Title: \"They DESTROYED Epstein Files\"
Show: Useful Idiots
Date: 2025-07-11
URL: https://youtu.be/wVQjgd1Tqz4
Duration: 84:00

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[00:05] Hello and welcome to Useful Idiots. I'm Katie Halper. >> I'm Aaron Mate. Thanks so much for being here. Our website, as always, is usefulodcast.com. Today we have a double header for you. Uh yet again, we're going to be covering of course uh the non-event that was the Epstein Files. the Trump administration claiming after basically so many months and years of hyping up the Epstein files this week saying actually nothing to see here. Well, former CIA officer John

[00:35] Keryaku will be here to give uh his take on what's going on. >> It's always fascinating talking to John. and he has amazing stories and also uh it should be known people may be interested in knowing that uh John is the only person to spend any time in prison over the uh CIA's torture program. Uh this is a program in which he did not participate but he blew the whistle on it. So of course uh in the United States you don't ever get in trouble for committing crimes, you get in trouble for exposing them. Well, speaking of exposing crimes, in the

[01:06] second half of the show, we'll also hear from Marta Havrisko. Uh she is a returning guest. She is a visiting assistant professor at Clark University and she's Ukrainian and she's very critical of the Ukrainian government, also very critical of the Russian government. Um, but what she has to say about Ukraine contradicts a lot of the narratives we get here in the West uh that is used to sustain the proxy war there, which a lot of people have kind of forgotten about because it's been going on for so long and there's so many

[01:37] other horrible crises in the world, namely the genocide in Gaza. But Ukraine's still happening and as we'll hear in today's interview with Marta, things are very bleak. >> What else is bleak is uh the news here, the news there. And I guess that's a great transition to uh start the four basic food groups. Uh, Democrats suck. Republicans suck. Isn't that weird? Isn't that terrible? What bleak news do we have from Democrats suck? >> Well, the main source of bleakness right now for Democrats is this light onto New York City, onto the big apple, uh, Zoran Mani, his successful campaign in the

[02:09] Democratic uh, primary for mayor and how are corporate Democrats grappling with the fact that this charismatic, young challenger is set to become the next mayor of New York City on the Democratic ticket? Well, they're handling this by saying he's not welcome inside their party. As former Biden challenger Dean Phillips just told CNN, >> "Is there room for you and Mandani in the Democratic party?" >> You know, I think it's a it's a fine question. I think it's one that many

[02:40] Republicans have been asking about whether there's room for traditional conservatives in a party now led by mega Republicans like Donald Trump. Uh the answer ultimately, I think, is no. You know, we do share many of the same values. In fact, >> great. Can you can you leave the party, Dean? Dean Phillips, can we get that in writing? That would be great. Please retire right now. >> Most Americans share a lot of the same values. But as a political party, yes, you want diversity. You want some differences of opinion, perspective, life story, politics, and experience.

[03:10] But when you have socialists, when you have socialists in the Democratic party, uh I don't know how anybody could argue that that would be beneficial for the party or for the country. There in lies the great challenge. Same thing on the right, Omar. Uh is MAGA the future of the Republican party? If it is, there is going to be a new grand successful third party in America because the overwhelming majority of Americans want neither far-left or far-right politics. They want decency. They want common

[03:40] sense, competency, and cooperation. And no party right now is elevating candidates who represent those ideals. >> Decency, competence, and cooperation, and common sense. All right. Decency, cooperation, common sense. Cooperation, common sense, competency. I think he's maybe starting his own third party, the the triple C party. >> The DEC. Yes. Decency, competency, >> cooperation, and what was the last one? It already felt it already escaped me.

[04:10] That's how uh meaningful it is. >> He's basically saying that everybody wants a centrist corporate Democrat. That's what he's basically saying. That's his that he's still clinging to. And it's not a question of like if the Republican party is now MAGA. They are like MAGA. And that's the base of the party now. So it's it's not as if there's like a bunch of Republicans dying to leave. there's like a small sliver of like I don't know uh I guess you want to call like old school Republicans who don't like Donald Trump but like >> right >> Republicans are MAGA and look he says we want diversity of opinion to the

[04:42] Democratic party and diversity of background but you can't have a socialist but in Zora Mandani's case like what does that mean to be a socialist basically he he supports universal healthcare universal prek he wants to have free buses for people he wants to have government subsidized grocery stores so that in some communities where there are no healthy food options or or barely any food options at all that you have ways to serve people so that people can be fed. >> Um these aren't radical policies actually that he is pursuing. And of course he also wants a rent freeze which

[05:13] is also not socialist. It's just kind of trying to basically make the city affordable for working people. >> Right. I wonder what Dean Phillips thinks of like FDR if he thought he was a big scary socialist who should have been banned from the Democratic party. Although I do think they're genuinely alarmed by Zoramani's progressive policies. I think another issue is the fact that he sees Palestinians as equal human beings, right? >> And the Democrats have played this game where that's just simply not allowed, at least in the leadership of the party. If you want to run for president, if you want to be a Senate or House leader, you

[05:43] have to bow down to Israel. And now you have the potential next mayor of New York City not playing that game. And that also to them is not welcome, >> right? And I think they're afraid of saying that, right? Because the irony is that these Zionists are really messed up because I think that they helped Zoron Mam Donnie because they kind of tried to make this a referendum on Israel and I think a lot of people were disgusted by it because it just seems so irrelevant and so forced. I mean it's you do do certain things as the mayor of New York related to um foreign policy. um there's

