Title: Piers Morgan Uncensored
Show: Piers Morgan Uncensored
Date: 2025-12-22
URL: https://youtu.be/178ec0ZUJPQ
Duration: 35:00

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[00:01] You said fentanyl at the beginning and you are right. A lot of that product is not coming from Venezuela. It's coming from Mexico. It's coming from China specifically. It's a very broad sword this narco-terrorism designation. I think that it's being used to conduct some regime change. Right. So, that's the key point here. I think there's something global hope happening here and this is just one part of the chessboard. Perhaps this is a way to keep the Chinese out of the Caribbean, to keep the Chinese out of Venezuela. You can say you're doing it in order to stop the

[00:32] flow of drugs even if that's not really the case. What will the CIA be doing right now in Venezuela? To affect a coup, if if you want it to be quick, everything that's important is going to take place in the capital. You have to control the radio and television stations. You have to surround the presidential palace and you have to control the major intersections in the city. Once that happens, all the other dominoes begin to fall. [Music] The White House is very clear about why it's ramping up pressure on Venezuela.

[01:03] Drugs, Venezuelan cartels are shipping fentanyl into the United States, they say, with the full complicity of President Maduro. The socialist leader is thereby contributing to a crisis which has killed hundreds of thousands of Americans, justifying a state of war readiness and a series of deadly air strikes on small Venezuelan boats. But not everybody's convinced the majority of all fentanyl in the US is made using Chinese chemicals by cartels in Mexico from where almost all of it is imported. Well, Ed Calderon is a combat instructor, security consultant and a

[01:33] cartels expert and he joins me now. Ed, thank you very much indeed for joining me. Thank you. What do you make of this? I mean, Donald Trump is accusing Nicolas Maduro, the President of Venezuela, of conducting a narco war, of running a narco-terrorist cartel. You're a cartel expert, is he right? The connections between his family and the movement of cocaine into the United States has long known. 2015 saw two of his nephews basically arrested for some

[02:04] of these issues. The military in Venezuela has been engaging in these activities for years now. It is something that is happening. Cocaine though. You said fentanyl at the beginning and you are right. A lot of that product is not coming from Venezuela. It's coming from Mexico. It's coming from overseas, China specifically. It's a very broad sword this narco-terrorism designation. I think that it's being used in this case to conduct some

[02:36] regime change. Right. So, that's the key point here is that many people think it's a cover for regime change aspirations by the US government under Donald Trump. And many people speculate it's because Venezuela has a lot of oil and that you have a socialist leader who they think is there by default. The last election, he should have left but he's refused to go and so on. Um And there's also a kind of like an anomaly here where if you were choosing one of the countries in that region as a place to target for imports

[03:09] of cocaine or illegal drugs generally, then you would probably choose Colombia not Venezuela. So, why why Venezuela? 10% of cocaine This is These are government US government numbers back from 2009. 10% of cocaine coming into the United States was coming from Venezuela. The numbers are now completely impossible to know because of some of the things that are happening on the seaside. The military has long since been known

[03:39] for their association with certain cartels, specifically the Sinaloa cartel when it was existing back in the day. Chapo Guzman was arrested speaking to members of the military trying to figure out how to get a close connection. Yes, Colombia should be on that list as well and I think it might be on that list. I think many countries in South America and North America, that being Mexico, are probably on that list. They are attempting to do something in Venezuela that they might want to replicate other parts of the another

[04:10] part of the continent, I think. Um It's It's It's hard to It's hard to It's hard to blame the United States as far as how it views the the the situation in Venezuela. I mean, I'm currently in Sweden and I've spoken with some people who are refugees of Venezuela here and they've explained to me how the current government has basically stolen their lands, put in people that they know and family members that they know in in positions of power in that region and basically took everything for themselves. Uh They're looking for every single way

[04:41] every single way of making money in that region and the military is very much involved in in in some of these activities. So, it's it's it's a it's a real thing. Now, how big of a threat is versus other parts of the other parts of the continent and and prioritize prioritize That's that's where I I know people are questioning resources specifically in that region. But the the Venezuelan government itself has single-handedly destroyed most of its ability to process a lot of the fuel that it extracts from the ground. So,

