Title: aggregator channel — likely re-upload
Show: Terrorpedia Video Center
Date: 2015-01-09
URL: https://youtu.be/U8tUetLWC54
Duration: 58:00

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[00:02] [Music] from Pacifica this is democracy now I've never gained anything from what I've said publicly in fact I've lost everything and I believe I was prosecuted not for what I did but for who I am a CIA officer who said torture was wrong and

[00:33] ineffective and went against the grain I never tortured anybody uh but I'm heading to prison while the torturers and the lawyers who papered over it and the people who deceived it and the man who destroyed the proof of it the tapes will never face Justice jailing The Whistleblower former CIA agent John kyaku speaks out just days after he was sentenced to 30 months in prison becoming the first CIA official to face jail for any reason relating to the US torture program even those who carried

[01:05] it out but first we go to Egypt a state of emergency has been declared the defense minister is warning about the possible collapse of the state we'll speak with democracy Now Sherie of do kadus and port s all that and more coming up welcome to democracy Now democracynow.org the Warren peace report I'm Amy Goodman President Obama kicked off his second term push for immigration reform Tuesday with a speech in Nevada a Battleground

[01:37] state whose growing Latino vote helped him win the November election I'm here today because the time has come for common sense comprehensive immigration reform the time is now we have to deal with the 11 million individuals who are here illegally now we all agree that these men and women should have to earn their way to citizenship but for comprehensive immigration reform to work it must be clear from the outset that there is a

[02:09] pathway to citizenship President Obama omitted detailed proposals from his address instead backing the bipartisan Senate plan that includes a path to citizenship for a large number of the estimated 11 million undocumented people in the United States but also tougher border enforcement and a system for tracking those who overstay visas in his remarks Obama took aim at anti-immigrant sentiment saying foreign Nationals are being maligned by people who forget their own ancestral past it's

[02:40] [Music] easy sometimes for the discussion to take on a feeling of US versus them and when that happens a lot of folks forget that most of us used to be them we forget that and it's really important for us to remember our history you know unless you're one of the first Americans a Native American you came from someplace else somebody brought you despite embracing the bipartisan Senate

[03:12] plan Obama vowed to send his own immigration Bill to Congress if lawmakers don't take immediate action the senates confirmed Democratic Senator John Kerry as President Obama's new secretary of state replacing Hillary Clinton the final tally was 94 in favor and three opposed after the vote Democrat Senators truck Schumer of New York and Dick Durban of Illinois paid tribute to car's Legacy we so admire the job he has done in his past life in many different phases we're excited that

[03:42] he'll be our secretary of state and I think for John KY The Best Is Yet To Come his passionate pursuit of a safe and just nation and World his deep sense of patriotism and commitment to America's most challenged values are well documented well I'm sorry to losing in the Senate as a colleague I can think of no better person to serve as our nation's next secretary of state the bodies of at least 80 people have been found in the besieged Syrian city of Aleppo each with their hands bound and gunshot wounds to the Head amateur video

[04:14] shows the dead corpses laid out after being collected from a bank on the river most of the victims appear to be young men possibly in their teens speaking to reporters after a breaking to the UN Security Council un Arab League Envoy loar bahimi said both sides of the conflict in Syria are taking part in the country's destruction Syria is being destroyed you know I sometimes say of course the parties are very angry at me when I say that uh objectively they are cooperating to

[04:46] destroy in destroying Syria Syria is being destroyed bit by bit and in destroying Syria the the region is is is is being pushed into to a uh you know a situation that is extremely bad and extremely important for the entire world that is why I believe the security Council simply cannot uh uh you know continue to say you know we we we are in disagreement

[05:17] therefore let's wait for better times the Obama administration's formally signed an agreement with ner allowing a permanent US military site in the African country reports emerged this week the US will build base in ner from which to fly drones for surveillance and potentially even missile strikes ner borders Mali where the US is aiding a french-led military operation in the country's North in Mexico police have recovered the bodies of 12 people from inside a well in the city of Monteray

[05:47] the victims were members of the band combo Colombia and their staff who had been abducted last week Israel's become the first country to boycott a UN Human Rights Council review of its record on human rights the acting president of the Human Rights Council convened the session in Geneva Tuesday only to see that no Israeli Representatives had shown up we were to convene this afternoon to proceed with the review of Israel however I see that the delegation of Israel is not in the room Israel

[06:19] severed contacts with the council last year after the body launched an investigation of illegal settlements in the occupied West Bank the news agency Reuters is reporting John Brennan President Obama's nominee to head the CIA had detailed knowledge of the agency's torture program while serving there under President George W bush official records apparently show Brennan received regular internal CIA updates about the progress of torture techniques including water boarding it's unclear if Brennan raised any objections at the

