Title: The Oily War of Drugs - John Kiriakou (DCC29)
Show: American Exception
Date: 2024-04-12
URL: https://youtu.be/tZ433hZpjOA
Duration: 59:00

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[00:01] [Music] something beside me a light to the kerosene and the places aren't real anymore and the faces don't say anything in the silent light of the Mind wind blown

[00:33] sphere it's a game Devil's chest [Music] C Devil's chest Crow greetings from Devil's chess club I'm Aaron good today my guest is former CIA officer and CIA torture whistle blower John kyaku we're going to be discussing Russia the Ukraine war the

[01:04] Moscow terror attack the Gaza genocide and the Zionist recent deadly attacks on Iran's Embassy in Syria and on American Aid workers and we're going to tie all this into bigger historical issues that the establishment would prefer us to forget the cia's covert operations and the ways the agency Advanced us imperialism by collaborating with drug traffickers Jihadi ha networks oil companies and the intelligence Services of us client states please check the

[01:37] show notes for a link to loud and clear John kaku's substack Page this episode of Devil's chess club is available to everyone courtesy of for died trying the new documentary film series which explores the extraordinary lives and cataclysmic assassinations of JFK Malcolm X Martin Luther King and Robert F Kennedy there is now a pat page for for Di trying it offers patrons a number of other perks including a new four di trying podcast and access to the

[02:07] newest film chapter one the world as it was which is also coming soon to other major streaming platforms John Kaku great to have you back thanks for having me happy to do it so you are a former CIA officer and your some of your expertise was in the Middle East and I think that makes you well suited to comment on some of these things that that we've been working on on the on the American acception podcast

[02:38] and here on uh we've been discussing it on Devil's chess club also I want to first see what you think about some of the recent events with uh going on with Israel in this Gaza Gaza I don't want to call it a war this massive Slaughter genocide whatever we want to call it and one of these comes from moon of Alabama post uh that came out today were're recording this on April 8th and they say two Israeli actions misfired pushed Netanyahu into Retreat and he he's a wise guy misspelling netanyahu's name

[03:10] that way but I'll forgive him for that um he says there's serious signs that the Israeli government under pressure from the US is moving towards an intermediate ceasefire state that all sides may be able to live with for a while at least this is split the Netanyahu government and mayw well in the Coalition which supports it which I think is quite plausible considering the war seems be the only thing keeping him afloat uh after six months operations in Gaza uh Israeli government has achieved none of its objectives Hamas isn't defeated the hostages haven't been released there's no plan for who's going

[03:42] to rule Gaza in the future so it's been kind of a disaster what what is your take on the on this on what what this guy's saying that these blunders recently the two big ones he's talking about which I didn't put in this but it's we're talking about the killing of those Aid workers and then the attack on the Iranian Embassy which is not just a violation of the you know Geneva or the Vienna conventions VI convention it's it's worse than that yeah what do you because I think it's a pro it's a provocation which is they a

[04:13] war yes that's that's the only motive that makes any sense and so what do you what do you make of of this do you think that this is really going to be something that sticks because just the logic of it it makes no sense for really Israel or the US to keep persisting in this way yeah I have a couple of thoughts uh first of all he's right that there are real signs that the Israeli government may not survive this Benny gance the former Defense Minister who's now a member of the Israeli War cabinet was in Washington a week ago two weeks

[04:44] ago and um he reportedly told um senior American officials including uh Secretary of Defense lyd Austin and Secretary of State Tony blinkin as well as the um the National Security adviser that he was ready to pull out of the war cabinet and he was ready to withdraw his party uh the blue and white party from the emergency Coalition that in and of itself would be enough to crash the government now one of the reasons why

[05:16] Netanyahu does not want that to happen besides the obvious that he wants at least some semblance of national unity in order to continue fighting this thing um is that if Netanyahu is no longer prime minister he is again liable for prosecution on multiple uh felony corruption indictments and and he's not the only one who's been indicted his wife has been indicted for corruption as well so he has his own selfish reasons for wanting to keep this war going as long as possible because it protects him

[05:47] politically um to the second Point uh I think that this uh that this attack on Gaza and the wholesale Slaughter of civilians which really is is what we're seeing was a catastrophic mistake for Netanyahu for a couple of reasons number one and and moon of or Moon of Alabama says it right here there's no viable plan who if not Hamas will in future rule the Gaza Strip that is absolutely correct Joe Biden made a

