Title: DeProgram (Ted Rall)
Show: DeProgram Show with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas
Date: 2025-12-06
URL: https://youtu.be/58ot2wKPwto
Duration: 73:00

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[09:04] >> Good morning everyone. Thanks for joining us. You're watching Drogram with Ted R and John Kuryaku. Sitting in in the John chair is editorial [laughter] cartoonist for the Chicago Tribune, Scott Stantis. Scott, thanks for joining us. >> Thanks for having me. >> Thanks for filling in. John will be back on Monday. We're here Monday through Friday, 9:00 a.m. Eastern time. Uh John's nothing uh nothing terrible. He's attending a funeral, but it's uh for an elderly relative. Um, you know, I always think that it's funny when we think, well, you know, it's not the tra not a

[09:35] tragedy because they lived to be old, but you know, you miss them more if they lived to be old because you knew them longer. >> You think? >> I mean, I'm just saying it's worth considering that possibility unless you got sick of them because you knew them for so long and you're [laughter] like, "Bye." >> Well, that plus, you know, they dementia and other things which you and I have both dealt with. I mean that that it can be actually a blessing when they >> it can be I mean or at least a mercy let's put it that way. >> Um some people it's a blessing you know

[10:06] not it's not always bad when people die. Um okay so [laughter] that's dark. Uh it's Anyway um thanks everyone. Please like follow and share the show. Um please continue. Um so we did achieve our thousands for Robbie Aid. Um thank you everyone for getting us to $1,000. We do that every month in order to keep our producer who we, you know, as you guys know very much we really need. Robbie will be in the background and starting about half an hour. He's got something to do this morning. If you would like to

[10:38] uh, you know, kick in and tip, it doesn't hurt. Uh, he can use the money. He's still, you know, this is his job now. Goofundme.comfdprogrambie or you just go to gofundme and search for dprogram Robbie as one word. Um, thanks for uh everything. Uh, okay. So, lots going on. Um, we're going to go over this report that came out of the UK that's blaming uh President Putin of Russia for that 2018 poisoning of a 44 year old British woman. Uh, we'll get into the details there. Uh, also the New

[11:09] York Times has a new report about how the corruption in the Zilinsky government and exactly how it works. Um, and you know, it's not a big secret, but the how is kind of somewhat interesting. So, we'll get into that. Uh obviously all eyes right now are focused on the Pete Hegsth career death watch. Will he survive the media the Friday afternoon Sunday a Saturday morning traditional media dump when resignations and firings occur at times like this? If he's still

[11:39] DoD chief by Sunday morning, I'd say he's safe for the time. >> D Ted, >> that's right. That's right. Although it's not formally that. So, I'm still gonna call him the sec death whether he likes it or not. Um, I mean, he might drone me. That could happen, but you know, like on the air, at least I'd get ratings for once. Um, [laughter] so, and new poll out, um, Trump's disapproval rating is continuing to increase. Can the Republicans save their asses? Uh, lots of questions in the YouTube chat to get through before we start these

[12:11] things. And also, as if that wasn't enough action-packed deprogramming for you today, um there's breaking news. You guys probably, if you have a phone, you've already seen it. Netflix is uh has just committed to purchase Warner Brothers, the uh legendary film studio, but they also have a bunch of other properties, including Max, uh which HBO Max, which was HBO, then it became Max, now it's HBO Max. Sounds like I just think of Maxipad every time I hear. >> Yeah, me too. um $83 billion dollar. Um

[12:44] obviously there are antirust implications here. Um I know Scott you have thoughts about that and >> yeah and let me just say that I I I I can't speak for John but I think I can on this instance and say that if Netflix wants to buy this podcast for [laughter] half that amount I have to believe that even socialist Ted R would have to say yes. Well, we do live in a cap we do live in a capitalist system. So, until the revolution comes, as Jean Paul Sartra said, we must all

[13:15] live with the system that we have. So, yes, you you are correct. All right, let's do some questions, then we'll get to our first topic. And Scott, you can think of what you want to talk about first because there's the order is not really that important. Okay, so Elliot Cover T, thank you very much for this question. With Ukraine appearing to be on its last legs and Russia poised for victory, have Western elites learned anything about how to conduct prudent foreign policy since 2022? This will be a short answer. Scott, >> I'm sorry, Ted and I have been talking about this for years and the problem is,

[13:46] you know, initially I was very much in support of Ukraine uh because they were invaded u and nobody likes to be invaded. However, now that this this has gone on, you can't keep calling something a democracy if it doesn't have, you know, democracy. So, in this instance, the the report on the corruption is no no surprise because Zilinsky has shut down all opposition. He shut down all elections. And when you do that, well, you've opened the gates, the floodgates for all sorts of

[14:17] mischief. And I mean, this is Ted, you cannot, of all people, Ted R cannot be surprised. >> No. Uh, no. No, and we'll be getting into the Zalinski corruption story, but I mean, you know, have have the have the US policy makers learned anything? No, clearly not. I mean, look at look at what's going on now. We'll be talking about the Venezuela situation, but um you know, Venez the approach to Venezuela makes the neocon attack on Afghanistan and Iraq look positively professional by comparison. I mean, [laughter] they're not they're not even

[14:48] bothering to message the American people about it. and the the legal um you know structures are as flimsy as a as a Jenga game uh right before the very end right I mean it's completely insane um so no they haven't learned anything um another question from Medorasian I'm sorry if I mispronounced that I'm curious about your perspectives on the Arab Spring role did Obama and the CIA play and how did Egypt fall in 2012 the Arab Spring of course started in Tunisia um with the

[15:20] overthrow of Ben Ali Um the and of course uh the the fall of uh Hosni Mubarak in um in Egypt was a big part of it. Look the the CIA played a huge role in the overthrow the Ben Ali thing less so uh but in terms of Egypt we you know the CIA the US called Mubarak and said you've got to step down and um and basically you know the Egypt was a client state. I mean this by the way I like this is one of my favorite rants. I always say you can't have a

