Title: John Kiriakou Exposes Which Celebrities Are In The CIA… | One Night with Steiny
Show: One Night with Steiny
Date: 2026-07-21
URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLMBpWK0fG8
Duration: 3769

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[03:37] that is a good exercise, actually. >> I got a lot out of it. >> Yeah. >> did. And you know what funny thing is, too? One of the interesting sort of sidelights was that you get to play poker with some really important people. >> Oh, yeah. >> And you made good contacts that way. >> Yeah. Uh what was the craziest game you ever experienced? Or was it all pretty similar? >> There was one game I was in a game in I was in a game in Eastern Europe one time. All CIA guys. And there was a dispute over

[04:07] Oh god, I forget. Like somebody had a full house and somebody had four of a kind or something like that and it ended up in a fist fight. >> Four of a kind wins. >> Four of a kind wins? Yeah. Nobody ever gets four of a kind. >> No. In five card >> draw. >> Wow. >> And it ended up in a fist fight and we had to separate these guys. We're like, "What are you doing?" >> Yeah. >> It's a It's a poker game. >> People don't like to lose money. They get tilted and they they lose their minds. >> And there's We're talking about like $20 in the pot. >> That See, I don't understand that. That's That's crazy. But that Now that I

[04:39] think about it, poker game seems like a really good place to infiltrate. You can get a lot of information. >> Yes, you can. You're sitting there for hours with a person. They're practically captive. >> People are drinking. >> Uh-huh. >> Had Did you Did you ever have to do some kind of activity like that? >> Oh yeah, but usually it was our idea. >> Yeah. >> Definitely. >> So I also wanted to talk about something that I've been dealing with lately called honey potting. >> Yeah. >> How I I've met multiple girls. Like before we did this last night, I couldn't sleep cuz girls I've been with

[05:10] recently I can't tell if they're spies or if they're actually with me for me. >> Mhm. >> Caught this girl going through my phone. >> Uh. >> How do I know? She's from Spain, too. So she's foreign. >> Jeez. >> So I don't know how to handle this situation. >> Right. >> Do I go straight into interrogation? How do I How do I go about this to see if she's actually with me for me or if she's a spy? >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Okay, so let's start at the beginning. >> Okay. >> Honey potting is the use of women >> Mhm. >> to try to extract information or to infiltrate an

[05:42] organization or get close to somebody who has information that a hostile service wants. >> Yeah. >> The US stopped using honeypots in the '70s because a a strategic decision was made that if you want if you want a relationship that is really going to prosper blossom it's got to be a relationship based on trust. >> Mhm. >> Or based on money. >> Right. >> Not a relationship based on coercion or hostility.

[06:12] >> Yeah. >> And so we stopped using honeypots in the '70s. The Russians use them, the Chinese use them, the Israelis use them, the French use them. >> Still today? >> Still today. So it's entirely possible that you could be facing a honeypot. It could be that she's just really really jealous and suspicious. >> She keeps asking about my finances. >> Oh. >> Yeah. Family, stuff like that. And I'm just like it should be an easy read though, right? Shouldn't you be able to tell if this girl's completely out of your league? Like there's must be something up here.

[06:44] Like how what's a tell? For me that would be a tell. Did you ever have that experience where you were onto a woman or you felt like like the paranoia started kicking in? >> I I just talked about this the other day for the first time. Somebody asked me that question. Um it was in Dubai. I was at a hotel called The Address. It's the tallest hotel in the world. >> Yeah. >> It's like a hundred stories or something like that. And there's a bar at the very top. So everybody goes up there. And I mean, how old was I at the time? I was in my 40s.

[07:15] And this you know 22-year-old Miss America looking you know incredibly gorgeous woman came up to me. And just started talking. And I was like, "Sorry." I said, "I don't want to be rude but this isn't for me." Because she was either a $2,000 a night Russian prostitute >> Mhm. >> or she was a honeypot. >> Mhm. >> And [clears throat] I just I wasn't going to >> $2,000 a night? >> I'm not >> Too expensive, right? Yeah. [laughter] >> No, not at all. Never?

[07:45] >> No, listen. I was in training one time. >> once? >> No. >> Really? >> Never. >> Me neither. I've never done that. Guys have done that [ __ ] and it's just like embarrassing. >> It's embarrassing, right? >> yeah. What are you doing? What are you doing at the old folks >> at the agency tell me, "Oh, we all pay for we just pay for it in different ways." And I'm like, "Okay. All right. That's I I could see the point." But I was in training one time. We were at the farm, which is the CIA's famed, you know, training facility. And it was a whole bunch of different guys. It was like from CIA, FBI, DIA,

[08:16] all these different organizations. And we would always go to the officers club after training to have a drink and play pool or whatever, watch game. And these guys started started talking about this cat house that they used to all go to in Mexico City. >> Mhm. >> And I was like, [clears throat] "Wait a minute." I go, "You guys pay for And they said, "Of course." And I said, "That's so gross. Like I don't even know what to say." And one of the one of the FBI guys says, "No, no. You walk in and whatever you're

[08:47] in the mood for, you can have a black girl, an Asian girl, a white girl, whatever you're in the mood for." >> Yeah. >> And I said, "But that doesn't make it any less disgusting." >> I think they're trying to just cut out the and get straight to the point. >> Yeah. >> Like, "Hey, I'm not going to pay for dinner or whatever." So, in their head they're doing the mathematics, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a transaction. >> I mean, it kind of sounds like you were left out of the group chat on a few different topics. >> I suspect. >> Yeah, I think you were. Wait, but I want to hear I want you to finish the story about what happened in Dubai.

[09:17] >> No, I walked. >> So, you just immediately >> like, "Yeah, not interested." >> You felt like, "Okay." >> Yeah, she was she was dangling something and I I wasn't going to bite. >> So, will they commit to like months or years of a relationship? >> Yes. >> It'll it'll get that deep. >> are especially good at that. Where they'll go for years if they think it's going to result in something. Although, you know what I should say, the Russians do that as well. >> Did you have any colleagues that went through this? >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh my god. And what happened? >> is is there's a rule at the CIA that

[09:47] it's a it's written in stone. If you have what's called close and continuing contact with a foreign national, and that means you see them regularly or you're sleeping with them, you have to report it to headquarters. You have to. When I was the um executive assistant to the CIA's deputy director, you used to see I used to see all these cables coming in. And to their credit, officers would, you know, report like all the time. Usually on a Monday morning, or in the Middle East on a on a Saturday morning cuz the weekend is Thursday and Friday. Um

[10:20] yeah, I slept with so-and-so last night, and here's her information. And we run a name trace and like, no, she's just a local girl or every once in a while you'd find, well, no, it looks like she was born in Russia. She had some kind of government service or she was in training at some government school or and then you have to back off immediately. >> Oh my god. What's the penalty if you don't report it? >> Oh, you can be fired or even prosecuted. >> And you that that had to have happened a good amount of times. >> Without a doubt. And there there were a couple of cases where

[10:51] for example, I mean, it wasn't a Russian or Chinese. Let's say, and I'm just going to make this up for the sake of the of the argument. Let's say it's a uh I don't know. Saudi. >> Okay. >> Um you're going to have to either stop or resign. >> Yeah. >> And a lot of guys resign. And then they get married. >> Oh my god, dude. And they get married to the person? >> Mhm. No. >> Mhm. How the [ __ ] can you go through with that? >> time. >> Bro, how can you go through with that?

