Title: The Call is to Liberate Palestine w/ Miko Peled
Show: The Deep Focus Show
Date: 2025-08-16
URL: https://youtu.be/9BR1fFm9tWA
Duration: 44:00

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[00:03] China, like you say, you never know. I mean, you wish that they would because I think that could tip the scale. I think that could bring about restraint um in Israel. Um as long as businesses as usual, Israel will not stop. So, one would hope that China and Russia, you know, the the the the bricks the bricks alliance would intervene. We wish they would intervene in the genocide in Gaza, but for reasons, for some reason they don't. None of them do, and I think it's very sad they don't.

[00:38] Hi, welcome back to Deep Focus. I'm John Kuryaku. We are all in a precarious situation right now visav Palestine, Israel, and Iran. As the days and weeks pass, it seems more and more clear that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is serious. He's serious about a large-scale war against Iran and about the concept of creating a greater Israel. Look at it this way. The Israelis are committing genocide in Gaza. That's clear. And the

[01:10] international community doesn't seem to care enough to do anything meaningful about it. while the United States simply supports whatever Netanyahu wants to do. And it doesn't matter who happens to be sitting in the White House, whether it's a Democrat or a Republican. Israel launches bombing attacks against Iran, killing hundreds of people, and at least 14 Iranian nuclear scientists, and the international community just shrugs its shoulders. Israel decapitates Hezbollah, and the international community applauds. Israel moves its military into

[01:41] Syria to create some sort of a buffer zone and the international media don't even bother to cover it. Now we're seeing reports that Netanyahu wants to forcibly move all Gaza Palestinians to South Sudan. That is literally the definition of ethnic cleansing and it's patently illegal under international law. But things still can get much worse. We're going to talk about all this and more with our guest, the author and activist Miko Pelid. Miko is one of

[02:12] the clearest voices in the United States on the issue of peace in Palestine. He's the author of two books, The General's Son, The Journey of an Israeli and Palestine and Injustice: The Story of the Holy Land Foundation 5. He's also the founder and director of the Palestine House of Freedom. That's right here in Washington DC up on Capitol Hill. Miko, thanks so much for joining us. Sure. Great to be with you again. I love when you come on the show. I always learn so much and you always slap

[02:42] down my optimism. So let's start with Treata Parcy. Treat Parsy, the renowned scholar, wrote a piece this week that he ran on his Substack predicting that Israel would attack Iran again before the end of August. I'm having trouble understanding why the Israelis feel that they need to attack Iran again and so soon. Israel and the US nearly destroyed the Iranian nuclear program last month. Israel killed 14 nuclear scientists. It's clear that the Mossad has

[03:14] completely infiltrated Iran. So why attack again? What's the goal? Well, what was the goal the first time? What was the goal at the time? >> That's a good question. >> It's about instability. And I think one of the things people need to realize about this entity called Israel that it has been from the beginning and will continue to be as long as it's allowed to the source of instability in all of

[03:47] Western Asia and North Africa. That's what it has been. There's this myth that was created that somehow the state of Israel is an island of stability, an island of democracy. But if you take away the myth for a minute and just look at it historically year by year from 1948 or even pre before 1948 because the instability began with Zionist terrorist groups already creating um the sense of instability in Palestine itself. But

[04:17] from that point on until today, what has been the most consistent source of conflict, violence, suffering, death, uh, refugees, and basically in a word instability? It has been the existence of the state of Israel. And it's always painted in a way as well, the Arabs hate us, the Arabs try to kill us, so we have to, but that's of course that's that's the myth. The reality is it has been a source of instability and by design. In other words, the Zionists very early on, the very very early leadership of the

[04:48] Zionist after the state was created was to always maintain instability around them and that is how they project power and that is how they project influence and that's what they've been doing. So why would they attack Iran again? Again, why attack Iran to begin with? You know, Iran supports the Palestinians. Iran does not will not bow down to the empire and so on. Same with Yemen. Um, but why now? Why bomb them again? Why bomb them at all? Why? And again, the the what we

