Title: DeProgram (Ted Rall)
Show: DeProgram Show with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas
Date: 2025-11-21
URL: https://youtu.be/4uyLgnRHjk4
Duration: 58:00

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[00:00] To see you. >> Good morning, Ted. Good to see you, bud. We are we are deprogram with Ted Rall and John Kiriakou. We're here every Monday through Friday, 9:00 a.m. Eastern time. Thank you for liking, following, and sharing the show. Uh we are as usual ready to go. We've got producer Robbie West bringing up the rear in about 30 minutes. In the meantime, you'll have to put up with my incompetent use of the board. But Robbie did school me on how to try to avoid packet loss. Uh so

[00:31] hopefully whatever that is, I don't even know. Uh they threw me out of engineering school. Um and with good reason. I think that was like one of the you know, better thing one of the better bad things that happened to me that was good for society. You would never want to drive across a bridge that I designed. Um okay, so let's let's move on. We have lots to talk about. Please uh you know, as usual, chime in with your questions and comments if you're watching live on Rumble or YouTube. And thank you for doing that. By the way, um if you want

[01:01] to comment, we are thinking about possibly figuring out a way to take voice calls. Um so uh if that's something that sounds stupid or annoying or sounds great, um you know, we'd love to hear your opinions about that. Um Ukraine uh it looks it looks like um uh Trump is turning his attention to the conflict there. Um there's a 28-point plan that appears to be gaining some traction in light of domestic uh events there in Ukraine. We'll get into that. Um there's a special military delegation

[01:34] on their on route to Kyiv. Um so they're there. Um And then John, there's a story that I'm sure you'll have some Robert Hansen related thoughts um about uh the an FBI whistleblower has stepped forward. Um you know, you you you helped um inspire a lot more whistle whistleblowers have occurred as a result. Um anyway, it turns out that this is kind of crazy. When I read the story, I was like, wait, what? So uh basically the FBI has decided that they they they have they

[02:05] have a counterespionage cell which is in charge of looking for moles. And but you know, they're exempting the executives. Yes. So you know, cuz after all, it's not like a high-ranking executive of the FBI has ever been a mole. Oh, never, right? Never never would that happen. Man, let me ask you for a second. Please. >> to a I went to an event last night. Uh it was a book launch for the two IRS whistleblowers who blew the whistle on um

[02:35] on uh Hunter Biden's uh income tax evasion. Right? They were specifically told, "Don't look at the laptop." And they're like, "What are they crazy, their bosses? Of course we're going to look at the laptop." And they found that he spent $10,000 at a sex club and tried to write it off as a deduction um line iteming line iteming it as um golf

[03:05] club membership. Right? A golf country club membership. It was a sex club. He spent $10,000 in one night in a sex club. I was going to say like how much sex can one man have? Well, when you're on that much meth, I can see having $6,000 >> [laughter] >> in one night. When you're on that much meth, but the reason I'm bringing this up is first of all, these guys were very kind to me last night. And Brad Birkenfeld was there. There are a bunch of whistleblowers and that we inspired them to go public. They knew it was going to

[03:36] cost them their careers. Um but Senator Grassley was there. Chairman Comer was there. Chairman Jordan was there. And the Secretary of the Treasury Becent was there. And I'll tell you what, man, when I blew the whistle on the torture program, I stood alone. And now the fact that there are all these political people saying, "You know, it's unacceptable to treat whistleblowers this way."

[04:07] I loved it. Now, the bad >> need a shield law. We still need a shield law. And and the bad part of this is every one of those people I just mentioned is um is a Republican. I It looks like I froze. Doggone it. Yeah, we can hear you. Oh, good. >> Okay, there you are. Okay. Um every one of those people was a Republican that I just mentioned. There were no Democrats there at all. No Democrats at all. And then as it so happened, >> in 1979 that being the case? Ridiculous. As it so happened, while I was there, I

[04:39] got a call from not from Fox News. And they asked if I would go over to the studio and do a hit at 8:30 on the Jesse Watters show. I said, "Sure, what do you want me to talk about?" And they said, "We want you to talk about this advertisement that the Democrats, six Democratic members of Congress, have come out with led by Elissa Slotkin, the former CIA analyst who I used to work with on Iraq. Um she's now a senator from Michigan.

[05:09] Uh they did this advertisement geared directly at the military saying, "Remember, you have to disobey an illegal order. You have to disobey. Be strong. Disobey illegal orders." This is just a a shot at Trump, right? Cuz they want people to believe that Trump is going to refuse to leave the White House. It's ridiculous. It's because the Democrats don't stand for anything that they're doing something like this. So Slotkin and I happened to be walking in the building at the same time. I said,

[05:40] "Hi, Elissa." And she just looks at me and then turns her head. And I was like, "Okay." That just made me Ted, it made me so angry. I went on Fox and I eviscerated her and the Democrats. So I go on and >> Rightly so. I said, "Why do you think" He says to me, "Why do you think the Democrats are doing this?" And I said uh "Because they have no ideas. And because they stand for nothing. Uh this is the whole Democratic platform. It's vote for me because I'm