[06:20] made a a stupid statement several weeks ago saying that US policy is that the Palestinian Authority would um run the Gaza Strip that is a nonstarter from before you can get the rest of the sentence out of your mouth in Gaza they hate the Palestinian Authority it's corrupt it's weak it's ineffective and it's wholly in the pocket of the Israeli government besides that Mahmud Abbas is

[06:51] something like 18 years into a four-year term and so nobody wants him nobody literally no nobody wants it um if anything it's Hamas that would be elected to lead the West Bank you mean if it was Democratic if there was a democratic election to be held in in Palestine so that's just a nonstarter uh now getting to the point about the uh the bombing of the Israeli

[07:22] Consulate in Damascus I think that the Israelis gave that a lot of forethought I think that the only only way the Israelis see themselves winning this thing is in something like a Samson scenario where you know going house to house and mowing down Palestinians and bulldozing their homes and flattening Gaza that's that's not really Gonna Win It win it for them they still have the West Bank to worry about and

[07:53] Palestinians are united of course and so I think that the Israelis think that if they can draw in the Iranians and hisbah maybe the syrians too it would give them reason to perhaps use nuclear weapons or to raise the stakes in this conflict to a point that we've never even considered before crazy dangerous not just for the region but for the whole world but I

[08:23] think that that's what the Israeli calculus is you know look at what the Israelis are doing too there's no turning back from what they've already done it's not just about ground troops and hostages it's about for example you and I are talking on Monday the 8th of April uh on Saturday the 6th of April CNN reported that Israeli doctors told haret

[08:56] the big Israeli newspaper that they are now doing an inordinate number of amputations because Palestinian prisoners are being cuffed for as long as six months can you imagine you've been handcuffed since October and now you have to have your hands removed there was another report again from Israeli doctors to haret that Palestinian prisoners are being brought into the hospital they're being asked which limb they prefer to

[09:28] keep and then the other one is crushed in a vice and then amputated okay that's that's clearly obviously a crime against humanity you can't do things like that it's illegal it's barbaric and they're doing it anyway and this isn't you know some Palestinian blogger who's saying this this is Israeli doctors telling harits well I think that this is just the beginning of what the Israelis

[09:59] intend to do to the Palestinians I think we haven't seen the the the ultimate in Israeli uh barbarism against prisoners I was speaking with a with an Israeli activist an Israeli human rights activist a week ago and he said that a Palestinian uh colleague of his was just released from prison an Israeli prison and he said that since October the 7th Israeli I'm sorry uh Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons have not not been permitted to walk if you can

[10:32] imagine they're only permitted to crawl on their hands and knees and he said that they've gotten to the point many of them where they Envy the Gaza Palestinians because they're dying and that death is preferable to what's happening inside Israel's prisons there's just no excuse for what's happening yeah I mean I to my mind the only only thing you can compare it to with a mechanized modern

[11:02] industrial nation state carrying out this kind of you know primitive Slaughter is Nazi Germany I mean it's a yeah laban's real and greater Israel Obsession Master race chosen people it's so right in your face and the it's the Israel Lobby their flaks are always there to like say oh that's the most offensive thing you could ever say blah blah blah and at this point fits what are they going to say after the fact because think about some of the things

[11:32] that these ridiculous flaks like the ADL like remember when they went after uh ilhan Omar for saying it's all about the Benjamins and they tried to say like well that's an anti-semitic Trope because you're saying that the lobby you know pays all this money to people which they obviously do but that's like The Stereotype that like Jewish people have all this money and they're controlling things so naughty naughty but like obviously lobbying works and it's about money so it was a ridiculous thing to begin with but after this genocide the little things that they accuse people of it's going to be funny because all of

[12:03] these people that are Flacks for the Israel Lobby are all guilty of they're guilty of crimes against humanity for advocating for genocide and supporting this yeah so they're they're essentially like people who are mass murderers are guilty of horrible crimes against humanity just for flacking for this genocide and they're going to talk about these little infractions of people who like maybe made some comment that could be interpreted as this or that I mean it's a joke I don't know what they think they're going to do after this the ADL is going to be a total laughing stock after this any serious person will hear

[12:35] all of their pronouncements and laugh at these people who are basically genocidal monsters and they're somehow out there policing the language and scolding people for things they do wrong like you're you're backing a genocide and terrible crimes against humanity and you have a job to like go around and tattle on everyone it's just a joke what do they think is going to happen in the after this like and and and you realize they didn't think it through because they're insane they're just insane there's no I don't know any other way to

