and uh >> Justice Department. >> Mhm. >> And there was and there was something else in there. It's a long phrase, but you and I both had trouble remembering it. >> What were we talking about? Affirmative defense. >> Yes. Affirmative defense. That's a very important thing. >> This is very, very important. We don't have an affirmative defense in American juristprudence. You either >> I'll quote my own judge again. She said, "Mr. Kuryaku, you either did it or you

[31:28] didn't do it." and I believe you did it. Oh, okay. So, I'm screwed is what you're saying. I can't possibly get a fair trial. I I better take a plea. So, we need the ability to stand up in front of a jury especially and say, "I yes, I did it, but I did it in service of the American people, in service to the American people, and let me explain." And then let the jury decide if you've been properly charged or not. But we don't have an affirmative defense in America.

[31:59] >> What's number three? >> That would be number three. Number two was weaponization. Number three was the >> espn the weaponization is isn't that isn't that so broad that you know could be someone could feel or sense that somebody was weaponizing something. Trump President Trump says a lot of things were weaponized against him for years. >> I'm specifically talking about the weaponization of the Justice Department. >> How would that translate? Give give a couple examples if you could. >> Yeah, I'm giving you my example. Right. John Brennan doesn't like that I went

[32:31] public over torture. So he he writes a memo to Eric Holder and says charge him with espionage. >> That's weaponization. The Democrats don't like Donald Trump, so they charge him with 34 counts of, you know, failing to fill out a a form. That's weaponization. Is society better off because Donald Trump was convicted of not filling out 34 different forms? Come on.

[33:04] >> How would they get passed? How would these top three get passed if we're depending on >> They won't get passed. That's why we don't have them now. That's why it would we would have to rely on this divine intelligence figure to come down from heaven and give me three wishes. [laughter] >> I'm serious. You this was what you how you couched the question. These these issues can't be passed. They won't be passed. >> Is it because of Congress and the Senate?

[33:34] >> Of course. >> And they wouldn't pass it because why do you think they wouldn't vote for any of these to be passed? Can you imagine running for for Congress and getting on the campaign trail and saying, "I want to make it more difficult to charge people with espionage." >> But that's not what it would be about. It would be just having it be that they're spies. What's wrong with the simple? >> I know that, but how are you going to how are you going to explain that to the voters in your district when you're when

[34:07] you're going to say we're we're going to charge a lot fewer people with espionage because they're not working for foreign countries. They're working they're not working. They're they're providing information to the media. We're going to make it tougher. >> Like, how many votes is that going to win you? >> All I Well, it's it's all how it's sold, isn't it? Everything is how it's packaged and how it's sold and transported. Give me another thing another thing. The Republicans are are uh in control of the House of Representatives. Ilhan Omar is a member

[34:37] of the squad. She's a liberal Democrat >> and she writes this new law or she sponsors a new law that uh that Chip Gibbons wrote. The Republicans aren't going to pass Ilhan Omar's bill into law. She's Ilhan Omar. They don't even want her to be an American citizen. So there is no reform of the Espionage Act. It's just killed. It's politics. >> Maybe it's because of who it's coming from. What if it were coming from a different >> That's what I'm saying. If it was coming from, you know, a senior Republican,

[35:08] then it might have a chance of being enacted into law. But coming from a a left-wing Democrat, never. >> But if in fact if in fact I think it was you, tell me if I'm wrong about this. It I think somebody in one of your interviews asked you, is there a deep state? And you said yes, but you can call it whatever you want, you know. >> Yes. >> But there there is a more hidden hand operating things than than we interact with that we understand and that's there. >> So if that is so, and I accept that

[35:39] that's so, it's pretty obvious to me it's so the Congress and the Senate would be getting pressure from this hidden hand and from donors and from funders, right? >> No. pass it, right? No, >> not necessarily. No. >> Okay. >> Because because the deep state by definition is is an executive branch entity, it wouldn't necessarily have any pull over the legislative branch. The House and the Senate both have both are