[15:52] nonviolent revolution and the you know terir square and the um the the overthrow of Mubarak was largely a peaceful affair. I mean not to say that there was no violence or anything. In fact I know a woman a reporter who was there for Alazer in Ter Square and she was raped in Terrar Square. Okay. So by by gross guys um who were there. So it you know it's not like there was no violence but I mean it was not a revolution right as you and I both know it from history. And and what do you get

[16:23] out of that? You end up with Alsisi who is no completely the same as Mubar. >> Yeah. >> He's exactly >> it comes out of the um you know the dictator [laughter] the dictator factory out of central Ohio where they produce these guys. Hey audio for some reason. I'm gonna I'm gonna jump off and then jump back on. Okay. >> Okay. Maybe you can use your phone. Switch to your phone or whatever. >> This technical glitch. >> Okay, that's totally fine. Um Okay. So,

[16:53] uh as Scott Stantis tries to uh get his get back in, and I'll put him back in right away. Um this happened yesterday on the DMZ America podcast, so I have a feeling that Scott needs to call his uh tech people. But anyway, um thank you. Thank you, Fuso, for the uh dollar donation. Sloppy Russian spies, which the the title of today's uh today's uh broadcast. Sounds snotty. Yeah, it kind of does. That was kind of like my that was my duty. Scott, do you hear me now? >> I do. And I apologize for

[17:25] >> Great. Yeah, no worries. You know, these things happen uh all the time, unfortunately. Um comment that I think is worth mentioning from Triple JXYZ. The peasants are sent to the meat grinder while the elite uh enjoy caviar in a in a Swiss ski village courtesy of US and EU taxpayers. Of course. Oh yeah, that's always been the case. I mean, I'm trying to think it was Oh, yeah. The presidents of Mexico. I think there are more ex-presidents and former presidents of Mexico in Connecticut than there are actually in Mexico.

[17:55] And I think that's that's a fact. Um they don't stick around. They get their Luger and they move on. And so, yeah, Zilinski is going to be in Switzerland, didn't you say? There's um >> he has several places. He has a Yeah. Place in Lake Ko. Um and so he could he could easily end up in Germany, Italy, France. I have a feeling he'll end up in France because it looks like Macron is his best boy. >> Okay. Well, there you go. [laughter] It's And it's unfortunate because as I say, initially he seemed to be a

[18:27] righteous fighter against an invasion of his country and that Okay. Did he really? >> He did. Yeah. Come on. >> It's funny because I don't I don't remember having that opinion and I don't think I expressed >> You did not. I did and most most people did. Um because that was the optics. But then, you know, as you pointed out, you were one of the few ones who w who who was because it was, you know, not not kosher to say that he was that he Zalinsky was somehow not a Democrat, >> a grifter. Well, it turns out that uh yeah, he that's exactly what he

[18:58] >> What since when has anything bad ever h happened from electing an actor as president? >> Oh, something some good things happen. Let's be clear. >> Well, in your opinion. [laughter] Uh okay. But anyway, go ahead. I I I apologize. I interrupted. >> That's all right. I was just saying one time we did it, we had the largest uh economic expansion in the history of the country. >> So that's that that would be a good thing. >> Really? Bill Clinton wasn't an actor, though. That was the biggest >> Bill Clinton I think took got there's a lot of momentum coming from the Reagan

[19:29] Reagan >> George HW Bush administration and the 1990 recession >> that was such a shallow recession. God you have one recession they hold it against you forever. Well, it's it was personal to me because I graduated in 1991 from Colombia and you know, you know, that used to be a good school before it was descertified uh by Trump. It was and uh it's like you got out and literally they canceled the jobs fair. Not one single employer was Yeah. Not one single employer. Well, and this is what I mean this plays into other

[20:00] events, recent events, uh when George HW Bush in 1991 said that the the recession was over. >> And you don't do that. Don't tell the American people >> that they're doing. In fact, it's you know, this is kind of like you you ever see that French movie, Scott, called Ridicule? If you haven't, you would love it. It's a costume drama. >> No. >> Uh well worth seeing. Look it up. Um basically, it's about a young um poor aristocrat. those things did exist from a swampy part of southern France who is

[20:30] basically goes to Paris and hangs out at the court in order to curry favor to try to get royal funds so that they can you know drain the swamps literally in his district and get rid of malaria that's afflicting his the peasants. So he go and they tell him basically what he's going to have to do to suck up and become popular in the French court which is and and and yeah and and basically >> wait why did I bring this up? What did you just say before that? Um, oh my god. >> Well, about George HW Bush saying that the recession was over.

[21:01] >> Yes. And he said, and so one of the one of the pieces of advice that the older experienced aristocrat tells this young man is never laugh at your own joke. Always let other people praise you. And I think that's really valuable. >> Okay. Do you laugh at your own jokes? Because I laugh at my own jokes. If I I will admit that if if it's really a good joke or in my in my opinion I I find myself doing that and then I remember the movie. Don't do that. Stop that. Um all right, let's let's talk about the

[21:32] another question here. Sherlock Holmes, any update on the Lou Crown Jewels? I feel like that is a downplayed story. Um no. Uh basically there's been some arrests. Uh the the the French are investigating. The jewels have not been recovered. That's a, you know, and by the way, nor were they insured. >> Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm sorry. This is a piece of information I did not know. They were not insured. >> No, according to the Louver, which used to be like Colombia, an institution that

[22:04] had that was worth something. They couldn't afford the insurance, the uh the coverage. I guess it's like Obamacare. The premiums were just too high. So the uh they couldn't afford it and they're like, "Ah, we'll be fine." So >> what's the worst that can happen? [laughter] >> Exactly. So yeah, so the jewels are MIA still. The uh I would imagine that look, the French police and the surite are are not it's not unknown for them to torture people in custody. So I would imagine

