Title: DeProgram Show with Ted Ra
Show: DeProgram Show with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas
Date: 2025-09-04
URL: https://youtu.be/2IPfeItwnb4
Duration: 71:00

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[00:00] Good to see you. >> Hey, good to see you, man. >> Uh, welcome to D program. I'm Ted R. That's John Kuryaku. And it is Thursday, September 4th. We're here, as promised, 5:00 PM Eastern time, as we are Monday through Friday, every single weekday, unless we're not. So, but normally we are. Um, okay. So, today we've got a lot to talk about, John. And obviously, as usual, we're always responsive to your questions and comments. Yes, indeed. >> We love those. So, um, China big cyber

[00:33] attack revealed last year. Salt typhoon is the code word. Targeted over 80 countries, got into all the telephone companies, stole data. Apparently, according to uh the experts, from nearly pretty much every single American citizen. So, that's why the headline today is China's got your number. Uh, we'll talk a little bit about that. I I was fascinated by this. Um, there's war games models using AI models like GPT4

[01:03] tend to escalate conflicts kind of like in the movie war games back from the 80s. Why is that? Uh, we'll talk about that. And uh there's a story out of the Russo Ukrainian conflict where both sides are using telegram which is very popular in that part of the world to basically recruit and exploit naive teenagers, children really to ask them to participate in sabotage operations, usually not for patriotic reasons, but for money. Um and they use blackmail and

[01:34] deception to do so. Ruin their lives. over 175 child uh dupes in from Ukraine face charges for attempted lame attempted sabotage in Russia. And finally, we know courtesy of uh the New York Post and others what exactly the feds got out of John Bolton's house. So, what first? What shall we talk? >> What first? There's so much to say. I I will add something about this uh sabotage thing. Great. There was a piece

[02:05] and I think it was in the New York Times, I'm going to say three, four, five months ago, saying that um that there are other um there are non-state actors like um terrorist groups that are targeting disaffected teenagers on places like Discord or Twitch or whatever and for 50 bucks, you know, or a hundred bucks getting them to throw a

[02:38] Molotov cocktail, put a small, you know, explosive device in front of a store or bank or whatever. This is this is a thing now. It's not just the Russians and the Ukrainians. Bad people are convincing disaffected teenagers to do bad things. And more often than not, they get caught. >> Yeah. Well, as you'd expect, because they're hardly professionals. So, uh, reading from the New York Times today, this is how it works. First, an anonymous user contacts kids over

[03:09] Telegram, WhatsApp, or a video game chat with an offer of some money. Once contact is made, handlers provide instructions. Sometimes the instructions are disguised as a geoloccation game. Uh, yes, we pay for photos here, says one ad, asking for location stamped pictures of police cars and ambulances. This is a quote from the ad. It's like Pokemon Go, but for money. Sometimes the methods can be darker than deceit. A 14-year-old Ukrainian girl was harassed

[03:39] by her Russian recruiters. They got access to her intimate photos, then threatened to post them online. >> Exactly. >> Became a sabotur. >> And kids have committed suicide because of that, >> right? Aside from this kind of aside from the war. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's it's it's rampant actually. I mean, when this started, um, you know, my kid, uh, was of that age. He was a, he was a high school kid, and I had to sit down with him and say, "Listen, if anything like that ever happens, you have to know, you know, I'll be there for you.

[04:10] Don't be embarrassed." Like, you know, I I I won't give a [ __ ] except I'll want to kill the people who are doing that to you. >> I'm not going to be upset with you. Parents really need to to to talk to their kids about this. >> Amen to that. Yeah. This is this is shame on both Russia and Ukraine for doing something like this. Kids are so easily exploited. Um their brains aren't fully formed. They think that uh that a

[04:40] couple of bucks like this is a lot of money and they don't process the notion that that they're probably going to get caught. And if they're if they're caught, it's going to cause no end of of legal problems. Yeah, this is a real shame. >> I mean, okay. So, I mean, in the interest of I mean, I think there's a difference, but John, um, you know, during World War II, resistance organizations >> in like, you know, Greece and France, you know, our our our native lands,

[05:12] they they used a lot of teenagers to do Yeah. >> conduct resistance activities and some and a bunch of them were caught by the Nazis and tortured and executed. >> Yeah. Yeah. Is I mean, you know, I guess the question that like the Russian and Ukrainian intelligence services might ask is how is this any different? >> I mean, I think it's different. >> I think it's different. You know, if your survival is on the line, that's one thing. Um, >> and if you volunteer, right, I think I

[05:43] think the >> volunteer. I mean, I think the difference is like I don't think the French resistance or the Greek resistance were running around basically uh you know, blackmailing kids with nude photos of themselves. They did not >> to say like, "Hey, join fight the Nazis or else." I mean, they were these were patriotic young people who hated the Germans and the invaders and they just wanted to to kick them out no matter what. >> That's exactly right. >> They were just patriots >> as long as you go in with your eyes open. You told this story yesterday

[06:14] about your grandfather. My grandmother did something similar and was and was caught and imprisoned by um by the quizzling government that was in uh Athens at the time. My grandfather bribed a prison guard with American magazines to let her go and they escaped to the United States. Um but yeah, like I said, kids can't process this kind of thing. They can't really they can't really consider um consider

[06:48] ideas of what might happen to them if they get caught. And it's just I think it's just very very dangerous. Very dangerous. >> Uh over on YouTube, Briel Definit says, which is bal is a great word. It's fog. Uh last last year, mostly Bulgarians were caught in Paris doing pro-Russian actions like smearing uh tags on on monuments. all said that they were recruited on Telegram. >> Wow. You see you see there. >> I mean, you know, at least that's just

[07:18] that's just graffiti. >> At least yes, there's that. It's not planting a bomb in front of a police station or or what have you. >> No, >> still. >> So, um abuse. >> No, it is I mean, you know, I mean, maybe what we need is an international I mean, I do think we need an international convent. We have an international convention against mines. Not everybody adheres to it, but it reduces the use of them enormously. The US is one of the worst offenders because we didn't sign that treaty.

