Title: Charlie Kirk's Story Crumbles — Iran
Show: Dialogue Works
Date: 2025-10-11
URL: https://youtu.be/4V5GlZ4IodQ
Duration: 45:00

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[00:05] Hi everybody. Today is Saturday, October 11th, 2025 and our dear friend John Gri who is back with us. Welcome back, John. >> Thanks so much for having me, Nemo. It's good to see you again. >> John, I want to start with the case of Charlie Kirk. We can say today almost everything every story they put out so far is falling apart. What is in your opinion when you look at

[00:36] the case of Charlie Kirk? What is the problem with the government? I I would say with the security with intelligence that how is that because this is a huge bug. If you try to make his story and you put it out, you know the text messages between Charlie Kirk and his partner, you know those text, you read them, it's something like 1950s, someone in those days talking, two people are talking to each other. It's

[01:06] it's so much you know unbelievably can childish. Look at all these stories coming out and falling apart mean debunked by the podcasters, you know, by the analysts like Larry Johnson that we have it on. We have him on every every week and he said that it's not possible being shot but that particular rifle at that distance and the bullet just stucking in

[01:39] the neck of Charlie Kirk not getting out from the other side. What is your take on what has happened during this assassination and in the aftermath specifically in the aftermath in the aftermath of the assassination of Charlie Kirk and the stories that they're trying to convince the public opinion with them. >> First Nema I want to preface it my response by saying that I am not a conspiracy theorist. I am the least conspiratorial

[02:10] of anybody I know. I generally think conspiracy theories are just stories that people come up with to fill gaps that they either investigatively or intellectually can't can't uh cover. With that said, I think Larry Johnson's right. We're not getting the story here. Uh let's look at the gun. The gun was a 30 odd six, right? older gun, iron uh sights, not a scope,

[02:43] iron sights. Is it possible for the kid that's been accused of killing Charlie Kirk to make that shot? It's possible, but with a 30 odd six, there's no possible way it's going to lodge lodge in the neck. It should have blown the the left half of his head off by going through the neck, coming out the backside and taking out everything that it hit. But it didn't.

[03:14] Um, another issue is is the escape. First of all, how how is it even possible that he was able to get up onto the roof of the uh the closed being renovated student center uh undetected. I find that hard to believe. But while carrying a 30 odd six rifle, we heard a lot after the the killing that he took it apart quickly. Now we

[03:47] know that he didn't take it apart. It was found intact in the woods. So then what? He shot Charlie Kirk and then somehow miraculously got off the roof of the building and had nobody see him carrying a rifle as he was running away. There are so many questions here that the government isn't answering, that the authorities aren't answering, that of course people are going to come up with with different ideas and different scenarios. But another question I have

[04:18] that I think we haven't really asked ourselves yet is why is the FBI involved in the first place. Okay, this this killing was was in Utah, right? The shooter was from Utah. He alleged shooter. He left his home in Utah and drove to the site of the crime which was in Utah. There was no crossing of state lines. There was literally nothing to

[04:49] federalize this case. So why in the world did the FBI run to Utah to take over the case? It's not a federal case. And it just makes me think that there's some sort of cover up of foot here. And like you said, and you said correctly, every time we're presented with with a plausibility, it falls apart under scrutiny. And

[05:20] listen, if if podcasters like me, like I can poke holes in the state and the FBI's investigation, then they should be ashamed of themselves. Then we know that the official story is not what really happened. John I think anything happens in my opinion one of the basic reasons for any

[05:51] engineer for anyone who has learned mathematic would say quib bono who's going to benefit from that >> who's because you know even we if we assume that something internal has happened in the United States why did the authorities I'm talking about Donald Trump himself and his vice JD Vance he did they didn't come out and saying something to bring all the people from all the sections factions of the

[06:22] society together their argument Donald Trump first comment on the assassination he was the far left it's the you know the radicals they're doing this and Net came out these are is Islamists doing this how can you understand that how can you imagine ing that it seems we have some sort of issue with John's connection. He's in Mexico and he