[36:12] home to the oversight committees, whether it's, you know, the intelligence committees with oversight over the CIA or the foreign affairs, foreign relations committees over the State Department, the armed services committees over the Pentagon. They there wouldn't be that kind of of interaction. It would it would be more like overseer oversee, right? The deep state, like I said, does exist,

[36:42] but its pressure is on the president or on people in the Justice Department rather than on Capitol Hill and vice versa. So you don't you don't feel or think in our lifetime any of the three keys could could get through could be done since those areas are mechanisms of abuse and abuse of power of criminality

[37:13] of a one-sided justice system. >> I think Donald Trump is really going to try to change things. I I really believe it. But I also believe he has to act quickly because um because the 2026 midterm elections right now at this early point in early January don't look very good for Republicans. So if he's going to if he's going to be able to enact legislative changes to address these problems, he's going to have to do it soon.

[37:46] Probably by fall at the latest. What would you do with the justice system to see a transformation or would it require these three things in order to be in the justice system? >> I think we need to we need to legislatively do away with weaponization and I think that we need to come up with hard and fast rules that prohibit politization. >> I'll give you another example. I'll give you another example.

[38:17] um January 6th. Whether you believe it was a riot, an insurrection, a peaceful demonstration, or a group of tourists, I don't care. I don't care what it is. Certainly, crimes were committed, but no crimes were committed where people deserved 20 and 25 and 30 years in prison. Our sentencing here in the United States is draconian.

[38:48] Our European allies can't believe what kind of wild west uh dictatorial style sentences we give people. It's shocking to them. And then we spend literally not one red scent on rehabilitation. Our money in the justice system is spent on punishment, >> right? >> Not on education or on or on um

[39:18] training or rehabilitation. And that's why our recidivism rates are so high. Listen, if you get if you get arrested for selling drugs and you get 5 years or 10 years in prison, first of all, you're going to get one year in Europe and then a whole bunch of education and training so you don't do it again. You get 5 years or 10 years here and you get out after five or 10 years and they haven't taught you how to read and they haven't taught you plumbing or small engine repair or electronics or whatever and

[39:50] you go back to the same neighborhood you came from. What are you going to do for a living? You're going to do the only thing that you know how to do and that is to sell drugs. >> Right. >> We we have to change that. When you when you refer referring to Europe as only like a year, is there a certain part of Europe? Are you talking the EU or the UK or any particular area? >> All of Western Europe, but especially the Scandinavian countries, >> they don't even put most people in a in a prison. They'll put you in a group

[40:20] home that is an apartment with a functioning kitchen and, you know, bunk beds in the bedrooms or whatever. And they teach you how to be a productive member of society. And we don't do that here. It's all about punishment. And if they don't like your politics, they'll put you in something called a CMU, a communications management unit, meaning that you have no contact with the outside world. >> Oh my god. >> Mhm. >> Did they do that to you? >> No. I was in a modified CMU and I easily

[40:52] got around it because they're all [ __ ] retards. [laughter] Let me ask you, when you left the CIA and you came out and and you went to prison, then you came out of prison, were you afraid? >> No. >> Of of the agencies going after you again or trying to make your life miserable? >> No. Never. Is it is it because of your experience in the CIA that you just you know you have and you've Yeah.

[41:24] >> In part, but also in part that I knew that I was right and they were wrong and I knew that the country would eventually come around to my point of view, which it did. Six weeks before I got out of prison, I called my wife. Um I was allowed to speak to her every other day for 15 minutes. So I said, "How was your day?" She said, "It was great." I said, "Really? What made it so great?" And she said, "The Senate torture report came out today and

[41:55] it proved that everything you said was true." And then John McCain got up on the floor of the Senate and said that the country owed me a debt of gratitude because without my revelations, the American people would never have known what the CIA was doing in their name. So it was all worth it. totally worth it >> with DARPA and additional technologies that have imshed

[42:25] and have come into the world and are working at warp speed from Palunteer to others. Do you are you concerned about the direction, the amassing of AI, the data centers, what it's doing to the environment, the the mass surveillance that's now being ushered in, including, sorry to say, from the Trump administration. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm very worried. >> I'm worried about Stargate. >> Yeah. I'm worried about all of it. Um, and I'm worried because at NSA they don't even make any pretext anymore to

[42:57] preserving the civil li the civil liberties of American citizens. Um, you know, it's a part of NSA's founding charter that it is not allowed to spy on Americans and it spies on every American. They intercept every phone call, every text message, every email, metadata on all of us and they just warehouse it in this gigantic facility in the Utah desert. And there are other facilities now as well.