[06:11] not the other guy. I say it all the time on my own show." I said, "Vote for me because I'm not the other guy." And I said, "And how rich is it? Excuse me, cuz I'm in a bad mood this morning. It's okay. It's more fun for us. How rich is it that when I was arrested after blowing the whistle on the illegal and immoral torture program, it was the Democrats that went after me, not the Republicans. But now they want everybody to refuse to follow illegal

[06:41] orders. No, it's it's it's bad. Um John, let me pur a propos of that. Um so I had a job interview at Vox, and which is a democratically Yeah. oriented uh you know, news site. This was a several years ago. And they told And and basically um I had done a piece they had commissioned a cartoon journalism piece for me. And in that and anyway, long story short, in that said, I said uh something

[07:13] about like the CIA claims that. And they said, "Oh, we have a problem with that." It's like, "We in it is our editorial policy." my editor told me, "that anything the Intelligence Committee says is taken as fact Oh my god. And I said, "What?" And I'm like and I'm like, you know, I'm I'm sorry. I'm old school. I think if my if your mother says she loves you, you check it out. Um you know, it's it you're journalist. You don't take anyone. And besides which, the CIA's job is in

[07:43] many cases to dissemble and lie. I mean, it's they should. They have to. Um and so he was like, "But anyway, the point is of the story is not to complain about the corruption of Vox, but really the point is democratically things have changed, right? When you have um Democrats acting the way you describe, Democratic journalists um acting the way I describe. I mean, the Democrats climbed in up the ass of the intelligence community. Um

[08:14] why and how did that happen? Cuz I didn't notice it happening, you know, before it happened or while it was happening. Yeah, that's a good question. You know, it it used to be when nobody from the CIA would ever run for elected office unless they'd been in the CIA for a minute and then decided it wasn't for them. Like Porter Goss. Porter Goss was in the CIA for for 4 years. He was a failed case officer. He moved to Florida, became a a multimillionaire real estate developer, and then got himself elected to Congress,

[08:45] became chairman of the Intelligence Committee, and then went back to be an absolutely terrible um like historically terrible uh CIA director. But but time was when that was really highly unusual. And now it seems like people at the CIA like everybody envisions himself as or herself as governor of Virginia or a member of Congress. I remember when Will Hurd uh resigned to run for Congress, I said,

[09:15] "Will, you know, that's not really a step up to run for Congress. What are you doing?" And he ran and he won. He won. He won three terms. >> He tried to recruit me to run for Congress, and I told him the same thing. Yeah. Will won three terms. Stepped down. Yeah. And then uh and then quit. Yeah. He realized. Thanks uh so for the dollar and and the comment. Also, thanks to Hyperneurotic for the $2 and the advice

[09:46] about avoiding packet loss, which I still don't really understand. All right, here's a question for you, John. Okay. >> this is from Fwa as I'm going to pronounce it, 6624. Um when an when an agency recruits someone as high level as a president, how do you keep them in check? I would think that they don't need the money anymore. An example would be Jelani. That's a great question. And it's a rather important question. >> [clears throat] >> Nine times out of 10, you actually recruit the person when

[10:17] they're a junior level nobody, and then they rise through the system and they become president or prime minister or defense minister or foreign minister. When that happens, you just kind of put them on ice. You cut off contact uh, while they're president or prime minister. And if they have something important to say, they'll ask to see the US ambassador. The US ambassador knows that's a signal to bring you along, and then you collect the intelligence while the ambassador pretends not to listen in the corner of the room. Otherwise, if it's somebody

[10:50] like Jelani, for example, um, or now we know Hamid Karzai, Mhm. the the CIA station chief just goes straight into the office and, you know, does the meeting. You know, suitcases full of money and and all that good stuff. >> do you keep them in How do you keep that person, you know, How do How do you run them without them getting out of control? >> [sighs]

[11:20] >> Well, look at Manuel Noriega. He went out of control. And you see what the US response was. The US response was to essentially overthrow him, kidnap him, occupy his country, and put him in prison for the rest of his life. And that's really what it comes out to. It's like you're fired. Uh, thanks Toby for the two Australian dollars and the thought. Agree, pardon John. Uh, Marble, thanks for the $4.99. Swirling green indeed. Swirling green is people. Just remember that. It's very important to remember

[11:51] that. Thanks for the five bucks to 7371. Mojor, just heard uh, first heard about the Huckabee Pollard story from you guys first, and also Pod Save America. It's not in any of my news apps. Why do you think that is? See, That's a good question. >> [clears throat] >> That is a good question. It's always, like I say, it's never about what they say. It's Well, it's usually not about what they say. It's usually about what they don't say. Yeah. Yeah, uh, what It should be. It should

[12:21] be on the on the, you know, above the fold page one of every of every news publication in America today. And and you're right, it's not. Moro, thanks for the five bucks. Any thoughts on doing a live show and meet or meet and greet in the New York New Jersey area? I'd be totally down. So would I. I would do that. Yeah. I I'll be there. Sure. I mean, I'm local. Um, Yeah, I I'd love to do that. Fasmatas, I am very sorry, but John already did the Alec Baldwin story yesterday. You just go back over on