[06:51] time he was made aware attorneys for five alleged conspirators in the 9/11 attacks have asked a military judge to allow them to spend 48 hours at the Guantanamo Bay prison where their clients have been held on the second day of a pre-trial hearing Navy Commander Walter Ruiz said the conditions of the suspect's imprisonment should factor into whether they're ultimately sentenced to death case where we've asked to put people to death and when the government sets out to put people to death our

[07:21] Supreme Court has said standards are this High one of those standards is her ability to go in look at their conditions of confinement look at how they live activists from across the country gathered at the education department of Washington Tuesday to demand Federal action on a wave of school closures parents students and organizers told education secretary Arie Duncan and top AIDs that school closings are hurting entire communities disproportionately those made up of low-income residents and people of color the education

[07:52] department is currently probing complaints that school closings in six cities DC Newark Philadelphia Detroit New York and Chicago violate the 1964 Civil Rights Act Karen Harper Royal a parent and activist from New Orleans said the administration's policies are hurting students and their neighborhoods our communities are more than just data our children are not data points so I think it is time for President Obama to re-evaluate what his Department of Education is doing and its effect on our

[08:22] communities at least one person has been killed in a shooting and kidnapping abort a school bus carrying children in Alabama the gunman fatally shot the driver before seizing a young child the gunman is said to be holed up in a bunker with the child hostage in testimony Tuesday before lawmakers at the Connecticut legislature Neil hessen a grieving parent who lost his six-year-old son in New Town Sandy Hook Mass killing pleaded for a ban on assault weapons I just hope that everybody in this room as I said before

[08:54] can support change B banned assault weapons in high capacity clips and magazines and that's a step in the right direction a Georgia man is in custody and facing murder charges after allegedly shooting a Cuban immigrant who mistakenly arrived at his home due to faulty instructions from a GPS navigator 22-year-old Rodrigo Diaz was shot and killed after reportedly pulling into the

[09:24] wrong driveway the alleged shooter a 69-year-old white man named Philip sailor reportedly came out of his house and fired into the air with a handgun then shot Diaz as they were attempting to leave a lawyer for the alleged shooter says he was suspicious after a recent robbery in the area and claimed the victim had accelerated the car towards him a state judge in Texas has granted a last minute reprieve to a woman who had been set for execution 51-year-old Kimberly McCarthy won the stay on Tuesday just hours before she

[09:55] was to be killed McCarthy would have been the first woman put to death in the US since 2010 attorneys from McCarthy who's African-American say the mostly white jury that convicted her was improperly selected on the basis of race a group of activists opposed to the Keystone Excel oil pipeline has agreed to settle a lawsuit with TransCanada the company behind the project after the firm alleged a monthlong protest blockade cost it millions of dollars environmentalists with a tar sand

[10:25] blockade have tried to Halt the pipeline's route through through Texas to Gulf Coast refineries with tree sits and other protests opponents say the tarand pipeline would devastate the environment and pollute communities in its path after Trans Canada alleged blockaders had cost them $5 million the activist say they chose to settle in order to protect local residents who could have lost their homes and life savings while the group has agreed not to trespass on Keystone Excel property in Texas or Oklahoma they say the fight

[10:57] against the pipeline will continue protests against the project have also erupted in Nebraska where Governor Dave Heineman recently approved the state section of the pipeline route President Obama's delayed a decision on the pipeline until the spring after initially putting it off until after the November election the Boy Scouts of America has announced it's begun discussing an end to its longstanding ban on gay members and leaders a spokesperson for the group says the 103-year-old ban is currently under review and could be reversed at a

[11:28] national board meeting next week the move comes just months after the Boy Scouts defiantly reaffirmed its ban after a secretive 2-year review and those are some of the headlines this is democracy Now democracynow.org The War and Peace report I'm Amy Goodman and I'm n sh Welcome to our listeners and viewers around the country and around the world we begin Today's Show in Egypt where Mass protests have continued since they began last Friday on the anniversary of Egypt's Revolution now Egypt's defense minister is warning of

[12:00] the potential quote collapse of the state general Abdul fat Ali posted the comment on a Facebook page after military forces were deployed in three cities along the Suez Canal where a month-long state of emergency has been declared in recent nights thousands have filled the streets of port s along the northern tip of the canal in defiance of a nighttime curfew imposed by President Muhammad Mercy I'm against these decisions it will destroy people's incomes why does

[12:31] he Implement these measures here in Suz why doesn't he take the same measures in Cairo and Alexandria is he angry at the residence of Suz isalia and port s of course this is a disaster it will devastate Suz we are against his decisions and if he runs again as a candidate we will not elect him again and we will ignore him meanwhile clashes have also erupted in Cairo including an attack on an upscale hotel that Drew response from the Egyptian Special Forces more than 50

