Title: Club Med Gaza / DeProgram with Ted Rall and John Kiriakou
Show: DeProgram Show with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas
Date: 2026-01-23
URL: https://youtu.be/c0crs_0HgAU
Duration: 60:00

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[00:08] Good morning and happy Friday. You're watching the program with Ted Rall and John Kiriakou as John and I brace for the big snowstorm. Seriously, man. I Did I tell you night before last my son and I went to Home Depot? I I can't find my scraper for my windshield. Oh, I always lose those. I must have like five of them, seriously. >> they're probably buried in the back recesses of your trunk under [ __ ] >> probably are. So So we went to to Target and Target that the shelves were

[00:39] literally bare. It was like It was like COVID all over again. So it's just diagonally from across the street from the Home Depot. So we went there. And mind you, this is This is like 9:00 on a Wednesday night. We couldn't find a parking space at the Home Depot, first of all. So we had to park where they have sort of taken the parking spaces and they use it for storage. You know how Home Depots do? Yeah. So we went in and there's a guy holding a container of of salt,

[01:10] rock salt, and I said, "Excuse me, can you tell me where you got the salt?" He said, "Very back of aisle four, and you better get back there fast." >> [laughter] >> We were like, "What?" So we ran back there. It's a mob of people, and as quickly as this poor hapless like 70-year-old stock clerk is pulling the salt out of the boxes, people are just grabbing them out of his hand. So I got three containers, three 8-lb containers, and they're in my trunk. I gave my son

[01:40] one. I'm going to give a friend of mine one, and I've got one for my car just in case. But man, and the models are different. I mentioned yesterday, they haven't changed at least this morning when I first woke up, they hadn't changed. But it was um the American model and the American AI model are saying um 8 to 12 inches for us, but then the European model is saying um uh 20 21 to 26 inches. Yeah, let me look right now.

[02:12] Uh yeah, we're looking now at at 8 to 10, according to the >> we know which which one Do you happen to know which one tends to be more accurate? I remember downloading this one because the other one was inaccurate. So I'm going to say 8 to 10, 8 to 12. And we'll see. >> swear by AccuWeather. It's my It's my favorite weather app. >> Yeah. Um you know, I like I mean, it's it's almost unearthly. It'll >> Oh, this is the Weather Channel. >> It'll say like, you know, "Snow stops in 17 minutes." And then it does, yeah.

[02:45] Okay, I'm going to I'm going to download it right now. So I think we're expecting over a foot um I guess 1 foot and 4 inches in New York City um and more in the surrounding areas, and it's going to be coupled with ice and severe cold temperatures. Um you know, it's going to be wind chills tonight of below zero in New York City uh and actual temperatures of like single digits in New York City like over the weekend. We have um uh low of 17, high of 18.

[03:16] >> [laughter] >> Well, at least you know what the temperature's going to be. It's not one of those like, "Oh, like California, like we need layers." Yeah, no, not not so much. Um well, it's going to it's uh it's cold in Gaza, but Jared Kushner thinks it's going to be hotter. We'll We'll talk about that uh and how exactly this is going to look. You mentioned this yesterday, and I did a deeper dive over overnight into Jared Kushner's vision for Club Med Gaza. Uh Minneapolis is is uh I didn't know this was coming. Uh this kind of snuck up on

[03:47] me. It snuck up on me, too. I actually didn't know it was coming. There's a citywide strike. Um hundreds of businesses are going to close down today. Um thousands, maybe tens of thousands of Minneapolitans, is that what you call them? I don't know what you call them. Um are going to be uh are not are going to refuse to work today. Um ICE is already complaining that they can't get hotel rooms. Their hotel room reservations get canceled. Uh their uh you know, they can't get a cup of coffee. They're refused service. Um oh, sad It's sad to be a you know, sadistic

[04:19] macho steroided [ __ ] Um and uh Trump is turning to the left. We already kind of knew this like 2 weeks ago when he was talking to Elizabeth Warren. But he's looking to the left uh on the economy. I have thoughts about that. Um and the Department of Homeland Security kind of pulled like what Time magazine did to O.J. Simpson when they darkened his picture for the cover. Uh they this one of the three women who were who were arrested for um being in a protest against an ICE

[04:50] preacher, that those are the two words that I'd go that would go there. Um is uh that one of them they they tweeted out her picture. It was modified by AI to make it look like she was crying and blacker than she is. >> Right. So um all beautiful stuff. And of course, obviously, please like, follow, share the show. Um we appreciate your donations as always. We're I think it's fair to say, John, we're we're now actually, we you know, we can see the light at the end of the tunnel, and it doesn't seem to be a train heading to run us over. Amen. Yes.

[05:22] It was doing well now. And Yeah, and thanks to everybody. Yeah. Thanks to everybody because when we first started this, remember we started it with Michelle. Um and uh and I think we had five people watch the first episode, literally. Quite literally. >> that's right. And And we appreciate those five people. >> We do, very much, because we it was it was from that that we grew. And uh and now we're able to, you know, actually pay the electric bill. Which was a concern for a while. Oh, yeah, yeah, no, for sure. And we

[05:54] have questions in the feeds. So, you know, maybe we could do what we did yesterday, John, and knock out knock out a story or two and then get to the questions. What do you think? That sounds like a plan. All right. I'm I'm interested in all of these things, but you you get to pick. Okay. Um let's talk about Minneapolis. I I was invited to a dinner last night uh with Ilhan Omar. There were about 20 of us. And she talked about this uh this really what amounts to a general strike in