[13:05] say it I don't have any sympathy for any Americans who are like oh I still like it because I don't know I was brainwashed for my whole life to like worship this flag in the state I mean when you worship a state like a and you think it's this magical thing that's F that's a big part of fascism I mean that's essentially a fascist idea the like organic State the metaphysical state so I just I don't see how it's I think Israel may be done because it's going to be so Gastly going forward I mean the younger gener and it's just

[13:36] going to get worse because you recall the nurg trials you know you had a while at the nurg trials where Garing was like kind of being a bit of a r and tour and the proceedings seem to be going not as badly as you would have guessed and then they showed this film that was made this documentary well there's going to be a documentary made about this when the dust settles and it's going to because of advances in techn techology there's going to be so much more material I hope Abby Martin she should she should be the one to make it because she did the Gaza fights for Freedom with great thing to

[14:08] show anyone who says they should use nonviolent resistance well we see what they do you get shot in the leg by Israeli snipers yeah that's right they need to document this and we need to have a full Accounting in some way of this at least the leadership has to be I mean at least BB should be in spend the rest of his life in jail but you know how do we get to that point how in the world he's been successful over the years here in the United States in convincing people not just people people and institutions that any criticism of him

[14:41] personally is anti-Semitism is a mystery to me but maybe this conflict has been so brutal that it will serve as a wakeup call for Americans to realize that that there is no excuse at all under any circumstances to treat human beings the way the Netanyahu government is treating Palestinians you know I went to Israel it's it's funny I've been to I've been

[15:12] to literally every Arab country except Libya everyone in the world um I had never been to Israel until two years ago it was the first time i' had gone and you know you you go to Tel Aviv you're sitting in the center of Tel Aviv at a cafe and you look around and you say my God this place is fantastic it's first world palm trees beautiful beaches and then you go to Palestine and you say my God this is the

[15:42] world's largest outdoor prison how can these poor people survive in these oppressive violent hopeless conditions and yet they do and I'll tell you one of the things that we should be thinking about and maybe even worrying about is the statement that was made by by Jared Kushner a couple of weeks ago about how much he would like to develop Gaza as a resort beautiful beachfront property this is extremely dangerous and

[16:13] it did it didn't just pop off the top of his head I think this is what the plan is about it's CRI it's criminal in and of itself it's it's more evidence of genocidal intent yeah exactly and about four weeks ago idar benir the minister of whatever National Security I guess it is um uh sponsored legislation in the Israeli knesset to provide exit visas for any Palestinian that wants to leave well the the the policy the Israeli

[16:45] policy since 1967 is that Palestinians can't leave I was talking to a Palestinian physician just a couple of months ago and he said that uh he was born and raised in Gaza his parents always stressed education and so he studied and studied and studied as hard as he could and he actually got a scholarship to attend a French medical school and so he applied for an exit visa and was denied and he reapplied every single year for seven

[17:16] years and then for reasons that he's never understood they approved him now the this French school was good enough to to renew the scholarship every year for seven years so he went to France got a medical degree and the Israelis never let him back in again what he wanted to do was go back to Gaza and to be a physician there to treat his people the Israelis never let him back in so now it's the opposite that the policy is the policy is to get everybody out send them

[17:49] anywhere they want to go just get them out send them to Jordan or Egypt or the United States or wherever so that the Israelis can settle that land right they'll take it over and turn it over to to settlers mostly American settlers and the Jared kushers and Donald Trump so the world can build resorts in violation of international law on Palestinian territory I really believe that that's the policy it was not an accident that he just that he just came out with it right and I don't I mean I it will be

[24:36] on torture and they said that torture was not Christian so awesome I taught uh in the in the Jesse Helms School of government okay so we disagreed on 99.9% of issues but that one tenth of 1% that we agreed on was was torture but one of the things that I learned is that that American conservative American evangelicals have this inexplicably simplistic view of

[25:08] Israel whereby number one they don't have the foggiest idea that some Palestinians are Christians number one like not the foggiest idea number two they believe like actually believe in their hearts that they can hasten the second coming of Christ that it's within their power to hasten the second coming of Christ by forcing all of the world's Jews back to Israel and so the Israelis

[25:41] are smart enough to know that they can exploit this stupidity on the part of American evangelicals by saying Hey listen you know if you support Israel we can give you money for your mega churches and you can encourage Jews to come home and now they're joined at the hip but for wildly different reasons and it's just it's just like you have to be halfrain dead to not see what the Israelis that

