Title: DeProgram Show with Ted Ra
Show: DeProgram Show with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas
Date: 2025-11-04
URL: https://youtu.be/v9O8Ad-nL3Y
Duration: 57:00

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[00:00] Morning. It's the program with Ted Roll and John Kuryaku. It's Tuesday, November 4th, 2025. It's election day in New York City, New Jersey, and across the nation. Uh, and we are uh looking forward to seeing those results. John, good to see you. >> Good to see you, Ted. It's uh it's election day here in Virginia as well. >> Excellent. So, lots to talk about. You know, John, um this morning when I woke up, I kind of noticed that the sun was a little brighter. >> Yes. I noticed that the birds were singing more beautifully than ever.

[00:32] >> Yes. And there was automatically an extra spring in my step. >> My my my cat's fur was glistening, almost sparkling. Um my my I just felt like probably my bank account increased a little bit. Um just everything just seemed brighter. And then I woke up to the news that the the dark lord had had passed onto whatever uh horrible dimension he resides in. >> Uh Dick Cheney of course is dead, former vice president and uh we'll get into uh

[01:04] you know his legacy. I'm sure you of all people have thoughts. I have many thoughts. The Bush years were very formative for both of us. Um so we're going to talk about Dick Cheney. We'll talk about uh Israel's very, as I called it, very wrong scandal. So, uh you can identify with this. Uh a top army lawyer uh ratted out the IDF for sticking a knife up a Palestinian's ass and sodomizing him. That got caught on video. Yeah. She she leaked it. She

[01:37] leaked it because nothing was going to happen to the rapists um and and basically attempted murderers. Yes. Um, and so they decided to do the right thing and put her in prison. Okay. Instead of giving her a promotion, >> the wonderful world of whistleblowing. >> Indeed. Like, well, we have so much in common with Israel that way. Uh, Chaos at the Heritage Foundation over Tucker Carlson's interview with Nick Fuentes. Um, Africa continues to blow up. I'm proud of our show for talking about Africa, you know, as much as it

[02:08] deserves. Maybe not enough, but uh, now it's Tanzania. Things are pretty crazy over there. We'll try to break that down for you. Um, you know, I just want to say I I came up with the AI generated thumbnail for the Dick Cheney thing. I just want to be clear that the idea that he's in in heaven with like the angel was meant to be a sarcastic joke. >> When I saw that, I was like, should I call Ted this morning? [laughter] >> No, he probably did it on purpose for some reason. I just thought it would be

[02:39] funny as [ __ ] because I didn't want to go with the obvious like he's turning crispy brown by now. >> Well, I wanted to say something, too. There's a there's a quote that is attributed to Mark Twain. It is attributed incorrectly to Mark Twain. People believe that Mark Twain said, "I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure." >> Yes. >> Clarence Darrow actually said it. >> Oh, that's great. and he should get credit for it. But that was literally the first thought in my head when I

[03:09] rolled over this morning to see what the push notification was on my phone and it said that Dick Cheney was dead. Like you've said, uh, Ted, um, you know, we all have thoughts about Dick Cheney. I've been in meetings with Dick Cheney in which I have like feared for my safety. >> Wow. because he would lose his [ __ ] like a crazy person in these meetings and then he would get up and storm out and then everybody would be like, "Okay, well, back to work." And then they would

[03:39] get up like it was normal to treat people like that. >> Wow. And when it came to, let's let's enumerate them. The assassination program, the torture program, the rendition program, the secret prison program, literally all of it was Dick Cheney. All of it. It was all his idea. And they were all implemented by people who were close to him. That's his legacy in this country. His

[04:10] legacy is is the stripping of the Constitution, ignoring of human rights, and uh making our country weaker while pretending that he was making it stronger. >> Yeah. I mean, he's the he's the hatchet man of uh neoconservatism, right? He's not a a neoconservative theorist like uh you know like some like uh like like well like like people who signed the original project for a new American century letter um you know uh like like

[04:44] a John Keegan type person. He's more um you know he was but he's the guy who really made it happen. He had this idea like literally as within hours of the attack on 911, he was approaching people in the White House saying like, "Okay, we're going to invade Iraq now." >> Yeah. >> Confused, right? Iraq. >> That's right. >> What did they have to do with this? What could they have had to do with this? >> Nothing. Literally. >> I mean, Saddam Hussein and Iraq hated Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda wanted to overthrow.

