Title: What Is Christian Zlonism Really? w/ CIA Whistleblower John Kiriakou
Show: Jay Dyer
Date: 2026-07-14
URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOR8hDNHx3U
Duration: 1474

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[00:01] Evangelical Christianity is also an arm of Zionism and also an arm, I would argue, of the American Pentagon or deep state. There's a lot of history that goes into missionaries being used and recruited for intelligence work or all kinds of stuff. Other countries such as Russia, for example, ban groups like Jehovah's Witnesses or things like Scientology because sometimes [music] they're cut out, sometimes they're used for that stuff. So part of what defines rebbitic Judaism is actually their anti-Christian stance. Wait a minute.

[00:33] Why are we supposed to do whatever Israel says? What what does that have to do with American foreign policy? Jay, one of the most important issues on the international stage right now is the issue of the everexpanding, everinccreasing number of Jewish settlements in traditionally Palestinian lands, especially of course in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. There was an article in Harets about a week ago

[01:04] saying that by Christmas of this year there will be no Christians left in Nazareth. There have been Christians in Nazareth for more than 2,000 years and they'll be gone. Bethlehem is another traditionally Christian city. Before that, a village that will soon no longer be Christian. And that may account for the reason why there are so many Palestinian Christians in the United States. They've been

[01:34] forced out. Do you see any way to reverse this trend? Or is the US government allin to help the Israeli government push religious minorities out of the Holy Land? >> That's a great and difficult question. I think the key uh locus of change would have to be waking up more and more people to the problems of Christian Zionism. That's something that we focused a lot on on my channel in the

[02:05] last several years. And you know, so many people in the Bible belt in the in the Midwest, they've really been captive to this false ideology, which makes them think that they have a religious duty to support a modern atheist socialistic nation state. That was really sort of the experiment you could say of the British Empire and of even before that Rothschild interest to sort of set up a pilgrimage site which eventually become a tool a geopolitical tool of the British Empire. So there's really nothing explicitly Christian about it. And the more that you go into historic

[02:35] Christianity prior to modern evangelicalism, there's even less support for any idea of a nation state of Israel or some sort of Zionist state that we have a duty to support. So I think if we can really rest away from the mindset, the grip that this idea has on so many people in America and the Bible belt, we'll probably be a lot better down the road at least in terms of removing this subversion. This foreign subversion is really what it is. And it's been entrenched for so long that it's really difficult to get rid of

[03:07] it. But beyond that, I think you know beyond the theological side of it, there's the more geopolitical power influence of you know control of foreign policy which has really probably been there for decades beyond past even you know the time of desert storm and all that kind of stuff. I think we had we were doing Israel's bidding probably before that even and I think you can demonstrate that. So if we can continue to battle within the political sphere, there's at least in the last couple years, as you know, there's been a huge rift within MAGA for those who are

[03:40] beginning to wake up to this and those who are, I would say, still agents of subversion and influence. So if we can continue to really push that that rift, I think we can see some change. >> I I'm glad that you brought that up because that was one of the things I wanted to jump into right away. Alan Dersuitzitz, the the famous maybe infamous professor emeritus of law at Harvard University and the mentor to Senator Ted Cruz once said that Ted Cruz was the smartest student that he ever had. But then in a recent interview that

[04:13] I know, right? I got to I got to chuckle out of it, too. >> It's hard not to giggle at that one. Yeah. In a recent interview that that Ted Cruz had with Tucker Carlson, he was he was intellectually unprepared for the questions that Tucker had for him about these very issues. Now, I'm a little bit embarrassed to tell you that years ago, I was an adjunct professor of intelligence studies at Liberty University, which is the the biggest evangelical university in the world. I'm an Orthodox Christian like you are. I'm

[04:44] not evangelical, but they liked my position on they said that wasn't Christian and would I like to teach these classes. I said yes. I'm glad that I did. They were lovely people, but we had fundamental disagreements on the role of evangelical Christianity in the Middle East. I would posit that there is no role for evangelical Christianity in the Middle East because evangelical Christianity in my humble opinion is an arm of Zionism.