[06:52] has a weak connection. Yeah, he he came back. >> Yeah, sorry about that. >> Um, yeah, I I heard your uh I heard your question and and it's a good one. Why why didn't uh the White House try to bring people together and Quibono? Let's look at Quibono first. Who benefits? There are a lot of different factions that benefit, frankly. On the one hand, um, as crazy as it might sound, Charlie Kirk's murder,

[07:38] John, we don't hear you. John, can you hear me? Yeah, the same sort of problem. Yeah, so sorry for that. But this is a problem with the internet connection that John has right now. But he's gonna be back and

[08:08] we have to deal with that for the time being. Yeah. >> I apologize, Neiman, and I apologize to your viewers. I'm in I'm in very rural Mexico on the southern tip of the Baja Peninsula and there's just no connectivity down here. Anyway, getting back to your point, >> Quibono, >> so both people and and groups on both the right and the left benefit from this. On the one hand, the right gets a martyr to the point where there have

[08:41] been congressional bills sponsored just in the past several weeks to make a Charlie Kirk coin commemorative coin but in the National Mint uh to there was a a bill this week that this past week that was sponsored to build um a Charlie Kirk memorial statue on on the campus of every state university in America. It's it's insanity. Uh on the other hand, a silent charlie Kirk benefits the left

[09:14] because Charlie Kirk was was bringing a lot of people, a lot of young people into con the conservative movement and the Republican party. And if you're a Democratic party that doesn't really have a program or a policy or strategy, then that's a very dangerous thing. I I I want to believe that it's not possible for somebody in my government to be so evil as to

[09:45] assassinate a pri a private citizen or any citizen uh for the purpose of squaltching political debate. But I mean, we've we've seen what's happened in the United States over the years. Of course, there are people that are willing to do that. I I just hope that it's not I hope we're wrong about this, Nema. I hope that there was not a conspiracy. I hope that everything is finally explained and that it was this kid, this Tyler Johnson, I think his name was, whatever whatever his name is. I hate to even honor him by

[10:16] using his name. Um >> but Robinson. >> Yeah, that's right. John, what is I think many people who are arguing right now I'm reading the comments here. They're talking about the MSAD, Israel being behind this, but curious what is the reason that people go in that direction because they see that Israel is in a desperate situation in terms of the public opinion in the United States

[10:48] and Charlie Kirk was one of the main important characters even with the election with the Trump's presidency. He helped a lot during the Yeah, that's why they they feel that if Charlie K has decided to leave Israel and pro-Israel cause that could be a reason for Israel to go after him, you know, and there were many issues with that. We we I had Max Blumenthal on this show and he mentioned each and every detail and

[11:19] these people who are supporters of Israel and they did everything to make them suspicious about what has happened during the assassination. What is your understanding? What is behind this sort of feeling on the part of the people and maybe broader issue with the case of Israel? Yeah, Max Blumenthal is a friend of mine and I'll tell you what, he's one of the most brilliant people I've ever encountered. He is able to put these

[11:50] pieces of a puzzle together in a way that almost no one else I know is able to do. Charlie Kirk throughout his life was one of the most pro-Israel, one of the most pro-Zionism figures uh on the American right until recently. Even Charlie Kirk began to take a stand against Israeli war crimes in in Gaza. You know, at the

[12:22] same time, there was a poll that was released this last week, Nemo. I'm sure that you saw it and I think it's very important. On October 7th, 2023, [Music] Americans supported Israel over the Palestinians by 46 percentage points. This week, Americans support the Palestinians by one percentage point over the Israelis. So, the Israelis are losing American public opinion and they're doing it very

[12:52] quickly. Well, if somebody as powerful, as respected as Charlie Kirk with a following the size of Charlie Kirks, decides to switch sides and support the Palestinian cause or Palestinian human rights, just human rights. That would be a serious problem for the Israelis. So, did the Israelis have have a reason for this to happen? You bet they did. Did they do it? I don't see it. But

[13:31] yeah, the same issue. He's going to come up. So sorry for that that it it happens. I can do nothing about it and we have to wait and he's going to join us in in a second. Yeah, he's here. >> Sorry, man. >> No, no problem. I tell you what, there's no hot water. There's no internet. There are bugs everywhere. I spend an hour just killing all the bugs that come into my room that one day to the next. It's tough gig.

