Title: Iran Escalation, Captured Spies: What Really Happens? And More I Going Deeper w/JK - DEEP FOCUS
Show: The Deep Focus Show
Date: 2026-03-03
URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4_p0sXfdMU
Duration: 2324

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[00:03] Hi, I'm John Kiriakou and welcome back to another Q&A session of Deep Focus. Thanks for joining us. Uh before I get started, I want to thank all of you again for taking the time to to like, to subscribe, to share, and tell your friends and family. We've grown by leaps and bounds and it's only thanks to you. And these question and answer sessions are by far my favorite thing to do. So, let's jump right in. Our first question is from MJG. MJG says, "Hey John, what are your thoughts on the Iranian Revolutionary Guard

[00:35] bombing different American Embassies and non-military bases around the Middle East? Did something like this come as a surprise? And is this a risk that the CIA takes into consideration ahead of time? Wishing you the best on your pardon and thank you for the many sacrifices you made for our country." Thank you for that. This is a really good and very important question. On my very first day in operations at the CIA, I was working at the American Embassy in Athens. And

[01:05] I was there literally for 1 hour. I got there at 8:00 in the morning. At 9:00 in the morning, the security officer came up to me and said, "John, we have a walk-in. He only speaks Arabic and he wants to speak to an intelligence officer." So, I put on a disguise as quickly as I could and I went downstairs to interview this young man. Uh he claimed to be a member of Hezbollah and he said that he had been sent to the American Embassy to blow it up by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.

[01:35] And he had had second thoughts. He didn't want to kill anybody. He didn't want to blow it up. It was all of course. He was not a member of Hezbollah. He was actually working for the IRGC. But he wanted us to he wanted us to sort of take pity on him and invite him in and get the story from the beginning all while he's looking around to see where the cameras are, how thick the doors are, are they armored, do I have a gun, do my colleagues have guns? You know, how thick the glass is at the

[02:08] Marine booth. It was a pre-operational planning probe, is what we call it. The reason is because this is what the IRGC does all over the world. With the point being if the United States or the United States and Israel begin attacking Iran, the Iranians can then start attacking American embassies where they find a weak link. After the 9/11 attacks, we appropriated, Congress appropriated

[02:40] billions and billions of dollars to build new embassies all around the world. The first time I ever went to Doha, the American embassy was literally above a grocery store. If you can imagine such a thing, cuz we didn't really have any national interests in Qatar in 1990. Well, now the American embassy in Doha takes up an entire city block, and it is fortified nine ways from Sunday, specifically because of the reason that you cite, that the IRGC is out there testing the security of

[03:11] American embassies and American non-military installations all around the world just so they can blow them up. Terrorism is real, and I'm not making any judgment on the US and Israeli attack on on Iran. I'm opposed to it. I've always been opposed to it, but what I am making a judgment on is that the Iranians do engage in terrorism. They always have, since the 1979 revolution, and they're always looking to see what of the United States can

[03:43] they blow up. Thanks for that question. Jimmy Pockets says, "John, Iran are hitting the hotels and drones uh with drones and missiles. Uh do you think they are targeted attacks on individuals due to actionable intelligence or just random strikes? How good is Iranian intelligence? Cheers. Thanks, Jimmy. Um Iranian intelligence is not good. It's not at all good. It's never been good. And it's because they don't get good training. The Russians will help them out a little bit. The Chinese will help them out a little bit. But

[04:13] essentially, they're on their own. Um they are indeed hitting hotels with drones and missiles, especially in Abu Dhabi and Dubai. They hit a hotel in Muscat a couple of days ago. Um they're they're doing this because it's the best they can do. And what they want to do is to affect the local economies, right? It's one thing if you fire a rocket or send drones to attack an American, you know, military installation in Abu Dhabi or Dubai. Nobody's going to really care. But if

[04:45] you hit the the Burj Al Arab, the the big hotel that's in the shape of a sail, or you hit the Jumeirah Towers Hotel, where I was staying a week ago, by the way, um you're going to affect the economy. And uh you're going to make people staying in those hotels leave the country. So, that's the plan. These are not targeted attacks against individuals. They're random attacks just trying to do as much damage as possible. Jacob Sanford says, "Hey John, love your

[05:16] content. First and foremost, um you have me inspired to learn about more about the world around me." I'm glad to hear that. Thank you. "Your knowledge and expertise on the Middle East blows me away. For someone wanting to start getting a better idea of the complexities of the Middle East, how far back into the history books would you really need to go to understand better the Middle East as it is today?" That's a great question. Um and I would say you only really need to go back to the end of World War II. Um listen, you can go back 5 5,000 years