[05:19] saw in the last attack on Iran, Israelis are vulnerable. Israel is very vulnerable. I mean, these attacks the the the the um the attacks back from Iran, the uh you know, were severe. I mean, they really crippled Israel and people were terrified and people are already terrified because of uh October 7. there. There's no way to make sense of any of it other than this idea that Israel must maintain instability in the region. >> I want to ask you about that

[05:50] vulnerability. The conventional wisdom last month was that the Israelis stopped bombing not because they were done or they had accomplished their military goals, but because they were running short on missiles. Do you think that's changed? Ha. Has the US been able to supply Israel with whatever missiles it needs for a second go with uh with the Iranians? And do you think the Iranians would be able to retaliate like they did last time? >> I mean, I didn't have any more information than anybody else on that. I

[06:20] assume that they that they uh I assume that they're always able to uh to fill in whatever it is that they use. And so, I don't think there's a problem there. America is more than willing to supply Israel with as much as many arms and ammunition as it wants. Um I think I mean I don't I don't have again any information about Iranian capabilities but my sense is that we have not seen that Iran has always if we look at it historically since this you know tension with the US and Israel has been going

[06:51] on. Iran has always opted for um being responsible, you know, being restrained, not going all out. And I've seen we've seen this throughout. I mean, we've seen this throughout. It's been going on for for decades. >> I think they even called it strategic patience. >> Yeah, it makes sense. And that's I believe that's what they're doing. I think that's it's it's the responsible thing to do. And that's why we haven't seen an all-out war. That's why the region is still standing. And it's not

[07:22] all in you know dro totally destroyed I mean the region between you know Iran and Palestine otherwise the whole place would have been in in complete ruins. So who knows I mean I I I I don't know what the Iranian capabilities are but my sense is that what we saw uh last time was only the tip of the iceberg. I think there's a lot more that they could do if they chose to do so. which makes you wonder even more why it why the Israeli government would want to

[07:52] attack them. >> What do you think a second Israeli attack on Iran would mean for the Russians and the Chinese? It it seems to me that there would be a great chance of the whole thing spinning out of control or are the Russians just too bogged down in Ukraine or dealing with their own issues? The Chinese have this long history of non-intervention. Do you think there's a possibility that a second Israeli attack on Iran could bring in these superpowers or am I

[08:24] looking into this too too much? >> I don't know. I mean Putin said recently that um he is staying away from you know intervening with these in these things because Israel has such a large Russian population. after the fall of the Soviet Union, about a million uh Russians immigrated. Many of them, some were Jews, some were not so Jewish, but the point is that they're there. And you know, there are cities that you walk around and all you see is Russians and all you hear is Russia. I mean, you

[08:56] know, they're they're significant and they're voting block and so on. And he the way he described it I was surprised but the way he described it was that he has a sense of responsibility for these people and for Israel because of the large Russian population that is there. Um that's might be an excuse. I don't know. So I don't see him intervening. Uh and China like you say you never know. I mean you wish that they would because I think that could tip the scale. I think that could bring about more restraint uh on Israel.

[09:27] um as long as businesses as usual, Israel wouldn't stop. So, one would hope that China and Russia, you know, the the the bricks the BRICS alliance would intervene. We wish they would intervene in the genocide in Gaza, but for reasons for some reason they don't. None of them do. And I think it's very sad that they don't. Israel announced earlier this week that it is considering the forcible removal of all Gaza Palestinians who don't leave

[09:58] uh Gaza on their own accord, moving them all to South Sudan, which is arguably the worst place on earth. This is of course the very definition of ethnic cleansing. And look at it this way. It would be I'm going to use the word even if it's controversial. It would be a ghetto moving all of these Palestinians to a place that they have no connection to and forcing them to stay there. Is this a serious proposal on the part of the Israelis? Because it's so badly illegal that it makes me wonder how in

[10:30] the world it would be implemented. What do you think? >> It's not realistic. Um, you know, you could offer them to move to Hawaii and they still want and Palestinians still won't leave. Um, and so but what so I I I don't think there's a chance in hell that it's going to be implemented. I think what what is troublesome is the nonchalantness of how this is being reported. I mean I there was a piece in AP yesterday and they just reported as you know and the terminology they use is like all these

[11:01] you know just just very benign terms relocation and resettlement. We're talking about a plan. We're talking about major figures, you know, within these governments, Israel, the Egyptians, uh the Americans, perhaps the South Sudin who are talking about committing a massive crime against humanity of unbelievable proportions. You know, unbelievable proportions. We're talking about forcibly remove

[11:32] trying to remove two million people and again not even just to a different part of their own country or their continents to a whole other continent. >> I mean whatever place with no food and no water and no infrastructure and no medical care >> impoverished and torn by war and we're we're we're not talking about sheep. We're not talking about cattle. We're talking about human beings. Now, a large percentage, as you know, of the people who live in the Gaza ghetto, and it's already it's it's gone beyond a ghetto.