[12:51] Rumble and he you can listen to it over there. Uh, so, yeah. Um, thanks for the dollar FU so Democrats are the Seinfeld party, a party about nothing. That's funny. Oh, that's good. Oh, I wish I had thought of that. >> But that would be more entertaining. Yeah, that would be more entertaining. But that But that's a really great, um, one-liner. I think I might steal that. Who said that? Uh, who Sorry, I'm I'm I'm scrolling. >> Oh, sorry. Sorry. Okay, that's okay. Uh,

[13:22] it's it's FU so. Excellent. That's That's excellent, FU so. I'm going to I'm going to take that. That is very very funny. Um, okay. Uh, well, some criticism. You complain about them not standing up for anything, says Sneaker Dad. But And when you do, you complain. I don't know what what Really? Be more specific, please. I I I don't see that one. Uh, here, I'll put it back up. >> Okay, thanks.

[13:54] I'm sorry. I'm like having This is is so hard to Here we go. I'm putting it up. It's up. Thanks. Uh, I still don't see it, but that's okay. I'll find it. Oh, it's You have to be watching on like, I guess, on Rumble. Okay, on Rumble. >> I'm watching I'm doing this through Rumble Studio. Okay. Um, thanks Ray, about the comment about my cartoon. Yeah, I was pretty pleased with that. I didn't know if that It's about pointing out the fact that, uh,

[14:26] you know, food stamps are back, but all the food stamps are going to do is allow people to buy more [ __ ] craps crap food that's going to give them health problems that they're not going to be able to pay for by going to go to the doctor. Um, May I interrupt for 1 second? >> Please. Now, I'm right now seeing Sneaker Dad. I complain about them not standing up for anything, and when they do, I complain. What do they stand for? Yeah, that's Literally, name one thing that the Democrats have actually stood up for. I'm I'm waiting. I told you I I've said

[14:59] in the past, I was a third generation Democrat. And when they turned into the Republicans, I walked. And And now they're worse than the Republicans. I My mom took me door to door, you know, leafleting pamphleteering for George McGovern in 1972. And I worked for Democratic campaigns. I was youth coordinator for Dukakis in 1988. Um, you know, I mean, I was a I was a as Democrat as they come. I was true blue. But I'm with you, John. They

[15:31] don't [ __ ] stand for They're Republicans now. Yeah, they're Republicans. Especially on these foreign peace issues. FU so wants to know from How much is the CIA involved in the color revolution in Mexico against the socialist president? I've received a couple of emails from friends in Mexico about this. And I would have to say that that they probably are involved. Um, just because this thing looks too perfectly set up. I I I don't have

[16:03] any evidence on which to base that. Mhm. But, uh, but it looks like, uh, something's going on in Mexico. And there's a There's also a question from, um, I just saw it. From, um, Well, there are two. Uh, one from Shawn Whitman. Uh, I've been watching you for a year. Love your insight. Thank you. A recent post by, uh, The Majority Report says Trump may have been an FBI informant. Do you think this is possible? Absolutely. Absolutely possible. Because, listen,

[16:35] 99.9 times out of 100, when the FBI goes to someone and says, "We're the FBI. We're doing an investigation and we need your help." They're going to say, "Of course, I'll help. I'm a patriotic American. Of course, I'll help the FBI." And so, over the course of all those years, with Trump bumping up against organized crime in New York, for example, um, foreign oligarchs and billionaires, absolutely. I would be shocked if he had

[17:07] not been a source for the FBI. Now, that's That's an interesting Yeah, well, that's a good point, right? Now, he's he definitely was so crime adjacent that >> Yes. Yes. Um, Greg, thanks so much for the five bucks. And they said He said he would fly out to a meet and greet with John. >> Well, I I would totally >> just take the bus. >> [laughter] >> I would totally do that. We should set it up. All right. Well, hey, listen. By the way, you know, if you guys if any if you're listening or watching and you have access to a venue that could

[17:39] sponsor an appearance by John, me, both of us, one of us, um, you know, just reach out to us. We can, you know, we we need What we always need is a sponsor We need a venue and ideally an honorarium. Um, and and and transportation. And that's not so hard. People will do that. People can make money by having us come out. I mean, you know, it's like they can sell tickets and they can make a profit. I mean, you know, that's fine, you know, so it's That's how this used to work. I

[18:11] don't know why it's so complicated now. Seriously. Uh, anyway, um, here we go. Phil says, and I disagree with this, but I want to put up stuff that I put up stuff that I disagree with. It's my understanding that the Dems lost their old school base when they went way left. That's when they lost the moderates, their long-term supporters. We >> Well, I I would strongly disagree with that. I I think they went way right. They walked away from organized labor. They embraced wars of choice. I think they moved

