Title: CIA Cover-Up on JFK Exposed
Show: DeProgram Show with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas
Date: 2025-11-20
URL: https://youtu.be/xcrldA-Golc
Duration: 58:00

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[00:08] Good morning. You're watching the program with Ted R and John Kuryaku. It's Thursday, November 20th, 2025. Thank you for joining us and good morning, John. >> Good morning, Ted. How you doing? >> I'm doing good. A little cold where I am, but that's what it's supposed to be in mid mid to late November. Um, so, uh, yeah, you know, I always look for CIA related news for us for obvious reasons. And, uh, today there was, uh, more than usual. There was more than usual yesterday. I don't know, there's something in the air. Um, so, uh, lots

[00:41] going on. Uh, I know you may have a few mild opinions about Ambassador Mike Cuckabe's meeting with the, uh, freaking [clears throat] >> proud American patriot Jonathan Bard. Um, that's a crazy story. >> Huckabe should be fired right now. Right now. >> We will talk about that obviously. Um, you know, uh, whenever I see CIA cover up in JFK assassination, I always think conspiracy [ __ ]

[01:12] >> Yeah. >> Today though, this is a mainstream story. This is in Politico. It's in Axios. Former CIA historian is stepping forward as a whistleblower. It's really interesting. Um, so about what you know, basically there's still stuff coming out from this thing that happened, you know, basically a couple of months after I was born and I was born in 1963. Um, so we'll get into that. Uh, Donald Trump is meeting with his new bestie, Zoron Mandani, tomorrow.

[01:43] >> I know it's crazy. at the Oval Office and you know whatever else y'all want to talk about uh in the Rumble and YouTube live chats. If you're watching live, you can go ahead and type that in and uh we uh producer Robbie West will uh post it up to us and uh we will answer your questions as much as we can. We are here Monday through Friday 9:00 a.m. Eastern time. Uh and so uh please like, follow, and share the show. We really need and uh des and really appro

[02:15] and uh really appreciate your generous support uh in all respects for the show including but not exclusively financially. Um and so John, what would you like to I have a feeling you might like to talk about ambassador Huckabe. >> I feel like exploding about Huckabe. So, it turns out that last July, Ambassador to Israel, U, former governor of Arkansas, Mike Huckabe, and the deputy chief of mission, [snorts] uh, met with convicted spy Jonathan

[02:48] Pard. Now, Jonathan Pard was convicted uh in the 1980s, 1985, I believe it was, convicted of spying for Israel and sentenced to life in prison. 30 years, um it was the minimum that he had to do. He served the 30 years. And I should add, all the years that I was at the CIA, every single time an Israeli prime minister would come to meet with the president, they would ask us to bomb

[03:20] Iran and to release Pard. And every single time whoever happened to be president said no. Pard was finally released what, 10 years ago now. >> That's right. He was immediately granted Israeli citizenship, flown back to Israel on an Israeli military plane, >> greeted as a hero. >> Greeted as a hero by Benjamin Netanyahu at the airport, and instantly bestowed with Israeli citizenship. Now he has the

[03:52] balls, the unmititigated gall to run for the Knesset in the next election as an independent but associated with the extreme rightwing of Israeli politics. >> He wants to annex the occupied territories completely. >> Correct. Now, we already know, all of us know that Mike Huckabe is so far to the right that he's actually fallen off the edge. >> [clears throat] >> He's an evangelical lunatic. He has no

[04:23] business being in any governmental position, but he was in an early endorser of Donald Trump. And because he's an evangelical and wants all the Jews to return to Israel so that Jesus can come back and the rapture can happen, which never appears anywhere in the Bible, by the way. >> True. >> Um, >> and doesn't seem like a good deal for the Jews, by the way. >> Yeah, it doesn't. No, cuz it's the end of the world. Exactly. >> Yeah. They're just they're just the lynch pin. It's like they're they're the

[04:54] red shirts in this Star Trek episode. >> This clown has got to go. Uh he won't say and I should add they kept the pard meeting off the uh embassy's calendar. So only now are people finding out about it and only because somebody called the New York Times and told them. And then the New York Times was able to confirm it with two other people inside the embassy. They interviewed Pard and he said, "Yeah, I met with Huckabe. I'm not going to tell you what we talked about.

[05:25] Huckabe has to resign today." >> So So is I I want to be really clear here. So, um, he should resign because of the breach of protocol. He should resign because of the cowtowing to a traitor. He should like all of the above more. >> Yes. >> I I I Yes to all of those. Yes. Yes. And another thing too, the Post and the Times are reporting today, and I think this is quite important, that the White

[05:56] House had no idea that this meeting took place and that they're apoplelectic that it took place. When, listen, I I've worked in embassies for half my adult life. When an ambassador is meeting with somebody who is controversial, >> they have to they have to cable the secretary of state to ask permission. >> Huckabe did not he did not do that. >> What was Huckabe thinking? Why did Why