[26:12] the Israelis are playing you but even if they realized it I don't think they would care yeah I mean they they wouldn't because they would see that it as the even if they understood they were being manipulated they would think that the Israelis were doing it for they may be doing it for wrong reasons but they're they're gonna rebuild that Temple Mount and they're gonna Slaughter those cow exactly right all the crazy [ __ ] yeah we were just talking about slaughtering the cows today exactly they're going to take the Temple Mount and they're going to put the Third

[26:43] Temple up and then we'll see yeah I mean this is really lunacy and I I'll say this the voice of reason here is in a sense Iran uh this this is a picture of the aftermath of that attack of the on the Consulate in uh in Syria the Iranian consulate and the killing of a very senior irgc commander and this the analysis here this is from the cradle but um the political analyst all political analyst Amal sad says and this

[27:14] is so obvious this this killing appears less about employing the madman Theory to intimidate and deter its adversaries and more about deliberately embracing a strategy of chaotic Warfare to escalate and expand the scope of the conflict so the US will be forced to directly enter the war should the hell out of all of us we were just talking about this and I'll elaborate on this a little more because this came in the Jerusalem Post today um Israel or Iran offers no response to Damascus strike if us secures Gaza ceasefire so apparently Iran is behind the scenes saying we will not respond to

[27:46] that air strike if you can or you know negotiate AC fire in Gaza which is to my mind quite magnanimous and that's some statesmanship from Iran which we don't see anything from the US except for you know lying in a clown show every time any spokesperson opens their mouth but here they are what do you think uh what do you think are the chances that Hezbollah and Iran working together could could somehow find a way to diffuse this without it going into a wider War because I think that's in

[28:17] everybody's interest it's in the Israelis interest if they the Israel's interest that's right and you know the both Iran and Hezbollah have to be have to be lauded for their for their restraint R from the very beginning of this it's incredible to me that we haven't seen almost the immediate expansion of the conflict and we haven't and it's because the Iranians and Hezbollah have been so um so unwilling to take the Israeli bait and to respond to Israel's

[28:51] provocation or provocative uh actions um now the Iranians told us through the Swiss uh uh intersection the US intersection at the Swiss Embassy in tan they told us late last week that they intended to respond to the Israeli attack but they saw this as a state-to-state attack that required a state-to-state response they would not use Shia militias in Iraq or Syria or

[29:22] Yemen to strike back at Israel this would be a state response number one number two they said that they had no intention of hitting a US Target that this was between Iran and Israel and they wanted to tell us in advance now can you remember a previous time when the Iranian government would proactively offer up assurances like this to the American government because I can't so I think that the Iranians I think that the Iranians

[29:53] should be applauded for the way they've handled this thing now the Israelis deserve to be smacked for what they did in in Damascus and whatever the Iranians end up doing in retaliation the Israelis have earned it I mean the the chances of Israel getting what it deserves are so small anyway but whatever does will be a part of that yeah yeah yeah but uh you know I think that I think you're exactly correct that the ultimate Israeli goal is to drag the United States into this

[30:25] no matter how bad it gets I don't think they really care how far down the road it goes including with the employment of nuclear weapons I think that the goal the ultimate goal is is to bring the US in yeah and China China and Russia have made statements to the effect that they will if it comes down to it protect the sovereignty and the existence of the Iranian state so yes this would be bringing in this would be essentially nuclear doomsday if that comes down to that yes and this is again so not so

[30:59] difficult to game out and yet there doesn't seem to be that ability anymore and that's what is frightening about this it's bad enough when you had all these cold war game War or Game Theory machine mind people who were kind of lunatics but at least you felt like they could at least predict sometimes that if you did X and Y then Z might happen you know yes some accuracy they don't gain they've lost that ability and that's what is frightening to me because the part of the reason I was skeptical that the Ukraine war would ever break out is

[31:30] because I didn't see it at all as being in the US interest for something like that to happen it didn't make any sense to me at all if I'd been reading Consortium news more which I normally did at the time I would have said oh yeah it is this a good chance this is gonna happen I didn't say like oh it'll never happen but I thought like I don't think that they will invade because I think that it doesn't make any sense for the US to provoke an invasion because how could you possibly beat uh Russia with Ukraine you intervene more then you have a nuclear war and that's what I

[32:01] thought at the time and I was that's obviously the case like that's been the case and so what the what what are we doing there and why is Israel doing this when it's similarly like if they murder everyone uh in Gaza they will destroy themselves because the whole world will be a gas if they start a war with Iran it could lead a nuclear war that's a disaster there's no good solution to this so why the hell are they doing the things that they're doing yeah you're exactly right I don't want to get too far off uh off of uh Israel and