[11:23] >> We had one officer >> But that does not break the trust? >> Oh, yeah. >> How I mean >> Yeah, sure it does. You'll never work in government again, ever. >> That would really [ __ ] my head up. >> Yeah. >> I already go through enough [ __ ] with my girl, but I'm like, dude, that's crazy. That's insane to me. >> Without a doubt. I worked with this woman who had been a case officer overseas, and she recruited a guy, and she started sleeping with him. That's fireable. You can't do that. But she started sleeping with him, and then she reported herself. She's like, "Oh, I recruited this guy

[11:53] and I started sleeping with him." Headquarters is like, "What? You can't be a case officer anymore." They brought her back. Why they didn't fire her, I never understood. They made her an analyst. >> Really? She got a promotion. >> It kind of. >> Well, what year was this though? >> elevated. Well, this was '86. >> Okay, so it was more like a 40 in the room. >> '96. So, she comes back, she's an analyst, she's a lousy analyst. And then 9/11 hits. And

[12:24] we're all like standing there watching the TVs, you know, the Pentagon's on fire, and the World Trade Centers are collapsing. She's literally hiding under her desk, literally. And then one of the people that worked for her said, "What are you doing under the desk?" And then she grabbed her purse, and she ran like a scared cat, and they fired her. They're like, >> [ __ ] >> She sleeps with her source, she's a lousy analyst, she's a terrible manager, and then she runs for her life and abandons her people. >> that. But that's also a huge, I mean,

[12:55] she should have been fired immediately, probably. >> Immediately. >> you see some [ __ ] like that, everyone was probably pretty upset. >> Everyone was. >> That day, uh, I mean, you talk about 9/11 all the time, but that specific day, when you are watching the TV, you were in DC? >> I was, yeah, at headquarters, CIA headquarters. >> What was your initial reaction? How did you feel personally? >> Oh, I I knew it was al-Qaeda. I think just about everybody did, except one idiot behind me shouting, "This is going to be war on Hezbollah." It's [snorts] like, "Dude, do you not

[13:26] read the papers?" >> Yeah. >> Um Cofer Black was the director of the counterintelligence Sorry, the counterterrorism center at the time. And he stood up on a on a desk, and he said, "Today we're at war. We're all going to have to do our part. Not all of us are going to make it home. And if you want to walk out now, nobody will think the less of you." And nobody budged. >> No. >> Everybody On the contrary, everybody volunteered. >> Wow. >> You know, to go overseas. Everybody. >> That's I mean, that's that's pretty

[13:56] amazing. >> That's the kind of person you want working there. >> of course. How how much does it bother you to see like there's so many conspiracies about 9/11? >> I just got in an argument this morning with a guy that's visiting me. >> Really? What was Let me guess his take. Israel? >> No. Yeah. He hates the Israelis. And but he said it was more complicated that it was Israel and the deep state and the uniparty and Venezuelan intelligence. And I'm like, "Do you listen to

[14:28] yourself? You sound like a crazy person." >> So, does it bother you as a guy on the inside that when you tell people, "Oh, I'm so I'm 100% confident it's al-Qaeda." And they refuse to just take your word for it. Does that bother you? >> Sometimes. Although people have really good points about Building Seven. >> Mhm. >> I'm not an engineer. I'm not an architect. I don't know why Building Seven collapsed. There had to have been a reason, obviously. But in terms of who did 9/11, it was al-Qaeda. 1,000% it was

[14:59] al-Qaeda. It wasn't the Jews. It wasn't the Saudis or the Saudi royal family. It wasn't the Bushes. It wasn't Silverstein, whatever his name was, you know, for the insurance money. It was al-Qaeda. >> Yeah. >> Um What about What are Okay, so what are the most misconceptions that you continue to hear >> All right, you guys know we love MoonPay over here. I absolutely love MoonPay because it is so easy to use, so easy to

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[16:32] so make sure you do your own research. Only risk what you can afford to lose. MoonPay just facilitates the transactions, not financial advice. >> But it doesn't have to just be 9/11 that actually gets you upset. Are there any theories about anything that you did or that you were involved with that personally bother you? >> Nine The 9/11 conspiracies bother me the most. >> Yeah. >> Because there are so many people so positive about their positions that they either speak to me like I'm stupid

[17:03] or worse yet, they accuse me of being part of the conspiracy. That bugs the [ __ ] out of me. >> How does someone do that? >> Oh, there's this one guy in particular. >> And why do you why do you entertain all this from random people? >> I You know what I don't anymore. >> Okay. I used to. >> Yeah. >> It's my nature to be a friendly guy. Or it's the way I was raised. It's It's my personality. Thank you. And I I hate to be rude to people. But I've gotten to the point I'm not a kid anymore. I'm 60 I'm going to be 62

[17:34] years old in a couple of weeks. And so now I'm comfortable saying you sound like a [ __ ] crazy person. >> Mhm. >> And let me Let me guess. If it wasn't Al-Qaeda, it was the lizard people. Right? Or the space aliens. >> Yeah. >> Cuz that's where we're headed. >> Right. >> But there's this one [ __ ] guy in particular. He seems to be at every event that I go to. I I will

[18:04] I'm an open-minded person. Right? I I know for a fact that that Al-Qaeda did 9/11. But I also believe that the Israeli government had advanced notice that this was going to happen. We begged all of our liaison partners in the region to help us to disrupt this attack. They claimed that they didn't have any information. And then it happened. It was to Israel's benefit that 9/11 happened because we went to war in Iraq. We overthrew Saddam Hussein. We threw the whole place into chaos. That benefited Israel.