[43:27] >> Sure. >> They don't need court orders or warrants, legal permissions to collect this data. They just do it and then they say to us, "What are you going to do about it?" And what's even worse is now the FBI doesn't need a warrant or a court order. They just call NSA and say, "Hey, what do you have on uh on Kim Greenhouse? >> Send it on over." >> Mhm. And they do this with private companies, too. Uh in my own case,

[44:00] in my own case, they uh they didn't need to go to court and get a a want. They just went to my ISP provider with a what's called a national security letter saying, "Give us everything you have on John Kuryaku." And Apple said, "Sure, here you go." And gave them everything. So, yeah, I'm very worried about it. >> And um um I forgot his last name. There's a guy named Mike on Twitter on X that has been

[44:34] tracking the whole surveillance communication um censorship complex and how long it's been going, how long it it has been amassing. And that is also concerning the the censorship uh what do you call it? um tentacles that and structures that are in place with nonprofits and profits to censor communication. Is that worry you in the same way surveillance does?

[45:05] >> Explain a little bit more. [snorts] >> In other words, I think his name is Mike Benz has been >> Mike Benz. Sure. >> Okay. So, Mike Benz has been tracking this whole censorship complex, the whole development. Yeah. >> I can't even listen to it anymore because it's so upsetting and it just >> that bothers me very much. Yes. Yes. >> And that's why, you know, so many of us thought that that with Elon Musk taking over Twitter and renaming it X, we were going to finally have, you know, this platform for for free speech. And and we don't. We don't.

[45:38] Meta is way worse. You can't say anything on try criticizing Israel on Facebook or Instagram. Forget it. You're done. So, we have to turn to places like Rumble and Discord, but then, you know, people go to the opposite extreme and uh and promote hate crimes. So, I'm not sure where we go from here, but I I will say I don't want anybody um I don't want anybody standing in the way of free speech unless that speech is

[46:08] advocating crimes, right? >> Yeah. Like free speech should not include the freedom to post, you know, child pornography, for example. >> Sure. >> Or to threaten someone's life. >> I would oppose that, of course, but otherwise it shouldn't be up to Mark Zuckerberg to decide what my position on Israel should be. you know, he was one of the first people right before it's either right before or after Barack Obama was elected that flew to Germany and met with Angel Angala Merkel to talk

[46:42] about hate speech and to create a domain Zuckerberg of hate speech. It was Zuckerberg, Mark Zuckerberg. I remember you'll you can see it online actually. >> And I've done so many shows with Dr. Edwin Vera who's a constitutional master really he's been practicing for over 50 years highly published and so articulate >> they've created this dichotomy there's you the civilian over here and then there's this governmental establishment

[47:13] and if you say anything against the governmental establishment you are some kind of sedicious individual or insurrectionary or whatever it is anti-government person when they don't seem to realize that the real government of this country is not M it's you and they have besided you with propaganda to prevent you from understanding this. [music]

[47:44] The minute you start that domain you can start throwing in all these things is hate speech. So I come from a Jewish family, but if God forbid I said I'm not a Zionist, that now alone could be considered hasty. >> You're an anti-semite. Yes. >> I'm an anti-semite, right? I come from a Jewish >> self-hating Jew. Uhhuh. >> Self-hating Jew. The whole kaboodleoodle and then I need to go to Israel to have whatever I need to do. >> But what I'm saying is that it's scary that we live at a time where you can't even say, "No, I'm not for this other

