Title: \"The Ears Did Not Match\" - Ex-CIA's John Kiriakou On Eps
Show: Mario Nawfal
Date: 2026-02-19
URL: https://youtu.be/eE30KoA2VU8
Duration: 57:00

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[00:00] Who do you think is behind all this? My original conclusion that Epstein was a Mossad access agent is correct. I think that they're perfectly happy to threaten American citizens, just like they're perfectly happy to spy on the American government. >> agree Epstein did not kill himself. >> Epstein was murdered. The real shame is that he was cremated. And so we'll never get to examine that body. How high up do you think it goes cuz we now found out that obviously Trump is in the files but nothing too sinister. >> The real shame of this whole thing is that people are not going to be

[00:30] prosecuted. We've talked about Epstein before but now we've got so much more to go through and I know you've been talking about it for the last few days. A general question for uh first John, what do you make of all this? Everything we've seen now. It's a lot. It's a lot and it's actually worse than I think we expected. Uh it I've I've said a hundred times on on podcasts over the last week or so that

[01:00] the real shame of this whole thing is that people are not going to be prosecuted. The statute of limitations has expired on virtually every crime that could be prosecuted in the United States. It's wonderful that Peter Mandelson is being investigated criminally for the passage of classified documents to Epstein. It's wonderful that former Prince Andrew is being investigated for the passage of classified defense secrets to Epstein. But in the United States, we're seeing very important people implicated in in

[01:33] crimes or at least in wrongdoing and there's no chance that they're going to be prosecuted. At least you know, if you're a believer in karma at least there's this idea that well Pritzker has been humiliated. Bannon's been humiliated. Obama's White House counsel Kathryn Ruemmler has been humiliated. Okay, that's fine. But what about justice for the victims? I don't think there will be any justice for the victims.

[02:05] Who do you think I asked that question yesterday to Congresswoman Mace? Who do you think is behind all this cuz we've seen such a massive cover-up. As you said, it is worse than we've expected. I'd agree as I've been going through the files for days. But the answer I still struggle to to to to get is is it Mossad? Is it the CIA? Is it both? Is it other intelligence agencies? From what you've seen so far, who do you think is behind it that is pressuring the DOJ, pressuring the Trump Trump administration to still not release a lot of documents, to redact so many

[02:36] names? Um Congresswoman Mace said when she was going through the files, her and other members of Congress were being monitored, John, by the DOJ. Um who's behind all this in your opinion? You know what? I think it's the movers and the shakers in American culture, in American society, the billionaire class, the political class, the ones who have been implicated in the in the several million documents that we've already been allowed to see. I want to add something. You know, Congress

[03:07] passed a law mandating the release of these documents. The vote in the House was something like 419 to 1. It was 99 to nothing in the Senate. The president signed it into law. The attorney general must release the documents. We know that there are another 2 and 1/2 million or 3 million that have not been released been released and yet Pam Bondi has come out and said, "We're all done. No more documents are coming out." It's not up to Pam Bondi to decide if more documents

[03:37] will or will not come out. It's been mandated by an act of Congress, a law that the president has signed. And the American people, the whole world, really, has the right to know what these documents say. I think Congresswoman Mace um is correct. Uh I'll tell you in my own case, in my own situation when the Justice Department released 15,000 pages of classified discovery to us we were only allowed to read the documents in the Justice Department's

[04:08] conference room. And there was a Justice Department representative in the room while I was there consulting with my attorneys. Is that fair? Is that even legal? But that's what the Justice Department does. So when Nancy Mace said that there was a DOJ official sort of observing members of Congress I believe that. And that's exactly what's wrong with the system. From the the files that you've seen so far, does that change your analysis of

[04:41] Epstein from what we last discussed a few months ago? You said it's worse. Um what are your new conclusions or deductions from the new files? Well, I think that my original conclusion that Epstein was a Mossad access agent is correct. Um and I think that's been borne out. But it's it seems now deeper than that, worse than that. We know now, thanks to these new files, that Epstein was actively seeking contact with the CIA. He was actively seeking contact with the FBI and the National Security

[05:11] Council with MI5 and MI6 in the UK, with apparently the Germans, with Vladimir Putin himself. He he repeatedly asked for a private one-on-one meeting with Putin. The Russians finally came back and said, "Yes, you can meet with Putin but with three other people in the room." And Epstein declined. So it seems to me that he was actively trying to place himself in these different intelligence organizations or

[05:42] in proximity to different intelligence organizations, apparently to burnish his credentials as an access agent. It's the only conclusion that I can come to. And then there were these odd emails indicating that his attorneys had filed Freedom of Information Act requests with the CIA and the NSC asking for them to confirm that he had some sort of association with the CIA and the NSC. There's no indication that they ever responded. They'll probably respond a hundred years

[06:13] from now with their FOIA backlog. But uh but that that troubled me deeply and it made me think, does that mean the Israelis were trying to spy on the CIA? Trying to spy on the National Security Council or on MI5 and MI6? Cuz that's what it looks like. Another thing I want to add now, I'll open up a file and this a discussion between him and Steve Bannon. They've got a lot of back and forth. They were really close. A lot of question marks there. But as you said, Steve is one of the many that were embarrassed by this. And this is um

[06:43] uh Jeffrey telling Steve Bannon going into a SCIF talk tomorrow. A SCIF is is as I'm sure you know and and the audience probably knows is a sealed room that is extremely classified that the CIA, the FBI, the military use um to discuss classified information and requires very high-level security clearance to enter a SCIF. Yet he managed to enter it in 2018 when he's facing he's being convicted as a sex offender. Mhm. Further reinforces the fact that he would have been heavily embedded with the CIA cuz someone in Mossad would not