[14:02] >> Yeah. When you look at the case of Charlie Kirk, do you think that the Republican party would be able to replace him? I'm I'm talking let's put it out let's let's put it out this way. I'm not talking about the Republican by the MAGA. Is he replaceable >> and with someone who would support Israel instead of what Charlie Kirk said because we've learned from the messages

[14:33] he you know he he had with his friends before the assassination 48 hours before the assassination he said that I'm done with Israel. I'm not going to support them anymore because of what has happened internally. You know those people donors of the movement they have decided $2 billion they have decided to withdraw their support for the movement TPUSA turning point USA and right after the assassination we've we we saw how Ben Shapiro came out and said

[15:07] I'm going to put out this you know amount of money to support you. How is that mo movement today in your opinion? Are they going to be able to continue the movement even without Charlie Kirk, which in my opinion was the center of the movement? >> Yeah, Charlie Kirk was the center of the movement. I agree. Um, you know, they have Ben Shapiro, they have Benny Johnson, they have a handful of other people. They're not Charlie Kirk. So, this is going to hurt. This is going to do damage. Donald Trump said that he

[15:39] would not have been elected to a second term were it not for Char Charlie Kirk. It was Charlie Kirk that brought young people voting for the very first time over not just to the Trump campaign but to MAGA as a movement. And so Charlie Kirk was one of those unique figures who who had a generational impact on American politics. Think of somebody like Martin Luther King or Robert F. Kennedy Senior.

[16:09] I I would compare his political power, his authority to those people. You know, I met him one time. He was a kid. He was 17 or 18 years old. Uh, I was working on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and he came with a group of Tea Party people, which was funny to me because I was watching them momentarily and I thought, you know what? It's that kid who's the leader. It's not any of the adults. This kid is

[16:40] the leader. And then they were going office to office lobbying for for tax cuts. And then um and then when it came time to leave, there was a press conference and he did the press conference, a 17-year-old kid. And I remember saying to a colleague of mine, "Boy, that that kid's going places, whoever he is." Like, who is he? Oh, his name's Charlie Kirk. I said, "I never heard of him. He's just a child." And he was leading a movement at the age

[17:11] of 17. That's why I I say that he was one of those whether you like him or not, whether you agree with him or not, and I found myself disagreeing with him on I don't know 80% of the issues, he was a born leader, and that was that was what his real service to the right and to the Republican party was. John, when it comes to the establishment of the United States, I really don't believe that the establishment is, you know, political. They're ideological

[17:43] and, you know, they don't belong to the right and left and all these movements that we see in the United States. But in the case of Charlie Kirk, do you think that [Music] how how what is your understanding of the policies of the establishment when something like Charlie Kirk happens, the the assassination of this guy? Because this is not something new for the United States. We had JFK, his brother, and we have many many cases. You you better you

[18:15] know better than anyone else. But these are huge these sort of assassinations make huge unrest within the society. And how what is your understanding of the establishment in these sort of moments that they have to are they you know how much they somehow involved in this sort of you know I I don't know if you understand what

[18:46] what I want to ask you. I think the establishment has a big has a a you know has a problem with what's going on in the United States. The establishment doesn't have the leverage that they had before because of Israel, because of the war in Ukraine, because of what's going on internally in the United States, because of Charlie Kirk himself, you know, >> how do they want to solve their problem to resolve their problems?

[19:17] Yeah, that's a very good question and it's a very very difficult one to answer. First of all, you're correct. Um, it's it's all about ideology. There are more Americans who call themselves independents than there are Democrats or Republicans. People ask me what political party I'm a member of. I am an independent independent truly but I'm I was a third generation Democrat.

