Title: John Kiriakou: CIA Hit in Iran's Retaliation Strike — Breakdown of WAR
Show: Dialogue Works
Date: 2026-03-09
URL: https://www.youtube.com/live/8QL0KvdzMzk
Duration: 42:05

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[00:00] &gt;&gt; Hi everybody. Today is Monday, March 9th, 2026 and our dear friend John Kiriakou is here with us. Welcome back, John. Thank you, Nima. It's good to see you again. John, let me start with the war between the United States and Iran. It started with the assassination of the supreme leader of Iran together with one of the most tragic events so far, which was the hit you know, the the attack on a on a

[00:30] primary school in Iran, mostly girls schoolgirls were assassinated were killed by the attack. And Donald Trump, he said he was asked if it was the United States that did this attack. Here is what Donald Trump said. States bombed a girls elementary school in southern Iran on the first day of the war and killed 175 people. Based on what I've seen, that was done by Iran.

[01:00] Is that true, Mr. Hexan? It was Iran that did that? We're certainly investigating. Still investigating. &gt;&gt; But the only the only side that targets civilians is Iran. We think it was done We think it was done by Iran. 10 years ago Iran is very inaccurate, as you know, with their munitions. They have no accuracy whatsoever. It was done by Iran. John, later on there are videos released by the Iranian media, you know, the Mehr News, as is an

[01:30] outlet in Iran. It shows the exact moment of the hitting of of that building. Here is the footage. Then they slow down the the frame. It shows that it was most probably a Tomahawk missile Uh-huh.

[02:00] &gt;&gt; When it comes to such a huge huge mistake or such a huge problem with these targets or many people would say, "Why would someone do that?" And what is the main goal of these sort of attacks? You can hit the military targets. All of these, but when it comes to the kids, what is the main point? What is your understanding of what has happened? First, I want to correct something that

[02:30] Donald Trump said. The Israelis almost exclusively target civilians. It's not that Iran target civilians, it's Israel that target civilians. And there are tens of thousands, more than 100,000 dead in Gaza to prove exactly that. Um listen, as an American I want to believe that this was a terrible mistake, but my brain won't allow me to believe that. My brain my brain wants me to believe that

[03:00] either we did this on purpose or the Israelis did it on purpose. Uh it's to traumatize the Iranian people, to take the fight right out of them. Um I I was talking about this on a podcast um a couple of days ago and I said the problem that we're already facing as a country, here in the United States, is that Donald Trump genuinely believed

[03:30] that as soon as we launched the first missile, the Iranians would be dancing in the streets and the government would fall like a house of cards and everybody would live happily ever after and he would win the Nobel Peace Prize and the Israelis would forever be grateful for our actions. But he was the only person that believed that. Anybody who who follows these issues, anybody could have told him we would not be seen as liberators, we

[04:00] would be seen as invaders and occupiers. Nima, I happen to be in Los Angeles the last couple of days until until last night. And um the the Southern California media keep replaying this demonstration with 200 or 300 Iranian Americans, mostly Jewish, which is quite common in Southern California. Um dancing in the streets, waving the

[04:30] Shah's flag, waving the Israeli flag. And then our friend Max Blumenthal uh released a video of one of his journalists interviewing some of these pro-Shah, pro-Israel demonstrators, Iranian-American demonstrators. &gt;&gt; [snorts] &gt;&gt; And asking them specifically about the the girls that were killed in this strike. And like ghouls like demons

[05:00] they say, "Oh, no, that that's okay. We we're okay with that because, you know, greater good. In the end, it's all going to be for the best. Yeah, it's a shame maybe that these girls were killed, but probably the Iranians did it, but we're okay with it. It's okay to kill children." On the on the one hand, that is so sick that I I don't even have words for it. On the other hand, if you are Benjamin Netanyahu or Donald Trump or Pete Hegseth or Marco

[05:30] Rubio or Itamar Ben-Gvir or any of these other crazy people that are involved embrace what you believe in. If you're so certain that you're right embrace it and say, yes, we killed those children. Yes, and we don't apologize and we're going to kill more children. Own it. At least be honest about it.

