Title: S1E21 End Of Times
Show: John Kiriakou's Dead Drop
Date: 2026-03-30
URL: https://sphinx.acast.com/p/open/s/68e695c6d798804c9e4bbd13/e/69c1bb941a160b44dbc6ad12/media.mp3
Duration: 0:40:27

---

[06:32] I worked with him at headquarters. I worked with him at this domestic assignment, and I worked with him in the Middle East. And we became friendly, if not friends. He's actually the guy that threw my going away party for me. It was a nice gesture. Andrew was one of the chosen few. Mary Margaret loved, loved, loved Andrew Warren. The reason she loved Andrew Warren, number one, he was black. Number two, he was a convert to Islam. And number three, he spoke Arabic.

[07:02] He had an unlimited budget. I was actually reprimanded one time because I spent five bucks at a Burger King. And she said, what kind of cover stop is that? I said, it's a legitimate cover stop. I stopped to get something to eat. And she says, well, I'm not approving this $5. I said, fine, I'll just pay the $5. I don't care. It's not like I'm buying antiques or something. Andrew had an unlimited budget. Andrew went on to, from that assignment directly to another Middle Eastern assignment,

[07:33] where he was the chief of liaison in a large station. It's a good assignment for somebody who's going places. After three years in that position, he took one of the station chief positions that I had been offered in 2002. And one day, a woman called the Chargé de Ferre, the acting ambassador. And she said, one of your people, Andrew Warren, raped me last night. She said, he drugged me after a party at his home. And when I woke up, I was naked and in bed.

[08:04] She said to Andrew, what are you doing? And he said, nobody sleeps under my silk sheets for free. The Chargé de Ferre had the presence of mind to send an eyes only cable to CIA headquarters. The CIA cabled Andrew and said, hey, Andrew, we were going through your file. And we realized that you forgot to sign up for the mandatory class on whatever. So fly back, take the class at last two days and then fly back. Andrew got on a plane and flew to Dulles Airport and was arrested there by the FBI.

[08:37] In the meantime, as soon as you got on the plane in the Middle East to come home, the State Department's regional security officer, the head of security for the embassy, went into Andrew's house and found Andrew didn't just rape this woman. He raped 23 women. And we know that it was 23 women because he videotaped every attack. So he could enjoy them again later. They also found a filing cabinet stuffed with classified documents, which is a violation of the Espionage Act. And they found $100,000 worth of luxury watches.

[09:10] They speculated that he had been embezzling CIA money for years and was buying the watches for himself. Only one of the other 22 women agreed to testify against him. Andrew was promptly fired by the CIA. Now, mind you, he was Mary Margaret's protege. She was cultivating him for something really great. They promptly fired him. He moved back home to Norfolk, Virginia. And then one day, as he was awaiting trial on these multiple sexual assault charges,

[09:41] somebody called 911 and said that there was a naked man walking down the street and carrying a gun. SWAT was called out. Andrew ran into a local Holiday and Express lobby, completely nude, held the gun to his head. There was a standoff and they were able to disarm him. They went into his house and they found crack cocaine. They found meth. He had lost his mind. In the end, he took a plea deal to these rape charges. And he was sentenced to six years and four months in a federal prison in Kentucky.

[10:15] He got off easy, very easy. I lost touch with whatever it was that he was doing for years. And then I Googled him about a year ago. And he popped right up. What do you think he popped up for? He decided to go to graduate school in Jordan and get a master's degree in Middle Eastern studies. While he was studying in Jordan, he converted to Islam. The CIA loved, loved, loved that this up-and-coming young black guy who speaks Arabic, he became a Muslim.