[13:02] people have died in the country's protest some of the violence was sparked by death sentences handed down Saturday for 21 soccer fans involved in riots that left 74 people dead last February protesters have also accused president morsy of betraying the 2-year-old Revolution all of this comes as the value of the Egyptian currency has plummeted to record lows causing a spike in the prices of basic Goods like sugar rice and cooking oil well for more we go to Port s where people continue to protest in defiance of a state of emergency and we're joined by democracy

[13:34] Now Sharif Abdul kadus who is in port s Sharie tell us what's happening and Place Port SED in Egypt for us hi Amy it's good to be with you uh port s is a city uh that is on the suas canal and on the Mediterranean it's at the mouth of the sus Canal that attaches to the Mediterranean and it's a city that uh has had a long history of of resistance uh when n nationalized the Su

[14:04] canal in the 50s uh and Egypt came under attack by France Britain and Israel uh port s was a central Target and the the attack and the resistance against it here is a source of local national pride um in the collective memory of residents here and it is that um that culture of resistance um that that has exploded on the streets here uh what happened uh really on Saturday was a massacre of uh

[14:35] of over 30 people uh who were outraged by a death sentence of 21 of their local uh football team fans soccer team fans uh for a case uh that that's been going on for more than a year now uh there were many of the families uh of those who uh of the defendants around the jail and uh once the uh the shocking verdict came out 21 death sentences handed down

[15:05] uh you could hear the whales and screams of people in the streets they approached the prison uh and uh the the police open fire um and just that first day 30 people were killed including two police officers that death to the next day they went out in a funeral the following day on Sunday uh 7 more people were killed when that funeral came under attack from police on rooftops uh nearly all of these people were killed with live ammunition the death toll now uh is uh

[15:39] is somewhere at 40 and this is uh part just just a part of what's happening in Egypt overall as you mentioned there is a Revolt uh Egypt is is undergoing a Revolt right now that began on the second anniversary of its revolution that has we've seen protests and clashes uh in the capital in Cairo uh that are still going on in Alexandria and Mahala and cities across the Delta uh something like 10 provinces are are um in Revolt right now

[16:11] and the president Muhammad morsy in a bid to uh to quell what was going on finally uh made a speech but in that speech a very uh with a very angry tone a finger wagging speech uh he uh he um in imposed uh a state of emergency for 30 days in these three cities that lie along the SE Canal uh which are the most restive cities right now as opposed to Cairo kind of leading this Revolt it's

[16:41] actually really in Suz is and port s where you're seeing kind of most resistance and he also imposed nighttime curfew and Def of that curfew the curfew is supposed to be from 9:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. thousands of people in all three of these cities uh began marches at 8:45 p.m. uh to tell Mory that they won't abide by this that they want to buy uh by his governance and so he is facing a very serious crisis of legitimacy right

[17:14] now uh the police have lost control of these cities the Army has been deployed but uh largely is guarding uh State institutions have to do with the canal so uh it's a very uh significant and pivotal moment in Egypt Sharif can you explain what the implications are of the Declaration of the state of emergency and since as you point out thousands have def defied the order what kinds of consequences are they likely to face what does a state of

[17:45] emergency entail well the state of emergency was one of the most despised tools of the Mubarak regime uh to uh suppress dissent and it was uh feature in Egypt for 30 years from October 6th uh 1981 until March 12th 2012 when it expired its lifting of the state of emergency was a principal demand of the Revolution and uh what it does is that

[18:16] it um it it essentially lifts uh from judicial people you're allowed to imprison people without judicial review um and uh it gives the police WID spread powers and uh there's also been a law passed which allows the military to uh arrest uh citizens gives them policing powers and it would mean that those citizens would be put before military trials so this is a very just the fact

[18:46] that Mori who uh before pledged never to have another state of emergency the the word state of emergency that which is such a despised tool of thear regim is now being instilled again uh I think resonated uh very harshly with with many people to be honest you know the fact on the ground is uh there has been little uh reform whatsoever actually no reform of the police forces since the revolution uh

[19:17] over these two years this is you know a force that has that se it citizens enemies uh and that um and by by some counts is engaged in more killing more torture than before the Revolution because now citizens uh when they are facing abuse no longer are quiet about it and uh take to the streets and protest and so there's a growing battle with this uh internal militia of repression that is this police force

[19:48] that has not been resolved in any way whatsoever uh there has been no accountability whatsoever for the uh over a thousand people who have been killed since the revolution and so this is uh what this is an inevitable outgrowth this kind of revolt on the streets uh and Mory is trying to do what M did for so many years trying to use the police on the streets to solve his political problems and uh right now you know Egypt is ungovernable uh by Mory or

[20:21] perhaps by you know anyone else there's a serious crisis of legitimacy of the government uh share do you agree with Egypt's top military officer General Abdul fat alisi who is saying uh that uh Egypt could potentially collapse he's warning of collapse of the state I mean it's it's hard to tell we've seen throughout these two years uh uprisings that that come and go these