[22:36] that uh the the thieves h are currently like hanging from the ceiling uh and and you know having a very un very bad day and very bad night every day and being like where are the jewels? Where are the jewels? Um so uh but we will obviously keep you posted uh when anything uh breaks on that. >> Story. >> Uh yeah >> amazing. I mean just to I mean and it's not high-tech. It's not like it was like they got a ladder. That was pretty much

[23:06] it. It was a bunch. It sounds so far. Although there's there now that the fact that they can't find the jewels, but doesn't it sound like it was just a bunch of kids said, "Hey dude, we got a ladder." [laughter] Yeah. Like I got the ladder for the weekend. Let's go. Um yeah, you know, it sounded like it was a really wellexecuted thing until we figured out it wasn't. Um I [laughter] know. >> Okay. Village Idiot TV, thanks for the question. Disagrees with me. Perhaps the civil rights in the movement in the United States was a kind of nonviolent revolution if only regionally also India

[23:38] uh must maintain hope for non-violent change. I maintain hope for the second coming of Jesus Christ but it's not going to happen. And uh and similarly look the civil rights movement was not a revolution is the replacement of one class of elites by another. It involves as mount it is not a dinner party. It is the violent overthrow of one cast and people do not you know one class of elites does not give up that power nonviolently ever and in terms of India that's also not a revolution that's an

[24:09] independent struggle and I'll save you the trouble South Africa uh the struggle against apartheid is uh that's an emancipation movement also not a revolution as proven by the fact that the rich white Africaners who were rich afric white Africconers before 1986 six are still rich white counters today. If a revolution had happened, that would not be true today. But I do maintain I maintain hope for the second coming of Christ and for the second coming of print media. >> To be fair, um you know um the um

[24:40] they're now they're soon to be um rich white Americans because they're the only ones apparently who [laughter] immigrate here. Now >> that's a good point. Thanks for that correction, Scott. Um Philip Blair has a political cartooning related question. Sure. Didn't they try to tell us the Arab Spring happened because a political cartoonist made a 14minute video? What was the political cartoon angle? >> Oh, right. Oh gosh, I have a vague memory of that. And do you do you remember it, Ted? Because I'm trying. >> I have a vague memory of it, too. Um >> Um and it wasn't um it wasn't Farat in

[25:14] Syria who was the cartoonist and um Assad's goons picked him up and beat him to within an inch of his life. Broke both his hands. is pretty atrocious. Uh but that's not what's what the trigger was. The trigger was um oh my gosh. And now I'm trying to remember what was another scandal. Oh um Hillary Clinton and the uh the video that triggered the killings in um Libya. Oh gosh.

[25:45] Remember that Ted? The um >> oh the am not the ambassador but the um yeah the ambassador >> Benghazi attack. >> What's that? the Benghazi at the attack on the Benghazi consulate. Yeah. >> And that that was that was caused by a video >> that had like three views, >> right? And also was and there was also Yeah, I remember part of the blame was uh not a video, right? But it was the um Danish Muhammad cartoons, >> right? Well, that's what that the video was about. It showed them on YouTube. It

[26:15] was a YouTube video that creepy. >> Yeah. So, all right. So to refresh people's memories, um there was a um a Danish newspaper, a satirical magazine that published um a series of cartoons basically that were just like Muhammad sucks cartoons. Um and they're they're kind of if you see them now, you're probably like, "Oh, I remember those." Um one's famous one's got like one where Muhammad's turban is a oldfashioned bomb with the with the fuse sticking out. Um and there's a bunch of others. Anyway,

[26:46] those cartoons, it's hard to overstate just how much [ __ ] they caused around the world as they were spread by rabble rousers like basically radical Islamists in Kbble and all over the world, Cairo. They showed them. There were demonst mass demonstrations all over the place. Um, you know, I mean, there were assassins dispatched to kill those cartoons. There was a fatwa the cartoon. One guy, I love this story. Um the he was sitting in his uh his house in

[27:16] Copenhagen and he was like he had like a a Jodie Foster style safe room in his house. I mean as all cartoonists do and as Scott and I do guys don't remember don't forget that. Um but he had tricked out his house like a fortress in preparation for this. And some murderer, some al-Qaeda type dude, some ISIS type dude show broke into his house with a [ __ ] you know, AR-15, probably an AR-15, but an ARX-15 style gun, armed to the teeth, grenades, the whole thing.

[27:48] And the guy basically went to his safe room, the cartoonist. [laughter] He was like 65, like, and basically locked all the doors, and he had speakers in there. It was like a movie. And he's like, "Hey, [ __ ] Guess what? You're locked in. I'm safe. the cops are on their way. [ __ ] you. And like started insulting the prophet and like just going on and on until the cops arrived [laughter] and the guy's just sitting in there drinking port and just like waiting for for the whole thing to happen. I was just like, you know, I don't appreciate the cartoon

[28:19] and I'm not sure it was a good idea to be to insult someone's religion gratuitously. But that said, I gotta hand it to that cartoonist. That's some pretty balls out action. >> Yeah, I love that. We um we may or may not have safe rooms if anyone's listening who may want to do us harm. I'm just want to be I want I want to be really clear that you don't know that we don't have a safe room. >> Well, that's true. And I would >> really clear. >> Not to mention I also have an attack cat >> and will the the the bloodshed there's

[28:52] already been enough bloodshed due to that cat and nobody needs to see anymore. So, ISIS, I'm looking at you. [ __ ] off. >> Well, we we just got a dog and I um he's been leaving telltale signs that the squirrel issue we were dealing with is no longer an issue. Just saying. There's a pile of fluff and bones around the I've stumbled across in our backyard now. >> You know, things can things turn ugly when animals do [ __ ] All right. So, let's What do you want to talk about first? Um Novachuk Zalinski.