[06:00] And they're not even being honest. John, since the war has started, we've seen Iran started with attacking Persian Gulf Arab states and mostly American bases in those states. And how did you find the way that Iranian military has started the war and the United States, you know, first United States together with Israel has strike Iran and then

[06:30] they they came with an strike on Iran. Then we see Iranian attack on Persian, mostly the Persian Gulf Arab states with American bases. Uh-huh. Well, you've been to the region, you know the region, you know what's going on there. What was the strategy on the part of Iranians with the counteroffensive if we can put it that way? &gt;&gt; Well, I think this was actually a very sophisticated strategy. I was in I was in the Persian Gulf 2 weeks ago. I spent a week in Dubai and Abu Dhabi and then 2

[07:00] weeks before that I spent a week in Kuwait. And this was all anybody wanted to talk about. They wanted to know, are the Americans going to attack? And I said, I hate to say it, but I think yes. I said, if there was one thing that I learned in my years at the CIA, it was that if you really want to understand what American military strategy is, watch the movement of American naval vessels. If the United States sends an aircraft carrier with 11

[07:30] or 12 associated ships, that's an aircraft carrier strike force or an aircraft carrier battle group, or two of them, it's because we're serious about attacking. So, I I told my my friends and contacts in the Persian Gulf that yes, I believe the United States would attack, and and they did. Now, the Iranian response has been remarkable. First of all, the Iranians are outgunned. They know they're outgunned. They just don't have the sophisticated,

[08:00] for the most part, hypersonic missiles. They don't have the sophisticated technology that the United States and Israel have. But, they have these cheap, plentiful, reliable suicide drones. Drones where you don't launch a missile from them, you just strap explosives to them and just crash them into the target. And of course, being drones, you operate them remotely. Well, they're very cheap. You know, you can you can [clears throat]

[08:30] build one of these for five or six thousand dollars, ten thousand dollars for a really good one that can go a long distance, like all the way to Israel. It's the future of warfare. It's something that the United States has not fully come to appreciate and understand, but the Iranians do. And so, rather than just heave a rocket at Dubai, which admittedly they've done, and they've hit, you know, a couple of hotels, a an apartment building, for the most part, they've guided these drones into

[09:00] more sensitive targets, US military bases, US Air Force base outside of Doha, the headquarters of the Fifth Fleet in Manama, the US Army base in in Kuwait, and most importantly, oil facilities in the Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia. So, again, Donald Trump, Benjamin Netanyahu, Pete Hegseth, Marco Rubio, they all believe that as soon as we start hitting Iran,

[09:30] the whole country is just going to collapse. And it didn't. And then keep keep this in mind. Trump is on right now as we're speaking and he just said the war could be over soon because it's very complete already. Whatever that means. He just said that. It'll be over soon because it's very complete already. Okay. So, with that interruption um keep it this in mind.

[10:00] For the United States and Israel to to win they have to completely topple the Iranian government &gt;&gt; [clears throat] &gt;&gt; and remove all of their leaders. And we're talking about hundreds and hundreds of of people that have to be removed. And when I say removed I I mean likely killed. And then they have to install a pro-American pro-Israeli government in its place. That is virtually impossible, number

[10:30] one. But number two, for the Iranians to win all they have to do is survive. That's it. If they can just survive this they win. Israel and the United States lose. And I think that we're very quickly coming to that. Isn't that funny? This Trump This Trump uh press conference lasted about 60 seconds. He just came to the podium to say the war could be over soon, it's very

[11:00] complete. Yeah. I John, I think what one of the outcomes of this conflict of this war, it's a war Yes. would be how this war can change the face of the Middle East, the face of, you know, the policies makers in the Middle East because before we had the conflict in Gaza, majority of the people the public

[11:30] opinion was against Israel, but the politicians mostly in the Arab states were somehow trying to play both sides. Yes. And but right now with the war on Iran they see how fragile, how vulnerable they are against a a country that can fire back, that can hit them. &gt;&gt; And it's not we're not talking about it's Iran and Saudi Arabia. Comparing the defense budget of these two