[18:35] >> Mhm. >> So I go to I I'm not a 9/11 truther. But the local 9/11 truth organization asked me if I would appear with Congressman Dennis Kucinich and Congressman Curt Weldon and one or two other people. And I went and in that narrow scope, I offered up my opinion that the Israelis knew about it in advance and didn't help us. This guy's there. He's like, "Boy, you just refuse to accept the facts, huh?

[19:06] The nanothermite paint." It's like, "Dude, there's no such thing as nanothermite paint." This is the same guy who yells at me about the USS Liberty all the time. And I've written extensively about the USS Liberty. It was the Israelis. The Israelis knew that it was an American ship. They bombed it anyway. They killed all these guys. I agree. >> Yeah. >> So, why are you hitting me over the head about the USS Liberty? And then he yells about what there's some other conspiracy he yells at me every time. And finally I said, "Look, you're a [ __ ] crazy

[19:37] person. You've always been a crazy person. I get nothing out of talking to you. And so I'm just not going to talk to you anymore. I went to some event at uh Arlington Cemetery. Oh, it was for the Liberty. >> Yeah. >> And I sort of broke off from the group cuz this event was held right by the grave of uh General John Blackjack Pershing. >> Mhm. >> And I wanted to go, you know, pay my respects. Guy was the, you know, general of the armies, five-star general, he won World War I.

[20:08] And this [ __ ] guy follows me over there. And I was like, "Look, I've been nice to you >> So, he's a stalker at that point. >> I'm like, "I'm going to drop you if you ever speak to me again. I've had it. And I'm not going to be nice anymore." >> Mhm. >> And then he backed off. And he's like 70-something years old and he just comes after me at every event. But yeah, that happens a lot. >> Yeah, I mean like even going on these podcasts, you do you've done probably what How many podcasts you think you've done this year? >> Oh, this year? I've cut back.

[20:39] >> 50? >> No. 50, 60. >> Do you ever feel like anyone you're talking to might be Some of these podcasters are part of the CIA or >> Oh, yeah. >> You really think so? >> Yeah, I have a >> [clears throat] >> uh a friend who's an investigative journalist. >> tell right away I'm not. >> No, you're not. >> Yeah, you could tell. >> I have a friend who's an investigative journalist and she makes really, really good use of the Freedom of Information Act. And she thinks that some of the more prominent podcasters, she she believes it's three of them. >> Do you want to Do you want to give me a name? >> I I can't, cuz they'll sue me. But she thinks they're taking They're that

[21:10] they're taking CIA money. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> There's a lot of theories about that. And the more and more you even watch Have you ever heard of No Jumper? >> No. >> This guy named Adam 22, and he has on all these rappers come on all the time. And they tell these stories about crimes they're involved with, and then a lot of them end up in jail. So there's a bunch of theories that he's a fed and all this, and I'm like, the more and more I watch these interviews, I'm like, this is >> You're You're describing The Intercept. >> Yeah. >> You know, the the news site, The Intercept? >> Should I know what that is?

[21:41] >> It's uh it was set up around, I'm going to say 15 years ago um by uh Pierre Omidyar, the founder of eBay. He wanted this like totally non-partisan, you know, it was just the straight news, heavy on um investigative journalism. So it was um It was uh oh shoot, their names are escaping me. Anyway, a lot of really important people, Glenn Greenwald, [clears throat] and uh oh, what's his name? I forget. Anyway,

[22:14] they hired a guy named Matthew Cole, another guy named Rich Esposito, and then boom, boom, boom, five whistleblowers who had some connection to The Intercept all go to prison, including me. >> Yeah. >> In my case, it was Matthew Cole who personally put me in prison, ratted me out to the FBI. Um Matthew Cole and Rich Esposito were responsible for Reality Winner going to prison. Here, two guys >> How come they don't have that reputation though as snitching? >> I I I tweeted at them

[22:44] >> Yeah. >> when Reality Winner got arrested, and I said, "Hey, Intercept, serious question. You guys are an FBI front, right? I mean, you have to be, cuz nobody could be that stupid or that sloppy to put five national security whistleblowers in prison. You have to be working for the FBI, right? Right? >> Yeah. >> And nobody ever responded. >> Other outlets emailed me to ask if, you know, I could expand on that. But here's Rich Esposito, lifelong journalist,

[23:16] >> Mhm. >> and Matthew Cole. I actually worked with both of them at ABC News. Uh and um >> How was your relationship with them? >> It With Matthew it was proper. >> Yeah. >> With Rich it was close. >> Did you feel uh betrayed by them? >> Absolutely. And I stopped speaking to them when I got indicted. >> Well, hell yeah. Why would you speak to them anymore? >> But it got worse for them. Rich went on to be the deputy police commissioner of New York. Like, how the [ __ ] does that

[23:46] happen? Number one. Number two, it's well documented that Matthew Cole ratted me out. >> Yeah. >> And Reality Winner, she was an NSA translator, she was apoplectic that, you know, the Russians were trying to get Donald Trump elected. And she sends a top secret analysis, no sources and methods. It was probably improperly classified. It should have been secret, but that's neither here nor there.

[24:16] She She scans it and emails it to The Intercept. And they have this thing, if you have classified information and you want to send it to us, use this, you know, this uh encryption key. So, she does. >> Mhm. >> So, what [clears throat] do these morons do? They forward not forward the email, they they attach the scan of the document. They send it to NSA, and they say, "Is this a real NSA document?" >> Is this all anonymous, too?

[24:47] >> Yeah, it's >> When you're submitting everything? >> Totally anonymous. >> But they don't have a way to track that? >> Your name and your employee ID number are embedded in the dot of an I or in the period at the end of a sentence. So, all NSA had to do was blow it up and it says reality winner and there's her employee number and they arrested her 5 hours after she emailed the intercept. >> [ __ ] >> So, if you've been a national security journalist for 25 years, are you really that [ __ ] stupid

[25:18] that you would send the original document to NSA? Or are you working for the FBI? >> What do you think? >> Honestly, with the police connections they had, I think they were working for the FBI. >> And what year was this? When when >> 2015. >> Okay. >> 15 or 16. >> not that long ago. >> No. >> Something that I I have to just ask you about that it keeps crossing my mind is like there's so much speculation on how much information actually goes into this, right? I've seen theories about when you're watching porn, someone's watching

[25:49] you. >> Mhm. >> When you actually believe that? >> Snowden told us about that. Yes. >> So, that's true. >> Yes. >> Who's watching you? >> NSA mostly. But, it could be also the Russians, the Chinese, the Israelis, the Cubans, the North Koreans, the French, the British. >> So, do you think that people need to actually be more careful about what they say around their phone? >> Oh my god, yes. It's not an accident that you know, on Instagram or Facebook, all of our advertisements are based on something that we've recently said.