[19:49] My grandparents came because of Franklin Roosevelt. Uh Democrats, you know, through the the Vietnam War. My parents were opposed to the war. They were supportive of civil rights. I left the Democratic party. Sorry about this connectivity. It's it it wants to work so much and it just doesn't seem to have the strength to do it. >> So, we've gotten to a point in the country

[20:20] where ideology is more important than than party politics. And it's making the parties crazy. They want so much to be able to make this a a two-party system again. Uh but they don't know how to do it. And they don't know how to do it because they're unwilling to address the issues, the kinds of issues that Charlie Kirk was raising. For example, point two is whether we like to admit it to ourselves or not, we have a very very

[20:51] violent society. I I served in Bahrain for two years. Two of the happiest years of my life. And the Amir of Bahrain at the time, Sheikh uh Isa bin Salman al- Khalifa was a very kind and generous man. He used to open up his beach house on the weekends for diplomats to go swim and your wives could wear a bikini and nobody would stare at them. And the Amir would always invite us over to have tea and

[21:30] time right after the Oklahoma City bombing got that attack. So the conventional wisdom was that some kind of Mus that it's not a Muslim who did this. And I said, "Oh, your highness, I say the same thing every day. It would be so bad for us, for all of us." And he said, "You know the thing about you Americans, you have an unusually violent society. even by Arab standards. He said, "You are accepting of violence that would be unacceptable in any other civilized country." And I

[22:03] didn't know how to respond to that because he was right. You know, oh, you don't like Charlie Kirk's uh uh talks, shoot him in the neck. You don't like uh Capitol Hill politics? Go to the Congressional Softball game and shoot as many members of Congress as you can. You want to make a political point about gun control, go into a school and open fire on children because the law is not going to change. Nobody's going to stop you. Nobody's going to ban guns. Nobody's going to

[22:34] make mandatory registration. Nobody's going to do anything. So, I think that the reason why people are falling away from the political parties is because the political parties don't affect change in any way. The American people really do want change. The parties aren't willing to do it. The parties are essentially two sides of the same coin. A lot of people disagree with me, Nemo, when I say this, but you know, I worked on Capitol Hill for years. I worked in the CIA for 15 years. Um, I

[23:08] served overseas for my country. I I've come to realize that there's really no major difference between the two political parties. You can you can tell that there are little differences around the edge, you know, maybe a little bit about abortion, maybe a little bit about the economy or taxes, but essentially these two parties are the same party, two sides of the same coin. And people are coming to realize that and they're tired of it. >> Yeah. Actually, what's happening right

[23:39] now? You see Marjgerie Taylor Green going with Democrats? It's unbelievable. >> A friend of mine tweeted yesterday, who she tweeted at Marjgerie Taylor Green and she said, "Who are you and what have you done with Marjorie Taylor Green?" I said to I said to a friend of mine just two days ago, I can't believe that I wake up in the morning, read the news, and agree with everything that Marjgerie Taylor Green is saying. What kind of crazy country have we become? I don't

[24:11] understand it. >> Yeah. Actually, she called what has happened in Gaza, she called it genocide before Bernie Sanders. you you know it's huge for those people who are criticizing the policies in in the Middle East in Palestine. >> Yeah, I I'm smiling because it's so ridiculous, but then at the same time it's also a clear indication of the current state of American politics. Listen, on my own podcast, my my old

[24:43] radio show, I used to make fun of Marjorie Taylor Green mercilessly. Mercilessly. But man, it's like every time she opens her mouth these days, she's right. And I find myself agreeing with her. >> It's just it's not just about her. It's about Tucker Carlson, Candace Owen. >> That's right. >> In my opinion, you look at, you know, Steve Bannon talking about if if you

[25:14] want to go if you want to expand the war in the Middle East, you Israel, you better go. you by yourself, we're not going to be there to help you anymore. We're not gonna >> and I think Donald Trump is understanding. Do you think that one of the main reasons that maybe I I don't know if because we can be pessimist about what's going on with the peace deal between the United States and Israelis on one side and Hamas and Middle Eastern countries

[25:44] on the other hand. But after all, do you think that if the deal is for real and Donald Trump wants to do something about it, is it because of the political pressure within the party within the base of MAGA? >> Yeah, I believe that's exactly what it is. Donald Trump has no love of Palestinians. He has no love of Islam or or of Arabs in general. Um but if if he really is the face of MAGA, MAGA is

[26:16] against foreign wars. It's against US intervention in foreign wars. And we're in this war up to our necks. Also, Donald Trump is obsessed with winning the Nobel Peace Prize. And if he can if he can bring peace even indirectly to Gaza with a deal that's acceptable to the Gazins, you know, maybe that gives him a chance at the Nobel Peace Prize. Um, a couple of other things, too.

