Title: Dalton Fischer Podcast
Show: Dalton Fischer Podcast
Date: 2025-09-01
URL: https://youtu.be/llAX3SdqsL0
Duration: 11:00

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[00:00] You have to have a plausible reason to go from A to B. Correct. >> Exactly. That's the key of an SDR. SDR standing for surveillance detection route. You start at what's called a kickoff point. You have to make it look like you're running errands. Ersands that are totally normal and legit. >> What are some of the things that they would do to stay on your tail, like switch plates, disguises, what would they do? >> Oh, yes. And yes. And then in places like China, Russia, you don't do a 2 or threeh hour SDR. you do an 8 hour SDR because then they're using infrared cameras, helicopters and and then you

[00:34] make what's called a provocative move just in case the surveillance are so good that you've missed them. That is going to be where you finally get them. I handled an asset, an agent uh whom I did not recruit. He had been recruited 15 20 years earlier and so I inherited him and he was probably I'm going to say 40 years older than me. Uh and I liked

[01:04] him and he liked me and we both had like similar taste in art and and he was always chasing women and I know and I know a lot about Marxism and communism. I'm well read in Marxism and he was a communist and so we would debate what Marx meant about some obscure passage, you know, stuff like that and that was always fun for me. So, I needed to vet him. You have to

[01:35] constantly vet your your agents to make sure that they're doing what they're telling you they're doing. So, I said to him, "Listen, when you come to these meetings, you're doing a surveillance detection route, right?" He goes, "Of course I am. I've been doing this for 20 years. I said, "Okay, I just want to make sure." So, I called a team of Sue, special operations officers. We we had him right there in the um in the station. It was a very large station. And so, I said, "Can you can you guys put a team or two teams on him and just

[02:05] make sure he's doing what he says he's doing?" And they said, "Sure, because then I can write it up and send it to headquarters and say his vetting's good for another year. No problems." This guy, he lived in a northern suburb and the SES called me a couple of times during the surveillance detection route and they said, "This guy is awesome. He he took a cab from his house to this, you know, eight lane highway,

[02:38] got off on the highway. remember he's 70 years old and ran across the eight lanes, leaped over the the concrete jersey barrier, went to the other side of the highway, and then hailed another cab going in the opposite direction. So, he gets to the meeting and I knew like every minute of his route. He gets the meeting and I said, "Did you do a surveillance detection route on the way to the meeting?" He said, "Yeah, it was

[03:09] a good one." And uh I said, "What'd you do?" And he said, "Just take my word for it. I took care of things." I said, "Well, what's that supposed to mean? Because I need to know if you actually did it." And then he said, "Yeah." He said, "I got out of the side of the highway and I ran across the highway." I said, "Oh my god, do you know how provocative that is? If somebody was actually watching you, they'd say, "What the [ __ ] is he doing?" >> And he said, "Nobody was watching me." I said, "Okay." So, do you have to maybe explain to people what an SDR is?

[03:40] >> You're not supposed to >> You have to have a plausible reason to go from A to B. Correct. >> Exactly. That's the key of an SDR. SDRs are very, very specific. SDR standing for surveillance detection route. They're very specific. So, there are a couple of terms that you need to know. Like a red road is a big major road that has lots of cars. So, if you're on a red road, you can't possibly tell if you're under surveillance. But you and I and everybody else, we drive on red roads every day, right? Then there's a black road which is not well

[04:12] traveled, maybe through a neighborhood or whatever. So, you start at what's called a kickoff point. It could be your house, it could be your office, it could be whatever, wherever you happen to be every day. And you have to make it look like you're running errands. errands that are totally normal and legit. So, you get in your car, you get on a red road, and you drive to the dry cleaners, and you either pick up or drop off your dry cleaning. Okay, that's totally normal.

[04:43] Everybody does that. Then you go from that first what's called an SDR stop to the second SDR stop. Now, the second SDR stop, you're not going to get back on that red road because you're from the area. You're familiar with the area. So, you're going to do a cut through. You're going to cut through a residential neighborhood on a black road. And you see if you drag anybody in with you from the red road and then you go to, let's say, a wine

[05:17] shop because there's this certain bottle of wine that you're looking for. And then you make a note to yourself. Try not to write it down, but the make, model, and color of the car, the license plate, just to see if you see them later. The definition of surveillance is multiple sightings at time and distance. So, you see the car multiple times at different places. Um, multiple sightings

[05:48] at time and distance. different times and different places, right? So, you stop at the wine store, you buy the bottle of wine, and then you make what's called a provocative move. This is what's called they called it the provocative phase where you stair step. You you go a block, make a right, go another block, make a left, make a right, make a left, make a right, like you're going up a set of stairs, right?