[48:15] thing that's going on. I just come from a Jewish family or I come from a Catholic family or I come from this family that now that's also weaponization of speech. Do you see what I'm saying? That's under the category of hate speech. Right? >> So to me it's a it's a mechanism of >> entrapment to me to ent trap speech >> and to me it violates the first amendment you know in a major major way. So between the ushering in of

[48:45] uh AI and DARPA like systems and other type systems that the government's using and misusing and the censorship complex coming in all dependent on who's in power. That's scary. That's scary to me. >> Yeah, that's scary to me as well. Do you feel that you and I are going to live at a time where we're not even allowed to have conversations like this or be considered enemies of the state? Remember that

[49:16] movie enemies of the state? >> I think I think we're headed in that direction without any doubt. You know, there have been calls in Israel recently um for the US government to to restrict um our first amendment right to freedom of speech. I think that is so unbelievably dangerous. It is >> improper meddling in the internal affairs of a of a sovereign country. And um I'll go to my death to protect my

[49:46] freedom of speech. >> I think I will too, John. >> I think the I think the fight's already on. >> It's already on. But the thing is that because of partisanship, even though we're watching we're watching the force come in, right, to try to take away our rights to communicate. Can you imagine to communicate? Um, it seems to be not really being dealt with in this administration. It's not really being dealt with the

[50:16] free speech. It's a mixed bag, isn't it? >> Any any administration. >> Yeah. Well, for sure. They're all either either unwilling or unable to address this issue. >> Yeah. I mean, and look at the lobbies. Look at the look at the defense community. >> Contractors, >> the the contractor community. It's just we're talking about a multi-trillion dollar industry. >> I say all the time, it's not an accident that before 9/11, the highest concentration of millionaires per capita

[50:48] was in Silicon Valley in Northern California. And after 9/11, it was in Washington DC. Everybody got rich because because of 9/11. And they want to make sure that that cash cow keeps giving that that that goose keeps laying its golden egg. And um and so they don't want any changes any changes to the status quo. And the status quo is to protect their interests, not to protect the interests of the American people. How do you live today with everything you've gone through knowing what you

[51:18] know and have joy and peace? I by the way I will tell you you are one of the greatest storytellers I've ever seen of the modern day. >> Oh jeez. Thank you. >> I have had more fun listening to your stories. >> Oh, which are always engaging. It's like a >> you know you're on a tight rope. But do you have joy and do you have peace today seeing what's going on, having been through what you've gone through, knowing what you know, truth in your spirit and in your heart, do you have peace yet

[51:50] mixed? >> Not really. >> Not really. Yeah, I can tell. >> I will say that I'm a very proud Greek American and I go to Greece at least once a year. I try to get there twice a year and I can actually feel my heart rate slowing when I walk out at the airport. >> Mhm. >> That's the joy that I get. >> Yeah. >> If if you could I know you have children here. Okay.

[52:21] >> If you could and you can pick anywhere. Give me your top three places you would want to move to if you could move out comfortably with no friction, etc. out of the United States. Would you move out? >> No. I I still think that the United States is the greatest country in the world. I think that it's troubled. >> Um, and because it's troubled, we all have to fight to make it right. So, I I would not leave even if I had the opportunity. I have five kids. They all live here in the United States, of course, but >> but no, I I would not leave. This is my

[52:53] country. and uh and I'm proud to say that I served my country and um I want to continue to serve it in any way that I can. Uh but I I wouldn't leave. There are there are places that I really genuinely love um with Greece being at the very top of the list. But you know, you look at places like the UK. The UK is in far worse shape than we are. >> Oh my god. They're arresting young people for fascist dictatorship over

[53:23] there. Yeah, you get arrested for a tweet. You get arrested >> and older women, older people just like putting up a a flag. I mean, it's bad. >> If you if you complain about Israel's um human rights violations uh in the Palestinian uh areas, whether it's Gaza or the West Bank, um you can get a felony charge for material support for terrorism in the UK. >> Oh my. Wow. >> Yeah. Just ask, you know, Richard Medhurst. They just dropped the terrorism charges against him and all he

[53:54] did charged with terrorism. All he did was write an op-ed saying, "Hey, the Israelis shouldn't be violating all these Palestinian human rights." Terrorism. Yeah. So, I mean, England's great. I love it there. I love London. I love the countryside. I have many friends and my host family from college is there and >> but they're far worse off than we are. >> And look at what's happening in the EU.