[05:14] here we are. Right. So, you've got a sort of chaotic regime, probably illegitimate now. Um and acting with impunity. Um and that may be a collection of explanations for why the US is considering regime change. Of course, Donald Trump has always been very anti-regime change and spoken out against regime change and thinking America should be America first and shouldn't be interviewing intervening in foreign countries. So, what do you think is going on here with

[05:44] his change of mind if that's what happens? I mean, Venezuela has very clear ties to the United States' enemies abroad. I mean, Russia and China. Coincidental I mean, and we have to mention that they are nowhere to be seen realistically as far as coming to their aid. I think there's something global hope happening here and this is just one part of the chessboard that the United States is playing. This It's unsustainable. Whatever is

[06:14] going on there as far as the governments and and just I mean, I get to speak to a lot of refugees and people. I do a lot of charity work and I to speak to specifically to the immigrant situation. There is something happening there that is driving humanity away from that country that is undeniable. Now, is that a just cause to blow up a drug boats in in the ocean without really knowing exactly what's going on there? And and the people that are on those

[06:45] boats, this is beyond my wheelhouse. Um but people are people there are expecting an attack any day now and people that are not there who are living abroad are fueled with the possibility that the regime is going away. And it's hard to It's hard to ignore those voices as well. There has been a mass exodus of people from Venezuela, hasn't there? Yes. We saw the migrant caravans being

[07:16] conformed by many many Venezuelans going through Mexico. Some of these encampments were full of them. Um We We have We have this narrative in some in some places where some of these where all of these migrants are criminal, which is not the case. Again, I've I've been speaking to some in Switzerland who are, you know, highly educated people. People that come from that come came from wealthy families that were pretty much set in in Venezuela that were

[07:46] stripped of land, stripped of property, stripped of everything they they they know they they owned and and basically left to the wind. This this broad stroke that sometimes it gets labeled on some of these migrants as all being criminal, as all being part of a part of these international transnational gangs is is is false. But yes, the mass the mass humanity that has been moving out of the country and crossing the border specifically under the time of the Biden administration

[08:16] where that border was basically wide open, a lot of those were Venezuelan. A lot of a lot of the a lot of the There is a lot There's this The thing gets told a lot by the president right now in the United States about prisons being emptied. That was actually That actually did happen and prisons were emptied and Mexico specifically right now and I have friends who are working at a federal level right now there are dealing with fentanyl threats in Mexico City, for

[08:49] example, where they're setting up They're clearing out cartels. They're local Mexican cartels with their their ongoing efforts against the cartels in Mexico. And now you're seeing fentanyl the fentanyl people basically setting up shop in Mexico. So, yes, it is it is a it is a real threat that is happening not only in not only throughout Latin America, but in Mexico and yes, the United States as well. Speaking to some of my counterparts who are active there that they've seen this threat and it is a real one.

[09:19] But it's not all of them. Again, this broad stroke that this broad brush that gets painted against all of them as criminals or as some sort of undesirable people is is just It's just not the case. What is the general view amongst the Venezuelans you've talked to about the likelihood that these boats that are being targeted are being gang operated, they are criminals and they are trying to bring in large amounts of drugs into the United States and therefore are legitimate targets?

[09:50] It's It's It's It's probably I mean, this is a transport job. These drug boats are drug boats. There's no denying that they are moving uh quantities of drugs through the ocean. Now, are they going to make it all the way to Florida uh with the fuel they have on those boats? Probably not. Uh they're transporting from one point to another. Most of the trafficking has moved to the ground. That's where the the the the real threat as far as drug trafficking happens. Everything's Everything most of it is now moving through the ground. You

[10:20] have on the Pacific side of the the Navy, the US Navy, and then the and and on the the Caribbean side, it's it's full of the it's it's full of government ships. Uh the sentiment is uh mixed. Um you have to realize that a lot of these people that are probably on those boats are poor, marginalized people. I don't think they're probably any They're I don't think they're any sort of military officials on those boats. They're kids. They're they're minors maybe on some of these boats. Uh and, you know, if you're a human

[10:52] being and you have any sort of sentiment towards towards humanity, seeing seeing them get blown up in the middle of the ocean and then survivors getting uh blown up again is going to be something that's going to hit you in a certain way. Um But will it will it act though uh as a deterrent, which is obviously what the Trump administration is saying? Is it they they believe if they keep doing this the number of boats bringing these drugs over, which as you say it's it's you're you're certain they are drug boats, that if they want to stop the drugs coming, this will be a very