[20:51] clashes that happen on the streets and there's really no uh real solution or political solution um the entire political class has failed to come together to forge path uh with consensus to have some real change and some reform in Egypt and so if we carry on on this path over problems then then you know there is this serious threat that cities like

[21:22] Port no longer recognize the legitimacy of the government like s and cities like KIRO and Alexandria and elsewhere that um people not they feel completely disenfranchised by the political process and I'm not only talking about Mori and the Muslim Brotherhood but but but also Muhammad and and the three main figures which make up the national salvation front which is a loose Alliance non-islamist opposition groups

[21:53] they uh have performed very poorly have really um in a way that that is grass and seems politically opportunistic especially since this last crisis broke out so uh you know the the natural response is for people to vent their rage on the streets uh this ongoing feud with the police so um Shar we're going to leave it there because your voice is breaking up a bit though we're really thrilled we're able

[22:23] to speak to you um um outside of Cairo speaking to you in the northern coastal city of Port SED where um a great deal of the protest is taking place democracy Now Sharif Abdul kadus um speaking to us from Port SED we will link to your article um at thenation.com this is democracy now when we come back the only person to go to jail around the torture program he was The Whistleblower on torture stay with

[22:57] us for [Music]

[23:49] for [Music] Salam by hameline here on Democracy Now democracynow.org the Warren peace report I'm meie Goodman with nmin SH a retired CIA agent who blew the whistle on the agency's bush era torture program has been sentenced to two and a half years

[24:20] in prison John kiraku becomes the first CIA official to be jailed for any reason relating to the torture program under a plea deal kiraku admitted to a single count of violating the intelligence identities protection act by revealing the identity of a covert officer to a freelance reporter who did not publish it under the plea deal prosecutors dropped charges brought under the Espionage Act in 2007 kiraku became the first CIA official to publicly confirm and detail the bush administration's use

[24:51] of water boarding when he spoke to ABC's Brian Ross at the time I I felt that water boarding was something that we needed to do and as time has passed and has as September 11th has has you know has moved farther and further back into history um I think I've changed my mind and I think that uh water boarding is probably something that we shouldn't be in the business of doing why do you say that now because we're Americans and we're better than that John kiryu's supporters say he has been unfairly

[25:21] targeted in the Obama administration's Crackdown on government whistleblowers in a statement urging President Obama to commute kiraku sentence a group of signatories including attorneys and former CIA officers said quote kiraku is an anti-torture whistleblower who spoke out Against torture because he believed it violated his oath to the Constitution Please Mr President do not allow your legacy to be one where only The Whistleblower Goes to Jail prosecutor Neil McBride the US attorney for the eastern district of Virginia defended

[25:53] the government's handling of the case as the judge just said uh in court Court today's sentence should be a reminder to every individual who works for the government who comes into the possession of closely held sensitive uh information regarding the national uh defense or the identity of a covert agent uh that it is critical that that information uh remain secure and not spill out uh into the public domain or be shared with others who don't have uh

[26:25] authorized access to it John kri who joins us now from Washington DC spent 14 years at the CIA as an analyst and a case officer in 2002 he led the team that found abuaba a high ranking member of al-Qaeda he's father of five in 2010 he published a memoir entitled The Reluctant spy my secret life in the cia's war on terror and we're joined by one of John kaku's attorneys jessyn ra act she's the Director of National Security and human rights at the government accountability project a

[26:56] former ethics adviser to the United States Department of Justice we reached out to the US attorney's office for the eastern district of Virginia but they declined our request for an interview John kiraku why are you going to jail explain the plea deal you made with the government well thanks first of all for having me uh and giving me the opportunity to uh to explain uh I'm going to prison uh ostensibly for violating the intelligence identities protection act of 1982

[27:28] uh I believe and my supporters believe that this however was not a case about leaking this was a case about torture and I believe I'm going to prison because I blew the whistle on torture I've been a Thor in the CIA side since that interview in 2007 in which I said that water boarding was torture and that it was official US government policy and I think finally the justice department caught up with me uh jeline Rak let me just bring you into the conversation to explain

[27:58] what the intelligence identities protection act is um your client John kiraku uh it's been invoked in his case for the first time in 27 years that's correct in fact there have only been two convictions under the intelligence identities protection act which was enacted to prevent cases like Philip AG not things like John kiraku it was to prevent the revealing of covert identities for profit or to Aid the

[28:29] enemy in this case John confirmed the name of a torturer to a journalist um which makes Neil McBride's statement all the more hypocritical because the biggest leaker of classified information including sources and methods and undercover identities has been the US government John kyaku explain what it is that you were trying to expose explain what you were involved with talk about Abu zua