[05:16] >> Yes. Yes. Indeed. So I mean, so he was the biggest architect of of the lies. I mean him and Donald Rumsfeld uh the lie machine. Donald Rumsfeld had my favorite lies of my and there were so many to choose from. My favorite one was we know exactly where the WMDs are. They are north, east, south, or west of Baghdad somewhat. [laughter] You could look it up. >> You know, it's funny. Rumsfeld.

[05:47] Cheney was a Cheney was an intern in Rumsfeld's office when Rumsfeld was a congressman. That's how they met. Rumsfeld was a congressman, I think, from Illinois. [snorts] And Cheney really, really, really wanted to go to Washington. He was a he was from Wyoming. He had three DUIs in his past. Couldn't find a job, but really loved Rumsfeld. So he applied for this internship and he he got this low-level entrylevel internship in Rumsfeld's office and Rumsfeld really took to him.

[06:19] And then um when when Rumsfeld became Secretary of Defense for the first time, uh Cheney was in his first term in Congress. This was during the Ford administration. And Rumsfeld recommended to Ford, hey, you should hire Cheney as your chief of staff. He's a real tough son of a [ __ ] And so Cheney became Gerald Ford's chief of staff. Set himself apart in conservative circles once Ford lost to Carter and then came

[06:50] roaring back with uh with Reagan and Bush and the rest is history. >> That is Yeah. I mean that's that's the thing, right? The origin story of the Bushies really goes back to the Ford administration where all of those people came together. Um I mean I guess they didn't have much to do because uh for people who don't know like Jerry Ford was probably uh you know he he dealt with a uh 1974 huge Democratic sweep and so basically Congress wouldn't pass

[07:20] anything that he proposed and he wouldn't and he vetoed everything that Congress you know >> pass they called him president veto. >> Yeah. Nothing happened. I mean, basically all he he was basically widely known for the pardon and for whip inflation now buttons. >> Yeah, I still have mine. >> I still have mine, too. Um, you know, so uh question that came up from Fuso and I'm glad that he brought this up because uh uh he said uh thanks for the donation by the way. Over under number of years

[07:51] till Cheni is whitewashed as a good guy. I think it's zero. I think we're we're there right now. I mean already the media is uh whitewashing him as like you know he's a he was a he he was progay he came out in favor of his daughter which >> eventually eventually only because it split his family >> right >> not because he had any love of gays >> not [snorts] at all right he was very very right-wing in all the worst ways and uh you know and and he liked to fly

[08:22] fish who gives a [ __ ] that he liked to fly fish but they're trying to humanize this bastard Um, I mean, and he was just, uh, you know, I mean, I I thought there's so many things to say about Dick Cheney, all of them mostly bad. My favorite was that Bush put, you know, basically picked him as the head of his vice presidential search running mate search committee, uh, because he wanted someone, you know, he's like he didn't really know who to choose. And um so he so Jeanie finally was like well I looked

[08:53] around and I'm thinking me and that's literally how he became he was the head of he picked himself. >> Yeah he did. >> So >> yeah he did and you know there's >> what kind of man >> in the movie Vice there's a there's a scene where where Bush is asking him to be vice president where where Cheney made it look like it was Bush's decision. So he said, "Well, I would want to be in charge of foreign affairs, defense policy." Bush says done. Energy

[09:24] policy, trade, uh, done. Uh, tax policy, the environment, done. And then he's like, "Okay, then we have an agreement." >> And also he wanted like really frequent meetings, right? Like like >> Yeah. You know, that's another thing. It's it's rather unusual for the president and vice president to meet more often than once a week. Usually, they'll have breakfast together on a Tuesday and then go over what the rest of the week is looking like. Cheney and Bush met every single day in the Oval

[09:58] Office for the president's daily brief and then Cheney essentially would tell Bush, "This is what is happening in foreign policy. This is what's happening at DoD." you know, Cheney was obviously clearly the president. >> Did I mean, yeah. No, I think I think anyone who lived through that period has to agree with that. Um, I mean, I guess, you know, I want to be fair here. To what extent was Bush responsible? I mean, was Bush a dupe or was he or did or was he just lazy or is it something

