Title: Podcast UFO Live Shows
Show: Podcast UFO Live Shows
Date: 2025-10-24
URL: https://youtu.be/9b6OyFgK-Hg
Duration: 13:00

---

[00:00] was invited. I gained 35 pounds in prison because I they had a crooked guard on on the payroll and he would he would smuggle in, you know, pork loin and white wine for the Marsala sauce and mushrooms and tomatoes and pasta and >> we feasted every single night. But I I went to I ate with the Italians in the cafeteria. We had dinners in in their their cells in the evenings. We went to I went to all of their parties, their

[00:31] birthday celebrations. I even went to the mafia Super Bowl party of all things. They were great. And and the funny thing is there's kind of a postcript to this. >> So I this this guy, he became my best friend in the prison and still is one of my best friends today. We talk all the time. So it's about >> Is he out? >> He's out. >> Yeah. Good. >> Um Well, that's what the story's about. He had gotten triple life without parole for a firsttime nonviolent drug offense.

[01:06] >> And so co Congress passed the um the uh second chance act I think is what it was called. And I'm I'm reading the paper. I mean I'm sitting in his cell and I'm reading the paper and I said, "Buddy, have you read this article?" And he said, "No." I said, "This is about you. It's saying that you're eligible for this new federal program." and he said, 'I'm not I'm not smart enough to to even figure out how to do something like that. I said, 'I'll write the appeal.' So, I wrote his appeal. I sent it to the

[01:38] Justice Department and I was released from the prison just a couple of weeks later. I got out in February. His mother calls me in August and she's crying. And I said, "Oh my god, what happened to Mark?" And she said, "No, no, it's good news. They're letting him go." And I said, "They're letting him go." And she said, "The appeal you wrote, he won." >> Wow. >> I was like, "Oh my god, he told me when he got out that that he owes that that

[02:12] he owes me his life." And I said, "Nonsense." I said, "You got screwed." And all you needed was was for things to come together at the right time for the Justice Department to to acknowledge that you got screwed. And as funny as it sounds, he applied for a real estate license. And if you're a convicted felon, you can't have a real estate license. So he wrote to the governor and he said, "Listen, I got screwed and Obama gave me a commutation and I'm a good guy and,

[02:43] you know, nonviolent and all this stuff. Can I have a real estate license? And the governor gave it to him and now he is the number one selling real estate agent at the Jersey Shore. >> Isn't that great? >> Lives in a a stunning house. Tons of friends. He's just an awesome. >> That's so awesome. That's so awesome. I love to hear things like that. >> Yeah. Good guy. >> Unbelievable. You know, I mean, the timing like you said, but if you did not know him and if you did not read that,

[03:13] he might still be there today. >> You know, there were eight people in his conspiracy. He was the only one who left the conspiracy. He said, "This drug thing is not for me. I quit." And he he quit. He was the only one that did. And everybody got arrested by the Drug Enforcement Administration. and they offered everybody deals and he said, "I'm not a rat. I can't rat people out." And so he didn't take the deal, not knowing that

[03:44] everybody else took the deal. So the other seven guys got five and a half years and he got triple life without parole. >> Yeah. >> My god, there must you just must feel like your life is totally over. I bet he's I bet he's extremely grateful every day. >> It's It's a new life. And I'm so happy for him. >> Yeah, great story. >> He didn't deserve that treatment. >> Right. Well, that's that's really Thank you so much for sharing all this with us. Now, we're going to try to get back

[04:16] to the UFO topic somehow. >> And uh but this is all really fascinating. So I I just uh someone sent me a um a a friend of basically the show here and also a friend mutual friend of Chris um >> ah >> uh he sent me this thing about this guy talking about government secrets and it had to do with Neil deGrasse Tyson and two other people there in an interview

[04:47] and the guy basically said that hey uh the government leaks things all the time. That's how they get funding >> constantly. >> So, and and so then the question came up, well, why aren't they leaking about the crash retrievals or the UFOs or things like that? So, I guess I have to ask you, what is your thoughts about um that whole thing? >> I I actually have thought about that and you know, having been in the CIA for 15 years and and having been read into special compartmented programs, I can only conclude that these things are so

[05:21] compartmentalized. so stovepiped that there are too few people who actually are read into the program to leak it. >> You know, this is this is how torture didn't leak for so long. In the in the beginning, there were only 16 people in the entire federal government who knew about the torture program. >> Well, you know, later on it was it was hundreds of people. There were dozens that were actually carrying out the

[05:51] torture. >> That's really I mean I just it just hit me that's so baffling that there's that few people you know I mentioned earlier about meeting with the two gentlemen retired FBI and retired CIA right and we we got into 911 you know talking to the FBI and he talked about yes everything is stovepiped and that's why the information was protected and not enough people there's not enough connections. >> That's a very nice way to put it. The the truth is that the CIA and the FBI

[06:22] have hated each other since 1947 when the CIA was created. And so the CIA knew that the hijackers were in were in the United States and didn't tell the FBI because the CIA wanted to make a run at them and try to recruit them. The FBI knew that there were hijackers who were trying to get into the United States but didn't tell the CIA that they knew the identities of the hijackers.