[05:17] And so I was never able to wrap my head around how these Christians or these these people who call themselves Christians with a straight face can tell you that they're doing the right thing by supporting Israel as it wipes out ancient Christianity. Do you have any response to that? How is it that they're able to justify this policy to themselves? Well, to quote John Hegy against you,

[05:49] John, it's the blood moons. The blood moons of Israel show us that Jesus is not the Messiah. I couldn't resist throwing in a John Haggy. John, >> oh boy. Oh, boy. >> I was raised Southern Baptist, so I understand the mindset and I can tell you that for many of the people in that that millu, it simply doesn't occur to them to think or question that way. They've never thought about >> what was Christianity like in the first 500,000 years of the church. What is the

[06:20] history of Christianity in the Middle East? For most Bible belt, you know, evangelical-minded people, as you would know from being at Liberty, I mean, it's just sort of a question they've never even entertained. And when I was 18 or 19, I remember buying my first Bible that I bought on my own that wasn't given to me by a Sunday school or whatever was a prophecy study Bible. I remember buying it at a Christian bookstore and I read it. I thought, oh, we're supposed to, you know, just sort of default support modern nation state of Israel because it's all this biblical prophecy stuff. And, you know, we saw Trump a week or two ago saying, you

[06:52] know, bless those that bless Israel. I will bless those. We have all have a duty. Everybody has to support Israel no matter what. >> But that's all false, right? Because every one of the church fathers 100% consistently across the board, all of those very people who put the Bible together, they were unanimous in their interpretation. Like St. Paul in Galatians 6, the church is the spiritual Israel. So really, it would be a kind of Judaizing move to go retrograde, to go back to the sort of Old Testament mindset and to go back to what you said

[07:23] about the persecution of Christianity and sort of stamping it out in those cities. People need to understand, which I didn't understand when I was an evangelical Zionist, that rebbitical Judaism actually pronounces curses on what they call the menm. The menm are the Christians. And this goes back to the second third century when there was this fissure between Judaism at that time which was still protorebinic Judaism and Christianity going their separate ways and part of what defines rabbitic Judaism is actually their

[07:53] anti-Christian stance. So that's what the attitude actually is. And if we understand that, you know, I think most Bible belt people think Islam as a threat to the west. And I think that it is as I've studied Islam in depthly the last 10 years or so. But they don't understand that it's the same idea, same ideology, perhaps even more vicious within the Talmudic and Rebbitic teachings that really require serious practitioners of Judaism to use any means necessary really to to get rid of

[08:24] Christianity. So yeah, everything you said is correct, but I just simply think that that the people in the Bible belt probably just never even entertained these these types of questions >> with this expansion of of settlements with, you know, war against Iran with well, it's not just against Iran. It's against Lebanon, it's against Syria, it's it's against, you know, Christians in the in the West Bank. What do you think of the notion that's floating around now that the Israelis

[08:56] have been emboldened to the point where they might even consider attacking or dismantling the Al Axa mosque in order to then build the third temple which they believe they are religiously driven to do that they've been commanded by God to do. Is that something that we should expect to see? >> It's definitely a possibility. I think that, you know, if you study the history of Israeli operations, the MSAD, I'm certainly no expert. I've just read some books on it over the years, I don't

[09:26] think they would be at all beyond doing some sort of false flag or something like that. It's very plausible, you know, how they would go about that or how that might happen. You know, they could just simply say that Iran shot a missile or something like that or could be a bomb goes off, blame it on whoever. That's certainly a possibility. And I think that again like you were saying with our previous audience of the sort of evangelical-minded people, they don't understand that there's the evangelical Zionist idea of the end times and you have to kind of allow this stuff to