[07:15] be able to just enter a SCIF. Would you agree? >> Never. N- Absolutely never would somebody associated with Israel be allowed to enter a SCIF, at least knowingly associated with Israel. Um you're right, Mario. A SCIF is um just to give people an idea of what a SCIF would look like. Uh in I I'm I'm want to say I'm want to explain this without getting myself in trouble. A SCIF is a sort of a

[07:45] a bubble within a bubble. You go into a building that is a classified building. You have to show a badge to get in. You have to go through metal detectors to get in. Um and then you have to go into a room that requires you to punch in a code to get in. And then inside the room is another self-contained room with very thick walls and in between the walls they're they're playing white noise so it can't the communications can't be intercepted. There are no windows.

[08:16] You have to do another code to get into there. And that's the SCIF. That's where you have your meeting. So you can talk about literally anything in a SCIF. No matter how highly classified it is no matter how highly compartmentalized, six levels above top secret, it doesn't matter. You can speak freely in a SCIF. Jeffrey Epstein was uncleared. He shouldn't even know where the SCIF is located, let alone to be invited into the SCIF for a meeting. So this raises yet additional questions. What other intelligence agencies um have access to

[08:48] a SCIF under any circumstances? Only if you're talking about an American SCIF, only the Five Eyes countries would have access to a SCIF. That's it. Unless you know >> Australia. Yeah, Five Eyes is Australia, the US, the UK. Yes, uh US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. Which we there's no links between Epstein and any of these intelligence agencies except UK weak links to the UK, um mild links to the UK and heavy links to the CIA. Yes. That's what it seems like.

[09:20] Yes. I'm going to open another file and I think because there's been so many files that were released, um it's so overwhelming. I think that's the purpose of it. They overwhelm the audience and they also muddy the waters cuz there's some crazy stuff, a lot of code words that were used that I've talked about significantly indicators of eugenics, um you know, people going down conspiratorial path of of eating babies and all that. And then there's some uh concrete facts that we have, unanswered questions that we have like the one I'm going to open now that

[09:51] raise significant questions but that are being buried among millions of files. And this one is um essentially what looks like Epstein plotting to loot Libya's billions frozen billions. Now, Epstein tried to meet Gaddafi before Gaddafi fell, and that did not work out, but that was being organized. And this is associate Greg Brown emailing Epstein about a plan to go after the 80 billion dollars in frozen Libyan assets. That real number that you know could be

[10:21] 80 could be significantly more could be 2 3 400 billion. And Brown says to him, we can identify recover 5 to 10% of these monies and receive 10 to 25% as compensation. We are taking we're talking about billions of dollars. Billions of dollars. And the real prize is becoming Libya's court go-to guys for 100 plus billion dollars in reconstruction spending. And then Brown said the following. He said he had friends form quote formally with MI6 and Mossad willing to help identify

[10:52] stolen assets and get them recovered. So that's in the middle of the fall of Gaddafi and it shows that money's to be made in in the worst of times and also reinforces something me and you talk about about a lot is that the general narrative is probably untrue when Assad is falling when Gaddafi is falling. There's a lot of interests involved and it's not always for noble reasons like the protection of defending of of democracy. But that's a separate discussion. What do you make of a find like this? Someone like Epstein talking about being the go-to person for billions of

[11:23] dollars of frozen assets that are sanctioned by the US for US citizen. You know, this is one of the dirty little secrets of the US Department of the Treasury. When when there are frozen assets that are preparing to be repatriated for example or unfrozen when there is a legitimate whistleblower complaint that results in the repatriation of funds to the United States to the US Treasury. There's a law that allows the person who

[11:54] affected that repatriation to claim a reward of between 26 and 34%. And when you're talking about billions, tens of billions, hundreds of billions of dollars, the payday for any one person is astronomical. And it doesn't surprise me at all that Epstein is working with one of the biggest law firms in America and working with other like-minded shysters to try

[12:27] to lay claim to billions of dollars that otherwise you know, they would not have access to. Someone be able to do this as a but would someone do be able to do this as a private citizen or there has to be some intelligence links cuz if we talk about the arms dealers during the Iran Contra days that Epstein worked with decades before this, they were directly working with Saudi and US and and Israeli intelligence to make those deals happen. Could in the citizens be able to achieve the same thing in places like Libya without intelligence links? Not a chance. Can you imagine if you or

[12:58] I just kind of went on our podcast and said, "Hey, listen. There's a lot of money that is Libyan money that's frozen in the United States and I would like to lay a claim to some of it." Yeah. We would be laughed out of the we'll be we'll be in the cell together or we'll be buried together. >> [laughter] >> Exactly right. So yeah, you have to have not just intelligence ties. You have to have very high level intelligence or governmental ties to be be able to even

[13:31] have your name included in that conversation. I'll make it I'll give you another example. It's about Ukraine. And this another example of highlights that there's a lot of things happening behind the scenes we don't know about so that gives us a peek into that which obviously you know about from your from working at the CIA but people like me learn about when there's leaks like this. And this one's about Ukraine. So while Kiev I'll read out the tweet that explains it and then the producer will bring up the email and show it on screen. While Kiev was in chaos in 2014, Epstein wrote that quote

[14:02] Ukraine upheaval should provide many opportunities. That was in 2014 the same day Russia formally signed the annexation of Crimea. So this is Epstein talking to who exactly? We don't know who it is. Oh, the Rothschild. Of course, he was managing their money. So we can't make this [ __ ] up. So this is Epstein talking to the Rothschilds and he said the that's the Rothschild sending the following email to Epstein. So Epstein was representing the Rothschilds. Conspiracy theorists are having the best time of their life right now saying I'm It says, "Hi Jeff, very long day sitting

[14:33] on bank board. Numbers are okay but not satisfactory to me and I'm putting them under pressure to be more innovative about asset management funds while restructuring. I'm at a dinner with a client. Fed up. I miss our talks and hope you're well. We'll be at home tomorrow night. Will you be free and let's discuss Ukraine." And below it is a discussion about the you know there's further correspondence about how to make the most out of the opportunities in Ukraine with the with the regime change that was happening in the in the war with Russia.