[32:31] Palestine but you rais a good point about about Ukraine and you know it makes you wonder what in the world Emanuel macron's uh thinking when he says he wants to send French combat troops to uh to Ukraine that would be an act of war and it would it would draw NATO including the United States uh directly into that war just like the Israelis want to draw the United States into their War none of it makes any sense none of it and you're right what in the world would make the United

[33:03] States think that Ukraine could beat Russia a nuclear power and one of the three most powerful countries in the world and to what end why do we need Ukraine to be in NATO we don't we don't besides the fact that we repeatedly promised the Russians over the course of what three or four different presidential Administration ations that we would not expand NATO to Russia's border and we did it multiple

[33:33] times multiple times and they finally had to put their foot down yeah this is this gets into what I the parallels I see there and it's been a bit shocking to me I'm going to talk to you a little bit about some of the things that we've done because it involves CIA uh that we've been working on at the podcast and we have a series coming up with uh my friend Ben Howard who has co-authored things with me and Peter Scott uh in the past and uh we're looking at Peter Dale Scott's 2005 article on the Global Drug

[34:04] meta group and it deals with this military contractor outfit called Far West which was something of a successor to BCCI and it involved all of these characters um that that were that included people who planned the Russian 911 of 2000 which started off the second chin war and it it really gets into this whole postc Cold War era that I I think people do not well understand and that I'm only trying to sort of look at some of this work and obscure work and make

[34:35] sense of what happened but I now think that what and I think your story actually fits into this and I'll try to explain how uh I think that the big conflict in the in George HW Bush's administration because I used to hear um Lawrence Wilkerson and Rey McGovern say that HW Bush always called the neocons The Crazies right and said oh they're they're dreaming up crazy [ __ ] in the B and then you had the the wolfa witz insano version of the defense plan which was basically like the PAC Manifesto

[35:06] except it was like eight years before Pac where he was just saying that the wolfowitz doctrine we got to make sure that no power could possibly challenge American uh Global dominance and then this was too crazy for bush bush is a guy and and a family that people on the left who are study these you know Imperial chicanery and covert operations and all this we think bush is pretty Sinister but I I think actually and I and I don't dispute that he is and that he's part of that American waspy establishment that did a lot of terrible things but this neocon group is

[35:38] different and they are worse and they were they were chastened when not only did Bush leaked that to the press and put the kibos on Wolowitz's crazy plan for world domination but they also Bush also HW Bush also told the Israelis that they need to negotiate a two-state solution seriously or they're not going to get these loan guarantees and no president had done that it got written up in Israel that like this maybe is maybe why he lost and bush shouldn't have uh you know betrayed his Israel

[36:09] Israeli friends so I think that there was a conflict that involved the upper echelons of the US at this time and that some of these investigations that came out like BCCI or the Danny coolero whoever it was that was feeding him information and it tied into some of these people I think that there was a struggle between that old waspy mobbed up American establishment that George Bush and Allan dullas and other people represent and then the neocons which are American Hardline right-wingers

[36:40] militarists you know people like Cheney or historically people like scoop Jackson and so on uh and then but merged with the Israel Lobby and that this was really the big conflict and I think some of it involved covert operations in a sense and who would control them I think that the US back at different times was more involved with the kind of Mafia type operations and that when these scandals happen just as they did in the 70s they kind of get offshored in different ways and I think that you look

[37:12] at Epstein and you think what does Epstein represent he's intelligence but he's also got all these Israel connections I think Israel's been running a lot of these crazy operations or the neocons have and I it would be really interesting to know to what extent these are handled by CIA the CIA and the American side or was there some sort of high level decision to Outsource these to a kind of intelligence mob Mafia sort of thing I mean it it actually makes me wonder go

[37:42] back and look at what were the Zionist and Israeli connections to like the Lansky Syndicate and so on over years and I don't think that we've ever we've never really fully investigated the relationship between the mob and the intelligence agencies and what the hell they were doing in the 90s who was approving it who was running it was it the US and the Pentagon and CIA or was it a neocon sort of international with you know perhaps with guidance from mad and so on it's you look at these events and they are hard

[38:13] to explain except with reference to a conflict sort of like Watergate and like I think that HW Bush was removed by similar forces that removed Nixon because Nixon seems to have been I mean who was it that's there the aftermath of Nixon's resignation under the Ford Administration it's Cheney and Rumsfeld and they fire all the regular right-wingers and they bring in neocon type people so this is like a a part of our history that is important and nobody really has written the definitive or