[11:24] effective deterrent. It is a very effective deterrent. Fear is there, I have to say. It is a very effective deterrent. The trafficking side of things on both sides of the ocean We don't hear a lot about some of the boats that have been that that that have been um taken out on the coasts of coasts of Mexico, but there have been a few as well. And um speaking to people that are in law enforcement still currently active on both sides of the border, both in Mexico and the United States, they have seen

[11:54] some sort of stoppage at least a straw of traffic on the on the ocean. So, it is working on that end. But, we also have to realize that uh drug prices and the availability of some of these substances hasn't really diminished or moved in any significant way. So, yes, there is an effect on the ocean and the way things are being trafficked and fear is on there Fear is on Fear is in the

[12:26] water, basically. But, the effects of of of these policies haven't been felt in the cities and it on the streets in in the United States. Um So, that's I I think that's where that's where at least people aligned of things were analyzing this closely haven't really seen that needle move. So, then is this working? will be the question. Right, because these drug gangs they're very sophisticated, they're very well resourced, and presumably if they lose a

[12:57] particular way of transporting their drugs, they'll find another way. That's it. Yeah, that's it. Here's Colombia is another source. Mexico is another source. So, there there's a lot of sources. Right now, this very broad sword that is this this this terrorist designation is being utilized in Venezuela for many reasons. And I think um I think we all know that there there are many more reasons beyond that of this being a specific counter I mean also,

[13:29] there's a kind of There's a kind of obvious double standards that's just emerged this week where you've got President Trump at a cabinet meeting yesterday saying anyone who brings drugs into the US will die. Let's watch the clip. Mr. President, if you are declaring war against these cartels and Congress is likely to um approve of that process, why not just ask for a declaration of war? Well, I don't think we're going to necessarily ask for a declaration of

[13:59] war. I think we're just going to kill people that are bringing drugs into our country. Okay? We're going to kill them, you know? They're going to be like dead. Okay? Now, they're strong words, but then he has literally just pardoned and released the former president of Honduras, Juan Orlando Hernández, who in 2024, just last year, was found guilty of conspiring to import cocaine to the United States and sentenced to 45 years in prison. There'll be many people looking at that going, "Hang on.

[14:29] How does that work?" It's um from what I can tell and from what I've seen as far as that release, uh he's basically saying that it it was a political motivated arrest and that he was framed for for those crimes by the past administration. The veracity of that is uh It's it's beyond me if if that is a true statement or not. Um His threats of death, his threats his threats of killing people that are going

[15:00] to cross drugs into into into United States is something that I have to tell you, Piers, it resonates a lot with people that have been the victims of these substances and in these criminal organizations on many parts in many parts of the continent. Um myself included. Um These criminal organizations have taken over vast amounts of territory, become governors and government in in in in some of the places they control, and the effects of this I mean, I grew up on the streets of Tijuana.

[15:31] And I've went from there to going to places like Portland and seeing some of the effects of some of these substances and how it consumes people. Not even that. I mean, I have friends who have kids 17, 16 who just took some drugs at a party um and didn't wake up. I understand some of the anger and some of the feelings around some of these substances and some of the people that voted and got the president to the White House and why this is such uh

[16:03] a motivating topic uh for for for the populace. Um Now, this designation and how it's being utilized and the scope of it, I think is what people are now going to backing up a bit and trying to see if it's actually feasible or not to be utilizing this designation to continue on with these efforts. I have a feeling that this is going to continue on and I think whatever happens in Venezuela is going to be a template for further actions of in other parts of

[16:34] the continent. Do you think it is more likely than not that the US will invade Venezuela? I think I think it's I think I think the pressure right now is to make Maduro reach a deal and extract himself from Venezuela. I'm expecting a plane flying out of Venezuela landing in Russia at any time uh Syria style any day now. Hopefully, that is the the where we're headed. Um

[17:04] Speaking to people that know more about military invasions than I do, Venezuela is a very it's going to be a very difficult thing to to hold and to and to control if the regime falls and turns into a guerrilla force. We must we we must understand that Venezuela the Venezuelan military is one thing, but also there's a bunch of guerrilla forces in in in and around Venezuela that are aligned with the regime that will basically take our take up arms against whoever

[17:35] stays in power. And we're going to look at it We're going to be looking at another Afghanistan or another or another Iraq as far as not only the battle not being concluded when the invasion concludes, but when the death toll rises from trying to hold that space. And that's not even taken into account the the mass amount of humanity that is already struggling with things like potable water or food in in some of these regions by the regimes' complete

[18:06] mishandling of everything when it comes to government. So, now add onto that the the war aspect, and I think we're in for some pretty horrible humanitarian crisis. Hopefully, Maduro and his uh family jump on a plane with a bunch of gold bricks like like a lot of people that have followed kind of his suit and uh fly to Russia or China, whoever takes them. Yeah.

