Title: HR News Channel
Show: HR News Channel
Date: 2022-09-13
URL: https://youtu.be/06-usYETsbo
Duration: 44:00

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[00:02] [Music] foreign ladies and gentlemen welcome back to another fantastic homeless romantic podcast some today we have somebody very special who put his life on the line to tell the American public what they needed to know about the torture program xcia whistleblower Mr John kiriaku how are you John hey doing well thanks thanks for having me uh I wanted to

[00:33] start off by saying John has a radio show uh that has been banned on most every platform he's currently he's been de-platformed and everybody knows right now that the mainstream media and the the government is going in overdrive trying to silence anybody who's not for the Ukraine war or for this and that the other so it's really important John's radio show it's on Sputnik if you can find it just search around but he's going to talk about the topics that nobody else is going to talk about um so welcome to the show John thank you I

[01:06] appreciate it I want to blast through a few questions that I had prepared um in response to I tell people shortly yeah you you were CI whistleblower um you told people about the you you talked to the journalists about there being a torture program it was fine for a few years the Obama Administration as things change Obama came in and actually was more cruel to whistleblowers than he'd ever been than any other president yeah and essentially um reopen the case threw you under the bus

[01:37] and made you serve how much was it 22 months 23 months 23 months yep and uh and basically uh started a new era of cracking down on whistleblowers that um is still going on today and we're still it's still getting harder and harder to do things like this um yes and then later there's some issues with uh you interacting with Trump and and trying to get apart from him and of course not to no avail I'm

[02:08] assuming um and to this day are you still a felon technically or do you have a passport is it oh yeah no I yeah I've paid my debt to society so uh I've got a passport I I travel extensively um I just got back from uh from Israel on Tuesday and earlier in the month I was in London and I was in Saudi Arabia in July so I travel a lot but um what a what a pardon would do for me is

[02:39] it would give me back my uh my pension my federal pension which was confiscated so uh you know I had 770 000 saved in that pension I'd like to have it back yeah that's really why I'm going for the pardon but yeah otherwise you know as soon as I got out of prison I applied um for a state pardon through the office of the governor of Virginia it was Terry McAuliffe at the time and man that guy's office could not have been any more helpful any more kind that

[03:11] they expedited it I got this big certificate with a gold seal and the governor's signature on it they reinstated all my civil rights so for me it's all about the pension okay okay yeah and for everybody out there listening this is a man who risked his life to tell you guys all that there was malfeasance and uh maybe you could write your Congressman write your I don't know how politics work anymore but just I appreciate that thank you try to try to uh Shine the spotlight on this man for

[03:42] what he's done thank you for that so I'll start with my line of questions so I I really the CIA is a sketchy organization and it's famous for doing very sketchy things in the dark and stuff so how did you begin your career and how what was your rep like what did you think of them at the time what was known about the CIA right and uh has it has your opinion about that changed over time well dramatically to answer the easy question uh dramatically uh I I didn't apply to the CIA the CIA

[04:15] came to me uh I was in grad school at George Washington University and I was taking a class called the psychology of leadership fascinating class being taught by an eminent psychiatrist by the name of Gerald post he had a he had a PhD in political science a PhD in Psychology and an MD and he called himself a political psychiatrist so um he assigned us a paper one day where we had to Shadow our bosses for a

[04:46] week and write a psychological profile of our bosses so um I uh I was working at the United Food and Commercial Workers International Union at the time at their headquarters here in Washington and I I worked for this guy who was sort of an old school tough mean you know son of a gun he had his back broken by scabs during a strike and it was he was just one of these old-time tough guys you know you see pictures of uh

[05:18] of these old school Union guys with baseball bats and stuff that was him so halfway through the week I'm actually a little bit afraid of him and halfway through the week we had an argument and I called him a racist which he was and he got so angry he balled up his fists and I put up my hands because I thought oh I went too far this time I put up my hands and he says my penis is bigger than yours

[05:48] and I said what and he says my penis is bigger than yours and I said you know what you're nuts and I quit and I walked out I quit so I wrote my paper I said that he was a sociopath with Psychopathic and possibly violent tendencies backed it up you know with evidence and stuff and turned in the paper a week later I get it back from Dr post and he gave me an A and he wrote in the margin please see me after class so

[06:20] I went to see him and I said Dr post you wanted to see me yeah close the door he says I closed the door and he says listen I'm not really a professor here I'm a CIA officer undercover as a professor here and I'm looking for people who might fit into the cia's culture I think you would fit in would you like to join the CIA well the truth was I was getting married like six weeks later I had no job I had

