Title: John Kiriakou on Iran, Endless Wars and U.S. Foreign Policy
Show: The Deep Focus Show
Date: 2026-06-27
URL: https://youtu.be/uRmZX8Psw8A
Duration: 19:00

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[00:00] CIA director's notetaker in the final principles committee meeting the night before we attacked Iraq. So it's chaired by the vice president. We've got secretary of state Colin Powell, National Security Adviser uh Cona Rice, Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld, the chairman and vice chairman of the joint chiefs, a whole bunch of big mucky mucks. And uh General Tommy Franks gave the order of battle briefing. That's how he started off the the meeting. I'm sitting directly behind George Tennant, the CIA director. And General Franks finishes his briefing by saying his

[00:32] exact words, "If all goes as planned, we can be in Tehran by August." And George turns off his microphone and he leans back and he says to me, "Did he say Thran or did he say Baghdad?" And I said, "He said Thran." >> Yeah. At the end of it, as we were getting up to leave the meeting, one of the guys from the one of the senior senior directors at the National Security Council says, "As soon as we cross that border tomorrow, they're going to throw flowers at us." And I went back to the I was working for the deputy director at the

[01:03] time and he said, "How was the principal committee meeting?" And I said, "Did you know we were going to invade Iran?" And he said, "Are they still talking about that? We're not going to invade Iran." And I said, "Do these people know nothing about history?" And he said, 'N no, they know nothing about history. Here we are now 23 years later and the president of the United States was convinced easily by all reports that as soon as the first missile were to fly, the Iranian government would collapse

[01:34] like a house of cards. And anybody with any brains at all knew that was ridiculous. And that was a Netanyahu talking point going back to the 1990s. So now here we are almost out of missiles, unable to protect two aircraft carrier strike forces and no end in sight to this conflict. >> But hey, week one, we won already. >> Yeah, we won. We won like four times already. >> Don't forget we already won. >> Somebody asked me the other day, "How do you think this ends?" I said, "It ends when we wake up one morning and we look at Truth Social and the president said

[02:04] in the middle of the night, it's all over. We won. I'm bringing everybody home. We win. big parade on Constitution Avenue and sure enough the next day that's what he said for like the fourth time. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, we won. It's over. >> Doesn't say that at the gas pump, you know. >> No, it [clears throat] does not. >> And um yeah, the straits still closed. I you know, I just don't know how long people can be lied to before they open their eyes. I mean, they're going to feel it. They are feeling it, you know, and uh it's pretty obvious. And we, you know, I think he got dog walked into that war. I don't think that he wanted

[02:34] to go to war. >> I don't think he did. I don't think he had a choice which is the scary part. Like I don't think we have full sovereignty. And so that to me is the part that I think we really need to look into. It's like why are we actually in this war? Because they even said so the only reason we attacked is because Israel is going to attack so we had to like what is that? That is not a relationship of a country that we are providing a ton of aid to. Like we should have a say in what they do. >> And it seems like it's the other way around. I'm just looking at this like a completely one-sided relationship. I feel like >> we're like a battered wife. It's like what are we doing? You know, like they keep they keep screwing us over. They

[03:05] sell our secrets. They steal our uranium. Like, how many times can this country screw us over? And you were in the CIA. Like, I mean, what was your experience with the I mean, because I know it wasn't good. I've seen a little bit, but you know, I want to hear it from the horse's mouth here. >> Yeah. It was not good at all. Not only do we did we not like working with the Israel Mossad. Uh we we didn't permit them in the building. >> Yeah. >> It was the like literally the very first thing that I learned when I got to the agency. We do not brief Mossad in the building. They're not welcome here

[03:36] because >> stealing bugging, right? >> They would always come with gifts, right? They come with a big seal of the CIA. First of all, they're everywhere. We don't need any more seals of the CIA, at least of one, at least of all one coming from the Israeli embassy. And it weighs three times what it should weigh cuz it's packed with batteries and listening devices. And we're like, "Guys, you you you got to stop doing this." And then they laugh. Oh, all in good fun. No, it's not. You're trying to bug the conference room again. So we have to you know rent office space and

[04:07] um and we just meet with him in the office. I I tell this story too. The first liaison briefing I ever gave I was only six weeks on the job was to Mossad and Shinbet and so because I was the youngest newest analyst. I went last. So the chief analyst starts first. Then the political guy, the military guy, the oil guy, this guy, that guy comes to me. And because I was overt at the time, I was not undercover. I used my true name. I said, "I'm John Kuryako. I'm here to brief you on, you know, X, Y, and Z."