[06:26] did he Why did he think I mean Donald Trump does not strike anyone as the kind of person that you do this to? Um, you know, I mean, you wouldn't like it if you were president. I wouldn't like it either. Is he gonna survive this? >> You know what? I think he will survive it only because Donald Trump seems to like the guy, but no other ambassador. >> Also, he must worry about looking weak, too, right? So, if he it'll it'll be kind of a tacit admission if he fires

[06:57] Huckabe that like Huckabe pulled the wool over his eyes. Unless unless Trump calls him and says, "Mike, you gotta resign. This is unacceptable." And again, the both the Post and the Times report that Huckabe, I'm sorry, they report that Pard called Trump a madman who has literally sold us down the drain for Saudi gold. >> You know, takes one man madman to no

[07:28] one. I mean, Jonathan Pard, I mean, I remember that very, very vividly. I mean, you know, anyone who's old enough, let's say over 50, remembers that very well. And >> I mean, he he really I mean, he probably made the strongest case against dual citizenship of of any human being I've ever and and just so people remember, I'm going to turn this light off real quick. Just so people remember what it was that Pard did. Pard sold top secret

[08:01] military cables and NSA intercepts to the Israelis. Sold it right for money. >> The Israelis then traded that top secret information to the Soviet Union in exchange for Soviet Jews being allowed to settle in Israel. >> Pard did it for the money. >> He was a traitor for money. This was not um you know like uh this was not a Kim Philby situation.

[08:33] >> Absolutely not. [snorts] >> Um okay. I mean look I I I think it's disgusting too. Um I I hope the president does the right thing. Uh I have doubts to say the least. Um okay. Um we have some questions. Let's get to them. Fo thanks for the dollar. Um, what do you make of the military Egyptian planes following Erica Kirk as reported by Candace? >> Um, you know, I I checked that out. I don't I don't think it ever happened. Candace is literally the only person on

[09:04] earth who's reporting this. >> It's picked up by the Times of India and the Hindustan Times and it's got a life of its own around, you know, social media, but I just don't think this has ever this ever happened. Uh yeah, I I that was my take as well. Uh wouldn't be the first time that her quote unquote reporting is uh less than than waterproof. Um Three Birds, One Stone on Rumble asks, "Maybe we should start the show, although a little late with that for that, with how the Israelis killed more than 100 Palestinians last night and improvised explosive exploded 124 buildings in Gaza

[09:37] in a single day. What a ceasefire they're keeping." >> Yeah, >> that's a very I'm glad I'm glad that you brought that up. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's absolutely disgusting. I mean, here's the thing, right? Like, you pointed this out months ago that the Israelis have a long-standing practice of blowing up every ceasefire that they ever agreed to. >> They got kic they got dragged into this one kicking and screaming by President Trump. Yes. >> Um and uh and obviously they're trying to screw it up every way that they possibly can.

[10:08] >> Trump is kind of in a really difficult position, right? Because [clears throat] if he if he calls up Netanyahu and yells at him about this, then, you know, he risks BB saying, "Okay, fine. [ __ ] you. Back to war." Um and and and then which is exactly what what Netanyahu wants. Um for a variety of reasons that we've discussed here a billion times. Yeah. Um uh the but if he doesn't do it, he comes off as a puss, >> which is not good either. That's right. >> I don't know. I don't know what I would

[10:39] do in this situation. Um I think I think I would be starting to look at threatening them with cutting off aid. I mean that's always been where >> that's what George HW Bush did. And you have to be serious about it. >> It's the only thing that gets their attention, right? >> That's it. That's it. And he didn't even cut off aid. uh George HW Bush um temporarily suspended loan guarantees for new Israeli settlements in the West Bank. [clears throat]

[11:11] >> That's Yeah, that doesn't seem like such a a big deal. Well, okay. Fo, thanks for the extra dollar. Um has the CIA ever assassinated their own agents or officers like they're some kind of cartel or prison gang? Uh, not that's ever been reported. Um, I don't know. You know, pre-1975 was the bad old days. It I I I honestly can't say no, but I don't know of any such

[11:41] incidents. >> Yeah, I don't remember reading any allegations to that effect. It It seems Wouldn't you say that seems a little bit I think it's unlikely. Yeah, I I would call it unlikely. Yeah, >> John, this is from Ali Y3T. John, you mentioned on Julian Dory, your first boss who wrote books on history of political relations of countries, but I couldn't find his name. Maybe I missed it. Could you let us know his name? >> Yep. That was uh Bruce Ryell. Bruce was one of the one of the best bosses I ever

[12:12] had. and um and in his retirement he's been absolutely prolific uh in um in uh his his uh book production. It's incredible. >> Another dollar from Fuso Fuso is that keeps bringing bringing the dropping the George Washingtons. Uh if you were or Saka Joas depending uh if you were to be a corrupt spy would you rather be recruited by a hot Chinese spy or a hot Russian spy?