[29:01] your involvement in the finding of him and then the course you took uh where your conscience took you sure in in 2002 I was the chief of counterterrorism operations uh for the CIA in Pakistan and my job was to try to locate Al-Qaeda Fighters or Al-Qaeda leaders and capture them to turn them over to uh to the justice department and um and have them face trial that was the original the

[29:32] original idea not to have them sit in Cuba for the next decade uh but we we caught Abu Zeda he was shot three times uh by Pakistani uh police as he was trying to escape from his safe house and um and I was the first person to uh to have custody of him to sit with him we spoke to each other extensively I mean talked about everything from September 11th to poetry that he had been writing writing to his family and and then he was moved on to a secret prison after

[30:02] that once I got back to headquarters um I heard that um he had been subject to to harsh techniques uh then euphemistically called enhanced interrogation techniques and I was asked by uh one of the leaders in the cia's counterterrorist center if I wanted to be trained in the use of these techniques I told him that I had a moral problem with them and uh I did not want to be involved so uh fast forward to 2007 by then

[30:32] um Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International had reported that Al-Qaeda prisoners had been uh tortured and ABC News called and said that they had information that I had tortured Abu Zeda I said that was absolutely untrue I was the only person who was kind to Abu Zeda and I had never tortured anybody so uh they asked me to go on their show and defend myself I did did that and in the course of the interview I said that not only was the CIA torturing prisoners but that it was

[31:04] official US government policy this was not the result of some Rogue CIA officer just beating up a prisoner every once in a while this was official policy that went all the way up to the president of the United States and so what happened after that uh in 2007 once you gave this interview can you explained what happened to you and and to your family sure within 24 hours the CIA filed what's called a crimes report against me with the justice department saying that I had revealed classified information which was the torture program and asking

[31:35] for an investigation with an eye toward Prosecuting me the justice department decided at the time that I had not revealed classified information that um the information was already in the public domain but um immediately within weeks uh I was audited by the IRS I've been audited by the IRS every single year since giving that interview in 2007 but a more important uh uh bit of Fallout from that interview was that every time I would write an oped every

[32:06] time I would give a television interview or give a speech at a university the CIA would file a crimes report against me accusing me of leaking additional classified information each time the justice department determined that I did not leak any classified information in fact I would get those Zeds and those speeches cleared by the cia's Publications Review Board in advance then the CIA started harassing my wife who at the time was a senior Cia officer um particularly over an oped I had written uh they accused her of leaking

[32:37] classified information to me uh for the purpose of writing the oped well I said I had gotten the information in in the oped from two uh UPI reports and from a uh South American Ministry of Foreign Affairs website uh and they would back off but this this sort of became our life we would be under FBI surveillance she would be called into the cia's office of security um I would have trouble uh getting a security clearance when I went to Capitol Hill it just

[33:08] became this pattern of harassment so John why didn't you stop because I think that that torture is something that needs to be discussed I said this in 2007 this is something that we should about which we shouldn't be having a national debate and frankly I have a First Amendment right to free speech and uh you know writing an oped is not against the law giving a speech about the Arab Spring or about tortures not against the law and I felt that that

[33:40] I didn't want to be cowed I didn't want to be frightened into silence uh by the CIA and John kiraku you said that uh in these instances that you've named you were actually charged with Espionage is that right can you talk about the significance of the Espionage Act yes the government initially charged me with three counts of Espionage um I'm it sounds silly maybe but I'm still personally offended by these Espionage charges which which were dropped of course the Espionage charge

[34:11] is is used as a hammer by the administration to force people into silence my Espionage charge is related to a conversation that I had with a New York Times Reporter a New York Times Reporter approached me and said that he was writing a story about a colleague of mine and would I grant him an interview I gave him the interview I said this colleague was a great guy the unsung hero of the abuaba operation terrific officer and the reporter said do you know how I can get in touch with him and

[34:41] I said no I've been out of touch with him for a while but I think I might have his business card so I gave the reporter the business card now mind you this is a CIA officer who had never ever been undercover his business card um showed that he was involved as a CIA contractor and it had his personal email on it and his cell phone number I gave the reporter uh the business card and was charged with two counts of Espionage I later gave the same business card to another journalist who was doing an article and was charged with a third

[35:13] count of Espionage what is it that you alleg the CIA was doing for all of these years explain the torture program that you were trying to expose sure there were there were something like 10 different um techniques that were used uh in the cia's torture program they went from the benign um you know uh where where an officer would grab a prisoner by the lapels and and give him a shake all the way up to the really rough things that

[35:44] we've heard about like water boarding or what I think is worse uh sleep deprivation uh or the cold cell where they'll put a prisoner naked in a Cell chilled to 50 or 55° and then every hour to throw ice water on him I I actually think those last two are worse than water boarding um but again the these are techniques that we have condemned other countries uh for throughout history the the Japanese did this during the second World War uh the belgians did