[15:04] Vultures. >> [laughter] >> I mean what else can you say? It wouldn't even occur to me. It probably wouldn't occur to you. But this is what these people think about all day and all night is how to take money that's not theirs and how to capitalize on human misery. And they just there's just so much money there. What's what's crazier than Epstein being intelligence which I think is it's no one's denying that anymore.

[15:34] It's a how much and it's how much money that's there and just look at his wealth. Look at the properties he had, the private jets he had, the influence he had. It gives us a peek into that world and how much protection he had. You know, having sex with underage girls, raping underage girls and getting away with it for decades is insane in a country like the US with such a strong legal system. Now, we were talking earlier about what intelligence agency he was involved in. I want to go through death threats that the victims had. So I've interviewed few

[16:05] victims. They talked about death threats. We know about Virginia Guiffre who committed suicide like everyone else in Epstein's circle. But there's a lot of red flags in in whether she really committed suicide and and unanswered questions. But let me open this one and that's victims receiving death threats in Hebrew. I'll let the producer open it up on on screen. On August 19th, August 2019, that's the same month I think he died in August. He was found out or yeah, I think it's the same month he was found dead. It was 3 weeks after his arrest. Someone sent a victim a graphic image of a

[16:37] mutilated woman with the message, "So be quiet." Another victim received a a death threat in Hebrew and it said quote, "This is what will happen to you if you talk." The document also notes she has dissociative symptoms. Other parts of herself appear little children as other parts of it. So we have victims here getting death threats. One in Hebrew and the other one I'm not sure if it's in Hebrew as well or in English. Two questions I have for you, John. Number one is is it common for intelligence agencies to go that far in offering death threats or is it more

[17:09] likely that he was using private mercenaries or private groups that offer that service for high net worth individuals? I can tell you well it's not the CIA doesn't do that. The CIA doesn't call somebody and and threaten. I'm not aware of any of the western services that just call somebody and and threaten. I will say that a lot of my activist friends in in Washington do receive death threats. Sometimes in Hebrew, often times in Farsi with Hebrew accents.

[17:42] You know, I think Mossad would probably Yeah, death threats. I I think that Mossad would probably say, "Oh, it's just it's the other side pretending to be Mossad or well, whatever." My educated guess is that this is this is something that Mossad has long done. We know that they did it during the the Iraq war threatening Iraqis in exile. Would they threaten but would they threaten American citizens or that's a line they wouldn't cross? In Oh

[18:13] no, I think that they're perfectly happy to threaten American citizens. Just like they're perfectly happy to spy on the American government or the American defense contracting community or or to recruit Americans like Jeffrey Epstein and Jonathan Pollard and God knows who else. So I don't I don't think there's any line for the Israelis. I would you know, you said about threats in Hebrew but with a Farsi accent. I think anyone that's making threats would probably want to use the Hebrew language cuz everyone's scared of Mossad and their capabilities. So would you agree

[18:44] that sometimes it's hard to differentiate whether it's or maybe a western group that's using Hebrew or someone who's Jewish but that's not Israeli or Israeli intelligence using Hebrew cuz it scares people more. Everyone's scared of Mossad. They've got an incredible reputation. I have to agree. Yeah. I mentioned Virginia Guiffre. Have you looked into her death and is I'm not sure if you've looked into it and if you have do you think it's more likely to be suicide? I haven't since since she died. I I I wrote about it when it happened and I quoted a couple of her family members but I haven't

[19:14] looked into it now. Okay. I haven't looked into it as well. I've looked into Epstein's death. I know everyone's looked into it significantly but there's more things that came out of the files. I actually Let me ask you something. If you don't mind me asking you a question. I received a a phone call a week or so ago from Jeffrey Epstein's brother and he wanted to come on my podcast and it just wasn't for me. But one of the things he said was very interesting to me. He said that he identified Jeffrey Epstein's body. Jeffrey Epstein is dead.

[19:47] What his point is was that Epstein was murdered. He didn't commit suicide. But that the people saying that Epstein is alive and is in Israel and walking around the streets with security in what was clearly an AI-generated photograph, um, that that's just simply not true. What are you hearing on the street? I I was speaking to a forensic expert and um, you know, I'm similar to you. I I I tend to stay away from conspiracy paths and I've been proven wrong time and time again. But there is unanswered questions. First, before I ask you a question, you

[20:19] should definitely have his brother on the show. I would love to hear your discussion, guys, if you change your mind. I think it would be incredible. I would love >> In terms of So, we all agree Epstein did not kill himself. That's highly unlikely. There's way too many question marks. Um, there were I'll give you some of them. I made a detailed tweet. So, when he tried to kill himself on July 23rd, that was before he actually succeeded, quote unquote succeeded. He said he didn't try to kill himself. He was assaulted by his cellmate. Um, and the footage of that day was actually accidentally deleted. So,