[29:25] >> Zilinski is a great I mean, here's the thing. about Zinsky. If you followed Ted and I also do another podcast called DMZ America and for years you and I have been talking about this and as I mentioned at the top of the show here that I was a supporter of the Ukraine and its resistance against the Russian invasion, but you continually brought up, you know, Zalinsky, not a Democrat, you know, um Zalinsky, the corruption that was starting to show its face. Where was the money going? We didn't even know what happened, for instance,

[29:56] to Russians who were taken prisoners. Uh, have we ever seen or heard a report about what what Ukraine does with Russian PS? I haven't, and I've made a concerted effort to look. I couldn't just be looking in the wrong places. The point is that democracy's got a democracy, you know, that's just there's no other way around it. And so when you're supporting someone who is supposedly a um you know fighting for democracy, he he was a duly

[30:26] elected kind of dulyeleed as Ted will give you the backstory on that. Uh but he was ostensibly a duly elected uh president of Ukraine. But then he cancels elections. He cancels regional elections. And people here are, and this is what drives me crazy, Ted, is people here in the in in the um diaspora of the of political talk make excuses for anything. He says, "Well, he's having a war." Well, you know, guess what, folks? The United States had elections during a

[30:56] [ __ ] civil war. You can have elections. They're not that hard to hold. Uh regardless of the circumstance. Yes, they'd be extraordinary circumstances, but what a message to the world to say, "Yeah, you know, even though we're being invaded by an overwhelming force, we still are holding him off enough to have elections." And that would have been an extraordinary moment. Zalinsky chose not to do that. He he I >> Well, he was concerned about what's the word? Losing. >> Well, there I don't know that he would

[31:27] have lost the early elections. Who knows? I mean, that's the thing about elections. You don't know. That's why they hold them. >> Remember, he only had he had very low approval rating before the war began. So, >> did he? >> Yeah, he he was he was in the toilet. I mean, he was he I mean, he had he would he would be he would have been jealous of the numbers Trump has right now. >> And he could have I mean, yeah, he could. And you can always bring that back. Don't forget um Oh, what was his U Yeltson was was polling at 9% when he ran for reelection in Russia. Uh

[31:57] >> I'm surprised. I'm like, who are these 9%? >> His family and the oligarchs he gave stuff to >> bartender. Um, >> so to finish the thought, you have been you've been on the cutting edge of this story as you are so often on and you get no credit for it. You have been pointing this out for years and um some of us began to listen to you and began to look, oh yeah, Ted's right. This is this is this is corrupt. It's undemocratic. Uh we're backing the wrong horse or or

[32:29] we shouldn't be backing any horse. We should just be going, "Wow, look at that. That stuff's happening." Hm. And you know, maybe that's what Trump means when he says this wouldn't have happened under his watch because >> Well, I don't really want to read I mean, I don't know. We can relitigate the whole Ukraine war and I'm always happy to do that because I feel like I I you know, I was I I feel okay with my position, right? I'm not running away from it. And I don't run away from my positions when I change them either. But in this particular case, what I really wanted to focus on is this is this

[33:01] report from the New York Times, which is like I'm shocked, shocked, shocked to find corruption here. Yes. Um I mean it's like they basically Ukraine has had uh you know has been ranked something like number 173 uh by Transparency International's list of uh most transparent countries and least corrupt countries. I mean, it's it's long had a long-standing corruption problem, even by the standards of former Soviet republics. Um, and even prezilinsky as well, Zalinsky ran in part claiming that there wouldn't be corruption. He did

[33:33] have a pretty funny joke when he was running. He was asked like, "Can anyone be president of of Ukraine without stealing?" I don't know. We should we should try to find out. Well, apparently we did find out. Apparently the answer is still no. Um but according to the New York Times which has been you know running interference for Zilinski and you know very for for three years plus um you know they're saying that uh Ukraine set up these oversight boards to make sure that there's no corruption but you know you basically Zilinsky stacked

[34:03] those boards with his buddies left the seats completely empty what Hunter Biden wasn't available or stalled [laughter] them from being set up at all and that they even re that Zilinsky even rewrote the company charters so that there would be no oversight whatsoever. The point is here's the issue, Scott. Even if we think that Ukraine is a righteous cause or any country is a righteous cause and that we should interfere in that and I don't believe in that. I I don't I just don't we the US experiences with regime change. I don't even but but like okay

[34:34] shouldn't you as a as a as a caretaker of American taxpayer funds how can you fund a wildly corrupt country when you know that all the money is not going to go to the defense of that country it's going to be stolen and and go to and go to pay for villas in Lake Ko that's what happened here any [ __ ] could see it coming because of Ukraine's current and recent history of corruption I I mean, on that basis alone, I would have said like, "Well, we love you Ukrainians. You

[35:06] guys are beautiful. Love you. You're all blonde and everything. Can't help because we don't trust you. We don't think you'll I mean, look at all the billions we poured into Afghanistan into again a wildly corrupt government. Um, and all the money, you know, the the soldiers who wanted to fight the Taliban didn't have m didn't have ammunition because all the money was stolen." So, I mean, you can't really help a corrupt country is my point, >> right? And the reason I brought up all

[35:36] the other earlier stuff is that, you know, it just set the table for corruption. You know, when you're supposed to be a a a democratic in, you know, country with democratic institutions that presumably have safeguards and governors to prevent corruption. That's basically what we we, you know, what we do or what democracies do. And when you get rid of democracy, then you set the table. You're going you're going to have corruption. It's inevitable. It's going to happen. And that's what's happened here. Um, you know, and the the world is handing this

[36:08] guy lottery, you know, big lotteryized checks on foam core. You you're already a winner. [laughter] It's a billion dollars for this, a billion dollars for that with no accountability. Well, again, sticky fingers are going to um are going to imp >> Oh my god, I love I love I love Elliot's comment. The irony of American foreign policy. People who don't understand how to govern Ohio or Michigan think they know how to govern a country with a totally different culture and history across [laughter] the ocean. Can't say it better, so I'm not going to