[12:02] It's it's a death camp right now. But a large percentage of those people are already have been displaced from other places in Palestine. In other words, they're already refugees. So, they've been displaced from other parts of Palestine. They've been living in this ghetto for almost eight decades. Now, they're talking and again, they report on it as so nonchalantly like it's Yeah. Well, you know, we're just talking about removing, you know, uh, resettling people. What are you talking about moving at two million people or even if it was less, if it were a thousand

[12:33] people? It doesn't matter to a whole new continent just because Israel wants the land. Just because these group of racist, violent settlers took over Palestine and they don't want to see Palestinians there anymore. I mean, it's insane. It's absolutely insane. The solution for the question of pal of of Gaza is not removing it's not even humanitarian aid. It's liberation of Palestine. It's liberating the concentration camp just like was done after World War II. Certainly the millions of people in camps during World

[13:04] War II needed humanitarian aid. But the goal was liberation. They had to be liberated and the regime that put them there had to be removed. That applies to Palestine now. We should be talking about liberation. this idea and it seems so farfetched, but liberation and the right of return, these are the terms. These are the these are the demands that need to be made um across the board beyond anything else. >> Yeah. And this puts the the Egyptians and the Jordanians in such a bad spot. Fully half the population of Jordan is

[13:35] ethnically Palestinian. Generations and generations of refugees. Uh, and then Egypt, as much as the Egyptian people might want to open the border to help their Palestinian brothers, they know that they can't because that would be abetting the Israelis in their forced removal of Palestinians. And so they're stuck. They're all stuck between Iraq and a hard place. You know, we've we've heard about Israeli ideas to move the Palestinians to Albania, for example. They said, "Oh, it's already a Muslim

[14:06] country. We just send them all to Albania." And then the Albanians said literally, "Hey, nobody mentioned this to us. We're not going to take 2 million uh people. We're one of the poorest countries uh in the hemisphere." And then we heard, "Well, there's this island off the coast of Indonesia. We can put them all there." No, they're not going to send everybody to Indonesia. They can't go to Jordan. They can't go to Egypt. Maybe it's because they shouldn't be going anywhere. maybe they should be just secure in their own homes and on their own property, but nobody

[14:38] wants to talk about that. >> You know, I think it's what makes it even more more uh disturbing is that these are Jewish it's it's the so-called Jewish state that's planting this planting this talking. In other words, these are Jewish people who know what happened to Jews in World War II and and claiming that this is somehow to protect Jewish people that are talking about crimes that are equal, if not worse, than what the Nazis did. You know, I think you know this. I've, you know, in

[15:09] my entire career of speaking and and so on, I never make comparison to the Nazis. But how the it's it's it's impossible not to. We have a concentration camp, which is Gaza. weed. It's become a death camp. There's starvation and and the most worst torture one can imagine. Resources are abundant outside the camp, but they're not letting people have access to the resources. I mean, Palestine is a rich country. There's no lack of resources there, but they're keeping them in there. And they're talking about bringing aid from across the world

[15:41] through through Egypt. I mean, it's it none of this makes any sense. And these are Jewish people that are claiming, you know, all these claims about the Holocaust and how, you know, the terrible things that were happened to Jewish people and these and this is what they're doing. This is what the so-called Jewish state is planning. And the world, like you said, the world is just, yeah, let's go along with it. Why not? I mean, you know, who let's move them to. Are you are we what are we are we out of our minds? Are we even allow this conversation to continue? >> We shouldn't even have the conversation. That's right. >> You're exactly right.