[06:16] some symbolic things. Um they're like, you know, agreements with a with foreign governments and stuff, but I think they were so over the top that it backfired. And so now I think that the Democrats realize if they try to vilify Zoron over Palestine, they're just going to make him all the more popular probably. So, as Dean Phillips is basically saying that Zoraman is not welcome inside his party, uh Joe Scarro of MSNBC asks a uh a very good question like why is it that corporate Democrats like Dean Phillips can't reach anybody whereas

[06:48] Zoran Mani can? Now, this is Joe Scarbor. And why is it that in the Democratic party the three most compelling figures uh the the Maril candidate uh Bernie Sanders and AOC uh the three most compelling figures since the election have been uh far left of let's say the mainstream of of a lot of Americans. Um, why why why can't moderate Democrats why can't

[07:18] conservative moderate Democrats like you uh make that same compelling message? >> Geez, I don't know, Joe. Maybe because they have no message. Yeah. >> And people are tired of it and they have nothing to offer anyone anymore except like, I don't know, worshiping Israel and not being as ghoulish on some issues as Republicans. For example, corporate Democrats are to their credit not supporting Medicaid cuts, which which is great, but people want more than that. And in Zora Mandani and Bernie Sanders and AOC, you have people who champion

[07:49] workers and who actually have like concrete policies that they're willing to fight for. Maybe that's why the the so-called moderates can't reach anybody. >> Well, yeah. And it's interesting because I think you know uh it's very revealing that Scarboro presents uh Bernie AOC and Mom Donnie as far from the mainstream because something that Bernie really helped show the world is that these things that are called radical are radical and fringe among the elites but not among people. So there's nothing actually radical um in the idea of

[08:20] having to not die because you don't have enough money. Well, another issue that corporate Democrats face is that people rightly don't see them as having any real convictions and that they'll just say whatever. A good example of this is Chuck Schumer who made a lot of noise when he stood up in Congress and gave a speech basically denouncing Benjamin Netanyahu and saying that he has to go, right? And this was supposed to be some huge shift from Chuck Schumer who's a lifelong defender of the Israeli government. Well, Benjamin Netanyahu just visited Washington. And guess who

[08:52] is posing in a picture with Benjamin Netanyahu? None other than Chuck Schumer. Here he is. There's Chuck Schumer alongside some Republican colleagues with Benjamin Netanyahu. The same guy who Chuck Schumer said, you know, has to go because he's so awful for Israel and you know, this is not who Israel is. Well, Chuck Schumer is someone who's willing to pose with the guy who he called on to resign, >> right? which which is of course on top of the fact that Chuck Schumer is like a you know a complete uh is totally subservient to Israel,

[09:23] >> he also just doesn't have any principles that he's willing to stick to. >> Yeah. But Aaron, look at him. He is boldly boldly looking away. He's not looking at the camera and that is his way of registering his resistance. >> Yeah. Well, uh I he probably is probably thinks exactly that. >> Yeah, >> that's probably what he wants to think. But I'm sorry. Don't pose in the back if you want him to resign. >> Right. True. Very true. Yeah. For Republican suck, we have an adorable kind of suite of developments. Um people may remember that back in May, Trump

[09:55] announced he would be lifting sanctions um from Syria. And uh in his executive order on the matter from the end of June, he also declared he would take Hayat Tar al-Sham, HDS, which is al Qaeda's uh former affiliate in Syria. that was led by Abu Muhammad Al Jalani, now the leader of Syria, um off the designated foreign terrorist list. Now, here is a video of Trump from this week at a dinner he hosted for Netanyahu and the Israeli delegation. And listen to him talking about this decision. you

[10:26] know the at the request of a lot of countries in the surrounding area of the Middle East including BB uh we will uh we took the sanctions off Syria and I met the new leader I was very impressed by him and somebody said well he comes from a very tough background I said well you know I'm not that surprised it's a tough part of the world >> so Aaron I I want to pass it to you as someone who's really studied a lot researched a lot and written a lot about um Syria and HDS uh anything you want to share about this tough guy?

[10:57] >> Well, yeah, he's the founding leader of al-Qaeda and Syria and a former deputy leader of ISIS and they were responsible for not only, you know, attacking US soldiers, which Trump and other neocons want to forget about now, but also sectarian killings in Syria, which are still ongoing under Galani's watch. In fact, Reuters recently did an investigation about how the slaughter of more than a thousand Alawite civilians after regime change in Syria last year uh was linked to forces under Galani's control. But now that Syria uh is

[11:30] basically in the pocket of the US and Israel because they overthrew a government that was in the axis of resistance um and there's talk of Syria and Israel reaching some sort of normalization agreement or some sort of tacid agreement. basically Syria no longer being a part of the block that resists Israel. Now we can say that this guy Al Jalani, the former leader of al-Qaeda in Syria is uh yeah, great guy. He's tough, you know, and let's remove sanctions on his government, >> right? Uh so they're removing sanctions on his government. They're also removing the terrorist designation from uh his

[12:03] organization. But guys, this makes a lot of sense because uh the Trump administration and Marco Rubio in particular have decided to focus on a much worse villain, a much bigger threat, a much bigger terrorist. And they are in fact imposing sanctions on this terrorist. Uh we actually full uh transparency we once interviewed this terrorist and this terrorist is UN Human Rights Council special reperator Francesca Albanz. Uh and let's take a

[12:35] look at this uh announcement from Rubio. Today I'm imposing sanctions on UN Human Rights Council special reperator Franchesca Albanz for her illegitimate and shameful efforts to prompt the International Criminal Court to take action against US and Israeli officials, companies and executives. Uh, Albanese's campaign of political and economic warfare against the United States and Israel will no longer be tolerated. We will always stand by our partners in their right to self-defense. The United States will continue to take whatever action we deem necessary to

[13:06] respond to lawfare and protect our sovereignty and that of our allies. So just to review, uh the person who we are sanctioning is someone who opposes genocide and who had the uh tmerity to lay out in an excellent report the way that different companies are complicit in genocide. But the person who uh commits war crimes gets to have sanctions lifted off of his country and gets to have his organization uh welcomed into the non-terrorist world.