[12:00] countries, Iran Iran is not even comparable to what Saudi Arabia has 10 times the defense budget of Iran but they're not capable of defending themselves. This is a huge fragility within a society that they can they can buy the arms but they cannot defend themselves. That's why they need American base in their country. What is the future for these American bases? Because they were they were calling Putin asking him to do

[12:30] something about what is going on. And we learned from Lavrov from his latest press conference he said, "Did you condemn what Israel and America is doing against Iran? So what why are you expecting we do something about it? You bought all you you you are the main reason of this war happening. What is your understanding of the calculation of these Arab states, the leaders, those decision makers in these countries?

[13:00] I have to say they must be very very disappointed in themselves and very disappointed in the wisdom of this policy because the whole reason for having the United States in the Persian Gulf in such significant numbers after the the liberation of Kuwait in 1991 was so that something like this wouldn't happen. Right? If you've got the world's largest air force base for the Americans, if you have the headquarters of the fifth fleet

[13:30] for the Americans, if you have multiple army bases with 50,000 ground troops for the Americans, and then the Americans can't stop a $5,000 drone from crashing into your luxury hotel or into their own bases, I remember um in the days after the 9/11 attacks, uh President Putin said to President Bush that he was shocked that the Pentagon didn't have any surface-to-air missiles

[14:00] to protect it. Well, guess what? It's almost 25 years later and we don't have surface-to-air missiles to protect much of anything that we have. So, here we are in the in the Persian Gulf and in an active war zone with bases that have been there for two and a half decades, three and a half decades, and we can't even protect them against a $5,000 drone. So, the United States is going to have to come up with a serious reevaluation

[14:30] of its military position, its defensive military position, and the countries of the uh the Arab countries of the Persian Gulf are going to have to reassess just how much value added the US military provides if the US can't even protect itself. Most of the people who voted for Donald Trump he said he's anti-globalist, you know, all of these policies, the new policies are coming to Washington. We're going to have a some sort of change in

[15:00] Washington. So far from what we've seen in Venezuela, in Syria, right now with the war in Iran, do you recognize Donald Trump as against Who who is Donald Trump today? &gt;&gt; this man is. Yeah, I don't know who this man is. Uh well, you know what? I can tell tell who he is. He is a man who's been influenced heavily by Marco Rubio. And Pete Hegseth, frankly. I mean, the conventional wisdom was that Hegseth was an idiot.

[15:30] Um and maybe he was underestimated. Maybe he's not an idiot. Maybe he's just a typical John McCain neo-conservative. Marco Rubio certainly is. He's a cold warrior, anti-communist, anti-Cuba, pro-military cold warrior. And one of the big complaints that people have had about Donald Trump over over the course of years was that Trump tended to parrot back what the last person that he spoke to told him.

[16:00] And when Marco Rubio is both Secretary of State and National Security Advisor, and you're speaking to him every day, and you're speaking to Pete Hegseth every day, and the person that you named Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, you named because you know of his complete loyalty to you, then you're going to essentially turn into John McCain. And I think that's what's happened. Yeah. John, we are Do you think You've just

[16:30] mentioned that Donald Trump said we have completed whatever he had in his mind, but are we in a war of attrition? Are we in some sort of war because on the part of Iranians, when we talk with them, they say that they're prepared for at least they one of the commanders today said with at least eight years because they have this long history of war against Iraq. They know what is that. The economy of Iran has entered in this week. They are getting back to

[17:00] the same policies considering the economy that they had during the Iran-Iraq War, you know, just to subsidize everything, helping the people receiving the basics. And it seems that Iran doesn't feel that this is the end for the conflict. They have to continue the conflict. They don't see a reliable adversary on the other side to talk with, to negotiate with. This is one of the basic problems with the United States. We've learned

[17:30] today from one of Iranian official Kharazi, one of the main, you know, officials, one of the main advisors to the supreme leader of Iran. He said that the negotiation is not the goal anymore for Iran. We are going to bring some sort of problem to the global economy that the whole countries, all countries understand that there has to be a solution, a permanent solution to what's going on