[20:49] that's number one. Then he was meant to be placed on suicide watch. Well, after 6 days of suicide watch, against protocol, he was removed from suicide watch. Well, if he did try to kill himself, suicide watch would last longer. It continues. On the night he died, the guards missed the 3:00 and 4:00 a.m. rounds. I think we all know that and they said they fell asleep or were browsing the internet and they admitted to falsifying records. So, that's common knowledge now. It We also many people don't know that his cellmate was actually removed from Epstein's cell 2 days beforehand and again against protocol, he was not

[21:21] replaced. And was a mass murderer. There you go. It it And he was a mass murderer as well. But he wasn't there when he when Epstein was died. So, he the cell was empty and some he he someone should have been there. As one would guess, removing potential witnesses. Um, also we know Epstein made an unmonitored phone call the day before he he died. Um, he said he talked to his mother, but it was unmonitored against protocol again. Protocol's being broken left, right, and center. Yeah, that's right. And we don't know who he spoke with. We

[21:51] know that the cameras on the day John also malfunctioned. Um, everyone knows that. That we do have footage in the Epstein files of an orange figure walking to where no one was meant to be there according to the attorney general and the official report, but there's no explanation to it. We don't know who walked up there, but we know someone went into his area. Um, and then there's something very bizarre. This one you might not know. And I dismissed it initially. So, there was a 4chan post on the day Epstein died. I think it's hours beforehand or within within that same time period, very quickly. And one of

[22:23] the victims told me, Mario, it was literally right after he died. And that person claimed to be a prison guard and he said that Epstein was taken into an infirmary with his hands, uh, and feet shackled. And then also there was a van a trip van that drove into the prison without registering. And there was a person inside it wearing an army uniform. Now, everyone dismissed that post initially as like someone making up [ __ ] but then it was proven, I think the information was provided by 4chan after a court order, and it was proven that that post was actually by prison

[22:54] guard Robert Grivalia. I don't know what happened to him now. So, a prison guard actually posted these questionable things immediately right after Epstein was found dead. Now, where the questions We also know the crime scene was tampered with. Protocol The body was moved. He shouldn't have been moved. There were no markers there. All these question marks. There were also shrieks. He was shrieking in his cell according to other cellmates. That wasn't dismissed, not investigated. Now, where it gets questionable on whether he's alive or dead. Um, in the autopsy and I was speaking to a forensic expert, uh, sorry, in the

[23:24] images we have of his dead body, the ear looks so different. I'm not sure if you've seen that. Epstein's ear in all photos. Exactly. So, that No one could explain this. It's a small ear. >> are like fingerprints. No two people on Earth have the same ears. Exactly. So, the ears did not match. The nose did not match. Um, and we also know the brother said the autopsy report showed, uh, strangulation and not suicide. Um, not hanging hanging himself. It was strangulation, but that's doesn't mean he's alive. So, the difference in the shape of the ear is

[23:55] one. And number number two is the D In the files also, the DOJ uh um, confirmed that there was a a decoy body that was moved before Epstein's body was moved. That's That's in the files. Now, the explanation is that that's to trick the press. But I spoke I spoke to the forensic expert, Dr. G, he said, Mario, I've never heard of that happen before. That's number two. And the last one is we know about, um, Epstein's deformed penis cuz it was in the um, in the when he was questioned by the authorities and they recorded in the um,

[24:25] I forgot what you call it. And in those in those videos, they ask him, one of the victims said, you have an egg-shaped penis. That's what they said they say. And a deformed penis. And Epstein dismisses it. He says, I'll plead the fifth. And I spoke to the victim 2 days ago, Victoria, I think her name was. And she said, yes, Mario, look, I don't want to go into details, but he did have a deformed penis. But in the autopsy, they And that's something I didn't spot, but the forensic expert told me. When he was going through the files, he went very deep and he said, Mario, in the autopsy report, they talk about a normal a normal circumcised penis. So, he's like,

[24:57] Mario, either we accept that he's dead and those three questions, the ear, the deformed penis, and the decoy body are unanswered. And also the DOJ report about the death is dated 1 day before. They're calling it a typo. I'm sure you've seen that. So, there's four questions that we remain unanswered. Um, or he's still alive. Now, I'm leaning to some sort of conspiracy where he was killed and they're trying to hide it. But if I go with this theory, I don't have an answer for the ear. I don't have an answer for the autopsy

[25:29] report or the date of the DOJ statement. Um, I'm sure you've looked into it, though. Where do you stand on this? Well, I I tell you why why I pause. Well, first of all, I don't have any inside information. Um, but I pause for a couple of reasons and it's mostly because of my own experience in the American prison system. Number one, the guards all have their heads up their asses. Right? The only The only

[25:59] qualification that you need, qualifications plural, that you need to be a prison guard in the federal system are a a GED or high school equivalency or be working on a GED and no felony convictions. That's it. We We had a rule, the Bureau of Prisons has a rule, for example, that prisoners cannot give out the mail. In fact, the prisoners do mail call every day. Why? Because most of the guards can't read.

