Title: Ex-CIA John Kiriakou: Israel, Epstein & The Swamp's Holy Mess
Show: The Jeff Dornik Show
Date: 2026-05-19
URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpYOPBtKvrk
Duration: 1:01:08

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[00:00] For we are opposed around the world by a

[01:00] monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covet means for expanding its sphere of influence, on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has

[01:30] conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightlyk knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific, and political operations. Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silent, not praised. That that is by design. Because as long

[02:00] as we're fighting against each other, then then the powers of be can kind of do whatever they want. The the agencies can go rogue and do what they want. If we're fighting each other over these personality wars, it's it's a distraction from what's really going on. Imagine if we were all talking about what's our worldview, what do we believe? Why do we believe it? Hey guys, welcome to this episode of the Jeff Dornick Show. Thank you guys so much for tuning in again. Make sure you guys are subscribing on on Rumble for

[02:30] the Jeff Jordan show, but also you guys can now go over to look up Freedom First Network on Rumble as well. We're officially relaunching that along with my good friend uh you know Robbie who's going to be handling a lot of the day-to-day operations over there. So we're going to be relaunching Freedom First Network bringing on a bunch of amazing amazing shows. Um everything from the OGs of like two mics with two mics with Dr. Michael Shyer and Colonel Mike all the way over to Battlefront Front Line Bob and Eric Save America. Then a bunch of new shows like the Shannon Joy Show and the TMI show and drogram and all that kind of stuff. So,

[03:00] make sure that you guys are subscribing to Freedom First Network on Rumble. And we've got a whole host of shows that will be going live over there. Uh, one final thing as well before we go live. Make sure uh you uh make sure you guys go over to supermassiveblack coffee.com. Super massivelblack coffee.com. Coffee company that I that I started all organic coffee beans, gourmet, fire roasted in an antique Victorian era coffee roaster. So, make sure you guys are going over there, order a bag today. Use promo code Jeff at checkout. You guys will get 20% off over at supermassiveblack coffee.com. Without further ado, we are bringing on our

[03:30] guest for today. We've got John Kier. I always mispronounce your name. &gt;&gt; How your Latin Kiryaku &gt;&gt; Kiryaku? Yes. Uh, welcome welcome to the show. I'm glad we can sit down and chat for a bit and I I've been I've been want to kind of pick your brain uh quite a bit as as of late just with everything going on. Uh because it because it seems like uh you know you know like I've had Dr. Michael Shawyer on my show who's al who's who's also former CIA and it's interesting because I think you guys have somewhat different experiences but

[04:00] then also you guys come to a lot of the exact same conclusions about what's going on in the world. Everything from the agencies to you know should the CIA even exist anymore to Israel. It it's really wild when you think about it. &gt;&gt; You know I sat 10 feet from Mike for for quite some time in the counterterrorism center. He and I approach problems from extreme opposite perspectives. He from the right, I from the left. And we we meet more often than not. We agree more

[04:30] often than not. I have deep respect for Mike Shyer. I have from the very day that I met him. And I think that he was not just underestimated at the CIA. He was disrespected at the CIA, at the CIA's peril. Mike's a Mike's a great American. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Well, it's I I think I think it's really interesting because uh obviously like you know and I and I've seen it because you know it was interesting because I you know we had two mics which is his his podcast on Freedom First

[05:00] Network that we launched back in I think it was 2020 which which is pretty crazy and their show was a big reason why we got censored because you know you know he's out there talking about all these things and and we got we got labeled by you know right-wing watch and everybody is far extremist and all that and it's like now you're seeing everything that he talked about coming to come to fruition especially dealing with Iran and Israel and having a lot of those conversations. It's really interesting how it's like, you know, there's certain people where they're talking and then and then you fast forward a couple of

[05:30] years and all of a sudden it's like they were proven right the entire time. &gt;&gt; Yeah, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. And you know, these are issues that we should be talking about. We should be questioning American foreign policy. time was really until the mid 1990s where differences in foreign policy ended at the shore, right? As Americans, we spoke with one voice on foreign policy. That ended in the mid 1990s and now we're beating each

[06:00] other up over foreign policy. It makes the country weaker and it shouldn't be happening. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Well, so I I think and I think especially when it comes to what what foreign policy, I feel like there's a lot of different there's a lot of different angles that that that are all kind of attacking simultaneously. And you know, obviously you've got okay, Israel's influence over our politics, over our elected officials, our politicians. uh you know there there's all but then the question is is that okay so there's a lot of times there's talk about MSAD there's talk about CIA

[06:30] who's involved who's over like not overseeing but who's influencing the other do do you find do you find that it's kind of mutually both are kind of combating with each other or do you or do do you think that one is more influential than the other especially when it comes to our involvement uh going on in the Middle East? Oh yeah. I think the Israelis are far more um influential in the United States than the United States is in in Israel. In Israel, you know, among the Israeli public, the United States, of course, is very popular, but the Israelis really

[07:00] chafe at what they feel is American um u intervention, especially in their politics. They really don't like it. They don't like to be told what to do and they especially resent it when the United States or the US government really doesn't fall into lock step. They they want our support. They want our money. They want subsidies. They want our weapons and our weapon systems, but they don't want to be told what to do.