[54:25] It's not much better. But the UK is pretty severe severe. >> It depends on the country. There's real there's real disagreement within the EU >> on these issues. >> Yeah. >> What's for example the the uh the greatest press freedom scores come out of places like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland. Um, and the worst, well, the the lowest rated country in the entire EU for press

[54:56] freedom is is Greece. So there every country has has problems. >> Are you ready for a change in the financial system to everything go to the blockchain? Are you concerned about it? >> I am concerned about it. Yes, >> I am concerned because I think all it does is it gives government yet another tool with which to surveil us and to control what we do and say and where we go. >> Yeah. >> Digital currency. >> I'm strongly opposed to digital

[55:27] currency. Yes. Strongly opposed. >> And then I have the three last questions because I know that we started a little bit late. Do you accept that there's something called telepathy? Yes and no, I guess. Yes, there are certainly people who seem to exhibit some sort of ability that other people don't have. >> No, in in the respect that I don't believe that it can be

[55:59] codified or or or weaponized. The CIA worked on that for for decades. >> I I didn't even mean that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And >> I just mean, do you accept that there's telepathy? There's telepathy between people, between people and animals, between animals and animals. Do you accept that? >> Between animals and animals? Without any doubt? 100%. Yes. Scientists told us I I got such a kick out of this that it's stuck in my mind all these years. Scientists have told us that they finally learned that the reason why

[56:30] geese fly in a V and are constantly honking is because they're talking about who gets to lead the V next. >> Oh, I love that. >> Seriously, >> that's great. >> And they switch places, >> you know, but that's why they're honking because they're communicating about who gets to be the first in the V. >> Cuz I talked to animals. I was just wondering if you know what what what you think about the telepathy. I interviewed a guy who said that dogs know when their owners are coming home and did a 30-year study at Stanford Research Institute. I forgot his name. He's from England.

[57:00] >> Wow. >> And um and I interviewed a lot of people in the SAI program in remote viewing and controlled remote viewing, etc. So, I just wondered what you where you were at about at least telepathy part, you know. >> Yeah. The CIA could never get the remote viewing thing to work. They tried for decades. Well, for they tried for 23 years and they just gave up on it. I interviewed the top people at the uh Army Intelligence on the which was the original project Stargate by the way.

[57:31] >> Yeah. So why don't they do something then? >> What are you waiting for? >> They are they've been saying that since 1952. It's time to get on the stick. >> Well, I don't know. You know, uh Lynn Buchanan had to sign non-disclosures with NSA and the CIA um and others. Bert Stubblebine, General Bert's doublebine and others. So they have been working for many years. I I just don't think they can be public about their findings in a way that you had to be very careful about. >> Yeah. >> People that we've all seen on on

[58:03] podcasts. So it's time to put up or shut up. either you're going to come out with the information or shut the [ __ ] up. Because all they do is they just they cloud the space with their half-talks and halftruths and innuendo. Either there's remote viewing or there's not remote viewing. But >> there is remote viewing. >> Well, then then why don't they come out and show us? >> They have. >> No, they haven't. >> I've taken it. I mean, they talked about

[58:34] it. >> Yeah. I don't know. I don't know who you've who who specifically you're referring to, but >> any of these people who claim to be able to to to initiate remote viewing. They say that they do. I want to see the demonstration. >> Okay. I'm going to hook you up. >> I want to see it. Put it on Put it on YouTube. Not behind. >> I Oh, you're talking about that? Yeah. Well, that actually there's a group out of um Hawaii that you join by membership