[18:42] solidly to the right. That's That's That's my take as well. I think what really happened is they started chasing corporate contributions in the '90s. I mean, Bernie Sanders talks about this quite eloquently and at length, and I think extremely credibly. And I think that's what happened. And then like once you start to take their money, you have to take their calls and you have to do what they want. Moro, thanks for the $4.99. Any thoughts on Sorry, we already have that one. Tobby J, five thanks for the five bucks. Any Any thoughts on Candace Owens

[19:12] investigating Charlie Kirk's death? Uh, I touched on this yesterday. >> Yeah, uh, I I really want to like Candace Owens since she's come around on Palestine, but she's just so nutty. And she makes these wild accusations like the Egyptian military following Charlie Kirk's wife. They're not based on anything. There's no evidence of any of this stuff that she's saying. So, I don't I wouldn't even call this an investigation. I would

[19:43] call >> That's what I would say. Yeah. It's just bullshitting. It's just talking. >> Yeah. It's It's spitballing is what it is. >> I like that. Um, all right. So, should we talk about Ukraine? I mean, obviously this is a story that um has been going on uh long enough that you and I were in very different places of employment and places in our lives when it all started. And uh you know, and it's kind of still in a weird way surprising to me that it ever came to that and that it and and that it's still grinding on. There's so

[20:13] much about it that surprises me and also how this became this crazy cause célèbre and I mean like go on and on. I I It's It's weird to me that the Ukrainians provoked it. It's weird to me that the Russians allowed themselves to be provoked. It's weird to me that the Russians didn't close the deal. It's weird that the entire Western world decided to make this the hill that they wanted to have their economy die on. The whole thing is weird. Um, that they Nord Stream is weird, how it went down, all the whole thing. But anyway, so

[20:44] currently Zelenskyy, we've talked about this, everybody who listens to this show knows that he has this uh buddy, Timur Mindich, uh who's basically uh basically running like the Enron of Ukraine and causing rolling blockouts and he's uh you know, he and his minions are basically suspected of stealing at least 100 million people, uh maybe more from the from Ukraine. And so so far Zelenskyy himself has dollars, right? From the investigation.

[21:15] Um but um you know, Zelenskyy is obviously politically weak. He's He's back on his heels right now. And so a lot of people are speculating and I kind of agree with their speculation that Trump used this as an opportunity to kind of uh push through a deal that otherwise Ukraine might not agree to. And basically it's the deal that we kind of know all along. It's mostly a deal that favors Russia um where the existing lines Now, John,

[21:46] what's happening is the existing lines are kind of the Ukrainians accept that they've lost that territory and it's never coming back. Now, they're saying that they don't want to loot seed additional territory [clears throat] that is not yet under Russian control. Right. Isn't this exactly what we have all said from the very beginning that the that the Ukrainians are going to have to walk away from the territory where where um most people are native Russian speakers.

[22:18] So, Donetsk and Luhansk, they're going to have to walk away from Crimea, which has only been Ukrainian since like 1953 anyway. Right. >> We've all said that from the very beginning. And they couldn't join NATO, but they could join fast track um the European Union. And that's exactly what this thing's going to turn out to be. >> missiles and and not maybe demilitarization, but reduced militarization. By the way, that's Russia and the US doing Ukraine a favor. I wish someone would tell the US to cut its military in half so that we could

[22:50] start feeding the homeless. Seriously. Um Totally agree. So, I mean like if you know, you don't want to be like North Korea where all of your resources go into the military. Um But anyway, so all right. So, how this looks like obviously the Trump administration is putting some oomph behind it, right? They're sending the Secretary of the Army and a and General Randy George off to to Kyiv to That's a big deal. It's a big deal, right? So, it seems to me like uh and we had Trump

[23:20] today uh or yesterday saying, "You know, I've already I've already fixed eight wars. I should now I'm working on the ninth one." So funny. [snorts] Uh I mean, maybe tell the Palestinians who keep getting blown up every day. >> Yeah, he confuses ceasefires for, you know, the ends of of wars. Yeah, they're not definitely not the same thing. Um but you know, I mean look, ceasefires are always appreciated, but nevertheless. So, all right. So, what happens now? Um I mean, it looks like

[23:52] Zelenskyy is chastened. It looks like he's more I mean, but on the other hand, you never know with him cuz he's such a weasel. Um you know, over you know, over the last year or so, we've seen him go from like, "Oh, no, I'm I'm serious about peace." to "But I'm only serious about peace if I don't have to give up any territory at all." Right. You know, the thing about Zelenskyy, I I think he he's at the point now where he's wondering number one, if he can

[24:22] make it to the end of the Trump administration, which he can't. There's We have 3 years to go. And number two, even if he could, will another Republican win and put him out of business or will a Democrat come in and rescue him and save him? I I learned just recently that he actually owns a home in Greece. I I've been thinking that he would end up in in London. Um but he's got a home in Greece as well. And I wonder if he's at the point where

[24:54] he's just throwing up his hands and saying, "I give up. I'm going to get out of here." Yeah. I mean I mean look, he always had to know that this was this was not a permanent gig. Even though he did cancel the election. Um >> Yes. Yes, he did. Yeah. But he as he says, he has no choice. I love that. He declares martial law. Martial law means no elections. He's like, "Well, what can I do? My hands are tied. Martial law."