[07:30] And uh frankly, we need to tell them more what to do. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Well, you know, well, and and I think I think that this is where it's like there's there's the there is the extremist conspiracy theories about MSAD and then but but and I think that some of them go way too far, but then also then there's but there's also a certain amount of truth that go that that's there. And one of the concerns that I have in in a lot of in a lot of these uh conversations that I'm seeing happening online is that it almost feels like certain people are taking things so far

[08:00] to the extreme on both on both ends and then it kind of discredits the legitimate questions that that there really are in in regards to their involvement in in a variety of angles. &gt;&gt; Yeah. I mean the truth of the matter is Mossad actively spies on the United States. They have dozens more more than hundreds of uh of spies across the United States, mostly in American defense contractors stealing American defense secrets. We give 99%

[08:30] of what we have in the defense industry to Israel. And they are out there stealing that last 1% that we're withholding from them. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Which which is which is crazy when you think about it. and and and I think I think that you know it's like whether you're again with with again there's a variety of issues going on simultaneously but but it feel it feels like there's there's definitely subversive forces that are happening behind the scenes whether again whether you're talking whether you're talking about you know our own agencies ver you

[09:00] know you got the CCP that's dealing with a wholeo a whole host of crap going on as well and and and it's like okay so you know we you know you know the American people elected President Trump to get in there and root out the deep state I Cash Patel on my show talking about government gangsters and doing all that and then you know a lot of people myself included are sitting here like okay so when is this actually going to happen and it's like is is it that you know the deep state is too deeply entrenched in in the government that they can't be rooted out or is it that

[09:30] you know these guys are compromising or they never really intended to from the beginning. What's your assessment just from the outside looking in? &gt;&gt; Where do you even begin man? You know, you you just made me think about Cash Patel. I have um I have been a supporter of Cash Patel's from the very beginning. And a friend of mine emailed me yesterday and said, "What do you say about Cash Patel now? He went snorkeling at the USS Arizona. That is a military cemetery." Yeah, he did. He went

[10:00] snorkeling at the USS Arizona. That's a very bad look. But it has nothing whatsoever to do with his his work to to prevent the weaponization of the federal government against political figures. That's what I care about. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; I care about the FBI not being used as a cudgel to smash the heads of people who speak out against wrongdoing in government. So yeah, Cash Pel should not have gone snorkeling at the USS Arizona.

[10:30] But in the greater scheme of things, I don't care that he did. I want to know if he's at the FBI representing the Constitution and ensuring that the FBI is not used as a weapon against whistleblowers. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Well, so so how how do you how do you feel that that he's been handling everything in there in the FBI? Because I because I think because I've I've talked to some people where they've they've completely given up on somebody like Cash Patel leading the FBI and they said that like literally he should not

[11:00] be the head of the FBI because clearly he's either compromised or like something's going on. The other side is that you know maybe he's secretly working behind the scenes and he can't publicly come out and say all the things that he's doing and but he's really doing a phenomenal job and it's just we got to we got to be patient and trust the plan and all that kind of stuff. Where do you fall uh on on on all that kind of stuff? I you know what? To tell you the truth, Jeff, I I don't think I have I don't think I've come to a conclusion yet. Um I I'm trying really

[11:30] hard to separate these personal foibless &gt;&gt; with overall policy. It appears that he's got a drinking problem. Um it appears that he has inappropriately used government resources to support his girlfriend. You know, free government plane trips, for example. Um, but I keep telling myself that there's a greater good here. And the greater good is is is not allowing the FBI to be used as a

[12:00] weapon. Like it was used against me. And so I'm still hoping for the best. I My friends complain that I am overly optimistic about life, and that's okay. I I'll take that. I'll accept it. But I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt and see what it is that he can accomplish. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Yeah. That that that makes sense. And and I think I think that it's I think that for me the way the way that I often times look at things is is that

[12:30] yes, there there can be all different kinds of things that happen and you know things take a lot longer than I think people want it to take. Uh you know I think we think they can just go in there and they can just fix it all. I I think for me where where I begin to get concerned is I feel like sometimes we're being gaslit by by our own government. We're being gaslit by Cash Patel and Bonino telling us that well clearly the EV the evidence shows us that Jeffrey Epstein killed himself or we're going to release this video and then the video doesn't really show us. It's like why why are you gaslighting us as opposed to

[13:00] just saying we we don't know or we're investigating or something along those lines. I think that's to me where my red the red flags start going up and I'm like okay what what's going on here? &gt;&gt; Yeah. It's like they're weighing it. You know, when that video is released, as an example, &gt;&gt; um there's there's a second where there's just a blip, a momentarily momentary blip in the video, and then people are LIKE, "OH MY GOD, THERE'S A BLIP IN the video. It was edited." Actually, no. All the cameras in the Bureau of Prisons reset themselves every

[13:30] 24 hours. That's what the blip was. So, why didn't they just explain that? say, "Listen, at uh, you know, x time you're going to see a little blip in the video. What that is is the camera resetting itself, you know, for its 24-hour cycle." Just be transparent about it. But I agree with you. Don't say, "We are going to go in there and we're going to drain the swamp and we're going to clean it out when you know you can't do that." &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; You know, you can't.

[14:00] &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; It's just not possible. &gt;&gt; Right. Well, and and I think that that that I think is is the real question is can can our corrupt government where you know the the swamp has is like has basically created their own system that's clearly not guided by the United States Constitution. It's not guided by protecting our constitutional rights. It's it's keep people in power, you know, run the show secretly subversively, the whole deal. It's like, can it be reformed or is it just so far

[14:30] gone that it's irreformable? &gt;&gt; You know, I think it actually can be reformed. But what we need to reform it is a period like we saw in the mid 1970s with the creation of the church and pike committees where there's got to be this national consensus that we're in a state of crisis. Donald Trump, whether you like him or you don't like him, was right when he said that we've got a swamp and the swamp needs to be drained

[15:00] and that the swamp is run by swamp creatures and these creatures are in government forever and they never leave. All of that was true, but we need this national consensus to change the actual structure of government. And we're just not there. &gt;&gt; Yeah, &gt;&gt; we're not there. It's not like people are appointing the likes of Chuck Schumer. Chuck Schumer at all are elected. They're elected because the people in those states and those districts want them as their

[15:30] representatives. We have to get beyond that to a point where people are thinking about the the country as a whole entity, not just in your specific state or your specific district. And we're just not there. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Well, and and I think a lot of that comes back to, you know, this two-party political, not even system, but I think the mindset that people have is in in that it's, you know, it's party politics. We have to support our team. And and for me, the way that I look at it as well is that, you know, I've