[09:58] happen and Israel can do whatever it wants because they think this will further sort of the return of Christ and the rapture and the, you know, final millennium and all this kind of nonsense. But there's also the rabbitic idea which is split between whether or not they have to be in the the promised land and build the temple before the Messiah comes or the other Orthodox Jews that think that they're not supposed to be there because the Messiah hasn't come. That's really a minority of them. So I think that yeah, there's a there's definitely a possibility that they could engage in some type of a false flag for

[10:30] sure. I mean, Israel would has a history of using false flags just like many nations have. So absolutely. >> Yeah. help me understand the ideology of evangelical Christians especially in the United States because a lot of these these beliefs you mentioned for example the rapture the rapture is a late 19th century you know British American Protestant development it it doesn't appear anywhere in in the Bible or the ancient writings etc I was talking to

[11:01] the daughter of a friend of mine who is an evangelical Christian and has volunteered to go overseas and do some missionary work. I asked her where she was going and she said, "North Macedonia." I said, "Why?" She said, "Why not?" I said, "Because they're already Christian. Why aren't you going to Africa, right? Or go to the Middle East somewhere." And she looked at me like I had two heads. Because an Orthodox Christian is not a real

[11:31] Christian, right? I mean, isn't that what they're led to believe these days? >> Absolutely. And to tie that in just briefly with what you mentioned earlier on, the idea that evangelical Christianity is also an arm of Zionism and also an arm, I would argue, of the American Pentagon or deep state. There's a lot of history that goes into missionaries being used and recruited for intelligence work for all kinds of stuff. Other countries such as Russia, for example, ban groups like Jehovah's

[12:02] Witnesses or things like Scientology because sometimes they're cut out. Sometimes they're used for that stuff. So, it's not just a matter of persecuting religious groups. It has to do, as you would know, with espionage. So, there's that angle, too, which the US uses a lot of these evangelical groups for what it calls soft power to try to promote American ideology in other countries. This was used heavily in the Ukraine, used heavily in the Cold War. There's giant historical, you know, scholarly texts on that. But beyond that, I think you're right that for the

[12:33] evangelical mind, I don't think they would see these groups as really Christian. So, they're just sort of nominally Christian or Christian in name. Funny you said, I was actually on a evangelical guys podcast the other day and he was saying, "I come from Lithuania. Everybody's nominally Christian, but in in America, I really found evangelical true Christianity." And I just thought that was I was like, well, but but what makes that true? And he's like, well, I had this experience, right? So, it's it's very experiential and emotionally based. It's not actually based in sort of ritual and tradition

[13:04] and history. There's a lot of emotivism involved in that sort of evangelical Bible thumping, you know, Billy Sunday style revivalist stuff that goes back to, you could say, America's founding with Puritans and the New Light and all that. Anyway, your question though, I think was more so about why do we have to do this missionary work when they're already Christian? And I think it's just a defective and sort of ignorant view of Christianity and not understanding that a lot of this is geopolitics and a lot of this is groups being used and they

[13:36] don't even understand that they're being used. And that's a huge challenge. You're not I I've been talking about this for a long time and probably not going to convince a lot of people in the Bible belt that [laughter] that their churches are being used for Israeli foreign policy, but actually from the Tucker interview like >> Exactly. From the Tucker interview and the uh the Tucker interview, they're actually becoming more they're becoming more and more aware that like >> man, you know, Huckabe really had no idea what he was talking about and and Tucker really asked some pretty basic level questions and there's a lot of fumbling. So, this is causing quite a

[14:07] few people, I think, to at least maybe not get into the geopolitical stuff too heavy, but at least question, well, wait a minute, why are we supposed to do whatever Israel says? What what does that have to do with American foreign policy? And, you know, here's Trump doing pretty good things the second round and then suddenly everything is sort of going haywire once he's got to listen to whatever BB says. You know, one of the things that has always struck me about evangelicals and and their sort of religious political ideology is they

[14:38] believe they can force God's hand. >> Yeah. >> By encouraging Jews to to move to Israel, for example, right? Because the Messiah can't come back until all the Jews have returned to Israel. But it they just don't get that it's not up to man to make that decision and to force God's hand. They really believe that this is something that they can accomplish and that's why they won't even engage you in a conversation about the rightness or the wrongfulness of a policy like that.