[36:39] try. Um Philip Blair, u thank you for this uh this that that an that 14minute movie was called Innocence of Muslims. It's an anti-Islamic film written and produced by Nakula Basilei Nakula. Um so that's that's that's the film that Arab Spring thing that prov you know provocative thing. Um yeah um sneaker dad most people believed Ukraine was a democracy and they were wrong in a big way. Yeah. Um, you know,

[37:10] and here's the thing, and this is a this is an academic question, but you know, if you're assessing, first of all, I'm not sure that every democracy needs US defense dollars, but like like, okay, but let's just say that that's the the metric somehow. Um, the the the you know, Ukraine was like barely a democracy before 2022, right? I mean, like they overthrew their democratically elected president in 2014. >> And so here's a question. If you overthrow

[37:40] a, you know, a guy undemocratically as part of a partly CIA, partly Nazif funded coup, which is what happened, then is this are his successors legitimate? And I'm like, is maybe >> eventually >> eventually I mean, yeah, it's it's hard to say historically, right? Um, okay. So, I think we can sort of agree. So, if you had to go back, if we had to go through this again and say

[38:11] like, oh, like a a terrible um, you know, a terrible country, let's say, let's say China. Oh, here's a question for you, Scott, and then we'll move on. >> Okay. >> All right. Let's say China attacks Taiwan, which is definitely a democracy. Um, how do you feel? Should should we help? >> How do I feel? Or what is going to happen? >> Well, should how do you feel? Do you think we should help? We are so immersed in that relationship that um I don't know that we'd have any

[38:43] choice. I have to believe that you know uh through treaty through um uh uh mutual defense packs through just the fact that they buy a bunch of our our our ships and guns and bullets uh we're going to be we're go in there. Should we go in? Is that the hill that you want to flush 100,000 American lives down? boy. Um I I'd have to think I'd have to think long and hard on that. And I've not It's weird because it's not like this is a

[39:14] new issue, Ted. It's not like >> No, it's not. And I haven't had the time. >> And I And my father-in-law was a Taiwanese independence um advocate. Um and and so I mean I I know the issue. Here's the thing. I don't I think it's a simple issue for the US. >> The official stance of the United States government is that Taiwan is not an independent republic. The official stance of the United States government is that Taiwan is part of China. Uh we've assured China of that since for for since the Nixon sorry since the Ford

[39:45] administration. So um sorry Carter Carter right. So basically you know we can't defend a non-country. So like in legally as far as we're concerned unless we recognize American independence I mean Taiw unless we recognize Taiwan independence they have to declare independence >> then then then then it it's so my my point is it's I don't even think then we should go but it's I'm a non-interventionist but >> there's nothing to talk about until that

[40:15] happens. >> Right. >> No, it's it's and you're absolutely correct. It's not a sovereign country. It's not recognized by the United Nations. is not really recognized by the United States government as a sovereign country. I wish it were. It should be. I mean, it's it's been >> maybe they would have to declare independence first for that to happen. >> Of course. Um >> they haven't had the balls to do that yet. So, >> well, Trump, if you remember, on the campaign trail has had alluded to just saying, let's just, you know, just pull the trigger. And if anyone's going to just pull the trigger, it's this guy. And he hasn't done it. He's looked, I

[40:46] mean, he's looked at the um the dynamics and said, "Okay, this is no, we can't. This is this is this is going to be get way too messy. And so um so given what you've just stated, I'm I'm anti-intervention now, too. I mean, I I tend to get seduced by, oh, this sounds like a good idea until it's not. [laughter] >> Well, that's that's the American way. Um >> but yeah, so so I think that's one thing I respect about the Trump administration so far, except for, you know, on some of

[41:16] its foreign policy, which is that it's against it doesn't like war. part sees war is stupid, wasteful, expensive. Um, you know, may and you can make the case that maybe it's necessary, but I would make the case that, you know, if you look at many conflicts through a historic lens that they were not necessary and that America just got, you know, hurt itself more by jumping in. So, with Taiw, that's a great academic. I'll have to give that some more thought. agents.

[41:56] Those guys apparently they're fat and stupid and they're um you know, [laughter] have you did you read those reports? That's hilarious. We can send them. >> Yeah, indeed. Indeed. Uh okay, so let's see. Um okay, so sorry I I dropped the feed a little bit. My apologies. That's my fault. Uh, okay. So, let's see. We have a we have an ad and I should go ahead and read that ad. >> Read it with Verve. I love that. >> Always always with always with Verve. Um,

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[43:59] nerve agent. And basically their theory was that a pair of Russian uh FSB operatives had been sent to the UK to kill a Russian anti-Putin dissident. Uh basically that the operation was called off. So the derps threw it away. Um and then uh basically uh somehow it came into the into contact the perfume bottle containing the agent that had been dumped in a trash can uh somehow ended

[44:32] up being exposed. This woman was exposed to it. >> Oh no, no, no. The story gets better, Ted. >> And she died. >> Her hus partner >> um gave it to her as a gift. [laughter] >> Dumpster diving partner. Yeah. Well, he claims he got it at a charity bin, which I'm not sure this is a BBC report, which I'm assuming is a thrift store or something like that. So, yeah. So, he bought her some used perfume. [laughter] >> I love you, baby.