[16:00] traditionally always voted Republican. I'm conservative, Christian, like like the whole deal. How? However, you know what I've been seeing, especially I think post Trump getting into office. One of my concerns is that I'm seeing the Republican party and I' we've seen this on on the Democrat party too, is that positions that they held a couple of years ago, now they've done a 180 and hold a completely different position. And it's the exact same people. And I'm not even talking the politicians like my friends that are just random people walking down the street. They have a completely different out worldview than

[16:30] they did 5 years ago just because their party flipped positions. It's really crazy like how they've been able to get away with that. And I think that that's part of the problem of how do you get consensus and how do you get people upset at the system enough to to you know reform it? &gt;&gt; Oh yeah. &gt;&gt; If we're talking about you Lindsey Graham um John Federman. Yes indeed. Um yeah. Oh my god. You know every once in a while in a wave election these guys are

[17:00] just swept out. We saw it in 1974, in 1980. We saw it again in 1994. Uh we need another wave election one way or the other where these guys are just swept out and we can start fresh. We also, you know, have been the victims nationally of some very, very poor

[17:30] Supreme Court decisions. Citizens United was the worst Supreme Court decision of our generation. That finding that corporations are people and that corporations thus can donate unlimited amounts of money. Okay. So, you just allowed corporations to buy America's democracy. That's it. It's a corporate democracy, plain and simple. Telling people that it doesn't really matter what your vote is because

[18:00] hundreds of millions, billions of dollars of corporate money is going to be spent to to sway elections. So, we don't really care what you think. Terrible, terrible decision. You know, a couple of times political figures like um Russ Fineold and John McCain, for example, when they had McCain Fineold had a real that was a real effort to even the playing field and to make government more responsive to the American voter and it passed and it was

[18:30] signed into law and the Supreme Court threw it out in Citizens United. So, I think we're really stuck in the mire and the and the muck right now. And there's there's no way out. And there's no way out because we're so divided politically as a country. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Well, yeah, we we we are. And it's like we're while we're all fighting ourselves, it's like the the powers that be are just, you know, go going rogue and do doing whatever whatever the heck whatever the heck they want to a certain degree. And I think that I think that this is where it's like when I I think I don't even think that we have a really

[19:00] officially a consensus on &gt;&gt; who is the deep state just based on a lot of the conversations that I've had which is it's like how do we fix the problem if we can't even address who it is because it's like you know depending on who you talk to it's you know some people say there's 13 families that run the whole world. Other people say it's the intelligence agencies that are gone rogue and they're they're running the show and everything. And then, you know, one of one of the things that uh I woke up to because I I I left team Trump in the last presidential election and backed RFK Jr. when he was running. And

[19:30] one of the things that Kennedy kept talking about obviously was the agencies, but then also the corporate capture that's going on simultaneously as well. And it seems like the swamp is multifaceted. And I think I think that that's what makes it that much more difficult to figure out how do we actually fix this because there's multiple different variations of what's really going going on and who's calling the shots. Yeah, I think that's right. And and think of it this way, and this is specific to the CIA, but you can you can carry it across government. Um,

[20:00] government has something called the senior executive service. At the CIA, it's called the senior intelligence service. At the commerce department, it's the senior commercial service. At state, it's the senior foreign service. It's the executive level above the GS, you know, 1 through 15 grades. Those senior executives are going to be in government for 30, 35 years, in some cases 40 years. Presidents come and go every four years

[20:30] or every eight. And these people are there forever. And you can't fire them because of the Civil Service Act. And they're the ones that run government. And if a president orders something that they don't like or they don't want to do, they just ignore them. Then they know that they can slow roll it or they can wait him out and he won't be president after a while and then they'll just hope for the best with the next guy. &gt;&gt; Yeah. So, so, so, so then what what what

[21:00] can we do in the in this scenario where where it's like, okay, it it when you think about it, it doesn't matter who who the president is. It's like if if the if the deep state and the bureaucracy doesn't agree with them, they can just kind of either either ignore it like you said, slow walk it, you know, the whole deal. What what can be actually done then? I think what we need to do is I think the president needs to sign an executive order essentially saying that the policy is the policy and the policy will be

[21:30] carried out post haste as soon as it is it is determined and signed by the president and that and this is an important second part once that policy is determined and signed if it is not carried out there will be sanctions and then carry out those sanctions We don't do that. We We've never done that. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Yeah. That that that makes sense. And and and I think, you know, and again, I think I think there's there's constantly the question of of, you know,

[22:00] why don't the presidents take on the bureaucracies, especially especially the the agencies, whether you're talking talking about the, you know, the departments within the DOJ or the CIA or or things like that. It it it feel it feels like, you know, Trump was the first one that really t started talking about and being being at odds with the CIA probably since JFK that I that I can think of. &gt;&gt; Yes. &gt;&gt; Um but when push comes to shove, it seems like there hasn't been the the meaningful steps in order to counter

[22:30] them. If is that does that make sense? &gt;&gt; Yes. Yeah. You know, there was a real real move to reform in the direction of reform 1975-76 with the the advent of the church and pike committees. Those morphed into the Senate select committee on intelligence and the house permanent select committee on intelligence which were supposed to be the oversight committees are which are the oversight committees. They really were the oversight committees for about seven years.

[23:00] And then under Ronald Reagan and during the period now known as Iran Contra, they became really little more than cheerleaders for the CIA. And it's just gotten worse ever since to the point where they don't really oversee anything. They just rubber stamp everything and they provide a budget. Whatever the agencies want, the agencies get and nobody pays any kind of price for wrongdoing.