[06:26] Minneapolis today. And she said something that I thought was important. Um Well, she said a couple of things that I thought were important. That the administration has underestimated the resolve of Minnesotans repeatedly. >> [snorts] >> And she also said These are sturdy people. It's routinely 20 below zero there. She That was an important point that she made. That these these ICE people from DC or from where they wherever they are, Texas

[06:56] or California, they're they're not used to Minnesota winters. And this is going to get very old for them very quickly. And um you know, to use a line from The Sopranos, from the Pine Barrens episode, Minnesotans wash their balls with snow. So [laughter] Minnesotans aren't afraid of these uh of these ICE people in this weather, number one. Number two, um Minnesotans see this as a legit attack,

[07:26] a federal attack on their city and state. And they're not going to roll over for it. So this is going to get worse before it gets better. She said that that the federal government thought people were just going to roll over, they were going to run from the screaming from the room, hide in their homes. That's not it at all. She said that there are thousands of people who are at least temporarily hiding people in their homes so that they can't be found.

[07:57] Which is taking a Which is taking a risk. Um that's a felony. It's a felony. God bless them. >> a felony your sentence. >> God bless their sentence. >> God bless them is right. You know, I've said many times, many members of my family came here as what people call illegal immigrants. And all they ever wanted to do was to make money to to care for their families. They were very happy to pay taxes. They didn't come in legally, as Robbie would complain, uh because that option was not open to them. Right. They couldn't come here legally. The answer was no, we're not

[08:28] giving visas to Greeks in the post-World War II era. No. And so, you know, I think that she made a couple of good points last night that that the administration isn't really paying much attention to. Um you you know, it's I think it's always interesting um you get into trouble politically when you grind up against um a local indigenous culture. Um I was thinking about uh you know, Chris Christie was a really unpopular governor of New Jersey. And he pulled a lot of [ __ ] as governor.

[09:00] Yeah, he did. But what did him in ultimately was two things, right? Once One was [ __ ] with something near and dear to New Jerseyans, which is their ability to commute in and out of New York City. Um that's why he lived in New Jersey. Yes, and and so he did Bridgegate, closing the George Washington effectively closing the George Washington Bridge. By the way, a lady died in an ambulance trying to uh you know, on that day. That's right. And then, worst of all, in the middle of

[09:30] a heat wave, um closing all the beaches but going to the beach himself with his family. Again, New Jersey has a lot of beach communities, and people really value their you know, they're like, "We might not live in a in a state that has its own TV station, but we live in a state that has beautiful beaches, and all of us are No one's more than an hour or an hour and 15 minutes away from a beach. Um and he's taking that away from us, and he's using it for himself. [ __ ] you. And this is similar. I mean, many Minneapolitans and Minnesotans, you

[10:02] know, we've all heard the term Minnesota nice and it's it's a real thing. These are to a fault hopelessly polite people. You know, they're Scandinavian ethnically most of the the whites are and and that's the culture that sort of, you know, everybody who moves there kind of has to adapt to regardless of their own ethnic background. They're and and they real and you know how it is. Like New Yorkers don't care if you're a little gruff, but like, you know, Minnesotans, if you're if you're like that, you know, if you're rude and

[10:34] crude, people hate you. And and and that's the exact impression that ICE made. They culturally could not have asked for a a worst more grading crash seriously to say. Seriously, I couldn't agree more. Um that's why I think this is going to be a bigger deal than the government realizes. And it's not like, you know, they're planning to pull out on Tuesday. This is an ongoing thing. J.D. Vance kind of you know, kind of

[11:06] tipped, you know, he's a smart guy. He can, you know, he takes the temperature. He knows what's up and he said, you know, we want to turn down the temperature. Well, that's a new statement from the administration. They've been they've been turning up the temperature all the way to like 600 and now, you know, but the thing is they're not doing the things that are required to to turn down the temperature. Just saying you want to turn it down doesn't do anything. Um I guess this brings up the issue of the of the Homeland Security Twitter account. I mean, which by the way is a cesspool of like, you know,

[11:39] alt-right, you know, wink wink nod nod to like neo-Nazism and you know, sort of crazy like memes that look like they come out, you know, Norman Rockwellish kind of 1930s like, you know, not that he Norman Rockwell was a right-winger far from it. But that kind of idealized all white American vision. But anyway, they they they tweeted out a picture altered of one of the three women who they arrested at for

[12:11] disturbing the peace, I guess basically. I think they're all going to walk, no question. You know, for basically yelling at this ICE preacher for being member of ICE during a church service, right? I can't see what where the where the lawbreaking is here unless you break a You can't charge someone with trespassing. Listen, I've become a a YouTube expert on this kind of thing. You can't charge someone with the crime of trespassing until you have trespassed to them. Which means you have to give

[12:42] them written notification that they are not permitted on your property. Somebody you can't just arrest somebody and charge them with trespassing because they walk into a church and start yelling. You can throw them out. empire law rule where I uninvite you and they fly out the door. Exactly. Exactly. Um yeah, no, so so the so this woman, right? I mean, first of all, even if they had tweeted out her photograph, I mean, this is an agency that complains about federal employees, ICE officers being doxxed,

[13:13] right? By by leftist activists. Here they are doxxing a you know, a private citizen, right? A a person of color, a woman on top of it. So that would make that makes me really uncomfortable. But on top of that, they altered the image to look at make it look like she was in tears. She wasn't. >> She wasn't. And you know, she was brave and composed and she and they made her they they changed the color of her skin. They tinted her to make her look more to make her look darker. Um this is racist. It's a racist it's a