[12:44] Oh jeez. Oh man, what a totally loaded question. >> I'd have to say Russian for me. >> Yeah, I'd have to go with the Russian >> just because, you know, isn't Pard also ethnically Jewish? For sure. >> 100%. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, no doubt. He even he I'll tell you what I I served in prison with a with a mob guy named um well I won't say it was I don't want to I don't want to embarrass him but anyway good guy from the uh from Philadelphia and he

[13:15] was at the penitentiary in Butner with uh with Pard and he said Pard was such a little mouse he said everybody just wanted to beat the daylights out of him so they kept him for the most part in the medical unit just for his own protection. >> Now he looks like Dave Letterman with a post beard like like a like a [ __ ] wild man living like hill. >> Yeah, he looks like a crazy person. >> He didn't used to look like that at all. Uh you know, he used to look like Williamsburg man. Um

[13:47] okay, Nicholas Franco asks, "Why do we think the majority of Jews coming from the Soviet Union are so right-wing?" I don't know if that's necessarily true, but I mean, you know, look, the thing is my take is always that refugees tend to be the uh you know, they they tend to leave their home country because they're opposed to the ideology of their home country, which is like the anti-Castro Cubans and so on. So, you know, the Soviet Union was a socialist country. So, you know, if you didn't love socialism, you know, you're you left,

[14:19] right? I mean, that's what do you think? >> Yeah, I think that's right. Although it is my understanding that Ukrainian Jews who have left Ukraine to move to Israel are exceedingly right-wing. Um I've I've even spoken to Israeli journalists who have told me that there are so many right-wing Ukrainian Jews that have moved there just over the last 20 or 25 years that it's pushed the entire electorate to the right. >> Crazy. >> Yeah. I mean that's super interesting. I mean that is a country that has a lot of

[14:50] uh you know immigration uh in and that country and and their demographics change really radically in a relatively short amount of time as a result. I mean we don't have that level of immigration in this country. Our our demographics we sh we shift slowly. >> Yeah, we do. We shift slowly and a country of only 9 million people can shift very quickly when you have these huge influxes. >> Yeah. 100,000 is a lot of people for in a country of 9 million people. >> That's right. >> Um a quadruple JXYZ. Do you think do we

[15:23] think the un unveiled corruption in Ukraine unveiled [laughter] my ass? It's like it's always been in open uh in plain sight will influence the Western support in any ways. It's a great question though. Um you we're talking about of course the recent scandal um of the people surrounding Zalinski. Yeah. uh in this um you know energy bribery uh kind of thing which kind of has echoes of the Hunter Biden Berisma [ __ ] Um you

[15:54] know I don't what what do you think John? I I I I don't think that the US is going to back away from Ukraine. I mean you know corruption goes with the territory over there. It does. >> And and it's like it's it's not unusual. And it's doesn't it remind you a little bit of Hamid Carzi where it's like basically like everyone around you is corrupt as [ __ ] >> but no one can prove that you personally took money. This isn't like Eric Adams who is personally corrupt and was had credible charges filed against him. I mean, nobody really I mean, Zilinski

[16:26] suddenly is rich and has this place in, you know, on Lake Ko, but he's maybe he was just a he has a lot of good a lot of good residuals from his acting career or I mean, we can't prove it, right? But like Hamid Carzai, you certainly could never prove that he personally was lining his pockets. This is kind of like President Harding or something like that. I I I think that's a good way to uh to say it and and President Harding [laughter] is probably the right uh the

[16:59] right comparison to make. Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that. But you know what's painful too, Ted, is that nobody seems to really care no >> when leaders are corrupt now. >> Well, nobody cares about their whether we're talking about domestic or foreign affairs. Nobody cares when their own side is called out. I mean, basically, there's never a thing where it's like, "Oh, I supported this candidate or this party, but now I've learned new information that that they're a turd, so

[17:29] therefore I no longer support them anymore." That doesn't happen anymore. You're just like, now you just make excuses or you just brush it off or you do what aboutism or you know, but you don't change your mind. You don't back away. Like literally nothing can make you do that. Like you could if your person if your guy your candidate turns out to be a pedophile you're like ah whatever you know the other side's worse no matter what it is. >> I I feel like that's a change. I don't think that was true. I think about you

[18:00] know when I was a little kid you were a little kid during Watergate. Nixon won by a landslide in 1972. By 1974, you couldn't find anyone who admitted that they voted for. >> You know what, George George McGovern told me something one time that was so funny. He said that that in 1972 he [snorts] got 39% of the national vote, but >> he only got South Dakota and the District of Columbia. >> No, he lost South Dakota. He got Massachusetts.