[07:48] >> That's right. >> I think we need one against um drone warfare. I don't know how you feel about that. >> Oh my god. Amen. And you know what's what makes that even more important and more immediate is the fact that drone drone warfare is the future. >> Oh yeah. >> And it's going in terrible. Yeah. It's the present there. It's the present in Somalia, >> you know. We've drone the [ __ ] out of people in Somalia. It doesn't even make the papers, >> you know, and I I interviewed Bernie Sanders for my uh when I wrote that

[08:19] biography of him and I asked him about this and I was really surprised, you know. I said, "How do you feel about he said killing's killing? You know, who cares if you use a drone or a or you shoot the person in the head?" And I was like, "The difference is that it's frictionless. You don't even risk a single one of your citizens to do this. You just literally push a button and sit in a trailer in Nevada and watch someone blow up. And I think it's too easy. >> And speaking of sitting in a trailer in

[08:50] Nevada, I I hope that our viewers and listeners know the name Daniel Hail. I think Daniel Hail is is a a an especially heroic whistleblower. who went to prison for four and a half years after blowing the whistle on the drone program. He tells a terrible story that that is worthy of repeating here. He was in this trailer in Nevada on an

[09:21] air base in Nevada operating like a video game. The toggles for a drone >> and the drone is over Afghanistan and his boss is at McDilla Air Force Base in Florida. >> They're both looking at the screen. >> They see they see the target and his boss says, "Fire." And Daniel says, "I can't fire. There are two little kids with him." And his boss says, "Those aren't kids. Those are goats." And he said, "I'm telling you, I'm looking at

[09:52] them and they're kids." And the guy says, "Fire or be uh court marshaled." >> What the? >> And so he fires and he killed a 9-year-old girl and a 12year-old girl. And he said that he went home that night and he told his roommate, "I became a child killer today." And that's when he decided to blow the whistle. And of course, what happened to him? He's arrested. He's charged with multiple counts of espionage. And um

[10:24] >> what a joke. >> Goes through the whole process. He was extraordinarily brave by refusing to take a plea deal and he went to trial. I happened to be at his sentencing. And I went with Tom Drake. And um Daniel Hail, you know, Daniel, if you if you ask Daniel about it, Daniel will say, "Oh, I'm I'm weak. I'm soft. I buckled. I'm this. I'm that." This guy is a hero. Bona American hero who sacrificed

[10:56] literally everything in his life so that the American people could have the truth about the drone program. I said to him afterwards, he he was suicidal and I said to him, "It's not as bad as you think it is." I said, "You're going to get 15% off for good behavior. You're going to get 6 to 12 months home confinement. And if you tell them that you're an alcoholic or a drug addict, they'll put you in something called ARDAP, the residential drug and alcohol

[11:28] program and you get 12 months off your sentence if you just go to the classes. So he got out of prison, I don't know, year, year and a half ago. He was on Twitter for a minute and I was like, "Oh my god, Daniel Hail, welcome home. American hero Daniel Hail." A week later, he had shut down his Twitter account and he's disappeared. And all of my friends are like, "Have you heard from Daniel?" No, nobody's heard from Daniel. I don't know what happened to him, but anyway, a

[12:00] long way of saying if you kill people by drone, it's the same as walking up to them and shooting them in the head. It doesn't make it easier, >> you know. And in fact, um, >> might make it worse. Yeah, rebellious rainbow unicorn says shooting other people in in others in person risks PTSD. Some thinks that's why the Nazis made gas chambers. Too many Nazis went nuts from killing people in person. And that's true. They did have problems with uh Germans uh lo kind of losing their

[12:33] minds when they were shooting people in those pits in Poland and uh in Western Russia. But they also and they, you know, they tried to get them drunk on schnaps and and they tried to do that. I think, you know, I I think they came up with the gas chambers. It's just because it was they're German. It was more efficient. They wanted bigger numbers. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> They I don't >> But I don't But Go ahead. >> Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry. No, I mean I just think that the problem the problem with drone warfare is even if you accept the idea that we should be assassinating

[13:04] people on the other side of the world, which I don't. But let's just say that you accept that. At least if you send a sniper or someone out there to get an eye, you know, draw an eye. The story you told, John, it illustrates the point. There's no way that a pilot at 10,000 feet, no matter how high resolution their their lens is, or a drone, no matter how, you know, even if it can read read the the date on a penny on the ground, there's no way it can see what's going on. It's just too far away.

[13:36] The angle's not right. And drones [ __ ] up over and over. There was some study >> during the uh the wars in Was you know like well you when you were at the agency uh you know after 9/11 >> the drone attacks in Wazeristan and it's hard to get good numbers but the the the guesstimate was that 50 uh out of basically 49 out of 50 victims of drone attacks in uh western Pakistan were innocent victims and uh you know either they were misargeted or they were just

[14:07] like in the wrong place at the wrong time when the drone drone blew the Hellfire missile blew up someone else. Ted, I had coffee an hour ago with a British human rights um attorney uh Clive Smith and he is representing Afia Sadiki, which is a different story, but we had this same conversation, the same exact conversation that you're talking about right now where I well I said to him when he when he raised the issue of

[14:38] of using drones in Afghanistan, I said, "You don't have any idea A how many how many weddings we droned just because there was a tall guy wearing white. >> Yes. >> Right. I mean that was that was >> or a black or a black turban under the doctrine that tal Talibes always wore black turbans did a lot of other people >> and and then we would have to you know send a million dollars and and ask the

[15:08] government to you know spread the million around to the family and then we would do it again and again and again and again and sometimes we would blow up a a wedding on purpose because there was some senior Tylib there and then we would blow up his funeral and kill everybody that went to the funeral. >> Right. >> Well, listen, >> the double tap strike, >> 99% plus of those people were just innocent civilians, you know, local villagers,

[15:40] relatives, you know, whatever. If if I had a relative If I had a relative who, let's say, was involved in crime or whatever, okay, he's a he's a relative of mine and he dies, I'm going to go to his funeral. Does that mean I deserve to be blown up, too? Of course not. >> No, it's outrageous. >> No, it's absurd. >> Uh, hey, John. Question for you from Gasimos Katz. Uh, off topic, but can you give Greeks your honest opinion on

[16:10] Kimberly Gilfoil as US ambassador to Greece? >> See, now you put me on the spot there. Uh, yes, I'll give you. But first, before before these comments uh pass us, I want to say thank you VM very much. Thank you Sodon. Thank you Angela. And thank you Marble. Honest to God, we we couldn't do this without you. So, thank you very very much. >> So true. >> And we're going to come back to your questions in a second. >> Yeah, we will. >> Uh Kimberly Gilfoil.

[16:45] >> I don't even know what to say. >> You know what? You could just say pass. >> No, I want to be honest. I I have never been a Kimberly Gilfoil fan. And And the reason why she got an ambassadorship, any ambassadorship, is because Donald Trump Jr. broke up with her and they didn't want her around to cause trouble in his next relationship. It's the sad truth and so they decided, ah, we'll we'll give her a an ambassadorship and she'll be out for the next three years, right?