[06:50] a masters of just finishing a master's degree in legislative affairs which wasn't going to do anything for me and so I said sure why not always wanted to see the the world interested in public service and uh the next thing I knew I was I was in the CIA had you ever seen a James Bond movie up until that point oh yeah yeah no I loved it I I loved the idea of it I loved the the subterfuge and you know the excitement and I I had done a lot of traveling in

[07:22] college I had gone to two dozen countries in college just on my own you know with a backpack and my girlfriend and stuff but but this this sounded exciting and like I say you know I come from an immigrant family and and public service was always something that was very very important in our household you know we were very grateful for the opportunities that this country gave us and so I actually only looked at jobs in in public service I

[07:52] was thinking you know maybe I'll go into the Foreign Service and maybe I'll you know go to the hill I had this master's degree and essentially in lobbying you know and then this opportunity presented itself so when was that like was there an ethical component that eventually struck you where you started saying oh uh oh yeah totally see my my career was divided into two halves the first half was in analysis the directorate of intelligence where you write you know the president's

[08:23] Daily Brief you write for the secretaries of state and defense for the National Security advisor the CIA director and so you're you're doing you're you're offering up your analysis to support policy um I got bored with that about seven and a half years into my my career and um as it turned out I was the only person in the CIA at the time that spoke both Greek and Arabic fluently and so um I applied for a position as a counter-terrorism officer in Athens

[08:56] uh working on Arab terrorist groups and it sounds quaint now but Euro communism and uh and I got the job so I went through traditional operational training and uh and found that I had a knack for it so I did two years in Athens I came back in the summer of 2000 uh to head a group that trained Middle Eastern intelligence services and counter-terrorist operations and then 911 hit and um I

[09:29] found myself as the chief of counter-terrorism operations in Pakistan wow wow yeah so the Greek was a given like you your grandparents were Greek yes and when you you got a president all you wanted was the gyro bladder the hero seriously seriously man I love that [Applause] um Greek Greece is beautiful Greece is really spectacular oh my God in fact I I'm jumping way ahead but when I got in trouble uh the Greek Ambassador called me and he said how can we be helpful and I said you can give me Greek citizenship

[10:01] and they did and not just they gave it to me they gave it to all five of my kids too way to go well Greece is mad at the United States and the EU anyway so they're like anything we can do John yeah seriously well and so and so it but you're you're um your kind of idea about the CIA when did it change when did you think you know why yeah I I can tell you I can tell you exactly when it changed um I can tell you the the hour that it changed okay on the night of uh March 28

[10:34] 2002 I led a series of raids that resulted in the capture of Abu zubaida who we believed at the time was the number three in Al Qaeda um those raids also netted many dozens of I'm not allowed to say the number but many dozens of al-Qaeda Fighters and several Al-Qaeda mid-level leaders um there are a couple of things that happened that night that changed my perspective one of them was we had captured so many

[11:06] guys that night that we had to bring them to our safe house for interrogation in shifts right we could only fit like 10 at a time in the Paddy Wagon uh to bring them to the safe house and um there were a bunch of guys working for me on loan from headquarters who I really didn't like or respect there was one in particular who was just furious because he believed he should be in charge and in fact he had he had flunked out of

[11:36] operational training so he he shouldn't be in charge of a coffee clutch let alone a counter-terrorism operation so he brings the first load of prisoners to the uh to the safe house and they all have hoods on like like sacks on their heads and I said why are they hooded and he says we don't want him to see who we are we don't want them to know our identities and I said to him I got right in his face and I said Are you seriously

[12:07] telling me that you've never read the Geneva Convention Are you seriously telling me that you don't know it's a [ __ ] War crime to hood people yeah and I said take those hoods off and he says I'm reporting you to headquarters and I said no I'm reporting you to headquarters for committing a war crime well we reported each other to headquarters and headquarters took his side oh [ __ ] because the Geneva Convention means

[12:37] nothing well we're at War they said I said actually we're not at War there's been no Congressional declaration of war right yeah Al Qaeda is not a not a uh uh State actor no we have to treat them as civilians and you can't Hood them yeah so that that was the first inkling to me that the rules had changed then I get back to headquarters and I'm back let me think I'm back