[13:45] racist thing to do. Just racist. The Kristi Noem owes her and the country an apology. Yeah. Couldn't agree more. And this is not turning down the temperature. Do you remember of course of course you remember the [ __ ] that Time magazine took when they darkened O.J. Simpson's booking picture his his mugshot. Yeah. They had to make an apology and they said that it was, you know, it was a poorly thought out attempt to make it

[14:15] look more stark and yeah. I actually knew the editor who approved that image at Time magazine because I was doing cartoons there at at the time. Oh. And [snorts] it did turn out to be kind of a production [ __ ] Um and which, you know, people people don't know like when you produce something in a magazine like they you have to create what they call a match print. You're not really sure what it's going to look like until it rolls off the press and you kind of need to print so anyway, they apparently they were late that day

[14:46] because of the O.J. story. So they didn't have time to do a match proof and then the thing it's actually a fascinating story. It's sort of like the the Dean scream. Yeah. >> knew someone who was working at his campaign. The mic was malfunctioning that night and when Howard Dean was like, you know, shouting or trying to he was trying yeah, he was trying to make his mic work and it kind of played into this awkward kind of you know, image that the that the corporate media was trying to to paint of him. >> I I always liked him. Oh, I'm a big fan

[15:18] and the 50 state the 50 state um uh strategy is the way to go for any party. >> Absolutely. Oh my god. See, the Clintons did this to the Democratic Party. Because it was James Carville who insisted on a 50 state uh strategy. Mhm. This is something this is not a new idea. This is something that George McGovern proposed in 1960 when he first ran for the Senate. Um and that's why the Democrats were able to elect senators from North and South Dakota, from Wyoming, from Oklahoma,

[15:50] from Utah. I mean, they were Democratic senators. You don't write off entire sections of the country. No, and what the Clintons did was they ended financing for Democratic candidates at the state representative level. >> Mhm. Which controls redistricting in most states. >> And also it killed their farm system, right? Somewhere somewhere in some statehouse there's a there's some lady who could be the president of the United States in 40 years. That's right. But you know, you don't we don't know that

[16:22] because yeah, cuz she's not going to get any money. She'll be defeated by a Republican. Um yeah, no, it's it's really boneheaded for a variety of reasons. We could do an entire show on that. All right, let me see about getting into so Robbie is just getting just getting to us. So I'm going to please bear with me guys while I parse through the comments here. Much appreciated. Um K. dot I'm going to sort of work through these on YouTube. Ted, you mentioned that one day you'd like a good documentary to tell your story one day. The first name and channel that came to

[16:52] mind when I heard that was Andrew from Channel 5 News. Uh okay. Um I don't know who that is, but So like um if anyone wants to contact me, it's rawl.com/contact. Nicholas Francos, John, can you expect explain a little bit about the situation with the stateless people in Kuwait? When I was studying for my bachelor's degree, I met two girls. They said they were refugees from Kuwait. Kuwaiti citizenship is a difficult thing. Um there are multiple levels of Kuwaiti citizenship. Three.

[17:24] There are first class Kuwaitis. >> [snorts] >> Second class and third class. Now, a first class Kuwaiti is a descendant of someone who can trace his Kuwaiti citizenship to the census of 1920. Right? So they had this big census in 1920. If you want to be Kuwaiti, come and sign up. Well, a lot of people didn't bother cuz they were like, what is this state? This we're Bedouins. Everything is our state. We just move from place to place. This was created by the by the by the Treaty

[17:54] of Versailles? No, it coincided with the Treaty of Versailles. Okay. Second class Kuwaitis are descendants of people who can trace their lineage to people who were in Kuwait in 1920 but didn't register. Okay? Okay. Third class Kuwaitis are people who have been granted Kuwaiti citizenship for whatever reason. You served the royal the ruling family, you did some special thing. But who do not have the privileges of

[18:26] first and second class citizenship. And then there are stateless people called Bedoon. Bedoon in Arabic means without. So they are without papers, without citizenship. That's not the same word as Bedouin. No. It comes from the same root to move. Badana to move around. Mhm. So Bedouins kind of go through the desert, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Iraq. They're constantly nomads. They're moving from oasis to oasis with their flocks.

[18:58] But the Bedoon tend to, you know, live in Kuwait City like everybody else does. They just don't have a passport. They don't have any rights. They have to travel on United Nations issued laissez-passers. And so like uh like these two girls apparently um you get a laissez-passer that allows you to to travel the United States to go to school, but you are not a Kuwaiti citizen. Huh. Okay. It's rough. All right, Sneaker Dad 10 20. Thanks for the 10 bucks and thank

[19:30] very much much appreciated. Did you see Vance's talk yesterday? So much us versus them, Katie catastrophe, red versus blue. It was sickening sickening. Well, that's it is sickening. I you know, I mean, very clearly this administration repeatedly, you know, says the quiet part out loud, which is if If you're not a Republican and you're not a supporter of President Trump, we don't care about you. Um we don't care if you live or die. Um I guess the question for me, and I don't know I

[20:00] really don't know the answer to this, does this make Republicans or Trump supporters uncomfortable or do they love it? That's a good question. That's a good question. I I don't know, but you know what though? Even if it did make them uncomfortable, they would remain silent. We're not yet at a at a point We're starting to get to this point in the Senate, but we're not yet at a point where people are comfortable enough criticizing Donald Trump. Once we get past the next election in November and Trump truly is a lame duck cuz he's

[20:32] not running for a third term. I don't care what he says. Um then I think people will feel much more comfortable in um criticizing him. Hey, let me add one other thing. Um Ilhan Omar mentioned last night at this dinner that she had just come from a series of budget votes on Capitol Hill. We got We were getting push notifications last night. So what the Democrats did cuz they're utter and complete and total sellouts um is they um they demanded that the budget