[26:31] And they can't read the names. So, they have their heads up their asses. Number one. Number two, the cameras never work. I even I even wrote about this in a blog from prison where we had to cancel religious services in the chapel almost every day because when we would go in there to get the chapel ready for whatever religious service was being was being, uh, held. I I was a chapel employee. People were having sex in there

[27:03] because they knew that the cameras in the chapel didn't work and so they wouldn't get caught. Because the cameras never work. Number three, there's that blip in the camera that we learned about months ago. Um, a Bureau of Prisons official told me that that wasn't a blip where the camera was shut off and then turned back on, that it was the camera's normal reset where it takes place every 24 hours because it simply tapes over the previous days, you know, tape just to

[27:36] save tape. They used tape. Um, suicide watch. The Bureau of Prisons is very specific about suicide watch. What suicide watch is supposed to be is the prisoner is stripped naked, given a paper gown because you can't hang yourself with paper, and then put into a room that is glass on three sides. And then they hire other prisoners to

[28:07] sit in a chair like this for 6 hours at a shift and just stare at the prisoner on suicide watch for 6 hours so that you don't commit suicide. And if the prisoner somehow is trying to commit suicide, remember, it's all paper in there. There are no sheets, no blankets, no nothing, then you alert a guard and the guard comes in and prevents the suicide. That's not what Jeffrey Epstein was was on. He had sheets. He had clothes. There was

[28:38] nobody He was in a cell. There There was no, you know, three three walls of glass. There was no prisoner to sit and watch him to make sure he didn't commit suicide. What kind of suicide watch is that? So, I agree with you about the ear. Um, I agree with you about the penis. I I dismissed that until I actually saw it in writing. Um, I think that there are so many more questions now

[29:08] that it would be a criminal act to not release the remainder of the documents so that we could get to the bottom of some of this. And I'll tell you what the real shame is. The real shame is that he was cremated. And so we'll never get to examine that body. To to make things worse, they said there's still 6 million files that were not released. Yes. >> But what the a Channel 4 investigation found that what the FBI claimed they had in terms of data, um, that was confiscated from Epstein,

[29:40] we only know about 2%. So, what we're talking about now that was released is 2% of what the data they have. And based on the other investigations, there's a lot of data that was not confiscated. So, we have a redacted we get we have a redacted part of half of the files of what the FBI has, which is 2% of what of what the DOJ has, which is 2% of what the FBI has, which is a small percentage of what Epstein had. So, we have a sliver of what of of of all the information that should be there. This sounds exactly like the torture report

[30:11] where we've never seen the torture report. What we've seen is a heavily redacted 500-page executive summary of the 5,000-page torture report. So, in the end, we have no idea what that report says. This is exactly the same situation. And you know, even the redactions don't make sense. You know, there were redactions where, for example, there were references to Les Wexner, and just the name Les was redacted, and Wexner

[30:41] wasn't redacted. What What do you make of that? John, do you think the redactions I I can't remember who I was asking that question is um it's very bizarre what they're redacting, what they're not redacting, and they why they're protecting this name that asked Epstein something about the torture video, or told him, "Did you kill her?" or something like that, or age 11, and that name is redacted, but then the name of someone else was not redacted that incriminates the other person. So, I'm saying, is it possible that even the redactions right now being politically or strategically for the

[31:12] interest of the US being redacted? I would have to say yes. And And I'll tell you why I say yes. Um I had a temporary assignment at the CIA where I had to go through literally a 6-ft tall stack of classified finished intelligence reports to be released through the Freedom of Information Act. The stack had been accumulating for years, and finally the National Intelligence Officer asked me if I would just take 4 weeks and do nothing but

[31:43] declassify these documents. And I said yes, and that's what I did over the course of a month. Well, there are very specific rules for what you you redact and what you leave unredacted. Um if something exposes sources and methods, or the name of of a source, or a liaison relationship, or an NSA intercept, really anything having to do with NSA, it has to be redacted. The The rules are much easier when it comes to DOJ and the FBI.

[32:15] Um an unindicted co-conspirator, you can keep redacted because the person hasn't been charged with a crime. A victim, you would want to redact because you want to protect the victim's privacy. Literally nothing else should be redacted. Nothing. It should all be out there, and especially because Epstein is dead. There's no reason to protect Epstein's privacy. He has no privacy. He doesn't exist anymore.

[32:45] Before we move on to more tweets, I want to ask you about what we talked about regarding his death and what his brother said. Um I'm still leaning to the fact that he's dead for one reason. Is it makes no sense for whatever intelligence agency or group or influential person, I would lean more to an intelligence agency considering how it's a very high security prison, it takes a lot to kill such a high-profile person in such a prison, and bury it. Exactly. Maximum security prison, and bury it successfully so till now it's still buried.

[33:16] It makes no sense to keep him alive. Like, why would you keep an asset that has so much information that became a liability alive? That's the only reason I think he's more likely to be dead, and they're they're trying to hide that the the I agree completely. I agree completely. None of it makes any sense. Yeah. And you know what? You know, this this AI image that made the rounds last week, it it made me it made me laugh cuz he's just out there in all of his glory with two or three security guards just walking down the street in Tel Aviv like he owns the place. It's like, come on.