[18:00] because negotiation two times Iran tried to negotiate with the United States. Both time they have failed because the United States attacked them while negotiating. I think that's I think that's right. The United States is not a reliable negotiating partner. It's just not. We pretend to negotiate and then in the midst of the negotiations we just launch military attacks. We've done that more than once. We've done that more than once in the past, you know, 9 months. Um so, yeah, the United States is not a reliable negotiating partner. The

[18:30] Iranians really could inflict serious harm on the global economy by closing the strait. Um it's not a permanent hurt because eventually pipelines are going to be built across Saudi Arabia and countries are going to figure out &gt;&gt; [cough] &gt;&gt; Excuse me. How to get around it eventually. But but for a period of time it could be it could be a serious problem for the global economy. You mentioned the Iran-Iraq War and I think that's very important, Emma.

[19:00] Because this is something that Americans don't understand. First of all, most Americans have never heard of the Iran-Iraq War. And even the ones that remember the Iran-Iraq War have probably forgotten just how bravely Iranians fought. It was the Iranians that were the victims of aggression. It was Iraqi aggression. And it wasn't just that the Iraqis were aggressors. The Iraqis were electrifying the swamps to electrocute Iranian soldiers in southern Iraq or along the Shatt al-Arab.

[19:30] It was the use of chemical weapons against Iranians and against the Kurds in the north of Iraq. And the Iranians still couldn't be defeated. So, that's why I said a few minutes ago that the United States and Israel to to actually declare victory would need an unequivocal clear-cut victory where Israel opens an embassy in

[20:00] Tehran and everybody, you know, is friends. It's never ever going to happen. And instead, I think what's going to happen is the Iranians are going to prove to be far more resilient than the West gave them credit for being. And they're going to they're going to fight back and bog the West down. And in the in the end, the West is going to have to withdraw like the US did from Iraq, like the US did from Afghanistan and Somalia and Libya and Syria and all

[20:30] these other places where where things have gone wrong. John, what the Trump administration, the United States under the Trump administration is trying to to do reminds me of what has happened during in 1953 against Mohammad Mosaddegh. He was the you know, democratically elected prime minister of Iran. He There was a coup coup d'état by the CIA and MI6. And how is Do you think the same policies

[21:00] that eventually led to the collapse of the British Empire or the serious problems that the American Empire is dealing with. Are they suffering from the same sort of, you know, policies, the same sort of strategies? I'm glad you brought that up actually. I think the answer is is a clear yes. Uh you know, Nima, the US defense budget is untenable.

[21:30] The US defense budget now is $1 trillion. It is bigger than the next It is bigger than the next now nine countries, nine largest countries combined. And in the meantime, here in the United States, we have third-world level airports, our hospitals are outdated, our roads are in terrible condition, our bridges are falling into the rivers below them.

[22:00] Why do the Chinese have bullet trains that go 500 km/h? Why don't we have bullet trains? Because we spend all of our money on weapons. Donald Trump said as recently as a year ago that he wanted to cut the federal budget by by 50%. Sorry, the Pentagon budget by 50%. I celebrated. I actually wrote an op-ed about it. And then he just completely changed his mind, did a 180, and said he wants to spend an additional half a trillion

[22:30] dollars. Well, we're only a few years away from the interest payments on the national debt being being the number one biggest expenditure in in government. We can't keep doing this. We don't have the money. We've mortgaged future generations. And for what? We have nothing to show for it. So, I don't think this is tenable. And at the same time, another thing is uh the fact that Iran is a member of of

[23:00] BRICS. Eventually, not tomorrow, but eventually there's going to be a unified currency. And when that happens, it's going to pose a significant, serious challenge to the international domination of the dollar, especially the petrodollar. And that's going to be the beginning of the end for the US empire. John, how do you describe the relationship between Benjamin Netanyahu and Donald Trump today? Because Donald

[23:30] Trump is begging, simply begging the president of Israel to pardon Benjamin Netanyahu. Why is that? What does Benjamin Netanyahu have on Donald Trump that he he tries so hard every time? He tries to do everything Benjamin Netanyahu is asking for. I think what it is is that Jewish Americans have such a financial hold over American elections

