Title: Rhymes & Reasons (2018-10-09)
Show: Edward Rhymes
Date: 2018-10-13
URL: https://youtu.be/bb7H9yCfNfg
Duration: 30:00

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[06:44] flag is it some sort of you know misdirection here at UT what would you as a you know as a trained CIA officer say this was about or as a Tracy I officer I know you know maybe you know a little bit of some about this answers are yes and yes no do tell I think I think the core of this is is entirely

[07:16] political mm-hmm we need to have a boogie man we need to have a common enemy around whom we can rally or against whom we can rally right and you know the the the Russians are so easy as are the Chinese the North Koreans the Cubans the Iranians mm-hmm but the Russians you know people understand Americans understand the Russians we've been we've been the enemies of the Russians for a very long time and so they're easy to they're easy

[07:49] to bully mm-hmm and they're easy to to blame for our problems you know I've been so intrigued by this whole Russia gate thing and it's because I'm just not seeing it right no I after I left the CIA I was the I was the senior investigator on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and that's the the premier prestige Committee on Capitol Hill running so in order to be a serious

[08:19] investigator in order to really be taken seriously by the Congress and by the media you have to do serious investigations and so I was always looking for the facts right sure I had my own political views but have to you have to just go where the facts lead you hmm so not to take too much of your time but let's look at this so long take as much time as you want go ahead we'll start with Mike Flynn in December of 2016 after Donald Trump was elected

[08:50] president Benjamin Netanyahu asked his UN Ambassador to ask Mike Flynn to ask the Russians if you can follow this mm-hmm itto Barack Obama's Security Council resolution opposing Israeli settlements okay so Flynn went to the Russians and asked them if they would veto the Russians said no that was the end of it now Flynn lied about that to the FBI and

[09:21] he's had to take a felony plea because of it mm-hmm but that wasn't Russian interference that was Israeli interference mm-hmm but we're not talking about Israeli interference mm-hmm AIPAC the american israel political action committee is probably the single most important single wealthiest and most active lobbying firm in america hmm it works solely on behalf of the government of israel yet it is not registered as a representative of a

[09:52] foreign government mm-hmm why is that that's Israeli meddling in American elections mm-hmm now if you look at what the Russians have been accused of they were accused of spending a hundred thousand dollars on Facebook ads thousand dollars of that money was spent after the election was over right half of the half or 25,000 was spent in states that were solidly red or solidly blue so they had no effect on the

[10:23] election that leaves $25,000 to sway the u.s. election $25,000 when I was at the CIA 50,000 was my petty cash that I kept in my safe for spending money so if if people think that the Russians could throw the election for $25,000 that Americans are so stupid and so gullible as to be influenced by $25,000 worth of Facebook ads you know then we're in a sorrier shape than most of us

[10:54] have have previously thought so you know I'm just not seeing evidence of real Russian intervention in our elections now do countries seek to involve themselves in elections absolutely yes you have questions probably easily the Americans and the Chinese and the British and the French and the Israelis and everybody else that's what countries do that is what it de Ghent services do but if you're going to make an accusation against the world superpower an accusation of an international crime

[11:26] you have to put up and if you can't put up then you have to shut up all right so far no one has given us any evidence real evidence of Russian hacking or Russian collusion very good now I'm going to ask you to - to see if you know I'm on the right track yet I I looked at this when it happened I looked at it for three reasons as to why this happened I'll start with the to me the left of

[11:57] the the least consequential ones first a Hillary Clinton had to be able to justify to her donors who gave an exorbitant amount of money to her in order to win this election election in 2016 that someone had to be the fall guy for this loss this big loss that came in 2016 this historic loss in 2016 that's

[12:29] the first thing I saw when I looked at this that this is why somehow you know Russia becomes the bad guy the second thing I looked at was and like I said you you tell me if I'm if you think I'm on the wrong track you're not the second thing I looked at was well Russia has been a staunch supporter of the Assad government in Syria going directly against the US government and so wouldn't it indeed be able you be able to justify whatever

[13:01] military action you take against Russia or whatever you try to do to against Russia in that regard that since you've vilified them as being the one that stole your election then it's much easier much easier to justify your actions against them going for it when it comes to Syria and thirdly but my last reason was was that to me because Obama and the Democratic Party started this line when he came to Russia gay was that this was the big payback for

[13:32] Russia taken in that which know you know these were the things that came to the mountain and most does it sound like I'm on the wrong track here with I think you're exactly on the right track and it's more than that I'll add two things go right it was also for US involvement in Ukraine where we helped to depose a government that sought rapprochement with Russia and replaced it with a pro-western Pro u.s. Pro NATO right-wing government the Russians earth the old

[14:03] Nazi government precisely correct you know the Russians are panicked at the notion of of NATO being right they're literally on on their border and the other thing is the u.s. is really upset about Russian activism in the Middle East when I was still at the CIA US policy was and this was carried out mostly by the State Department that US policy was that we never work with the Russians in the Middle East because the goal was to keep the Russians out of the Middle East we