[10:46] He's going to make his career in the Middle East and he's going to be the best officer we've ever had. I found when I Googled him that he had converted back to Southern Baptist faith. His father was a Baptist preacher and he became the assistant preacher at a Southern Baptist church in Harlem where he raped an 88-year-old woman. This was Mary Margaret's pet. After Mary Margaret completed her assignment, she was named Deputy Director

[11:18] of National Intelligence. Why? Because John Negroponte was the Director of National Intelligence. They were joined at the hip. And so John appointed Mary Margaret. Mary Margaret immediately violated the Espionage Act by giving a speech covered by the Washington, D.C. National Security Press in which she inadvertently apparently revealed the CIA budget. The CIA budget has been classified at the highest possible levels

[11:49] since the CIA was created in 1947. She just laid it all out there and then said at the end, my bad, sorry about that. She was in that position for a couple of years. And then something happened that it's minor. It made me realize that no, I had not been underestimating her. She really was as bad as I thought she was. An old colleague of her came out with a book. It was one of these. I've been out of the CIA for 25 years. I'm going to write a memoir kind of books by a former Senior Intelligence

[12:21] Service Officer for whom she had worked years earlier. He obviously was trying to throw this book together at the last minute and just get it published. So he asked her for a quote about Afghanistan. And the quote by former Deputy Director of National Intelligence and longtime CIA station chief Mary Margaret Graham was, war is what it is. And I remember saying to my wife, another pearl of wisdom from the brilliant mind of Mary Margaret Graham.

[12:52] Mary Margaret should have known that Andrew Schofer had a problem with forced sex. There were credible allegations that he was involved in sexual misconduct when we were stationed in the Middle East. Catherine actually raised these allegations through the chain of command and was told, Andrew gets results, mind your own business. So I told her, you did the right thing raising this, because at least it's on the record. In all fairness, Mary Margaret wasn't the only factor motivating a post CIA life for me.

[13:25] Catherine and I had gotten married. She was pregnant with our first child. And my other boys were getting a little bit older. They would be teenagers soon. And I really needed to start saving money for college. And I knew that I was going to have to go overseas again. I had to. If I had any prayer of ever being promoted again, I was going to have to go overseas for long stretches of time. I went back to headquarters at one point and I had to go for a day of meetings. I happened to be standing in the elevator lobby. Somebody had taped a flyer up at the elevator lobby advertising a class that was being offered,

[13:59] raising your children in a war zone. And I remember thinking, I'm not taking my children to Baghdad. I'm not doing it. I didn't quit that day, of course. In the back of my mind, that's what pushed me. I couldn't have done this child custody visitation thing without my mom and dad. One day, it was a Wednesday. I called my dad in the morning before I went to work. I said, how's your day look today, dad? Oh, I went over to the old house yesterday and the basement is starting to smell a little musty. I'm going to take a dehumidifier over there.

[14:31] My dad had Parkinson's disease, so he trembled and his balance was not good. I said, dad, I'm coming home day after tomorrow. I'll take the dehumidifier over to the old house. Quote unquote, the old house was an absolutely stunning. It's called an arts and crafts four square bungalow. It was a big brick house in what was then called the Chicago style gigantic front porch, the perfect place to grow up. It was built in 1910. Sometimes the basement got musty.

[15:02] It was an old house. So I said, don't take the dehumidifier over. I'll take the dehumidifier over. I'm coming home in two days. That afternoon at five o'clock, just as I was leaving the office, my cell phone rang and I see that it's my mom. So I said, hi, mom. What's going on? It's not my mom. Hi, I'm so and so I'm a neighbor of your parents. What happened? Your dad fell down the steps at the house on Fairfield, but he's conscious. He's conscious.

[15:33] Is he injured? And she said, he's injured and there's an ambulance on the way. I'll be there as quickly as I can. I ran back to my apartment. I told Catherine what was happening in my distress and crazed state. I packed a dozen pairs of underwear and no pants and I jumped in my car and I got to Pittsburgh, which is a seven hour drive in four and a half hours. Catherine called me on the way and she said, what's the latest?