[23:30] &gt;&gt; Yeah. Which which which I think which I think is is obviously really frustrating to to a lot of us where we're like, okay, so okay, you you know, you you'll bring in the head of the CIA and ask ask questions, you know, at these Senate hearings or things like that, but you know, then then they basically say they can't answer and then what happens? they basically just kind of like let it go and it goes about and and they get their their quick hit for social media post and then they they move move on with their day. And I think that's &gt;&gt; that's what that I I think is what's frustrating because there's a lot of legitimate questions that like everyday

[24:00] Americans have about what's going on. Feels like there's no transparency and I get on one hand you've got national security stuff, but then on the other hand not everything can be national security and it's it's kind of like who who works for who here. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, we're going to have to make some hard decisions starting at the very top and working their way down and we just haven't gotten there yet. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Well, yeah. And and and I think that really it it to me it feels and in the sentiment of people that I talked to, it feels like

[24:30] &gt;&gt; the the whole Epstein case seems to be &gt;&gt; that thing that's really waking a lot of people up to, okay, there like this is a lot more corrupt than I think even just everyday people thought. Um and and it it it it feels like a cover up uh going on and and it's but then the question becomes who's orchestrating the cover up? Why are they orchestrating the cover up? And I mean if they if they even are because it's like you talked to some people it's they're clear they're covering up for Assad. Other people they're covering up

[25:00] for the FBI. Other people they're covering up for for the CIA and everybody was everybody was involved in this. But who was actually involved and why? And like it it just it just feels like I don't even know if we're ever going to get straight answers on this thing. &gt;&gt; Yeah, I have to agree with you. I have to agree with you. I was talking to my friend Scott Horton the other day. Scott is God one of the country's leading libertarian thinkers, absolutely brilliant uh analyst. And he was saying we were talking about

[25:30] the Israeli nuclear program. Well, I I'm a I'm a private citizen and my position is that of course Israel has a nuclear program. Um, but the United States government does not admit that Israel has a nuclear program. The Israelis certainly don't admit that they have a nuclear program, but everybody on the planet knows that they do. And the conventional wisdom is that they have between 120 and 220 nuclear weapons, nuclear missiles. Um I have a friend who a former boss of

[26:00] mine at the CIA who wrote a book um a historical book on looking at foreign policy of the 1950s and um the only sentence the only phrase that was redacted by the CIA was Israeli nuclear program. Well why why is it up to us to protect the fact that the Israelis have a nuclear program? I can tell you why. Because we have a law in this country called the Glenn Simington Act written by Senators John Glenn and Stuart

[26:30] Simington. And it says that the United States is not permitted to provide aid of any kind to any country that has a nuclear program and is not a signatory to the non-prololiferation treaty. Well, the only country in the world that meets those criteria is Israel. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; But so long as the Israelis don't admit

[27:00] that they have a nuclear program and we don't admit that the Israelis have a nuclear program, we can just pretend that they don't and continue to give them billions and billions of dollars in aid. We need to clean up our act because that is that is not just disgraceful, it's dishonest and it's unfair to the American taxpayer. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Well, so what what is and and I get I get the I get it from the propaganda side of like of the of the, you know, you've got the Zionists that

[27:30] are, you know, constantly we've got to support Israel. I like I get that side of things because I come out of the evangelical world. I've seen it. I grew up in it. I like I get I get that side of things. But what what's the motivation for like our government? What's the motivation for our you know deep state for lack of a better word on supporting Israel and looking the other way like like you said on this specific law not not admitting what everybody knows is true in order to keep sending the money. What what's the motivation from that standpoint? &gt;&gt; Uh you know what it's a completely

[28:00] political decision. It it's not that, you know, the intelligence community decides we're going to support Israel and we drag the politicians along with us. That is absolutely false. It is that the politicians have decided we will support Israel no matter what and they've dragged the government along with them. That's what it is. It's a complete completely political decision that that was made during the Nixon administration to guarantee

[28:30] Israeli security. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Well, well, but but but then now it's like now this this one issue is like dividing the country unlike anything seen because because it's like usually a lot a lot of these uh you know states of division happen by party line and this is something it split the Democrat party it split the Republican party and it's creating these different factions which I think to a certain degree could be potentially good because I think I think that we need more than just a two-party system to where you

[29:00] have different factions that can negotiate and all that kind of stuff. I don't necessarily think it's going to play out that way, but it's really interesting how it's dividing both parties from that standpoint. And the question is, is that will our government continue down this path with how divided our country is, or are they just going to continue to dig their heels in and go Israel, Israel, Israel? &gt;&gt; Yeah, I think that we are still stuck in the Israel, Israel, Israel uh policy. Yes. Um I agree with you. this this is

[29:30] not a partisan issue. Uh in fact, this is this is an issue on which the left and the right can agree and can work together. Uh I I follow a lot of uh both left-wing and right-wing commentators and we agree that we need to worry about our country. We need to worry about the United States. Why Why do the Chinese have trains that go 350 mph? How come why I can't get on a train that goes 350 miles

[30:00] an hour? How come the Chinese roads and bridges are first class, first world, and ours are full of potholes or the bridges are falling down into the rivers below them? Why are our airports secondass, you know, second world airports? I'm embarrassed. Every time I fly into some place like Miami or JFK or Newark, I'm embarrassed by the condition of these airports. Why? Because we send our money to Israel and we send our

[30:30] money to DoD and we spend more than the next nine largest countries combined in terms of defense budget. And the Chinese are perfectly content to sit back and watch us destroy ourselves. So this is something on which the the right and the left agree that it should be America first. We should be focused on the on the best uh interests and the welfare of the American people and let

[31:00] other countries worry about themselves. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Well, yeah. And I think perfect example I remember uh you know several years ago my wife and I went down to went down to Mexico and we had a layover in Mexico City. We're like this airport is flipping nice. I mean, compared like I'm out here I'm out here in California where it's like we have LAX and it's like this thing looks makes us look like a third world country in while we're actually in a third world country which is crazy. &gt;&gt; Um but but I I I think I think as well it's like with with all with all of this it see it feels like the argument that

[31:30] we're getting out of the Trump administration who obviously they ran with you know America first, America first, America first. It feels like it that's morphed. started out back in 2015 2016 as the the definition of America first is Americans first, right? And and I remember I I bought President Trump's book when he first came out with it with laying out his policy. It was very much about the everyday person, the bluecollar worker. How how do we help Americans? It feels like now that's morphed into America first as the entity