[25:26] Ridiculous. Yeah, ridiculous. Ridiculous is right. But you know, the fact that that such a senior delegation is going to Ukraine tells me that something's up. It It looks like it looks like Trump is is serious about forcing this. And um Zelenskyy realizes he just doesn't have any more cards to play. Hilarious if you so. But Trump ended the Clone Wars, the Wars of Middle Earth.

[25:56] >> [laughter] >> Where's his Nobel Peace Prize? Trump ended all the wars. >> [snorts] >> Uh yeah. Uh it it's yeah. Um okay. So, do you think So, you So, you I mean, what do you want to care to handicap this? I mean um So, what what what happens next? I mean, I would say a cease You know, Trump, ceasefire comes first, right? So >> to have to be kind of a cascading series of things. Uh you announce a ceasefire, you announce elections, Zelenskyy leaves the

[26:29] country, they have the elections, the new parliament uh ratifies whatever deal is made in the end, and then the thing's finally over with Zelenskyy living in exile with the hundreds of millions of dollars that he's looted from the Ukrainian treasury or from the US government. Which is the same thing these days. >> Yeah. Um well, I mean so here's the thing. Like Russia has basically been driving a very hard bargain and I I wonder you and I talked a little bit about how maybe Putin wasn't really

[27:00] reading Trump. I mean, I think Trump was um I mean, he kind of missed the point. Like Trump really wants a deal. He doesn't care about the specific details. Vladimir Putin, as anyone who's ever watched him speak knows, he's all about detail. I mean, that that that man is like, you know, there is not one wrinkle in his shirt, there is not you know, every every every I is is dotted, every T is crossed just so. I I think maybe it was a cultural

[27:31] thing that kind of like stopped us from getting to this point. I mean, I think Trump would have loved to just have a broad outlines of a of a peace deal, you know, a year ago and then just and then just sort of like work out the details later. Yeah. But Russians don't roll that way. I I think that's exactly right. And and Trump is very much not a detail person. >> Right. >> All through his entire career, he's made the the very broad, you know, policy call, whether it was his business

[28:02] policy or later on governmental policy, and then let the underlings deal with the details. Um I mean, so I guess I'd want to answer this next question cuz I think it's really important for us to answer it. But also I while we're answering it, I mean, what's the future for Ukraine? I mean, like let's just say this deal goes through. I mean, I actually think it's going to benefit Ukraine, but um in the long run because they are going to be rid of their restive population in the east who

[28:34] are ethnically Russian and really never should have been in Ukraine post-1991 anyway. And they're going to have a more culturally and politically unified nation-state. Yeah. Um The [clears throat] I should add to that the the Washington Post it says it says the US is signaling Zelenskyy that if he does not sign this thing by Thursday, Oh, wow. that our support ends.

[29:05] That's the end of it. Ends. That's huge. >> Yeah. Well, that's why he's coming to Jesus. Yeah. Um So, Sudva, here's the question that I alluded to. Are you guys pro-Ukraine or pro-Russia? I can't tell who is more evil, Putin or Putin or Satan. Russia's game has always been having ethnic Russians live in Ukraine and take over. Putin equals evil cousin to the devil. Uh okay. I [clears throat] Frankly, it's not my area of expertise. I've been

[29:37] clear about this for years. I really don't so much care for either side. I don't really care. I'm far more focused on the Middle East, but on on this fight, I don't have a I don't have a dog in this fight. Um I look I I like I like I like first and foremost, I'm a humanist and I care about people and I don't and I and I don't like unnecessary conflict. And so toward that end, I'm always obsessed with systems and whether systems work or

[30:09] not. Um and the the breakup of the Soviet Union left a lot of nation-states that didn't quite work well. And the and that division between Ukraine and Russia didn't work and that's why they've been on and off again with fighting since you know since pretty much since 2014. Um and you know there was conflict before that. Um So look, as far as I'm concerned, Russia is an autocracy um and it's like you know, I would not be able to thrive there

[30:41] doing what I do uh and that's a problem, you know, so um at that said, I love the Russian people. I like the Ukrainian people, too. Um you know, the Ukraine has a has a has a Nazi coddling problem. Um you know, it really does. Uh and you know, and and I so I I would have to say historically, I'm kind of like as a student of World War II, I recall the fact that you know, Ukrainians were guarding Auschwitz and the Red Army liberated Auschwitz. So but it's been a long time since 1945. So

[31:14] um you know, I mean what we need is for people to get along and live in peace side by side as much as possible. I mean that's that's that's that's my bias as it is. Um and I do think also I kind of grew up with like you did with sphere of spheres of influence and I kind of buy the fact that if you're a huge country, which Russia is, you don't really have to put up with nonsense along your around your borders. Um you know, if you're the US, you don't put up