[06:53] And so because because they refused to cooperate to the point where the CIA and FBI computer systems were not even compatible. >> That's why 911 happened. >> Yeah. And you came in right about that time, right? >> Oh, no. I was already I was already a senior officer by 911. >> Now I thought I thought you mentioned in the interview that we did that they were like getting ready to throw money into all types anything >> after after 911.

[07:24] >> After 911 I got it. Yeah. >> Yeah. I I had a uh I had a uh an idea for an operation just a couple of weeks after 911, a counterterrorism operation. So, I went up to the director of the counterterrorism center, Ambassador Kofer Black, and I said, "Uh, Kofer, I've got a I've got an operation that I want to pass by you." And he put up his hands and he said, "Whatever it is, just do it. I have so much money, I can't possibly spend it all." >> And so, I was on the next plane.

[07:56] >> That's amazing. That's amazing. But, wow. Um, so do you think, um, this is just from being, you know, involved? I know that you there was no UFO, you know, I know the CIA is is like foreign, you know, there it's all foreign >> foreign intelligence >> and then FBI is, you know, American >> domestic >> basically domestic. Yes. But um um there wouldn't be any case where the CIA would be involved with any type of

[08:28] >> Well, it's possible. It's possible. >> Now, I'm going to run a scenario by you like to say if perhaps like David Grush mentioned, he thinks there is crash uh UFOs reverse engineering. Say that >> that would be it. >> That would be it. >> Yeah. >> If if they could develop something that could be dangerous to us somehow. The CIA would never have the lead on something like that. DARPA would have the lead, >> right? >> They would bring in CIA and maybe one or two other um agencies, probably DoD

[09:00] agencies to come in and reverse engineer something like that. But yeah, the CIA would never have the uh would never have the lead. I used to work for this deputy director of the CIA. Um good guy, but he always used to h have this mantra. He would always say, "The job of the CIA is to recruit spies to steal secrets." And I used to think, "Yeah, that's technically true, but we also, you know, fly around the world and murder people

[09:31] and overthrow governments and, you know, >> it's not just recruiting spies to steal secrets." Although I get the sentiment. >> Yeah. Yeah, but >> I mean I can't even understand the how something like that works. you know where that who decides what is you know we have to watch this country we have to watch that country this person may take over that may fall you know we have to get someone in there and you know I mean who can figure all this stuff out with

[10:03] such >> and that's why that's why it fails so often >> and and you know one of the one of the downsides too uh downsides to doing proactive um operations like that they're called covert action programs uh is that and I think this is probably human nature but the CIA always always underestimates the level of blowback. Blowback are the unintended consequences for carrying out an operation.

[10:33] So for example, for example, um I was the notetaker in a principal committee meeting the night before we invaded Iraq. and princip the principles are the president, the vice president, secretary of state, secretary of defense, national security adviser, director of the CIA and the um synet the uh uh commander-in-chief of uh central command. So um my job was to sit silently behind the

[11:04] CIA director and just take notes. One of the senior officials from the from the White House said at the end of the meeting like he couldn't wait for tomorrow because tomorrow we're going to invade Iraq. And he said, "As soon as we cross that border, they're going to throw flowers at us." And I said to the director afterwards, "Do these people know nothing about the Middle East? Do they know nothing about history? The Iraqis are going to see us as

[11:34] foreign invaders and occupiers. They're going to throw bombs, not flowers. And sure enough, >> really >> threw bombs. >> Oh god. >> And then and then we're mired in a in a war for, you know, more than a decade. >> Another war. >> Well, this is Jack who I was just talking about, a mutual friend of uh Chris Leos. So here's the question here and I have to read this out because of the audio part of the show. Considering your experience as a whistleblower and

[12:06] challenges you faced, what advice would you give to individuals who possess credible information about UAPs and who are considering coming forward? Good question, Jack. >> That's a that's a very good question and it's an important question. So I I would highly recommend that you consult with an attorney who specializes in whistleblower rights. There are a bunch of them here in Washington. They may be a little bit harder to find outside of Washington, but um you need somebody who who's going to understand

[12:38] where you're coming from and is going to protect your your rights and and also also protect you from overstepping so that you know the the FBI can't come in and ruin your life or the defense department or the CIA or who whoever else. So, absolutely consult an attorney before you say anything at all publicly and make sure that the attorney is there when you're making the revelation. You'll never ever regret doing that.

[13:08] >> Now, uh I believe David Grush went about it the right way as far as I know. I don't know how much you know about that. Yeah.