[16:12] should be reported as an attempt to commit a a a horrific crime of massive proportions and instead it's being reported as well just news. There's these plans out there. I I'll it's beyond understanding really. Mika, like you, all my life, I've been very very reticent, very reluctant to compare anything to the Nazis just because of the horrors uh that the Nazis inflicted um on on everybody, everybody that they

[16:42] encountered. But you're right, there are so many parallels now. I mean, ovens aside, look at the parallels. We're talking about ghettos. We're talking about starvation. We're talking about forced removal. We're talking about wanted murder. I mean, you're just standing in line uh waiting for, you know, a a a handful of of grain or something that you can try to to gain some nourishment from. And then the IDF just opens fire on the people waiting in

[17:12] line. There's no clean water. There's no medical care. They've flattened all of the hospitals. Now they're going to go back into Gaza City and finish flattening that. And we would be we would be wrong to not draw comparisons at this point. >> Yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, where where do you where do you even start? I mean, they're they're planning they the the the Israeli cabinet just voted to commit four divisions. So that's somewhere between 80 and 100,000 troops

[17:45] to go in and take the city of Gaza. You wonder what what I mean what first of all it's all destroyed. What else? What is there for these troops to do other than kill more people? You know, they're estimating about people living in the city of Gaza around it. And it's they say, "Well, we want to push them back. You want to push them south. You want to do this. You want to do that." And the world is just, you know, sitting there. I mean, yeah, granted, you know, there's been some condemnation. Uh, Norway did a few things. Other countries

[18:17] were saying things, but it's it's it's beyond belief. It's absolutely beyond belief that this is going on. And now, and I think it's important to remember that the ghettos the the Gaza Strip, so-called Gaza Strip, has been a ghetto from the very beginning, since it was established in, you know, the early 50s. But there are other ghettos. The West Bank is now just a bunch of different ghettos. Palestinians who live in 1948 also live in ghettos. They can't go and live somewhere else. They have more freedom, but they don't have complete, they can't choose where they live, where

[18:47] they work, where they go to school. You know what I mean? They live within limitations, um, very severe limitations as though they were in a ghetto. And this is the reality that Palestinians have had to endure for almost 100 years. It's insane. And the world is just allowing this mythology that somehow the Jews are allowed to do this because of the Holocaust or because of this or because of that. It makes it it not only makes no sense, but it is a kind of cruelty that is beyond understanding. I I want to ask you too about domestic

[19:18] Israeli politics. Netanyahu, despite the fact that he's the longest serving prime minister in Israeli history, has never been universally popular. In fact, his liker has never garnered more than something like 27%. All the governments of course are coalition governments. has to patch together. This one is exceptionally rightwing, but what what is Israeli public opinion right now on these internal military moves? Has has this

[19:49] war um or invasion, it's not even really a war if only one side is armed. Has this Gaza situation rescued him politically? Or are there Israelis who think like you do that this is wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong and they've got to come to some sort of of agreement what divides Israeli society is whether you like or hate Netanyahu that's basically the division like you said his his ability to create

[20:21] coalition governments is the way he's been able to survive this long as prime minister even when he other parties had more seats than him he still became prime minister because he knows he's the horse trader. He's the best and he's really the best politician. He's, you know, he's like he's the he's really the only adult in the room when it comes to Israeli politics. Nobody can nobody can beat him. And so um so but but in terms of Israeli society, so you've got he's got about 55% that are with him and maybe 45% that are against him. And

[20:53] that's been the split all along. In terms of in terms of the genocide, there's very broad support for the genocide in Gaza. The question is, do we pause to somehow allow the uh hostages to return or do we go full blast and not worry about the hostages? And again, that goes the split is about the same. the people that are with it anyhow are okay with what he's just government just decided to do and the people against him

[21:24] are against it and they want to see the hostages returned first. What's also interesting is that the uh you know that they just they they just nom you know they fired the previous army chief staff and now they brought in this new guy which is supposed to be like a you know a great you know great leader whatever whatever you know and now he opposed this plan to go in with four divisions and take the city of Gaza and he even said if that's what you want to do then scrap the the release of the hostages is