[05:50] if you want to study Egypt and Mesopotamia and ancient Persia, of course. But, to get an idea of of today's Middle East, you really only have to go back to the end of the Second World War. Start with um with a book called The House of Saud. Uh, even as a CIA analyst who already knew a lot about Saudi Arabia, that book really put me on the right path. Uh, you can see how Saudi Arabia was created out of nothing, nothing but

[06:21] sand. There are two parts of Saudi Arabia, the Nejd and the Hejaz. The Hejaz used to be a part of Transjordan. It goes all the way down the Red Sea coast down to the border of Yemen. The Nejd was just that desert wasteland in the center of the peninsula. Um, and that's all it was was a wasteland until oil was discovered there. Now, it's the sort of the heart of the Saudi economy. But, um, start with those books. And uh, and then take a look at things like the

[06:52] Sykes-Picot Agreement, for example, and the creation of of Israel. Uh, there was a book From Beirut to Jerusalem that was quite popular in the 1980s. It's still out there. Take a look at that book as well. There's there's a lot um a lot that's going to be at your fingertips. Thanks for asking. The next one is from J. A. Maranto. Hi John, thanks for continuing to speak the truth and sharing your story. My wife and I eagerly look forward to your Q&As. Thank you for that. Here's our question. What happens to

[07:23] spies traded back to countries after they've been charged and sentenced in the United States? For example, in the matter of Chi Chao Chun, do you think he was punished or executed when he went back to China, or does the intelligence service there just recycle him? That's a tough one, and there's there's There's easy answer. When Francis Gary Powers, who was a U-2 pilot, was shot down over the Soviet Union in the 1950s, uh and he was finally traded for Soviet

[07:53] KGB prisoners here in the United States, he was treated as a traitor when he came back to the United States. Uh it kind of depends. I think there was I think the conventional wisdom was if you were a U-2 pilot, it was impossible to shoot you down. And if you did get shot down, shame on you, you should take it like a man, and just go down with the plane. And he didn't. He parachuted out. He was severely injured, uh and then he was captured. And he was held and traded

[08:24] um for for these KGB spies. In most cases, most cases, uh you go on to less sensitive positions. Because your cover's blown, the Russians are on to you, they've probably traded the information to the uh to the Chinese, to the Cubans, maybe to the Iranians, to the North Koreans. So everybody that you would want to hide your identity from knows exactly who you are. So you're going to end up with some

[08:56] some desk job someplace, or a domestic assignment, or maybe they'll send you to, you know, Western Europe or something. For the most part, your career is irreparably irreparably damaged, I hate to say. Um Bowe Bergdahl was uh a military guy in Afghanistan who just walked off base one day, and was immediately captured by the Haqqani network, who turned him over to the Taliban. He was held for years, finally repatriated to the United States

[09:27] in a prisoner trade. But he was not just treated as a traitor, he wasn't a traitor, but he was treated as such. Um, Donald Trump during the 2016 election campaign said that he should be executed. Um, he he was in the military for another year. He spent a little bit of time in the brig and um was finally released. He lives with his mom and dad in Idaho. But um yeah, good things don't happen to people who get caught.

[09:58] Well, I want to take a break uh for a second and tell you uh give you a message from one of our sponsors. Right now we're watching two major flashpoints unfold at the same time. The takedown of El Mencho in Mexico. Uh he's the the Jalisco uh uh drug kingpin. That's thrown Mexico into chaos and US-Iranian tensions are just escalating hour by hour. It's worse than anything we've seen in years, possibly decades. Here's what most people don't realize.

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[11:30] question is from Kavanagh RM. Cavana RM says, "John, with the US launching attacks on Iran, what are your opinions on the global impact? Saudi Arabia has reportedly said that they would help the United States in their efforts to change the regime, but we have a terrible track record in regime change wars. Second question, what do you think about Iranian sleeper cells being activated in the US? Were Iranian sleeper cells common when you were in the CIA? Is there anything the US can do to combat it? Thanks for all that you do. God bless you and your family. Thank you. I hope

[12:01] you get the president's pardon soon. You deserve it." I appreciate that. Good questions, very timely. Uh the global impacts I think we're seeing today. Uh at the at the opening bell this morning, the Dow Jones Industrial Averages dropped 1,100 points. The NASDAQ is off 2.3%. It's just a wipeout. And the S&P 500 is down 1.8%. Um gold surged and then dropped.