[13:09] like three weeks I've just caught the purported number three of Al Qaeda with these two hands right and I get passed over for promotion um so I go to the deputy director of the counterterrorism center who was an old friend of mine and I said what the heck happened I said what do I need to do catch Bin Laden how do I get promoted around here and he said that the promotion panel determined that by turning them down

[13:41] when they asked me if I wanted to go through the torture training that I had displayed a shocking lack of commitment to counter-terrorism they asked 14 people to be trained in the use of these enhanced interrogation techniques I was the only one who said no and so they passed me over for promotion well I ended up getting a much better job I became the executive assistant to the cia's deputy director who was secretly anti-torture although he never said so out loud did you win so when you got when you did that and you

[14:13] said hey uh they're like hey you guys you should learn this and you said I'm not really into that did you think at that point that they would be maybe looking at you differently from now on you didn't think about that no I didn't and and friends of mine from the the time from the period uh tell me that they completely turned on me back then and I had no idea I had no idea so I I mentioned to the deputy director I said I I can't believe I got passed over for promotion and then he gave me what's called a field promotion he just ordered

[14:45] me promoted so at least I and see that's one of the reasons why I thought I was okay you know they used to call me the human rights guy and a friend of mine told me afterwards you know that that was not a compliment they weren't complimenting you nope so yeah it was 2002 that my view of them changed and their view of me changed wow yeah that's incredible that is so incredible yeah the human rights guy that's not a compliment no um not a

[15:16] problem and then that's what brings me to my next question because the CIA is inherently always involved in dark Shady business and they are always in the business of lying and hiding and doing all this stuff so at no point like even in this conversation John I don't trust you but but seriously like when you get involved with an organization like that you never know who your friends are and and your allies yes it seems tricky and I I don't know if I could handle that in life but they have done everything from

[15:46] uh using LSD on unsuspecting citizens backing nearly 50 60 70 80 100 coups in South America and all over the world with this great reading if anybody out there doesn't know um and as we know now torturing suspected terrorists or you know or anybody that fits that bill right so what in your opinion are some of the most egregious and and horrible things the CIA or the government has been guilty of through

[16:17] all right wow wow where do you even begin you know you have to start really with uh well if you're looking at if you're looking at egregious things against human beings you have to begin with the LSD uh trials um they dose people with LSD not giving them any any warning that they were doing this you know we we had a CIA contractor there have been TV shows and films made about them we had a

[16:48] CIA contractor who was dosed with LSD who had no idea what was happening and he jumped out of a hotel window and killed himself yeah um there are reports which I've always assumed are true uh that uh the CIA put LSD in in dough to make bread in a French Village in the 1950s that made half the village go completely crazy the CIA worked hand in glove with Nazi

[17:20] scientists through the 1950s and the 1960s the CIA has overthrown countless governments and in some cases like Iran for example we're still paying the price for that decision uh the CIA has instituted a torture program a an international rendition program a secret prison program uh they've spied on the United States Senate and its investigators I mean you could go on and on volumes of books have been written

[17:51] about this kind of thing so yeah it's it's not a proud history yeah and right now I'm finding it really difficult to find any information on Kirchner and Argentina and what's going on there because I've been trying to share videos of this alleged assassination but what I do know is that any socialist government that comes to power in South America that it's a big [ __ ] deal for America and they go down there and the CIA most likely I don't know tries to subvert that democracy or do whatever and in the I'll just interject here and say the in

[18:21] the case of Eva Morales they kid they got this woman that happened to be in a picture with him and apparently said that that was his underage lover and all this stuff and then he raped her well the police actually kidnapped this woman and held her for multiple days without food and forced her to make this statement saying that the president of Bolivia raped me or whatever and she escaped made it to somewhere else with her family intact and was able to say hey that stuff I just said I just made it up

[18:52] the the police [ __ ] made me say it so this is something to be aware of in America anybody from America listening this is this is crazy what do you think about that John side note well you know pre-911 I would have my head would have just bobbed up and down and I would have said yeah the CIA does that kind of things post 911 um there's a lot less of that uh and it's because the CIA has so many more important things to worry about terrorism Iran North Korea Russia and

[19:22] China those are what are called tier zero issues meaning drop everything and focus on this I remember I remember hearing a senior officer give advice to a junior officer who spoke Spanish and was interested in making a career in Latin America and the senior officer said go make a career in Latin America you'll never get promoted again and you'll never find yourself in a position of influence at headquarters because nobody gives a [ __ ] about Latin America anymore and I found that to be true because 9 11. wow why is that is there

