Title: Ian's discussions with John Kiriakou
Show: Ian Discussions
Date: 2018-01-30
URL: https://youtu.be/VEeFY6ACD5Y
Duration: 92:00

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[00:00] [Music] thanks for uh tuning in the Grateful Dead a uh a golden nugget if you will to uh to our days and our times um and uh look um this program

[00:31] aims to help you be informed basic simple that's it okay my tagline is be awesome ian.com that's i a n t r TTI i r I come to you every Wednesday from the Windwood District of Miami Florida it all started folks from the zika scare that hit South Florida last

[01:03] year and the outrage that was sparked over the pesticide that was being sprayed for it Ned okay it just so happens that Ned was engineered in the 1950s by the Chevron Chemical Corporation what is nailed it's also known as diam it's currently manufactured by Van card Chemical Corporation out of Los Angeles right if you have interest on my opinion on

[01:33] that just type in in Honey Colony just as it sounds and that article will shoot up Mariam hennon she runs honey Colony she's been past guest on my show we got lots and lots and lots of stuff going on folks and if you tuned in last hour John kyaku joined us I mean this guy is

[02:05] amazing pardon me as I needs to sneeze for a moment one second I produce and I host and we're an independent radio show and um anyway so John is an American Legend he's an American Legend folks he stands up he stood up and he will continue to stand up for your rights your Liberties your freedoms and your Justice and he will do so if it costs

[02:37] him two years in federal prison as it did and as he basically described to us you going to call me a rat I'm going to call you out you're a liar and that's basically what he said to the US government because those above him I.E George Bush were

[03:11] apparently of the knowledge that the Central Intelligence Agency was torturing it may not seem like a big deal to you but put yourself in that person's shoes put yourself in the person's shoes of being torture getting slammed up against the wall being waterboarded whatever it is it's not right it's

[03:42] wrong and as he described the tactics used by the CIA the non- torturous build a report be friendly to your enemy was far more productive it was just that it was productive in getting information to save other people's

[04:13] lives the CIA that was the FBI the CIA took a totally different approach and it proved to be disastrous and John stood up for it and he said no you can't do this it's wrong we've got a treaty with the we we human beings are human beings so like I said probably about that 501 502 Mark John kiraku is a legend folks and not just a legend

[04:44] physically and emotionally and mentally he is a legend for anybody to map or duplicate their own moral ethical values if something is wrong stand up for it wow okay so that was the 4:00

[05:16] hour in a few moments we'll be joined by JP lindroth and JP obtained his doctor philosophy that's a PhD and social and cultural anthropology from the University of Oxford and actually brought up Oxford in my discussion with John Kaku because Oxford just so happens to base many of their philosophical approaches

[05:48] to what was handed down from the Greeks and John happens to be Greek and ancestry so JP will join us and talk to us about out his new book uh which uh is on poetry let me first get in to Julie's piece now there's a lot happening on this program there's a lots

[06:19] of changes and I want to mention that there are now I think actually Four uh contri ruting members to this program the first is Julie Gomez she's local to Miami and she um she's a journalism student at local school here miam dat college and she will be contributing a piece each

[06:52] week we also welcome uh to the program Melissa Lopez and Melissa is based in Southern California she's in Hollywood she has radio experience and media experience she will be contributing a weekly piece for us and I just had an incredible discussion this afternoon

[07:22] with a doctor based in New York that takes a natural approach to remedy something that's highly important because as in the past we've talked extensively about vaccines and that will be a major point of discussion come January vaccines Dr Serena will be joining us in the New Year finally our fourth

[07:53] contributor who's jumping aboard is Joshua demerest he will be be editing he's got a degree from winthrip University he currently works for book Logics based in Atlanta Georgia he's got an extensive young resume of media and journalism and being a

[08:26] contributor editor in fact he's editor-in-chief of the magazine Gallows Hill so those are all new developments in the program and um we just continue to uh grow now the piece that Julie's delivered us today has to do with a major topic from

[08:57] last week and it en cringes on again here we're talking about our rights our liberties post 911 as we spoke about with John we have lost major major major rights and making the internet neutralized in some form is a big issue just like the Federal Reserve the Federal Reserve the economics that fund the US government

[09:27] are centralized that's what the Federal Reserve is a central bank from everything that I know not an economist I'm not a banker I'm not a politician at the moment but that's what the Federal Reserve is okay so when you neutralize things it ENC cringes on freedom and growth and Justice and Liberty Julie delivers the following to us under President Obama the FCC voted

[09:58] in favor of net neutrality in order to keep the internet open and free on Thursday December 14th 2017 the FCC led by anit pay ended net neutrality what is net neutrality now some of the terms that I previously mentioned seem to conflict so I apologize if I was using incorrect terms but let's continue according to

[10:29] Mariam Webster it's the idea principle or requirement that internet service providers should or must treat all internet data as the same regardless of its kind Source or destination to put it simply Julia writes internet providers can't charge websites like Netflix more than websites like Facebook or Yahoo despite their differences in how much data or bandwidth they use or the deals made between websites and internet providers net neutrality also allowed a

[10:59] small mom and pop Business website or teenagers blog to be seen just as easily as a Fortune 500 companies okay now that's important because that's kind of what we're doing here at Winwood radio at least on this program discussions any minute of the day one can open their internet browser and find out what's going on in the world hear or read the same story with different perspectives even read stories that broadcasting companies like Fox CNN won't run but Vice or BBC News will

[11:30] however since internet providers are now allowed to choose which websites have an easier time connecting to our phones the numerous choices we have gain information will soon begin to decline stars like Jimmy Kimmel and John Oliver along with 83% of the American population strongly opposed the repealing net neutrality despite the strong opinions of many regarding it the FCC will vote three or two 3 to2 on repeal repealing it this not only affects stream websites it also affects

[12:00] artists whom use Instagram Twitter Facebook Etsy and similar sites that utilize the open internet and various opportunities it offers to make a living artists like Alex Cohen the creator of tiny sneak comics and comedians like Mario ril depend on social media to display their Creations the Internet isn't what it is because of isps but as a result of millions of artists and creators who rely on people having unburdened access to what they're making take that away