[21:56] one of the goals forget that that's that's not going to happen. Um, so now the go so now members of the cabinet are going against him and calling for his removal. And it's very interesting to see that because you know, Israelis are very very involved in in the military far more than any other any other people that I know. I mean, how many people down the street know who the chairman of the joint chiefs is in in this country or the chief of staff of whatever and nobody knows these things, right? The general of this zero that Israelis are so in tune to this. They're like they

[22:26] know all this stuff. And so now this is happening as well that the government is turning against this new army chief of staff which they just nominated and they just uh approved. So uh you know I I think I think Israel society is is really completely being torn at the seams. It's falling apart. But that's a whole other that's a whole other issue. But in terms of the genocide, in terms when it comes to the land, when it comes to the state, when it comes to the Palestinians, this has been the strength of the Zionists from, you know, going back more

[22:57] than 100 years. On those issues, they always unite. On those issues, there are no divisions. They put their divisions aside. And this is and I think it it shows that the weakness of our side of the of the of those who stand for justice and and freedom in Palestine is that we don't have that ability to put our differences aside and work together for liberation. And I think that's one of our that's our main weakness. But in terms of the Zionists, that is why they were able to within 50 years of the

[23:28] invention of Zionism practically to have a state, a Jewish state against all odds with a minority population with, you know, with really very little resources. They had a state within 50 years, which is remarkable, you know, but it's because on the issue of the land, the state, and the Arabs, there's always unity. You know, I was watching an old uh video of President Harry Truman. This was on YouTube just a few days ago. And Truman was giving this address to the nation

[23:58] and he was announcing the creation of the state of Israel and the US recognition of Israel. And he said that um he he knew that he had succeeded because both the Israelis and the Palestinians hated him at the end of the negotiations. So he's declaring declaring victory and and moving on. But one of the things that he said was fascinating to me. It was that the US and other major countries, I think the Russians were second, recognized the state of Israel on that night in 1948. And that recognition of a Palestinian

[24:28] state would come uh following additional negotiations. That was 1948 and we're still waiting for a Palestinian state. Do you think that any of the major Western countries, and I'm going to talk about them in a second, do you think any of them are serious about the creation of a Palestinian state? >> No. I know for a there's there's no question that none of them are serious about it. That's why we need to be

[24:59] serious about it. You know, the only way first of all, I I I want to redefine some of the some of the terms. I would I would argue that the name of the country is Palestine. Israel is a regime that has taken over. >> Yeah, it's a good point. >> This kind of came up a little bit with the, you know, with uh when Israel was attacking Iran, they always refer to Iran as a regime. And I'm like, no, Iran is a country we you like don't like the government. That's whole other issue, but it's an Iranian issue. Um, when it

[25:30] comes to Palestine, Palestine is the country and Israel is the regime. It's a regime that needs to be taken out. It's a regime that has taken over Palestine and has been destroying it. And so the idea of having the state of Israel recognized and postponing the liberation of Palestine that has been a very successful campaign and when we look at what has been what has been the focus on Palestine at least from the largely from the west aid uh you know relief all

[26:02] these NOS's popping up to take care of the poor refugees to take care of this to take care of that and it has imagine if all those millions if billions of dollars and all the working hours of people and the staff and the offices and the buildings and all this infrastructure all this NGO infrastructure that's been invested imagine if all of these resources were put into liberation but what happened was it drained liberation became a bad word liberation was was was associated with terrorism

[26:34] liberation was associated with anti-semitism and all that kind of stuff and so all the effort have gone and And you see some of these NGOs's, they're enormous. And they got more money now, especially now, than they know what to do with. And they're popping up. New new new relief organizations for Gaza are popping up every day. We cannot help the people in Gaza. They won't let the food in. There's nothing we can do. If you want to help the people of Gaza, liberate them so they can have access to the resources. But imagine if all of those resources over the decades and decades and decades since 1948 have been

[27:05] had been invested in liberating Palestine. We wouldn't be here today. we wouldn't be talking about this. Palestine would have been liberated. It would have it would have been free by now. And I think that is that is just just an incredibly important point for people to come to terms with. We need to talk about liberation. That is the way out of the problem that we have. But because there's a crisis and our natural inclination when there's a crisis to try to fix the crisis, we can't fix this crisis without fixing the whole thing. You know, there's never going to be a