[26:21] >> People People always say that, too. My phone must be listening to me and the algorithm pops in like that, but no one wants to like >> Yeah, it is. >> No one's actually going to change the way they talk or act with their >> zero privacy. Every time I would do something with Wiki >> move different with yours being having all this knowledge and knowing that? Or do you not give a [ __ ] >> there's something Normally, I don't care. But, if there's something that's particularly um sensitive, like for example, I was doing some work in support of WikiLeaks, I either wouldn't take a phone when I'd go overseas or I I have a a throwaway

[26:53] phone that I'll take that like only my sister has the number of in case of an emergency. Uh and there are a couple of meetings I went to where we all put our phones in the microwave and just closed them up in the microwave and then did our meeting in another room. >> Jesus, dude. But I've never seen anybody like I've had a tons of people around me, right? I haven't had anybody say anything crazy, but have you ever seen somebody that had no idea had something crazy on their phone? People find it and they actually like are whatever for it?

[27:25] >> It's funny you should ask. >> This happened recently? >> Yes, like weeks ago. >> To a buddy of yours? >> Not a buddy of mine. I I recently testified as an expert witness for the defense in a terrorism case. >> Mhm. >> A federal terrorism case in Florida. Um it's a long story. We can skip it or we can go through it later, whatever. But they charged the guy with seven felonies and one of the felonies was uh child pornography. It wasn't child

[27:57] pornography. It was anime. And there's no you do you you don't know how old this anime character is. It's a cartoon character. >> Mhm. >> I Is it Is it 16? Is it 18? Is it 20? Who knows? It's a freaking cartoon character. >> Right. >> And he had it on his phone. Just one cartoon. Somebody had sent it. >> cartoon? >> Anime cartoon. >> Mhm. >> And uh they're holding him on a felony charge for exploitation of a child.

[28:27] There isn't a child. >> I don't understand that. >> Neither do I. >> Cuz it's like the cartoon characters are under 18? >> I guess. I don't know. >> They're cartoon characters. >> That is bizarre. >> Yeah, it's bizarre. And he's still in he's still in prison awaiting trial. They're probably going to drop the charges. They would be wise to drop the charges. He was acquitted on all of the terrorism counts. Um >> And this is the only thing they found on his phone? >> Yeah. Literally the only thing they found on his phone. >> Wow. >> And let me add something.

[28:58] >> Yeah. >> You may have noticed, or maybe not, but people may have noticed that there is an increasing number of cases where people are being charged with national security crimes, espionage, failure to secure classified information, you know, whatever. And child pornography. It's like every one of these cases includes an unrelated child porn charge. >> Yeah. You see that a lot. >> You see it a lot. >> Even when I'm in LA, I'll go on that

[29:28] citizen app. >> Sure, sure. >> And you see the [ __ ] orange dots, it's [ __ ] crazy. >> But what you don't see is convictions. >> That's true. >> And it's because, number one, there's no child porn. Number two, when there is child porn, it was likely put there by the FBI. There's a case in Kentucky of a guy, um an army guy. >> Mhm. >> And uh they charged him with a whole bunch of national security crimes, espionage, and, you know, talking to this foreign government and

[29:59] that foreign government, and child porn. And they asked that he be held without bail. And the judge said, "Well, if there's child porn involved, definitely no bail." And his attorney said, "There is no child porn. They're just making this up." So, the judge told the the uh Justice Department, "I need to see evidence that there was child pornography on the computer." They hemmed and hawed for 6 months. >> [snorts] >> And then there was no child porn. And then they did had to drop the charge. But they do this because

[30:31] it'll turn your natural allies against you. I'll give you another example, Julian Assange. >> Mhm. >> You can have an opinion on what WikiLeaks did. I think WikiLeaks did something that was a public service. But then, "Oh, he raped two women." Uh actually, no, he didn't. And the women walked away from those uh those accusations saying that they'd been pressured into making the accusations by the by the Swedish police, which in turn was under pressure from the CIA. >> Do you How do you not like live under or

[31:03] do you? Do you have serious paranoia? Cuz now you're making me think every time I travel abroad, I want to watch my six and [ __ ] make sure everyone I'm around I'm very careful. But just because we travel, tourists go party, do these things, and that kind of stuff never crosses our minds. And I don't know if that's >> Oh, we should be naive or >> Oh, it should cross your mind. >> [clears throat] >> I travel internationally a lot. >> Mhm. >> Like six times a year or so. I I've already taken [clears throat] three trips. I'm leaving again in two

[31:35] weeks. >> favorite destination? >> Greece. >> Oh, yeah. I love Spain. >> Spain's awesome. I teach classes in Spain. It's absolutely magnificent. >> Where Where do you go usually? >> University of Salamanca. >> Where is that? >> It's in northwestern Spain, about 2 hours east of Portugal. >> Oh, sick. Okay, so I spent a lot of the girl I'm dating, she's from Madrid. So, I spent a lot of time in Madrid. We'll go to Barcelona. >> Madrid's glorious. >> Yeah. Yeah, I love Madrid. >> I love it, too. >> I like Ibiza, too, but it's just like it's a lot for me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We go We go there probably for different reasons, but like I go there and I party, and it's out of control.

[32:07] >> Yeah, it is out of control. >> that? >> I I'm kind of too >> too old. Are you sober? >> Yes. No, I mean >> [laughter] >> I thought you meant like right now. Well, yeah, no, I know you are right now, but I mean in general. >> No, I I drink. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> You'd be a fun time to go out with, I have a feeling. Yeah. >> think we'd have We'd have a good [laughter] time. >> Yeah. >> Right now, I am I am sober. As we're doing this, I am. >> Yeah, no, I know you are. >> Um >> You said you visited 72 countries? >> Yeah, 73 now, proud to say. >> Oh, nice. What's the What's the most recent? >> Uh Norway and Sweden.

[32:38] >> Okay, sick. >> I've never been to Norway or Sweden before. >> I've heard great things about Sweden. >> Sweden was awesome. Like when I arrived, I'm like, "How is it that I've never come to this country before? It's fantastic." They have this great coffee culture. Everybody's outside hanging out. >> Yeah. >> Oh, it was nice. Norway was great, too. Beautiful women. >> I'm going to go to Vietnam in a couple of weeks. And um my brother-in-law's going to go with me and I'm thinking I'm looking at Ho Chi Minh City. I said, "My god, it's just a few hours ride from Cambodia. I've never been to Cambodia. Might as well go while I'm there."