[38:44] even a definitive strong version of it that's your next book you know I'll tell you um Arabs say all the time uh well Arab diplomats Arab intellectuals political figures will tell you all the time that there have only been two presidents in American history that gave the Arabs a fair shake and that was Dwight Eisenhower and George HW Bush and that was it that was it in all of American History they say that those are the two the two presidents that they could trust not that they could trust

[39:14] the people that surrounded those Presidents J they should add JFK to that though he NASA NASA wept and uh and was despondent for days when Kennedy was killed and Kennedy was trying to stop them from getting nuclear weapons and he was trying to solve the Palestinian question and a total 180 after the fact that's true that's true yeah that's true uh but you're right the you know the the wolfowitz Cheney Rumsfeld uh my God all

[39:44] Pearl you know there's there's a famous story that that on September 11th um Richard Pearl was at the White House and he said uh you know we have to attack Iraq and uh several several of the NSC people said we don't think Iraq did this and he said I don't care who did it we have to attack Iraq and that was the policy I mean Sam Huntington wrote in I think it's in Clash of the civilizations he says Iraq is the only country that

[40:16] could challenge like Western hemony in the Middle East uh because Iraq has agricultural capacity with those famous river banks and delas and uh they have some industry and some social services and so on and so I think that's what really those sanctions were about in the 90s where they were just let's keep Iraqi oil off the market let's not let that country develop let's just make it a basket case because it's we're better off that way and that was the policy that was the policy during the Iran Iraq war too where you support both sides you

[40:46] give intelligence especially overhead imagery to both sides you provide weapons to both sides because you want that war to go on forever so they completely destroy each other and then you don't have to do it give another example Casey used to make a joke he used to say oh yeah we're fing both sides so they'll kill each other yeah um in in 2008 and again in 2011 I went to Afghanistan to study the heroin poy crop I was the chief investigator on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee at the time and so um I went with h with a

[41:20] guy from DEA and with a couple of military guys and we went to kahar and to Helman prop SL Gara where they grow most of the heroin Poppy and the bottom line was this Afghanistan produces 93% of the world's heroin almost all of that heroin goes to Iran and Russia and so when I said wow you know why don't we do something to stop you know encourage them to to grow things with two growing Seasons I said

[41:51] grow onions and tomatoes and pomegranates um we we could provide the SE seeds we could provide the the fertilizer we don't want them to grow vegetables we want Iranians and Russians to be hooked on Heroin and the truth is that Iran has the highest rate of opioid Addiction in the world and Russia has the second highest rate in the world just the way we want it yeah I mean it's it's really wild

[42:23] what the US has done with drugs I mean when they there was a little bit of a push back with Nixon's War on Drugs and he shut down the the air America you know drug connection basically it got exposed by Peter Peter Del Scott really Alfred McCoy's famous for but it was really Peter it was Al Al McCoy's story is that um it was the poet Allan Ginsburg that that turned him on to this but Alan Ginsburg actually wrote to Peter a letter and said hey I heard you've been talking about this could you send me material on the uh on the dope trade in

[42:54] the CIA and he and Peter did and then then he Peter and then Ginsburg talks to McCoy I think McCoy may have been writing something of a limited hangout in a sense but that's a whole other story they suppressed Peter's book which was the better one and the more incisive one I think the war conspiracy it gets uh they they hold it off for two years they don't publish it and it turns out that the Publishing House in the middle of Indiana which published some anti-war people for strange reasons and the one that held Peter's book so that Al

[43:25] McCoy's book would come out first that place that publishing house was called Bob's Marill and the legal council for it was William Harvey of the CIA one of the most notorious you know murderous individuals ever so it's really wild but Peter has wrote in 2003 before he wrote this book about Far West and the Global Drug meta group he wrote drugs oil in war and he noticed that you know pipelines and weapons and uh drugs they they keep they overlap in US foreign policy over and over again this pi here

[43:57] in the graphic is Camp Bond steel which was built in 19 you know after the Koso war and I want to give you a little bit of a timeline here and see what you you think of this in the context of the neocon uh you know takeover of US foreign policy so a lot of this has to there were pipeline routes and so on this is Peter's you know drugs oil and War thesis you had in 1991 this gets into what I'd call the neocon international and it's it's relevant to Ukraine it's to all this in 1991 there