[16:03] He's unconscious. His skull is fractured in two places. And he's being life-flighted to Pittsburgh. And then she said to me, you took all of your underwear and no pants. Honey, I don't mean to sound harsh, but I'm going to pack a black suit and a black tie for you. And I said, okay. So the whole time I am driving like a bat out of hell. I get to Pittsburgh at 1130 p.m. I go to the shock trauma unit. It buzzed me in. My mom's in there beside herself.

[16:35] What happened was, she got home from work at 430. My dad is just standing there in the driveway with the dehumidifier on a dolly. She said, what are you doing? John said he's coming home in two days. He'll take the dehumidifier over to the house. And he said, John wants to play with the kids. He doesn't want to spend time taking the dehumidifier over. Let's just do it right now. They drive the mile over to the old house. You know how these old houses are. There was a back door that went straight down into the basement.

[17:07] And it was rather steep. My dad goes first and my mom says, wait a minute, wait a minute. Let me go first. I'll lift it and you steer it. And the last words that he spoke were, Stella, I promise I won't fall. And as soon as he said the words, he went backwards. And he landed on his head. The cellar floor was made of concrete. And he fractured his skull at the back. And there was a compression fracture over his left ear.

[17:38] And my mom said that blood squirted out of both of his ears. He never regained consciousness. She screamed. She ran to the neighbor. The neighbor called 911. The house is empty. There are no telephones, no nothing. The neighbor called 911. The ambulance came. They determined immediately that they couldn't do anything for him. So they put him on a helicopter and flew him to Pittsburgh. I get to shock trauma at 1130. My mom is in the room with him. I'm holding his hand. I can feel his Parkinson's tremor.

[18:09] His hand is shaking. And then right at midnight, his hand just stopped shaking. The doctor happened to walk in at that moment. And I said, I can't feel his Parkinson's tremor. The doctor said, well, I need to examine him. Do you mind stepping out? So I went into the waiting area with my mom. The doctor came out and said, his injuries are very severe. He's bleeding on his brain. And the blood is so pressurized that it's literally forcing his brain down into his spinal column.

[18:41] I said, when are you going to do the surgery? What surgery? The surgery to relieve the pressure on his brain. I don't think you're understanding me. And I said, are you saying that he's dead? I'm very sorry. My mom just collapsed. My brother was in Los Angeles. I called him. I called my sister in Minneapolis. I said he's dead. He's brain dead. We decided to keep him on life support until they could fly in. I had to call Joanne. I was going to pick up the kids instead of Friday, pick them up the next day

[19:15] so that when we took him off life support, at least I'll say goodbye. The next day was just, whoa, man, it was a whirlwind. I picked up my brother at the airport. I picked up my sister at the airport that I drove to Ohio and picked up the kids. There was a social worker that the hospital had. So she kind of briefed us that when they unplugged the machine, he could live for weeks. He died in 15 minutes. We barely had time to run back into the room.

[19:49] My mom had been diabetic for 25 years. She was so distressed with my dad's death that it aggravated a case of diabetic retinopathy that she had. And in the next three weeks, she went blind. Summertime and living is easy, am I right, John? That is one of the best parts of Summer Allen. Living really does feel easier. You're about to travel. Good thing you've got a couple of quints pieces going with you. They are as relaxed and comfortable as I want to feel.

[20:21] That's why, whether I'm traveling or staying at home, I reach for the same quints, go anywhere pieces again and again. Quints focuses on well-made essential. They're the t-shirt I reach for first every time. In all seriousness, I just bought another one today. They're my favorite t-shirts too. And when the ocean breeze kicks in at night, as it does here in LA, a quince lightweight cotton sweater is sublime. And perfect for travel too, which these days has all kinds of new challenges that impact how you pack. So versatility really matters.

[20:53] You got to pack smart like a spy. That's why a pair of quince's 100% European linen pants and a couple of linen shirts are coming with me. They're breathable and easy to throw on. Sometimes I add a t-shirt underneath for a whole other look. They're the summer upgrade anyone's rotation needs. Starting at just $34. That's not a typo. No, it's not. Everything at quince is priced 50% to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middleman. So you're paying for exceptional quality, not for brand markup.