[12:31] and it's going to look a lot more like cable the dreaded television segmented beyond recognition and impossible for individuals to be successful on their own and it's not that television is not a great invention it is actually invented in San Francisco but it's the content that is allowed to infiltrate the hours of consumption on the television Julia continues I think any creator with an online following regardless of their medium has a responsibility to speak up in support of

[13:01] net neutrality because it's not it's excuse me it's truly not a political or partisan issue it's about the future of the internet as we know it Cohen wrote me when asked for a statement again this is Julie speaking though the vast majority of these dependent those dependent on the internet have begun to fear the worst ramill stated this quote big companies are always trying to over their consumers one way or another all they care about is money artists especially have always dealt with situations like

[13:32] this in one form or another one thing is certain whether it's online or stage or in the street we will always express ourselves end quote exclamation end quote citizens are choosing to express themselves by calling their State Attorneys General offic insist they join the multi-state lawsuit against the FCC starting by New York's Attorney General Eric Schneiderman Schneiderman I think it is Florida State Attorney General Pam Bondi and Pam is not announced any plans to join the multi suit lawsuit however

[14:04] her office number for citizenship Services is 850- 414 3990 thank you Julie she continues when net neutrality is typed into search engine many articles titled net neutrality rules are dead will my bill go up from USA Today or net neutrality vote what this means for consumers from many post pop people are scared their way of life is going to dramatically change many are limited to around two or

[14:37] three internet providers if they're lucky once companies start raising their prices those who can't afford it might have regress back to a time without internet at their homes the number of social media users May soon begin to dwindle if providers begin to outrageously increase their prices amen P can still tweet photos of his giant Reese's Pieces peanut butter mug but it'll be vain in Americans no longer

[15:08] afford to log into their Twitter accounts despite the cons this has for consumers American citizens might agree the most troubling part of it all is the question no one has answered yet if 83% of American population vo their disapproval why did the FCC still repeal net neutrality folks everything leads back to money and in then money in the United States it's called the Federal

[15:41] Reserve Julia continues and those are my comments by the way citizens actively signed petitions called the leaders of their States government as well directly calling the FCC despite the opposition met against the repealing of net neutrality pay Brendan Carr and Michael O'Reilly all voted for it they ignored the voice of the people and chose option like companies such as AT&T and Comcast shout outs says

[16:13] Julie patreon.com tiny snck Comics that's p a t r o n.com t i n s n k Comics shout out facebook.com SL tiny snack Comics shout out facebook.com Mari ramill comedy that's m a r i o r a m i l c o m e d

[16:44] y and again Julie is asking for all to write to Pam bonding floral.com cont and her number again is 850- 414 399 0 if you have luck and you can get

[17:14] through on that number let me know.com that's i a n t TTI r.com radio if you choose and I'll be back folks with JP lindra thanks for tuning in to your 5:00 hour of discussions I'm your host T TR this is wi [Music]

[17:57] radio [Music] my

[18:32] [Music] oh [Music]

[19:23] the time is 528 that's pm. Eastern Standard again this is Winwood radio.com I'm your weekly host for the show discussions based out of the Winwood District of Miami Florida and this afternoon we have on program for the second time uh very fortunate to have JP lindru rejoining us JP are you there yes thank you and thank you for the invitation again it's my my honor

[19:55] how did it go last time um we had a we had a really cool discussion it just so happened that the last time you came on the program it was national news um what was going on in Spain and so it was it was an interesting dynamic because um for a few few weeks prior to that I'd had this marvelous Talent uh Pascal Val um and she happened to uh be on the show that day and so we we took an

[20:26] interesting approach to merging the two conversations but uh um what's going on in your life since then how are things everything's great and thanks a lot yeah and um you know I'm on my way to Brazil uh next week and just want to give a quick shout out to uh my Brazilian girlfriend her name is Casia which is the basis of part of the book of poetry that we're gonna talk about I guess cool and it's her birthday today

[20:56] and the reason why I wanted to shout out just it's her birthday today so I just wanted to wish her happy birthday at police annivers audio wow sorry I very cool dude um you you speak a little Portuguese I guess or is that the extent of it yes I I'm fluent in Portuguese and Spanish and uh so yeah all right um and and and where does is it Kasha Casia yes Casia where where does

[21:27] she live she lives in sou Pao Brazil in sou Paulo okay I haven't been have you I'm sure you've been so so you know that I did uh my fbite research in Brazil in manous okay which is in the Amazon and uh and so um my next well my next uh non-fiction book my anthropological book which I'm it's the proposal is getting reviewed now um is based on that research when I um you know interviewed

[21:58] and researched eight different ethnic groups within the the city of manow which is in the the biggest city in the Brazilian Amazon okay and and most of John is it is it is it correct to say that the how do you summarize what you do now you you're a you're obviously a doctor of philosophy uh you teach classes at a couple different institutions I think um what's your main focus what what is JP Linder what how are you changing the

[22:29] world okay so okay um well right now I mean I'm teaching uh the honors program at Title One School uh the Royal Palm Beach High School I'm teaching in their their ath program which is Cambridge University based program uh US history and their honors history US history for 11th grade I'm an Adent professor at Barry University I teach an anthropology course there I guess I'm a general intellectual I mean I I've changed my research Focus around Ian um you know my

[23:01] my doctoral research was on the Spanish bass we talked about that in my last book I'm creative I'm an artist I'm a writer uh you know this next book coming out is a book of poetry um you know also probably going to write a novel here soon and um and so my my focus on anthropologically at least I I had a full bright uh foreign um senior scholarship to go to bra brail and study Urban Indians and be a

[23:31] visiting at the visiting professor at the University do F Al there and you um can you put on your your best English accent for us maybe introduce your hasn't come out in a while yeah yeah so introduce the introduce your new book with an English accent oh my introduce my book um with an English accent well the the title of

[24:04] my new book is uh the Forgotten Shore so it's uh it's a um book of poetry I've been writing poetry since I was a little little kid wow and um I uh and I've been also an artist since I was a little kid so fortunately for me the editor chose to include some of my paintings uh with in the book and this part the book so that was kind of nice amazing um okay yeah so the book is uh

[24:34] all right maybe maybe I'll try in English action the Forgotten sha that's forgotten sha yeah The Pick of poetry by JP lindro that's right I I can I can I can do that without uh without feeling guilty because my uh my mother happens to be British yeah you have an ancestry I don't I don't I kind of lost my English a little bit because it's been a while since I've been to the UK but yeah and and John you it's you say you caught