[44:29] was a coup there was a a strange entity set up in aeran called Mega oil it was oil companies and people like Richard Secord and Ed Dearborn from Iran Contra you know xcia guys yep and they set up an airline uh just like it like the air America more or less and they started flying in jihadis and uh cin groups and Albanian groups became involved in the heroin traffic they were facilitating these things and eventually they stay jaku in aeran and they pull it

[45:01] out of the Russian orbit and into the US orbit there's a aeran chamber of commerce with people like Dick Cheney and Richard Armitage on it and it just becomes like a you know a sort of principality of the neocon international basically and they want these pipelines uh that there's these pipelines planned to get azerbajan gas to the Black Sea or through turkey and you can see this ad BP just launched a big aeran gas pipel line they they call it the Shad Den to gas Fields after the British puppet you

[45:32] know that the CIA reinstalled so it's really it's it's ridiculous but we see that part and you know it leads to the chin War which you see that like Putin has said a couple times now hey you guys were backing these jihadis why were you doing that when you're supposed to be fighting this war on terror a good question and then additionally on the the further side on the other side of the Black Sea you have a a plan for this ambo pipeline which never really comes through but there's

[46:02] still other versions of it that they're trying to get get through but it was ambo because it's Albania Macedonia and Bulgaria oil pipeline right that's the ambo and this was a this was at the same time and then a part of uh the coast of the operations in Yugoslavia you have Camp Bond steel set up and that becomes a big hub for heroin right so you have these us operations with jihadis in aeran in Chia and they're all doing things to facilitate what the US wants

[46:33] in Kosovo the K is there a terrorist organization Mafia and their partner on the ground is al- Qaeda led by Muhammad alahi no less in 1998 1999 and I put a little X here on the graphic to show where Camp Bond steel is but it's basically not just guarding these uh sort of presides over these oil pipeline routes that are very strategic uh but also heroin went in and out of there and all sorts of other illicit traffics with uh the the ALB the Kos ofar Mafia

[47:06] basically and it was like they this was this whole neocon foreign policy and these entities like Far West Military contractors working with chin uh Warlords and drug dealers and people that were in Russian you know Russian officials but people that were not Putin Putin loyalists people that were more loyal to yelton and Bowski basically Western Stooges and uh this all seems to be part of this neocon International and when you now we're seeing like these same

[47:38] sort of entities like Tajikistan people attacking uh Moscow and then trying to flee to Ukraine yeah uh it's like they they it really is this kind of this sort of fascist force in the US it's like a it's I I just call it the parap fascist Neo International because it's like it's a way that you can have the essentially like a global fur principle where you just break whatever laws you want all the time except you just say we didn't do that like we have all these policies

[48:08] we're just like oh no we don't we didn't do that but they they are using these jihadis and then you turn around to 911 and then all of a sudden it becomes the reason for like actually going over there and putting more military bases in all these same places because the same groups they've been you know supporting supposedly are attacking us but then our only remedy is to go and do all these things we wanted to do in the energy heartlands of the world anyway I mean it's it's a scandal with it's needs to be investigated and yet we're we can't do

[48:40] anything about it we're just like uh we see what they want with the NATO expansion we see what the neocons want with these what the zionists want who are the main really force behind the Neons we see how insane they are with Gaza and I feel like the 21st century and even the the post Cold War era was a was sort of a a kind of mobbed up uh foreign policy adventure to try to take over the whole world and it just failed and now we're seeing that it fall apart it's run a ground on Israel I mean Iraq

[49:12] and Afghanistan first but Israel Syria uh you know Gaza I mean Ukraine it's all fall falling apart and I don't see how they can salvage it so what what what do we do with these this history that's a fake history and fake news day today and it doesn't matter because no matter how much they lie about it we're still at this point where everything's falling apart anyway yeah what can we do I mean in a perfect world we could rely on the Congressional oversight committees to ensure that this kind of thing doesn't happen but that that doesn't

[49:43] work it's never it's never worked at least besides um working very briefly in 1975 and 76 uh it's just not worked uh so how much that worked I question how much that worked at all because I now think more that some of the function of that was to take covert operations and move make them even further removed I actually think that some of the people that were behind the the the Freedom of Information Act may have been working

[50:14] along similar lines like if you make it so the US is not able to carry out Co operations because there's a little bit of a fear of Congress or whatever then the the response of the people running the US is not like well we're going to have to be lawful it's that they're going to have to Outsource some of these things yeah I think drive it deep underground and I and I think that Israel has been a major repository and Driver of of the of this that they've that they've taken over a lot of the things that the CIA might have wanted to