[31:44] with nonsense from Canada or Mexico. Um you know, don't get too spicy. Yes, you're a nation-state. Yes, you have sovereignty, but but I don't know. I I guess it's part of it is cuz of just the way I grew up during the Cold War. >> During the Cold War, I'm I had the same experience. I think that's I think that's right. I mean I also think like if I were the president of Russia, here's the thing. If I were the president of Russia, would I have done anything differently than Vladimir Putin even though I'm a leftist? No. Um I I would have invaded, too, because uh it would have been like

[32:15] you guys are out of control and you're in bed with my enemy, NATO. If if I was uh the president of Ukraine, would I have done what Zelensky did? No. I would have I would have made nice. So you know, cuz it's like you have this huge country Yes. that used to own you Yes. >> right next door and it's paranoid. Don't piss them off. And yeah, Russia doesn't What people don't understand about Russia is they're paranoid cuz they have no natural no natural geographical barriers that protect their their territory. Right. They they just have

[32:46] open steps. It's plain it's easy. They don't have giant ass mountains to protect them or two huge oceans like we do. That's that's the issue. That's why they're paranoid. Hey, we've got a a good question from Cooper Duper 23. How common is nepotism in intelligence, CIA, FBI, other unknown agencies? That was always a real beef of mine. That it was it was a serious beef of mine, not necessarily nepotism from

[33:17] parent to child. Although you see like entire families in the CIA, it's it's not uncommon at all. I worked with a guy when I first got hired, his dad was a senior officer in the senior intelligence service. His mom was they were both in the Directorate of Operations, his mom and dad and then he got hired, then his brother got hired, then his sister got hired. The whole family working in the CIA. I sat next to a guy whose uh younger brother got hired

[33:47] right out right out of grad school and then his younger sister got hired when she finished grad school. Does would the agency naturally trust trust you more if you came from a a family of uh CIA royalty like that? >> Yeah, you have a leg up there. But I'll tell you what I really objected to. I remember my one of my bosses saying "Hey, are you uh you looking forward to the promotion panels?" Mhm. I was up for a GS I forget what, 13 or 14. And I said,

[34:17] "No, actually, I'm not." He said, "Why not?" I said, "Because I know they have only six slots to promote and I know that so-and-so, who's a member of the promotion panel, is [ __ ] this woman that I'm competing against and I know that she's going to get promoted because he's [ __ ] her." I said, "I know how things work around here." And sure enough, she got promoted and I got passed over and then the Deputy Director for Operations gave me an out-of-cycle promotion cuz I'd gotten screwed.

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[35:50] lean can learn all about this revolutionary protein. Click the link in the chat or scan the QR code on screen in order to watch. Um okay. Okay. Good enough. Uh Okay, so um any cooler talk F U So wants to know and was there any water cooler talk at the CIA about aliens and alien craft retrieval? No. >> [laughter]

[36:20] >> No, nothing. Nothing. We always figured that was the Pentagon's bailiwick. John, you want to take a critical comment? Sure. >> You're you're a big boy, right? I'm a big boy. I can take it. Here we go. So it's up on YouTube. I like John in general. This is from Light Fixing, but his apologetics for I guess apologism for Russia is [ __ ] pathetic. How can you be against Israel's aggression and not Russia's no Are you crazy? Listen, on the morning of the Russian

[36:51] invasion of Ukraine, I said on my radio show on a Russian [ __ ] network and these were my exact words, "I unreservedly condemn the Russian invasion of Ukraine and I urge Russian troops to leave Ukrainian territory immediately." So don't give me this nonsense about being pro-Russian. Cuz that's what it is. It's nonsense. >> I've known John for years and I I just don't think there's any credibility any any grounds for that for that

[37:21] >> That's outrageous. Um Evil Robot Army, thanks for the $5 over on YouTube. John, did you ever interact with NRO? Is it common for people to move between the letter agencies or do careers tend to stay in one agency and maybe explain >> Also also a good question. NRO is the National Reconnaissance Office. Um they uh they manage and interpret the overhead photography from from our uh satellite system. Uh it was very common actually for us to

[37:51] liaise with NRO or for NRO analysts to transfer over to the CIA to the Directorate of Intelligence. My second wife actually began her career as an NRO analyst. Um it it is I'm going to say not uncommon for people to transfer from NSA to CIA or from FBI to CIA, occasionally from DIA to CIA, but it's very very rare for CIA officers to go somewhere else because we had this idea that we were the we were the top of

[38:23] the heap. And if you were to go to any other um agency, it was a step down. I did work with a guy, he was a young branch chief when I was a new analyst um and he he got passed over for a GS-15 and and left in a fit of pique and went over to the Pentagon and within five years was the Assistant Secretary of of Defense for POW/MIA Affairs. So that that worked out very well for him, but otherwise

[38:54] yeah, it's not uncommon for for other agencies to transfer to the CIA. It's highly uncommon to go from CIA to other I think only a small fraction of 1% of of Americans even know that there are other intelligence agencies beside the CIA and if you count them, the FBI. Yeah. Or NSA. Um and there's so many. Um this I love this question. Thank you so much, Hamza. John, what was the reaction of your parents when you joined the agency?