[15:08] >> Yeah. You know, it's funny I because I actually challenged quite a few proponents of this over the last year or two years to a public debate. I had some back and forth with Desh D Suza who's who's a massive Christian Zionist and of course he would not do it. He declined multiple times. some of the other big evangelical megaurch pastors, I tried to reach out and get get them to have some kind of engagement or discussion. And of course, none of them would actually do it. So, it was really surprising to me that Huckabe were actually willing to to do that interview because it's almost

[15:39] like they were I mean, it's like they live in another reality almost, right? And I say that because I grew up with Baptist pastors and I think Mike Cuckabe in that interview, he came off as the archetypal Baptist pastor that that I grew up with. And so to see that kind of an archetype, you know, really just sort of fumble and just sort of melt in the midst of that basic level of questioning was a huge blow. I don't think that those questions are ever asked by by the evangelical mindset, but I'm glad that

[16:11] they're being forced to to ask these questions now because it's really, as you know, these are the types of things that can really undo the country. Yes. >> Right. Without a doubt. It's it doesn't mean that if we don't do Israeli foreign policy that we have to suddenly hate people everything is always cast in a propaganda way in a false dialectic of oh if you don't support whatever BB says then you must >> hate all Jews or something like that that's a false dichotomy that's a nonsequ doesn't follow that because I don't want to do their foreign policy that I hate them but it's just not

[16:41] rational it's not Christian it's not sensible it's ahistorical and like you said you the whole rapture ideology was really invented and pushed by famous Zionists in America like Samuel >> Unto Meer. >> He was a huge part of why Scoffield was able to get that whole movement and idea going throughout the Bible belt. And you know, you being Orthodox, you know, you don't you don't you don't think about it like a Baptist thinks about it like where you grow up just reading this

[17:11] book. and sort of the book is sort of the the end all beall and you don't even think about well who put the book together >> and what's the history behind the book right and then when you start asking those questions a lot of times as as I did in my 20s it tends to lead you out of the the Baptist mindset and you begin to also realize well maybe this recent escatological view of the rapture and the the millennium and all that maybe that's a new teaching maybe that's not actually a biblical ancient teaching and when you realize that you know one of the most powerful verses and I know you

[17:43] this doesn't have to be a big theology chat but in Matthew 21:43 Jesus gives a parable and he says to the Jews to the Pharisees he says the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation producing the fruits thereof the nation there being I think the gentile and Jewish church that was soon to emerge >> which would supplant and really be the fulfillment of what the flesh nation state of Israel was and I remember reading that as an evangelical Zionist and I thought man Uh this really doesn't work with my theology of when Jesus

[18:15] comes back, he'll set up that earthly kingdom in Israel and we have to do what the nation state of Israel wants because that's God's chosen people. Jesus is simply literally saying, "No, no, in this first advent, this kingdom is taken from you. It's not your possession anymore. It's the church." >> I want to ask you about an article that was published in the New York Times a couple of weeks ago. Um, it was a fascinating piece to me and it was it was essentially something that we Orthodox already knew that there were more conversions from

[18:47] evangelical Protestantism in the United States to the Orthodox Church than to any other denomination or any other faith. And primarily that's because people are searching for tradition, right? They're they're searching for something with a history. If you're Orthodox, you've known that all your life, especially the Antiochan Orthodox Church or or the Orthodox Church in America. There are in in many parishes majority converts that that make up the

[19:20] parish. It's a wonderful thing. That's not how the New York Times meant it. The New York Times meant it to be that this was something that we should be worried about because these converts to orthodoxy are very conservative and some of them are extremely right-wing or alt-right and they believe, God forbid, they believe in a traditional home where the woman doesn't work outside the home and other silliness through this