[18:30] >> Okay. My god. >> And the District of Columbia. Ridiculous. Then in 1974, two years later, 65% of Americans told pollsters that they voted for McGovern. [laughter] >> That is that is that is the total uh you know, victory has a thousand fathers and defeat as an orphan. It really is true. >> It is true. >> Um >> yes, it is. >> Rebellious rainbow unicorn. Is the CIA more out of control now compared to pre995, John? pre195 absolutely yes. No,

[19:04] no question. Pre-1975 I think that um that it's comparable. Pre-1975 the CIA was just going around the world doing anything it pleased. They were killing world leaders. They were overthrowing governments. Half the time they weren't even bothering to inform the president what they were doing. And >> doping kids with LSD. >> Doping kids. Doping their own employees with LSD. Yeah. and um they they had seriously cleaned up their act by 1995. I talk often about the the so-called

[19:36] cull that uh Bill Clinton initiated in 1993 where he ordered the CIA to fire every recruited source who had a human rights problem in his past and fully onethird of the CIA sources were were fired. Um, those days are gone and they're never coming back. >> So, can you explain like why do you think why do you think the CIA in other words, how did the CIA get so out of

[20:08] like what causes it? What caused it to happen before 75? I know the church committee came in afterwards and there were all the scandals because of Philip Agi and all that, but like when the CIA is more under control, >> what's the difference between that and a and a time like now when they're out of control? Like what's the, you know, is it leadership? Like what is it? >> Um, it is the nature of the CIA. It's the the the collective mindset of the CIA to push the envelope as far as you can push until somebody in the White

[20:40] House pushes back or somebody on Capitol Hill pushes back. It's they >> it's the culture. >> It's the culture. They they called it um um kingdom building. Kingdom building is what they called it when I was there. Everybody in a position of authority at the CIA wants to build his or her own kingdom. And so you just keep pushing the the boundaries of legality until somebody pushes back and the next thing you know they're doing anything they damn well please.

[21:11] There's almost zero congressional oversight and at the White House there they just throw up their hands and say well what can we do? There's nothing we can do. >> And these days so so it's the lack of uh interest in reigning them in coming from the White House. You would say >> I would and and I would say the inability to rein them in on the part of the congressional oversight committees. >> Why are they unable to? >> Because there are about um 40 employees of the Senate Intelligence Committee and

[21:43] about 60 employees of the House Intelligence Committee and 40,000 employees at the CIA. >> That's a good answer. >> And you just can't you can't handle it. Um, okay. Uh, Peruse, a JFK related question. Have you from Peru? Have you met or worked with David Talbet >> and and what do you think about his work? My impression is that he's not in good health nowadays. I'm sorry to hear that about David. Poor >> David. You know him? [clears throat] >> Yeah. He David wrote the uh the forward for my third book. He's a he's a lovely

[22:14] guy and one of the most highly respected contemporary historians that's out there. He had a debilitating serious stroke. his second stroke a few months ago and um the last I heard was unable to to care for himself, unable to speak and certainly unable to write. The poor guy. >> He was the editor of Salon. >> Yeah, he was. >> And uh I I so my only interaction was trying to get him to run my cartoons. He ran the cartoons of four of my colleagues who were very similar to the

[22:45] kind of work that I did. So I thought I kind of belonged naturally in that orbit. It's the kind of and yet and you know he he was nice but he obviously it's one of those things where he he obviously didn't like my work and just didn't want to say so and uh and he never ran it ever and uh you know it was it was always fr a source of frustration to me but you know he's allowed to not like my work um you know that was my interaction with him he was always polite he was always polite but albeit a little weasly about it um editors USX X

[23:19] A-Rod 21. Thanks for the $2. Have you seen the ide Polish train tracks with C4 explosives? Was Poland right to worry about Putin and his ambitions? Or is this mind games Putin is playing? Is there a real issue? In other words, is there a real danger of Russia invading Poland here? >> Yeah. Um, yes, the polls have reason to be uh to be worried. Really? Yeah, I do. I I do believe that. Listen, the

[23:49] Russians the Russians are just like every other country, just like every other superpower or regional superpower. Um they're going to they're going to carry out um uh operations against the countries that they believe are threats to them. And sometimes those operations are are large scale and sometimes they're small scale. But sabotage is just a normal a normal thing. >> I mean it's almost I mean it's not really I mean it's almost an act of war, right? I mean going into a sovereign

[24:19] state and country transportation infrastructure. >> Absolutely right. >> But listen, even if they got caught, nobody's going to go to war over some train tracks. >> I got to but I do I think I just I disag would invade Poland. >> No. No. I don't think absolutely not because to invade Poland is to invade NATO and then it's going to require a massive response. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, Destined for Nothing says, "John, I saw a job posting yesterday now removed for a director of identity

[24:51] intelligence at Health and Human Services." Oh, sorry. Uhuh. HHS. Yeah, Health and Human Services. Can you shed some light on what that could mean? A director of identity intelligence. >> The word identity throws me. I I honestly don't know what that could mean. It's It's not unusual for almost every federal department to have an intelligence office. Uh, for example, there's a there's a CIA representative from the analytic side, from the director of intelligence at Treasury, at commerce, at energy, they're all over

[25:23] the place. Um, just because there is intelligence that comes in every day that needs to be shared with the leaderships of those departments, right? Maybe you pick up something about threats to air travel or about some germ that's been developed somewhere or you stole the Japanese, you know, trade negotiation talking points and you need to share them or whatever. Uh, but identity intelligence,

[25:53] it it doesn't have a meaning for me. I'm not sure what that is. >> I mean, all I can think of is HHS has clients. Maybe they want to know if they're US US citizens or they they want to know who they are, >> but that would that would normally fall it's possible, but that would normally fall under the Office of Security. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, yeah, I have no I have no clue here. Um >> Oh, rebellious rainbow. Rebellious. And see, I remember I remembered just to say rebellious instead of the whole