[21:05] for Department of Homeland Security be stripped out of the omnibus. So she called it a mini bus, which I had never heard before. It was kind of funny. So All All the Yeah, all the Democrats voted for the mini bus which funded the the entire government except Homeland Security. But the Republicans were unified on the Homeland Security vote last night. And there were just enough by like by like a majority

[21:35] of two or three that they approved the Homeland Security uh budget, which includes ICE, of course. And she And she said that the only hope that the Democrats have to either block the DHS budget or to shut down the government again is on the Senate side. She said the Republicans are nowhere near 60 votes necessary to break cloture. So I said, "Are you predicting

[22:06] a government shutdown brought by the Democrats?" And she said, "Not necessarily." She said because many of my Democratic colleagues on the second side are sellouts and weaklings. So we'll see what happens. Nobody's reporting this yet that there's a a real possibility of another government shutdown. Uh when? March something. I would love to see some [ __ ] discipline inside the Democratic caucus. It's chaos. It's chaos in the Democratic caucus. >> Jeffries was basically like, "I will

[22:38] kick your ass so far down the street if you stray from our party's official position, you won't even [ __ ] remember." Um but yeah, that's we're not there obviously and it's not going to happen. Good question for you, John. I I'm curious about this. Per Avida, John, if an ex-source ever an ex-source ever hit you up asking to meet up and talk about life, would you follow up? Or the curiosity not worth the risk or is it simply just not allowed? I absolutely would. I actually have. Ah.

[23:10] Uh on two occasions. One time I ran into one of my sources an Iraqi in Dulles Airport here in Washington. He says to me, "John! John!" like that. And I looked and I go >> [laughter and gasps] >> I go, "Mohammed? What are you doing here?" He said, "I became a refugee and now I'm an American citizen." I was like, "Oh my god!" We sat and had coffee and it dawned on me partway through the conversation. I said, "Wait a minute. You're speaking

[23:40] English." And he's like, "Yeah, I learned how to speak English." It's just It didn't register in my brain that he was speaking >> you see someone out of context, I guess it's a more extreme version of like when I see my dry cleaning dude at like the bar. And I'm like, "Wait, you live at the dry cleaner? I don't understand." >> Exactly. Oh my god, I was at I was at the the town mall in Newcastle, Pennsylvania one time with my mom. I was 16 and there was this uh We're not allowed to use the word [ __ ]

[24:11] anymore. What do we say? Short person? Little person? >> There was a little person. And we're walking down the you know, middle of the mall and he goes, "Hey, how you doing?" I said, "Hey, how are you?" And my mom goes, "How in the world do you know that guy?" And I said, "Oh, I He must have confused me with somebody else." The truth is that he was the bartender at the bar that served minors that my buddies and I used to go buy [laughter] six-packs at City Lights Cafe. Anyway, God bless those people. I remember when I my first

[24:43] day at college um in 1981 in New York, the drinking age was 18 at at Columbia. I sidle up to the bar. And there's like three like girls from like New Jersey drinking and they're all like They couldn't None of them could have been older than 12. So I [laughter] I was The bartender was flirting with me. And she's like 40 and uh and and I go, "What's up with the uh you know, what about what what's with these ladies?" And she goes, "I know you're new you're new to New York City." She's like, "If you're old enough to pay, you're old

[25:14] enough to drink." City Lights Cafe, man. And and occasionally Hanging Gardens uh Bar and Lounge. Hanging Gardens was good, but there was a bartender there that that knew my parents, so I tried to stay away. >> [laughter] >> And in Dayton where I grew up, we had the best names for bars that they had plausible deniability. Nowhere. Hey, where have you been? Nowhere. Um the library. >> [laughter] >> There was a whole row of bars like that on Dixie Highway in Kettering, Ohio. Oh

[29:24] on a strike against Iran tonight." Ah oh It would be a good with the weather and all the distraction going, this would There would be This would be a good uh great weekend for a media dump. Yeah, you could say that again. Um Ryan Grim was at this dinner last night. Ryan is from Dead Drop Media. Very very well connected and um somehow we got onto the topic of of Iran and um he said he does not expect an attack on

[29:56] Iran in the next week or two, but all bets are off once this carrier battle group, the USS Abraham Lincoln, finally gets to the region. He said he he does believe that we're looking at an attack on Iran in the coming months. Yes, I would agree with that. Um Go to Iraq, thanks for the 10 bucks. And I John, this question's for you, but I would like to chime in on it as well. What are your rules for accepting uh Arab hospitality? I'm not sure every random taxi driver and shopkeeper actually wants to host me for tea at their home, but I'm curious. I think they actually do, but go ahead.