[25:06] you caught about 30 minutes of that episode with uh with John kiraku what did you think of that I really liked that it was he's a really interesting guy first of all and I I I agree with you I think he's an American hero for uh letting the American people know about torture in relation to what the CIA was doing post 911 of course uh the erosion of civil rights from the Patriot Act and also you know I've taught on terrorism and and that subject as well

[25:38] and so I find it very interesting you know the bass had the terrorism thing going for a while and I was working on the bass peace process for a while and so that that all that aspect is quite interesting for me and and uh so I I I I found it I found it very interesting yeah for sure all right so maybe we maybe at that tail end of this we can get uh get some of your comments but let's get into uh let's get into some poetry here um sure and uh I think you uh you know I was going to go after this one uh first off are you prepared

[26:10] to read uh read some of this to us or um absolutely if you like me to I'll be glad I mean I'll be glad to if you have any ones that uh you particularly like uh or I can choose one or two or whatever whatever you think it's up to you you're the I'm the host here yeah okay so um let me see so obviously the one the one I I I want to go into is um and it's only because I spent two years um and

[26:40] you know I don't know if you knew this or not but I I actually happened to meet uh um Vincente Fox who's a former president of the Mexican Republic um wow I met him while I was uh I was I was down in uh in the yukatan uh for a couple a couple years I was down there wow that's great and um anyway so so I think as as as you would know and is anybody who who else has is kind of lived um I growing up in

[27:11] growing up in California John we didn't have the the the the the the best of impressions of of of of Mexican I'm just my perspective just what it was like for me growing up and and when I was when I was when I was asked to to live in Mexico my eyes just kind of whoa wait a second these are amazing people and they're not all that the Mystique no or media you know your Clint Eastwood movies and whatever um right these are

[27:41] loving beautiful amazing people and absolutely you just you learn to love their food you learn to love their dress you learn to love their language wonderful It's a Wonderful country and they have so many different indigenous populations and you have an affinity as I do for the Mayan population there and um they have a wonderful history and archaeological history in prehistory and pre-colonial history and it's it is just a a wonderful country that's where I

[28:13] first learned Spanish again in kavaka oh wow I spent a summer in kavaka and um and so I've I've had a love for Mexico since very early on as well I went through um and we'll get to this P here but but I went through um from from in route from dayf to aapco there's something called The Devil's elbow I think they call it or the devil's turn or something it's like you go you go up out of uh Mexico City and

[28:45] then you go down uh into Guan vaka and then you have you're you're doing like 60 and then you have to kind of slow down to like 10 um to make this turn but um um yeah so anyway so so we'll go we'll go over to the the the peninsula here and um and and and and let's let's talk about mind memories um should I read it or or do you have should I okay if you'd like yeah I'll be glad if I'd be very honored if you read it if you'd like expain yeah okay so for listeners Mayan memories this is uh JP

[29:18] lindrith May memories they buried us with our eyes wide open we were Isel Mayans we were kjab all Mayans we were chush Mayans we were Mayans we were AI Mayans we were mom Mayans we were Ki Mayans we were K Mayans we were

[29:48] 200,000 we disappeared they buried us with our eyes wide open they were all lying on the ground with their hands hands tied behind their backs some were dead some were barely moving and Alive the soldiers were hitting them with machetes and blood was everywhere they gathered all the women and children into one thatched HUD and burnt It To The Ground the

[30:20] screams were horrific and were deafening they buried us with our eyes wide open the gorillas came one night to the house of my uncle asking for food we called these people The Men Who came at night they were trying to persuade people to join them They Carried Away three men I knew my uncle was

[30:50] one when they did not come back their families and mine went looking we found them in the corn fields some had arms chopped off their heads were barely attached to their necks then the soldiers came at 4 a.m. they started shooting at all of us terrified screaming everywhere running woman and

[31:22] children the next day we buried so many of them in the fields we did not perform any ceremonies we were too afraid they buried us with our eyes wide open I was in the field on the hillside picking maze beans and peppers they came from behind me and took me three of them soldiers all of them laughing laughing laughing at me they put a scarf in my

[31:52] mouth to muffle my screams they're ripped away my red we peel and Corte and tore off my underwear they were heavy on top of me so heavy and they had bad breath one had a mustache and sideburns all of them kept laughing taking turns holding my arms holding my legs I was shaking all over and could not stop trembling and they buried us with eyes wide

[32:23] open my cousin disappeared one day one day he just did not show up and we never heard from him again by then the Army had burnt down our house and we were forced to stay with my grandmother then one day the Army brought my uncle in a coffin to our house his head was still bleeding my grandmother picked up his arms and she could still move them they

[32:53] were flexible this is when we knew he was killed not so long ago that is when we decided to leave the mountains and we left for elte for good they buried us with our eyes wide open our soul will never rest they buried us with our eyes wide

[33:24] open well I have to ref frin from drawing tear here and perhaps I should have let it out but it it makes me think of something that I know the Mayan from my understanding they had a calendar that was more precise than that of the

[33:55] Aztec and they were in tune with science math astrology and in fact my understanding is that what we know as the number if it can be Quantified as zero it was something that they understood and they knew but what invented zero that's correct yeah sure yep but what I'm getting at John is is my knowledge of Chichen and

[34:27] the only knowledge is this and and this is very interesting right that um I don't know what was said in that 30 minutes that you caught but one thing that John spoke of was the approach the FBI had versus what the CIA had and the CIA would torture these people and they would be unresponsive yet the FBI says hey let me offer you a a a food a date let me give you something build a rapport right the the the the people people that

[34:59] inadvertently had laid claim over the land that the Mayan were living upon uh my understanding John it wasn't until 1913 or maybe just before that turn of the century there but somewhere around there where it was a Harvard Peabody U scientist um I think his name was John th um that that took a a British um painter

[35:33] or or or Adventurer and they marched into chichin and they began a restoration effort and up and up until that time um from the decline of whenever the Mayan had stopped using that particular city um chuchin was nothing more than um trees growing out out of it and bushes over growing on top of it so it's obviously it's how we

[36:07] approach I mean this poem makes me want to cry John um thank you very much that's very um I'm very honored by you saying that joh that Ian and um you know the the you're right the first epigraphers were the turn of the 20th century um and I was just thinking that you know just going you know relating to what John kirow um said you know glal changed