[26:24] rebellious rainbow unicorn. >> [laughter] >> says identity access is cyber security. That would make sense. >> Thank you for that. >> Uh Nicholas Franco, do you see do we see Trump getting the rare earth medals from Ukraine as per that deal? It seems to me that Putin is getting all of them. Well, Putin has occupies the territory where they are and that territory is never going back to Ukraine ever. >> No sir. So >> it is not. By the way, thank you so much

[26:55] RC2020. Longtime listener and viewer is now a monthly supporter of GP program. >> Oh, thank you. >> Much appreciate it. >> Fuso, here's a buck. John, this is your question. What would it take to actually reform or dismantle the CIA? >> Can I get away with saying stay tuned to this uh channel? >> Yes, you you you can. And I know why. Um, yes. >> I'm I'm hoping to have kind of a big announcement in the next two weeks.

[27:26] >> Yeah, that'll be cool. Maybe two. Maybe two announcements. Maybe. >> May maybe two announcements. >> All right. Um, Kahunk Kapun T589. Do we think that Israel has crossed the point of no return in regards to how the world sees Israelis or does it take time and people will forget that Israel committed genocide? I think 100% there's no going back. I mean, I think it's so radical at this point. Um, you know, they've fallen off the cliff in international opinion polling and domestic opinion polling and

[27:57] most importantly with young people, which means that these are opinions that are baked into the generations that are going to be moving forward over the next few decades. Um, I don't see even if Israel were to if ne were to say we were wrong, we apologize. We want to help create a Palestinian state. I mean, you know, none of these things are going to happen. But even if they did that, I think it's it's not going to be forgiven. I think it went on for so long. It was so extreme and now it's

[28:28] being so reported. It's baked in. I don't see that being I think it's I think Israel's kind of dead to a significant percentage of the population. What do you think? >> With the exception of Arab countries who do as they're told and don't give don't give a [ __ ] about the Palestinians. Yeah, the Israelis are not going to expand their their list of uh you know global countries that uh that they can rely on

[28:59] for support. I I personally believe the Israelis are beyond the point of no return. I really do. too. Uh there and I don't think I mean and just to be clear the Arab countries you're talking about, John, I don't want to put words in your mouth ever, but we're talking about the governments of those countries, not the citizens of those. >> That's right. That is exactly right. Glad you said that. [snorts] >> Okay. So, um let's talk about while we're while we're talking all things CIA, let's talk about the JFK assassination, which uh took place 62 years ago um this coming Saturday,

[29:32] November 22nd. Um, former CIA historian Tom Percy uh says that he basically was doing research in a CIA safe room back in 2009 while looking researching Latin American policy in the CIA and he came across a 50-page IG inspector general's report from 1978 in which this was a period during under the Carter administration during the Church Committee when the CIA was really on the hot seat for the abuses in Latin

[30:03] America. And uh they basically were laughing about the memo, laughing and bragging about uh fooling Congress about what Lee Harvey Oswald was up to in Mexico City before he killed JFK. Um the uh the det shows basically it's this is kind of considered a a blueprint for how you can lie to Congress uh as a government agency spec and uh and basically there were sanitized in other

[30:33] words uh expuned duplicates of files sent to the House Select Committee Chief Counsel. They got rid of all the key evidence >> and they insulted him. They they insulted him by calling him incurious. Well, it sounds like they weren't wrong. It sounds like he didn't he he sort of did a give everything a quick over, you know, 20 30 minute glance and then back to scotch on the rocks, right? Um and um yeah, and that's probably true, but although it is it's always kind of funny to me when someone uh engages in

[31:04] pernitious activity like this and then laughs at their victims for being stupid. Um >> yes, >> which I guess is what happened here. Um, John, can you talk a little bit about this? I mean, you know, first of all, this sounds credible to me. Um, what was Lee Harvey Oswald up to in Mexico City before the November 22nd? >> He he was there to meet at the Soviet embassy, which turned him away, and at

[31:38] the Chinese embassy, which also turned him away. Uh we only learned recently that that the CIA was surveilling him in Mexico City in this most recent trunch of uh of documents. Uh but the CIA denied and denied and denied that they had any knowledge of Oswald being in Mexico City. That was a lie. And another lie is, and we just learned this in the latest trunch, the other lie was that um that the CIA had no contact with Oswald.

[32:09] And not only did they have contact with Oswald, but James Angleton, the deputy director for counter intelligence, ordered that the CIA recruit Oswald, even if Oswald didn't realize he had been recruited. So, you know, >> what would that look like? >> Oh, you can you can do it as a false flag. You can do it pretending to be Russian, for example, or you can say you're a businessman looking to hire a consultant. Uh, you can do you can tell

[32:40] any kind of lie you want just to set the person's mind at ease. >> Why was the CIA um why did they feel a need to not reveal that? What would be what would have been exposed by them just saying, "Yeah, you know, we were surveilling him and here's what we knew." Yeah, that's that's just inexplicable, Ted. The the CIA would have been so much better off, the country would have been so much better off just being honest from the beginning. Just >> or did they think it would raise

[33:10] additional questions? >> I think they probably did, but but you and I, we just said this a couple of days ago, didn't we? That it the cover up is always worse than the crime. And so, yeah, >> but they just didn't want to It sounds to me like they just didn't want to be >> Well, you know, basically they didn't want to be second-guessed. Like, didn't you know he was g he was plotting to kill the president? If if so, why didn't you, you know, or did you know and did you let it happen? Did you continue to surveil him when he came to Dallas?