[59:06] and they they do it right there. They record all their sessions and they they write, you know, the diagrams and they do the writing and they say what they see. >> Yeah. Well, that to me is like crossing over. That guy John, what's his name? Who was debunked? >> Who? >> The the guy that had the show called Crossing Over where he would read. >> Well, that's You're talking about a psychic. I'm not just talking about a psychic. To me, it's all the same thing. The CIA did this from 1952 to 1975. They failed. We have all these people coming

[59:37] out of the woodwork saying, "Oh, you know, CIA, DARPA, NSA, NSA doesn't do remote viewing. NSA intercepts electronic signals." >> Right. Right. Well, the people I'm talking about, I hear what you're saying. It's like a big conglomeration of maybe misinformation is what you're saying in a way. >> I think just about all of it is misinformation. >> Yes. Oh, well I think >> anybody anybody who says we've done it, we've accomplished it, highly classified, take my word for it. I tell them get lost.

[1:00:08] >> You know what I would say that um you're probably right about 70% of what you're referring to, but they're distinct. You know, being psychic. I'm psychic. You're psychic. How much? You know, who knows? I was a former tournament tennis player. I'm sure I could put you on the court and you could play, but you I don't know how good you'd be. You know what I'm saying? So, you'd probably be average unless you play. Do you play? >> No. >> Do you play tennis? Okay. All right. Well, a lot of people are okay. They can run around with their tennis shoes and their racket, but you know, and there are people that train in something and

[1:00:39] they're very good. I I met the people that trained and are very good. >> And um >> Okay. Well, then why don't they do something for the country? >> They have. They have. >> Show us. >> They Well, you want to know, right? I'm happy to put you in touch with these people. No, I mean, show us like put it on YouTube, put it on TV so we can see. >> Do Do you understand that they're not supposed to know there's a process? Do you know about remote viewing? Like what the process is or you don't care? You're just

[1:01:09] >> No, what I'm saying is remote viewing is is [ __ ] Project Stargate was a legitimate United States government intelligence program that ran from the early 1970s through 1995, funded and operational for over two decades. It was originally an army intelligence program, not solely a CIA program. And that distinction matters. It did not run from 1952 to 1975. As John stated, the

[1:01:41] record shows otherwise. Lynn Buchanan and Paul H. Smith are Fort me trained Army intelligence veterans who worked with the actual operational program under strict scientific protocols. General Albert Stubblebind was a direct overseer of the program. These are not television psychics. They are primary sources with the documented operational and military records who sign non-disclosure agreements with the NSA

[1:02:11] and the CIA. This is not behavior of charlatans. Russell Tark was one of the original scientists at Stanford Research Institute who developed and tested the remote viewing protocols for the government. Dr. Elizabeth Rouser brought rigorous scientific credentials to the independent investigation of remote viewing. Its rainmaking time has conducted original interviews with Lynn Buchanan, Paul Smith, Russell Tar, Dr. Elizabeth

[1:02:43] Rouser, and others who were directly involved in this work. Those interviews are in the archive. We invite you to listen, watch, examine the record for yourself, form your own conclusions. You can also learn remote viewing from Lynn Buchanan's group, Paul Smith's group, and others. The question of what human consciousness is capable of is not settled by dismissal. It never has been. We present

[1:03:16] this for your consideration. and back to the internet. >> It failed repeatedly over decades and now we get these people who are like it works. Take my word for it. You got to join my club if you want to see it. Like I think I think that >> I've seen enough charlatans over the years and especially since I've left the CIA that I just don't see it with my own eyes. I'm not buying it. >> But here's my question to you and you

[1:03:47] know that's fine. And I got what you said. Uh, if in fact you could see it working, would you be open and willing to see it? >> Sure. >> And I'm not talking about a psychic standing up. I'm talking about the actual remote viewing work. >> Yeah. >> Which is different. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Definitely. >> That's good to know. You know, I would say I would say one fallout and we all have them in our lives from different things we've been through of your life experience and

[1:04:18] professional experience is coming out very skeptical. >> Oh yeah. Because everybody's either a crazy person or a liar. I I a colleague of mine set up a Zoom call for me recently from some guy, some nut >> who claimed to be able to do all these different things. He was going to work with us and do all these different things. This guy was in prison for 20 years and he told me that he was writing for the president's daily brief from his prison cell. I said, "No, you weren't."