[33:09] >> Mhm. >> So, we applied for our visas and um went to Poland. I was I was giving a speech in Berlin. And Berlin's only 2 hours from Poland. I'd never been to Poland. So, I just took the train. Hung out there for a day. >> Say again? >> It's a little depressing in Poland. >> Yeah. >> When when I was there, I don't know. >> It's a little depressing. I went to this uh city south of Gdansk. >> Berlin is off the wall. >> Berlin's one of the most underrated places ever. >> I think it is one of the greatest cities in Europe. It really is. >> Sick. >> Art and music and clubs and restaurants

[33:42] and it's great. >> And you said your least favorite is? >> You know, I really don't like India at all. >> Yeah. So, that You told the story about how you literally will walk outside every single time you walked out, you saw someone [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> Just >> If If they need to take a [ __ ] they'll just pull down their pants wherever they're walking down the street, drop a a pyramid, pull their pants up, and just walk away. >> And no wipe? >> I'm like, "No. No wipe. >> That's just uncomfortable. >> me." >> Yeah. So, how much time do you think you spent there?

[34:12] >> A few months. >> And you just hated it? >> I hated it. >> Did you know >> know what? I'll tell you that that's not even why I hate I've been in filthy places before. I've never been in a place as filthy as India. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> But um but I've been in like worse places, poorer places, more dangerous places. But the the thing that I hate the most about India is the way Indians treat one another. It's shocking to me this caste system that they have. It's shocking.

[34:43] I'll give you an example. I had a driver that was assigned to me for like I was there for like 6 weeks. And um >> [snorts] >> guy was a really sweet guy, wife and two little kids at home. And the guy's only making but I don't know, $100 a month, $150 a month. So my boss told me before I left, don't overtip. You're going to ruin it for everybody else. So of course I'm going to overtip this poor guy. He he was you know, he committed 24 hours a day to me if I wanted to go anywhere at all.

[35:13] >> Well, you you set the standard. >> I did. I set the standard. You [ __ ] everything up. I did. And >> That's why you're not in the group chat. You got to come together and agree on everything. >> And and my >> We're overtipping, the next guy has to [ __ ] overtip, and then you just keep going up and up. >> So I told him I said, listen, let me take you to lunch. I was staying at the uh Westin. >> In India? >> In Hyderabad, India. >> Okay. >> I said, let me take you to lunch. There's this wonderful restaurant inside the Westin. Oh, thank you so much. I said, great. 1:00. So 1:00, I'm there in the restaurant,

[35:43] I'm waiting. It was like 1:00, 1:15, 1:30. Where is this guy? So I walk outside and he's just standing out there. And I said, what are you doing out here? Come on in. He said, I'm sorry, sir, they won't let me in. And the the guy that's you know, the the what what do you call the guy? The welcome guy. >> Yeah, the concierge. >> Yeah, we yeah, I guess, why not? Concierge. He says, I'm sorry, sir, but he's of a lower caste, he can't come into the hotel. I said, he's my guest. I've

[36:14] invited him into the hotel. He said, I'm sorry, sir. I said, I want to talk to the manager. Manager comes out. He said, he can't come in the hotel, he's of a low caste. I said, I'm a guest in this hotel and I've invited him to lunch, he's my friend. >> Yeah. >> And the guy's like, "I don't care who you are. He's not coming in the hotel." >> Wow. >> So, I was furious. We get in the car, and I said, "Listen, let's go to the best restaurant in Hyderabad. They're famous for Hyderabadi biryani, right?" >> Uh-huh. >> I mean, it's just >> even know what that is. >> It's rice mixed with vegetables and

[36:45] meats, big deal. >> Yeah. >> But, they're famous. It's their thing there. I said, "Take me to the best biryani place in Hyderabad." He takes me to this old British, like, Victorian mansion that's been converted into a restaurant. >> nicest place, right? >> It was the nicest place. And the manager >> Wouldn't let you in? >> No, he says, "You can come in. He can't come in." >> Oh, again. >> Yeah, and I'm like, "What the [ __ ] with you people?" I said, "He's my guest." And then, you know, we had some back and forth. They

[37:17] agreed to set up a table outside. >> They're doing this to their own people, huh? >> To their own people. And this happens every single day. Another thing that I saw that bothered me very much was Like, this is I'm talking this this part was 20 years ago. So, this is before the advent of >> [snorts] >> the trans movement. >> Mhm. Okay. >> So, we used to have some not very nice names for

[37:47] trans people. >> [snorts] >> And uh I said to the driver one time, "What are What's with all the he-shes?" Which is what we used to call them. >> Or or lady boys in Thailand. >> Yeah. >> [ __ ] happens, right? >> He said, "Oh," he said, "they're criminals." I said, "What do you mean they're criminals?" And he said, "Well, you notice you always see them standing outside of hotels." And I said, "Yeah, are they prostitutes?" He said, "Oh, no, no, nothing like that. What they do is they wait for wedding receptions.

[38:17] >> Mhm. >> And then, they'll just bust into the wedding reception and knock over the table with a cake on it and you know break the the band's instruments until you pay them to go away. That's >> you tell that story. >> they make their money. >> Yeah. >> It's like what kind of society is this? And it's just accepted. >> they not more prepared for that though? How would that happen? >> prepared? I would have an army of guys just to beat the hell out of them. >> don't then don't they wear dresses or you said something so you can identify them? >> big brawny dudes and they're all in dresses. >> And it's just a war to have a good

[38:48] wedding? >> Yeah. >> It's nuts. >> It's crazy. >> of crazy country is this? >> Uh >> The food is very good though. >> What do you think is like the most dangerous city that people wouldn't expect? >> That people wouldn't expect? That's a good question. Um in the days when I was in the agency it was clearly Athens. That that would have been an easy question to answer. >> This is You said in the early days? >> Yeah, when I was at the CIA it was Athens. We spent more money on security

[39:19] in Athens than any other city in the world, including Beirut, which was like the hotbed of terrorism at the time. But now it's more >> was the threat in Athens? >> Revolutionary Organization 17 November, Popular Revolutionary Struggle, the Abu Nidal Organization, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, PFLP General Command, the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and the Libyans. >> Hm, wow. >> And they were all active. >> still like that today? >> No. >> What what would you say today? >> broken. Today I think you probably have

[39:51] to worry more about crime. >> Yeah. >> Uh targeting Westerners. So this the most dangerous city that people would be surprised about I would probably say Paris. Yeah. >> I've heard about I've heard there's a lot of crime in Paris. >> Yeah, there's a lot of crime in Paris. Part of the problem too is there's no uh birthright citizenship in France. >> Mhm. >> And so you've got people who are there four generations, five generations, and they're stateless.