[17:17] >> Sure. >> This is Saddam Hussein used to do this. If there was anybody that was particularly popular, especially if they were a military officer, if you became a general and you were you made some real wins on the battlefield against the Iranians, Saddam's going to be afraid of you that you're going to try to overthrow him and make yourself president. So, he made you ambassador to the Philippines, >> right? Send get you out of the way. I mean, it's what the military does. Like my my, you know, my father was in the Air Force. He would say like, "Oh, they just if you're a pain in the ass, they

[17:49] just promote you to the other side of the world or the other side of the country." >> Exactly. So, they they gave Kimberly Gilfoil this job just to get her out. Now, it just happened to be in Greece. Okay. And as a Greek American, as a Greek, I'm a Greek citizen, I thought, "Oh, this this is not going to be good there. This is not going to be good." Um, Greece has had a a long string of of popular ambassadors

[18:21] going back to and not including Nicholas Burns, but everybody who came after Nick Burns, everybody hate even those of us who worked for Nick Burns hated Nick Burns, but there have been a lot of really good American ambassadors. George Tunis, a very important Greek American businessman being the most recent. I mean, it's a pretty sweet assignment in terms of Athens. >> Oh, yeah. And the ambassador's residence is magnificent. >> Yeah.

[18:51] >> So, I've watched Kimberly Gilfoil very closely as she has gone through the process, not just her Senate hearings, although I watched those as well. I watched every interview that she has given. And I got to give her credit. She has tried so hard to come down positively in the eyes of the Greeks. She has said all the right things. And you know people like I I subscribe to um

[19:21] to Kathyini the the daily newspaper and also to ethnic the the English version of ethnicoskidas. It's a national herald. It's the the big English language Greek American newspaper. And you know, people are [ __ ] all over her. This is a terrible appointment. She only got it because she was close to Trump. But the truth is that that she's an attorney. She's a former um assistant US attorney. She does have the ear of

[19:51] the president whether she's in the inner circle or not anymore. And she's not. But she's not an idiot. Um she's also very much a political animal. You remember before she started dating uh uh Donald Trump Jr., she was with Nuome. >> She was married to >> She was married to to Gavin Newsome. >> So weird. >> She had too much work done. And I think that's a big part of the problem. >> I agree with you. But she she's not stupid. She's very politically savvy.

[20:22] It's only going to be three years. We could have done worse. We could have had Nick Burns come back, god forbid. And um you know there just as an aside there used to be there may be still still be a newspaper called Pondiki which means little mouse right and it was a it was a a left-wing um satirical newspaper. >> I love those. Oh like like in French >> exactly right. In fact they might be like sister papers. >> Okay. So, they had a photoshopped

[20:56] picture once of of a nude Ambassador Burns on his hands and knees >> with a dog collar on. >> How come I don't get to work for publications like >> I know, right? >> If I ever get if I ever run into exile to France, I'm going straight to Lana. And >> well, and the and the minister of education, Vaso Papandreo, who I never liked. I never could stand her. She has a whip and she's beating him in the on his naked butt uh with a with a whip

[21:28] while she's got him by the dog collar. He was so angry he lodged an official protest. It's like dude, it's a satirical newspaper and what you never heard of freedom of speech and freedom of the press. So we all went out and bought these newspapers. It was the It was the back cover of the paper that day and all of us taped them up in front of our desks. He didn't have access to the station because he was the ambassador. He's not a station employee. So, he never saw it.

[21:58] But, and I'm not confirming or denying the existence of a station in Athens. I'm just saying, of course, >> that's where I that's where I put up my my thing. So, anyway, I think this could be >> we've got some questions to answer here from people who have kindly paid VM. Thank you so much for the 50 heroes. Appreciate it. Avid fan, don't miss a day. >> We um like our thoughts on Belgian Well, this will be your thoughts on Belgian intelligence at some point if you have any. >> Yeah. You know what? >> I won't make any jokes about how Belgian

[22:29] intelligence is an oxymoron, but >> I do have to tell you a Belgian story. It's not about intelligence, but you'll it just reminds me of this. Some You know, I love stories about incredibly stupid people. Um my ex-wife and I were on a bullet train from Paris to um Amsterdam and it goes through Brussels. It goes through the Netherlands and these two like douchebag like sort of bros like 22 23 years old get on with big duffles and uh and they leave them in the in the middle of the aisle where

[22:59] people are trying to walk. The several times the conductor comes by and tells them to uh you know in in in Flemish or whatever like get that [ __ ] out of the out of there. Um, and each time, uh, they, you know, they they they they pull them out and then as soon as the guy's gone, they put them back into the aisle. This happens a number of times and, you know, the guy's getting the the conductors getting more and more angry. Finally, he's had enough. The the train stops and some policemen come on with with the uh with the um conductor. He

[23:32] points it to the two guys. The the cops confront them. They open the bags and they're full of weapons. Full of guns. Big guns. And I'm like, I'm like, come on. >> And I'm like, you you couldn't keep them on your lap. They were They're gun like put them on your lap. They're gun They're like douchy gun runners. I was like, [ __ ] Belgians. Anyway, what do you think about Belgian intelligence? >> This is one of those it's a small world

[24:02] stories. So, when I was a senior in high school, um we had a foreign exchange student from Brussels, Pete Jambone. And Pete and I are still like close buddies. Uh he comes back to the States just about every year and we're all like in each other's weddings and we're godfathers to each other's kids. Pete and and my three other closest friends. Um, Pete went into private business,

[24:33] became very wealthy. His brother went into government and became the director of the Belgian intelligence service. >> So, the last time he was here in the States, we met up in Atlanta to go to another one of our best friends son's wedding. And um, I said, "So, how's your brother doing in uh, in this intel director slot?" And he said, "Oh, they made him intel director and deputy prime minister. It's the craziest thing." I said, "Oh my god, well, how's he how's he fitting in with intelligence?" And he

[25:05] said, "You know, I never I never realized that my brother had a hatred for Arabs." And I'm like, "What? You guys don't hate anybody." And he says, "So every time I call him on it," he said, "Oh, you don't see what I see. If you could see what I see, I said, "Oh, Pete, I hear that all the time." Well, if you had access to what I have access to, you'd want to kill everybody. Well, no. I I used to have access to what you had access to and I never wanted to kill anybody. But um but

[25:36] the Belgians are very good when it comes to Arabs >> and they pretty much ignore everything else. It's all about the Arabs. >> Huh. They're panicked at the idea that that the Palestinian refugees, for example, there are a lot of Palestinian refugees in in Belgium >> might be terrorist. >> Yeah. Right. They might be terrorists. They might >> You remember France had that spate of PLO bombings uh and other like Islamic

[26:06] jihad bombings in Absolutely. Like they got rid of all the trash cans and mailboxes. >> Yeah. Just like we did. >> Did Belgium have the same issue? >> Yes. Oh, yeah. Reed makes a great point. I totally forgot about that. Fa season 4 was filmed in Belg in Belgium. That's exactly right. It was. >> And and then Reed remembered this too. She also is asking I'm assume she's a she. Wasn't Gilfoil accused of sexually harassing a male intern when she worked at Fox? I seem to remember that.