[12:32] Apparently, people are taking profits. But uh and uh and even Bitcoin surged because people are looking for someplace to put their money that doesn't have anything to do with stocks. The value of the dollar has dropped precipitously. It's down 15% in the past year. It's down another 3% today. So, this is going to be tough on us economically. The news that you've seen that Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia um

[13:02] said that they would help us in regime change operations is true. You know, it's funny. Over the last couple of years, Mohammed bin Salman uh uh Al Saud, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, actually worked very hard to improve Saudi relations with Iran. But as it turns out, it was Mohammed bin Salman and Benjamin Netanyahu who went to Donald Trump and asked him to invade Iran or to attack Iran. So, I'm not sure what kind of game MBS is

[13:32] is playing. It's a dangerous one. The goal is indeed regime change. Donald Trump told us to our faces a couple of nights ago the goal is regime change, but the United States is very very bad at regime change operations. I've long said it's easy to invade a country. It's easy to overthrow a government. It is very very difficult to get out. We were in Afghanistan for 20 years. We

[14:04] were in Iraq for 19 years. It's very difficult. You know, and this reminds me I've told this story before, but this reminds me very much of a principals committee meeting in which I was the note taker the night before we attacked Iraq in 2003. The meeting was chaired by Vice President Cheney. The president was busy, so Cheney chaired it. It included Condoleezza Rice who was the National Security Advisor, Colin Powell who was the Secretary of State. General

[14:35] um Hoar, I forget his first name, h o a r. Uh Was it Hoar or Tommy Franks? Maybe it was Tommy Franks who was the the head of Central Command. It was a couple of the top guys on the National Security Council and George Tenet the director of the CIA. I was George's note taker in the meeting. And as we were getting up to leave at the end of the meeting, one of these bozos from the NSC said kind of loudly, "When we cross that

[15:06] border tomorrow, they're going to throw flowers at us." And I went back to the office and the Deputy Director of the CIA said to me, "How was the meeting?" And first I said, "Did you know we were going to invade Iran?" And he said, "Are they still talking about that? We're not going to invade Iran." That's what they had said during the meeting, we're going to invade Iran. Now, here we are 24 years later and we're invading Iran. But, um I told him about the crack that the guy made that they're going to throw flowers at us. And I said, "Do these people know

[15:36] nothing about history?" And he said, "No, they know nothing about history." Well, again, it's 24 years later and the conventional wisdom has always been that we're going to be greeted as liberators and we're not. We're greeted as attackers and occupiers. And Iranians, for the most part, will fight to the death to save their country from us and from the Israelis. So, nothing good is going to come of this. Now, about sleeper cells,

[16:06] yes, the IRGC, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, and the MOIS, the Ministry of Intelligence and Security, have sleeper cells all over the world. I doubt that they have any in the United States or Canada or the UK. They absolutely have them in places like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Thailand, Indonesia, um um Argentina, even. Uh probably not here, but just as dangerous are these lone wolf attackers.

[16:38] Just a couple of nights ago, a mentally ill immigrant from Senegal who was wearing a a hoodie that said, "Property of Allah" and then underneath the hoodie had wrapped himself in the Iranian flag, just opened fire on a group of uh bar patrons in uh in Austin, Texas and and killed four people and wounded seven before he himself was shot and killed. So, we always need to worry about lone wolf attackers. If you're traveling overseas,

[17:10] you know, be aware of your surroundings, stay away from crowds, don't uh Uh, don't stay in American-owned hotel chains. That kind of thing. You'll thank yourself later. A N R 7 HD says, "Hey John, you're a legend." >> [laughter] >> Thank you. "Maybe help me monetize it somehow. I have questions about about agency involvement in Italy. Do you know anything about the Mattei death, the Moro kidnapping, and Gladio in general?"

[17:42] Um, and by the way, how are the Italian intelligence services? Thanks for everything you do. Uh, good questions, solid questions. Um, Mattei was not a an American operation. Moro was absolutely not an American operation. In fact, it was the Americans that worked with the with the Italians to try to find Aldo Moro's kidnappers and and killers. And they did, of course. It was the It was the Red Brigades. Um, the Red Brigades broke up later in the 1980s. Gladio in general, um,

[18:13] yeah, all of that happened. Um, and I'll ask I'll answer your last question right now before I get into the explanation. The Italian intelligence agencies are very, very good. And the CIA works very closely with them. W- except when they don't. And that's what I want to tell you about. So, back in I was still at the CIA, so it was like 2000 2 or 2003, um, there was an Egyptian