[13:37] So that kind of uh says everything you need to know about the rank hypocrisy of the United States. >> And someone to show the contrast in in really uh simple terms is Trita Pary. He uh wrote this. The man below is the founder of al-Qaeda and Syria. The US just took his organization off its terror list and lifted sanctions on him. The woman below is the UN rapper on Israel and Palestine. The US is about to impose sanctions on her. Let that sink in. Yes. And I hope people can now who

[14:08] maybe were confused by the war in Syria, who heard maybe nasty things about the stance that people like me took. I hope that this contrast can help you understand why some of us were opposed to regime change in Syria. This was never about bringing freedom and democracy to Syria. Uh this was about just basically destabilizing a country that was part of a resistance block to Israel. That's what the dirty war in Syria was for. exploiting internal divisions, exploiting legitimate grievances inside a country to fuel a

[14:40] humanitarian catastrophe and ultimately support an insurgency that was led by al-Qaeda and that's who now takes power. And because the government now in power will essentially not challenge the US and Israel in the region, then their sanctions can be removed. And someone like Franchesca Albanesei who challenges Israel simply by trying to apply the law to Israel, she has sanctions on her. So that contrast is really important to understand not only how just what a fallacy the so-called rules-based international order is. Uh exposing just

[15:12] how subservient uh international institutions and governments are to Israel, but also just the aims behind our regime change awards. It's always to advance hegemony. It's never to advance human rights and freedom. really uh want to give a shout out to uh Francesca uh for being so fearless despite the fact that she's not only smeared as an anti-semite, which is a totally baseless accusation, but um uh now she's being sanctioned by the United States. The world of fast fashion has complicated

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[22:30] example. It's not just incompetence. This is DEI working to undermine meritocratic institutions and more people likely died than otherwise would have because of DEI. >> Okay, so basically he's saying uh too many people of color have jobs uh and that's why all these people died in flash floods. Um, it is so disgusting and it's so evidence-free and it's a good reminder good speaking of callbacks uh to when Elon Musk and former Fox News

[23:03] host Megan Kelly and others tried to blame uh the LA fires on DEI. Now, what's great about these claims is they don't feel any pressure to provide any evidence. It's just such an obvious uh deflection. It also is a deflection from uh what really is the cause and that is climate change denial uh austerity measures and uh those are are implemented in many cases to finance the rich through tax cuts and also give uh big oil handouts and subsidies but again

[23:33] no proof whatsoever that DI had anything to do with it and we don't know the exact culprit yet but it is um important to remember that uh certain things were done that cannot have been uh helpful that are very dangerous uh in themselves. So uh key positions have been cut as a result of Trump's Doge cuts including a warning coordination meteorologist position which helps coordinate evacuations with weather forecasters and emergency managers and the public. They many are saying that

[24:05] while there were cuts, it wasn't understaffed at the time of the floods, but experts have noted that these key vacancies could have played a role. Um, and of course, uh, the N OAA's new budget as a result of Trump's cuts under his one big beautiful bill would now essentially close all NAA labs, including the lab with uh, a key tool for predicting klutz. >> Everyone has their boogeyman. Democrats for a long time blamed Russia for everything. The MAGA people have have

[24:36] many book I mean they like to blame many different sources undocumented immigrants but certainly every single disaster you can always blame DEI. >> Yeah. And you know again there is more much to be uh investigated and demonstrated but obviously it's not good to to cut these positions to cut funding for things like this. And it more generally like warmer temperatures increase the amount of water vapor held by clouds which allows for more uh torrential downpours. And that's that's just established fact.

[25:06] >> And those have been your four basic food groups. For this week's interview, we have two different guests. First up is John Keryaku. He is a former CI officer. And he's going to help us sort out what's the deal with Jeffrey Epstein because the Trump administration wants us to believe now there's nothing to see here. Trump himself even said recently that why are you guys asking me about Jeffrey Epstein? It was Trump's own top officials, including Dan Bonino, who's a deputy head of the FBI, who were constantly hyping up the Epstein files

[25:37] as this huge massive cover up from the deep state and Democrats. And once Trump came to office, he was going to expose it all. And now the Trump administration is saying, "Hey, there's nothing to see here." >> And who better to talk about this with us than John Kuryaku, who himself is a major truth teller. He is a CIA whistleblower. He's the only person to have gone to prison over the CIA torture program and he was a CIA analyst and case officer. So, he has really great insights into what could have happened with these Epstein files and how uh the

[26:09] CIA and other intelligence agencies are fond of destroying evidence. And Katie did this interview solo. So, let's go now to Katie's interview with John Kuryak. [Applause] Welcome back to the show, John Kuryaku. >> Good to see you again. >> You, too. It's always a pleasure. You're an amazing storyteller uh and guest. And uh we want to talk to you about Epstein. >> Are you still talking about Jeffrey

[26:40] Epstein? This guy's been talked about for years. You're asking, "We have Texas, we have this, we have all of the things." And are people still talking about this guy? this creep. That is unbelievable. Do you want to waste the time and do you feel like answering? >> I I don't mind answering. >> I mean, I can't believe you're asking a question on Epstein at a time like this where we're having some of the greatest success and and also tragedy with what happened in Texas. It just seems uh like

[27:12] a desecration. But you go ahead. How do you like that? >> Yeah. Big change from what he was saying before. >> We're going to get to the bottom of it. said he's going to release all the documents, the he's going to release the videos and then you're still talking about this, >> right? Yeah. And he's hiding behind the tragedy in Texas. Um, so what are your thoughts? What what happened? I mean, I I did see that on both uh Pierce Morgan and on Fox News, you said that you feel material was probably destroyed. Can you elaborate on that and why that?