[39:26] Oh, my parents were beside themselves with worry. My parents had this vision of the agency from like, you know, James Bond movies or something. Um I I did have to tell my dad at one point. I was stationed in Athens and and my dad like stood up in church one Sunday and announced that I was an undercover CIA officer in Athens. So, if anybody needed any help in the American Embassy there, they could just call me. And so, one day

[39:57] all these people from church in Newcastle, Pennsylvania started calling me at my desk in the station in Athens asking for help getting their relatives visas. And I'm like, what the [ __ ] is going on here? And so, I called my mom and she's like, I told him I told him not to say anything. I said, "Dad, I said you're going to get me killed. I'm undercover here. It's a critical threat for terrorism post. Nobody is supposed to know that I'm in the CIA. If word leaks out and now it's out,

[40:30] I could get killed. I said, "What are you doing?" And so, every person who called I had to say, "My dad has a touch of dementia. I'm not with the CIA. He doesn't know what he's talking about." And then finally it just kind of died a quiet death. >> [laughter] >> Parents can really [ __ ] you up. He was so proud of me that he just that came out with it in church. Oh my god, that's so funny. That's like

[41:02] my mom on my very first book signing for my very first book she bum rushed the stage like she was at a Run-DMC concert and basically like, "I'm his mom. I'M SO PROUD." [laughter] YOU KNOW WHAT? MY COLLEGE ROOMMATE, Eddie Harwitz, Eddie got an internship with Senator Tom Harkin, progressive Democrat from Iowa. And his

[41:32] mom and stepdad came to Washington and he scheduled a courtesy call on Senator Harkin. And Tom Harkin was just the loveliest guy in the world. You know, just a sweet guy. His power authority never went to his head. So, he was very happy to meet Eddie's mom and stepdad. So, he he took them to Harkin's office and Harkin says, "You know, Eddie works so hard for us and he worked on the campaign and we're really appreciative of all the things that he does for us here in the office." And she says she goes like this to Eddie. She goes like

[42:02] this she says, "All I want is that he should be a good boy." >> [laughter] >> And he's like, "Mom." I'll never forget it. That's so awesome. >> [laughter] >> I I'm really I really love this question from Faraz Matar. Um this I have a lot to say about this, but you should go first because of that, John. Faraz Matar is asking, "Is the POW/MIA that black iconic flag the same thing? I've always heard that was disinformation like John Birch or LaRouche stuff?" Yes. Um that we had no

[42:35] soldiers left in Vietnam. That's yes. >> Ah, I see. I I have always found it very very hard to believe that we have anybody in in Vietnam. We did. >> Very hard to believe. I mean, that flag is still in front of US post offices. It's It's It's all over the country. It's It's all You know, you see it everywhere, right? And there's that image of like the watchtower you know, with like the By the way, if you look carefully, the guard has the

[43:07] little you know, this Vietnamese peasant pointy Vietnamese peasant hat like in the watchtower. And And you know, and and the and it's it's not the It's the MIA aspect. And I mean, there certainly are MIAs, right? But like they're conflating POWs and the implication is that there are Americans being held like Rambo 37 in you know, somewhere by the dirty commies like in the rice paddies. Right. By the

[43:39] gooks. It's It's not true. It's like And and like you know, Vietnam is lousy with American tourists. I I would think at some point, you know, American tourists would have like been backpacking through the jungle and would have been like, "Oh, LOOK AT THAT POW CAMP." YES. Not to mention these [ __ ] would be like 80 years old now. Um I mean, it the whole thing is it but it it feeds into this victim narrative that like really makes you know, that really drives a lot of American politics. Like everyone's picking on us. You know,

[44:10] we're the victims of injustice and it's just all deflection and distraction from the reality which is that it's the exact opposite. Yes, indeed. I I just have never I've never believed it. Now, if they went out into the jungle and started doing a dig, might they stumble upon, you know, bones or bone fragments? Of course. Of course. Yeah. Yeah, no no. Hey Ted. Ted, breaking news. Sophia Negroponte, the the daughter of former DNI John

[44:43] Negroponte, was convicted again of murder after killing her boyfriend. I I I think we've talked about this in the past. Sophia Negroponte, I'll tell you I I met I met her when she was 6 years old. When I worked for John Negroponte at the United Nations, he was the ambassador to the United Nations during George W. Bush. She was just a little girl. The ambassador and Mrs. Negroponte had adopted Sophia and her sister from Honduras.