[18:43] Muslim um, Imam uh, by the name of Abu Omar. He was preaching in Milan, and we decided, "This guy's dangerous. He's preaching jihad. He's with Al-Qaeda. We're going to grab him." So, we went to the Italians and we said, "We want to grab this guy and we want to send him to one of our secret sites." And the Italians said, "Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let's investigate first, and then we can have a conversation." So, they investigated and they said, "Yeah, he's kind of a firebrand, but

[19:16] he's not in any way associated with uh with Al-Qaeda. He just doesn't like Americans. And yeah, he's a fundamentalist Muslim, but that doesn't violate any laws." So, they said, "No, no, you can't grab him. We're not going to work with you to grab him." So, what the US did was we just grabbed him anyway. Um we we went out to get him once and we didn't because we had a a van full of special operations guys. He would walk from his apartment to his mosque every day at the same time, which

[19:46] was a really stupid thing to do. And um we set out to grab him this one day, but there just so happened to be a woman walking her dog and she would have been a witness, so we just let him go. Did it again the next day and sure enough, like an idiot, he just walked straight from his apartment to his mosque. Our guys burst out of the side door of the van. They grab him. They take him to an American airbase, you know, in a in a box and uh put him on a plane and send him to a secret

[20:17] prison. No, we didn't send him to a secret prison. We sent him to Egypt. The Egyptians tortured him mercilessly. And they came back to us and they said, "This guy doesn't know anything. He's just the wrong guy. Yeah, he's an Imam. He's a fundamentalist, but he's not Al-Qaeda and he doesn't have any information at all on on uh terrorism." And they released him. And he went back to Italy. And the Italians are like,

[20:47] "What the did you guys do? Did we not say, leave this guy alone?" And so, what the Italians did, and this was really ballsy. I have real respect for them. They began investigating the CIA. And they were able to identify 21 undercover CIA officers, and not just undercover, but undercover and operating in alias. So, if I go out there and my name is Joe

[21:17] Blow, how are they going to know that my real name is John Kirikou? I'll tell you how. Because my CIA colleagues were morons. They're in alias, and what do they do? They call their wives at home from the hotel telephone. How about that? How stupid could that possibly Or another one of them went out to buy souvenirs and used his credit card in his true name. In his true name. He's in alias. He has alias credit cards on him. You're not

[21:49] supposed to have your true name credit cards on you. And so, every one of the 21 were identified. Two were actually arrested. The the base chief in Milan and a woman who had She was a CIA officer, but she had dual nationality with Portugal, and she just decided to stay in Italy and hang out. They both got arrested. Um one the the the base chief was expelled. Um he was not welcomed home as a hero, cuz he was an idiot, and he ended up

[22:19] taking an early retirement from the CIA, and he went to Panama and retired there. The woman uh did a good 6 months, I think is what it was, in an Italian jail. They finally released her. She resigned from the CIA and moved to Portugal. So, you know, sometimes people just do stupid things. The Italians were really good, though. D6Dev says, "While you're operating as your cover and a valuable asset to tells

[22:51] you to partake in the consumption of drugs, are you permitted to do so as to establish that you are not the police? Thank you, and I hope you receive your pardon." Thank you. Great question. The answer is yes. You may partake of the drugs. This all started way back in the day in Yemen. In Yemen, the national drug of choice is called qat, Q A T, qat. Sometimes you see it K H A T, like khat, it's not, it's with a Q, qat, back here, qaf.

[23:23] So, it's not really a drug, even though it's banned in the United States and it's on the list of uh drugs. It's a it's a shrub and you pick the leaves off the shrub. You have to chew them while they're green. Once they start to turn brown, they're no good anymore. But, it's like drinking two pots of coffee. It makes your your heart race like this. Um it also curbs hunger like like coca leaves uh do. But, you know, you you walk around Yemen and you'll see old men and one side of their

[23:55] face is hanging down because of a lifetime of a bulging cheekful of qat. Well, if you want to develop a source there, you got to get close to the guy and literally every man in the country chews qat in the afternoon at 3:00. It's like the Italians having an espresso to, you know, finish out the day. And so, the CIA had to give special dispensation to every officer working in Yemen or in other qat-chewing countries

[24:25] like Somalia, Djibouti, Ethiopia, Eritrea, you you've got to do it to fit in. Now, if you're deep undercover in Colombia or Mexico or Peru or Ecuador and you need to snort a line, they're going to let you snort a line. It could be a matter of life and death. So, you're going to snort the line. Nobody's ever asked me that question before. Good question. Drew, uh D R O O says, "Hey, John,