[27:43] >> Sure. at the CIA. Even though there are laws like the the Federal Records Act, which specifically says you cannot destroy documents, they destroy documents all the time. I mean MK Ultra even after even after Congress specifically told the director of central intelligence that he had to preserve the MK Ultra documents, he went back to headquarters and they destroyed 80% of the tens of thousands of pages of

[28:14] documents that they had on MK Ultra. So now, you know, we don't really know what is true and what's not true about MK Ultra because of of the cover up, >> right? Same same thing at the CIA with the torture videos. As soon as word leaked out that there were videos of Abu Zuba and Khalik Muhammad being tortured, Harriet Meyers, who was the White House counsel at the time in the in the George uh W. Bush presidency, Harriet Meyer specifically told Jose Rodriguez, the

[28:47] deputy director for operations at the CIA, and Gina Haspel, "Don't destroy the tapes." And Gina Haspel put them in an industrial grinder and destroyed them. >> Right? >> So, you know, why would we think that the FBI would be any different, especially when it comes to allegations that some of the most powerful and some of the wealthiest men in the world are implicated in the scandal. Some of the most powerful politicians in the world

[29:17] may be implicated in this scandal, right? >> So, I could absolutely see the FBI destroying documents. And we could speculate as to what the reason would be. It could be just cash on the barrelhead. >> You know, it may that may be it may be as simple as that. It may be that there's more to this so-called deep state than people think there is. So yeah, I I don't I don't trust that just like like this revelation like oh my goodness, it turns out there are no

[29:48] documents, there are no dossas, there are no videos except for child porn. Come on, man. Going back to the 1990s and you couldn't find anything. >> Yeah, it's pretty implausible. >> I don't buy it. >> Right. I mean, it it is just one of the latest examples of Trump and his administration uh promising to take things on, ranging from, you know, the deep state to draining the the swamp to uh the industrial military-industrial complex

[30:19] and then once they're in power, they don't. Or being uh America firsters and then saying ridiculous things about Israel. I mean, everyone from Cash Patel to Tammy Bruce making statements that are embarrassingly uh subordinate to Israel. So, I mean, does this is this just because Trump is really good at saying the right things? He I mean, I always I always think of him kind of like as a stand-up comedian. Uh he he knows how to work a crowd. He knows how to get a response from people. Um but then in terms of actual policy,

[30:49] he doesn't seem to to line up. >> I think that he's really not terribly interested in policy. I don't think he ever has been. And certainly we've had other presidents that weren't interested in policy, but yeah, I think that he says what happen whatever happens to be, you know, at at the top of his mind and um and whether he ends up contradicting himself later or not, he doesn't really care. I think that ideologically he's a Zionist and I think he's so much

[31:21] so that he's unwilling to bend. When I was serving in Bahrain, the Amir of Bahrain said something that has always stuck in my mind. He said, "The last American president to give the Arabs a fair shake was George HW Bush." >> Right? >> And every president since then has just been in the pay of the Israelis directly or indirectly. And the Arabs don't even pretend to think that they're going to get a fair shake, but we're seeing it in spades um in this administration.

[31:51] >> Yeah, I it's interesting you said that cuz I I think that Trump is and this is why I thought there was like a very small chance that he'd be better than Biden because I think that Trump maybe he's a Zionist, but I think his Zionism is a lot less strong, a lot weaker than uh Biden's. Like who was more in generally I think Biden is more of an ideologue than Trump. I mean, I think Trump is pretty not, you know, ideological, much more opportunistic. >> Definitely a populist. Yep. >> Yeah. I mean, full of it, but I think just in general, you know, what the

[32:21] bottom line for him is real estate uh more than it is any any kind of ideology. But, um, as someone who was in the CIA, what did you observe about the relationship between the United States and Israel? Oh, more than any other relationship that we have with any other country in the world, the relationship is dictated on Capitol Hill. Not at the White House, but on Capitol Hill. I I was I I was on a podcast earlier today. We were talking about this exact issue. And I said I said when

[32:54] I when I went to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 2009, I was the senior investigator there working for John Kerry. I had been in the job like a day or two days and these lobbyists came by. It was a parade of lobbyists, right? Every cause, every lobbyist comes through at one time or another, but this this was the first group of lobbyists and they came to the office and they said, "Hey, congratulations. So great to have you on the Senate

[33:24] Foreign Relations Committee. We're from Apac and we want to bring you on an all expenses paid trip to the Holy Land. I was like, "Oh, thank you. No, no, thank you." Oh, we we have a tour already laid out. We're going to take you to all the Christians Christian holy sites and you're going to see what a first world country we are and we are America's greatest ally and we're the only democracy in the Middle East. I was

[33:55] like, "No, thank you. Thank you." Well, there were there were a bunch of people who went. I didn't go. I I even was a little bit rude and I said, "Look, if I want to go to Israel, I'm going to pay for my own trip to Israel, but I I don't want you you guys to pay for a trip to Israel." And I didn't go, >> but others went. Well, it turns out they do this with literally every staff for every congressman, 435 of them in the House and a hundred of them in the Senate. That is money well spent. And