[33:42] Right. I mean, they just didn't they just did they couldn't they just didn't want to be bothered. It sounds like >> I think that's exactly what it was. and and just gloating that the that the chief investigator was incurious. That that leads me to believe that it was an issue of gloating. >> That's that's uh and then um thanks for the uh $299 Australian dollars from Tabby Jay. Unfortunately, Tabby, we have already answered your question. Why has Huckabe met with uh Jonathan Pard in

[34:12] Jerusalem? Um we talked about that earlier in the show. Um, but uh, thanks for the thanks for the 299. Just hit rewind. Um, >> hey, um, uh, MW Knox 186 has a good practical question. Did I ever recruit anyone without identifying myself as a CIA employee? >> That is a good question. >> The answer is yes. Um, there was somebody I was working on who I knew had an irrational fear of the CIA. And so I said that I represented a consortium of

[34:46] businessmen and they were interested in this very specific information and they were willing to pay handsomely for it. So I had headquarters draw up what looked like a really official legal contract and I offered the guy the contract. It was a consulting contract. And so he signed it and uh I gave him five grand a month in cash in hotel rooms and he gave me the the classified information and uh everybody lived happily ever after.

[35:19] >> That's a funny That is a funny story. Um if you so thanks for the additional dollar. What do you know uh John I assume about the story of the Falcon and the Snowman? Oh yeah, >> movie. I The Sean Penn movie. I don't know. >> Oh, The Falcon and the Snowman. The >> movie. >> Oh, it was a great movie. It was a great book. Uh, but this is something that from the day that you're hired at the CIA, they they drill into you. So, every new CIA employee knows the story of the Falcon and the snowman. So, uh, two best

[35:49] friends, two high school best friends who grad graduated from, uh, from high school. One went on to go to college. One went on to be a drug addict and a drug dealer. And the one that went to college uh got a job with a with a CIA contractor. And so he had access, of course, to classified information. the drug addict friend ended up going down to Mexico to Mexico City and approaching the Soviet embassy

[36:21] and saying, "Hey, I've got a buddy who um who works uh for the CIA and uh if you give me money, I'll get the uh the information that you want from my friend." And then he used that money to buy more drugs. And it was all fine and good until they got caught. And uh one cooperated or or both cooperated. Actually, I'm going to Google it now because I can't remember if it was one or both that cooperated, but uh they both ended up with long

[36:53] prison sentences. I'm gonna look it up right now. >> While you're hearing that Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah, it it was uh Christopher Boyce who was played by Timothy Hutton. >> Mhm. >> Uh his dad got him a job at the CIA and uh >> disgusting. >> Yeah. His his friend finally admitted, "Hey, I've been all that all the questions that I ask you, I uh I've been uh telling the Soviet embassy in Mexico

[37:24] City." He suggested that they run off to Costa Rica where he had secretly bought a house. instead. Um, Boyce, um, Boyce turned himself in. >> Yeah. The reason they called him the falcon and the snowman is the Timothy Hutton character raised falcons. >> And, um, the snowman was self-explanatory. >> A cokehead. Yeah. [laughter] >> Right. Uh, Sean Pat 6882. Is the fear of the CIA ever irrational? I'd say no. >> No. >> Fear of government is never rational.

[37:55] Um, I love this question. Roie Bang Bang, what do we think about this new commercial that the Democrats put out telling American soldiers that they don't have to follow unlawful orders? >> I saw this last >> dangerous if I say so myself, he says or she says, >> you know, the Democrats have this obsession that Donald Trump is going to, you know, try to seize power and refuse to leave the White House at the end of his term. Um, and Trump loves trolling them on [clears throat] issues like this. Yeah. >> So, the Democrats last week,

[38:26] >> the Democrats have some cause to be concerned about [laughter] that. In fairness, >> maybe just a little. Um, I think Trump's just enjoying himself watching the the Democrats, you know, lose their minds over this. So several dem more than several half a dozen Democratic leaders last week came out with this nicely produced advertisement urging members of the military to defy illegal orders unlawful orders that you know if Trump says he's not leaving he's

[38:58] going to declare himself dictator whatever >> that >> I'm wondering what that all I took that also as as having to do with uh you know the the the ICE actions on the streets and the National Guard uh being sent to various American cities like they're in Charlotte. >> Oh, that would be more immediate. I didn't see it that way. That would be a little bit scarier. >> I mean, so it's it's so like impossible, right? like like I'm I've never understood how members of the military reconcile this innate contradiction