[36:41] after the CIA coup there in 1950 right with our Ban's government and because we had Plantation interest there you the AR Ben's government was seen as too liberal so that government was overthrown and um we trained a lot of these military people in the school of the Americas they committed these atrocities that led to the genocide in Guatemala

[37:13] so the quote um they buried us with their eyes with our eyes wide open comes from a Harvard scholar Anthropologist and medical doctor named Paul Farmer who worked who has worked and still works quite a bit in the developing world and that was a quote from him that he um you know from some of his informants that he interviewed about

[37:44] post um Guatemala post uh genocide post Civil War and also the other the other stories within that poem come directly from inter interviews I had with people of of memories of that genocide and legal depositions that lawyers in Florida took uh from memories of that genocide so that rape story is from a legal deposition the story of the uncle uh

[38:15] being brought to the house after he was newly killed or assassinated um that was from a interview that I conducted with an informant who who shared her memories of her family um and her as a child um from that atrocity and and so so these are this poem is actually based on real stories and real people's memories and and how they felt

[38:47] and to be buried with your eyes wide open um in in the Mayan culture is like a crime because you know they have all these kind of indigenous ceremonies and ceremonies with incense and it combines you know C Catholicism and synchronicity but you know the soul in other words their souls have not rested because of that their need their eyes needed to be closed they need to be reburied and they what they meant by that was that they didn't go through the ceremony to have closure for the for

[39:19] their souls to have rest and so that's what that phrase means means that they were they us with with our eyes wide open wow wow I mean wow that's just that's deep and you're telling me that you've been writing poetry as a child since you were a child since I was a little kid like I and it's probably also my interest in Native Americans and I had an interest in animals and natural

[39:49] being a naturalist as well and so I've been yeah I've been lighting since I was a little kid and and this is my uh first attempt at more of a complete book and uh you know it's about a Pages now so it'll come out the first week of January I'm sorry that I I couldn't give you a copy earlier we we had a bit of a publishing delay but that's what happen so uh very anyway very thoughtful of you

[40:21] um so wow and and you know I I I these these ancient civilizations the um you know the year the the the Europeans um as an overall from a governmental standpoint I mean we at the the the the natives that were living on this land before uh before Europeans arrived you know they're all forced to integrate or put on reservations and right so yeah so

[40:51] the so the Mayan civilization had collapsed before the Spanish arrived right okay and the classic Maya culture because chichito you just mentioned is a postclassic site and I'm sorry that I know a little bit about this just because that yeah I was I studied archaeology you know and I actually went down to uh bise with Florida State and I was part of their archaeological program we were Excavating sort of incipient maze agriculture to see if maze began in that region uhuh and we also were looking at

[41:23] um you know different sites and I found a a a burial like the LA one of the last days that we were there you know the the mai used to bury their dead under their houses and we found like a 3000 year burial or whatever was so so chichin is actually a post classic site and it's influenced by toex and from more Central Mexico because by that time the classic Maya period had collapsed and probably mostly do but

[41:54] among many things what mostly do sorry my mostly due to to Warfare um but there's a whole other factors that why that culture civilization collapsed right so many factors uhuh so they but you you know what what is interesting is that elements uh survive and and and certainly architecturally elements survive but um so like for instance when I when I met this um Vincente Fox um which was in a small little village of

[42:24] viad deled uh in that little village which is just outside of it's kind of the area tourist stop for food and gas before uh before getting to uh to Chichen which is about 30 40 minutes to its West um in in right in front of that Convent the convent the convento San Bernardino um was where I met him and um in this little village um English is very scarce uh Spanish is also very scarce most of these people in

[42:56] in this Village and certainly the the smaller Villages outside of it um that's what they speak is Mayan and um and so we we I learned a few phrases I mean BOS kaik is is one of them and I think that may have been that basically means K Pasa but when I was reading your poem it kind of started the pronunciation kind of started coming coming back to me a bit right right um those very difficult

[43:28] indigenous words right yeah Fox I really like that guy he's a he's a really interesting intellectual me Mexican intellectual and uh he's been a very outspoken CR critic of this current government of ours yeah um but he's he has a good sense of humor too but he must have been really interesting to talk to and meet Ian I EnV you for that yeah yeah H thank you uh and of course my Mex my favorite Mexican-American writer is Carlos fenes Carlos Fuentes I I I I I don't know him well but I

[43:59] certainly recognize the name yeah he he wrote a book called The Death of artmo Cruz which is the about the Mexican Revolution Civil War which I really like wow again another book another novel novel about memory I yeah panilla Milan saato um yeah yeah that's right that's right so let's uh let's get into uh let's get into in kafka's mind can we can we go

[44:30] there so oh I'm sorry in kafka's mind sure we can do that should I read it sure I mean you're the you're the host why not I'm very honored for you to read my poems okay so in kafka's Mind by JP lindra and again let me just mention JP for for those interested uh in in your Publications is it what's your what's your your main web

[45:02] destination so academia.edu and that you'll find all my Publications pretty much uh academia.edu is a academic website um connecting academics all over the world really and there's like 50 million academics connected on that website and I just I it's just um a place where it's kind of like a you know it's a Social Media Forum you put your your Publications there and people look them up and you know if you put them

[45:32] there then more people will look at them and so on and and actually you're you know I'd put your link to the radio show that when we talked last time I put it there and there's quite a few people uh accessing that and looked at that and downloaded that so so before we read this and uh I feel honored that you uh want me to read it and certainly will before we read this um describe to listeners who is Kafka and what what is

[46:05] the uh what is this poem about okay so France kofka France cka um is an existential is an existential Jewish writer um lived at the turn of the century he unfortunately died as a young man um but basically with some complications of like tuberculos tuberculosis I think he starved uh because he was so ill he couldn't get food down but basically he had all these

[46:38] writings and manuscripts and he had this friend named Max bro and Kafka you know on his death bed he was so ill he's he he had mentioned to his friend you know just burn all my my manuscripts just you know get rid of them and thankfully uh Max brood didn't follow his friends directive and end up publishing publishing them and so we

[47:09] have a wonderful we have a a lot of these kind of um how do I want to say the um distopic visions of the world and very existentialist visions of the world um you have the the book The Trial you know you're it's this person who's on trial and he doesn't know what he's crimes he's charged of and this kind of gets into your last interview with John