[34:25] then they contribute millions upon millions of dollars to um campaigns, congressional campaigns mostly. And man, if you look at Israel cockeyed, they'll primary you, >> right? And so they've gotten to the point or they've gotten us to the point where people are so afraid to say anything about Israel, anything, because if you say if if there's any criticism at all, no matter how mild, even if the

[34:55] criticism is of Benjamin Netanyahu as a politician, you're anti-Semitic. And then you've got to dig yourself out of that hole. >> Yeah. So most most elected officials they they just don't want to deal with it so they just go along. >> And what can you tell us about the relationship between Israeli and US intelligence? >> It is um not close on a uh on a personal level. Uh we never liked Mossad. They don't like us. Um the Israelis spy on

[35:28] the United States and uh they deny and deny and deny. In fact, I was on Pierce Morgan a couple of weeks ago debating oh my god Alan Dersowitz. I was with Scott Horton and we were we were debating Alan Dersowitz and uh Danny, what was his name? Yalon, he was the former head of Mossad general. And I said the Israeli spy on the United States and he said no, no, no, that's not true.

[35:58] when the Americans caught uh uh Jonathan Pard in 1995, we stopped spying on the United States. And I said, "With all due respect, General, that's not true because I didn't start at the CIA until 1990." and the chief of security warned us that there were two uh Israeli intelligence officers assigned to the Israeli embassy in Washington and 187 undeclared Israeli intelligence

[36:28] officers spread all across the United States stealing American secrets after having penetrated our defense contractors. So, with all due respect, you're dissembling here the Israeli spy on the United States. What do you think of the way that uh Trump has gone from being America first to uh someone who is a pretty sickopantic to BB? Now, to be fair, it's a kind of circle jerk uh where they both um really suck up to each other. And of course, you have uh

[36:59] Netanyahu, I mean, hilariously, uh nominating Donald Trump for a Nobel Peace >> Nobel Peace Prize. >> Yeah. Uh what do you think of this? >> Well, circle jerk is the best way to say it, actually. I I won't get into the specifics of what a circle jerk is. People can Google it. But >> when Trump dropped the fbomb, what was it, a week ago, two weeks ago, that was specifically meant for Netanyahu. >> Okay? >> Because Trump wanted his ceasefire between the Israelis and the Iranians.

[37:30] And Netanyahu was like, "Well, you know, maybe we're going to launch one more. Well, just one more barrage." And then he's like, you know, cut it the [ __ ] out or whatever it was he said. >> Yeah. They don't know what the [ __ ] they're doing. I think is what he said. That was specifically meant for Netanyahu because the Iranians only react. They don't they don't proactively attack Israel. >> Right. Despite the way the media covers it. >> Correct. And so that little there was just that little blip for a day and then it was all passed. I was driving um to Capitol Hill

[38:03] last night. You couldn't turn left on on 17th Street. you couldn't turn left on 15th Street. Pennsylvania Avenue was closed. I'm like, what the [ __ ] is going on here? Like, are they just going to shut down the city? I said, why is it like this? And the Uber driver said, BB's in town. Nobody's moving anywhere in Washington. >> And then I I talked to a a a contact of mine today who happens to be doing some work for the Israeli embassy, and he said that Netanyahu is staying for a

[44:47] >> Um, when when the Israelis u implemented this operation against Hezbollah with the pagers, the pagers and the cell phones. >> My phone ran off rang off the hook with former agency friends like, "What do you think about this?" And I said, "Holy [ __ ] this is like on the one hand, it's a it's a crime against humanity or a war crime, depending on your your position." Clearly, innocent civilians, including children, were hurt or killed because

[45:18] these things just arbitrarily blew up. And, you know, we saw reports of people having taken their phones out of their pockets and they put it on the table so they could have dinner with their families and it blew up and killed the nine-year-old girl >> that it was next to. So yeah, war crime, but absolutely brilliant from an intelligence operations perspective. Imagine the moving parts that went into an operation like this where you've got to control literally everything from the

[45:50] point of manufacturing through the supply chain across half the globe and then into the hands of the consumer. Absolutely incredible. I don't know if we'll ever be able to figure out how they pulled this off, >> right? >> And then, you know, working with the Turks, who the Israelis either love or hate, depending on what day of the week it happens to be, they came to this agreement that if you help us screw

[46:20] Assad, we'll help you screw the Kurds. And the Turks said, "Sounds good to us." Next thing you know, the Assad family runs off to Moscow. Bashar comes back for a week, fills the plane with riches, and then he runs off to Moscow. >> Right. >> So, these the Israelis have been very busy, and they've been very successful at it. For better or for worse, >> for worse, I would say. Um, >> but, you know, it's interesting because you have some people who say, "Oh, that was not I mean, obviously there's there's a lot of people say it's technically technologically brilliant."