[40:22] >> Wow. >> And they have nothing to lose. >> Yeah. >> And because they're stateless, they don't get public benefits. There's no welfare. So they're going to take it from you. >> I've never been to Paris. >> You're not missing a whole heck of a lot. >> It's that's the Paris is the most either you love it or you hate it place I've ever heard from people. And I always get that. >> I'm kind of in the hated camp. My my son went backpacking with his best friend last summer. He's He's 20. Now he's 21. Um and he sent me the funniest doggone picture. I warned him about Paris, but

[40:53] he sent me this hilarious picture. It's him and his buddy. It's a selfie with the Mona Lisa like far behind them. And there have to be a thousand people packed into this room. And then he just wrote, "Welcome to Paris." >> Yeah. >> You know, I the first time I went to Paris, I went with my girlfriend backpacking when I was 20. >> Right. >> And we befriended a woman there who had a two-year-old daughter. And she had caught her husband cheating on her, so she left in a huff. She took the the daughter, left in a huff, and

[41:25] just took the train to Paris. I think she was from Brussels is what it was. And that's an easy train ride. And we invited her to spend the day with us. We went, you know, here and there and sightseeing, whatever. We were getting on the the metro and a thief as she passed through the turnstiles, a thief grabbed her diaper bag thinking she probably has her wallet in there. >> Yeah. >> [snorts] >> And um and she screamed. I was already through

[41:57] the turnstiles. So I ran and I grabbed the diaper bag and I'm yanking on it trying to get it from this thief. >> one guy. >> The guy let go and he grabs one of the baby's shoes and just walks away. >> What the [ __ ] >> is that? >> Yeah, I don't know what that is. What are you going to do with that? Middle of the day if he's not going to have the bag bag he's going to make it hard by taking one of the kids shoes. Can you recall like personally like going off this the scariest situation

[42:28] you've been in? >> There were a couple in Athens. >> Can you talk about it? >> I had been in Athens only a month. >> Were like were you scared for your life? >> Yeah. Guy got a shot off at me. >> Oh, he did? He didn't hit you though. >> He didn't come close. He hit my bumper. But I was in temporary housing when my wife and two sons and I first moved to to Athens. They [snorts] they just didn't have a house ready for us. So for 1 month we're in this apartment and then they rent us a house in a

[43:00] northern suburb. So we're moving. We have two cars and we're moving our stuff from the apartment to the house. I had just bought this it sounds funny now but at the time it was like state-of-the-art 50-in television and it took up the entire backseat, right? And so my wife and kids are in the car ahead of me and their car is full of stuff. My car has the TV on the backseat and some boxes in the front. And she calls me from her car and she says, "Do you see this guy

[43:31] in your blind spot?" And I said, "Yeah." I said, "I'm starting to get a little worried about him." >> Your wife called you? >> Yeah. >> So she started to know how to move like you. >> Oh, yeah. I had to teach her. >> You're divorced from her? >> Yeah, yeah. This was my first wife. She wasn't a CIA officer. She was a ballet teacher. But even she could see that this guy's trying really hard to stay in my blind spot. >> Yeah. >> So I said, "You and the kids take off and I'm going to try to lose him. And if I can't lose him, I'm going to try to hit him." So she takes off.

[44:03] So I speed up, the guy speeds up. I slow down, the guy slows down. I change lanes and he's with me the whole time. So, I decide to slam on the brakes and swerve to try to hit him, and he just gets out of my way each time. And I'm like, "Dog gone it, I can't I can't get away from this guy." And finally, um we get stuck in traffic at a red light. >> Oh, [ __ ] >> Yeah, and I'm like, >> He's He's behind you at this point? >> He's on the side of me. >> Okay. >> But then he >> You got a gun on you, don't you? You don't you? >> Yeah, I have my gun on me, and I had

[44:34] unzipped the fanny pack just in case. So, he pulls in front of me and gets off the motorcycle, and I pull my gun, and I start to open the door, which you're not supposed to do. I should have just split. >> Mhm. >> But he pulls a gun. And I was like, "Fuck." Now I got to fish or cut bait. So, I either shoot the guy and risk getting shot myself. >> it at you? >> He He was in the act of pulling it out.

[45:05] And so, as fast as I can, I sit back down, I put it in gear, and I just crash the motorcycle. The motorcycle goes flying. He gets one shot off and gets my bumper, and I take off. So, I call my wife on the way to the house. She calls the embassy. The embassy calls the police. By the time I got to the house, like everybody's there. Three cop cars, the embassy security officer, and because I was there on on a

[45:35] counterterrorism >> Mhm. >> tour, we just assumed this was a terrorist attack. >> Yeah. >> And it wasn't. It turned out the motorcycle was stolen. And we concluded, after quite a long investigation, this was just a simple carjacking attempt. >> Yeah. How long did it take from that moment to like uh getting the result or whatever? >> Oh. About a month. >> Okay. >> It was >> And so, that seems like a long time, right? >> Yeah. For a simple case like that.

[46:05] >> was paranoid as all as all get out because of that. Like, are they on me already? I just got here. >> Yeah. >> How are they on me already? >> Yeah. But, with your training, shouldn't you be able to tell pretty quickly? >> Yeah. I was very good at surveillance. >> How many times could you catch that Did you have moments where you thought people were onto you? Or they were like, "Yo, I can sense something about this guy." >> Mhm. >> Can you give me a specific? >> I can give you a couple. So, I wrote in one of my books about this incident I had in Pakistan. >> Mhm. >> Um

[46:35] there was another incident with a motorcycle. So, I'm every day, no matter where I was in the world, you leave at a different time and you take a different route to work every day. And same thing at home, you never set a pattern. There's a definition of surveillance. It's multiple sightings at time and distance. So, it's I see you multiple times at different times of the day and at different locations. That's That means I'm under surveillance. >> Mhm.

[47:05] >> So, there's this guy, again, trying really hard to stay in my blind spot. And the only reason I even paid attention to him was he was wearing a red motorcycle helmet. And in Pakistan, literally nobody wears helmets. I don't even know where you'd buy a helmet. >> Mhm. >> So, I'm like, "Shit. I think this guy's on me." And again, I speed up, he speeds up. I slow down, he slows down. And then, when I get to the entrance to the diplomatic quarter, which is where all the embassies were, um he broke off.