[10:30] else that happened in this dynamic? I hate to say it, but in my own personal experience, and I saw them interacting with each other, and and I I mean, you know, my positions at the CIA at the time, I I had access to these guys all the time. Bush was a dum dum. I hate to say it, but there's no other way to say it. He was just an idiot. He was like the village idiot who somehow found himself in charge of the village. And so Cheney knew that. Cheney took advantage of it. and Cheney put himself in charge

[11:01] and made it look like Bush was in was in charge. >> That's Yeah, I mean it's it's really kind of insane. And you know, and then he talked the American people. Well, I mean, a lot of them talked to the American people, right? And they all had their roles, right? Coen Powell closed the deal with that speech in front of the United Nations with the fake vile. >> Absolutely right. Um, I've always thought, you know, my my fantasy, John, was that uh in the Hollywood version of that, and I bet I bet Coen Powell had this dream at least once before he died.

[11:32] Um, you know, he starts to give the speech. They told him, "Go up there and do it." He knew it was all [ __ ] at the time. It was reported that he spent the weekend really angry and frustrated when he read over all the evidence and he was like, "There's nothing here." And at one point, he threw it all up. I don't remember if it was Time or Newsweek. One of them reported that he threw everything up in the air and said this is all [ __ ] But he went out there and did it anyway because >> when Cyrus Vance was Secretary of State and the president told him to say something he didn't believe in. Cyrus Vance resigned.

[12:02] >> Co should have resigned. >> And that's and and he could have done it at the UN. What if he had gone to the UN and just said they sent me out to they sent me out here to lie to the American people and to the people of the world and I will not do it. >> [clears throat] >> He would have been president in 2004. >> He would have been president. You know, Larry Wilkerson is a friend of many of ours, right? And Larry was Colin Pal's best friend and his chief of staff when he was the secretary of state. They came up through the military together. They

[12:33] served for years together in the military. And then when Ronald Reagan was president, Colin Powell went from Lieutenant Colonel to fourstar general in four years. Like George Washington didn't get promoted that quickly, but Reagan took to Colin Powell and made Colin Powell somebody. And Larry will tell you that in their private moments together, Colin Powell would admit that he was in over his head. He shouldn't have been

[13:04] promoted so quickly and that he was weak when it came to the weapons of mass destruction debate. Colin Pal said to Larry at the time and said in his memoirs years later that he should have resigned that he ruined his reputation by going along with what Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld wanted him to say. Yeah. And it was the gravest mistake of his life. I think that was in his character. I think frankly, John, John, that was baked into his character.

[13:35] Because he was the PR flack who was put in charge to go out and sell [ __ ] about the Mi massacre during the Vietnam War. Go out and tell the press the line of [ __ ] about like nothing happened, nothing to see here. This is why I have always said that I don't think military officers especially generals should have cabinet level positions anywhere because how did they make four stars? They made it by saying yes sir for 30 or 35 years. And

[14:09] what you need in positions like that is someone who has the guts to stand up and say Mr. President that is a terrible idea. Let me explain to you why. And that was not Colin Powell. >> No, it wasn't. John, we've got an ad, so I'm gonna go ahead and read that. >> Okay. >> All right. Outdoor crew, if you're into fishing, camping, or getting off the grid, meet your new best friend, the Hunter Orange 25Q cooler from Catis Sports. This isn't your average cooler. It's roto molded for max durability. Bearproof, and 20% lighter than other

[20:54] be a book blurb [ __ ] People ask me all the time. Oh yeah. I was like, you know, if I could help you sell your book, unless it's something I really despise. >> Sure. >> Yeah. I never say no to book blurbs. I've written a dozen of them, I guess. [clears throat] Happy to do it. >> Yeah, totally. >> And I've written three or four forwards and afterwards and stuff for other people's books. Happy to do it. When my my my inclination whenever somebody asks me for something, even people I don't even know, my inclination is to say yes because you never know. You know, you

[21:25] spreading goodwill, maybe it'll come back to you. >> Phil is asking if we've both been do are we both doxed? Pretty lame thing to do to a person. Um I would I mean, you know, I would say I have not been I don't want to give anyone any ideas. I would say I've not been I look I get death threats. >> I get death threats. I got a half a dozen of them last week. >> Yeah, >> that was an unusual week though. >> But yeah, I haven't been doxed, but I get death threats with some regularity. >> I don't think doxing would do would do anyone any good since I don't work for

[21:56] any like >> mainstream organizations that like would get pissed off at me or fire me or anything like that. Um, you know, my syndicate they, you know, >> to quote Jonathan Richmond, they know who I am. Um, they've they've had been dealing with me with my annoying ass since 1996. See? Um, so you know, I'm I'm Go ahead, Docs OA. You know, nothing's going to happen there. >> Same here. >> Uh, let's see. Um, FUZ wants to know what bands are lined up to perform at Robbie Aid.