[26:49] [Music] Where do I even begin? Yeah, >> Donald Trump Donald Trump can can go down in history as one of two things. He can go down in history as just like Richard Nixon did when he went to China as this cuttingedge leader in foreign policy. Or he can go down as Grover Cleveland, who was president in the late 19th century, served two non-consecutive terms, and

[27:22] nobody remembers who in the world he is. He wants to be the former. He wants to be that historic president who finally brought peace to the Middle East. I don't know if that's going to be the case or not. Um, another thing though too is is Iran. Iran plays a major role in this conversation. And I'm probably crazy for saying it. I've said it a couple of times, but I'll say it again. Just like Nixon was the

[27:53] only president who could go to China and finally make peace with the Chinese in 1972, maybe Trump is the only one who can go to Iran. And I don't mean literally physically go to Iran, but maybe go to Riad. and at the invitation of Muhammad bin Salman meet with President Peshki. Stranger things have happened through history but maybe now is when we can make a deal. And I want to make one other point. I think this is an

[28:24] important one. Benjamin Netanyahu went too far when he bombed Qatar. Too far. The Qataris are not just an ally of the United States. They are a major non-NATO ally. They have the same status as Bahrain, as Japan, as South Korea, as Australia, and we are compelled to protect them. Not just because they're major non-NATO allies, but because Qatar is the home of the world's largest air

[28:55] force base and it belongs to us. And so I can imagine that conversation between the Amir and President Trump saying, "What's wrong with you? We're friends. We're allies. We gave you this gigantic air base. We have great relations. We're friends. We just gave you a Boeing 747 for your own use and you allow the Israelis to bomb us." And so Trump had to go public and say

[29:27] the Israelis, you know, didn't give me enough time to warn the Gutis that was probably not true. And then when he was embarrassed after Netanyahu came out and said, "Oh, sure. I gave I gave Donald Trump two hours notice before I bombed Cutter," Trump realized that this could ruin everything. And I think that finally he came to the re realization that Israel acts in the national interests of Israel and the US must act in the national

[29:58] interests of the United States. >> There is nothing else that Donald Trump and the United States can do for Israel. I don't know how we've learned that the United States has spent since October 2023 they have spent more than $32 billion for the case of for Israel you know inside Israel sending weapons going to fight Yemenes you know the region >> and what has happened what was the outcome for Israel today what is Israel

[30:30] today are they because before just imagine what it was in the mind of the people in the Middle East. I'm talking about the Middle Eastern sort of view toward Israel. They thought that Israel is hugely you know the they their military is the technology of their military is above all and they cannot nobody in the Middle East can fight them and they thought that Israel cannot be defeated and Israel has you know looking

[31:01] at what Israel has done to Gaza. Yeah. Yeah. They destroyed everything. They committed genocide. That would be the legacy of Israel. >> Yes. >> You know, forever. >> Yes. >> I don't know how they can change that is not possible. >> No. >> Can we do something about Holocaust? And is it's not possible to to remove it from the history. >> No. It's done. They've they've done it. They've done it. >> They don't understand the gravity of what's going on with all these issues.

[31:33] Yeah, that's exactly right. They've they've carried out this genocide. It's it's in the history books now. And uh that you can't go back and take it back. You know, it's not an accident that all of these European countries plus Canada plus Australia um have recently recognized Palestine. They've done it because of the of the genocide, right? They've done it to put pressure on the Israelis. and the Israelis can't just pretend that it hasn't happened.