[47:36] And I was like, "Okay." We have a database. I get into the office, I write all this up. This is when it started, this is when it ended, this is where it started, where it ended, this is the route I took, and this is the description of the guy and the motorcycle. So, I worked like 12, 13, 14 hours that day, which was a normal work day post-9/11. >> Yeah. >> So, it's already dark when I leave. And I come out of the diplomatic quarter. The The American Embassy was about a quarter of a mile inside the DQ. Okay. I

[48:08] come out of the DQ, and the DQ has gates with, you know, arms that come down, and guys are checking IDs, whatever, military. >> Yeah. >> So, I come out of the DQ, and the guy's on me again. There was one thing that bothered me is Pakistanis are very, very poor. >> I have to tell you, though, it seems like if no one wears helmets there, and this guy's wearing a red helmet, that's like the easiest tell ever. >> Right? >> So, why >> And and that was my first thought. >> Almost like he wants to be noticed. >> thought was

[48:38] the guy can't be that obvious. This can't be surveillance, cuz nobody would be that obvious. >> Right. >> But, what bothered me was immediately outside the gates to the diplomatic quarter, there was always an army of women picking up little twigs, because they're so poor, they couldn't afford fuel to cook their meals. And so, they would just gather fallen twigs every day. >> Yeah. >> Or they're working for the bad guys, or they're surveillance officers for the government pretending to be poor women

[49:09] picking up twigs. >> Mhm. >> So, it's like it could be these women. I mean, there were dozens of them every day watching people come in and out of the DQ. >> Right. >> So, I come out of the DQ, this [ __ ] guy's on me again. So, I took this crazy route back to the the guest house that I stayed in. He finally broke off before I got to the guest house. So, now I'm starting to panic a little bit. I get up the next morning at 5:00 a.m. I went to the main door of the guest house. I and I open it just a crack, and I look up and

[49:40] down the street. I don't see anybody. The station had assigned us these mirrors on retractable sticks, so I look under my car. I don't see any tracking device or bomb or anything. So, I get in the car, I start driving, and by now it's like 5:45 a.m. >> Can I ask you, how often would you check under your >> Every day. >> Every single day? >> Uh-huh. >> For and did you ever find anything? >> No. Never. >> But that's something you're trained to do every single time. >> Every day. >> Okay. >> It's part of the

[50:11] it's called the high threat operations course. >> Yeah. >> So, 5:45 a.m. Here's this [ __ ] guy again. Like a quarter of a mile from the guest house. The guy breaks off as I approach the entrance to the diplomatic quarter. And uh and I'm panicked. So, I wait for the security officer to come in. And I go up to him and I said, "Listen, I'm under surveillance. I'm I'm sure that I am." So, I I tell him the story. He's like, "Oh, yeah, this is bad. We have to wait for the chief to come in." Chief comes in about 7:00.

[50:43] And I said, "I'm 100% sure I'm under surveillance." And I tell him the whole story. He said, "Did you put it in the database?" I said, "Yeah." He goes, "Well, you know what you got to do." I said, "Yeah, I know I know what I got to do." He said, "Don't worry about it. We're going to have a whole team out there. Don't worry about anything." And I'm like, "Okay." I'm very worried. >> So, they don't offer any sort of like protection or like they have no one watching your back. You're just on your own. >> You're on your own. >> [ __ ] man.

[51:13] >> So, word got around quickly, and all the guys in my in my branch are like, "Don't worry, buddy. We're all going to be out there. Don't worry." I'm like, "I'm very worried. All of you old men >> wearing a red helmet every day? >> Yeah. >> So, okay. But we're at No one else was like looking out for the red helmet? >> Everybody was. >> Right. >> Once I started telling them, yeah. But the guy was only on me. That afternoon, in the middle of the afternoon, I had a meeting at a safe house that we shared with the Pakistanis.

[51:43] So, I go to interrogate some prisoner. And then at the end of it, I start walking out and just as I get to the door, I turned around and I said, "General Muhammad, are you following me?" And he said, "No, why?" And I said, "Because I'm under surveillance. I'm 100% sure that I'm under surveillance. And I'm going to kill this guy this afternoon if I see him again." And then I never saw him again. And we learned later that

[52:14] they were all sitting around a table one day and one of them said, "The new American, I really like this guy, John. He's very friendly." And everybody's like, "Yeah, yeah, he's very friendly." And then one of them said, "You know what? Nobody's that friendly. He's probably friendly just to make us soft. I wonder what he's doing when he's not over here working with us." And so they put the worst surveillance officer in the entire Pakistani intelligence service

[52:45] on me. And it was only because I stopped, on a lark, and asked this Brigadier General if they were following me, that that guy's not in the ground today. >> Is there any uh hesitation of confronting the general like that? >> No, he was my regular like my regular liaison partner. >> Don't you think that if they really wanted to take you out, they would have put somebody better than that? >> No, it wasn't to take me out. >> Just to see what you're doing in your free time? >> were really afraid that I was spying on

[53:15] them. >> Got it. >> And of course I wasn't. >> Yeah. >> My job was to partner with them. >> Yeah. >> Why would I want to spy on them? >> Right. >> But they're all paranoid. >> That makes sense. It makes complete sense. I have to tell you this is a complete shift, but it's Everyone talks to you about torture, cold cell, sleep deprivation. >> Yeah, it's very boring now. >> I've seen videos of This was like when I was younger, when you just get access to the internet, whatever. Sure. >> And I would see some [ __ ] up [ __ ] that was happening in other countries of

[53:45] torture. >> Oh, yeah. >> I saw a video, I'm just going to tell you. I saw a video of a guy have two ropes on each arm with horses. >> And they ran separate directions. >> Yeah. >> And that was the kind of [ __ ] I saw and that [ __ ] me up for like three or four weeks. I'm like, that's what >> It's bad stuff. The Belgians used to do that in Belgian Congo. The Chinese did it. The Vietnamese did it. The Iraqis did it under Saddam Hussein. It's It's grim. >> But that's just so much like more severe than what

[54:17] >> Yeah. >> the cold cell waterboarding. So, that didn't bother you at all to see what was happening in other places compared to what we did? >> No, wrong is wrong. >> Right. >> Um We're We're not just signatories to the United Nations Convention Against Torture. We wrote the United Nations Convention Against Torture. And we promised not to use exactly those techniques that we used. So, either we're going to be

[54:48] this shining beacon of hope for human rights and civil rights and civil liberties, or we're not. If we want to be the country that pulls people's arms off, or the country that tortures people to death with a cold cell, and then just buries them in a ditch behind the building, well, then that's the country that we that we're going to be. >> Mhm. >> Or we're not. But we can't pretend to be the one while being the other. >> How many people do you think agreed with your take on it that just kept quiet?