[30:27] They do actually and and I'll tell you the honest-to-god's truth is I never say no. Never. Hey, I'll tell you, the first It's rude to say no. It's rude to say no. Americans have a shitty reputation as it is. It's it's quite bad form to say no. The first time this ever happened to me was I was in Damascus in 1990, I don't know, two or three. I It was my first trip to Syria and my boss had told me beforehand, he said Syrians are so insular and so afraid of

[30:58] their government that you will never meet a non-official Syrian and you will never see the inside of a Syrian's home. So, I went to the souk and um and this guy asked me uh "Antwan Wayne, where are you from?"" And I said "I will yet to from the United States." And he just looked at me like and I said "You've never met an American, have you?"" And he said "No, I've never met an American." So, we stood there talking. I bought a tablecloth that I think my ex-wife stole

[31:29] from me in our divorce and um he said "You have to come to my home. You have to come to my home for dinner." And I said "Oh, no, no, no, no, I don't want to, you know, make a problem for you." Which could have been a serious problem for him. He insisted and then he picked up the phone, called his wife, closed the shop around 9:00, we went to his house and I still remember what a wonderful time I had at that dinner. Uh you know, even recently I was in What When was I in Jerusalem in like night in

[32:00] 2022? Um and um and a taxi driver invited me to his house for dinner and dropped dropped me off at uh at my hotel, [snorts] picked me up three hours later and took me to his house for dinner. Just in time for me to buy, you know, some flowers for his wife and you know, whatever. But I never say no because they mean it. When they invite you, they mean it. They mean it and it it's very insulting if you say no. Like in Japan, they don't mean it um at all. Don't say

[32:30] don't say yes. If you accept it, you're you're being an [ __ ] Uh but like no, in in like um in in Wadi Rum where they filmed uh Lawrence of Arabia in Jordan. Yes. I had a car accident. I've been to the Wadi Rum. I I I had a car accident. It was bad. The car rolled into the desert. It it was totaled. I still have the key. Um and the uh and I went through the windshield. And so uh it was a it was a hell of a day and finally the guy You went through the windshield? I went through the

[33:00] windshield. Yeah, I had like I had safety glass all embedded in my in my in my skull, right? I didn't know that. So, my uh this was 2000 year 2000. This was Actually, it's a funny story. You um it has a connection to you maybe obliquely um to the millennium plot. So, I was staying at the Movenpick with my wife um in uh on December on New Year's Eve 1999, December 31st, 1999, Y2K. Um the Movenpick is at the entrance of Petra and uh we, you know, we were

[33:31] [ __ ] around Petra for a couple of days and we did the New Year's celebration with like the British ambassador to Jordan and all these people and um this was before so be later, this accident took place, but we later learned, right, that that hotel was targeted to be blown up by Al-Qaeda and that night and that uh this operation that had been disrupted by Jordanian intelligence. Um they had a list of like a dozen hotels they were going to blow up all at the same time.

[34:01] Um I don't know how far along it got, but anyway, the point is it was kind of creepy like feeling a bullet go by, you know, by your ear or something like Trump can probably attest. And and uh anyway, the point is I rolled the car in the desert and um this guy stopped and uh this Bedouin guy stopped in his Jeep and gave us a ride. Uh he was like I guess part Bedouin cuz he had a house. And he insisted that we you know, all I wanted to do was get back to the hotel, take [laughter] a bath and and pull the safety glass out

[34:33] of my scalp. Um but he's like "You have to come to my house." I'm like literally like "Okay." And my wife's like "What the [ __ ] are you doing?" I'm like "We got to. We have no choice. We have to." That's how in That's how insistent it is for sure. Yeah, this Syrian guy, the only thing he asked of me was that when I got back to Washington if I would send him a postcard. Which I gladly did. He just wanted to have a postcard with a scene from Washington, D.C. I don't know why Tammy's talking at

[35:04] referencing all the young dudes, but any reference to Mott the Hoople, I will take. Famously, David Bowie wrote All the Young Dudes to save Mott the Hoople. I freaking loved Mott the Hoople. I saw them at GW in 1982. They're fantastic. And Ian Hunter's solo career is amazing. Yeah. I mean, he's still going strong and his records are great. I mean, you know, it's not one of those like nostalgia things. Like if you'd never heard of Ian Hunter and you bought like his most recent album, you'd be like "This is a good rock album." Yeah, seriously. Uh

[35:35] okay, so any insights on Apollo Global Management contacts with ICE in the government? Uh Apollo acquired Constellis Holdings, formerly Blackwater. This is Unsung Pat, thanks for the 10 bucks. I I don't know enough to answer the question to tell you the truth. Have you followed this? I don't know anything about it. And by the way, about Minnesota again, right? Um you little bit yesterday I talked [clears throat] about how uh you know, general strike's not going to work in without a broad-based left-wing

[36:05] organization. But like what about I mean, I guess the part that's a little weird about this is the people who are going to suffer from all these closed businesses are going to be Minneapolis' economy, right? I mean, the businesses themselves Which tells you how serious they are about this. Yeah, but it's almost like when there's a riot and people burn down their own neighborhood cuz they're pissed off at someone else. Um I mean, I don't know. I mean, I'm glad they're doing something. I mean, this is it seems like it puts the pressure

[36:36] really on local politicians, but the local politicians don't want ICE there and we already know they don't want ICE there. I don't know what they're supposed to do really. Yeah, I agree with you. Three birds, one stone. Two bucks, thanks very much. Where do Where do we see the world in five years? Honest thoughts though although optimism is not entirely off the table. That's hilarious. You can go, John. >> [snorts] >> I think that in one way or another, we're going to be in the process of trying to rebuild our long-standing

[37:06] international friendships and relationships. Serious damage has been done. Serious damage. For example, this morning, President Trump threw the Canadians off of the so-called peace board that uh he's creating for Gaza like it's his to create. Um threw the Canadians off cuz he's angry about the speech that Prime Minister Carney gave at uh at Davos. So, we've got a lot of work to do to try to repair these relationships. >> [snorts] >> I mean, I think also the [clears throat]

[37:37] the body politics is has never been more divided. Um the divisions between left and right, Democrats, Republicans, uh the total distrust in the system. I mean, to me it's very reminiscent of the stuff I've read about the late Weimar Republic and just like the there's just like no faith whatsoever in uh in the in the uh you know, in representative democracy. It just feels like it you know, nobody thinks they care about us. Um and that's very toxic. I mean, I