[50:45] do in the past I think that some of these investigations had a weird side to them of like really trying to to to make it so the US can't carry out cover operations so has to rely on these other these other outfits and that gives them power otherwise it's hard to it's hard to totally understand how Israel can bend the US to its will I don't think they totally control it because I think the us is going to push back because this is so disastrous but man it it's it's definitely not like a a normal

[51:16] relationship between countries and I think that the clandestine part of it is is is important and yet it's never really been told because of course it's all secret yes yeah and it'll always be secret you know it's one of the what what it is called the holy of holies in the uh in the intelligence committee you can't ever talk about sources and methods you can't ever talk about liaison relationships and you can't talk about anything having to do with NSA but sources and methods is it completely encompasses uh

[51:48] covert action they don't even like saying the words covert action right you can't even really speak the words covert action when you're when you're inside the CIA that's how secretive it is so yeah I think you're right I think that we've we've put ourselves in a position where we probably are Outsourcing a lot of these cover action programs there is no oversight and even if there was oversight I think that that the um oversight committee members in both the house and the Senate have either been so co-opted that they just buy in or

[52:20] they've been so cowed that they don't object so what do the people that you are in cont I don't know how many people with the agency are still in contact with but I there's supposed to be dispassionate realists supposed to be are there do you hear any realists who are like able to look at the United States position and how it has deteriorated so much and how our possibilities are are going to have to be narrowed a good bit and our Ambitions scaled back are is is that even setting

[52:52] into or is there such a group think and a kind of enforced Conformity that nobody really says like this whole thing has been a quest for Empire and it's failed we got to deal with it is anybody saying that no uh they're not group think is a big problem but you'll get former CIA officers to say that until the cows come home but people who are still active in the CIA no they they would never be so self-reflective absolutely not that's why that's why people like like Ray

[53:22] McGovern for example or Fulton Armstrong are such gems because they they speak freely then they were senior officers they were senior intelligence service officers um so they they know of what they speak but among people who were still actively CIA absolutely not right it's just this this alarming sense that there's nobody who is sensible looking at these these things I just it's and acade

[53:53] academics are bad even leftist anti imperialists are often very blinkered strangely some one of the best people out there is Jeff Sachs I mean he he actually sounds like he is summarizing my own like dissertation in his broad arguments it's actually remarkable I mean I wrote in 2015 that the US is basically Lawless top- down uh state that is bent on world domination and has institutionalized the uh abnation of the

[54:23] rule of law and uh through cover op operations and everything else and so on he now says similar things and he says similar things about JFK he even talks about the you know the Jihadi operations in the 90s and such and uh it's it's so jarring to listen to them compared to all the other academics it's just they've really created a totalitarian system where whether you're in Academia or anywhere else you every incentive if you want to advance is to uh accept really the big lie over and over again

[54:54] different big lies uh in general and it's I don't know how we overcome this except without with some sort of defeat but when we're a nuclear armed Nation that's a dicey proposition yeah you can say that again look at the risk of miscalculation it's almost not worth taking and and I don't you just it's you there seem to be no adults in the in the room the the Biden Biden and Trump both are are insane uh and they don't hire anyone who is able to say anything the

[55:25] best guy is John Kirby only because he looks so uncomfortable he looks like a sitcom character with that smirk on his face all the time like it's slapstick but like there's nobody that's sensible in speaking truth about these things at all yeah sad but true so I I but I think that things that can't go on forever don't and so that is something to make note of but what does that mean it just is like that saying like things can't if things are going to stay the same they're going to have to change a lot you know like that joke

[55:57] right so but and I can accept that but what does that mean it's almost like Yogi Bara is is telling us what we need to what we need to focus on that's what we need as president he's dead but maybe with AI we can somehow resurrect him and that we make him our president well John uh I want to thank you very much for um for taking the time to talk to us today uh where can people follow your work I know you're on Sputnik anything else you want to talk about here oh yeah thanks I I'm on sput Nick I've got a weekly Tv show

[56:28] uh that's uh syndicated in 33 countries but the easiest way to uh to find any of it is on substack at John kiraku thanks for having excellent I will put links in the show notes and uh as ever I appreciate you uh spending time with us thanks so much Aon it's a pleasure thanks to Dana chavaria for producing this episode and thank you for tuning in you can buy or rent the for D trying prologue now on Amazon and other streaming platforms chapter one is also