[24:00] that if you want to run for office in this country, you have to be not just Zionist, but you have to be an unquestioning, down-the-line, 100% Zionist. And we know that Donald Trump in his three different campaigns for for president uh received hundreds of millions of dollars from Miriam Adelson, for example, and Sheldon Adelson before her. It was Sheldon Adelson who paid out of

[24:30] his pocket to move the American embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. It was Sheldon Adelson who sent his private jet to take the traitor Jonathan Pollard uh from his prison to uh Israel, where he promptly got off the plane, kissed the ground, was met by Benjamin Netanyahu, and then advocated Jewish Americans using violence against the American government. I feel like we're practically occupied. Our our politics are occupied here because of the role of money in our

[25:00] elections. And I think that's why Donald Trump is so under the the spell of Benjamin Netanyahu. It's not necessarily that it's Netanyahu personally. It's those rich American Jewish uh oligarchs with their checkbooks out telling Trump, "Look, if it's worth it for you,

[25:30] I'll give you a hundred million dollars, but you have to do what I say when it comes to Israel." And I think that's what we've seen. How do you see the war continuing and is that going to be a Because many people are arguing that this could get nuclear. What are the condition under which you feel that war can get nuclear? And what would be the objective of that sort of

[26:00] attack? I I hate to even speak these words, Nima, but I I think that there is a possibility that it could go nuclear. It would be, of course, on the part of the Israelis. Independent analysts believe that the Israelis have between 80 and 200 nuclear weapons. The Israelis deny They don't deny, they just refuse to comment on whether or not they have a program. The Israelis are not signatories to the nuclear nonproliferation treaty. So, nobody's doing inspections, for example,

[26:30] of Israeli nuclear sites. But, they've had nuclear weapons since the 1950s. Um I think that if if an Iranian military victim uh victim if an Iranian military victory were increasingly clear and if the Iranians were successful in destabilizing the Arab uh countries on on the peninsula side of the Persian Gulf. Or if they if the Iranians posed a

[27:00] genuine threat, military threat to Israel, I could see the situation going nuclear. Yes. And what would be the outcome? Let's Let's assume that they're going to use a nuke on Iran or two fire. So, how is that going to help Israel? It doesn't. I think it starts World War III. They

[27:30] They've calculated that that chaos is to their benefit. I don't think they, for example, have any real thoughts of defeating Hezbollah, for example. But they can turn Lebanon into a place of chaos. Chaos is good if you're Israeli. I think that their calculation is if they can turn Iran into into Libya,

[28:00] that's to their benefit because then the Iranian people are going to be fighting each other. Or they're going to be more worried about where to find food or water or medical care than they're going to be about fighting Israel. So, chaos is to Israel's benefit. One of the most interesting, you know, moves on the part of the United States today is sending invading Iran on the ground.

[28:30] And they're talking about using Kurdish, you know, groups in Iraqi Kurdistan and then bringing them down. Today we've learned from Erdogan Turkey, he said that these people are not going to do that because they know they're they're they're smarter they're smarter than going than being &gt;&gt; [snorts] &gt;&gt; used by the United States in that direction. &gt;&gt; And they're smarter. Is that is that a warning in your opinion on the part of

[29:00] Erdogan because there is not just a threat against Iran. It's going to be a threat against Turkey, Iraq, and but after all, John, when it comes to Iran, I really when I was in you know I feel like I I was in Iran for 40 days. I talked each and every aspect of the war. If it happens, what would you do? What They're not when you talk with officials, they're not saying you know the way it is, but

[29:30] they're giving you some sort of you know understanding of what would happen. Right. They said that there is no possibility of the ground invasion in Iran. Because they're going to be if the United States decides to do it, they see they saw this is not going to happen by the United States. It's going to be like the way that Donald Trump is trying to do by Kurdish people, these people. And they said that they're not going to do anything. They're not

[30:00] worried about. This is the last thing to be worried about. What is your understanding of that? I think I have a couple of thoughts. First, I think Donald Trump would have to be clinically insane to put US troops on the ground in Iran. That would be a death wish. And I can't believe that anybody in any position of authority in the American government wants to see that happen. That just is crazy to me. Like did we learn no lesson at all in Afghanistan and Iraq?