[46:52] But then you have people saying, "Oh, it was targeted. It wasn't targeted at all." as you just pointed out, it killed it. >> Wasn't targeted. >> Yeah. And um you know, Leon Petta, who's not exactly a peace, he said it was an act of terrorism. >> Yeah. I that that shocked me because I would have expected the likes of Leon Petta to say, you know, bravo Mossad. Oh my god, we should all aspire to do things like that. But even he said it was an act of terrorism, which it was, >> right? >> It was. So going back to uh Epstein,

[47:23] what is the relationship between Epstein and Israel? And what do we know about uh who was uh on the plane uh who engaged in, you know, basically sex crimes. >> And to hear the rest of the interview, please go to useful idiotsspodcast.com. >> And to hear the full interview with John, please go to usefulidiotsspodcast.com. Uh, and it's a great it's a great uh interview. I really got to say always

[47:54] love talking to him. >> All right, up next we have a returning guest who's I spoke to Marta Havsko. Uh, she is visiting assistant professor at the Straler Center for Holocaust Genocide Studies at Clark University and we talked to her about the ongoing proxy war in Ukraine which is not coming to an end despite Trump's promises to uh broker a peace deal within 24 hours. He's now been in office for uh I don't know almost half a year and this war is

[48:24] ongoing and it's not going well for everybody especially Ukrainians as we will hear now from our guest Marta Havsko. [Applause] >> Marta Havishko, thank you so much for coming back to useful idiots. >> Thanks for having me. >> It's been a while since we covered uh Ukraine on the show. So I just want to start by asking you what is going on for people who are not following the day-to-day of the conflict. What do you think is most important for people to understand about the current situation

[48:56] inside Ukraine? >> So the current situation is very dire um due to different uh different developments. First of all severe Russian attacks. Now uh it was a new record when Russia during one night sent more than 700 drones across Ukraine to attack different Ukraine cities and to attack Ukraine infrastructure infrastructure and of course um we have the damage of residential buildings as

[49:28] well and deaths and injuries of civilian people including including children. So basically war is one of the most important factor but the second factor and according to some polls it's even more um it's even bigger trouble for some Ukraine is a corruption almost every single day we have new corruption scandals for example the deputy prime minister who recently had um business travel

[50:00] abroad and some some journalists assume that he escaped from Ukraine Ukraine because he was accused of corruption. And this is huge corruption scandal because the damage to Ukraine to Ukraine budget was approximately 1 billion grievas. And guess what? Ukraine court just you know just release him without you know fire him and with um you know this bail

[50:34] that is very small in comparison to damage to Ukraine government every single day Ukraine people see how you know top politicians members of parliament members of government and their their relatives buy new cars, buy new apartment in Ukraine and abroad in US and in Europe. But every single day the same ordinary citizens are um required

[51:06] to donate for the army to buy necessary stuff even to buy weapon. So basically this situation the corruption still one of the biggest problem in Ukraine. And recently Ukraine Ukraine people found out that many prominent journalists they basically are um cooperating with security service of Ukraine and with military intelligence of Ukraine. But at the same time they label themselves as

[51:38] you know independent journalists, investigative journalists. So basically it's a total distrust nowadays in Ukraine in the whole you know governmental system and many people don't believe that you know Zilinski team is handling the whole situation very good because we we observe this you know clash the this disaster at the oval office after that you know Zilinsky had several meetings with Trump and drop said oh it was a good conversation but

[52:09] still despite of this good conversation we observe how Trump hold um uh delivering a weapon to Ukraine. So basically the situation is very dire and um nobody understand what is the plan how to defeat Russia, how to regain lost territories with the enormous amount of desertters from Ukraine army and numbers are different according to different

[52:40] sources but at least 200,000 people deserted from Ukraine army. So the lack on the infantry people, the lack of soldiers, the lack of weapon, the lack of you know these these sufficient support from the west because we observe even neighboring Poland people are tired of this war and many of them don't want only approximately 15% of Polish people want to send their sons their husbands

[53:11] to Ukraine to fight Russians. So basically no one wants to send their their uh their loved ones to die for Ukraine for this corrupted government for this you know ethnationalist you know politics and uh with neighboring countries you know Poland, Hungary, Romania we have so many you know tensions in regard to you know language question and other uh questions in humanitarian politics. So Ukraine

[53:42] people are uh frustrated many of Ukraine people and they don't see the light in the tunnel. What next? Mers talked about you know towers for Ukraine. we will support as um long as as it as it took. But now the days what we observe pause in delivering weapons blah blah blah many talks and um you know uh only you know small small baby steps and in this configuration Ukraine has no chances to

[54:15] regain lost territories. Those who observe closely how many territories Ukraine is losing every single day, it's at least 15 20 square kilometers per day. And you know those scandals with with the lack of, you know, uh these uh uh infrastructure that could hold this Russian offensive, you know. So people asking what have you you know done for

[54:46] for you know strengthening Ukrainian defense system why where are those money you talked about this all the time you invaded Kursk and you explain Korsk region in Russia and you explain to ordinary people that this was such a great operation and so now Russians are retaliating because they want to at least create this zone security zone and prevent another attack of Korsk region of Belgarat region. And so even Billeski

[55:19] this you know celebrity of commander when he was asked about K corporation he said oh at the beginning it was a good you know result because it boosts morale of Ukrainians you know and humiliate um and humiliate Putin and his generals. Yeah. But what happened next? we will talk about this you know history will judge. So he avoided even to express his criticism of this operation and the many

[55:49] many you know commanders are very critical of this operation. So basically the main I believe the main main mood in Ukraine is disappointment. um regardless of these cheering uh comments from from you know state control media that are trying you know to to to talk about resilience and you know those uh Ukraans who want to rather die um experience glorious death for other Ukraine than you know raise their

[56:20] children you know in in peacefully. So it's it's insane. >> Let me show you a headline from a Ukrainian outlet. Uh that speaks to the long-term problems that Ukraine faces now on top of the immediate. Uh this is what it said. Ukraine has already lost 40% of its working age population according to the Ministry of Social Policy which also says that to restore the economy, Ukraine needs to attract an additional 4 to 5 million workers. Talk