[45:02] >> I love you. I love you so good. You love me so much. >> And she sprayed it on her wrist and >> you smell so good. Wait, what's happening? Wait, what's wrong, honey? Honey. Okay. So now, so look, that story has more holes in it than, you know, more holes in it than a Venezuela attack um, you know, propaganda video. But now the new report, the British are doubling, tripling down on this. And now they're saying, well, it's Putin who sent this in to uh sent these FSB operatives to

[45:34] kill someone who they didn't kill. And so Putin should be and the Russians should be held legally and morally and ethically responsible for what happened here. Um, I'm going to just say that I don't know if I really want to call [ __ ] on it because I'm not sure it quite rises to the level of being as credible as [ __ ] but it's pretty it's pretty lame. I mean is I mean it just seems now that like with the loss of Ukraine the West is struggling to

[46:05] find ways to remind everyone why Russia is evil. >> Well I mean how I mean from what I can read and I can only read what is available obviously and that is that this this woman in the perfume was she did apparently die from exposure to a nerve agent. Um, initially they thought um it was it was something else that uh she was actually they actually called her a drug addict and the BBC reported her as a drug addict her being a drug

[46:36] addict and died from an overdose. Um, now they're now you know the I'm I'm assuming this is based on toxicology and based on fact. God knows you know we've never been lied to by government before. Chad, [laughter] >> especially not especially not about a rival government who we don't who you know our people don't like. >> So what what makes you what makes you think that this doesn't pass the smell test? >> Well, okay. So, first of all, we're being told that there's ways to sort of ID a nerve agent and say, you know,

[47:08] okay, well, we know based on the chemical composition of this thing, not only that only a cert only a nation state could have made it. Um, but on top of that, we know which nation state it came from. So, here's the thing. Um, you know, I know I didn't graduate, but I did do three years at Columbia School of Engineering and applied scientist uh as an app as an applied physics and nuclear engineering major. And let me just say that like that kind of chemical doesn't have this isn't like you can identify

[47:39] radioactive substances pretty well. Like you can pretty much say where a certain batch of plutonium came from or uranium, but you can't really and not with a 100% certainty, but with let's say 90% certainty. Um, you can't do that with a nerve agent. You can't there's just no identifying markers. So, it's like they're they're saying something that's not true from a physics standpoint and from a chemical composition standpoint. So, just on that basis alone, I never believed the story. Uh, and we don't I

[48:10] mean, it's kind of like also where's the proof that this was a nerve agent at all? And nerve agents can come from anywhere, right? I mean, hell, like they could have originated in the UK. um you know who it could have been some you know industrial disposal where some someone stole this from a factory uh or and you know and dumped it and then thought better of it dumped it into a dumpster where it end you know where it ended up at the tag sale right I mean I don't know I just I just I you know is

[48:41] it possible that this is ex this went down exactly the way that the uh the Brits say sure but you know it's there's just not enough certainty there to say we're going to I mean it feels like a real stretch to be like Russian President Vladimir Putin murdered this woman. >> Yeah. That's where the report gets it comes off the rails. Um and their their connection was that there was a dissident a Russian dissident that lived nearby. That's where this could have come from.

[49:14] Um and that seems fairly weak tea as well. But you're right, Ted. the the the the way the report meanders along and I read a little p piece of it this morning. It sort of goes duper dup maybe these, you know, some dissident. This is sort of the MMO for Russian agents is to poison these guys. This is the poison they used dah and Putin and you're kind of sitting there reading looking at this thing kind of going wait what did Putin actually did do you think Putin actually had like a card table like a f foldable card table and had a little box of these perfumes? He

[49:45] was just sort of [laughter] everything must go. >> It's like >> deadly perfume barely used [laughter] is is makes ladies of girls smell the way that they smell >> like cabbage and potatoes. [laughter] Who does not love? >> Yeah. It's a Yeah. >> Yeah. So you're I Ted, your smell your your smell meter kind of

[50:18] picking up on this. Yeah. To say to go from it's it's going from let's give it let's give it the best spin. Some goofy agents were there. They're going to try and douse this guy and they were going to kill his daughter as well apparent allegedly. Um and give her some perfume which seems weird if they wanted to kill him but let's I'm don't know what they're into. Um, and then it didn't work, so they throw it out. I mean, this isn't this isn't stuff that gets approved at the highest levels, you know.

[50:48] >> This isn't >> right. That's that's that's a fair point, too, right? I mean, so yeah, even if this were I don't know. Let's let's bra let's blame that American admiral. Apparently, he's taking the fall for everything these days. Um, let's move on. Let's move on to him. Um, so >> yes, >> uh there's a lot to talk about uh with this drone. this, sorry, the um not the Yemen. I don't know why the thing says Yemen. Um but with the uh boat attack in uh >> off the coast of Venezuela. >> In Venezuela. Yeah. So, basically the

[51:20] only I was talking to Jeral Thomas. Um he interviewed me this morning about this earlier before our show. Um and he brings up a he brought up a really good point which is you know why do we only care? This is a double tap strike. So double tap strike um as at least in recent history originated with something that um the Bush and Obama administrations used to do all the time in places like Pakistan and they probably you know I'm sure it still happens. Basically, you bomb a target, like usually a car for example, and then

[51:51] passers by, good Samaritans, first responders, ambulance workers, doctors, nurses, they come to assist, and then haha, aren't we funny? Then we drop another bomb in the same spot and kill all of them. That's called a double top strike. Um, you know, to basically everyone kind of agrees that's gross. Um, you know, and and yet, you know, we do it all the time. So that's what happened here. It's a double tap strike. Um the this the the changing narratives of the of the Trump

[52:24] administration definitely raised my hackles. I mean there's lots of times when you can have a changing story or a changing narrative. That's still totally true because you're trying to figure out what happened or you're looking at it from a different point of view. But in this particular case, this re this event was recorded right on video and it was recorded internally and there are detailed logs. So we blew up this boat. It was 40 feet long. There were two survivors presumably injured on the high seas clinging to a piece of wood in the

[52:56] middle of the of of the um of the Caribbean. Um the we we observed them for 41 minutes and then we dropped another bomb on them and killed them. I mean I guess to me that the we what we should have claimed was that it was a coup grass to put them out of put people who were going to die for sure out of their misery. Instead you have this story that first of all a that didn't happen. Well okay b it did happen. Then it's like okay well it was heath. Well no it wasn't heath. It was this