[26:38] >> I think I do too. >> Yeah, >> I think I do too. I don't remember what the what the final result was, but yeah, I do remember that. >> Yeah, >> saucy. >> Hell yeah. >> Spicy. Uh, okay. So then, all right, Sodom, thanks for the 20 bucks. Hey, John and Ted, can you >> can you please give us some insight as to why the Brits allowed China to build its huge embassy near the financial district and has sublevel fiber optics?

[27:10] Should the UK and the US be concerned? It's a huge complex. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, you you know the story about the American embassy in Moscow and the Russian embassy in Washington. They were both built around the same time. The the deal was struck in the 1970s that both uh countries would build new embassies. And so we told the Russians, go ahead and find a plot and a plot of land and go ahead and pick what you want. So they went to literally the highest point in Washington.

[27:42] >> See, I wonder why they they just wanted to get channel 2 and channel 7 good reception. >> Yeah. And oh, by the way, you can also see the White House and the Pentagon from up there >> and signals intelligence, right? Like >> and signals intelligence is wonderful. The Russians allowed us to purchase a dry riverbed in Moscow that was actually in this in this culvert in the middle of Russia. And we

[28:14] ended up having to tear the new embassy down because the Russians had put listening devices in literally every beam and every 2x4 in the entire embassy. Just pulling the wires out of it would have made the building collapse. So we would not allow them to occupy their new embassy, which is way up at the top of Wisconsin Avenue, just immediately south of the National Cathedral. You could see the Russian embassy from everywhere in Washington. It's

[28:44] >> I love these I love these shenanigans though. Um I had a college girlfriend. She was a diplomatic brat and she was she she grew up um at the um she spent quite a few years at the American embassy in Moscow uh during the I guess this would have been in the 70s ' 80s and she said that there were always shenanigans like all of the staff all the cleaning people they were all KGB no question about it constantly there were fires all the time and so it would be like there's a fire everyone has to leave the and you knew the firefighters

[29:15] were all KGB and they were all going in there and planting bugs. Everything had to be swept over and over and over. They knew they weren't catching them all. Um and they also were really concerned about cancer, right? Because >> Oh, yeah. They were beaming They were beaming microwaves at the embassy and people were all getting cancer >> because when you Yeah. Because what you correct me if I'm wrong, my understanding is if you talk inside a room then the vi you can pick up the vibration off the glass in the window. >> Off the glass of the windows. Exactly.

[29:45] Right. And so the microwaves like allow you to hear what's going on inside. >> You know, Ted, when I was living in Bahrain, Bahrain, which is like joined at the hip with the United States, uh, defense and foreign policy wise, I was the human rights officer in Bahrain. One night I'm laying in bed with my wife and I'm reading a book and it was really, really hot. I had no shirt on. So I'm reading a book and this thing falls onto my chest. I'm like, "What the [ __ ] is

[30:15] this?" So, I look up. The the air conditioning vent is directly above me. I I pick this thing up. It's clearly a bug. It has wires sticking out of it. There's a little battery, a little watch battery on it. >> So, I put it in a Ziploc bag. And the next day I took it into the embassy and uh and I took it to my chief

[30:47] and he looks at it. He's holding it up. He goes, "Yep, it's a bug." All right. And I said, "Well, now what am I supposed to do?" I said, "My wife almost never leaves the house, but she must have gone grocery shopping or something or took our son to the park or whatever." And they immediately went in and planted this bug in the bedroom, no less. In the bedroom. >> That's Yeah, that's bad. >> And And my wife was a ballet teacher. She wasn't a She wasn't a CIA officer. I would never ever discuss anything with

[31:17] her because she wasn't cleared. >> Sure. >> And he said, "It's cuz you're writing that damn human rights report." He said, "They don't like you one bit." And then I'll tell you what the Bahinis used to do is whenever your tour was up, you know, we're not allowed to accept any gift worth more than $25. So whenever your tour was up, they would send everybody a Rolex and then you had to report it to the Treasury Department and you could either um just turn it over or you could turn

[31:49] it over and bid on it and buy it back from the Treasury Department. Hm. >> I was the only one in the entire embassy that didn't get a Rolex when I left. I didn't even get a, you know, thank you. Come again. Nothing. >> They hated you. >> They hated me. >> Well, we're all judged by >> I would go into our enemies. >> Oh my god. And I would go into the Minister of Interior's office and I'd say, "Your highness, you cannot just pick up a 15-year-old kid off the street for marching in a pro-democracy demonstration, beat him to death, and

[32:21] then call his parents to come and pick up the body. You can't do that. I have to report that to Congress, and it's going to jeopardize the sale of uh of weapons to Bahrain." I said, "Back off." >> Angela, thanks for the donation. Marble, I love this question. Can someone please explain how w how Laura Loomer is so influential? Hey, uh if >> what a mystery. >> Yeah, seriously. Um >> I don't know if someone has the answer.

[32:51] I I honestly don't know. >> Listen, Laura Loomer, we have a mutual friend and I said I said to the mutual friend, I said, "Why do you even associate with somebody like Laura Loomer? First of all, she's the only person I've ever heard of that's banned by Uber, by Lyft, and by Target for for hate speech. Seriously, >> she's going to charge. >> No, she can't go. She's not welcome there. She's not welcome there. And I I

[33:24] was like, how can you be friends with somebody like that? Oh, no. She's misunderstood. No, she's very well understood. That's the issue here. So, she ran for Congress in it was either 202 or 2020, I can't remember, in Donald Trump's home district of Palm Beach and she got 24%. So even Republicans realize that she is nuts and she is so far to the right as to be unhinged,

[33:57] but she has this inexplicable influence over the president of the United States. I don't understand it. >> Yeah. I mean, maybe she made some appearance on Fox that impressed him one time or could >> something like that. It's often like that. Um, John Star Lion's asking, >> "Yeah, >> I thought you were really connected with Bahraini royalty." >> So, is that true? >> Why, if that's true, why would the security service still treat you like crap? >> The crown prince and I still still like

[34:29] text each other jokes and stuff. >> I just heard from him on Saturday, as a matter of fact, but when I was in Bahrain, the director of the Bahraini Intelligence Service was named General Ian Henderson. General Ian Henderson, who was the British colonialist who put down the Mao Rebellion >> in Rhdesia. Yeah. >> And did everything he could to keep

[35:00] black Rhodesians out of power until he just had to flee and couldn't, you know, hold them off anymore. went to Bahrain and they said, "Hey, can you set up an intelligence service for us?" >> So Ian Anderson, he was he was the worst kind of colonial Brit to the point where even the Bahinis were afraid of him. And I'll tell you another thing, George HW Bush came to Bahrain when I was there and the Amir had a gigantic dinner for him. So the