[32:00] and the country and not necessarily Americans first. And I think that that's indicative in President Trump's response to, you know, Iran of saying, you know, I basically don't care about about Americans and their finances because we've got to focus on our safety as a country. You look at what's happening with China. We're going to, you know, have China invest a trillion dollars into our country, send 500,000 of their students to our universities. Now, you can make the argument that maybe you can argue and twist that into it's putting America first because it keeps our universities open. But is that what's

[32:30] best for Americans? And I and I think that that is is where a lot of people are starting to wake up to the fact of are are we buying are we are we agreeing on the same definition of what this even means. &gt;&gt; No, clearly we're not. You know, I I always get a chuckle when I hear about these these deals where the Chinese are going to do this or the Chinese are going to do that. You know, they're going to in invest in the country. They're already the third largest holder of Treasury bonds. So our um our

[33:00] economies are intertwined, right? We have to work together. But what what gives me a chuckle is when the Chinese are always committing to sending hundreds of thousands of students mostly at the masters and PhD level. Okay, that's not necessarily a good thing, right? &gt;&gt; And I'll tell you why. Um, most of those Chinese students are students in the hard sciences or computer sciences, right? And they are here to either

[33:30] absorb or steal as many American tech secrets or scientific secrets as they possibly can and take them back to China or get a PhD in the United States, remain in the United States, and then report back to Chinese intelligence what they're learning here. So, it's not necessarily this wonderful thing that we're have 500,000 new Chinese students u at universities all across the

[34:00] country. Next thing you know, they're going to be applying for jobs in sensitive labs or working in nuclear technologies or working in the defense industry and reporting back to the Chinese intelligence service. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Well, and and especially with their track record, too, because it's like, you know, like again, I live out here in California. We just had one of our mayors out here in Arcadia, California, arrested as basically an agent of China to push propaganda as the mayor of the city. And you're like, did Trump bring this up to to China when he

[34:30] goes over there? I highly doubt that. But I guarantee you if they arrested one of their mayors who who for being a spy basically a spy on behalf of America, it would have just been the end of the world. And and it's like what? Nobody's gonna say like you actually had a mayor working for you. That that's crazy. And then and then I I remember as well and we did a lot of investigation into this. We didn't we didn't fully release the information. Um but back in uh during CO when CO first started uh all all of the

[35:00] numbers that were highly overinflated for for CO 19 uh all the major news outlets were citing the same source and it was it was this website that was calculating all the information aggregate across the country and stating okay this is how many cases deaths all that kind of stuff and it was highly highly inflated but every single mainstream media news outlet uh cited it and it was run by these two college students that were from China that that had come over. They they were in in Nevada and and and you're just sitting

[35:30] here and you're like, "Okay, so every single news outlet is is is relying on two students." Yes. &gt;&gt; website. Where did they come from? They came from China. Where did the virus come from? China. &gt;&gt; Does nobody see? Maybe there's something sinister going on here. &gt;&gt; Jeff, the I I'll draw a parallel. There are two human rights human rights organizations. one based in London, one based in Washington that give us uh numbers of Iranian protesters killed in

[36:00] Iran. Uh they are both um funded by the Israeli government and neither one of them has any presence in Iran. &gt;&gt; Yeah. And my god, the New York Times, the Washington Post, CNN, Fox, they all grab these numbers from these phony human rights organizations funded by the Israelis and they're the ones that convince American policy makers to go to war in Iran. It's the same idea. &gt;&gt; Yeah. No,

[36:30] &gt;&gt; there's no vetting of the information. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Well, and I and I think that that that's where again it's like like you know on one hand it's like we don't want to be so isolation so isol isolationist and just like okay we're not going to be involved anywhere but then it just feels like we're so involved and we're so spread out and we're relying on so many foreign interests in in this country that how how can anybody think that that's good for our that for our national security and I think that that's that's the hard part is that you know when Trump was running for office

[37:00] it was very much you know opposed the global assistance opposed globalism, but now it seems like we're expanding that reach and things I I'm getting the sentiment from a lot of people that it feels like things are more corrupt now than than ever before. The question then though is that is it that are we just realizing it now or is it actually more more corrupt than it was before? &gt;&gt; No, I I think I think we're just realizing it. &gt;&gt; Yeah, &gt;&gt; this has been the case for many decades. Many decades. And it's funny, too,

[37:30] because you would have thought that that Watergate would have permanently changed Americans view their own government. It did for a little while, not long. You know, six years after Nixon resigned, Ronald Reagan became president and everybody was gung-ho again. Um but this has been going on a long time and people generally just kind of fall into place and they do as they're told.

[38:00] &gt;&gt; Yeah. Yeah. Which which which is which again I think I think it's the easy path and I think a lot of people they don't want to believe that there's you know conspiracies like real life conspiracies that are happening behind the scenes. But I but I but I think you know it's interesting the more that I and I'm always somebody that I always tell everybody it's like I'll entertain any conspiracy theory that somebody has but I'm gonna need some evidence in order to take the next step kind of a thing. And but it it seems like and I think my conclusion often times is &gt;&gt; I don't know what actually happened but

[38:30] I know it's not what we were told. Whether you say it was about the JFK assassination, MLK, 9/11, Epstein, it seems like all these major things that have really defined our country in these major catastrophic events, it feels like they're all predicated on either a lie or a partial truth and and everybody tries to act like they know exactly what happened. And I feel like I don't think any of us actually know what actually happened, but I can tell you it's not what they told us.

[39:00] &gt;&gt; Mhm. I think that's exactly right. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; And we should be worried about it. &gt;&gt; We should be worried about it because God knows we're not getting any satisfaction from our elected officials on Capitol Hill. &gt;&gt; I, you know, I I worked on Capitol Hill both on the House side and on the Senate side in senior positions. And I can tell you that most elected officials don't care one wit what their constituents think about these issues. Now, if you're a consist a constituent and you write and you say,

[39:30] "Please support, you know, a resolution to to honor the bald eagle as the national bird." Okay, sure they do that. But if you write and say, "Listen, you know, Israel's committing genocide in Gaza and Israel um suckered us into a war with Iran. Please oppose, you know, further assistance to Israel." They're going to laugh at you. They're going to laugh at you and they're going to ignore you everything that you say.