[38:10] could see the system collapsing entirely. Although frankly, I hate the system and would love to see it replaced. But um you know, I mean, the problem is we don't have something waiting in the wings to replace it. That's all you know, whatever however shitty your system is, it can always get worse. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. It can always get worse. Yeah. Hey, did you happen to see that the President Trump said the other day he was talking about US-Italian relations? Did you see this? No, I think I missed it. He was talking about US-Italian relations and he said that

[38:42] our relations with Italy have been excellent since Roman times. >> [laughter] >> And the and the translator looks at him like "What?" And then and then and then she translates it. >> [laughter] >> It's like I don't know if he knows how long ago that was. >> [laughter] >> It's like George W. Bush with the Grecians. You know, we we love the Grecians. And the Greeks are like "What?" Jesus Christ. I mean, I Okay, so I know

[39:15] it's like the equivalent of like you know, a poll tax or something, but I kind of feel like you should have to pass a basic history and politics test to be allowed to run for president. Yeah. Yeah, I would agree. Yeah, we'd we'd rule out pretty much almost everyone who ever runs. So, that's That would have that benefit. Um John, have you ever run uh Young Courthouse wants to know and thanks for the buck. Have you ever uh uh crossed paths with a Jack Lee in the 1990s? No, I'm sorry. I can't say that I have.

[39:45] Uh okay, um the one and only Scars. Hey John, I'm in high school and speak Arabic. Do you recommend trying to join the CIA? >> [sighs and gasps] >> That's a uh longer conversation. I'll put it this way. If If you are inclined to join the CIA, Mhm. um in order to make changes from the inside, absolutely. You know, I as much as I criticize the CIA and Ted and I have talked about this a million times,

[40:15] I loved every minute of that career. I went to 72 countries. I met with kings and presidents and prime ministers and had the experience of a lifetime. So, if you're inclined to do that kind that kind of work knowing that you may have to stand up one day and say, "This is wrong and I'm not doing it and I'm making a a whistleblower complaint." then go for it. The career is magnificent.

[40:48] Um [snorts] thank you for gentlemen for your work uh and thank you for the five Canadian dollars. Um John, you mentioned mentioned the CIA uses a lot of cheap gadgets from Amazon. Then what's DARPA for? Ah, DARPA is for the big-ticket items. The the Black Mirror robot dogs. The the soldiers the robot soldiers that that we're developing now that the only reason they're not on the battlefield fighting is because we haven't developed a long-life battery yet. That's what DARPA's for. Stuff that we haven't even thought of. But if you want to bug a

[41:20] room or plant a camera or something, just get it off of Amazon. Um [snorts] John, what's the website you use to track aircraft carriers that you have mentioned? Oh. Let me see if I can find it again. Uh Aaron Arnold wants to know, "Ted, do you use a seatbelt now?" 100%. By the way, the car that I was driving didn't have a seatbelt. Um so, there is that.

[41:52] Okay. No, that wasn't the one. Oh, here it is. Got it. It is Yes, here it is. So, it's it's go www You know what? Why don't I put it in the chat? Okay. Do you go ahead and do that? Um Unsung Pat, wow, thanks for the 50 bucks. When it comes to the Middle East, why don't we talk about one, the Lord Rothschild letter, my family created Israel. Two, the lies after World War I that chopped up the Middle East. Three, the 1948-1950

[42:25] uh Y um uh Y um bulk Miz child affair. I don't know the third one. I don't know the third one. Um I guess maybe you can uh elaborate on that one uh Pat, but um you know, I I think that like in America, you lose I have lost every single historical and political argument that I've ever made that relied on someone un either knowing history or believing that

[42:56] I knew history or believing that history was relevant to today. It just doesn't have much effect. You know, Americans are a-historical. I mean, and it's you know, part of it's a superpower. We're always looking forward. We're not wallowing in the past. You know, we're not pissed off about the 1389 Battle of Kosovo. Um but we are still um but part of the problem is, you know, when you try to say, "Well, this is how we The reason it's important in my view to know how we got here in any situation is because

[43:26] then we won't make the mistake of making the same mistake in the future and being like, "Okay, uh you know, now everything's solved." Like if we know, for example, that a lot of the [ __ ] that Trump does is stuff that Obama did and that Biden did and that Bush did, then we know that these are things that, you know, we we're not going to think that just electing Democrats is going to solve the Trump problem. Um but like the point is that most people just they can't relate to it. Not in America. This In France or any other Greece, any other

[43:58] country, you can his Russia, you can make a historical argument and it resonates like incredibly powerfully, but >> Yeah. I don't know how to get around that. I just, you know, I've tried it my entire life. It never ever works and I've never see it work with anyone else. Yeah, I think I think you've hit that on the head. I agree. Um Relaxed Garden. John, do you really think we can repair those relationships with our allies? I hope we can, but I'm not sure if they'll take us seriously anymore. I I do, actually. I do. Um

[44:29] you know, we repaired our relationships after George W. Bush and it can be done again. Remember that old saying that there's no such thing as permanent friendships, just permanent interests and our interests are going to continue to intersect. And so, whether we, you know, have hurt feelings on one side or both or not, those those relationships will be repaired. And some foreign leaders will will think to themselves, "Well, that was crazy Trump. It's better now." Right. Exactly. Um Cat Melvin, "I hate the system and would like to love to see

[44:59] it replaced." That's me. Uh "There you go. That's why we're doomed. Everyone wants some kind of dramatic showdown. It's bad." I don't want a dramatic showdown. I just don't think this system is reformable. Uh I would be very clear here. You should never have a revolution if you can avoid it. Revolution really sucks. Um but, you know, if but there are there are problems that can only be solved by revolution. Yes. Desert Fox 41, what do you recommend John for a history major with a poly sci

[45:29] minor in their last semester at Seton Hall? >> [laughter] >> This is very specific, John. Uh you know, who is 5'9" and 120 and 147 lb uh with brown hair. Now, about what to do about a career. I am extremely concerned. Um I don't know what you're concerned about. >> be. Don't be extremely concerned. I know that you feel like you're under the gun, but don't feel bad about taking a job that is going to end up being temporary.