[47:39] Kira like it's just kind of this the state the state Authority having to able to do whatever it wants at the expense of the individual and that's a theme that runs throughout um his writings and and being kopka being Jewish uh having been persecuted in that that era from you know racism and and prejudice against Jewish people are pretty prevalent and you know he also wrote uh

[48:09] the short novel The Noel the metamorphosis where a man basically becomes an insect um he wrote a short story called The Hunger Artist where the hunger the artist is on display in a cage kind of like black panther as he describes it and you know how this artists are you know basically starving for their art and so on and so forth so for many people and many writers Kafka represents this kind of a darker

[48:41] aspect of humanity but and and he's very much like George Orwell and his dystopic vision of the world but at the same time he's also kind of a precursor to people like uh kamu and French writer Kimu and uh and other writers like U sh Paul SAR and people like that but it's unfortunate he died so young but we were you know as a as Humanity we were very fortunate that his

[49:11] poems his poem sorry his novels and his writings and His short stories were actually published and so I identify with Kasa in this kind of his vision of the world in the way so let's get to describe I don't know if I did a good job or not but yeah but that's how I would two before we get into it two things that popped into my mind while you were describing that is one are you familiar with the Poo vo

[49:47] if I pronounced that right pop Vu Vu the PO Vu yes yes of course um so so so that's something that popped into my mind and and and and the the other thing that popped in my mind it just escaped me um but um but anyway for for for for listeners who aren't aware of what the pple Vu was when when you'd mentioned when You' mentioned uh burning of uh I it just came back in my

[50:17] mind when you'd mentioned burning of of uh transcripts and and and documents and and and and work that was that was written this is what the PPU vo is and was but it's elements of the history of the uh of the Mayan a tribe of the May a Kesh I think it is just looking at the Wikipedia here for it um and it was so so when when these the PO is a sacred Central text of the Mind culture in the sense of their vision of

[50:48] the afterlife right okay and there was these twin twin hero Gods twin hero gods that are uh sacrifice and then sacrifice themselves and then the the the gods of death in the Underworld try to kill them and then they regenerate and so they overcome death in other words got it okay I didn't know that so the constant theme in in the Mayan culture with the Poo Vu is regeneration of life and death is prevalent because you know the May has practice human sacrifice and so on and so forth so the

[51:20] the twin heroes from the PO Vu are part of that mythology is you know their reasons why they they had Human Sacrifice so the pop Vu is their their Notions of the underworld and that's why caves are so sacred to the Mayan people because they are entrances to that Under World which is represented the pople yeah interesting yeah um the other thing that had come to my mind as you were describing kofka was um so since we've

[51:53] spoken last I've I've brought in um and this is maybe what you caught if you were listening to the beginning of this uh segment uh Julie Gomez um is um is a she's she's joined um a staff that that that I'm creating now and and she's a local journalism student but uh she'll be contributing on a weekly basis uh various various items of of of research and and um today she spoke about net neutrality but last week she spoke about um um Guantanamo Bay and

[52:25] and and this is this is why there's relevance here because these prisoners at Guantanamo are drawing um these what seem to be the images that I've seen I don't know how they've gotten out but beautiful kind of um sunset sunrise you know right yeah their art yeah I've seen that yes yes yes I saw that and the uh unfortunately the US military on The Stance of that is to destroy uh destroy this um from what I know and so she'

[52:55] kind of looked in that a little bit but um but anyway so uh that's a that's a segue but uh you know we can kind of um we can put together um ends ends that make a make a spark um uh the human bind is is is is is it's interesting that guat there's a whole I think there's a curator I can't remember where I but um there's a curator and there's an exhibit of their drawings and their paintings

[53:26] I think it's I if I'm not mistaken it's the Metropolitan Museum of Art or the or it's the Museum of Modern Art m one of the two and they're displaying their artwork oh they are okay they're displaying it from what I've read from what I saw on television or whatever I I just saw it briefly okay so um in cfas in K kafka's mind in kafka's mind it reads us reads reads us this again uh by JP

[53:58] linstruth in the darkest recesses the indignant regresses and the constant obsessive obsessive self-loathing feelings thoughts growing reings inquisitions in disqui itude dis attritions in plentitude bureaucrats in Shadow plays all autocrats shallow

[54:32] displays an insurance technocrat and yet a writer true how even then he knew bring for the glowing Moon alluding to the gloaming and unending Doom denials in obfuscation trials without causation God or no flawed fellow Judaism cloaked from others

[55:07] racism times of incipient fascism oceanless atheism and socialist activism sometimes his animal magnetism and stoic skepticism self aggrandizing substitutes women for fathers ebony caligraphy womanizing prostitutes

[55:38] pornography galvanizing fortitude permutes with those haunting others varying enigmatic iconography so many near betro s or mere woman in broils the oipal dis approving patriarch the contemptible ucing

[56:10] birthmark burn the notebooks with bonfire burn them all spurn with an auster Outlook mired in Ernest Thal the prodigious godsend Max broad accusations and precations of nonsensical crimes unethical persecutions of nightmarish

[56:40] times epical tragedies without Absol perishing in his prime who are the accusers and abusers conjurers and users of dark arts witness black Pagan hearts daggered with poisoned arrows tuberculosis sickness flagrant fictive counterparts lagered treasons without

[57:12] reason dead sparrows torturous confusions with life's many delusions profusions of doubts and pinoid whereabouts the insane and the profane concealed Mysteries of the inan lunatic conspiracies with wax and Wayne heretic histories of great pain obsessions with

[57:42] unknown entities confessions of non-rgd felonies without apparent remedies shadowed loneliness hollowed obliqueness nonetheless hollowed out to confess Transformations into slimy Vermin into bug into insect damnations through pensively burning through

[58:14] hallucinations without drugs mental malformations hitherto the Eternal suspect cir irum spect frustrations hideous Sensations and piteous minations felt muscled black leopard in hunger knelt muffled shuffled attacked poetic Shepherd recompense for the offense of starvation and defense of

[58:49] deprivation personal privations ravenous pacing in the cage callous debasing on the stage muted oligarchy of the forboding Fortress disputed citizenry of encoding thoughtless reputed hierarchy of goding conscious to the void to the abyss to nothingness to avoid to miss to the