[40:00] &gt;&gt; Yeah. Well, and and spec specifically with with what's going on in in Gaza as well. I think that like that that's the thing. It's it seems like both sides of that fight, you know, it's it's irreconcilable, right? Because like one side says it's it's uh you know, it's 100% genocide and you know, they're trying to wipe out the the entire you know, population. Then you then you've got the other side which is like no, this is just self-defense. And it's it's like there is no middle ground. So like like what's what's your what's your explanation and your rationale for

[40:30] justifying that there that there is um a genocide happening in Gaza because I think it's really important that we define the terms when we're talking about that. &gt;&gt; Yeah. I mean there are there are legal definitions of genocide which of course the Israelis are are meeting. You can't have as a policy to just kill everybody. That that's what genocide is. That's exactly what what the Jews experienced during the Second World War. You can't have as a policy to destroy all the

[41:00] hospitals. You can't have as a policy to destroy 90% of the homes. The homes aren't a threat to you. The hospitals aren't a threat to you. You can't just destroy them. Even before the war began, Gaza only had 2 hours of water and 5 hours of electricity a day. Not because there wasn't enough water or electricity, but because the Israelis would just simply shut it off. And the and the Gazins got to the point where death was preferable

[41:30] to continuing to live like that, you know. And Donald Trump said something early on in this conflict that was very, very disturbing. He said that um that Gaza could be Monte Carlo. No, it could be better than Monte Carlo. What he meant was once we get rid of all the Palestinians and we can steal their land and develop it and make it look like Monte Carlo. That's the definition of

[42:00] ethnic cleansing. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; You can't do it. It's illegal, &gt;&gt; right? Yeah. Well, and and again, it's like when when you're dealing when you're dealing with this, it it's it's like it's not even like President Trump seems to be covering that up. he's just out and out saying it, which which is absolutely crazy to me. Um, and and and I think that this is also like looking looking at all these issues. It seems like there's so many of these, you know, quote unquote not conspiracy theories,

[42:30] but like like the alternate theories on a lot of these major catastrophic events that that I was talking about earlier that all seem to hinge around Israel and they all seem to be coming to a head right now with what's happening in the Middle East, whether you're talking about Gaza and Iran. And you know, it's like, you know, whether you're talking about um you know, Jeff Jeffrey Epstein, uh it's like, okay, so if if we're going to cover that up, it's like, okay, there's legitimate questions as to why is it that, you know, we're covering up for MSAD and they were using him to blackmail? Are we covering up for the CIA and our agencies because they were

[43:00] using him to blackmail world leaders to get them to do their bidding? And how does that correlate with what's going on in Israel? And I and I and I think I think the same thing happens with, you know, even like the JFK assassination. It's like why why are they slow walking that? Why aren't they actually releasing all the information? Why are they giving us a hay stack without with the needle that's pulled out of it? Like you know what what is going on here? And and it just it just seems like they all seem somewhat interconnected even though I don't necessarily know what that interconnectedness is.

[43:30] &gt;&gt; Yeah. In fact, the CIA raided Tulsi Gabbard's office a few days ago. Think let me repeat that. The CIA, which is not a law enforcement organization, raided the office of the director of national intelligence for whom they work and seized 40 boxes of classified documents that apparently were being reviewed for declassification. Now, by all accounts, those documents included documents related to the JFK

[44:00] assassination. I have it on good authority from a friend of mine at the White House who told me that the president had not declassified the remaining 10 to 15,000 pages of Kennedy assassination documents because every page of them pointed directly at Israel and it wasn't worth upsetting the balance of the relationship. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and and and and again, well, and this this I think is is the crazy thing to me is that um I think it

[44:30] was uh Judge Npalitano uh he he he did a show um a after Trump got out out of office the first time and he and he told the story that he he called up Trump right in his last days while he was in office. He was like, "There's one promise you didn't make and and it was you you didn't release the the JFK files." And uh he's like he's like, "Well, if if you if you would have seen what I saw, you wouldn't release it either. And it's like, okay, so so then you claim that you've released all the documents. There's nothing there that

[45:00] would warrant that kind of reaction. And so, so I think so it it's like is it is it that it's it's Israel's involvement? Like like is that really what what the cover up is all about? &gt;&gt; It it has to be. Unless it was space aliens who came down and killed Kennedy and you don't want to panic the public. Yeah. My belief is that it was some sort of Israeli involvement. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Yeah. So, so it's, so it's like, so if if Israel was involved in the in the assassination of our president, um,

[45:30] allegedly Israel and and or MSAD was involved with, you know, Epstein, like allegedly they were involved with a whole host of things that would be under any other circumstance an act of war against our country. Why do we continue to act as if Israel is our number one ally in the entire world? &gt;&gt; Because this is the political effect that the Israelis have. They are such great politicians. They They are such great lobbyists. They are at every level of

[46:00] government. They're they're embedded on Capitol Hill. They're in the state legislatures. They're even working on on local races like school boards, for example. They're at every level. And so they don't want anybody elected to any office that is going to question Israel. &gt;&gt; Yeah. And and and we're seeing the effect of that happening right now with with that with that with the Thomas Massie primary because because like

[46:30] because like because like when you're looking I've got a lot of friends that are out there campaigning for him right right now and um and and it's and it's really interesting talking to a lot of them because when you actually sit down and you and you think about Thomas Massie I don't think that anybody could argue that he's not a conservative that he's not a principal a principal constitutionalist and all that. uh like he votes with President Trump more than 90% of the time and and even though even the things that he votes against President Trump, the vast majority of them, most conservatives would would

[47:00] agree with him. So it's like, so why the outrage? Why are they dropping $30 million to unseat him? And the only justification that I can see is he opposes what we're, you know, our, you know, the way that we're going about our relationship with Israel. He opposes our foreign interventionist wars. He he opposes sending money to Israel. And it's clear to me that the Israel lobby is trying to unseat him. And that to me, like this to me is like black and white. Like I I don't see any other justification for it because his record should not support treating him as if