[27:36] Palestinian state unless Palestine is liberated and it's becomes and the land that is called Palestine also has a state that is called Palestine and what it should be called. You know, the story that's the name of the country, that should be the name of the state. But again, the West is going back to two-state solution and all these things they know are never going to happen because it's safe and they support aid and they support relief because it's safe and also because it drains. It really does drain the the the you know

[28:07] the efforts for liberation because the the the these NGOs's pay a salary and these NOS's take away people who have come out and they have no other jobs and they open up possibilities and they bring some development. So people naturally gravitate that way and are taken away from the struggle for liberation and they're not even allowed to talk about it when you're working for these. They don't even want you to talk about these things and that's a serious problem. So that's where the west is and I think it's going to stay that way unless we are able to bring about the change. >> Well, along those same lines, the UK,

[28:39] France, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, handful of other countries said that they would recognize Palestine in September. September presumably because of the start of the UN General Assembly, unless the Israelis take concrete steps to end the the siege of Gaza, that's not going to happen. So assuming that these major western countries recognize Palestine and and frankly the rest of the world already has it's just the West that's the hold out. So assuming that this diplomatic recognition happens

[29:12] what exactly would that mean? Would it change anything anything on the ground? >> No. It's a great it's a great thing to do because it's meaningless. >> Yeah. >> And so and cost anything >> well it doesn't cost anything. It doesn't do anything. It doesn't change anything. And so it's safe. That's why all these governments around the world opted to. Their constituents are demanding they do something to Palestine. They don't want to. They're afraid to. They can't. Whatever the reason may be in every particular country. So they say, "Well, we're going to recognize Palestinian state." What does that mean? That means you have a

[29:42] building with a guy sitting there who happens to be called an ambassador. It means nothing. They have no power. They have no They have nothing. If they wanted to do something significant like they would unrecognize Israel, they would kick out the diplomatic missions, the Israeli diplomatic missions. They would impose sanctions. That's recognizing Palestine. Recognizing that Palestine has been taken over by a vicious racist regime. That is meaningful. >> And that's what happened with South

[30:13] Africa in the 1980s. It it wasn't just that countries, you know, attempted to recognize, you know, the ANC, let's say, as the as the legitimate uh representative of of the South African people, they they withdrew diplomatic recognition of South Africa and the government collapsed. >> And if you hosted an event, any event, academic, athletic, sporting event, whatever event, and you invited a South African team, you would be penalized. In

[30:44] other words, it was that severe, that severe. And then, you know, I have a friend who was on the board of Palestine House Freedom and um he was involved in the anti-aparttheide movement in Connecticut and they managed to get the state of Connecticut in 1981 to uh boycott uh South Africa. >> So, in other words, >> 81. >> Yeah. >> Well, that was early. >> That was very early and it took several years. It took a lot of work to do. So I'm saying, you know, that there was a real movement and of course, you know,

[31:15] there was a lot of support. I mean, you know, the there was the Soviet Union, there was Cuba, there were a lot of, you know, serious powers that worked to support the anti-apartid movement and the liberation of of South Africa. We we don't have that right now. Everybody is working with Israel. Everybody is supporting Israel for whatever reason. So we don't have like an ANC or the South African Communist Party that were major players that man managed to really you know great great people that were working within this within this uh leadership. Uh and again because

[31:48] liberation is considered a bad word. Return is considered unacceptable. We we we don't have that. We don't even have anybody talking about these things. And that's a shortcut. That's that's the problem. That's the in in comparison between the two cases, South Africa and Palestine. That is the weakness. That is our weakness. >> You alluded to something when we first started talking um today about the uh the West Bank. The American mainstream media are just now, and I mean like in

[32:21] the last week, beginning to cover the violence that's currently taking place in the West Bank. And by violence, I'm talking about armed Jewish settlers attacking Palestinian villages wholesale. They're killing residents. They're seizing their properties. One of the last remaining Christian villages, Palestinian villages in the West Bank just a couple of weeks ago went to the settlers. Do you see a change in the US media toward the broader conflict?