[19:55] are the resources not important enough or do we have a good enough grip on it or well they're just I mean resources believe it or not are finite especially human resources and um you've got to focus on the stuff that's the most immediate and and you know people don't realize that it's the White House that sets the the cia's agenda um if the White House believes that the biggest problems the country faces are Russia and China then everybody's going to be working on Russia and China it's not an accident for example that

[20:27] that John Brennan created uh the Iran uh it's called the Iran Mission uh at the CIA to coordinate all Iran activities government-wide we already had an Iraq Mission we have a counter um uh what's it called counter proliferation Center a counter-terrorism center it's it's those big tier zero issues that everybody's focused on and you know if you're inside the CIA too you want to get promoted and you're not going to get promoted working on

[20:57] Paraguay yeah you're going to get promoted working on Iran gotcha got Korea well that would that would tell me that South America is no longer a threat and anything that's it's we have absolute control you know Kissinger actually said and this I think this is true in the case of things like Maduro because Maduro uh is socialist and a lot of been populist in the way where they voted for him and they like him uh but all of a sudden there's food shortages well Kissinger famously said who is this great douchebag the worst the worst he said you control the food you control

[21:28] the people you control the uh means of production as far as tractors and whatever seeds and food distribution and especially with uh what we call conventional uh processed foods and stuff like that um and then all of a sudden the shelves are empty in Venezuela and the media is desperately trying to blame it on him and so there's two sides to every story always sometimes three yeah I'm finding that human rights is is a word that the United States uses as a club to beat over countries over the head with to say

[21:59] he's a dictator we're gonna get him yeah but then the Saudis execute they behead 81 people in in one day and we don't even make an official statement yeah yeah yeah this is the great wonderful world of hypocrisy that you get to learn as you get older and you read enough you know that hey this is all American imperialism is a real bad thing and we might be we might be the Nazis this time yeah we're looking for bad guys um so now you've you've written so many

[22:32] books so many great and and I really have to say thank you your time in the CIA in your whole life I think you as a Storyteller and a writer you're just unbelievably talented oh thank you you know I I'll tell you a kind of a funny story about that my first book I I wrote the first 60 pages and I gave it to my wife and I said give it a read and tell me what you think and um she reads it and she comes back and she says I I hate it I said really she said it's terrible it reads like a like a government report

[23:05] and uh then she said listen I've I've heard you tell these stories a thousand times just write them the way you tell them and it was that advice yeah that made me just completely change my writing style and so now that's that's how I try to write I try to write it as though I'm sitting you know across the table from you and I'm telling you a story yeah and it's and it's your attention to detail and the flow and the excitement in your voice which you you know your facts thank you fantastic man really I

[23:36] appreciate it what's great is and I would say it myself because I you may not know much about me but I've I used to hitchhike and hop trains and live the homeless Bohemian lifestyle Across America for about 10 years awesome and that also in itself it gave me exciting experiences to tell a story by through you know what I learned and the wisdom behind that and you have the same thing ah thank you yeah and that brings me to my next question because um you wrote a book called doing time like a spy how the CIA taught me to

[24:08] survive and thrive in prison okay cool cool title and uh I wanted to ask you what does an average day for an incarcerated whistleblower stuck in prison what are some of the best and worst things about your prison stack the worst things are are twofold one is the monotony it really is Groundhog Day every single day is just like every other day you don't even know what day it is from one to the next

[24:39] um the other one is the the other bad part is the guards um Dr Peter moskos of the John Jay College um School of um criminal justice said that the Bureau of Prisons is little more than an employment agency for otherwise unemployable uneducated white men uh and I found that to be exactly true that there's a reason why our prisons are all out in the Boondocks because there's no other industry out there and

[25:11] you know people who flunk out of the local police academy or get thrown out of the military have to work somewhere and they can't all deliver pizzas so they become prison guards and I'm not saying that to be mean that's I mean most of them actually were pizza delivery guys before they became prison guards um and because they've got authority over people uh they they can be cruel like irrationally cruel um so that was the other bad part the normal day to tell you the truth and

[25:43] this is what you need to do as soon as you get into prison is come up with a routine if you can come up with a routine um and regiment your day you're going to be fine so uh you know everybody's got to work right it's it's like slavery you have to work and I made I think I made like 16 cents an hour something like that 14 cents an hour I don't even remember anymore and um and I would get vast amounts of mail I