[04:37] And the guy, the Mossad guy, has his glasses like this. And he he says, "Spell your name." So I spell my name and he goes, [clears throat] "You are Jewish." [laughter] And I said, "I am not recruitable. Don't even think about it. I am not recruitable." I go back to the office. My boss said, "How was it?" I said, "Man, I am so mad right now. This guy practically cold pitched me right there in the office in front of everybody." and he laughs and he says, "They've done that to every one of us. Every one of us in our first briefings with them. It's like they can't help

[05:08] themselves." And I've told the story many, many times that I had a colleague who went to Israel and and was an overt employee. So he the the chief took him to Mossad and said, "This is my guy. He's a CIA officer. His wife is going to work with you guys. He's going to go to the university and learn how to speak Arabic." Okay? So no problems, no threats, no nothing. The first time they went to dinner at the ambassador's house, they came back after the dinner and all their living room furniture had been rearranged just as a just as a message that we can do

[05:41] anything we want and there's nothing you can do about it. So months later, they go to another uh dinner at the ambassador's residence. They come back to the house and people had it's a family show. People had defecated in all of the toilets in their house and just left it unflushed. >> Wow. And then another year passes. They're getting ready to leave to come back to the States and the ambassador has a going away party for them. They get back to the house. Someone had gone in the house, cut the dog's tail off,

[06:12] and then wrapped it in medical gauze and tape and the dog is whimpering under the dining room table. And these are our best friends in the world, right? >> That's crazy. >> This is how they treat us. >> And every time it happens, we have to go to the Mossad and say, "Stop harassing our people." And then they say, "Okay, okay." And they back off for a year, maybe two, and then the whole thing starts again. >> Yeah, that's insane. I mean, how were you treated with other foreign countries? Like even ones that we weren't allies with? I feel like it

[06:43] would be better than >> completely professionally. No problems at all. I literally never did I have a problem with the foreign intelligence service ever, except the Israelis just cold pitching me right there in front of all my colleagues. >> Yeah. I think that level of arrogance should tell you a lot. >> Mhm. >> You know, >> and they know they know that there's no downside to it. They're not going to be punished in any way. >> Yeah. >> Not in any way. Nobody liked working with them. You just couldn't trust them. >> What do people say when you tell that story? Because that's that's pretty compelling. >> Well, it's funny. The people I know are

[07:15] interested and they say, "Oh my god, that's terrible. It's a shame. It's good that you're telling the story." People I don't know call me an anti-semite, threaten me with death, call me a Jew hater. I got day before yesterday. I'm a Jew hater apparently. >> Yeah. >> Well, that's actually so on TMZ >> he was gonna switch over to Jew hater because I had issue with the term anti-semite because I'm like, well, you know, >> well, the Arabs are semi. >> That's what [laughter] I'm saying. Yeah, exactly. So, like Israel and you know, and the Jews over, they're actually the most anti-semitic people, you know, on the planet because they're killing all the semmites, right? So, I had issue with the term and I think the term has

[07:46] been weaponized. So, 100% >> I didn't want to be called that. And so, the other uh host was like, "Okay, we'll just say Jew hater." and the main host who was Jewish like no no no no no we're not we're not losing this term and it was like this you you saw this like battle in real time and it's weird because you know the word anti-semite is kind of been hijacked to mean Jew hater so really like that's to me when I think of anti-semite I think of Jew hater because that's what they've turned the word into >> and the fact that he wouldn't accept that which would be a more descriptive thing I mean that's you know basically what he wanted to call me which isn't

[08:17] accurate because I you know I I don't hate all Jews I don't think that every Jew is responsible for all this And in fact, I'm, you know, I have Jews that are friends. And so, you know, it's like I mean, Bobby Fischer, he was like 100% Jewish and he said the Jews are like trying to ruin the world, you know, and you got guys like Max Blumenth all that are calling this out. So, it's like, you know, it's not a complete monolith. Um, I acknowledge that, but they it's weird because they want to act like it's a monolith. Yeah. You know, they want to treat it like, you know, every Jew is a part of the tribe and is protected and if you say one thing about this Jew, you're saying about all Jews and if you

[08:47] say something about Israel, you're saying it about all Jews. So they're actually the ones that are pushing this narrative of a monolith. It's not us. It's like it's them because you know the fact that they would coin that you know any criticism of Israel as anti-semitic literally says that they are saying that if you criticize this country you're criticizing all Jews. So it's weird. It's once again this hypocrisy of like they can say these things but if you say it you're an anti-semite. >> I went on the Pierce Morgan show the other day. I I've been something of a regular on that show and I I appeared with General Danny Ayalon uh the former

[09:18] head of the MSAD and uh Alan Dersuit who hates me and gem >> and Scott Horton who's one of the great thinkers of our time I believe a great libertarian thinker and um >> it's just part of my personality that I I don't interrupt people. I was always taught that that was just a rude thing to do. I I generally don't interrupt and that show is all about interrupting. So, I just kind of sit there and let the rest of them go at it. And finally, Pierce says to me, "Well, let me ask John a couple of questions. John, do you think that Hamas is a terrorist group?"