[39:28] which you and I have talked about before >> between being told that you have to follow orders unquestioningly from your commanding officer [clears throat] and at the same time you shouldn't and in fact you're legally prohibited from following unlawful orders. Those two directives seem to me like they're going to come into conflict and it's impossible for a service person to to know what to do in a in a mai type situation. Um you know I mean you know

[40:01] what you know what's morally right. >> Yeah. >> But but I mean what are you really truly I feel like it's an impossible situation. >> I wouldn't want to be in a situation like this. It's like it's like at the very end of his first term when Trump walked out into that demonstration uh in front of St. John's um uh church across the street from the White House and asked the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, "Well, why don't you just shoot them?" >> And he's like, "Serious? I I have to explain to you why we can't just go out

[40:32] and shoot unarmed civilians in the streets in front of the White House." >> Insane. Uh so I mean, I don't know. Is it dangerous? I mean, is it dangerous to say to to have a political party say you don't ha, you know, hey, you don't have to necessarily follow the orders that you get when you're [clears throat] in the armed services. >> I mean, I mean, it's a statement of fact. You don't necessarily, >> right? It could be dangerous. Yes. And I think the Democrats are jumping the gun

[41:02] on this. >> I really do. I mean, it does seem like probably um you know, I wish that they frankly I wish that they'd had less balls here and more balls in the showdown over the shutdown because you know that one where they didn't want to they were afraid of [ __ ] the airline lobby. That's what this was about. Let me read an ad, John. Looking for smarter ways to browse and enjoy your favorite content without ads? Get the Perplexity Pro bundle with Rumble Premium for just $19.99 a month while you sign up when

[41:32] you sign up before December 31st. Normally, it's a $29.99 value. With Rumble Premium, you'll get an ad-free viewing experience across all your devices, and access to exclusive premium content, no interruptions, just the videos and streams you love anytime, anywhere. Plus, Perplex Perplexity Pro boosts your productivity with unlimited research, unlimited uploads, exclusive member perks, and access to the latest and most advanced AI models for faster, smarter answers every day. Save over 30% on this powerful bundle. Head to

[42:03] rumble.com/premium before December 31st to sign up and unlock your premium experience. And um thank you. By the way, we are on the front page of of of Rumble right now, even as we speak. So, >> hey, great. >> That's that's fun and exciting. Um and thank you very much for the $10 donation from V Village Idiot TV. Much appreciated. >> That's wonderful. Thank you. Um, okay. So, let's uh shall we talk about um we have good timing here today.

[42:34] Uh sometimes we run out of time, but it seem Okay. So, Donald Trump and uh Zoron Mdani, the mayor elect of New York City, who takes office in about six weeks, um are going to meet at the White House in the Oval Office tomorrow. >> Ted, I thought you were joking when you sent this to me. I have to [laughter] look it up. >> No, it's true. Apparently, this is a tradition for the new mayor of New York City. Um, from what we've heard, Mumdani has a um requested the meeting T.

[43:04] Mumdani. Um, Trump agreed. All right. So, I have many questions. All right. So, there's the meta question of what does it say? I mean, how many times do the American people have to sit through an election where two side the two adversaries repeatedly say how, you know, the other, you know, like John Kiryaku is the devil himself. He's evil. He hangs out with Satan. He's going to destroy America. And then Ted R is scum. He's a horrible communist. He's going

[43:37] to, you know, send everyone to goologs. And then it's like the election's over. It's like maybe John's not so bad. Ted's okay. And then like, oh, I love you. Let's work together for the I mean, I know that's like the tradition. And I it works. It worked historically, but I just feel like in a time of social media and everything. It's hard going forward to take anything that any politician ever says seriously because you know that they're likely going to end up in this place, right? like like the guy I

[44:09] can't pronounce his name. Uh the the the Grastidis dude. >> Oh, John Katy. >> HE'S LIKE, "OH, I want the best now for for Mandani. I'm not going anywhere." St. Petersburg. Yeah. He's going to move to St. Petersburg because he can never live in a socialist city. And now he's like, "Ah, Manny's not so bad." >> Right. I mean, so like, okay, so first of all, is it going to be maybe maybe not a lovein, but will it be a like in tomorrow and uh or will it be sort of like, you know, Vance Vance versus

[50:51] >> Native Americans who happen to have brown skin. >> Yeah. >> Are are being arrested and detained in one case deported to Mexico. >> Yeah. So that's I mean and also there's and also there's prosecutorial discretion, right? Like obviously a cop should pull, you know, if the speed limit's 55, the cop should pull over the dude going 95 before he pulls over the guy going 58. And like this is again ICE is not doing that. ICE is going they're not going after like convicted rapists who are illegal immigrants. They're going after sort of anyone and everyone

[51:23] and it seems almost like the lowhanging fruit is people dropping their kids off at school and stuff. I mean it's wrong. Um question for both of us. Do we consume media in your other languages like music, movies, TV, etc.? I absolutely do. Um, I watch French films >> and I listen to French music 100%. >> Listen, I I even have this app on my phone called um called is eronia,