[14:34] didn't want there to be two superpowers in the Middle East we wanted to be the ones that called the shots and you know I remember when when the Middle East peace process was taking off I was serving in Bahrain which is a little a little country an island nation in the Persian Gulf right and and the the Middle East peace process of course was multilateral and it included the Russians well the barrios were hosting the Middle East peace process talks on the environment and they had set up an Environmental

[15:05] Center there that included Israeli diplomats so my instructions were to go to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and formally invite them to the to the meeting well because the talks were multilateral I was supposed to go with my Russian counterpart and my orders came from the State Department to not call the Russian embassy and just to do it alone and so I did and then of course I got an angry call from the Russians saying hey why did you do this this is supposed to be multilateral we're all

[15:35] supposed to be a part of this peace process and what am I supposed to say I'm sorry we were joking or I'm sorry we say one thing and then we do another right but the bottom line was that the policy was to keep the Russians out and that policy is consistent to this day across the board Democratic and Republican presidents work this is a national policy not a partisan exactly now you mention NATO so this sex great sex ways into a question that it's been

[16:08] heavy on my mind what is your knowledge saying that Facebook and Twitter now says this anti prop law was attached to the National Defense Authorization Act back in 2016 Christmas Eve by the way Merry Christmas of 2016 what is your view and what is your understanding for those of us who may not be here to the

[16:41] Atlantic Council what is your understanding of their purpose their role there their agenda oh boy that is such an important question and it's this is something that almost no Americans know or understand the Atlantic Council and it's not just the Atlantic Council it's the Council on Foreign Relations the Hudson Institute the American Enterprise Institute the the Center for Progress the Center for democracy I mean

[17:13] there are so many so-called think tanks here in the Washington area that take their funding from the State Department the Defense Department defense contractors the CIA is so there they're biased and what they end up doing is reinforcing one another I'll give you an example I'm I guess technically a journalist and so I'm registered as a journalist run State Department and I received the State Department's morning briefing email

[17:46] every day and what they do at the State Department's Office of Public Affairs or Bureau of Public Affairs is they will they will refer you to a number sometimes as many as a half a dozen different think tanks hmm to see what's going on that day so they'll say things like well we're looking at the Middle East peace process and the Middle East Institute has a lunch at 12 o'clock and they're going to talk about Syria and you should go to that or the Hudson

[18:17] Institute is going to be talking about the Chinese naval operations in the South China Sea at 2 o'clock you should go to that so what they do is they they fund these organizations like the Atlantic Council and it should add to that NATO also funds the Atlantic Council right so what they do is they fund these organizations and then they refer you back to these organizations where they can pare it back their policy

[18:49] to you and make it look like it's it's independent mm-hmm yeah that it's not just you getting their position from two different sides that that here's an independent think-tank and they're telling you that our policy is right well King that think-tank to pare it back the policy so the whole system is corrupt the whole system is dishonest what what if anything any difference is I

[19:22] mean D whether it be minor whether you be major what differences have you seen in the past you know since Trump was inaugurated what differences do you see and how the intelligence agencies run is there any difference at all well it depends Nam in terms of differences at the top hmm yeah of the major intelligence organizations no because you've got Mike Pompeo who's a Donald

[19:54] Trump loyalist riding this guy a you have Dan Coates who's a lifelong Republican Party functionary has Director of National Intelligence I said Pompey was at the CIA he's a men at State Department okay Gena Haspel who is a career CIA professional who owes her career to Donald Trump net CIA so at those top most positions no I don't think that there's really any difference between this administration and the last

[20:25] one or even the one before that mm-hmm that said at the working level yes I think there's a big difference I think that the deep state is real there really is such a thing as the deep state right I think it seeks to destabilize this president but at the same time you know these guys at the CIA in the senior intelligence service they've been there for 25 30 35 years they're not going anywhere right they're not political appointees their career

[20:56] run and so they can outweigh this president right if they like this president like they didn't like Bill Clinton and they didn't like Jimmy Carter they know that he's gonna go right with two years from now or six years from now he's gonna go and they're still gonna be there and so what they do is they slow roll everything and what I mean by that is maybe they don't target that really risky source maybe they don't begin that really risky operation and maybe they don't work hard to

[21:27] provide the finest analysis maybe they just go through the motions and just wait until this president is gone and the making of a the president that they like and that likes them and let me add something else too about Barack Obama okay he used to ask me this question all the time like why was Obama as staunchly Pro CIA as he was I mean Obama gave the CIA literally anything and everything that it asked for drones and webbing special

[21:58] operations and you name it by god the CIA was allowed to do it mm-hmm the reason is because the CIA loves new presidents that have no intelligence experience right and it's because the day after the election the president-elect is entitled to a PDB briefing President Lee briefed run and that's when you get the most highly classified information available so when

[22:29] you see your first blue border report or black border report where you're six levels above top secret and the briefer says mr. president-elect let me tell you about all the cool things we're doing around the world well they've sucked you right in we've routed you right that's exactly what they seek to do they seek to make you one of the guys and once you're one of the guys you're gonna let them have and do anything they want but they never expected Donald Trump to get elected