[09:49] And I said, "Well, I think that it it is essentially a a freedom fighting group, but as it pertains to attacking civilians on October 7th, yes, if the point was to attack civilians, that's an act of terrorism. That's the definition of terrorism." Um, and he says, "Do you believe that u that it was a terrorist attack?" attack. I said, "In part, it was a terrorist attack because it specifically targeted a music festival with a purpose of of killing or injuring civilians for a political purpose." So, yeah, that's the definition of of a

[10:19] terrorist attack. He said, "Then what's your problem with Israel?" And I said, "Pice, you cannot have as a policy to just kill everybody. That's not a policy. That's called genocide. There's a word for that. You cannot kill everybody." >> Yeah. Well, especially when they allowed that to happen and they funded Hamas and you know we can go into all that >> and there were indic they funded Hamas number one and that's a proven fact that was a policy decision taken by Benjamin Netanyahu but number two there were the

[10:50] there were weeks full of intelligence indicating that an attack was coming >> and Idomar Bengavir who's supposed to be the big mastermind of you know security in Israel and who's really just a war criminal um said no >> the worst by the way the worst He's worse than Netanyahu. >> He's worse. But he insisted that the attack was coming in the West Bank. And I believe that the man is not that stupid. He knew it was coming in Gaza. And they were looking for something that would allow them to just kill everybody >> 100%. And you know, it's shown in their

[11:23] response time, six hours to respond to that. And then when they do respond, they kill their own citizens, you know, pump up the numbers. So, I'm I'm glad that you didn't cave to that because I think that what they try and do is establish a framework of like, okay, Hamas are terrorists, that makes them the bad guys, so then Israel's the good guys, right? And they want to just make this very black and white. I'm glad that you didn't fall into that trap because it's an easy one to fall into is just saying, oh yes, I I accept that Hamas is really bad. And it's like, uh, look, maybe they did some bad things. I'm sure they did. I I you know I saw some things that they did which were were bad, but like if you really kind of look at it

[11:55] objectively, I think it was over 400 Palestinian civilians were killed in Gaza earlier that year, right? And then if you look at the actual numbers of how many civilians were killed during October 7th, it's like under 400 because you can't count people that are in the IDF or reserve IDF people. No. >> Um and then you also obviously can't count the people that Israel killed with their hellfire missiles, shelling kabotas with the tanks. So when you really dig into it, it's like, was it actually that bad? Was it a response to what had already happened? Because if they killed less civilians than had been

[12:27] killed on their side, then is it a response? Is it a terrorist attack? I mean, obviously it's bad to kill civilians. No two ways about that. But that didn't stop Israel from killing, you know, how many civilians, right? Like we don't even have a count. Some some counts are up to 400,000. Like I mean, the whole place is rubble. They bombed every single working hospital. They've bombed 90% of the schools. They bombed all the churches. It's like, you know, Hamas was there. Hamas was there. I was like, "How many times you got to hear that?" And I don't even care if a moss is there. That doesn't give you the right to, you know, blow up all the children's schools. It doesn't give you the right to blow up every single working hospital in the area. It's like,

[12:58] you know, the example I would give is like, okay, you know, if if your daughter, your son, they were in school and there's a school shooter, you know, unequivocally, hey, he's a bad guy. So, what if they just blow up the whole [ __ ] school? You know, they got the they got the shooter. Like, is that an acceptable, you know, answer for you? Your daughter's dead. You know, what like what are we talking about here? So, um I just don't their whole narrative is just all nonsense when you actually dig into it, right? Because there's no beheaded babies. There's no babies. It's just all nonsense. And so, yeah, they try and frame it like that. That's what I see is like a a a kind of like a

[13:30] strangle hold on history. Um and what they do is they try and create this narrative that justifies their actions. >> Um by accusing other people of things that they are either doing or have done after the fact. Dan, um, one of the things that I think most observers of foreign policy recognize, have recognized over the years is that Israel thrives on regional chaos, right? Israel is safer when Iraq is in chaos. Israel is safer when Syria's in chaos or

[14:02] Libya's in chaos or now Iran is in chaos. What's the endgame there? You can't have chaos all the time in perpetuity. Well, I mean, if you accept their Greater Israel project and that's what they want to do, it's hard to steal land without distractions. Um, it allows justifications. Um, also turmoil in the region distracts from what they're doing to the Palestinians. Um, so, you know, and also they don't want peace. This idea that like, oh, you know, just let