[24:57] considering your history with the CIA, do you believe the US has the most moral intelligence agency or would there be another country that you think acts in a more moral way?" Most other countries are more moral than the CIA. I know I do not believe that the CIA is one of the most moral or one of the more moral or moral in any way. Not when you just wantonly fly around the world and murder people whose politics you don't don't like, but who pose no threat to the United States. Seriously though, most most intelligence

[25:29] services act in ways that are more moral than the United States. You know, the the Five Eyes aside because the US, the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, we do a lot of things together. But look at like, you know, Belgium, the Netherlands, Greece, Italy, uh the Nordic countries, you know, the Bahamas, uh I mean, you can come up with a hundred countries whose

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[33:18] Things really do get better. They really do. Take it from me. They really do get better. So, very best of luck. I'm I'm pulling for you. And thank you for your service. Blinding Cobra says, "Serious question. Top five best meals you've had abroad?" >> [laughter] >> Oh my god. You know, I really should read the questions beforehand. Um I would have been better prepared. I can tell you the best the best meal I ever had abroad.

[33:49] I was staying in a guest house in Islamabad, Pakistan, that the CIA will not allow me to name. It only had It only had like 16 rooms, and CIA officers, we took all 16 rooms. But that guest house came with breakfast and dinner and laundry. And it was like 35 bucks a day. It was incredible. And then they give you like 500 a day per diem, so you just pocket the rest. I bought a house when I came home. Anyway.

[34:21] This kid I I know I almost said his name. There's this kid, Pakistani kid, who was working there, and he was the cook. And he would spend half the day shaving beef really thin and mixing it with this myriad of spices and then hot green chili peppers over rice that he cooked with chicken stock. Oh my god, my mouth is watering just

[34:51] thinking about it. As simple as that was that was the best meal I ever had overseas. I'll tell you my other meals the freshest sushi I ever had in my life was in was in Tokyo where you walk up to this ice tray and pick the fish that you want and it's still flapping around and the octopus is like trying to crawl off the ice. I'm like that octopus puss is going to be right here in 10 minutes.

[35:23] Um that's number two. But three, four and five have to be in Greece on what is called Kathara Deftera clean Monday it's the first day of Lent for Orthodox Christians and so traditionally you cook all the Lenten foods. And so there's no meat, there's nothing with a spine or nothing that bleeds. You can't eat during Lent. So I mean you become very creative. You can

[35:55] make lentils a hundred different ways with a hundred different flavors. Uh and you can use you know mushroom stock or vegetable stock. It's incredible. And then crazy as it sounds one of the best meals I ever had I made myself in prison. There was an Iraqi Kurd in prison with me. He was an Imam of a mosque in upstate New York and this guy was innocent innocent innocent. They set him

[36:26] up on a terrorism charge, and then when he finally finished prison, they expelled him back to Iraq. It was awful. But anyway, he was just kind of wandering around the yard one day, and I said, "Khaled, I said, what are you doing?" Just wan- winding around, you know, the the grass. He said, "I'm I'm looking for uh for um dandelions." And I said, "For what reason?" And he said, "To eat them." And I was like, "What a great idea!

[36:56] We make dandelion salad in Greece. We make dandelion jam, all different kinds of things." I said, "Do you mind if I go on the far end of the yard and I pick some dandelions, too?" He said, "No, be my guest." You got to wash it cuz people are like spitting all the time or animals are peeing or pooping or whatever. So, I picked an entire bag full of dandelions. And then I went to the commissary and bought a bottle a bottle of olive oil and some sea salt. And then I I had some instant rice with

[37:29] a chicken bouillon cube. And I threw in some peanuts to give it a little bit of crunch and some Sazón uh spice that the one of the Mexicans gave me. Uh I had a bag of chicken. They sold bags of chicken there, not cans cuz you could make a make a shank out of the can and, you know, slash somebody with it. So, bags of chicken. I put it all together, and then I had my dandelion salad. It was the single most satisfying meal I ever had in 23 months

[37:59] in prison. Sad, but true. Well, listen, I want to thank you so much for listening to this Q&A. Please keep those uh those questions coming. And like I said last time, too, I apologize in that this has become so popular, we can't possibly get to every question. We're going to try hard to get to as many as we can and we're certainly taking a taking a sampling of of different kinds of questions. So, please keep them coming. You've been watching

[38:29] Deep Focus Q&A. I'm John Kiriakou. We'll see you next time.