[33:46] You can do that. And right in the middle of the Epstein files, yeah. It Yeah, right. Right in the middle of the Epstein files. It was a it was an AI photo used by Gemini, by Google AI tools. Um I want to before going to another tweet, when I was speaking to the forensic expert, I'm not sure if you you saw that already, he found the note that was found in Epstein's jail was actually an escape plan. So, he was actually scribbling down with really bad handwriting, someone ADHD. He was saying like um writing down the name of countries he could go to, I think Saudi was one of them, Qatar was another, and he was

[34:17] talking about Exactly. The the um the the hurdles he would face, there'll be a um an arrest warrant, an international arrest warrant, Interpol warrant against him, how to avoid that. He's talking about different banks and money he has, and tools he could use. So, for me as well, he it felt like he also signed his will 2 days before he died. So, I feel like a lot of people are like that points towards suicide. I'm like, no. They tried to kill him on July 23rd where the footage was deleted, he was

[34:48] shrieking, and and they failed. He knew he was being killed. He spoke to someone anonymous that might have been someone within the intelligence or someone else saying, "Hey, I think that you know, maybe a friend of his saying, "They're coming after you." So, he knew that he was getting killed. He's trying to come up with an escape plan. He signed his will in case he gets killed, and he was killed. That was my conclusion when I saw the the escape plan or plan if he gets out. Um and he was also entrepreneurial. So, anyone that has that spirit of being an entrepreneur, businessman, cuz he was a

[35:19] horrible criminal, but also a businessman, political um a political connector, someone like that would never give up, would always think, "How do I do this? How do I get over this?" So, that was my conclusion from the him signing off his will and the escape plan. And And you know what? It's actually it's actually very very common in prisons. Literally every prisoner has escape at the very front of his mind. I remember sitting outside in the prison yard and just looking at the

[35:51] fence and thinking, "You know what? When they built that fence, they put the concertina wire on the wrong side. It's supposed to be on the inside, and they put it on the outside. Well, if you climb the fence, you just jump over the concertina wire. If it were on the inside." And I said something to one of the other prisoners, an Italian. I said, "Did you notice the concertina wire was was misinstalled here?" And he said, "Everybody's realized that." He said, "We all think every single day of escaping,

[36:21] and everybody points out that they put the wire on the wrong side of the fence." >> Everyone Everyone Everyone has watched Prison Break. Everyone has watched, and they cheer. They cheer when it's on TV. So, yeah, it's not unusual for for a prisoner to even jot down a couple of thoughts. Not that anything would ever come of it. Um the the other thing I was wondering is all the women he had, do you think it was a honey pot or blackmail operation? Um I'll show you one email just to kind of give you a bit of context. That's under the honey pot blackmail operation,

[36:52] the first tweet. And in the file it it's um a woman it's a bit uh you know, she describes things that are you know, R-rated, but I'll read it out to give you an idea of how women were talking to him and what that points to. So, she's like, "Yes, I'll find out with your email address. I tried your This is a woman, a victim sending it to Epstein. I tried your back massage on a couple of guys at dinner yesterday. They all liked it a lot, and it's it's so easy. I think they all want to [ __ ] me now. One had his girlfriend there. I should be maybe more careful about that. Staying straight makes such a difference

[37:23] as well, crazy. I started finally practicing with one. He really liked the of course twice, so I swallowed quite some yesterday. Sorry about that, John. He actually wanted more and more and only that. I'm still not good at taking it though. I should do it in French, you were right. And the acting and the acting cuz I didn't like much what he was doing, so it was hard. So, she's saying how she didn't actually like the experience, and she's talking about it like a transaction. I'm I'm meant to be interviewing a Russian spy, John, in the next few days, and I've been research researching her, and that what

[37:54] she's talking about, the way she's describing sex, this how that spy that used sex as a weapon was describing sex as a very transactional tool. And next time I need to be even more active, especially at the beginning. I apparently used to be so passive. I didn't even realize it before, so I have to practice more. So, that's a victim sending it to Jeffrey. Putting that along with them other similar emails, and the fact that we know he has cameras in the house, and we saw some grainy footage coming out, a lot of redacted footage of people having

[38:25] sex, but all of it redacted. Um again, some grainy photos which shows low-quality surveillance cameras. Does that look like someone who was just sick? He has cameras for security that caught certain things, or did it look like a blackmail operation to you? It It most definitely looked like a blackmail operation. Lots of people are security conscious. Nobody puts cameras in the bathrooms. And he had cameras in the bathrooms, and literally in every room in all of his houses. So, no, that to me that that was just a

[38:56] part of a blackmail operation. And how do you think from your experience, how do you think it would work? Do you think Jeffrey was a sick man that loved sex, uh and just taking taking it to extreme measures, including going down the disgusting illegal methods, and then the intelligence agencies, whichever one or ones, saw him doing that, and they facilitated it, even encouraged it, but let him do what he wants to do, gave him protection, so they could then collaborate and use the tools? Or is it more likely that the

[39:28] intelligence agency convinced him to start doing that in the first place? Do you think it was his idea and it was facilitated? No, I think that this was this was perfectly intersecting interests. He was a pervert. He was a sex addict. Uh he was interested in intelligence, they were interested in him, and they realized that they could use his perversion uh to further their own interests. This was two parties getting exactly what they wanted.

[39:58] That's what I thought as well. And you saw all the code words as well, John? >> Oh, yeah. >> They It's hard to deny without going to detail. It's hard to deny they're code words, yeah? It just doesn't make sense otherwise. >> Agreed. You saw the one from his urologist saying, "Let's um Yeah. >> um wash your hands and let's go get grab pizza and soda after he takes his after he takes the erectile dysfunction drug." That's right. Erectile dysfunction drugs and then go get a pizza and a grape soda. Exactly. And that's one of many. Um and there's multiple code words as well. Pizza, there's cheese, there's pizza and

[40:29] soda, there's One of them is uh beef jerky is a common one. I don't know what that means. Have you looked into the beef jerky one? No. I've heard it. I've read it, but I don't I don't can't even speculate as to what it means. Really difficult. The pizza pizza soda was easier to to to speculate. And these are terms that's very common for uh pedophiles to use food as code words for um girls, boys, little boys, little girls, person of color, etc. Um I want to open I want to open another one. I'm not sure if you've seen that one. This is about a