[35:32] crown prince asked that I be seated at his table. So we're sitting there, we're laughing. I was young at the time. I was I was how old was I when I went to Bahrain? I was 29. And um so we're laughing and joking and I said I said, "Who's the corpse over here at this other table?" And he turns and he says, "Seriously?" And I said, "Yeah, it's like this 80-year-old man literally wearing a brown leisure suit, right, with the the loud flower shirt underneath and the big wide collar with

[36:03] the wide lapels from the 70s." I said, "Yeah." I said, "Who's the stiff And he says, "That's that's General Henderson." And I go, "That's Ian Henderson." I said, "He looks like he crawled right out of the 70s." He's like, "Yeah, you know what? We we don't talk about General Henderson." So even this is a guy who who is at the time he was the air presumptive because his grandfather was the Amir and his father was the crown prince. Now he's the crown prince. But even the air presumptive

[36:34] was afraid of Ian Henderson to the point where he didn't even want to speak the man's name. >> Wow. >> Love that. >> Well, I I'm dying to get your thoughts about this uh war games thing. So, um there's this uh article that came out in Politico about the a AI doomsday machine. Basically the argument is that uh you have to have autonomous warfare self autonomous weapons in other words weapons that choose their own targets

[37:05] using AI are the future there's no way to ignore it got to do it if we don't do it the Chinese will do it the Russians will do it we have to we have to keep up DARPA is of course the big research arm of the Pentagon they're keeping up so anyway uh the problem that they're that they're finding is that chat GBT and other AI models uh tend when fa when faced with a dilemma, a military dilemma or situation or a crisis, they tend to escalate rather

[37:36] than deescalate. And so obviously, you know, you don't have to have seen the Terminator a million times like I have to know how this works out. I have a theory as to why this is true, John, but I want to hear yours first. >> You want to hear mine first, Ted? This is Black Mirror come to life. >> Mhm. >> It really is uh the future. I hate to say it and it scares the hell out of me. Um you know those robot dogs, that episode of Black Mirror where the robot those are real and they even look like

[38:07] that. >> Yeah, they look dogs. Once DARPA can perfect a battery that has a a long enough life that we can attach it to a robot to go fight our wars, everything changes because we're very quickly getting to a point where the ultimate goal is to not send human beings into battle. on our side. It's to send robots, robot dogs, drones, all

[38:38] powered by AI to fight our wars, you know, without having to spend or to ex expend a single life. Let me add one thing. Many of you know that I'm a a huge fan of really bad 60s and 70s television. I just I'm addicted to it. Right now, I've got over here Dragnet uh in my queue. I have Dragnet, Adam 12, and Star Trek. >> 12, one, Adam 12, >> only the original Star Trek. Well, there is a Star Trek episode that is apppropo

[39:10] of this conversation. They go to this planet. Kirk and Spock go to this planet and uh they hate the people on the next planet, right? These planets are really close together. They hate these people on this next planet. So, one of them calls and says the one planet called planet A calls planet B and they said, "Okay, listen. We're launching an attack on you guys." So, uh, here it comes. [Music] Okay, it impacted at such and such a

[39:41] coordinate. And then planet B says, "Oh crap. Okay, you killed 3,500 people." But they didn't really. what they were doing was these computer games, computer exercises. So then if the computer says, "Well, yeah, that that was a direct hit. It killed 35 people." They would send 35 people to these death chambers to be to be put to death. But that way you didn't have to keep rebuilding all the buildings. >> Mhm. And then they would launch a

[40:13] counteratt attack and oh we killed 10,000 people in the counterattack so now you have to send 10,000 people. >> It's a simulation basically. We really do kill the people after the fact. This crazy thing is that's history. >> Well in ancient history I don't remember if it's the Assyrians or the Hittites or both but they they kind of got to the point where they were tired of destroying each other's cities. And so this they would do this a similar thing where they would line up the armies um side by side and then basically the

[40:44] equivalent of a military CPA would count all the men and all the weapons and assess their training and they would negotiate and they'd say, "Okay, in this battle um the Hittites would have won. So therefore you we're nobody's going to kill anyone. we're all going to go home to our wives and kids, but we're going to um seed this amount of territory or this amount of money or whatever. Uh and that's how they used to do it. And it sounds civilized, I guess. But so, John, here's my theory. I I'm really dying to

[41:14] hear what you think. So, my theory is chat GPT, Grock, all these uh Google AI, they're all trained by illegally scraping everything they can from the internet. Basically, they have spiders and bots everywhere. And so, they're getting basically the entire internet. Well, what's the internet? It's the expression of our political and other culture. And our culture is always escalatory, whether it's in war or

[41:45] whether it's in culture, you know? I mean, just think about like even in relationships if someone's like, "Oh, like my husband forgot my anniversary. Oh, divorce. [ __ ] him. divorce him. Everything is always like goes to 11. Our culture, I mean, think about when there's a military, a foreign crisis. When's the last time you watched CNN or MSNBC and there was one single member of the panel who said, you know, maybe the US shouldn't be involved. It's not really our business. Or we should try to

[42:16] negotiate peace. We should we should go and and and like we really need to be peace. I've ne I'm 62 years old and I have never wa in watching tens of thousands of hours of cable to news television ever heard a single person who said this is not our business or really we should try to be we should deescalate this situation. So I think the what's all that's happening is that the is that the bots are trained on an escalatory culture. So of course they

[42:47] [ __ ] escalate everything. >> Of course they do. And why is it that we've not yet been able to put together intellectually the fact that they are automatically escalatory and they are convincing teenagers to kill themselves. >> And number three, that's a problem. And then taken in combination, it's going to be a very big problem. >> I say all the time, and I say it only half jokingly, Ted, >> I saw iRoot. I saw what happened when

[43:19] the blue light turns red and I'm not looking forward to it. >> No, it's not. >> And you know that that's where we're headed. >> And that's the thing is, right, we we put every I mean, you wonder why we have so much mental illness in our society, right? I mean, we pour on the pressure. Just think about every single day, even if you're doing everything right, you know, you'll get that notice like, oh, you know, disconnection notice if you don't send in your, you know, your payment right away, we're going to turn off your power. instead of like, "Hey, by the way, you're running a little

[43:49] late, dude. Like, don't forget to send in your they that's never how it is, right? Everything is like in America, you know, you're a hammer. Everything looks like a nail." That's that's what it is. And the people who run the country are no different. >> That is absolutely right. >> So, all right. Well, I'm glad you like my theory. >> I was pretty proud of it. And I was like, I'm with you. >> I was like, I think I I think I've got this. Um, let's talk about your good friend, the walrus. I am the walrus. I am the empire. >> Yeah, the walrus.