[59:19] senseless devoid remiss Timeless paranoid reminisce Oblivion Darkness destroyed resist Unforgiven civilian hopeless absurd isolation abject frustration incurred desolation disconnected narration oppression and regression living in Eternal fear non- intercessions from

[59:51] transgressions on forgiving infernal and aere convert depression horrendous and ever tragic overt suppression portentious and endeed Manic and pathologic an allergy to the forom and forsaken Outcast the apoy of him born to accusations

[1:00:23] unsurpassed yes thank you in kafka's mind that's a lot going on um yes and I and you have to understand like in that home I I tried to Encompass all his writings all his thoughts all his um all what he represented in his writings and also his personal biography

[1:00:55] as well wow um there there's some words in there obviously that I uh didn't know how to pronounce nor did I know the meaning of but um right one of my my editors one of the thing he said is that John you know your your your your your poetry can be intellectually challenging and it and it and it um challenges the reader right it's yeah challenging to the reader right

[1:01:25] so but it's meant to be that way in a way and I guess I was very much influenced by the the Irish poet laureate um Sheamus Haney in that in that regard and how how so Sheamus Haney um writes in very symbolic and obscure ways and he has a way of turning a phrase or having meaning that and the first representation is not you know it's not what it's being represented you know a

[1:01:57] bog can be the conflict in Northern Ireland for example and so there's a lot of hidden meeting and and and as I mentioned in my preface of This Book Is that what I try to represent is an archaeology of emotions and you know I'm getting that notion that idea from Melle Fuko is a French philosopher his notion of the idea of archaeology of knowledge where in in in my view of how interpret

[1:02:27] that is that the reader has to dig to understand kind of the emotions that are being brought forward in this in this in the writing so forgotten Shore includes it looks like you've got 80 poems in there is that right um I think there're how many do I have I think it's 36 poems that's 80 pages ah 80 pages okay yeah and what 3 38 poems May

[1:03:01] yeah sorry um what um what what is what what poem um sticks out in your mind is um being one that I uh kind of portrays the Forgotten Shore whatever that you know thank you um I guess it depends on who the reader is in the audience and what they want to get out of it I mean you know part of it was writing

[1:03:31] about my divorce and uh and going through those emotions and so the Forgotten Shore itself I mean there's a poem um the last poem of the of the book is the Forgotten Shore which the which the um the book is named after and the idea of the Forgotten Shore is that it's a place that you know somehow that the love you had for this other person broke off and you're kind of left on this forgotten Shore could be like an island

[1:04:01] or it could be a beach somewhere be somewhere where you feel forgotten but what I I wrote in the prepet too is that what's not evident to the reader necessarily is that um you know that the there's hope you know there's hope to find love again there's hope to find love once more that you don't miss neily need to stay on that forgotten Shore um so that's one of the things and then there's more humorous poems

[1:04:31] actually in the book too I mean uh you know I have one uh which is an O to dogs um I have one about a a little uh ant philosophies about and then there's a lot of Greek mythology in there there's a lot about art there an artist and then there's some natural observations as well I mean I have one about the lockah river and then I have others about other rivers so there's a there's a little bit

[1:05:02] of everything in there um certainly it's about love and loss and memories of loss and it's also about um biographies of people too people that I've I've known like my grandparents and things like that so there's a little bit of everything I think in it John how how long is the this compilation take for you to put together you know some of the poems are years old um some were WR written recently you

[1:05:36] know a few like about four of the poems this past year um I put together in kind of a a frenzy of artistic inspiration um majority of poems within a within the eighth month even a six to 8th month period I had some a lot of the poems that are the majority of the book but like O2 a child for example that's that's an old old that's a that's a poem to uh my brother

[1:06:09] whose wife had a miscarriage the third term of their pregnancy was kind of sad and then the veil is about my experiences in Sevilla Spain and kind of take on that the Adon Sak is about Basque fishermen which I kind of studied in The Basque country in Spain and then there's you know other things you know things that poems that were written I guess in memory of my ex-wife and there's poems even a couple

[1:06:40] poems about Casi in there who I wished happy birthday tonight and then so there's a little bit of everything so that's um yeah and what what type of uh reception is the book getting and maybe it's probably too new to Market if it hasn't even come out yet so it's it's supposed to have been published in in December but we had a hiccup because the poem that you just read and again I'm very honored that You' read it in kafka's mind um for

[1:07:13] whatever reason in the back and forth between edits and looking at drafts U my editor just forgot to include it and so I asked him can he include it and he did so it's just that's been a delay so hopefully um I'll have the books um uh coming out the first week of January and they'll be going out to all those who had supported um my uh Indiegogo campaign to to actually pre-bi the books uh for to help with the

[1:07:44] production so um you know there was but um L fortunately too is that the um the editor the well the publishing the publisher of the book poet um poetic Matrix press um had its 20th anniversary this past year 2017 and so they they put me in the antology I was very fortunate about that and I I really like the editor he's his name is John Peterson he's in California in Northern California and uh

[1:08:17] you know and and so I just feel very fortunate Ian that it actually got published because I I wasn't even sure if somebody would pick them up um you know art is very subjective and as Z know and uh and so somebody may not like some writings of somebody and somebody else might not like it and sure you know you always hear about these novelist you know of the past that might not be published today because of how they wrote write or wrote whatever so poetic Matrix press yeah yes but how

[1:08:52] do how do you think I mean would what are your thoughts in just having read a couple of them homes I'm just curious what well I mean this is you know this is this is this is Art and and and I didn't error my show last week because um art bosel came into town and so this this little station that I um that I that I broadcast from uh here on 27th and I think it's third um they uh they kind of got overrun with with art programming so um

[1:09:24] oh okay my slot uh got uh got uh got got got used used up by by the art so I didn't I didn't go last week but um this you know it's it's it's it's it's this is this to to me this is Art this is just a form of art right I mean um thank you yes thank it's um it's it's it's it's really it's a it's a and this is this is another thing that I'm equating it to so um next uh I'm going to start

[1:09:56] the new year off uh with uh with a guest named Dan Winter he's a fractal field field theorist and and scientist um W former systems analyst at IBM but he's currently uh Consulting for virtual reality computers um I mean you know the way that this guy thinks is and he uses a lot of golden ratio if you're familiar with um with with what what that is and and in in in in kind of his his theor theor of um I guess how man is able to D