[32:03] Another thing too that I think we should all be afraid of, I think that the leadership of of the Israeli government, not just Netanyahu, but the likes of Smootrich and Bengavir and and these other right-wing extremists, extremists who have been convicted of of anti- Arab and anti-Muslim hate crimes, felonies, and who now lead the Israeli government. I think that they are crazy enough to use nuclear weapons.

[32:33] And so I think that should be our next great fear. By some accounts, the Israelis have between 200 and 220 million um forgive me 200 and 220 um nuclear warheads. I think we should believe them when they say that there's no way that they'll lose a war. I think that we should believe them when they threaten Iran with nuclear war. And so the only thing that's going to keep them from doing that is pressure, real

[33:05] pressure from the United States. I'm glad to see Donald Trump pressuring Israel right now, but I don't know if this is a one day or one week, you know, event or if this is going to be US policy. I want to add too, Nema, that I am colossally disappointed in the leadership of the Democratic Party. Some of them talk a good game. Most of them remain silent in the face of of this genocide in Gaza. But then when

[33:37] Netanyahu comes to the United States, they literally run. There are films of them running to the room where Netanyahu was appearing so they could take a picture with him. It makes me sick to my stomach to think of it. Another thing, too, and I think we're having an impact. Forgive me for personalizing this, but I think this is important. Um, I was mentioned in a in a publication this past week that I've never heard of before called the Middle

[34:08] East Forum. I was criticized by the political adviser to the Israeli foreign minister. He called me virulently anti-semitic. That first of all, that's one of the most ridiculous things anybody has ever said about me. It's it's just comical. Virulently anti-semitic. Okay. Anybody who doesn't tow the Israeli line 100% is an anti-semite. I get that that's the Israeli uh script right now. But he said

[34:40] that my position on Israel shows the rot that is taking hold in the intellectual class of the American left. I took that to be a compliment because to me that means people on the American political left, which is really a centrist position, uh people on the American left are finally coming around

[35:10] and seeing with open eyes what it is that the Israelis are doing to helpless Palestinians. You you destroy the entire Gaza Strip. You destroy every hospital. You destroy the electrical grid. You destroy the water treatment facilities. You kill 70,000, 100,000, 150,000 people, most of whom are women and children, almost all of whom are civilians. And you're proud of that?

[35:44] So, I'm proud at least to be a part of the rotting American intellectual left. I'm going to wear that as a badge of honor. Yeah, we know one of the main issues, one of the main issue for the Iranians during the first phase of the conflict between the two Iran and Israel was the as we talked about it before the counter intelligence on the part of Iranian being so weak and you know they had a

[36:16] huge network of spies in Iran. >> Huge huge bigger than anybody suspected. Yeah. Once something that big happens to a country, John, and they go after, you know, cleaning all these, you know, finding these people and, you know, do you think that Israel with that attack has just destroyed the the network they had in Iran or

[36:48] how big if they have something on in Iran as we talk today, how big That would be that the government in Iran can is not able to find them just to >> Yeah, sorry. I heard your question. >> So, um kudos first to the Israelis for this this counter inelligence um network that they had in Iran. it by all accounts it was thousands literally

[37:20] thousands of people reporting clandestinely back to the Mossad. Uh we know now this is what the Iranian government has turned up that many of these people thousands of people were Afghan refugees uh who were in uh in Iran um illegally or didn't have documentation and uh you know were probably offered the equivalent of you know $50 a month or $100 a month money well spent to just

[37:50] tell the Israelis where the nuclear scientists lived, where the generals lived, what time the generals left their apartment buildings in the morning to go to work of I mean all these little it's called the mosaic concept where you have just a little tile a little piece of information but then you put it all together at Mossad headquarters and you come up with an entire picture and that's what made Israeli targeting so much easier. The Iranians have broken up a lot of this. There have been some executions. There have been uh a handful

[38:24] of trials. There there have been imprisonments, but I would have to think that it's impossible to get all of them. That there are still people reporting back to the Israelis besides those those Israeli Mossad officers who are ethnic Persians and who speak Farsy without an accent and who are able to blend into Iranian society. This is going to be a very very difficult uh thing for the Iranian government to to dig these dig these