[44:20] >> Mr. Bolton. Yeah. >> Um, so he got raided a couple weeks ago, August 22nd. Um, and now we kind of know what it was all about. They grabbed the feds grabbed three computers, two iPhones, bunch of old documents. Turns out that he apparently was sending a lot of classified information to family members. Um and um and that's where what this investigation is about. Uh he's basically uh I think he's in trouble,

[44:52] right? I mean I mean it sounds like he legitimately did some illegal stuff. >> That is literally the definition of espionage in the Espionage Act. Remember the definition of espionage was kind of mainstreamed in my case. It set a precedent. It is providing national defense information to any person not entitled to receive it. There it is. And I'm looking here. Uh, the feds raided

[45:23] Bolton's Bethesda home in Washington DC office as part of an investigation into allegations that he snuck national security files out of the White House during President Trump's first term by emailing them to family members on a private server. And that's all according to the FBI. >> By the way, is is John Bolton stupid? I mean, I know he's not like very smart when it comes to foreign policy. >> Arrogant. He's arrogant is what it is. This is arrogance. Edward Snowden used thumb drives, right?

[45:54] >> Yeah, that's right. >> It's also a lot faster. >> I mean I mean you can find out, right? You you can learn if if data has been taken that way, but it just seems But if you're doing it by email, I mean it's going to go through a server. It's going to be known, right? Isn't I mean that goes through a server that >> that is monitored. I mean it's impossible that it won't be known and known soon. >> Well, there the FBI is saying this too. in addition to um to taking all of his electronics, they

[46:25] took everything, which they normally do. Um in fact, on the back of my computer that I'm talking to you through, I still have an FBI sticker on the back that says evidence on it that at first I couldn't get it off and now I just I keep it just as a souvenir. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. I thought so, too. But it says the FBI also confiscated two USB drives, a hard drive, four boxes marked printed daily activities, typed documents in folders labeled Trump

[46:56] 1 through 4, and a white binder labeled statements and reflections to Allied strikes. Uh, and it goes on to say that the warrant specifically accuses him of violating two different sections of the Espionage Act. So yeah, this is real. He's in real trouble. >> So you think he's just you think he took the Do you think he sent the stuff to his family to brag or just to get it just to get it to himself and thought that he wouldn't get caught? He was This

[47:27] is for his memoir is what I I would >> Exactly. Exactly. This is for his memoir. And I think he probably did it just to make it easier for him to access later. I I don't think he listen. >> By the way, if I were gonna do this, and I this is not advice to anyone, but if I were going to do this, I would take screenshots with my phone of the of my computer screen, right? And that's just what I would do. And then I could toss the phone later. >> Although Although that's how they caught uh Oh, the FBI whistleblower from

[47:59] Minneapolis. His name escapes me. >> Yeah. But couldn't you? >> That's exactly. >> But I mean you But if you let's just say the phone's not attached to the internet, you can turn it off, right? >> Yeah. >> You just have You just use us as a camera. I mean, hell, just bring a camera. >> Bring a camera. Yes. >> I mean, old school like the little >> See, but but this is that arrogance that we would expect from somebody like John Bolton. >> Also, he's old the internet that well. >> Yeah, he's actually and he's not looking good at all. He looks really worn out. Yeah, he does look he

[48:31] does not look the same. Um, I guess you probably have some sense of what that's like when you go when you go through something like that. Star Lion's asking if you ever got a chance to to work with John Perry Barlo, co-founder of the EFF, the Electronic Frontier Foundation. >> No, I've spoken to him a couple of times, but I never had a chance to to work with him. Um, you know, I've been told for that for whatever reason I'm not the most popular person at the EFF. I don't know

[49:02] why because I always liked and respected them, but I >> you know what that's that's how it was for me. I found out the same thing about me. I had every first amendment organization in the United States on my side um sending amicus briefs against the LA Times, which is saying something because they're a newspaper and normally they, you know, they would be on their side. But what but the two big exceptions were the EFF um who said, you know, you're not popular here and uh the ACLU of Southern California

[49:33] >> totally because they had a deal with the LA Times, but the ACLU national would have been on my side, but the ACLU makes their decisions regionally. So, a member of the board of the ACLU resigned in protest of the ACLU not making a statement in support of me during my trial. And um I got a letter. >> They're [ __ ] >> Oh, tell me about it. Not as big a bunch of [ __ ] as uh Amnesty International is. >> So Amnesty International

[50:05] >> refused to say a single word in support of me in my darkest days of 2012. This this was Amnesty International London, the the headquarters. So, the head of of Amnesty International United States, a guy named Zeke, uh I think his last name was Johnson. Awesome guy. He wrote me a letter when I was in prison apologizing for his bosses in London. And then he bought me a subscription to The New

[50:36] Yorker to kind of, you know, dull the pain, I guess. But it was only later when I was getting out of prison that Iwei Weii, the Chinese uh artist, he wanted to do my portrait for this show at uh at Alcatraz. He he he made 178 portraits out of Legos of 178 political prisoners around the world. And so he wanted to clear the names with Amnesty International first. And Amnesty said, "Oh, we don't believe Kiryaku is a

[51:06] political prisoner." and he said, "Oh, I know Kiryaku. I'm telling you, he is a political prisoner." And so they finally agreed. And it was the week that I got out of prison that Amnesty International finally said, "Okay, okay, you were a political prisoner." But they had to be, you know, pulled kicking and screaming uh to to that point of view. They were really >> And sometimes it is like that. Yeah.

[51:37] when you're when when you're fighting for your life and you're making calls to these groups and you know it's amazing. You kind of think like I mean some of them it was a mixed bag. I ended up with eight amicus briefs. Um but like uh you know some of them came through like just great. Then others you know you're literally like are you [ __ ] serious? You're really not going to side with me? Really? Like you know what they did? And they're like >> yeah. And it's like but that's what you're for. That's the purpose. That's That's why you get donations. I mean,

[52:08] including I used to donate to the ACLU. They had a cartoon auction every year. Always used to spend a cartoon. I'm like, "Thanks a lot, [ __ ] No more no more cartoons from me." >> Unbelievable, these people. And you know, somebody told me the other day, there's a very there's a very prominent uh uh attorney here in uh um here in Washington, very prominent. And uh a mutual friend told me, "You know, he doesn't think you're a whistleblower." And I said, "But isn't

[52:40] it wonderful to be at a point in my life where I don't give a [ __ ] what he thinks about me?" >> That is nice. >> Yeah. I mean, it's Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I went through Yeah. I mean, you know, when you interview me, I'll get into all the nuts and bolts of the uh By the way, for people who are we're now on we've now dropped uh we're dropping hour three of the my interview with John uh for Rumble Premium and it's great. We're going to do probably two more hours and then we'll do mine. But when we do mine,

[53:12] it's like when you hear it like sort of, you know, the way this all went down and like it was kind of like but you kind of have to believe me because it's been proven. >> Exactly. it was proven by science and then it's like well I don't know like it's like there were there were still some people there's a I mean seriously there's a there's a cartoonist who um shall remain nameless except that he's was the cartoonist at the Salt Lake City paper for many many years and probably still is um and he would and he was

[53:43] telling my friend Scott Standis like I don't know I think Ted faked that evidence it's like why you think so you think Ted has the power of like a major like espionage agency to to fake to break into the LAPD vault, alter their evidence, and then use it to exonerate himself. Like, if that if I had that power, I wouldn't be here doing podcasts and drawing cartoons, >> you know? Absurd. But people believe what they want to believe. >> Oh my god.