[32:51] And and forgive me if I'm trying to influence your response. I'm not trying to influence your response, but it just seems to me that anti-Palestinian violence, whether it's on the part of the IDF or the settlers or the average Israeli in the street, has become so bad that it's just impossible to ignore anymore if you are the Associated Press or the Washington Post or the New York Times. And I'm wondering if if this change in attitude among the US media is

[33:25] toward the broader conflict or is this coverage situational in that they just can't ignore it. Ignore it when all this violence is taking place. What do you think? Are we seeing a change or is this just temporary? >> No, I don't think we're seeing a change. I think what we're seeing is um an attempt to just um calm people down and say, you look, we were reporting about it. We're saying something about it. You know, the New York Times just interviewed Zakaria Zve who's

[33:58] really well-known Palestinian local uh you know, leader. He was a you know, he's got a whole history. I New York Times just interviewed in Zakaria's B. That's like huge. you know, he was leader of this uh um of the resistance as a kid. He really became very famous with uh the Janine Theater. Later on, if you remember there was this escape from uh prison, six guys escaped and he was the leader of that. Anyway, he's a really well-known and highly respected and I'm going wow New York Times has interviewed him. Wow. You know, but they

[34:29] only interviewed him to show that he's broken. They interviewed him to show that he's hopeless. you know, he lost his son also in in one of the latest uh attacks on Janine. So, it's it's it's it's horrifying. The problem is again is that there's not a holistic approach to reporting on this. Attacks by Zionists against innocent Palestinian bystanders has has has been going on since the early 20th century.

[35:00] I mean Zionist terrorism I mean Zionist brought terrorism to to Palestine and Zionist terrorism has been has been you know an issue with Palestine is terrorizing Palestine you know since then now you're recognizing that there's a problem it's been going on consistently and it is a policy it's not like a random act of a few crazy people who went and burned a village no look at this look look at the last hundred years in of what Palestinians have been living through

[35:32] the Zionist terrorism. And again, sometimes it's militia, sometimes it's a citizen, sometimes it's somebody who, I don't know, had an issue. It doesn't really matter, but it's systemic. And the problem is that nobody, and again, goes back to the issue of liberation. There's this uh this desire to never show that this is systemic. They're afraid to show that this is systemic, that the ethnic cleansing is systemic, the genocide is systemic, the attacks on Palestinians, the terrorizing Palestinians, the terrorism that is inflicted on Palestinians on a daily

[36:03] basis everywhere in Palestine is systemic. It's part of a plan. It's called ethnic cleansing. That's what this is. It's not only about putting people in trucks and moving them. It's also creating living conditions that are impossible. And they're taking over villages and they're taking over monuments. They just took over. They just, you know, the the religious the the the religious um the important religious uh monuments in Palestine are usually run by um by by the Muslim trust. It's called the walks. Uh one of

[36:37] the most if not probably the second most important uh Islamic uh monument and Islamic site in Palestine is the mosque in Hebron. It's one of the four or five most important Islamic um uh sites in the world and they just handed it over from the what it was a gradual process over the years but they just handed over control of it to the settlers you know there are there are parts of the mosque there that were created when Salahadin was you know by Salah I mean it's

[37:08] historically an incredible and the settlers have been coming and desecrating it the you know for for decades it's been a long story but now officially. Now, who knows about the mosque? A few people. Most people don't. Who reported on this? Hardly anyone. Nobody knows how important this is. The next step is Alaka being handed over to the settlers. There's no question about that. There's already already the heization of Alaka is taking place. This is happening all the time and nobody's reporting about this. Nobody's reporting

[37:40] about this this um you know what what is basically a takeover of all of Palestine by Israel and the elimination of the history of the religion of everything else that is that is um that is Palestinian or Muslim or Arab in Palestine. >> One last substantive question for you Miko. Um just this past week the Israelis killed a reporter and four support staff uh from Al Jazzer. This is a a long-standing pattern. The Israelis,

[38:11] it seems like they enjoy killing uh journalists. Uh I'm still thinking about Shireen Abu Akla, who was wearing a bulletproof vest that said press, a Kevlar helmet that said press, and an Israeli sniper shot her in the face, and then the IDF disrupted her funeral, made the pawbearers drop the the coffin right there in the church. It was just a disaster. But one of the reasons why I'm so upset about all this is just today I read an article saying that the Israeli government has never prosecuted