[38:55] spies up and uh and root them out. Uh but it's also something that the Israelis have been working on for years. This isn't something that that you implement overnight. It's a program that takes years to develop. And um and another thing too, this something that I think the Iranians should should um think about Uh the the Afghan refugees who were recruited by Mossad were not recruited by long-distance telephone call from

[39:27] Israel to Iran. They were recruited in person. There are people inside Iran today acting as spy masters and running these networks. And I guarantee you that the networks are compartmentalized. They are stovepiped. So, one network doesn't know what the other network is doing. One network doesn't know what the other network's uh orders or instructions are. Why? Because if one network is discovered and everybody is rounded up

[39:58] and arrested, they'll never tell what the other network is doing because they don't have any idea just in case they needed to fight against the Iranians and it worked out. The only thing that stopped the Israelis I think was if you listen to Donald Trump uh was because uh the US bombed uh bombed Iran on Israel's behalf. Donald Trump said that Benjamin Netanyahu said that if the

[40:30] United States didn't bomb the Iranian nuclear sites that the Israelis would use a nuclear a tactical nuclear weapon because they didn't have um a conventional weapon big enough powerful enough to destroy a deep underground site. But imagine if they had used a nuclear weapon that would change the world. The whole world would change if a nuclear weapon were to be deployed against Iran. And so the the Iranians have um

[41:01] a lot of work to do when it comes to trying to disrupt and dismantle this what appears to be an enormous Israeli intelligence operation on Iranian soil. We're not talking just about recruiting the random Iran nuclear scientist who goes to Europe for some seminar. We're talking about giant networks on the ground all across Iran. >> Yeah.

[41:32] >> John, to wrap up this session, do you feel that Israel would attack Iran? >> What's your take on that? >> If Israel wants to attack Iran and what would be because after all, we have to see if we want to answer this question in my opinion. You I want to hear your take as well. But what would be the outcome for Israel if they attack Iran for the second time? >> Yeah.

[42:10] Yeah. The same problem. He's going to be back just in a minute. In a sec. 10 seconds. Yeah, >> my my apologies, man. Just as I opened my mouth to answer the question, it it cut off. Um, the Iranians have exercised something that that everybody's calling strategic patience. Uh, honest to God, when when the Israelis first began

[42:42] attacking Iran, I think the whole world was surprised at how patient the Iranian government took its response to the point where the Iranian people were in the streets demanding that the government respond. I think the Iranian government

[43:12] Yeah, the same problem. He's going to come up. >> Sorry. I think that the Iranian government um did everything right in the way it responded to these Israeli attacks. But the conventional wisdom and I think this is probably correct. I'm sorry to say if you listen to Tita Parsy or Max Blumenthal or Larry Johnson or any number of of people who know these things, I would

[43:43] expect Israel to attack again. I think that we'll we're going to start seeing propaganda coming from uh the Israelis saying that the Iranians have already restarted their uh their nuclear program or they've begun rebuilding their nuclear sites or they're taking a shipment of uh you know gyroscopes or whatever. I I think I think we should expect to see something like that. I think that there will be another um Israeli attack and I think that the Iranians probably either will not strike

[44:16] back or will will do something symbolic like like drones again. And I think that is really the way to go. Now, with that said, I don't blame the Iranians for wanting to build a nuclear weapons program. They have to protect themselves. And if they're going to be constantly attacked by Israel, constantly bombed by Israel, then they're going to have to create a deterrent that is big enough, that is strong enough to really deter the

[44:49] Israelis. And you know, maybe they don't have to start from scratch. Maybe they get help from the Pakistanis or from the North Koreans. Who knows? But uh I I do expect another attack on on Iran. I just hope that the Iranians continue to be as patient as they have been so far. >> No, >> thank you so much, John, for being with us today. I know that we had some difficulties because of the connect. It wasn't your fault. It was the connection. Yeah. Thank you so much.

[45:20] >> Thank you. Thank you. Great to see you again. >> Yeah. See you soon. >> Have a great time, Jo. >> Thank you so much.