[51:54] Greek radio and television. This this Netflix has like every channel in Greece and you can watch movies and concerts and soap operas and sports events. >> I watch it every single day. And then I >> TV for France for for Greece. >> Yeah. There's a there's a TV station in Patras, Greece's third city on the west coast that has its own app. I watch Patras TV and then and then the church

[52:24] of Greece has its own app, its own TV station. So I just watch uh I I stopped going to church I don't know a year ago. So I just watch church on TV on Sunday mornings. >> I will I will I will want to ask you about the not going to church. But let's uh ask get try to get through some more questions. Rasmataz request for you John. Please recount one of your best Alec Baldwin stories for us when time permits. I haven't heard a single Alec Baldwin story since the Sputnik Assange

[52:54] days and then his film Rust. I have a I have I have a Alec story too, but go ahead. >> Alec Baldwin and I hate each other >> and hate each other to the point where we can't be in the same room together. And uh how did this the story >> we met once a a friend of mine wanted to write a play about my trial or the the the case leading up to trial and he wanted to do it off Broadway and

[53:27] Alec was interested in playing me >> and so we met for lunch one day in New York. >> Amazing. >> And my friend my friend's an Academy Award-winning writer, screenwriter. So, >> John, you're kind of frozen here. >> Book, etc., etc. >> And Oh, shoot. Can you hear me at least? >> Yes. Now, now you're good. Yeah, you

[53:58] froze up for about 30 seconds. >> Okay, thanks. Oh, shoot. So, so he asked me to tell him these stories. I'm telling these stories. 30 minutes into it, Alex says, "I think you're full of shit." Like that. And I said, "Excuse me?" >> Wow. >> And he says, "I think you're full of [ __ ] I think you're just making all this [ __ ] up." And I said, "I've been called a lot of things in my life, but liar is not one of them." He goes, "Fuck you." I said, "Fuck you, Baldwin." And I

[54:29] I was so angry, I got up and I walked out of the restaurant. And my friend is like, "Guys, please, no, please. please. So, I was so mad. I walked all the way back to Penn Station. I got on the train and I came home. So, about 6 months later, I had this idea for a TV series. I had written a pilot. And this I do this as a hobby. I've I've written seven of them in the last 14 years, and I've actually sold all seven. One made it to pilot. So, we we made this pitch at at

[55:01] Fox, and Fox is like, "Nah, we're not really interested. It's it's moderately, you know, interesting, but it's not for us. So, our next pitch meeting was at AMC. >> And before we went in, my buddy said, you know, we can guarantee a sale to MSC to AMC if we can attach an A-list star. >> And I said, oh, please don't. I said, please. [laughter] He says, he is he he's an Academy Award winner. He's an Emmy award winner. So, we called him. We went to Soho House. They have breakout

[55:31] rooms there. We called him and um my friend said, "Uh, Alec, I'm I'm here with Kiryaku." And um and Baldwin says, "What's that [ __ ] want?" And I said, "Yeah, nice to talk to you, too, Alec." And then uh he said, "Well, John's got an idea for a show." And I told him the idea for the show and he says, "Actually, that is a pretty good idea. Go ahead and attach me." So, we attached him. We sold it to AMC the very next day

[56:01] and um six weeks later I called my attorney and I said, "I haven't heard anything from AMC's business affairs office. I have no idea if my deal's been negotiated." He said, "You know, I forgot all about that. Let me call over there." He calls over to AMC and AMC says, "Oh, we dropped that show." And my attorney says, "Why?" Cuz Alec Baldwin quit to take a deal with HBO. So I called him back and I said, "Fuck you, Baldwin. Don't ever call me again." and I hung up. That was the last time we spoke. >> Yeah. I don't think it doesn't It sounds

[56:32] like this relationship, this friendship might be beyond redemption, John. Just saying. >> Yeah. No. And then and then when he when he got arrested for shooting that uh assistant director or whatever she was on the on the movie Rust, my buddy called and said, "Hey, you know, it looks like Alec may be going to prison. You might want to give him a ring and just try to" And I said, "Fuck him. I hope he rots in prison." OMG. Uh, thanks for the five bucks, an Angela Fala la. Thank you. Much appreciated. Quick last question. Hype

[57:04] show. Will Mundani really imprison BB if he comes to New York or is that just talk? Oh, I think it's I think it's real. >> I think it's real >> and and it should be honestly. >> Yes. >> Yes, indeed. >> Everyone, thanks so much for joining us. This is the Deep Program Show with me, Ted Roll and John Kuryaku. Uh, we are here Monday through Friday at 9:00 a.m. Eastern time, which means we will be back tomorrow, December 1st. Friday at 9:00 a.m. We will see you then. Please stay tuned for the TMI show with me and

[57:36] Manila Chan coming right up after this. Uh, much appreciate you. And, uh, oh, also DMZ America podcast. Scott Sanders and I will be interviewing editorial cartoonist Steve Kelly uh, who's a conservative. That's at 11:00 a.m. Eastern time this morning. Bye, John. See you tomorrow. Bye-bye everybody. [music]