[36:15] it in in Africa uh earlier in the century uh the Chinese and the Vietnamese did it this is these are techniques that we have always said were crimes against humanity and then it was though it was though after setember 11th everything changed and we somehow had license to do the same things we had been condemning I I thought that was wrong you know director Petraeus former director Petraeus made a statement in October when I agreed to take a plea to make these other charges go away uh and he said uh that my conviction shows that

[36:49] we have to take our Oaths seriously well I took my oath seriously my oath was to to the constitution on my first day in the CIA I I put my right hand up and I swore to uphold the Constitution and to me torture is unconstitutional and it's something that we should not be in the business of doing uh John kiraku I want to play for you comments President Obama made four years ago shortly before he took office about whether CIA officials involved in torture should be prosecuted he appeared on the ABC news this week

[37:21] I'm no believe that anybody is above the law on the other hand I also have a belief that we need to look forward as lo as opposed to look looking backwards uh and part of my job is to make sure that for example at the CIA uh you've got extraordinarily talented people who are working very hard to keep Americans safe uh I don't want them to suddenly feel like they've got to spend all their time uh we looking over their shoulders and and lawyer so no 911 Commission with independent power you we have not made

[37:53] final decisions but my instinct is for us to focus on how do we make sure that moving forward uh we are doing the right thing that was President Obama speaking four years ago to ABC uh John kiraku your response to what the president said I supported uh uh the president's response I remember that interview and and I thought okay he's right there are wonderful talented hardworking men and women at the CIA who need to be protected but at the same time it's one thing to look forward it's another thing

[38:25] to look forward just for the torture ERS it's just not fair it's not fair to the American people if we're going to if we're going to make prosecutions or or initiate prosecutions those prosecutions can't just be against the people who who blew the whistle on the torture who opposed to who opposed the torture uh you know we haven't we haven't uh even investigated the torturers uh as jessin said uh we haven't um initiated any actions against

[38:55] the people who conceived of the torure torture and implemented the policy or against the man who destroyed evidence of the torture or against the attorneys who used specious legal arguments to justify the torture if we're going to move forward let's move forward but you can't Target one person or two people uh who blew the whistle uh John kiraku you've also spoken about witnessing new Foreign Service officers being confirmed foreign Services officers who were previously with the CIA and participated in Acts of torture could you EXP expl

[39:27] what happened and explain its significance yes when I was a a senior investigator on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee I was approached by a journalist who said that he had evidence that the CIA was uh misusing its cover agreement with the state department to place people involved in the torture program under State Department cover so that their names could not be exposed in the press and if those names were exposed in the press the the people giving the names would be subject to the intelligence identities protection act

[39:57] so uh again this was a violation of the uh of the CIA State Department cover agreement uh I sent a letter under Senator John kery then Senator John Ker's uh signature asking the CIA for clarification I got a response about six weeks later that was classified top secret so I was not permitted to to see the response I did not have a top secret clearance at the time and uh a colleague of mine told me that the letter essentially said in very strongly worded language to my mind my own

[40:28] business we're going to go to break and we come back we want to ask you about President Obama's nominee to become the next head of the CIA John Brennan because as you talk about the administration we're talking actually about administrations from the Bush Administration to the Obama Administration Our Guest is about to go to jail his name is John kiraku he's about to serve two and a half years in jail these this will be one of his last interviews where he goes to prison we're joined also by jelyn Rak who is one of his attorneys stay with

[41:02] us C when we c i a i somewhere die what kind of life is this out of sight out of mind with divis this get your head fight betrayed and gone WR hold on ads get they roll on like

[41:33] backdam puffing C the trees cuffed on the lawn of the White House and right now you never heard of bodies get blasted back tagged in taxs beef Ser sheep eating BS of fat on the other side we wearing bags for hats oring jump Su seat standing back to back partying the heat everybody we live in dead H give them a [Music] bless F's like come on let's c

[42:08] i by The Narcissist this is democracy Now democracynow.org the Warr and peace report I'm Amy Goodman with nine shik we're going to talk about John Brennan right now President Obama's nominee to become the next chief of the CIA the news agency Reuters is reporting that Brennan had detailed information on the agency's tour program while serving there under President George W bush official records apparently show Brennan received regular internal CIA updates about the progress of torture techniques including water boarding it's unclear if

[42:40] Brennan raised any objections at the time he was made aware Brennan's confirmation hearing will be February 7th in 2006 he gave an interview with Frontline on PBS where he said it was right for the Bush Administration to quote take off the gloves after the 911 attacks the war or the campaign against terrorism is going to be a long one um and that the opposition whether it be Al-Qaeda or whether it be Iraq doesn't play by the marqu de Queensbury Queensbury rules and therefore you know