[53:27] admirable oh where was heath? He gave the order. No, Heath was at the bar or wherever. >> He's busy. Yeah. He said literally, "I was busy. There's a lot to do at the Department of War. [laughter] >> He was out waring." So, so this So then, so all these narratives keep changing and then it's like, "But it was the admiral, but we think he was totally right." And now there's a congressman said, "Oh, actually there was a third and a fourth strike." And I don't know if he was joking and being sarcastic or if he's being or if he's being real. The point is, um, the certain members of

[53:59] Congress were briefed. They saw the video. Democrats came out of it saying that they'd never seen anything quite like it, even though they'd seen video of other uh, aerial attacks by the United States that killed people. And the Republicans came out of it saying all AOKs, just like normal. Um, so there's a lot going on here. um these I mean and the New York Times finally gets around today to questioning well are any of the 87 deaths legal and is it maybe the problem here you know obviously we

[54:29] all kind of agree it's not sporting to to to blow up people who are clinging to a piece of wood the the administration actually argued Scott that like they were calling for backup that they were like on narot terrorist 911 like calling Harvey Keitel from Pulp Fiction to come save their ass, you know, come and come and help. Well, they were they could have gotten help. And I'm like, okay, well, at that point, they could have gotten into a UFO and and started an alien invasion of the Earth. I mean,

[55:00] anything could happen, but I mean, come on. They're in the middle of the ocean. There's no evidence for anything. They were trying to write their boat. >> Okay, the boat was blown to smitherines, but Scott, it was a 40 foot boat in the middle of the ocean. Even if it hadn't been blown up, like you know, if you and I are in the middle of the ocean, let's say we're both 25 and in tip-top physical condition, we can't turn over a 40 foot boat. >> I mean, I don't 10 guys can't turn over

[55:31] a 40 foot boat. >> Not in the water. No. No. >> Um, it's it has made people very uncomfortable. However, it's polling. It's one of the few areas where Trump is actually polling pretty well. people aren't as a gasast at this as they should be because they should be. Um I was there's a conservative site here in Alabama called 1819 and the editor of it who was who is a remarkable story. Quick story. U a former he had been in

[56:02] prison and cleaned up his life, got got his crap together and is now the uh uh you know the executive who runs 1819, but he came out with a with a tweet or an X or whatever it's called today and said that you know due process I mean yeah should due process but I mean not everyone deserves due process. I'm thinking this is a guy who went through a system that gave him due process. It seemed like >> and yes, actually that's the whole point of due process is that everybody does deserve due process. >> Yes. And so given that there's no due

[56:35] process, that there's no evidence, they they've get this administration has given us no no hard evidence that that these boats are indeed carrying drugs. Uh the New York Times did do a story on one of the ship one of the boats that had been blown up. And the guy he was a fisherman on, you know, in a crappy little town in Venezuela. Mhm. >> So to make some extra money, yeah, once in a while he'd move drugs. I'm not defending his moving his being a drug mule, but you know, it was once in a while. They had no idea if that ship they blew up of his at that time had

[57:05] drugs, had illicit drugs destined for American streets on it or not. And by the way, Ted, I mean, the other thing about this whole war on drugs and getting rid of these guys is that a it's never effective. It never it never slows things down very much. I mean, we had prohibition. We can look at that as the number one model of failure of the government trying to prohibit people from taking illicit illicit uh substances. And two, I mean, isn't the problem really Americans taking these drugs? I mean, that's the fact

[57:36] that there's a market for that in America. They're not shipping. >> But there's not even a market. They're not shipping these drugs to America. These drugs, um, you know, the US is suffering from a major drug problem. Uh, you know, the opioid crisis though is not the this they make cocaine. They send it to Africa. You know, they they send it to Trinidad. These boats are not coming to the United States and they're if they were, they'd be bringing cocaine, not fentanyl. Um, I mean, the point is the administration is lying about this. Uh, the president claims

[58:08] that every boat he blows up saves 25,000 lives. >> It's not saving any life. None. And if it were, it'd be saving African lives, not American lives. >> And yeah, and you know how much this Trump cares about African lives, especially Somali. >> Yeah, he loves them. >> Oh my god. Like there his own children. Um, >> by the way, says the second strike by admission was done blindly in the fog of war, amateur hour. Yeah. I mean, that's that's literally what what Hegat said. It was the fog of war. We couldn't see the

[58:40] target. Okay. But by definition, you're not allowed under the American rules of engagement >> to shoot something you can't see. So get your story straight. >> They they don't have it. The story is that Hexus was there and was trying to impress himself or was, you know, he was on his third martini, his his breakfast martini, and they saw this and he got, you know, excited and decided to wipe these guys out. It's egregious. It's a war crime. It's it's it's plain and simple. I'm sorry. You can, you know.

[59:10] >> Well, it's murder. >> It's Well, yeah. >> Oh, I love fuso. Fuso. Thanks for the dollar. If we were really serious about killing drug smugglers, we'd be bombing the CIA. Fair point. [laughter] Um, >> we know at least we'd know where to find them. >> Very good. Very good. No, if we really wanted to, I mean, we would be bombing Chinese ships headed for Mexico and we'd be d bombing Mexico. I mean, I don't But we're not. >> Well, that's true. Um, and that's something that producer Robbie has pointed out um, in the past. Um, hey, so

[59:41] we should talk about Trump's approval ratings in the minutes we have left. By the way, if you're joining us late, thanks for joining us. Please like, follow, and share the show. We're here Monday through Friday uh, here on Drogram uh, at 9:00 a.m. Eastern time. John Kuryaku is out today. He's attending a relative's funeral. He'll be back on Monday. Um, okay. So, um, you know, what's your what you would you want to handicap Hegat's career odds? Uh, is he still, you know, in this administration by Monday? >> Have there ever been I I'm trying to think in the first Trump, you know,

[1:00:13] version 1.0, was there ever an official who got in tr in trouble with the media and the general public who that then Trump jettisoned? I'm trying to think. I mean, there was um Secretary of Defense. I mean, I know secretary I mean, the attorney general uh former uh former senator from Alabama um Jeff Sessions, but he just because he refused to prosecute things in a way that Trump liked. So, he fired him. But I don't remember anyone like getting

[1:00:44] into this kind of trouble and then Trump saying, you know, he always doubles down on these guys. >> You know what, Scott? I got to I got to hand that to you. Um I was thinking that there was a better than 5050 chance of Hex Seth being removed, but you're right. you what you just said makes it lower than 5050 because Trump doesn't do that. He doesn't he doesn't cut people loose just because the the uh you know there's pressure from Congress or the media or from the voters. Uh he he only cuts them loose if they personally are disloyal or offend him personally.