[1:04:50] "Yes, I was." And no, I said, "You weren't. First of all, you don't have access to classified information." The president's daily brief is 16 tight pages of the most highly classified information in government. You didn't have access to it in your [ __ ] prison cell. He's a convicted pedophile, no less. No less. And uh so no, and I ended up just hanging up on the call because the guy was clearly just a nut. And I get that all the time. All the time. You

[1:05:20] should see my inbox right now. I'm going to tell you 25% of the hundred or so emails that I have in my inbox right now are from lunatics and I quickly tire of it. >> Have you ever heard of those uh Native American circles, their healing circles, and you go into this sweat lodge? Have you ever been in a sweat lodge? The prison had a sweat lodge for the Native Americans and they ended up having to take it down because instead of going in there for religious services, they were going in there to have sex and so it

[1:05:53] just didn't work out. >> Okay. But be but beyond the prison experience, have you ever been to a sweat lodge? >> No. >> Okay. I think a sweat lodge is in order for you. [laughter] >> No. >> It's not going to make me believe any of the lunatics. >> No, I don't mean believe. I'm not talking believe. I'm not talking believe. It just sounds like it sounds like, you know, we are the sum total of our experiences hopefully with wisdom and we've transcended a lot of things. I get it. I can't I I can't imagine even

[1:06:24] being you walking into the day due to the fact that I named my company, the Rainmaking Company, and my podcast, It's Rain Making Time, out of the profound inspiration from the native peoples and their tribal traditions. I must comment about the reference our guest just made. The Swat Lodge is one of the most sacred ceremonial practices in Native American spiritual tradition. It's been used for at least a thousand

[1:06:55] years by archaeological record and by oral tradition far longer across many nations for healing, prayer, purification, and community. I have personally experienced the sweat lodge in many different areas around the country and in my experience, it's profound. We honor what was just dismissed and we move on. And back to the interview. >> Do do you enjoy the film that you're trying to make now? Did you make that film? I know you're raising money for a film, right? Is a documentary film?

[1:07:27] >> No. >> Wasn't there something? There was like a website that you were putting together pieces of a film. >> Yeah, it it was preempted. Um I I recently sold the rights to my first book to a to a major studio. >> Oh, congratulations. [clears throat] >> Thank you. And so we'll see how it plays out. >> Does that mean they're going to make it and then bring you in or >> That means they bought the rights to make it. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Did it worry you to sell it? Are they going to tell the truth or are they going to cloud it with a bunch of

[1:07:57] things? >> Well, it's based on the book. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Very good. It's a pleasure to meet you. It's been been a long way. There's many many things to discuss, [laughter] >> John. It's rain makingaking time. >> It's time for healing, togetherness, unity to fix things while we still can. I appreciate it. >> Sounds like a plan. My pleasure. >> Thank you so much. Thanks for being here. How do people get a hold of you, John? >> Oh, the easiest way is Well, I'm on I'm

[1:08:29] on all the platforms uh on Facebook, Instagram, X, uh Rumble, and uh johncuryaku.com. I can also be reached through ivyscyber.com. Um they the emails there dump straight to me. So, uh it's easy. >> All right. Now, are you still teaching in Spain? I know you were you were teaching and are you doing consulting too? So security consulting or >> I do I do security consulting. I'm teaching at the University of Salamanca

[1:08:59] and the graduate school. Um the graduate school has a program in intelligence studies. So I I teach introduction to intelligence and the history of terrorism. And I also teach a course on intelligence and um cyber security at um Bay Path University in Massachusetts. >> So you're busy full-time. Your children must be proud of you. >> Three podcasts. >> Yeah, I hope so. I hope so. That would be nice. >> Yeah, it's a pleasure to meet you. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you,

[1:09:29] John. >> Thanks for having me. [music] Heat [music] up

[1:10:03] here. [music] Heat. [music] Heat.