[26:15] would get 60 70 80 letters a day from people and I decided on my very first day that if somebody was going to take time out of their day to write me an old-fashioned letter I was going to write back and I ended up responding to more than seven thousand letters uh while I was there nice job John I answered every single one of them so that would be a good part of my day and then I would um I would otherwise uh write I actually wrote an op-ed for the Los Angeles Times

[26:46] while I was incarcerated I wrote an op-ed for the um the guardian I wrote an article for the Los Angeles Review of Books so I was getting published by like major Outlets while I was in prison and I was writing them longhand on a legal pad and uh and send them to these newspapers and they would publish them so I realized I had an audience and um I had access to the media Jake Tapper came up to prison to interview me

[27:17] um I gave an interview from prison to NPR uh the Greek media wow they used to come all the time I was in the Greek papers all the time and so I realized I had you know I had an audience out there that was interested in what I had to say so I started writing this book and you know it's it's kind of a serious book and it's kind of a comedic book um I talk about the 20 life lessons that I learned at the CIA that I used in

[27:48] prison to keep myself safe and at the top of the social Heap and um and it worked out I ended up winning as crazy as it sounds I won two literary awards for that book I won the Penn First Amendment award which is huge it's one of the big four with the Pulitzer the Penn Faulkner and the Edgar Allan Poe and I won the forward reviews Memoir of the year for 2016. just crazy but it worked out nicely I mean you're you're not you're Natural Born

[28:19] that's the thing and then the story is good and and the book is good I really recommend anybody out there who likes to read go get it thank you go get this book it's good it's really doing time like a spy it's called yeah how the CIA taught me to survive and thrive in prison and this is just one of many books this guy has written and they're all that exciting seriously um so when you you got out of prison you began working on this book um what obligations did you have as far

[28:51] as secrecy and stuff like that to the CIA and the parole board what what could you say yeah it was tricky right good question um well there there is no federal parole board they uh they disbanded it in 1986 um because there's no federal parole anymore but for the rest of my life I I have to send everything I write to the cia's Publications review board and um they didn't object to that book but they've objected to much of the other stuff that I've

[29:23] written and I've had to go to the mat with them a couple of times um and uh one of the most recent books that I wrote um is is called um uh the CIA Insider's Guide to surveillance and surveillance detection right right and they they blacked out like an entire page and so I appealed and they said you can't say this stuff it's uh it's classified properly and currently classified as the terminology and I said

[34:33] and a guy that lives in my housing unit he nice guy born in Afghanistan but but moved here as an infant so um you know he spoke like a like an American he was a pharmacist who had an oxy problem so he found himself incarcerated yeah so he comes up to me and he says hey John there's a new guy here and he wants to meet you he used to be the spokesman for the Taliban and I said not interested

[35:05] not interested and he said oh okay I'll tell him so I heard from a couple of other people that this guy wanted to meet me and I told everybody I have no interest in meeting this guy I don't want to speak to him so one day I'm out on the on the yard walking around the track and this like obviously Afghan looking guy with a beard halfway down to his waist starts walking towards me with his hand out like to shake my hand just as he puts his hand out I happen to

[35:38] look past him and I see a guy in the woods on the outside of the fence with a camera with a long range lens and it's pointed at me so I put my hands up and I said to the guy don't [ __ ] touch me and he's got his hand out for me to shake and I said don't [ __ ] touch me and he said oh come on man don't be like that and I said get the [ __ ] out of here I don't have anything to say to you and he says you and I have a lot in common I

[36:09] said you and I have nothing in common I used to try to kill people like you and then I walked away so later on I did a Freedom of Information Act request on myself because they're so stupid at the Bureau of Prisons like I say it's just a collection of rejects from society that work there um and sure enough they were trying to set me up and that was just one of many not many but several things that they did to get because they wanted to add

[36:40] time onto my sentence so they were trying to get you on film shaking hands with somebody from the Taliban to show that you were somehow oh look at him he's terrorist yeah I'm a traitor right uh and the Taliban is this is an extremist religious nut bar group from the Middle East yeah absolutely uh how many uh I I want to stick to the questions I got but I have so many personal questions I want to ask you well I have you back you know um sure we got 15 minutes before it's uh your

[37:13] time so um so we're going through a lot of turbulent times in human history with the war yeah climate change dying democracy at the hand of corporate interest with you know the various tactics they're using to confuse us all and right and a worldwide rise in fascism as we speak uh and then on to on top of it all a nice creamy Global pandemic so how did we get here in your opinion and where do you think we're going John cariako