[46:00] You're young. You have literally a whole lifetime ahead of you. You know, it took it took so long for my CIA clearances to come through, even though I was sort of, you know, expedited through the the old boy network. It took 18 months for my my clearances to come through and so, I had to take a job at the Office of Personnel Management doing background investigations for other people to get their clearances. That wasn't a career. I knew it wasn't a career. It was a bunch of bozos just going through the

[46:31] the motions of being a pretend cop. And so, um so don't be hard on yourself. Go ahead and take a take a temporary uh job that you know is not going to be a career while you do other things to improve your your lot in life. Get a get a graduate degree, a master's degree. Learn a foreign language. Uh develop another skill. Just give yourself a little bit of time. Don't worry about it. Yeah. No, and also the thing is your education can end up helping you in unexpected ways. I have a colleague, a

[47:02] cartoonist. His name uh he goes by the name Ruben Bolling. It's not his real name, but he does a strip called Tom the Dancing Bug. He went to Harvard Law School. He's never practiced law um and I'm sure that came as a great disappointment to his parents. He graduated at the top of his class. He would have been an absolutely brilliant attorney um you know, and certainly he's like freelanced as like a you know, paralegal, but he's never been a lawyer. But his cartoons are infused with that sort of legalistic um approach and he

[47:33] draws on legal knowledge for his work. He's the only cartoonist who can do that. Um and it shows and it might be like one of those things like, you know, you could read his work your entire life and never know. But the point is it's in there. It's part of the the the witches' brew that makes for this magic comic strip. Um you just never know how your how how things are going to play out in terms of how your ed I mean, you know, I I I I I went to engineering school for 3 years. I have a physics uh I have a physics minor. I never use it, but still

[48:07] it informs the way I think. The you know, sort of the scientific method. Like things are you know, how I ascertain whether something is likely to be true. That's very subtle, but you know, it helps me in all sorts of other in in my politics. Um Teflon money John Don um for both of us. Uh for viewers who may not know much about Lebanon, how do you see the country fitting into the Middle East today? Well, how I see the country fitting in the Middle East is going to be vastly different from how Donald Trump sees the

[48:37] country fitting in the Middle East. Because Donald Trump's view is Israel, Israel, Israel. And you know my position on that. I think that we have we have very strong relations with, you know, the the GCC countries, the Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman, and the United Arab Emirates. Very uh good relations. I think we could do a lot to improve our relations with with um Algeria, Tunisia, um even Egypt. Relations with Morocco are very good.

[49:07] Lebanon's a basket case. We should be somehow working to to, you know, to bring the the Lebanese economy back to life. I'm actually going to give an interview to to a Lebanese network this afternoon about that very issue. And location, location, [clears throat] location, right? Lebanon's Lebanon's jammed up between Oh, I mean, Syria was a bigger power, right? And and and it will be again. Yes. >> But Israel, Turkey, I mean, they're surrounded by big bruisers who always

[49:38] push them around. Um, on the other hand, location, location, location, they have a lot of shoreline, they have ports, they have uh beautiful beaches. Um, you know, there's potential there. There's inherent value in Lebanon. I mean, you know, and and >> Agreed. I mean, as as a tourist destination, it could be [ __ ] off the charts. Yeah, without without a doubt. I mean, speaking of which, >> [laughter] >> so we all remember, everybody who's watching this show, I know has seen that

[50:09] AI video that came out at the height of the Gaza war, um of, you know, the Trump Trump Tower Gaza, Trump Casino Gaza with the giant gold Trump statue and all that stuff. I used it in the thumbnail today. Um, do you um you know, yesterday or 2 days ago, you mentioned this yesterday morning, Jared Kushner uh I guess this was yesterday local time at Davos uh made a presentation that kind of echoed that

[50:40] leaked um uh uh Israeli document um that sort of had this vision for Gaza. It's basically full-fledged exploitation, right? It's all rubble. We're going to we're going to build brand new cities on over the rubble and over the bodies of the dead Palestinians. Um, we're going to start from scratch. It's all going to be glitzy and luxurious and touristy. John, questions. Who's going to own this land? How are they going to get and and how will they

[51:10] get it? Will they will would the Israelis or the other you know, Western developers who want to build there, would they sort of go with the Maui model or where they exploit um the misery and and desperation of the of the property owners to get the song to get the the the land at a for a song and then build there? Will the Israelis annex it and just eminent domain it and steal it? Um or is this just all [ __ ] and incapable of happening in the same way that like the

[51:41] Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline project was never going to happen because it required going through a war zone. Um, you know, what's going to happen here? I'm not sure anything is going to happen here. Your the first thing that you said is the I think the most important in that this is not our call. We don't get to make these decisions. We can't just It's not ours. It's not ours and we can't pretend that Palestinians don't live in Gaza or