[1:01:15] >> Yeah. >> Um no I I I think I like that. Okay. So um we need to talk um about Trump's polls. Uh yesterday on the DMZ America podcast, you and I uh were joined by a pundit. We we were handicapping the midterm elections. Uh new polls just came out after that. Currently 55% disapprove of Trump's u job performance. He's down to 42%. These are Bidenike levels. Not good. Um his biggest loss is among the place where he had had his

[1:01:47] biggest wins that brought him to power among independents. 31% approve of still approve of Trump independence, but that's down from 41% just five months ago, Scott. Um, that's a pretty significant fall, isn't it? >> It's the economy. I mean I mean I I hate to drag this old trope out, but it really is the economy, stupid. The economy is performing badly. And as we touched on at the top of this of this hour, um, you can't Trump can't just dismiss it

[1:02:17] and say everything's fine. I'm not hurting. I can afford things. Um, you know, you can't dismiss the American consumer's pain and they are going through some significant pain right now. You go to the grocery store, I go to the grocery store and we buy stuff and you know, you've just dumped 130 bucks on one bag of groceries and it's not like we're buying filet minan and anything. It's like, you know, >> potato helper or whatever the hell we eat. I don't even know. Um but [laughter] um the fact that you can't you have to

[1:02:48] address inflation first of all you have to admit it's happening and you have to address it in a serious way and this administration is in no way shape or form is doing that and they and you can't fix it quickly. You know Trump tried to drop the the tariffs the Trump taxes on uh food items and it hasn't really had an appreciable effect. Have you gone Ted? You're you're you're French. I'm French. We like beef very much. >> We And um have you gone have you have you looked at the price of beef lately? >> It is crazy. Uh it Yes. It reminds me a

[1:03:20] lot of uh this old Mike Peters cartoon from the inflationary period in the 1970s uh and uh a person goes into a butcher shop and uh the and the butcher is like we would when you put like to put that steak on layaway. We also [laughter] >> Yeah. You guess take a guess. I'm not sure if you've looked um stew me stew beef you know for stew for chili you know this is not the best cuts you know guess how much >> 10 bucks a 10 10 bucks a pound for the

[1:03:51] shitty stuff >> yeah yeah the good stuff is like 20 25 >> well okay so getting back to your question the American people are seeing this they're not seeing gas prices budge I mean I think 250 seems not outrageous price for gasoline in the 21st century America but he promised that those prices would come down They haven't. >> No. >> Um, and they're looking at this guy who's spending an awful lot of time blowing up boats and, you know, threatening and trying to garner peace between uh Djibouti and Somalia or

[1:04:22] whatever the hell he's on today. Um, that that's hurting him. I think that is absolutely the gist and the crux of what his where the problem is. >> East. Yeah. The like literally as we I'm glad you brought this up, Scott. So, I mean, lest anyone think you're joking, Trump literally just announced his latest agreement between Congo and Rwanda. So, I guess >> Democratic dem the Democratic Republic of Congo. Two different Congo, by the way. >> Yeah, there are two different Congo. So, but this is the big one. Uh, formerly

[1:04:53] Zire, right? Um, and you know, uh, I can't help but note the fact that this is of great interest because Eastern Congo be full of blood diamonds, right? So, uh, lot and lots of other rare earth minerals and blah blah. >> Not gold leaf because that would be then we'd be at war with them. >> Well, that's all the all the gold leaf has now been used. It's all on the wall at the at the Oval Office. >> Oh my god, Ted. It looks like And so it looks like a French house. It is a It is

[1:05:24] egregious. And now they have the sign outside that in gold calligraphy that says the Oval Office. Have you seen this? >> No, I have not seen that. And they have that the breezeway that goes from the residency to the Oval Office that now is the walk of the presidential walk of fame. >> Oh, is that with with the one with the with the Biden picture of the >> the auto we never talked about this because Ted and I are both cartoonists aesthetics matter to us but the official portrait of Trump now the

[1:05:54] >> Yeah. Well, he said he I I read that he like actually practic, you know, he actually is has silly expressions in private and he's very smiley, but he he on purpose when he's public, he said that he read a biography of Churchill and that Churchill always scowlled and so he feels that like to look like a tough guy, he always has to be, you know, like look like scowlly and mean. >> I'm just laughing at the idea of Donald Trump reading a book. Um, sorry. >> Yeah. [laughter] Well, maybe he he read

[1:06:25] about someone writing a book or something. [laughter] I don't know. Um, yeah. I mean, he's going to try to buy us off. You I know you're going to love this. Next time I see you, we'll talk about this, but Trump wants to give everyone 2,000 bucks each. So, he wants to I know you are hugely in favor of that sort of thing. >> Oh my gosh. >> As a fiscal conservative. >> Anyway, guys, thanks for tuning in and thanks for hanging out this week. Uh, you've been watching the program with Ted Roll and John Kuryaku with editorial cartoonist for the Chicago Tribune,

[1:06:55] Scott Stantis and my good friends sitting in. Uh, please stay tuned. The TMI show with me and Manila Chan is coming right up. Uh, Ruth Rumble, you just sit tight. It'll just go automatic on YouTube. You've got to actually make an effort and go look. Uh, we will be back Monday at 9:00 am here. John Kuryako will be back. And so, we're looking forward to all that. Scott, nice to see you. Have a great weekend. >> It was great. >> Bye.

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