[30:30] It just I can't imagine it happening. With that said, I would take that Kurdish argument far more seriously if it had come out of the mouth of somebody other than than Erdogan. Erdogan hates all Kurds and this is something that that he's always been wrong about. Erdogan pretends that the Kurds are a monolith. That Iran Iran's Kurds are the same as Iraq's, they're the same as Turkey's, they're the same as Syria's.

[31:00] That's just not true. There are there are different cultures, there are different dialects, and vastly different politics. I remember when we were getting ready to attack Iraq in 2002-2003, Erdogan hated that we were working with Iraq's Kurds. He hated it. Well, of course we were working with Iraq's Kurds. They were going to provide

[31:30] much of the fight against Saddam Hussein, which they did. Well, it stands to reason that if you don't want to put your own boots on the ground, that what you might want to do is convince Iran's Kurds to attack, to make a faint toward Tehran. They would never make it to Tehran, of course, but at least make a move to make it look like they're moving toward Tehran, to draw out the IRGC, so that Israel and the United States could hit the IRGC.

[32:00] I I just my I can't wrap my brain around American boots on the ground in Iran. It makes no sense. But I could definitely see the United States talking or tricking Iran's Kurds into making a move. Actually, there was a you know, they invited on Fox News the Patriot Union of Kurdistan leader Talabani. And on Fox News he they were he was asked about, you know, using the Kurdish people to to do some sort of invasion in

[32:30] Iran. Here is what he said, John. God there is a head. The president is suggesting that he would only accept unconditional surrender in his words to a reporter. Um So, you don't see that right now that this is on the cusp of happening. &gt;&gt; Yeah. I don't, sir. No, I don't see that right now. I think that um the regime is been planning for this for 45 years.

[33:00] And you can expect a fierce resistance. Um the definition of regime change is important. What is the definition of regime change? And is there a is there an off-ramp? Because some could argue that most mission parameters have been achieved. So, is there an off-ramp where now perhaps we can try to resolve this diplomatically? Yeah, I think that from the administration, at least listening to them, taking out the ballistic missile capability,

[33:30] um making sure that Iran never gets a nuclear weapon um was was the original objective going in. Exactly. &gt;&gt; The Iran The Israelis clearly are um more wanting specific regime change to get a different leader in its place that that uh the US and Israel can work with. I understand that. And I think that Mr. Bear, the conditions I keep hearing the comparisons to 2003. I think the conditions are very different to 2003. In 2003, there was

[34:00] legitimate, well-known, respected opposition to Saddam among the Shiites, among the Kurds. Um I don't really see that in Iran now. Um there isn't a standard, a symbol for people to follow. And that will make it very difficult. Uh troops on the ground with the country the size of Western Europe I'm not sure if that's feasible, either. But there are many options, and I think the US administration is wise enough to modify their position as the battle changes and as the

[34:30] battlefield changes, Yeah. Bafel Talabani, listen, Bafel Talabani is an important guy, and he has been around for a long time, he and his family, and they really understand the situation on the ground. Yeah. You you mean that he's he's partly John he he's from Iran? He's from Iraq? He's from Iraq. His father was Jalal Talabani.

[35:00] &gt;&gt; Bunny. He was the founder of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan and became president of Iraq after Saddam's uh execution. So, there were there were two primary Kurdish parties in northern Iraq, the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan and the uh KDP, the Kurdish Democratic Party. So, it was Jalal Talabani and Masoud Barzani. Uh they were rivals, but they basically worked together, and now that Iraq is,

[35:30] you know, free and independent, they have autonomy for the Kurdish people in the Kurdish areas of the north. Yeah. One of the things that was used the terms that Donald Trump loves to use is unconditional surrender. Yeah. Pete Hackett was asked in his latest interview on 60 Minutes, he was asked, "What does that mean?" He said that it means we are fighting to