[52:12] shouldn't live in Gaza or won't live in Gaza in the near future. So that this whole this whole >> think it's a fantasy? I do and I think this whole peace board or peace commissioner or whatever it is that Donald Trump is charging people a billion dollars to be a member of and then just appoints his friends and family. Um, I just don't see how this could possibly carry out a policy. It would be like me just saying, you

[52:44] know what uh there's this island in Papua New Guinea. Uh I'm going to develop it. I'm going to charge people billion dollars to be on my board of directors. I'm going to develop this island. I don't own it. I've never been there. Uh but uh but yeah, I'm I'm going to do this. And then what? You expect people just to step into line? I just don't see it happening. Yeah, I I does feel like they're high. Yeah. Um Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's also but you know, and then there's the politics of it,

[53:14] right? I mean, how are the is how are the Palestinians and those of us who care about them supposed to look at this? Um, you know, basically it's like we're you know, you basically want to build this shining glittering Las Vegas on top of this giant grave the graves of hundreds of thousands of dead Gazans. Yeah. >> Um and you know, what of the people who are suffering horribly there now that you just don't give a [ __ ] about? That's right.

[53:45] Exactly right. I couldn't agree more. Um we should we should before we do some more questions, I I really want to get your thoughts about um I thought it was interesting that Trump um is reported in Politico to be looking to the left for ideas about economic populism, things like a cap on credit card interest, um things like coming up with a uh health and uh you know, improve improvement on Obamacare. And they're saying, "Oh, he's looking to the left rather than the right for a you

[54:17] know, to in order to address the affordability crisis." Well, I mean, famously liberals like to say the truth has a liberal bias. I wouldn't say that's true. But I will say that uh that um you know, caring about ordinary people economically has a left-wing bias. Right-wingers don't get by definition. I've just never seen an idea come out of the Republican Party or out of the right that addresses issues like people are poor, they can't pay their bills, they can't pay their rent. Um, they just

[54:48] don't have ideas for that. You know, we're still waiting for a help a real healthcare plan. I mean, this puts this puts lefties into an awkward position though, right? Like if Elizabeth Warren works with Trump and he ends up selling one of her ideas and and she gets the satisfaction of seeing her idea become come to fruition, but she's also empowered Donald Trump and maybe improved his chances in the midterms. Mhm. Mhm. What do you do in a situation like >> do you do? Yeah.

[55:19] I mean, I I mean, personally I say you if it were me, I'd say, you know, you take you take your you take your wins where you can get them. Yeah. That's kind of my standing position. Yeah. I'm happy to form alliances wherever I can and and take my wins. Thanks for the 10 bucks, Waterways. Much appreciated. Much, much. Um, how hard is it to learn Desert Fox wants to know. How's it hard to learn Lebanese Arabic?

[55:50] Oh, it's actually not that hard. I mean, once you have a foundation in standard Arabic, many of the uh many of the films that are made that are broadcast all around the Middle East are in Lebanese or Syrian dialect and so everybody in the Middle East has an acquaintance with them. Psychonot, good name. John, was there any time in the past that the CIA used the company as a reference to the agency or is that

[56:22] just from the movie? >> Never, ever, ever, never. >> know they don't use this. Never. If anybody ever said to me that they worked for the company, I'd say, "Get the [ __ ] out of here, you phony." Okay. >> Yeah, no. That's just in the movies. Literally no one ever in my life ever mentioned the company. >> right, is that the that's the name of a famous book, right? Inside the Company. Yeah. Um, Cat Melvin, Bustamante told Piers Morgan he would pretty much be doing the same thing as Trump if he were president. Is that reasonable? Like is

[56:53] what Trump's doing strategic in any sense? Yeah, Bustamante also said literally on the same day in another interview that Trump was so insane that he and his wife and kids were leaving the United States permanently. So Bustamante, the fraud that he is, just plays to his audience. Whatever he thinks they want to hear. He also said in that interview with Piers Morgan, he says, "I'm not trying to stroke you, Piers, but your questions are sheer genius."

[57:24] >> [laughter] >> I can't stand that guy. Our folks 92, have you met Putin says, "Have you read Putin's essay on the justification for the invasion of Ukraine? Is it a genuine example of non-Americans caring more about history or just retroactive justification for a land grab?" Well, it's it's certainly the former. I mean, you know, Putin's a huge student of like all Russians. Russians care about history. Uh history's front and present for them.

[57:55] Um and Putin's definitely an avid history of he wants to make Russia great again like like it's wants to roll like it's 1350 all over again. Um, That is right. Now, is that so what's so then uh is it retroactive justification for a land grab? Well, it's definitely just justification, right? That's what he's trying to do. Yes. Obviously. >> Yeah, that's it is. Yeah. Um but you're right, you know, the Sorry, no, no, we only have a minute left. You go right ahead. No, go ahead. I was going to say he understands

[58:26] Russians in general understand history so much better than Americans do and they have such a longer view of issues because their the their views are are rooted in history. Ours are not. Totally. Um and with that, thank you, John, very much as always. Hope you enjoy your weekend and that you stay out of the snow. Um okay, so uh it is it is now 10:00 Eastern, which means it's time for the TMI show with me and Medill a Chan. Please stay tuned for that. Um we dropped a DMZ America

[58:57] podcast yesterday about ICE, which worked out really well. I highly recommend that you go check that out. John and I'll be back here doing Deprogram uh at 9:00 a.m. Eastern time and all next week on uh 9:00 a.m. Eastern time throughout the weekdays. So please tune in then. Have an awesome weekend. Thank you very much and see you see you later, John. Bye, everybody. Bye, Ted. Bye. >> [music]

[1:00:34] >> Mhm.