[55:18] >> A majority. >> Really? >> Of the CIA. Yeah. I even got an email the the day that I went public, the next morning I got an email from a retired Deputy Director of the CIA, of the whole CIA. >> Mhm. >> He always liked me, and I always liked and respected him. He emailed me and he said, "You've chosen a difficult path. I'm glad somebody did. I wish I had had the courage to do it myself." And I saved that as a souvenir. I can't tell you how many CIA people

[55:49] reached out to me, not just after I blew the whistle, but after my arrest, and said, "Listen, you know, we can't have any public communication, but I appreciate what you did." >> But does that Did that bother you that they only wanted to do it behind closed doors? >> It disappointed me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, it disappointed me. You know what's funny now is now that public opinion has changed, they all want to be like my friend on Facebook and then they send me LinkedIn

[56:20] >> a celebrity these days. >> invitations, yeah. It's like, you know, where were you in 2012 when the entire American government was falling on my head? >> Yeah. >> Where were you? >> Yeah, it's cr- I don't know, man. This whole like I've done a I've listened to a few podcasts that you've done, and it's just like it seems like the CIA is like a fraternity, but it's not. Everyone's in there for themselves. You can't [ __ ] even trust >> Yeah. >> the people around you. >> It's so true. >> I don't know. It just It's a scary world. >> It is so true. >> And just like

[56:51] I mean, it's it's tough cuz I can see kind of both sides cuz there are There's always going to be the people that look at you, even though you weren't uh the response in jail that was that you didn't snitch, right? You weren't treated as a snitch. >> No. >> Why is that? >> Because I hate the FBI as much as the mob does. >> Right. You went in there and the Italians took you in? >> Boy, did they. >> That surprise you? >> Yes. >> And why did they take you in? I don't know that that's part. >> It It was really because of the FBI. >> So they looked at you as an ally almost.

[57:21] >> Yeah, yeah. I hate the FBI as much as the five families do. Or the eight families is what it came down to. >> Yeah. What did you do? You did 30 months, right? >> Yeah, I did 23 months of a 30-month sentence. >> And where were >> Uh FCI Loretto, Pennsylvania. >> And how was the time? >> It was Groundhog Day, to tell you the truth. It was just the same thing day after day after day. >> And did you have any regret with what you blowing the whistle? >> I would do it again today. >> Yeah? >> Today. I I would be glad, I'd be honored

[57:54] to do it again today. >> So, two Americans were killed in Iran? >> Uh no, in Jordan. >> Two Americans were killed in Jordan? >> Yeah. >> And Trump went What How do you want to >> Yeah, so So, the Iranians launched uh a rocket attack on an American base or American bases in Jordan. They killed two Americans, one American is missing, and the president ordered widespread strikes all across Iran last night. Killed at least 30 people. Um he's hitting bridges, electrical

[58:26] grids, in one case a hospital. Um mostly infrastructure targets. Which, according to international law, is a crime. You can't hit infrastructure. We do anyway. We do it all the time. Um but he's he's made some very belligerent statements, too, that he's going to bring the Iranians to their knees. That's not possible. Iran has almost 93 million people. It's the size of the whole of Western Europe. >> Yeah. >> And it's surrounded on three sides by

[58:57] prohibitively tall mountains. We would need a million ground troops to bring Iran >> So, why does Trump say that so confidently, then? >> He says he says that all the time. >> Yeah. >> And it's just it's just verbose, you know. >> Well, what's your take when you see two two Americans killed and one missing? Does that aggravate you, and you agree that >> Oh, sure, it's a terrible thing. >> Mhm. >> It it's truly a terrible thing. We've lost 15 people so far. >> Yeah. But this was a war of choice.

[59:29] We elected to launch this war >> Right. >> on behalf of the Israeli government. >> Yeah. >> We did this because Benjamin Netanyahu told us to do it. >> Mhm. >> There's there's no American There's no benefit to the United States to attacking Iran. >> Yeah. >> You know? >> The influence from Israel kind of pushed us >> Yeah, the Israeli The Israelis convinced the president that there was a an offensive offensive Iranian nuclear program. There wasn't. The The entire intelligence community,

[59:59] not just the CIA >> not aware of that though? >> Pardon? >> Is Trump not aware of that? >> He was told that by by the director of national intelligence. Yeah? >> I feel like that's been a thing for years where that's always been said, but it's been known that that doesn't exist. >> It didn't exist. And then in October we bombed Iran and with giant, you know, MOABs, mother of all bombs, and bunker busters, and he said that the Iranian nuclear program had been obliterated. Okay, then why did we attack Iran again this year?

[1:00:29] Because the Israelis told us to. >> Yeah. >> That's really what it comes down to. Israel's a country that's attacked seven other countries in the region in the last year. >> Trust me, Israel has terrible PR right now. >> Terrible, and it's well-deserved terrible PR. >> People are very upset with them. Um and I don't know what's going to make it better at this point, to be honest with you. >> Yeah, we've got to end this thing. You know, the saddest part of this and and I hate complimenting Barack Obama. I hate it. >> He wouldn't pardon you? >> Because he prosecuted me.

[1:01:00] >> Yeah. >> So, Obama The Obama administration negotiated the JCPOA, the joint What's it called? The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action. We also called the Iran nuclear deal >> Yeah. >> with the Iranian government, and it worked. It was essentially the same agreement that we had through the United Nations on Iraq. Right? These lead seals on all the nuclear sites, they have spot inspections without, you know, any advanced notice. They have security cameras everywhere, 360°.

[1:01:32] And Trump unilaterally pulled us out. And he said he was going to make a better agreement. Okay, so here we are all these years later. Where's the better agreement? >> know. Back in the same situation essentially, right? >> It's It's worse. >> Um they want me to wrap up here. So, I want to finish with this. If we went to dinner, me, you, and my girlfriend, and I said you're like an uncle, she just didn't know you existed. Could you figure out in 30 minutes if she was a spy or not?

[1:02:02] >> In 30 minutes? >> All right, we'll say we'll say an hour. >> Yeah, I think I probably could. >> Really? Okay, we have to go after this. There's an Ocean Prime down the street. I don't know if you're free. >> Love Ocean Prime. >> It's on me. I need your intel. >> to a Phish concert. >> Oh, that's way better. That's way better. >> Post Pavilion. >> Dude, that's way better than mine. John, I really appreciate you, man. You're so You're friendly as [ __ ] You have such a big audience now. My friend is a die-hard fan. >> Many people, so thank you so much for your time. >> very grateful. Thank you very much for your time. This was fun. >> All right, guys, that's it. Thank you.

[1:02:34] >> [music] [music]