[54:14] >> Anyway, yeah, I know it's depressing, but you know, it is nice to get to the point where you just don't care. Uh, oh yeah, let's talk about Reed, by the way. Uh, Reed's a dude. My apologies. Um, >> yeah. >> Uh, Fel Federman going through a serious mental health crisis. I mean, still. >> Um, I guess it's getting worse. I can't believe that guy is still in the Senate. I mean, John, you're from Pennsylvania. How do you feel about that? I think it's a [ __ ] I think it's atrocious. >> It's a It's a travesty, and I'm furious about it. Although, I'll tell you why

[54:46] he's still in the Senate. because he has maintained the strong support of organized labor. He hasn't budged on his support for organized labor and he has become what Republicans are now calling Donald Trump's favorite Democrat. And in a state like Pennsylvania, which goes, you know, back and forth and back and forth between the two parties, that's the position you want to be in. So people like you and I have zero

[55:17] respect for the guy. >> No. >> But they don't care what people like you and I think. The union members are going to vote for him and Republicans are going to vote for him and that's why he's able to do this. Now with that said, that question that you just put up on the screen, why is John Federman still in the Senate? That's the question. Because if he is mentally and emotionally unable to serve >> and apparently physically I mean he literally doesn't show up to votes.

[55:48] >> He doesn't talk and he doesn't uh interact with constituents. His staff I mean he can't keep any staff members because he's crazy and his staff run away. He's mean. He's mean. Yes. >> I told you I saw him at that Ohio State football game. He was like 10 rows in front of me and I kept shouting, "Fetterman, I want my 50 bucks back." And so he could hear his name, but I think because of the crowd, he he couldn't really hear what I was saying. So he would just turn around and go,

[56:20] "H boy, I hate that guy." >> No, I mean, he's he's such a dick. And I mean, you know, the funny part though is because he's he's become even more maniacally pro-Zionist. >> Oh, yeah. It's irrational. >> And that's kind of like kind of interesting, right? So maybe nowadays to be Zionist, you literally have to be insane. >> Yes. >> Yes, indeed. >> So, >> um, Matthew Blair Reigns has a good question and thank you for the 10

[56:51] pounds, Matthew. Why did or does the UK and France have such different approaches to their former colonies/mpire both with regards to military and intelligence actions? That's a great question. Um, I will say that the only thing the French really care about is they just don't want to be attacked by people who used to be from who are from what used to be colonies. So, they're happy to go to to, you know, the Sahel and and try to fight al-Qaeda, but

[57:23] otherwise they're they're willing to just get up and walk away. >> I think the French Yeah. The French po approach to postc colonialization has been like if there's a fire we'll come in with the French foreign legion and put it out >> and then we'll go home. >> Exactly. And the Brits don't want to do that. >> But the Brits had the commonwealth. >> Yeah. and and they so the the illusion here is that technically speaking, right, the king's face is still on the money in Canada and Australia and Bise and on the Bahamas and all over

[57:55] the all these places that are ostensibly independent. >> They just Yeah. They the Brits have trouble letting go. They want to think that they're still a colonial power. They think they want to still think that they run an empire. >> Yes. And I think that's part of the Brexit mentality, ironically, even though, you know, the people who voted for it probably weren't thinking like that at all. I think it's culture. Um, >> you know, I I think it's like the French I think the deal is like this. The French think that they that they have

[58:26] majesty because they're France and that like they and that they bestowed some of their majesty on their on their colonies. I think the Brits think that their majesty comes from having colonies. >> That's a good point. I could see that. That actually makes sense to me. Hey, big boss Bob Ross has a good question here. Why did the French help the genocidal Hoou government uh during the Rwanda genocide? I never understood a

[58:58] single aspect of that genocide. You know, there are there were hoous and and tootssis who were, you know, married into each other's families. >> Hoous living next door to tootssis for generations and and then like flipping a switch, they all started killing each other. I I just didn't understand it. Can you make heads or tails of this? >> Yeah. I mean, it was a defi It was a It was a classic divide and conquer strategy. Um and basically, you know, the whole idea that there's even such a

[59:28] thing as hoous and tootssis. was invented by the by the by the colonial powers. Um and and it was like basically it was a traditional approach to take a favored minority you know group and make put them in charge. Um you know kind of like uh I guess you could sort of say that was the model that the Brits pursued in in uh you know in in the in uh in Iraq and stuff like that. Um, so I think I think it was like, you know, support the minority. Uh, they will

[1:00:01] fight hard to oppress the majority, but the majority will be resentful and seething and they'll fight each other. You know, it's kind of like like Stalin when he when he drew the the borders of the Central Asian republics um >> and he put uh like 40% of Usuzbekistan was Taji, 40% of Tajikistan was Usuzbek. >> Wow. >> Um and it was like on purpose because he thought the Forgana Valley Muslims were crazy and would rebel against the the

[1:00:33] Soviet Union. And he wasn't really wrong about that. >> Wow. Yeah, he wasn't really wrong about that. >> But um you know, I mean, I'm we're we don't have all the times in the world here to to teach a class on postc colonialism, but u you know, I think that's that's sort of the the short version of that. >> Um what do we think of uh Ibraim? I don't even know who this is. I tror >> Oh, I know him. He's a young guy. He's a

[1:01:03] young military officer in Burkina Faso uh that took power I don't know two three four years ago. >> Yeah. >> From the French. >> Yeah. He well he overthrew the government >> and um and took power. He's he's become in my view increasingly irrational over the last couple of months. He first of all he took power. It's been at least three years now and there has been no transition back to democracy which he had promised at the outset. didn't happen. He's He's the dictator. The

[1:01:34] military dictator. >> That's what they always do. >> They always say that. >> Well, we will have an election as soon as things settle down. >> Yeah, exactly. But just recently, he did a couple he did a couple things um where he outlawed homosexuality. So, if you're gay, you risk 10 years in prison for being gay. And the other thing he did was um and I I read this I think it I think I saw in the BBC where he did away

[1:02:04] with the country's electoral commission. The Bkina I don't even know why I know this much about Bkina Faso but they have this permanent electoral commission and the job of the electoral commission is to plan each election. So every four years you have an election. It's you know these people that run the election. He scrapped it. Fired everybody. Got rid of everybody. He took personal control. Fire everyone. >> Fire everyone. You take over and um and there aren't going to be any