[1:10:28] used the golden ratio quite often that's correct yeah okay yeah it sounds familiar um so he's gonna kick off 2018 for for for for my show and um right um you know it's it's it's basically he also talks a lot about um um a couple a couple of well a few people um one would be John D the other one would would be Sir Francis Bacon and the other one would be Shakespeare and um and certainly um the the initial two

[1:11:01] actually influenced um the writings of Shakespeare and we know certainly that Shakespeare is influenced by um some incredible ancient Linguistics of of of the past so um that's that's the first thing that kind of comes to my mind um John is is is how crafty uh you've been able to formulate um your words and um you know that first one just really spoke to me

[1:11:33] um and I think maybe that's because you know because I I know a little bit about um part of that culture but uh yeah just the the words that that you used with the with the woman who had been abused uh it's um I a previous guest I've had on the program is um um she incepted uh the uh the me too um Toronto B right me too hashtag and and and so um I I just it's

[1:12:10] anyway the the ways that you're able to speak um without speaking right yeah is phenomenal no thank you I I that's I'm very humbled by saying that yeah it's a form of communication I'm trying to communicate feelings to the world and doing it in a very symbolic way and you know it's a whole different type of writing John than an academic book or a popular book or yeah or whatever or

[1:12:42] what have you I mean it's you know it is the use of a lot of symbolism and a lot of iconography and things that come to mind and to represent and I I I personally I like I like Greek mythology I go back to it and I guess because you know one of the things that I when I was a little kid I I I was at grade school I was taught the Greek Mythology by this great English teacher that I had and and I just really fell in

[1:13:15] love with it and I since then I've you know I've kind of infused my poems with it but in a lot of ways you know in this if you look at the history of I guess English literature the or Western thought of you I think you had mentioned even earlier on that Greek Greek thought has influenced how we all think right and the mythology or classic ways of paradigms of teaching lessons about the world too so so that I

[1:13:45] think that that's quite important wellow yeah yeah it's funny you mentioned um Greek mythology I I spent a few years in school in in in Oregon and uh there's a there's a very large well-known um apparel company for athletics that emerged from the institution um and so I too actually I I I remember taking these art history classes from uh from uh a guy that uh I

[1:14:16] think it was um I don't know if he had gone to Brown or I'm not sure where he but he but he had studied he' studied a sculpture in ancient sculpture um called the critius boy and um and it was um it was Jeff's kind of uh understanding of the way that the sculpture was uh designed that he's looking at it and I don't know if it was in the British museum or where it was he looking at and he says he says wait a second that head

[1:14:47] and you know this kind of sent shock waves around the kind of world of the crus boy and and those who were studying it and interesting this head is not properly displayed and it needs to be adjusted you know this way and so that was kind of that was nobody had caught on to that previous and and and I don't really know what led to him understanding that and realizing that that needed to be made but um I used to

[1:15:17] love those uh those classes that he would talk about uh um Athena and and and the Acropolis and yeah so you and I do we I think I can um understand your fascination with h with that culture as well no thank you yeah for for sure and uh yeah I mean I um you know when you sometimes when you ask an artist like you know how did you come up with that idea or what inspired you for this or

[1:15:48] that or whatever yeah know sometimes it's hard you're hard put to like put it all together but you know I can say basic EV you know some of the basic events in my life that led to writing that or whatever and uh you know and as I mentioned before it's you know the the love lost or a parent or a grandparent having died or or or finding love again or or just observing nature and all its power and

[1:16:19] Beauty to me are in different Inspirations right there's different levels of inspiration or even just even an artist like kofka a writer like kofka who really never saw the fruition of his Works being published he really didn't want them to be published um ended up has end up being one of the greatest writers in the in the world world literature yeah but just you know that's a thing I mean

[1:16:50] about about art and you can say the same thing for kind of an artist like Vana know van or Picassa you know I once asked uh Oliver Stone this was in San Francisco at a movie theater where he was giving a discussion of uh uh one of his uh I don't remember the name of that film but um sakario no that that was somebody different um anyway

[1:17:20] one of his films and um and you know he'd done these previous he'd done platoon he'd done Wall Street and whatever and I says he's taking a Q&A Q&A and I stand up and I said I said I said Oliver what drives you you what what what drives you and you know as you're talking you know about kind of what went into you creating this piece if you will if you can kind of singular sing singularize it

[1:17:50] um I'm thinking you know hey what drives what drove Hemingway right to uh to to to do what he was doing and and and and and the basic response that I got from uh from from Oliver and I'd have to go back and Replay that but um because a friend of mine actually recorded it but the basic response that I remember getting from from Oliver was um basically the same message of I want to deliver truth to the world you know I want to deliver uh right

[1:18:22] something of of of of of of honesty and I there like this this underlying there's this underlying kind of foundation for all of us that kind of you know hey look here here's this woman in in in in in Guatemala that you know is she's like hey I was I was raped I need help this is wrong and there's there's like this there's who's her voice right who's that woman's voice right how do how do you capture a victim like that um you know there's a whole

[1:18:53] debate on Art and Trauma and art and horror like you know like after the Holocaust for example Ian like are you really supposed to write about such an un unspeakable horror such as the Holocaust right after it happened and and that was a h that's been that was a huge debate and then of course you had people like PR Prima leevy who wrote about it and then you had Vil who wrote you know the night

[1:19:24] um and uh and of course people did end up writing about it and did I guess create art from from tragedy from trauma um but but but like for example you know how how can you accompass that woman's horror that her trauma I mean it's uh you know un the Unspeakable aspects of humanity I mean it's yeah these are you know and then an art supposed to to being the most elevated right so it's

[1:19:55] that contrast yeah JP uh share with us um as we'll uh we'll wrap things up here um share with us share with us your your your next project where where you're where you're taking your uh your career next thanks for asking so um I have a a book in the works that um it's called the civilizing abuses um uh ammer

[1:20:28] um emmer indigenes um and um in in in the in an Amazonian City and basically it's about my research in in Brazil on on Urban and Indian groups but I'm also um you know I'll be starting more of a creative project I've already really started uh writing a novel um I wrote I wrote a novel you when I was I finished novel when I was 23 a 500 page book that I had an agent in New York and everything and uh I