[28:04] Oh my God, that sounds like so much fun. So she said, let me put you in touch with our partner. He happens to be in New York. My head was spinning because to tell you the truth, I thought that I would retire from the CIA after 30 years and live happily ever after. I really did. This whole idea of leaving the agency happened so quickly, I almost didn't have a chance to process it. Catherine was so incredibly level-headed that I said to her, give it to me straight. Should I just tough this out and not be promoted for the next three years

[28:38] and then move on to some shit assignment because Mary Margaret's going to trash me in my performance evaluation, in which case it's going to take me three more years to get back on track again, or should I bolt? And she said, this job sounds so good. If it's real and they're telling you the truth, you can't pass it up. I took a day off work and I went to meet this partner in New York. He had been a 20-year CIA veteran.

[29:08] His deputy was a 10-year CIA veteran. They had both moved to Deloitte. It turned out that the whole team had six CIA people in it, a retired secret service guy, and a retired FBI agent. It was perfect. I interviewed with him. It went gangbusters. And he said to me, I'm going to give you a paper application. You couldn't apply online back then. They weren't that sophisticated. I'm going to give you a paper application. I want you to fill it out and be absolutely honest,

[29:39] especially when they ask about any association with law enforcement. If you had a speeding ticket, you've got to write the speeding ticket down. I've had two speeding tickets, one in Brooklyn and one in Ohio, because I was late picking up the kids. I wrote it all down. HR called me. They flew me to Washington. I had a day of meetings in Washington. And then the New York guy called and said, I have a formal offer for you. And he told me verbally over the phone, I said, I'll take it. So I was able to go into Mary Margaret Graham's office and say, I quit.

[30:11] And there's nothing you can do to hurt me. My words to her were, the only thing I want from you is a review that accurately reflects my performance here. That was it. All I wanted was for her to tell the truth on my performance evaluation. I just assumed that she would do something to harm me after I left. And in fact, she did. I had very important high ranking former colleagues call me after I left to say that she had issued something called a burn notice against me. There was even a television series called Burn Notice that ironically, I was the script advisor for.

[30:44] Burn Notice is an order CIA wide that nobody can ever have any contact with you again. And you're banned from ever being rehired. In the meantime, Mary Margaret's trying to save face. She knows that I have friends and supporters among the staff. She makes this station wide announcement that I'm leaving her words because I accepted more money than God had. She had no idea what I was going to make. And that she was granting me some exceptional performance award and a medal.

[31:16] They meant these medals all the time. They don't mean anything. But she was issuing me a medal for my performance. But she and I would be the only people to see what she was actually going to write for my performance. It's one thing to say in the break room. Oh, John was so wonderful. We're giving him this medal and then to just screw me in writing where it counts. The next thing I know, I'm summoned to her office. It wasn't just her. It was her, the deputy station chief and the chief of operations. The chief of operations was a weakling. Ironically, now I see him in the green room at Fox News, some regularity.

[31:50] At first, the first time I ran into him, we were both going on the Tucker Carlson show. And he was hoping that I didn't recognize him. And of course I recognized him. He looks exactly the same as he did 20 years ago. And I remembered his name and he's like, you know, I was ordered to be in that meeting. I didn't really want to be in that meeting. But it was 20 years ago. Don't worry about it. I go to the meeting. It's the three of them versus me. She was as confrontational and as bitter as she had ever been. That was when I threatened her with the Washington Post.

[38:50] Until next time, thanks for listening. I'm John Kiriakou. Dead Drop is written by John Kiriakou and Alan Katz. Costard and Touchstone Productions produces the podcast and John Kiriakou, Alan Katz and Nick Mechanic are its executive producers. This podcast, it's a costard and touchstone production.