[14:32] us let the Jews have this piece of land and, you know, everybody's attacking. It's just nonsense. Like, they're constantly the aggressors. And so I look at this and I'm just like I don't know of any other country other than us that has bombed seven different countries in a year, you know, other than Israel. So it's like >> I don't know. I I just I don't think that they've ever wanted peace. Um they're a terrorist nation and they you know said this numerous times founded by terrorists. Um and so yeah, I just I think that as long as we are supporting them and um allowing them to commit all these terrorist acts, I mean they're

[15:03] going to continue to be arrogant [ __ ] they're going to be, you know, everybody acts like, oh, well, it's the only democracy in the region region. And I'm like, they are the only terrorists in the region. They're causing all these problems. And Americans just aren't they're just not familiar with it. And so, it's been framed to them that, you know, uh, Muslims are bad. You know, Israel's good. >> You know, that's another thing I don't understand, too. You're right about that. Americans are led to believe that just as a blanket statement, Muslims are bad. I spent much of my adult life in the Middle East and um you know our

[15:35] relations our foreign relations with almost all of the Middle Eastern countries are very very tight very close and good. You know we have a so-called special relationship with the Saudis. Whether that's true or not that's what it's called. Our relations with Kuwait are very strong. Bahrain is the headquarters of the fifth fleet. Gutter hosts the largest air force American air force base in the world. The UAE, I would argue that our relationship with the UAE is closer than with than it is with any of those other countries. The

[16:06] Omanis, we've turned to the Omanis for decades to be to be the middleman in our relations with, you know, the Iranians and with others. Um, we're we're joined at the hip with the Egyptians, uh, with the Moroccans, with the Tunisians. We have great relations. So, how is it that somehow the Muslims always seem to be the bad guys, especially in American foreign policy? I just >> You want the honest answer? I mean, it's Jewish propaganda that [laughter] is. I mean, it comes from Hollywood. It's because every time, you know, growing up, you see uh terrorists, they're

[16:37] always Muslim. They always have, you know, a KFA or, you know, whatever. And it's programming, man. Like, I was in the military. I did, you know, three months of boot camp. And in that three months, I changed dramatically. So, what does 30 years of programming do to you? Um, I always thought Muslims were a problem. I really did. Like growing up I was like, you know, especially when I was in the military, I'm like, "Oh, these Hajis, you know, blah blah blah." They have all these names for them. Yeah. >> Some of which I can't say on air, you know, but they're bad and it dehumanizes them, right? And so when you when guys come back from war, you know, guys that I went through, you know, training with, whatever, come back and, you know, talk

[17:09] brag about, you know, these Muslims they killed. It's kind of like a badge of honor and it's a way to justify the things that they did. I really believe that a lot of the PTSD comes from coming back and realizing like >> maybe these weren't the bad guys, you know, and and and Rob O'Neal talked about that actually. I heard him on one podcast where he kicked in the door some guy's house, bedroom, whatever, and guy went for a gun and he shot him and he was thinking about that. He's like, "Hey, what if, you know, what if that had been me? You know, what would I have done? I would have grabbed my gun and, you know, he would have shot me. And what if I had something in common with that guy? And what if we would have, you

[17:40] know, had a laugh over coffee and whatever?" And it's like, would he have grabbed that gun if I didn't kick the door into his bedroom? And why did I kick the door in his, you know what I mean? Like, you start asking yourself these questions. I mean, Muslims have always treated me with respect. And I'm sure there's bad ones, you know, and everybody wants to look at like, oh, but the Muslim rape gangs in the UK and Europe and everything else. And that's once again, it's kind of pushing this narrative. And it's like, yes, Muslims are for sure causing problems over there, but no different than the Mexicans coming across the border and they're mostly Christian, you know, and the uh and the Ethiopians coming from Ethiopia, you know, they're mostly I mean, Africa is mostly Christian, right?

[18:11] And it's not because they believe in Jesus or they're, you know, came over with their Bible, they're causing problems. No, it's because they're poor and they're coming from a country that, you know, doesn't have strong culture. They have no affinity to the new, you know, um, country or state or wherever they're going into. Um, and so that to me is the source of the problem. It's not because they read the Quran. You know, I I've read parts of the Quran and I mean, I've talked to a lot of Muslims and rape is against, you know, their religion in any way, shape, or form. So, u, the only religion I've actually seen where rape is excused is in Judaism in the Talmud. Thank you for watching. This

[18:41] is the deep state and remember to always always ask the questions that the government wants you to forget. This conversation was a perfect example of that. I'm John Kuryaku. We'll see you next time.