[47:30] he's like Liz Cheney and and a and a rhino. &gt;&gt; Yeah. And we should say, we're recording this on um what day is today? Tuesday the 18th. &gt;&gt; Is that right? &gt;&gt; Monday the 18th. Tomorrow's the Friday. &gt;&gt; Monday the 18th. Yeah. &gt;&gt; Yeah. And tomorrow's tomorrow's the primary, so it's it's uh it's crunch time. You know, we're we're really going to get to see But, you know, let me let me say a couple things about Thomas Massie. Um I actually know Thomas

[48:00] Massie. I I don't know him terribly well, but he's a baseball fan. I'm a baseball fan. My dear friend and um and attorney uh Bruce Fine is a baseball fan. And so Bruce has season tickets to the Washington Nationals. We go to half dozen games a year. oftentimes he'll invite Massie and Massie often comes to the games. Absolutely lovely guy. Not a a malicious hair on his head, but he stands up for what he believes in and

[48:30] he's very much like ideologically an America first, right? &gt;&gt; And he really believes it. He really feels America first. And America first is exactly the opposite of what the Israel lobby wants. They want Israel first. America can be co- first, but it's going to be America and Israel both first. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; And that's not that's not Massie. Massie

[49:00] is being opposed by a guy. He's a retired like Navy Seal, I think, is what it is. Or some special forces uh kind of thing. a guy a guy by the name of um Ed Gallerin. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; And Ed Gallerin, you know, is an attractive candidate. Ed Gallerin would would be a solid candidate in, you know, a hundred different districts across America, but I'm I'm really hoping he loses this one. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Yeah. No, me me too. Me, too. And

[49:30] I and I and I think I think as well it's like you know when we're looking at you know being America first I I can't think of anybody that represents that more than Massie at least at least the people that are in that are in Congress and in all and all that and and I think because you know he's he's fighting for transparency in all these different issues whether whether you're talking about Epstein whether you're talking about J6 you know whatever it is he's pushing for transparency and I think that that's something that especially with this administration and I would

[50:00] argue Congress specifically, nobody's fighting for that. And I think that that's what that's what's frustrating. And and and I think another perfect example of this is the handling of the attempted assassination on Trump and the actual assassination on Charlie Kirk. It feels like those investigations were not actual investigations. There's legitimate questions as to is there is there is there foreign involvement. Um, and and it's it's like why why can't we just be transparent and honest about

[50:30] these things? And if you're not, it puts a red flag up that maybe somebody's lying. &gt;&gt; Yeah, I have to agree. And and I'll ask you a semi- rhetorical question. &gt;&gt; Why is the FBI involved in the Charlie Kirk case? Why? &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; This kid that's accused of the shooting is from Utah. He left his home in Utah to drive to Charlie Kirk's location in Utah. He allegedly fired the shot while in Utah

[51:00] and then fled back to his home in Utah. So that is a state case. Utah State Police. Why in the world is the FBI involved? There's literally no federal aspect to this case whatsoever. All I can think of is that they're there to help to fudge the issue and cover things up. &gt;&gt; Yeah, it it's it's it's it's a it's a

[51:30] great it's a great point and um I hadn't thought about it that way, but it it makes it makes perfect sense. Uh it it was really interesting because after what happened with with Charlie Kirk, I I got I got a call from a buddy of mine who has, you know, ties to, you know, intelligence and things like that. And and and he and he and he just flat out told me he's he's like, "It feels like both the Trump attempted assassination and the Charlie Kirk assassination, it was like it was the exact same

[52:00] playbook. exact same type of kid. Uh exact same, you know, you know, security breach of, you know, they didn't check the roof and, you know, they allowed this to happen. Like the exact same, you know, playbook it seemed like happened with both the Trump assassination and Charlie Kirk's attempted assassination. It was really interesting after Trump's assassination. Benjamin Netanyahu came out almost immediately and accused Iran of trying to do it. And you're just sitting here and you're like, "Okay, so why would Iran have done that back then?" I get now if that would have happened now. I get, you know, them do.

[52:30] But back then, you really think that Iran was trying to unseat Trump when he was just running for office? I I kind of doubt that. But if if it's like if it's the same it's the same playbook, you you would argue it's the same people behind it. And I don't think that anybody would would think that Iran would be trying to take out Charlie Kirk. So then who who would be motivated to do something like that? You know, it it could have been what has been presented to us a couple of nuts.

[53:00] It could have been the Israelis. I had I have to admit I got the I got a chuckle when uh Benjamin Netanyahu came out and said, "We didn't kill Charlie Kirk." &gt;&gt; Well, nobody accused you of killing Charlie Kirk. Okay, thank you for making that statement. It's odd, &gt;&gt; right? But, you know, me thinks he'd off protest too much. So, I'm I'm also disappointed. And I get that the wheels of justice move slowly, but I'm disappointed that there have

[53:30] been no briefings. There have been no updates. We don't have any idea what's going on in this case. &gt;&gt; No idea at all. &gt;&gt; In either of those cases, really, like like &gt;&gt; either one of them. No. &gt;&gt; Like you're like you're you're literally talking about a president of the United States that was there was an attempt on his life in front of everybody. He was actually struck by the bullet. And you're telling me that like we like how many years are we now after that? And there's no information about that. There's no like press conference from Cash Patel or Pam Bondi or anything like

[54:00] that of like we've got an update for you. We just discovered this. Nothing. &gt;&gt; Nothing. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; No, they haven't said a word. &gt;&gt; Yeah. It's just it's just it's just crazy. And I think that this this is where it's like, okay, so if if we're getting if we're getting this kind of, you know, stonewalling from this administration. It's like, okay, like it just it just I think a lot of people are becoming more and more blackpilled as time goes on, unfortunately. And and and I think a lot of people are kind of giving up hope that we can reform, you