[43:11] the US in some areas has to take off the gloves and I think that's entirely appropriate I think we do have to take off the gloves in some areas but within bounds and at the right time and the right way and for the right reason and with full understanding of what the consequences of that might be that was John Brennan in 2006 when President Obama was first elected in his first term uh he wanted to uh John Brennan to be his director of Central Intelligence there was such an outcry in the human rights community that John

[43:42] Brenan pulled his name out now four years later President Obama has officially uh nominated uh John Brennan once again to head the CIA Our Guest John kiraku is about to go to jail was sentenced to 30 months in prison worked for the CIA um there while John Brennan was there uh can you respond to what John Brennan knew when he knew it and the fact that President Obama wants him to be head of the

[44:13] CIA sure obviously I can't read John Brennan's mind but I can tell you that uh at the time that uh the torture techniques were being implemented John Brennan was President Bush's director of the national counterterrorist Center uh he was also um uh a little earlier than that the deputy executive director and then I believe executive director of the CIA that's the number three ranking uh position in the CIA so he would have had to have been intimately involved uh in

[44:47] um not necessarily in carrying out the torture techniques but but in the policy the torture policy uh either that or or he had to to be brain dead uh because you can't be in positions like that director of the national counter terrorist Center and executive director of the CIA without knowing what the cia's torture policies are now I'm surprised frankly uh also at the fact that there's no outrage in the human rights Community uh now that uh Mr Brennan's nomination has been made U

[45:20] official uh there there was there was a great hu and cry in 2009 when he was in floated for the position of CIA director and I'm not sure why there's a difference between four years ago and now John Brennan certainly hasn't changed uh John kiraku I want to read a comment made by the judge at your sentencing hearing judge Leoni binkas sentenced you to 30 months in prison last Friday saying quote this case is not a case about a whistleblower it's a

[45:52] case about a man who betrayed a very solemn trust and that is a trust to keep the Integrity of his agency intact and specifically to protect the identity of co-workers I think 30 months is frankly way too light because the message has to be sent to every covert agent that when you leave the agency you can't just start all of a sudden revealing the names of the people with whom you worked the judge said John kiraku can you comment on that statement sure when judge brinka accepted the plea deal in

[46:24] October uh she she called 30 months months uh fair and appropriate uh I can only think that with a courtroom packed full of uh journalists uh on last Friday uh she decided to seize the moment and uh and make a statement uh that that would be carried in the in the papers I don't know what changed between October and January other than the fact that she and the prosecution had had several uh exp parte uh Communications what that means is the prosecutors were able to to

[46:57] meet with the judge related to my case without the defense my attorneys uh being present so we have no idea what it was that the prosecution told the judge we were not allowed to defend ourselves indeed uh judge Bika Dei denied uh 75 motions that we made uh asking for declassification of information so that I could present a defense in in August of 2012 after our motions had been denied my attorneys and I walked out of the courtroom and my attorney said we

[47:28] have no defense she won't let us say anything she won't let us defend you and so we were forced into plea negotiations but again I'm not sure why the judge changed her position between October and January it was inexplicable explain what that's like in the courtroom uh when they invoke National Security that the prosecutor can come forward and speak privately with the judge without your defense attorneys being there yeah I I had never heard of such a thing before but in August when we made our 75 motions um we thought that the judge would block

[48:00] off two days to hear the 75 in fact there had been a conversation with the prosecution and so she uh she blocked off an hour to hear the 75 motions so we knew we were in trouble and then at the very start of the uh hearing uh the prosecutor got up and said that he uh was requesting a rule four conversation I didn't know what this was my attorneys objected and said if you don't want the defendant to hear at least allow us to to hear so that we can uh represent his

[48:31] interests and the judge said no this is a national security case I'm allowed an exp parte communication with the prosecutors so the prosecutors went up to the bench we could hear them Whispering they came back to their table and the judge said all 75 motions are denied and that was the end of it we got up and we walked out of court and my attorney said we have to negotiate a plea uh J it was extremely disheartening uh JN Rak uh I wanted to ask you about the legal implications of this case and

[49:02] how it fits into the treatment of government whistleblowers uh under the Obama Administration absolutely to get to the point you just raised with John I think the reason judge binka changed her opinion between October and last week is because the government submitted a secret statement that John was not allowed to see that played a large role in the sentencing hearing but neither the public nor the defendant were allowed to see the statement which is

[49:33] very Kafkaesque but in the grander scheme the W the prosecution of John kiraku and the war on whistleblowers using the heavy-handed Espionage Act by charging people who dare to tell the truth as being enemies of the state sends a very chilling message and judge brinka herself acknowledged that a strong message had to be sent that Secrets must be kept but apparently that only applies to people who are trying to