[06:19] So, normal people don't drive like that. It's very provocative. If you're under surveillance, you're going to notice it then. And then you stop at, you know, the Jo-Ann's Fabrics and you buy, you know, set of buttons or whatever. I don't know. And then you to go from stop three to the meeting location, you do some

[06:51] driving maneuvers that nobody would do. You drive halfway down a block, you pull in somebody's driveway, you pull out, you make a U-turn. Then you pull into another driveway and make another U-turn. and you just do all kinds of crazy [ __ ] that just in case the surveillance are so good that you've missed them. That is going to be where you finally get them. And then if you have surveillance, you abort the meeting and you just drive home and you do the whole thing again 24 hours later.

[07:23] That's what surveillance detection is. So it's just it's just if you see it just more than once if you see the same car. >> That's the principle. It's more than once. >> Yes. >> So what were like and you became a surveillance detection instructor at one point in your career, right? >> I did. >> Okay. So if you were either um if you guys were tailing a trainee or um even like let's say like a real a real life opposition force that was tailing you, right? What were some of the What are some of the things that they would do um

[07:56] to stay on your tail? Like switch plates, disguises, what would they do? >> Oh, yes and yes. They switch plates, they switch clothes, um they put on disguises, they'll put on a mustache, they'll put on a wig or a different hat or um some will jump out of the car and start going on foot. And then maybe you get out of your car and you go on foot or you go on a bus or you go on the subway or in high threat areas we'll go into a parking garage and switch cars to a rental car that's been prepositioned

[08:27] there by another officer. So it gets very sophisticated. And then in places like China, Russia, Cuba, um you don't do a two or three hour SDR, you do an eight hour SDR. Yeah, because then they're using, you know, infrared cameras looking for body heat and they're using helicopters and cuz they're going to catch the guy that you're trying to meet and they're going to execute him. So, you have to really

[09:00] make sure that you're not being followed. Another example is once you leave the red road, um I I worked with a guy who got a little bit lazy. He was a good officer, but he but he got lazy. So, he starts off at the embassy, which is in the center of town, and he takes a red road far north, and he goes to um to a restaurant. There was like a TGI Friday up there or something. Disgusting place. And he stops and has a sandwich. Okay,

[09:31] that's a legit stop. I wouldn't use it, but it it's a legit stop. And then he drives all the way back downtown again. Okay, you're caught. You're caught. Cuz nobody would drive an hour to go to a TGI Friday in Hburg. Nobody. Right. And then even if you even if you were under surveillance and knew it, you wouldn't be able to spot their surveillance going back into the center of town because it's another red road. It never made sense to me. And sure enough, headquarters dinged him. You have to

[10:02] write a whenever you meet with a source, you have to write three separate cables at least. You have to write a cable that has the intelligence that he gave you that you need to have disseminated to the analysts. You need to write an accompanying operational cable with all of the stuff that the analysts don't have a need to know, but that your desk officer needs to know. Like, ah, he asked me for more money. Oh, he's depressed because his wife left him. Oh,

[10:32] he just got promoted. Whatever. the analyst doesn't have a need to know for any of that stuff. So th two those two cables and then you have to write a very detailed cable on your surveillance detection route and that goes to counter intelligence and then CI will look at it and say oh this this is this is bad. He went all the way up to TGI Friday and then came all the way back down again and sure enough they dinged him and they said don't do that again. If you were being followed, you just blew everything.

[11:06] >> What's up, guys? Thank you so much for taking the time to watch the interview. If you got anything out of this video at all, please like the video, leave me a comment, tell me what you thought of the video, uh, tell me who you'd like to see on the show. I really appreciate the support. It goes a long way on these platforms, as you guys know. Most importantly, I have some excellent interviews coming up in the future that I'm really, really excited about. So, please subscribe to the channel so you don't miss any of them. But that's it. Thank you for your support.