[23:00] mm-hmm and then they never expected to get caught spying on the Trump campaign we've had admissions I mean there's sort of backhanded admissions but admissions by the FBI that that's exactly what they were doing hmm you know FISA warrants on Carter page in the name but they put a source inside the campaign to report back to the FBI and that's just unheard of it's unprecedented and remind us John what President were you prosecuted under you know that's a

[23:33] yeah that's a great question it was Barack Obama that prosecuted me and not just me but seven other national security whistleblowers you know II D the the Espionage Act was written in 1917 hmm fix that German spies during the the First World War mm-hmm this law is so old that it doesn't even mention the term classified information because it's written 40 years before the classification system was even invented right it mentions

[24:06] National Defense Information but it doesn't define it it says that a person is guilty of espionage if he provides national defense information to any person not entitled to receive it that is so broadly written that I believe it to be unconstitutional mm-hmm that's really nobody has had standing to challenge it to the Supreme Court and certainly Congress doesn't have the guts to do anything because you're not the wind votes by challenging the Espionage

[24:38] Act of all things and so you know it was inevitable that we were going to get a president at some point I regret and lament the fact that it was Barack Obama who was going to use the Espionage Act as a political weapon mm-hmm you're doing 1917 in 2009 three Americans were charged with espionage for cooperating with the media mm-hmm just during the Obama administration eight of us almost

[25:08] three times the number of all previous presidents combined eight of us were prosecuted by the Obama administration the constitutional lawyer yeah the constitutional lawyer yes a champion the champion of the left you know I Eve din the whole Hope and Change thing I really did I volunteered on the campaign I voted for Obama mmm I I took my kids to the inauguration to see this you know historic event and it all turned out to be just a big lie yeah it's a book that was written by

[25:40] Mark Halperin and John Holliman yeah call called double down about the 2012 election it was a it was a sequel to their book on the 2008 election and President Obama agreed to sit for an interview for DoubleDown and he said two things that were just chilling mm-hmm he said very matter-of-factly I never said I was a liberal exactly yeah no and when you think about it that's true we believed he was a liberal but he never said he was he wasn't mm-hmm the

[26:11] other thing is he was talking about the drone program and he said I never had any idea that I would be so good at killing people yeah oh yeah that was chilling oh my when you the last month of the George W Bush administration bush killed two people with the use of a drone in his last month mm-hmm his last month as president he killed 424 people with drones if that doesn't put things into perspective I don't know what does hmm as we've been talking we get we

[26:46] received some breaking news nikki Haley you an ambassador of resigned yeah so what are your thoughts on that and and what does this what is that a sign of I mean this is before the midterms and your UN Ambassador resigns what's what's up with that I have a couple of thoughts on this mm-hmm nikki Haley was simply not taken seriously around the world and she was she was loved in in the Trump White

[27:16] House mm-hmm and in the State Department among the political people but she just was not a serious ambassador she had literally no foreign policy experience with that said I recently spoke with a very senior Republican Party official who was also a senior member of the Trump campaign this is a nationally known figure and he told me an absolutely fascinating story he said that Henry McMaster

[27:46] who is now the governor of South Carolina was the lieutenant governor during the Trump campaign and Henry McMaster was the first elected official in America to endorse Donald Trump so when Trump won the election the campaign went to McMaster and said what do you want what do you want for a reward and McMaster said I want to be governor of South Carolina well Nikki Haley was already the governor of South Carolina hmm so you need to get nikki

[28:16] Haley out well what is nikki Haley want Nikki Haley wants to be President of the United States and what's holding her back is that she had no foreign policy so she said sure she'll resign as governor of South Carolina if she can either have UN Ambassador or Secretary of State well Trump already had ideas for Secretary of State usually a Christie Tillerson Petraeus he wasn't gonna make her Secretary of State

[28:47] but he was willing to make her ambassador to the United Nations so she took that job which prepares her now for 2024 and McMaster became governor of South Carolina so why she resigned this early in the term doesn't make sense to me I think she really was not effectual at the United Nations and she probably wants to make some money before she eventually runs for president but in the long term I think that's the plan now she did say

[29:18] today after her meeting with the president that she was going to campaign for Republicans in the midterm elections which any potential presidential candidate would do because that's how you collect political chips exactly and second she said that she would campaign with the president in 2020 well that's going to continue to raise her profile and make her appealing or more appealing to Republican Party activists in advance of 2024 I think she knows exactly what she's doing except when it came to being a UN

[29:52] Ambassador Lee clueless oh my goodness you know any sort of intellectual curiosity no sort of it's probably oh yeah policy have to work none of that at all none of that at all well John I thank you for your insights today I mean they have been extremely illuminating and we appreciate all the hard work you have done and all the hard work you are doing I look forward to having it all

[30:23] for the fifth time sometime soon and thank you for what you do this is really great yeah thank you thank you ladies and gentlemen this was John Kiriakou if you got the chance as I said before get the book doing time like a spy how the CIA taught me to survive and thrive

[30:53] in