[36:00] win. What does it mean to you, John? We we're fighting to win. What [snorts] You know, only an old man would say something like that, or somebody whose mentality is that of an old man. What Donald Trump is talking about when he says unconditional surrender is sitting across a table from whoever happens to be the leader of Iran at at any given time. And forcing them to sign articles of

[36:30] surrender. Just like we did to the Japanese at the end of World War or just as we did to the Germans at the end of World War II. That's not real life anymore. That's not the way the world works anymore. There won't There won't be any more scenarios where, you know, all the generals from the American side are here, all the generals from the Iranian side are here. The Iranian generals take out their guns and hand the guns to the Americans to signify surrender. They put

[37:00] the contract in front of the Iranians and the Iranians sign the contract saying we surrender, the Americans are in charge now. That will never ever happen. So, when Pete Hegseth says unconditional surrender, I genuinely believe, Nima, that he doesn't have any idea what he's talking about. He genuinely doesn't know what he's supposed to say when somebody says, "What does that mean? What does that term mean?" He doesn't know.

[37:30] Yeah. what was the understanding of the Trump administration or what is the understanding that they have removed the supreme leader of Iran and his son right now is the supreme leader of Iran? Yeah, you know, I Nima, this is just &gt;&gt; they have any understanding? Because before all of this sadness, all of this chaos happening, we were talking about

[38:00] it. What is the point of killing the supreme leader of Iran? And they've done that and right now what was the outcome? Is there anybody asking Donald Trump this question? No. Nobody's asking him, but but many of us can speculate. Donald Trump, again, he truly believed that if he killed Ayatollah Khamenei, that the whole government would just

[38:30] fall apart within 24 or 48 hours, Iranians would take to the streets chanting USA USA, and that everybody would live happily ever after. I was on a podcast last week and I I likened this to killing the Pope. If you kill the Pope, you're not going to bring down global Catholicism. They just choose a new Pope. Well, if you kill

[39:00] the supreme leader, they just choose a new supreme leader. That's all. He was 86. He wasn't going to live forever. There had already been discussion about who would uh who would rise through the ranks to to take the the position after he departed the scene. There was never any possibility that Iran would just collapse because you killed an 86-year-old man.

[39:30] Yeah, it's but it seems that John, this is the failure on the part of the intelligence who are giving Donald Trump this sort &gt;&gt; Ah. or or &gt;&gt; That's a good question. Listen, after 15 years in the CIA, either working on Iran or adjacent to Iran, I spent most of my career on Iraq, but you can't do Iraq without doing Iran. Um [snorts] I can tell you that at the CIA they they have a very deep understanding of Iran

[40:00] and Iranian politics and Iranian history. It's a it's a neo-conservative understanding. So, at the end of the day, it's flawed. But, I'm confident that Donald Trump's position that Iran would fall apart did not come from the CIA. With that said, he has so politicized analysis from the CIA, it is possible that CIA analysts were afraid to tell

[40:30] the truth because they didn't want to lose their jobs and be fired if he didn't like the analysis. You mean that he was receiving intelligence from Mossad instead of receiving from Mossad? 100% 100% yes, he was receiving intelligence from Mossad. Yes. I don't think it was any kind of accident that Netanyahu came here seven times in 11 months. That's a long trip. That's like an 11-hour trip.

[41:00] And he did it seven times in 11 months. Yeah. Yeah. It's unbelievable. John, it was a great pleasure to talk to you Pleasure's always mine. It's good to see you again. You too. John, are you going to I I think you mentioned that Donald Trump is still talking. He he just wrapped it up or he's just &gt;&gt; He he spoke for like 3 minutes. Yeah. He

[41:30] just He came out and said, "We're We're launching new strikes right now. The war's almost over. And we've just about won everything." Yeah. See, but that's also a very Donald Trump thing to do. Just declare victory and go home. Yeah. Well, let's let's see what would happen. Yeah. &gt;&gt; [laughter] &gt;&gt; It's strange. It's strange. Yeah. See you soon, John. Thank you. &gt;&gt; Good to see you, Nima. All the best. &gt;&gt; Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