[56:52] to us about this and um you know what this means for the country's future. >> Exactly. you know when when people those in the west who are I call them you know keyboard warriors who are you know just cheering waving Ukraine flags you know put on their social media you know Ukraine flags and stand with with Ukraine Slava Ukraine Ukraini and be brave as Ukraine they just you know they watch this you know as a video game they

[57:24] really you know for them it's very interesting all these developments how you know people to to observe how people are dying, you know, on the battlefield and how they are persecuted by drones. But war is not only the battlefield. Battlefield is most visible. Combat is most visible. Yes, we talked about different numbers about wounded soldiers about soldiers without limbs uh you know about um missing soldiers, soldiers about killed soldiers but war basically

[57:55] has so many dimensions and man one of these dimensions connected to this situation with work force. Ukraine experience enormous lack of work force and nowadays Ukraine officials are talking about inviting people from from Argentina, Colombia, Bangladesh and other countries. And this discussion is very tense. Why? because

[58:25] they uh many people consider this question in terms of this anti-immigrant rhetoric anti-Muslim rhetoric that is on the rise in the west and due to this rhetoric many farright in different countries including Germany Austria you know Sweden other countries France gain so um gain popularity and many especially far right they are so concerned because they are saying you White men are dying in the battlefield

[58:57] and what will happen next? They will bring you know brown people, black people, not Christian people. So they consider this as a security threat for Ukraine. So there is no a good solution for this and as long as war will continue the more people will leave Ukraine. Even today I have so many of my acquaint acquaintances and friends and relatives who consider to take their

[59:28] sons abroad before they turn 18 just in order to to give them better perspectives and in order to spare them from these force mobilization in order to give them a future basically at least some future because what Ukraine proposed Ukraine officially officials constantly say you should prepare for long war. You should prepare basically for forever war. So what next? You know

[1:00:00] people can't understand what is the plan. And more and more people I mean not only women who face no restrictions in movement. I mean men are paying tens of thousand of euros and dollars just to escape Ukraine. They use different ways, you know, they they they pretend to be, you know, volunteers, they pretend to be musicians, they pretend to visit, you know, some conferences abroad and then they never return to Ukraine. So they

[1:06:52] collaboration is such a broader uh such a broad definition in Ukraine that dozens of people are put um put on trial and charged with treason for comments on social media like this like cheering this attacks on recruitment centers. So basically nowadays everyone who is critical about you know for example personal sanctions against you know Ukraine imposed by Zilinski against his critics or is not happy about beatings

[1:07:26] kidnappings and killings of people in territorial recruitment centers they could be blamed for spreading so-called Russian propaganda to be the paid Russian assets and of treason. So basically nowadays martial law gives a lot of you know free hand to security service and to all these law enforcement that use even draft military draft selective military draft as a punishment against you know human rights activists.

[1:07:57] Yesterday, one of the journalists who was, you know, who was um um highly advocating um these of you know draft officers, violent deeds, he was drafted. Why? Because he criticized the government and you know people say why why you doing that? So basically they uh the government is sending a signal to all those critics. You can be on his place. You can be drafted easily you

[1:08:28] know and sent to the front line to the very hell and guess what what will happen to you you know and um uh uh uh what I must say regarding um um territorial recruitment centers. I invite our listeners and viewers to check uh the um latest uh Victor Orban post with condolences to one of their men 45 years old from uh Transcarpatia.

[1:09:00] It's a Ukraine region and this guy um had both Ukraine and Hungarian citizenship and he experienced force mobilization and he was so severely beaten that he died three weeks later. So basically those stories are almost absent in western media because they don't want to undermine these force mobilization. Yes. Because they they many of of Yes. Yes. Thank you so much.

[1:09:31] >> We're showing his picture on screen for our audience. >> His sister shared uh the news about him and all the details about about him. And he's not the first victim. We know so many little cases in different regions of Ukraine. Recently the guy from uh he was basically his father, he was a combat volunteer. his father was proclaimed missing on the battlefield

[1:10:01] one year ago in Pocro somewhere uh in in Pocross region. So he should be exempted from the military but he was attacked by draft officers. He was beaten allegedly and he died also. He died he was 31 year old. So only in the past years we found out two cases of deaths of those who experienced force mobilization and we all understand that during martial law

[1:10:34] many people in Ukraine are not willing to expose this information to make it public because the trust to law enforcement in Ukraine is approximately you know 10% nobody because of the extreme corruption in this judicial system in the police system. Nobody trusts the government but they really believe that they can face retaliation from the government. They can lose their you know jobs for the criticism and exposing this information.

[1:11:06] They can be drafted to the military or their relatives uh can face repercussions. So basically it's only the top of the iceberg that we observe you know but many people many people experienced in Ukraine this you know beating because why the one of the reason because draft officers were given free hands because commanders soldiers experts they say in one voice infantry we need infantry we running out

[1:11:38] of soldiers and nobody wants to go there you know I observe you know the thousands of NAF fellas on the internet. These brave, you know, archair warriors and nobody wants to go to Ukraine infantry. Nobody wants to experience, you know, chasing by Russian drone. Nobody wants to to live their rest life without, you know, limbs, without, you know, penis or without, you know, eyes. So it it's you know it's obvious that for many people it's a you know it's just game when real people are dying in

[1:12:12] Ukraine. >> Let's talk about one of the Zenfi government's uh more recent and controversial appointments. Ukraine has something called the Institute of National Memory. It's basically a history division of the government and they've just appointed uh this man to head it. Uh let's show him on screen. His name is Alexander Alfarov. >> Aurorov Alurov. It's a very Russian name actually. >> Well, so talk to us about who he is. Talk to us about who he is.