[50:04] reveal government abuses and illegality because all of the people in the White House and the CIA who ve revealed classified information um and over undercover identities to the makers of a Hollywood film Zero Dark 30 have done so with impunity and with lavish praise wait can you say specifically what you're talking about JN re yes specifically the White House and the CIA

[50:35] were very involved in the making of Zero Dark 30 which pretends to be some kind of neutral film that implies torture led to the capture of of Osama bin Laden which it absolutely did not in that process a highlevel defense department official Michael Vickers revealed the identity of an undercover Special Operations Command officer um but was not held to account for that and the CIA

[51:08] revealed numerous classified pieces of information including sources and methods so when y keep going so when the United States talks about the sanctity of keeping secrets and both the judge and multiple statements by United States officials discussed that they are the biggest leakers of all and they do so with impunity I wanted to talk about another whistleblower targeted by the

[51:39] Obama Administration um who has been former National Security Agency analyst uh he's uh Thomas Drake he worked for the NSA for nearly seven years before blowing the whistle uh Thomas Drake appeared on Democracy Now last March the critical thing that I discovered was not just the massive fraud waste and abuse but also the fact that NSA had chosen to ignore a 23-year legal regime which had been established in 1978 called the foreign intelligence surveillance act with the foreign intelligence surveillance court and

[52:09] which at NSA during the time that I was not NSA but also in the military flying on rc135s overseas during the latter part of the Cold War it was a contrary the one thing you did not do it was the Prime direction of NSA it was you know the the First Amendment at NSA which is you do not spy on Americans and what' you find without a warrant I found to much to my to my horror that they had tossed out that legal regime that was the excuse of 911 which I was told was exit conditions now prevailed we Canen can do anything we

[52:41] opened up Pandora's Box we're going to turn the United States of America into the equivalent of a forign Nation for the purpose of a of draget blanket electronic surveillance that's former National Security Agency analyst Thomas Drake jine Rak is one of your clients what happened to him yes I represented um both Tom Drake and John kiraku the government dropped all 10 felony counts against Tom Drake and he pled guilty to a minor misdemeanor the equivalent of a parking ticket I find it appalling that the two

[53:15] men who revealed the biggest scandals of the Bush Administration namely warrantless wiretapping and torture are the only two who've been criminally prosecuted for and not the people who secretly surveil the communications of Americans and not the people who were involved in the torture program all of whom have been conferred immunity by either the president or by acts of Congress John

[53:45] kiraku you're now uh we are now uh the president is President Obama did you see a change between President Obama and his predecessor president President Bush and also when when you were talking about John Brennan do you think he should head the CIA what message do you think that sends and what has changed in the last four years when he withdrew his name for consideration uh in 2010 when my book came out I I was giving a speech in Los

[54:15] Angeles and a and a woman asked me a question um about the difference between President Obama and President Bush and I'll never forget the question because it was just so crazy uh she said um can you explain the cia's pos position on the Jihad isation of American foreign policy under President Obama and I laughed and I said ma'am with all due respect President Obama's foreign policy is an extension of President Bush's foreign policy if there's any difference at all President Obama is killing more

[54:47] people overseas than President Bush ever did uh so no I I don't think there's any difference at all between the bush foreign policy and the Obama foreign policy which I think really is is a is a shame for us because there was a wonderful opportunity to take a different path and to reclaim our our position as a moral leader uh in the world so I'm disappointed in that uh with regard to uh to John Brennan I've known John Brennan since 1990 uh I worked directly for John Brennan twice

[55:17] uh I think that he's a terrible uh choice to lead the uh the CIA I think that it's time for the CIA to move beyond the ugliness of of the post September 11th regime and we need someone who is going to respect the Constitution and to not be bogged down by a legacy of torture I think that President Obama's appointment of John Brennan sends the wrong message to all Americans you worked with him directly

[55:47] for him did Brennan receive regular internal CIA updates about the progress of torture techniques including water boarding as Reuters is reporting I I worked for him when he was a u uh an analytic uh manager it was before he really hit the big time under George tenant but again I think that it's impossible for him to not have gotten these briefings for him to not have been intimately involved in the policy by virtue of his his senior positions some of the senior most positions in the CIA

[56:18] it's just impossible that he didn't know what was going on John kiraku uh you'll shortly be going to prison do you know exactly when uh your prison sentence will begin and how are you preparing for this you're the father of five children I'm the father of five uh I don't know exactly when this will be it'll be sometime in the next uh four to six weeks I'll have to report to to a prison somewhere I I don't know where um it's frankly very hard to prepare you have to do things

[56:50] like arrange a power of attorney uh arrange uh Child Care um I mean there there are so many things to do it's it's just overwhelming um my wife thank God is is very strong and very tough and very supportive and um we're treating this like temporary Duty overseas it was not unusual for me to go overseas for for many months at a time sometimes as long as two years at a time two and a half years so we're treating