[1:21:00] didn't want to change the ending so it ended up being shelv at the Broan Library which is a a library for non-published writers but but I'm I'm still interested in that genre and I I I you know so future writing wise I have a non-fiction book and I have a fiction book at work now incredible incredible John um wow thank you you impress me more and more all the [Laughter] time I'm very humbled and I assure you

[1:21:33] I'm I'm you know I don't want to come off some intellectual snob or anything like that yeah well you don't you don't um wow okay so um awesome um that'll wrap things up for us and um I just make a comment on hemway though yes of course because you know I I've read everything that the guy's written okay and then I encountered somebody that who had also done that and to me as

[1:22:04] a Young Man Hemingway was the fundamental writer um I mean he's been my inspiration to to write maybe it's the clarity of his Pros but also the kind of life he led and the sad thing of course is that he committ suicide at the end but uh he was interesting guy um and and the reason why I comment on on Hemingway in particular is that he's a you know a very quential American writer not only being part of

[1:22:35] what Gert Stein called The Lost Generation Um defining you know the the writers after World War I but he defined a whole new kind of way of writing pros and uh you know I think a lot of a lot of few a lot of his works are Classics that should be are in the Canon of of American literature should also be read again and again so anything in particular that stands

[1:23:07] out with you from him and how he impressed you Hemingway yeah um uh well let's see he he his short story writing I mean there's a short story called Hills like white elephants which is about um a little short story about whether or not the woman he's with should have an abortion or not it's quite a quite a

[1:23:39] telling piece and it's quite a and it's all obscure and you don't really know it um you don't really kind of you have to figure it out kind of by the end but you know of course uh the the novel that probably got him the garnered him the Nobel Prize was old man the sea you know this the the Journey of this old man with this giant marlin that he catches and keeps it tied up to the to the boat and all the sharks attack the fish

[1:24:09] and he's really not left with much by the time he returns to shore but having you know had caught the great fish and so on MH and I and so and you know what attracts me or what what draws me to Hemingway himself I mean you know there's so much uh maybe those Paris years I know uh um a Movable Feast is great

[1:24:41] collection of stories of course he and Fitzgerald Scott s knew each other and didn't really like each other or used to make fun of that Scott but um I don't know I mean I you know maybe it's just kind of maybe being a sportsman and and all those kind of things that were kind of interesting when I was growing up as a teenager not that I condone you know big game hunting or anything like that

[1:25:12] nowadays but um I just just the way that he writes and is able to carry a mood in very short senses I think is one of his gifts um and and proves that American literature is belongs in all the great literatures of the world and he's one of the writers that did that well said very well

[1:25:44] said uh JP thank you for uh thank you for coming on the show safe travels thank you thank you and um happy birthday again right happy birthday to uh your girlfriend to Tasia I really appreciate that and I thank you so much for the invitation I I know that um you know you know the the the genre poach is that something that us you probably cover in your programs but I I appreciate you in inviting me on again on your show for an interesting discussion and for agreeing to have

[1:26:18] read um a couple of my poems I'm very honored that you did so and uh you know and and I'm and of course I'd like to uh keep you in mind as as writing projects come up and as I get have more Publications that we could talk again hopefully yes I I'm looking forward to it absolutely me too and I will definitely be sending you a copy of the book as soon as I have it in my hands very kind of you very very kind very kind yeah

[1:26:50] yeah okay so um anyway uh if you could if you could one last time uh throw out that website that people can uh can go to that would be awesome Yes um it's academia.edu and it um you know you can go there for free you can also sign up for free um and if it's a good resource even for students or for really anybody who's interested

[1:27:20] in kind of Academia academic writing if you want to download an article you just type in a subject you might be interested in you know or just type A you know like anthropology and a lot of a lot of Articles will pop up or Amazonian Indians and a lot of a lot of Articles will pop up so it's it's just a good resource for information as well um you know for academics as a way of connecting with other academics but it's also just a good resource for you know idea books to read read or

[1:27:52] articles to read and so on very cool very cool ladies and gentlemen and the publisher of this is poetic Matrix press gotten Shore and they're where are they based in uh so they're in California yeah Berkeley or sanco it will be available on amazon.com by the way okay okay ptic Matrix ladies and gentlemen JP lindroth JP until next time yes thank thank you so much all

[1:28:23] right bye take care bye JP linth has a doctorate of philosophy and is an incredibly gifted writer um he rejoins discussions rejoins this program for for uh a second time and uh the

[1:28:55] first time he was on um he was it just happened that Pascal um and he were talking about the same thing and in a sense and so um I was able to pair the discussion together um I got another sneeze woman

[1:29:28] okay pardon me and um and it was a discussion regarding um Spain and the Bosque region so this was this was the first time I got to spend um time one-on-one with JP and um what a wonderful uh show we we were able to deliver uh to this uh this afternoon I will be back in two

[1:29:58] weeks the 3rd of January I'll be back to in the New Year I'll be back with fractal field seist and scientist Dan Winter and as I mentioned earlier I've got a lineup of a few different folks that'll be joining in January but but two of them uh we we'll concentrate on vaccine education Barbara low Fisher co-founder

[1:30:31] and president of the national vaccine information center her books articles and research have appeared in the New York Times Wall Street Journal Washington Post USA Today Time Magazine and Newsweek she's also appeared on CNN CBS FOX MSNBC alzer NPR and NBC's Today Show and like past guest Rachel Ross she's actually also been on the doctors CBS is the doctors Rachel was a main stay Barbara has appeared on it but

[1:31:02] Barbara will be bringing her knowledge and research of vaccines and her um movement to educate in regard to the program next month and we'll also be joined by Dr Sher J ten Penney osteopathic medical doctor uh so we've got some great things happening here and uh it'll be an exciting exciting exciting New Year if you're still listening happy birthday

[1:31:34] again to JP's girlfriend down in Brazil be safe and uh uh enjoy uh enjoy JP um and I leave you today with the same words that I always leave with I'm going to add happy holidays and happy New Year and until next time ladies and gentlemen I am your host Ian

[1:32:05] Hamilton trer you've tuned in to discussions on Winwood radio.com follow me on Twitter i a n t r TT i r follow me on Instagram Facebook if you choose and the words are be

[1:32:39] awesome