[40:59] Wiki Wikipedia editor. That was bizarre cuz we've seen um a lot of people around Epstein, whether it's Ghislaine Maxwell, the owner of the um model agency that trafficked women for Epstein, or victims like Virginia Giuffre and others um that committed suicide or died in mysterious circumstances. Well, we've we've got a story here, and it's in the files, and I've had to verify that one cuz that was really bizarre. Um it's someone I'll read out the tweet. Emails in the newly released files allegedly show someone telling

[41:30] Epstein they were hacking Wikipedia to clean up his page. Fine, reputation management. I spoke to the co-founder of Wikipedia. It's relatively common. Sure. >> his They removed his mugshot, the sex offender label, changed the description to quote businessman philanthropist, and blocked editors who tried reversing the changes. Fine, that's a flaw in Wikipedia. People do this a lot. Wikipedia's been weaponized against me and others. The strategy went further. Flood Google searches with other quote Jeffrey Epsteins to bury negative coverage, monitor alerts, create new websites to

[42:00] control results. The person connected to this effort was later reportedly found at the bottom of a cliff in southern France. As of December 2021, the French authorities still haven't confirmed the death. The files also reference um Isabel Maxwell, which is Ghislaine's Maxwell's sister, a World Economic Forum technology pioneer, co-founder um that was somehow involved in this. Maybe she was facilitating it. But this is someone that was managing Epstein's um reputation that was found dead. No way to explain the and the file

[42:31] numbers in the video that was embedded in that tweet. Um the question I have for you, John, is obviously it's impossible to really know more about this, but how common is it for intelligence agencies to We see it a lot in movies. They kill people that might have too much information. They kill people that could be leaks. They could be seen as a liability. Is that just in movies? Cuz I just don't Or is it really common for intelligence agencies to kill people that were involved in operations um that could become a liability? It's unusual,

[43:02] but I will tell you that well, on one occasion in my own experience, um I was party to a conversation where there was discussion of quietly encouraging a problem source to commit suicide. It's unusual. >> a source that's becoming has become a liability a problem. >> Yeah, there was a source that had become

[43:32] a liability, and there was talk about maybe we should try to convince him just to kill himself, and we would be rid of this problem. Nothing ever came of it. It was a conversation. So, I don't know that it happens, at least not at the CIA, but I know that people talk about it. Now, the Mossad, you know, the Mossad is very much like the Israeli government writ large, where it's survival or death.

[44:03] You have to do literally anything to ensure the survival of the state of Israel, and they'll do literally anything. Uh the Russian spy when I was researching her cuz it was just yesterday, there was a story about how, similar to yours, there was an asset they sent her on a suicide mission to sabotage someone else within the same spy agency, so they were going to get them both killed. Um and it was more but it was more for personal vendetta. It was not the It was not an asset that went rogue or became a liability. It's more of one executive at

[44:35] the intelligence agency was having a power struggle with the other, and and that led to that. So, that was her story. That's Russian intelligence, which I think um more their rules of engagement are a lot more lax um than American ones. I think the American intelligence as as Maybe it is discreet. This is your area of expertise, but American intelligence as, you know, you know, evil they can be at times, MKUltra, etc., do things cross the lines in many uh to advance American interests, I don't think they go as far as um Mossad or Russian intelligence.

[45:07] Agreed. And at the end of the day, um there are oversight committees, and sure, you try to co-opt them, but when push comes to shove, you have to answer to higher authorities. So, yes, you're right. Um this is a a bizarre one, John. Uh I haven't discussed this on on on the show yet. Oh, there's a few things we've discussed haven't discussed on the show, and I'll open this one. It's a a note from Dr. Yaraki. Um he's a a well-known doctor from what I understand. I can't remember his details, but he the document is very bizarre. I want to get your take on it,

[45:38] so and I'll read out the highlights from it. So, it was in May 2009, essentially pretty much when Epstein was arrested and was I think in jail. In that time the book is In that during that time, and he's still facing legal troubles, um the email says, "Mr. Epstein, Dr. Yaraki asks asked me to send you the following notes along with the statement." It's very bizarre. Quote, "I'm thinking of writing a new book, and I need a co-author." And then the book is called What If I Get Caught? Trouble avoidance, computer security,

[46:09] telephone security, avoid signing, check out legal, have a fall guy. Two, pre-trouble protection, safe house, meet a criminal lawyer. Three, post-trouble, disguises, plastic surgeon, document generation, birth certificates, gather evidence on veracity and character of victims of prosecution witnesses. A lot of things that we've seen afterwards in the Epstein files, you know, the the harassment of and the death threats to the victims, for example, the um um the talks of an escape plan, the accomplices. Um it continues. There's one called wife

[46:40] testimony. Uh number four, post-arrest rules, rules about how long before a judge, right to a lawyer, negotiation with interrogator, goals of the prosecutor. We know he did eventually get a sweetheart deal. Um the right jail, choosing the right jail cuz he went to a jail that he could spend 12 hours outside the jail. In the jail he had access to a lawyer, a TV room. He would the the prison guards were asked to serve him and help him instead of guard him. Um he was able to walk free, travel between his different um homes. Um

[47:11] talks about extradition, German law, Israeli law, Brazil. So, this is a a a book that was by Dr. Yaraki, and the way it was sent to him by Cynthia Reed. Says, "Dr. Yaraki asked me to send you the following notes along with the statement. I'm thinking of writing a new book. I need a a co-author." When I first saw this, I'm like, "All right. Well, someone wants to write a book about escaping from jail with a full breakdown of all the things that Epstein either has done or could have done or might have done." Um in 2008 2009 and afterwards in 2018