[37:44] I think that well from from a CIA perspective um I I am not hopeful in any way I think that the most important um issues that the American people face are being ignored by government and I mean especially climate change in in 1993 when Al Gore became vice president he ordered that the CIA create something

[38:14] called um a National Environmental Center to address climate change as an intelligence problem and as soon as George W Bush was elected uh he disbanded that Center and it's never reappeared at the CIA but can you imagine the the things like population transfers or food instability that are on the horizon because of climate change these are all very important intelligence uh challenges and they're being ignored yeah um I I have to agree

[38:45] with you too about how you know we we claim to be this shining Beacon's hope for democracy and human rights and civil rights and civil liberties and it's just simply not true it's just not true plain and simple you can't be a Beacon of Hope for human rights when you have secret prisons and torture chambers and illegal Renditions it's just not possible yeah it's it's hypocritical yeah all the way back to the banana republics all the way

[39:17] back to the banana republics which which we you know financed and armed and supported and and carried on so yeah I I'm not optimistic about about our future I'm really not and I have to say what I and especially I've just been because I'm in Germany right now and I've been reading off what's going on in the UK and uh they passed a law in 2022 I had no idea that it's limited what people could say in the streets as far as protests they're giving more money to police cracking down and then saying we're going to frack and we're gonna

[39:48] drill every piece of oil out of the UK and uh yes it's a little frightening it sure is and the extinction Rebellion which is this great group who is trying their best to raise yes about climate change um which is appeals to every rational intelligent human being that the idea of biodiversity makes sense it's important yeah um there were they were called a terrorist group and they had to go to court in order to get that that type of attractive I I I spoke at their um their big event

[40:21] in uh I think it was in November December last year in Berlin they're a terrific group there's nothing terrorist about them quite nice young people ridiculous yeah so okay well it's good to know that I'm not alone in my kind of apathetic like here I am drinking as much wine as I can in life living my best life now John kiriaku approves good um so I got one more question for you

[40:53] um actually that was the uh that was the last question so I'll I'll just ask you um what are some of the main topics that are on your mind at this moment what are you covering on your radio show and uh how can we help your your cause oh thank you thank you very much um well I'm on Facebook John kiriaku k-i-r-i-a-k-o-u I'm on Twitter at John kiriaku um my radio show is called political Misfits it's at

[41:24] um sputniknews.com you go to the bottom of the page and the link is there or we're on Rumble it's it's both audio and video on Rumble um you know I'm concerned about probably the same things that you're concerned about I I'm deeply concerned about about human rights and Democratic processes which I believe are are under great threat and it doesn't matter who's in the White House the Democrats are no better than the Republicans you know it's funny to me I I challenged my best

[41:55] friend from high school the other day he and I talk all the time and he's a total Trump Republican and he he said something about um the Democrats radical agenda and I said Gary I gotta ask you what's radical about it and he just looked at me and I said seriously though what's what's radical you keep calling it The Radical agenda and and that's a pretty strong word what is it that's radical and then he says well you know like the whole Green New Deal thing

[42:28] and I said that that doesn't even make any sense but what is it that's radical about the green New Deal and he goes I don't [ __ ] know and I said you watch Fox News too much there's no difference between the Democrats and the Republicans except on the fringes they're both right of Center parties one's just farther right than the other both around both are corporate both both are corporate I said man with all due respect I said you wouldn't know a radical if you walked up and introduced himself yeah

[42:59] you were up on Tucker Carlson and you were just like this is my position I don't necessarily agree with you but I'm just here to try to like talk about if somebody was yes yes and you know what I've struck up a friendship with Tucker he and I disagree on 99 of all issues sure but he is a lovely guy he gave me his he gave me his cell phone number after my second or third time on the show we went out for beers he's a lovely guy he's nutty on some issues sure he's

[43:31] nutty on a lot of issues but you know when it comes to whistleblowing and transparency he's up there with the best of them I love it because sometimes this political Spectrum you get right and left and then you start coming around to libertarian and right anti-firing and then you you meet somewhere that's right that's the whole spectrum is is not a straight line it's a circle and it meets at some point I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees it yeah well we're going to let you go I mean

[44:02] we're going to have you back I'm going to bother you now I got your email you got a friend for life hero I always subscribing what you do so let's wave goodbye to all these folks out in TV Land bye everybody thanks for having John kiriako on the show