[19:50] article. A similar article was published in 2005 that didn't have all the negatives attached to it, but they were saying, you know, this Orthodox church is something that's very appealing to people who feel like they're missing something in evangelical Christianity, especially in the United States. Why do you think that there was this push back against orthodoxy by a mainstream outlet like the New York Times? Why wouldn't they have just why wouldn't they have presented this as, hey, there's

[20:22] something interesting going on in the religious community in America? Here's what it is. Why was this something that we should fear? The establishment left in America and particularly through the outlets like New York Times or and even the fake conservative outlets. I've been approached a lot of DMs from Wall Street Journal, the these types of organizations that have reached out to say, "Hey, you know, you end up doing a lot of these debates. I'd like to talk to you about why orthodox is growing and this and that." There's probably been five of 10 of those over the last

[20:54] several years. And I always say no because I know that they're going to write a hit piece and try to say yes, but I'm a follower of, you know, Tiny Mustache Man, even though I critique eugenics and that whole ideology all the time. So, I tend to just assume that they're going to be hit pieces. And I did see what you're talking about. And I think that, you know, from the vantage point of the establishment, they're always interested in what the intellectual currents are, what the reaction will be to the prevailing status quo. And so they're probably looking to see what the trend is and why is this trend happening, who who's the

[21:24] voices of this. So I think they're probably figuring out who to target, who to try to take down, who to, you know, make look bad. And they always default to the same really weak ad homonyms that just don't work anymore. I mean, they used to work 20 years ago if mainstream media said somebody was a bad person. But now that the establishment defends the most degenerate practices, you know, harming children with cutting off their nobody perceives them to have a moral high ground anymore. So, I just don't think it's effective. It doesn't work

[21:54] like it used to. The same with calling everybody anti-semitic for critiquing Zionism or or Israeli foreign policy. It's lost its power, which is something that, you know, Twitter has helped to affect in the last couple years. >> Yes. >> Um, and it's and it's funny because, you know, there's that old interview with Victor Ostroski who wrote, you know, by way of deception. He's on YouTube and he's like 20 years ago or 30 years ago saying at the at C-SPAN, he's like, "Yeah, it's a trick we use, you know, if you somebody says something you don't like, you just call them anti-semitic."

[22:24] So, anyway, that's the reason why they're doing it is to make us look bad. But it doesn't work. But also, I think that like you said, the internet is forcing people to ask questions that they probably never would have asked, >> especially the younger you go. Now, there's downsides obviously to Gen Z, Gen Alpha, spending all their time on the internet. But there's also perhaps some upsides, which is that quite a few of them are beginning to ask questions and find answers a lot quicker >> than boomers or Gen X could even

[22:54] imagine. For example, I remember somebody I forget it was I was reading somebody. They were saying that basically, you know, what a what a CIA section chief would have spent months trying to, you know, find sources for and and and get collated information to pass on to somebody in the 1970s, 60s or 70s, you can basically collate that information and get those answers within a few minutes nowadays. So, it's like, and I know there's downsides to AI. I'm not touting AI. I'm just saying that if you know what you're doing, you can

[23:25] really find solid answers. And so people, the younger you get, the more people are saying, "Well, wait a minute. Why are we supposed to just do whatever Israel says?" This question is still mind-boggling to most boomers, especially evangelical boomers, right? Yeah. >> This is just you just don't even ask that. It's not even a question. What's within the domain of what types of questions can be asked. >> So I think the younger you go, the more radical the questioning is and it's more normative. And so there's a quickening amongst that group to see the lack of

[23:55] foundations for a lot of the evangelical ideas, whether it's the Zionist dispensational end time stuff or whether it's no tradition, no liturgy, no history, just sort of, you know, Billy Bob Baptist, strip mall, do it on your own type of church. I think people are really quickly seeing through a lot of the flimsiness of the foundations. Hallelujah.

[24:30] Hallelu [music and singing]