[18:36] Let's hope that he sees sense. It could get very messy. Uh A cool one. Thank you very much indeed for joining me. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Today's show is sponsored by Oxford Natural, makers of the Optimum Day and Optimum Night all-natural supplements. Thousands of Brits and Americans are already taking them with incredible results. Optimum Day boosts your energy and supports weight loss throughout the day. Optimum Night helps you relax and get deep, refreshing sleep. They have countless success stories, including from some very familiar faces. England

[25:27] people who want to affect their own regime change, actually, it can be far quicker, far more effective, and far less messy. Look, we have to we have to wait and see what happens in Syria, but certainly, so far, it'd be hard to argue that the new regime is worse than the Assad regime. And America didn't have to do very much, right? And in fact, Putin backed exactly right. >> there seems to me there's an obvious template there for organic regime change always being a better option than

[25:58] enforced regime change, particularly from the US, who are often get themselves corralled into really messy situation for long periods of time. Oh, I think you've hit the nail on the head. And Syria ought to be the template for how we move forward on these. Listen, there's there's no problem from a policy perspective to supply aid, for example, whether it's economic aid or or military aid to the Kurds or to, you know, free Syrian fighters.

[26:31] Oddly enough, we had the CIA most recently in Syria. We had the CIA supplying Al-Qaeda and the Pentagon supplying a completely different group that was at war with Al-Qaeda. So, we almost came out on top in spite of ourselves there, but but I think you're right. I think Syria is something that should be studied in the halls of international intelligence services and, you know, implemented with more of a hands-off approach. Going into a country and just occupying it and and thinking that you're going to succeed just

[27:01] because we're the good guys is not a workable plan. What will the CIA be doing right now in Venezuela? We know that there's no great surprise, but given all the backdrop of a potential invasion, or maybe it's a double bluff by Trump, and he's just trying to get Maduro to to leave the country, which could well be what he's trying to do. Um but what would the CIA be doing? Yeah, that's that's a good observation, too. This could be a bluff. But let's assume for the for the sake of this question that it's not a bluff. The CIA

[27:32] would be doing everything from trying to to recruit or to influence the owners of the Venezuelan media to place anti-Maduro articles or or opinion pieces or pro-American articles or opinion pieces, to arming factions that may be available to them in Caracas. Listen, to to affect a coup, if if you want it to be quick, and and it's a place like Venezuela where everything that's important is going to take place

[28:03] in the capital, you have to control the radio and television stations, you have to surround the presidential palace, and you have to control the major intersections in the city. Once that happens, all the other dominoes begin to fall. So, it would be like overthrowing the Greek government in 1967. You don't have to attack and invade and occupy the entire country. You just need the center of the city along with the presidential palace and the parliament. I think that's the plan in this case. >> interestingly, as we saw in Ukraine, for

[28:35] example, clearly, the Russians thought they could steam into Kyiv, overthrow Zelenskyy, and this would all be over quite quickly. And here we are, years later, and it didn't happen. Often, the best-laid plans look straightforward on paper. You make assumptions, but cold, hard reality can kick in and take you to places you never imagined. That's right. Look at Afghanistan. After years and years, Hamid Karzai was really little more than the mayor of Kabul, and

[29:06] even then, he didn't control all of Kabul. 20 years of American occupation, more than a trillion dollars spent, and and still we're we're facing we're facing enemies as soon as we leave the city limits. It's not a way to run a war. Maduro, many people think he's there illegitimately now, that following the last election, he lost it, and he's just refused to go. What is the reality about that? You know, I consider myself to be a person who approaches these issues from

[29:38] the, you know, slightly left of center, but I've never believed that Maduro was legitimate. Uh I I've always believed that he was he was pumping up these numbers, stealing these elections. Not to say that the right is is the savior of the country. We don't frankly know what the Venezuelan right is going to look like once it begins to run things. But but I've always believed that that Maduro had serious legitimacy problems.