[1:12:43] >> So basically uh Alexandra Alurov is a historian is a PhD. So he's basically was trained as as a historian. He's a he's a scholar in Ukraine. He has a very popular blog in Ukraine about Ukraine history and many of these you know uh his TV shows are dedicated you know um I would say to demonization and diversification of Ukraine history you know so basically

[1:13:13] all this stuff but what is more important Alexandra Alfuro was a press officer of Azo regiment in 2014 2015 when this regiment was accused for so many war crimes in Donbas region. And when members of this regiment were very open about their neo-Nazis and making Nazi salutes very openly and they were very open extremist. After that when after 2022 he joined the

[1:13:47] special operation forces avoc assault brigade responsible for humanitarian question and you know ideological question. So basically for theological train of young men who are recruited who are lured to the army. So basically he's telling them that glorious death for Ukraine is the best option for you you know and you will be celebrated as hero. to go, you know, and

[1:14:19] enlist and and you know, experience this, you know, great glory. But what is important about Alfuro as well as well the third assault brigade in 2023 in one of the biggest museum in cave organized um photo exhibition uh that showed three at least three photos of Vafeness's division Galatia. It was the collaborationist Nazi military formation that um keep oath to

[1:14:51] Hitler and fight for Nazi Germany and committed war crimes in Slovakia for Yugoslavia and other regions. Some of the participants of these weapons as division Galatia participated in uh uh oppression of wars uprising in punitive operation against Polish people in Guta Pyanska and other and other cities. uh in the territory of Ukraine and Poland and Belarus and and and others and many of them actually were members of

[1:15:22] auxilary police. So basically they were involved in the Holocaust. So this guy actually created this exhibition and guess what members of his his brothers in arm members of his assel brigade they reenacted these fathers. So basically they compare themselves to Nazi collaborators not Putin not Scaba not Solio or other top Kremlin propagandists they themselves and this exhibition was

[1:15:54] created by Alfuro and guess what recently when he was appointed many people started to to talk about his you know background about his youth and we found an interview recorded last year when he praised is Hitler. He compared Hitler to Putin and say, "Oh, no, no, no. We can't compare those figures because Hitler, he received high German education. He was acquainted with high German philosophy and music. He, you

[1:16:27] know, so basically he advocated Hitler." And then you know uh I listen to this interview and as a holocaust scholar as a you know person who teach Holocaust I'm a Holocaust educator no and I listened how he started to defend uh you know he said you know Russians are trying to develop this myth that all Ukraines are anti-semmites and guess what during the period of Ukrainian

[1:16:59] people's republic proclaimed In 1918 it was you know se separate state from from Russia for the first you know time in 20th century. They even organized the ministry of Jewish affairs and they have the banknotes with Yiddish and it was true but then he stopped. But what happened next? The wave of anti-Jewish programs perpetrated by the army of these republics and tens of thousands of Jews were killed were wounded were robbed and were raped and it caused one

[1:17:31] of the biggest wave of immigration to United States. I have so many students, my students here at Clark Universities whose relatives came as a result of these programs. We know that many actors perpetrated those programs including you know white army bel and even some you know parts of the Soviet army but the most programs were perpetrated by those you know Ukraine nationalists you know but this Ukraine army army of Ukraine

[1:18:03] independent state but he's saying nothing about this so what to expect from this guy on this you know and I must say this is the main national memory actor in Ukraine Ukraine it's a governmental institution and we know that at least 50% of Ukraine budget is uh filled by by you know western countries and all salaries of all government workers are paid by western

[1:18:34] pay taxpayers. So I want to ask those Hulk scholars, Hulk descendants, Hulk survivors, are you ready to pay him salary? Do you want him on the top of this, you know, institution in charge of creating national memory in Ukraine? >> You know, it's a shame. >> These are questions. These are questions that I wish our media asked, but unfortunately still not allowed to be discussed in the mainstream. We're going

[1:19:06] to wrap. Martin, so you said earlier that, you know, you're worrying that Ukraine is becoming a dictatorship. Is there any aspect of this they haven't discussed yet in our conversation that you want to make sure we address before we wrap? >> Um, I want to to um address the question of so-called personal sanctions imposed by directly by Zalinski. So in past weeks and months, Zalinski by his personal decision uh decisions imposed personal sanctions against some

[1:19:37] politicians, journalists and bloggers. Most of them of course escaped from Ukraine, including Arestovich, his former advisor who is very critical of what is going on in Ukraine nowadays. And this list is very wide and includes you know people uh like you know Bundareno who um wrote this book Joker uh very critical towards Zilinski. So basically uh many human rights organization

[1:20:08] organizations even in Ukraine and uh uh and recently the council of Europe commission for human rights they paid attention for this and they are very critical of this because it's against those sanctions are against constitution because in order to impose sanctions you need to prove that those people are involved in some terrorist activity or horror and this must be proved in the court. But what Zilinski did, he did this against you know all

[1:20:40] Ukraine laws and it violates not only Ukraine constitution and Ukraine laws but also those laws and uh international treaties signed by Ukraine. So basically those who say oh Ukraine is such a vibrant democracy. No guys, you know, no. And what we observe many media in Ukraine who were fin which were financed by USA and pretended to be you know liberal independent you know media. Now

[1:21:12] they join this you know bullying of these people sanctioned by Zalinski. They justify this to the public. They use slurs against those people, strong wars. But the only you know their fault is the harsh criticism of Zalinski and his team and the corruption and how they handle the war and how you know they protect the children of their own you know bodies from the front because in Ukraine military draft is very selective