[54:30] know, the agencies, reform reform the corruption of our government, you know, all of that. Um what what do you say to those to those people? Do do you think that they're justified or what path or what course of action should we be taking? &gt;&gt; You know, honestly, we need major upheaval in Congress. We have to we have to just wholesale throw the bums out. We need one of these watershed uh uh elections like I mentioned earlier because the status quo just simply isn't

[55:00] working. And again, it doesn't matter what the party is. Everybody's got to be thrown out. There's there's got to be something else like like term limits, you know, that that would forbid this entrenchment that we see and this this wealth generation that we see on Capitol Hill. It's utterly unacceptable. But we're not really going to have change until the status quo is is flipped on its head. &gt;&gt; Yeah. No. Yeah. For for sure. I think,

[55:30] you know, it's interesting for me because I think I think when it's when specifically when it comes to term limits, I think there there's there's a legitimate argument for that. But I als I also think that uh I I I think that I could see off possibly even more corruption very similar to the how the president, you know, it's like their first term, they they do great in the second term, they can kind of go rogue and do whatever they want because they have no more accountability. To me, I I almost feel like instead of instead of term limits, I think we should take the Senate back to being selected by the states. So that way, Congress, you know, which is how our founders originally

[56:00] intended it, Congress was elected by the people, Senate's elected by the state. And then that way you have two different interests that are actually negotiating with each other as opposed to a pure democracy really of both. But then, &gt;&gt; but then you're not but then you're not accounting but then you're not accounting for for state legislative &gt;&gt; gerrymandering. Mhm. &gt;&gt; You know, you you've got you've got, for example, in the state of uh in the state of North Carolina, &gt;&gt; you've got a state that's about 5446 Republican, 5248 Republican, but the

[56:30] Republicans have 67% of the legislative seats. &gt;&gt; Yeah. Yeah. &gt;&gt; The sending it back to the state legislators doesn't work. &gt;&gt; Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. And you know, but and and I think I think also like one of the biggest things that I've noticed, especially, you know, being involved in uh you know, supporting different different uh people running for Congress is like the carryover of money from previous campaigns to to that that just keeps incumbents in, you know, the like like you said earlier, the the

[57:00] corporate money that's thrown in, the packs, the you know, there there's so much money and then you've got the GOP where where you and the Democrats in general, they'll they'll select their candidate. They put all of their money behind them in the primaries. Don't even allow the people to have a voice. don't allow them to hear differing perspectives and it's just we just got to get our guy through. To me, it just seems like the whole election system is is rigged both from the governmental standpoint as well as from the party system. Yeah, &gt;&gt; totally. And don't get me started on the Democratic primaries, too. The the Democrats have have these superdelegates. This is something the

[57:30] Republicans don't have. in 19 and I apologize. I have to I have to go right into another podcast, but but the the the Democrats uh nominated George McGovern for president in 1972. McGovern was the weakest candidate that the Democrats could have nominated. But but he was nominated because he was the anti-war candidate. He was the most honest guy. Bob Kennedy called him the most decent man in the US Senate. But he was a loser and he he lost 49 of the 50 states. The Democrats were determined

[58:00] that that would never happen again. And so they instituted this policy of superdelegates. So if you're a Democratic elected official, you're a governor, a congressman, a senator, a state uh office holder, this guy, that guy, the other guy, you're automatically a delegate. Well, then you end up with states like Wyoming or West Virginia where Bernie Sanders beats Hillary Clinton 60 to 40 and doesn't win

[58:30] a single delegate. &gt;&gt; Not a single one. So, the fix is in for the Democrats. You're either the inside guy, right, or you don't have a prayer. &gt;&gt; Yeah. &gt;&gt; And that's not democracy. No, 100% agree. It's it's bonkers that that's allowed. Uh, in closing, because I know I know you got to go, tell everybody how they can tune in to your show, follow you, all all that kind of stuff. &gt;&gt; Oh, thank you. Thank you. I've got one podcast going right now and one that's coming very soon. The one that's on uh

[59:00] Apple podcast and Spotify is called John Kuryaku's Dead Drop. It's I'm so blessed. It's immensely popular. There's six million podcasts in the world and I'm ranked number 238 and I'm very, very proud of that. So that's uh John Kuryaku's Dead Drop on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. And in early July, we're launching on YouTube um a podcast called John Kuryaku's Briefing Room. That will be twice a week. Go to Real John Kuryaku on YouTube and hit subscribe. I would

[59:30] appreciate it. &gt;&gt; Perfect. I'll have the links in the show notes that people just click on that and do that. But I appreciate you coming on. It was a It was a blast getting to pick your brain. &gt;&gt; Thank you, Jeff. So good to see you. Thank you. &gt;&gt; You as well. Thank you. And then everybody else as well, make sure you guys are going over subscribe to his podcast and and and do all that as well. I'll have the links in the show notes again. And then uh in closing as well, make sure you guys are going over to uh pickaxe.com, get the uh you guys can get the app in the iOS app store or the Google Play um app store as well. Download that, experience what a true algorithmically free social media

[1:00:00] platform is like. Uh also coming up on June 13th, we're going to be down in San Diego at the Switchfoot Brom. Uh come hang out with us. Uh it's a concert on the beach. Uh it's going to be, you know, surf contest, the whole deal. And we are sponsoring with Pickax, the VIP pit. Uh we're also going to have a booth, hang out, you know, all that kind of stuff. A bunch of the OAN hosts are going to be coming down and hanging out with us as well. So, make sure that you guys are doing that. And then in closing as well, go over to supermassivebl.com. Supermassiveblack coffee.com. Use promo code Jeff at checkout. You guys get 20% off. Oh, and also we actually just

[1:00:30] launched uh a Pickax merch store. So if you guys want Pickax merch. We got hats, shirts, hoodies, coffee mugs, the whole deal, you guys can go over to pickaxe.shop. pickaxe.shop and you guys can go over there and get your pickaxe merch. Um, so that is it for today. Thank you guys so much for tuning in. I truly truly appreciate it. We shall catch you guys next time.