[30:08] So, what's your hunch about what he may do? We've seen enough of him now for a few years to get a kind of measure of the man. Is he the kind you think who when confronted with the possibility of an invasion and perhaps his death that he will just pull a an Assad and get on a plane? I think that's the likelihood. Now, the CIA just three or four weeks ago, according to Maduro's private pilot, the CIA tried to recruit the pilot with the idea that were Maduro to run, he would

[30:40] get on the plane, say "Take me to Havana." Instead, the pilot takes him to Key West, and the FBI is there to arrest him and charge him with international narcotics trafficking. So, I think that Maduro probably has laid plans to leave if he needs to leave quickly. If he does need to leave quickly, I think he'll probably end up in Havana, possibly in Moscow. But uh but yeah, I think that's probably that's probably the way it would play out. Now, I think that we would get a very

[31:11] I think we would get a better idea of what the plans are if we were to watch those military leaders closest to him. If we begin to see fissures among the military leadership in Venezuela, then it it won't be long for Maduro after that. And how easy would it be for the CIA to arrange his death? You know, I think that's a lot of harder than most people uh would expect. It's not It's not the '60s or the early '70s

[31:41] anymore where the CIA is, you know, a completely renegade organization and it just goes around overthrowing governments and assassinating world leaders. Now, there actually is at least some congressional oversight. There's a a bureaucratic process by which they would have to go through, and it's quite difficult because it's not just the CIA coming up with an idea and then going to the president to approve the idea. There are layers and layers of attorneys in the in the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel and the National Security uh Council's Office of Legal

[32:12] Affairs in the CIA's General Counsel's Office. And so, you have in this army this army of attorneys that has to approve it before it even gets to the president for his signature. Um It would be easier. It would be more legal to put so much pressure on Maduro that he opts to just get up and run than it would be to try to to kill him. And and just in the last year or so, Pierce, there have been um what? A dozen

[32:42] a dozen and a half uh mercenaries that have sort of washed up on shore and have said, "Hey, we're here to overthrow Maduro." only to be then arrested and traded back to the United States for Venezuelan prisoners. It's kind of silly. Finally, the these strikes on the boats in the Caribbean Sea. In your estimation, are these legal and justified or not? No. I'm not seeing any any even efforts at legality here. Uh by all accounts,

[33:15] the intelligence is just simply not there to show that these are uh drug boats or if they are drug boats that the drugs are bound for the United States. Uh there was a a a foot in a boot that washed up on shore in Trinidad and Tobago last week, and it was identified as the foot and boot of a Trinidadian fisherman. Now, the family wants answers. So, you know, I was in the CIA long enough that I came to learn

[33:46] when a CIA officer or a White House official or a Pentagon, you know, general says, "Take my word for it. I've seen the intelligence." Don't take his word for it. I want to play this before we finish a clip from Pete Hegseth. He's a secretary of state, state obviously for the war department as it's now renamed. Let's take a look. So, you didn't see any survivors, to be clear, after that first shot. I did not personally see survivors, but I stand cuz the thing was on fire. It

[34:18] was exploded in fire and smoke. You can't see anything. You got digital This is called the fog of war. This is what you in the press don't understand. You sit in your air-conditioned offices or up on Capitol Hill and you nitpick and you plant fake stories in the Washington Post about kill everybody phrases on anonymous sources not based in anything. Not based in any truth at all. And then you want to throw out really irresponsible terms about American heroes, about the judgment that they made. I wrote a whole I wrote a whole book on this topic because of what politicians and the

[34:49] press does to war fighters. The the fog of war. I mean, look, there is a fog of war, of course there is. But did you find that convincing? Uh no. There there is no war. This was just a unilateral American decision to start bombing these boats. So, fog of war, no. And international law is actually very clear here. If there are survivors who are not able to engage in combat, you can't kill them. Why? It's It's really quite simple. Yeah, I agree.

[35:19] Uh John Kiriakou, thank you very much indeed for rejoining me on Uncensored. Thank you. Good to see you again. Thank you. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, then ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate, and entertain, and we'll do it all for free. Independent Uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.

[35:51] [Music]