[38:44] anybody in the death of any journalist ever. Now Netanyahu said I think it was yesterday that well there will be an investigation. He always says that there's always some pretend investigation. I'm assuming that this is an Israeli government policy to murder journalists. Um, if that's the case, why don't they just come clean with it and say, "Look, you know, we don't respect international journalism. You take your life into your hands if you're

[39:14] coming in here. Uh, we may kill you and maybe it's going to be on purpose and maybe it's going to be by accident." I mean, why play this game? >> They kind of do say it. They kind of do say it. I mean, you know, they kind of do say it because we we have a history. You know, I remember when Shirley was murdered, there was a question of uh you know, they were still discussing an accident and it turned out it was a sniper. Okay, a sniper on his own would not do something like that without

[39:45] the backing. And the local commander wouldn't take that responsibility either. The killing of Sharina Blay had to come from the very very top of the Israeli government. Otherwise, they would not have dared to do something like this. So, there's no question that there's a policy and there's and they kind of do say, well, you know, if you're going to come in there, you're on your own here. We can't guarantee your safety kind of thing. But they do say, you know, you're you're we're going to kill you. We don't want you in there. We don't want you to report you. You're you're And then they make they mask it.

[40:16] They said that he was um that Anus was a leader of Hamasil in Isra in the Hebrew nose. They're claiming that the, you know, the international media is anti-Semitic because he was actually, we have information that he was a leader of Hamas. >> Outrageous. >> That's outrageous. But they do they do kind of say it and and and God bless these journalists and these people that go in there anyway to do it. I mean, they are true heroes. >> Yeah, you can say that again. >> So, last question for you and this is

[40:48] this is the same question that I ask you every time we speak. Is there any reason at all to be optimistic? >> Well, I think in the I think in the long run, yes, of course. I think we see Israeli society falling apart. I think uh the aftermath of October 7th has been the you know that there's been a paralysis in the state of Israel. The apartheid state is still in the state of of chaos. paralysis. His society is in a

[41:20] state of chaos like never before. People are at each other's throat. The economy is not doing well thanks to the Yemeni forces. The port of Elat, which as you know is an very important port has completely shut down. Um more and more uh countries are and and not just countries but unions and so forth are are are refusing to uh to work with with ships or planes that go to Israel and that sort of thing. So I think in the long term yes and I think

[41:51] and I think that um I think that the fall of the apartheid state and the creation the liberation of Palestine is upon us without any question and I think we should not lose hope you know not even for one second. I think we need to maintain that um that vision of a liberated Palestine and and the cost obviously is is horrendous. But even with that, we need to to have that vision, you know, in our mind constantly every single day, every

[42:22] single moment so that we fight for it and that we see that vision becoming a reality. But I think hope is not something that we have uh the luxury to give up on. author and activist Miko Pelid. Real quickly, tell us about the uh the Palestine House of Freedom. >> Sure, happy to. Um, we established it, we opened it a little over a year ago as a space for Palestine, unapologetically Palestine. Our mission as a nonprofit is education and our purpose is to educate, to demonstrate through education, that

[42:54] the vision of a liberated Palestine is is is a is is a good thing. It's a hopeful thing. It's the only really way to move beyond the violence and the instability. If you want to see stability and peace and so forth, then removing the apartheid regime and allowing a free democratic Palestine with equal rights to take its place is the way to go. And that's problem is the pe where in this country everybody's invested in the obstacle to peace in the obstacle to stability which is the

[43:24] apartheid state. Um and we have events constantly. We show movies, we have panels, we have speakers, we have community events all the time. Uh we're working with other groups uh outside of the Palestine issue as well in collaboration. And so we've um we're we're we're there. We have proudly display the Palestinian flag on Pennsylvania Avenue as you've seen >> on seen it there too. >> We do that. That's who and it's palestinasfreedom.org if anybody wants to go check us out.

[43:55] >> Excellent. I've been there. It's a beautiful facility and I I would encourage people to check it out as well. So, Miko, thanks so much for joining us and thanks to our viewers for joining us. Please do us that favor of hitting like and share and most importantly subscribe. We'll bring you more great programming. Have a great day.