[45:13] Um they were like six and four when I met them. She grew up. She's 32 now. She grew up to have a very serious drinking problem. And she Several years ago she was drunk and at a mutual friend's home with her boyfriend in Rockville, Maryland. They got into an argument and she stabbed him in the neck. Um and she killed him. [ __ ] She She went to the kitchen, took out a knife and stabbed him in the neck and killed

[45:44] him. And then her housemates called 911. The cops came. She said that she didn't realize what she was doing, but she did it. She confessed. She did it. I'm so sorry. I shouldn't have done it. They arrested her. They charged her with um with second-degree murder. She was convicted and sentenced to life in prison. Then she appealed and she won the appeal. It was something about jury instructions. Mhm. And so, the trial

[46:15] restarted 2 weeks ago. This time her attorneys offered up DNA evidence said saying that she did not stab him. That it wasn't her DNA on the knife. It was somebody else's DNA. But then everybody else in the house said, "No, she jumped on him. She knocked him down. She sat on his chest and she stabbed him in the neck with the knife." And so, just now she was convicted again. Okay. And she's facing again life

[46:45] without parole. What a bizarre story. Bizarre. And Ambassador Negroponte, it says now he's 86 years old. He and his wife Diana sat in the first row of the courtroom every single day. This trial and the previous trial. They're heartbroken. I last saw her I was invited to a Christmas party at his house in like 2000 8 or 9. I think it was 8.

[47:18] And I I haven't seen I haven't seen them since, but yeah, this is going to be tough for anybody. No doubt. >> Wow. Um I'm being asked by Ali, "Why don't I do mini podcasts and such?" You want some of mine? I've got five today. Well, I don't Yeah, I mean, I'm It's like It's like the rules of being a vampire. You have to be invited. Um so, if people invite me, you know, I will go. But if I'm not invited, I'm not I'm not going to go. Um

[47:50] yeah, whatever. Uh so, you know, let's see here. Oh, Toby, thank you for the $2. Can I share more about my master class? Yes, I'm going to send out another announcement today on Substack and I'm going to put it on Twitter as well. I'll put it on Facebook, too. So, I'm doing a surveillance and surveillance detection class, but we're extending it to eight different pods. I'll do three on surveillance and surveillance detection and we're going to do five on

[48:20] cybersecurity and how to protect yourself and your computer systems. We're doing it in conjunction with Bay Path University in Massachusetts. So, I'll send I'll send more information out today. Thanks for asking. >> Okay. John, should we talk about this FBI story? Yeah, let's talk about the FBI story. This is nuts. So, the So, basically insider inside the inside the bureau is accusing the internal counterespionage

[48:52] cell. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's that seems like the the counterintelligence branch, right? >> It's exactly what it is. Yeah. >> To make sure that there that there's no one working against America and the FBI within the FBI. No Robert Hansens. It turns out that they have a quote-unquote executive exemption that prevents that cell from looking into fraud allegations of fraud, retaliation, or espionage even if there's a credible tip that comes in from another US government

[49:25] agency. The They've been Anybody who's who's tried to violate this rule has been punished and uh, and basically retaliated against, ironically. Um, and uh, and so this is starting to break now in the Washington Examiner and other right-wing media places. It's so far not getting much traction in democratically aligned uh, stuff. And of course, obviously you think right away about Robert Hanssen.

[49:55] After following Robert Hanssen, how could there be an exception for anyone up to and including the director? >> Right? So, Brian Kelley was a friend of mine at the CIA. He was a senior officer in the CIA's Counterintelligence Center. Robert Hanssen accused Brian of being the mole in the US government. We knew that there was a second mole after Aldrich Ames was uh, was arrested. And Brian was not just suspended from the CIA, um, he was

[50:27] threatened with with the death penalty. And his daughter was threatened with arrest if she wouldn't rat out her father. Well, Brian was completely innocent. The mole was actually Hanssen Hanssen himself. And so finally, Hanssen, who was the head of the FBI's mole hunting unit, was arrested for being the mole and sentenced to life without parole. He died two years ago in his steel bunk in the supermax in Florence, uh, Colorado.

[50:59] So, we know from history that Russian moles or Chinese moles or or Cuban or Israeli or whomever can be in the FBI just as easily as they can be in the CIA or the Navy or wherever they happen to be. If what this whistleblower is telling us is true, this has to be dealt with swiftly and harshly. Um, and the way things like this have been said

[51:30] >> true. It's obviously true because >> to be true. Because I mean, I'm a student of of of official corporate and government denials, right? Well, so the absence of a denial here means that it's true. I mean, there's no denial at all, right? They're not saying, "That's not true. We don't have such an exception." Right. Right. I mean, by definition, it's true. By definition, it is true. We know historically that it is true. Yeah, and it makes perfect sense and

[52:01] it's like I mean, it's just it's incredible though. I mean, it's like nobody learns from history. I mean, Nobody learns from history. If Hanssen gets access to the news in prison, he's got to be laughing his ass off. Yeah. And Nicholson, get this. There was this [ __ ] I used to work with in the Counterterrorism Center named Nicholson. And when when Aldrich Ames got caught, it never occurred to Nicholson

[52:32] A, that there was another mole, or B, that the CIA had moles in the KGB. So, Nicholson was pissed off that he'd been passed over for promotion. So, he volunteered to the KGB to be a mole for them in the CIA. And he outed more than 120 uh, undercover CIA officers to the KGB, all of whom had to be, as they say, brought in from the cold, so they could no longer be undercover. Um, Nicholson was caught, was sentenced to 30 years.