[1:02:36] elections. And then also recently, I don't remember where I saw this, but he started to expel foreigners like to expel it's a program now to expel all of the foreigners from Burkina Faso. It's I mean, Burkina Fasa was never a a garden uh spot, but um but man, it's getting worse and worse and worse. >> Military dictatorship always fun. Um

[1:03:06] so, all right. So, do we want to talk about Salt Typhoon or should we call it a night? >> Yeah, let's say something quickly about Salt Typhoon. Um, the Chinese are really good at uh at computer attacks. They're just really good. And they've got this unit within the Chinese intelligence service that only does cyber warfare. And they hit the jackpot with this thing, this salt typhoon, where they they hacked the information of literally

[1:03:38] every American. Now, there are a couple of outlets today and yesterday that were saying that that the real targets of this thing were Donald Trump and JD Vance, but then they thought, "Ah, no, we'll just cast a wide net and see how much success we can have." And they had complete success where they were able to collect data from every single American. They're good. and our defenses are not

[1:04:08] so good. >> So I guess at this point right I mean every sing it seems like every few months or weeks we wake up to you know some data breach like oh every single you know Target lost all of their credit card data uh Master Card lost all of your data. The dark web has everyone's social security numbers. China has everything. um you know you go and use a password somewhere uh and there it'll you'll be warned oh change your password this password is exists on the dark web.

[1:04:41] >> Yeah. >> I mean I think most people I don't think I'm alone just sort of just throw up their hands and they're like [ __ ] it. It's like there's no way to safeguard my data anyway. I I can't be bothered. You know if people want to steal my identity they can have it. Um it just seems like it's there's no resources. There's nothing really that it doesn't feel like there's anything you can even do about it. And John, I can't remember a single politician even giving a speech one time

[1:05:12] saying, "Hey, this is a major concern and we are we probably ought to have some committees and and talk about this stuff and do something about it." It's literally like it just happens in the paper and you read it and you're like, "Oh, okay." And there's no leadership whatsoever. >> Yeah, you're absolutely right. and Marble. Thanks again, Marble. Marble's got one other question. Uh John and Ted, why did Russia recognize the Taliban government? I've got a theory. >> Um the theory is they did it for a

[1:05:42] couple of reasons. One, to put Afghanistan finally behind them. Okay, that's nice. The real reason because the United States hasn't. And this is yet another opportunity for Russia or China for that matter to move in where the US has been too reluctant. Maybe negotiate a nice sweetheart deal on rare earth metals or on whatever establishing new trade relations,

[1:06:13] whatever. >> Uh we should have recognized the Taliban immediately. >> Couldn't hurt with bricks. I mean, if you're going to have >> Absolutely right. you want a good relationship, you know, if you want trade relations between Russia and India, it's the Silk Road. >> Yep. >> You know, >> that's right. >> The Taliban, one thing that they are able, they're very, very good at is providing security on the ground. Y >> and uh you know, trucks can make it across and make it into Usbekistsan or Turk Manosan and then onto Russia. >> Yes. >> No problem. And vice versa.

[1:06:44] >> Yes, indeed. That's right. >> Pipelines, oilines. Exactly. You know, I wrote an entire book about the Trans Afghanistan pipeline project that Bill Clinton uh and Unical tried to start in the mid 90s and uh you know that could be revived now. >> Yeah, that's right. >> I mean, the problem was that you could never run a pipeline across such a rustive place, you know, where tribesmen would be constantly threatening to blow it up. >> That's right. >> I think it's a good I think it's a good

[1:07:15] thing. I think honestly I think every honestly I got to tell you I don't think diplomatic uh recognition you tell me what you think. I don't even think it should be like one of those things that is like a reward or something. >> Totally agree. >> You should just every diplomatic relations with every other country. Period. >> Let the diplomats do what they're paid to do to carry out diplomacy. We should have relations with everybody. We really should. Everybody that wants relations with us. I mean because the truth is

[1:07:45] when we need to talk to people you know we end up talking to them anyway. Um right when I needed a visa to go to Iran we don't have diplomatic relations but they had a Iran had an interest section in the Pakistani embassy in in Washington and that's what my fixer went through to get it. Um and it's like so in other words you know the US has to talk to Iran sometimes they have to but this just make the lack of diplomatic relations just makes it harder for them to do their jobs. That's right. That's right. I'm proud to say, I've not said

[1:08:16] this publicly, but I'm going to say it now. I'm one of six people um who has been invited to meet with Iranian President Peshkian in New York when he arrives for the UN General Assembly. And I said I said yes. I >> didn't even ask what he wanted to talk about. So, um >> that's great. >> I'm I'm excited about it. Um >> do an interview. Why not? The worst that could happen is that he says no, >> right?

[1:08:47] >> Yeah, why not? >> Yeah, be great. Invite, please invite him. >> It's going to be exciting. Um I I heard back from them again today. They said that they don't yet have a date or a time, but there are six of us that he wants to talk to. Uh Medadia Benjamin is one. Uh Max Blumenthal is one. Andy Shal is one. Me and I don't know who the other two are. >> That's awesome. >> Yeah. I I Allah wants to know what does Afghanistan have in terms of natural resources in terms of raw materials. So

[1:09:18] I can answer this question. >> Um so in the north there's actually oil uh not a lot but a decent amount worth having. Uh in the east in particular there's rare earth minerals and there's um there's there's there's gemstones, there's rubies as you and I both >> lots of rubies. Yes. >> Lots of rubies. Um and um and that's that's basically it, right? I think um for a long during during the first Taliban period from 96 to01, it the they were so poor that their number one

[1:09:50] official export was pomegranates. Um >> oh my god. >> Yeah. >> Oh my god. Pomegranates. Uh you're right about all the other stuff. They have $23 trillion worth of rare earth metals. And we learned that just as as US forces were pulling out and Chinese miners were moving in. >> Um, >> and they're known for their rubies. Their rubies are, you know, some of the best in the world. It's it's pretty

[1:10:22] impressive. But at the very least, we should have an embassy open there, even if it's just two or three people. And we should be carrying out diplomacy >> constantly. Yeah. Not to mention, we still don't we still have some Americans who got trapped there and who and I mean they have no consular representation. >> That's right. What are you gonna do? >> We abandoned them. >> Yes, we did. >> I mean, I don't understand why why why President Trump hasn't restored those relationships. >> I agree with you. >> Should do it. All right, guys. Thank you

[1:10:53] so much for joining us. Uh always appreciated. We will be back tomorrow uh at five o'clock Eastern time. Uh we are here Monday through Friday. You're watching Drogram with Ted Roll and John Kuryaku. Please like, follow, and share the show. Um and we will see you tomorrow at 5. Bye. >> Bye everybody.