[47:42] 2019, and it was sent by his assistant with such coded language at such a time. Is that a way that intelligence would communicate with each other? Encoded words like this talking about a book, talking about pizza and grape soda? Absolutely, yes. Absolutely, yes. And And look at it this way, too. If you're Jeffrey Epstein, and you think you've just dodged a bullet, even though you've been convicted. You got this sweetheart deal,

[48:12] but in the back of your mind you're thinking everything could still turn to [ __ ] And if it does, where do I run? I've got my own plane, so that's not going to be a problem. I have to run to a country that does not have an extradition treaty with the United States. So, the two best ones are Brazil and Israel. And Israel doesn't extradite Jews. So, that I mean, that is exactly what it looks like to me. And Epstein was Jewish. >> very very well encoded. It says multiple

[48:43] passports. Epstein had multiple passports. See, and and that You know, of course the Israelis would want to give him a passport. Just in case he needed to run. I think that in the end, in '19, he just didn't expect things to turn as quickly as they did. To the extent it did as well. It was um when the whole world turns against you, you become a liability. It's hard to protect someone like that. May I add something?

[49:14] When I was in prison, there was a very wealthy Jewish attorney who was in prison in my prison on child sex charges, and he had fled to Israel at the first sign of trouble. And um sure enough, we filed an extradition treaty to get him back from the Israelis. The Israelis wouldn't even discuss it. And so, what the Justice Department did, it was ingenious. They knew that this guy had this abiding love of the ballet.

[49:46] And so, they took out ads in Israeli newspapers saying that there was a children's ballet from Russia, and it was coming to Cyprus for one night only. And so, you know, come and see these children dancing, the best children ballerinas, you know, in the world. And this arrogant prick bought a ticket, took the chance of flying to Cyprus to see the ballet, and they grabbed him at the airport. >> How sick would you be if you're so obsessed with raping young girls that

[50:17] would you'd risk getting imprisoned? And first, congratulations on how you guys did it. That was a a perfect plan. I'm surprised it worked. You probably guys would tell this like, "How did How did that work?" He got 20 years, and I'm looking at you, Kenneth. I haven't forgotten about you. 20 years. Um the last thing I want to ask you about uh John is all the people that I implicated. And as we said earlier, the way this has been released is to muddy the waters, and you've got some people that are very involved, um whether it's

[50:48] Banner or or Reid Hoffman. And today, >> that were Fergie, the singer, Black Eyed Peas? I've been watching BBC all day today, and she has had to come out with multiple statements today saying, "I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry." Because Fergie, the singer, yes. Pardon? No, no, no, forgive me. Former Princess >> yes, sorry, sorry. Yes, yes, Ferguson, yes. My bad, yeah. >> Yes. Um she was very close to uh

[51:18] to Jeffrey Epstein. After his conviction, she made public statements, you know, saying she was disgusted, and this is awful, and she'll never speak to him again. And then, she immediately emails him to say, "I'm so sorry I had to say those things about you in public. I love you, and you've always been like a big brother to me." And so, today, people are like, you know, what the [ __ ] Fergie? What are you doing? There's she also I'm sending the tweet to my to my producer now. Um she took

[51:48] her daughter to a party with Epstein 5 days after he left prison for paying a minor for sex. What kind of judgment is that? Her Her daughters were 19 and 20. And uh she also emailed Ferguson's only email to Epstein says, "I can't wait to see you." She said she cut ties immediately, but there's other emails I think she's saying like there's some sort of romantic relationship between them. I don't know if it was I think it was Ferguson, where she's talking about um she was hurt because of his with other women or something along the way ignored her or something along those lines. But

[52:20] showed how close Fergie shutters charity after new Epstein emails, "Just marry me." Uh hold on. Sarah Ferguson, Prince Andrew's ex-wife and the Duchess of York, is closing her charity following fresh revelations from the Epstein files showing she sent him emails calling him a legend writing, "Just marry me." In 2010, that was a year after the the charges where he was convicted of of child sex, of procuring a minor uh for prostitution, I think it was. And that was after yeah, after the 2008 guilty plea for soliciting prostitution from a minor. And a year before she

[52:51] publicly said she'd quote never had anything to do with Jeffrey Epstein ever again. And there's more emails. This is one example. There's another one here about to get back from what she called a shagging weekend. So, they were very, very close. And Prince Andrew, talking about Ferguson, Prince Andrew is heavily implicated, as we know. Um So, does that link to the whole strategy of this being a blackmail operation against all these different people from Les Wexner Wexner to Prince Andrew? Um And if it's all backfiring exploding now,

[53:22] and Epstein is in jail or dead, or was in jail and eventually got killed, would this information still be available? Could all this information still be in the hands of the intelligence agency and be used as we speak? Could they leak new files? Could they release new files or tell the DOJ to release new files now or in 3 years' time? So, could that could all this information that Epstein has collected still be weaponized, or do you think this has blown up so much they're going to bury everything? Well, depending on what the contents are, most of the time, information has a shelf life. And we're

[53:54] going to get to the point eventually where nobody's going to care anymore, or the information's not going to be explosive anymore. But I think that today, speaking specifically about today, I think the answer to your question is is yes. Um and I I want to clarify something, too. I've I've never believed that this was purely a blackmail operation. I always believed that the blackmail was something that whatever intelligence service, most likely the Mossad, could hold over