[22:27] >> I don't know. Probably. I would imagine uh some right-wing bands. Not the Dixie Kit. The Chicks maybe. Aren't they just called the Chicks now? Something. >> Yes, they're the chicks because it's I guess uh racist to say Dixie. Oh, well this is funny. Uh, Rebellious Rainbow Unicorn. Nice to see you. So, we should write in published Darth Cheni's real obituary and publish it. Um, yeah. Now, I'm looking forward to seeing like what the New York Times has got going. Um, you know, I think they'll probably

[22:58] do a good job. Their obituaries are are legend. >> The the the New York Times always has the best obituaries. The post obituary today was generally factual. Slightly on the procheny side. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. God, that's crazy. I don't even know how you can do that. I mean, you know, his approval rating when he died was like one like 9% or something like that. >> See, >> he and Eric Adams. >> Yeah. Both of them. >> Um, couldn't >> Thanks for the donation, Phil Chats.

[23:29] >> In their own households. >> Phil Chats just gave us five bucks. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. Um would like our thoughts on hm frog shack gamers wants to know would like your thoughts on meshtast meshtastic and if private decentralized communication networks are the future to combat invasion of privacy. >> I I'm only peripherilally um aware of uh of these issues but you know we should have we should have Sean O'Brien on. He could walk us through it

[24:00] step by step. >> Let's do that. Okay. We will do that. F you. So, thank you for the buck. Uh, in case Cheney in the new Trump [laughter] White House ballroom coat rack or something. Yeah, maybe like in a like in a like in a like a bear attacking. >> Yeah, >> throw your coat on top there. Yeah, that's that. I could I could handle that. Um, here we go. Uh, Riz Rizwan Hassan 9757. Do I have to make an account on Rumble for us to benefit from watching videos

[24:30] on Rumble? Um, >> I don't think so. >> I don't think so either. >> I don't think so. I think just so long as you watch it, that's what counts. >> Yeah, we're Watch hours are king. We're gonna find out a little more about the the metrics here. Oh, uh, Katie Catastrophe, too. They people can never believe this is true, right? Oh, that [clears throat] there's chat GPT still has no record of me. Google says it's because of your controversial LA newspaper stuff. Yeah, that's not why. It's because of uh an article uh that I

[25:02] wrote in the Wall Street Journal making fun of Open AI and Sam Alman. >> Yes, without a doubt. Yes, >> because that's when it happened. I mean LA Times thing that was I was I was all over chat GPT and years after the LA Times thing was all over. Um have we seen Born to Battery wants to know, have we seen the SNL White House improvement skit? No. Um I've had a lot going on. Uh, but I'm uh I I need to catch up on that. I always SNL to me is it's it's

[25:33] it's a shitty show. I mean, I just got to say it's kind of it's always been a shitty show, but there's always like one skit >> that you should kind of watch. >> They're never that it's never that good. >> No, >> but it'll have moments. I can't believe this shitty show's been running for 50 years. Like, >> you know, on a on the plane the other day, I was flying back from somewhere Mexico, I guess. I was flying back from Mexico and and I'm going through the you know the entertainment on the back of the seat and there was um there was

[26:04] something about uh needs more cowbell you know the famous skit with Christopher Walkin needs more cowbell >> here's how desperate Saturday Night Live has become >> it was it was an hourong documentary on the skit >> what needs needs more cowbell >> ridiculous That's how desperate they are. And then they the people that they're interviewing were like, "Oh, uh, yeah." Are you You're saying

[26:35] you're making a documentary just on the skit? >> This was good. Yeah. It's not It's not like that documentary they made on that uh The Aristocrats, you know, about the joke. >> No. No. That's right. The joke, >> right? The worst joke in the world or the most >> The aristocrats. >> The dirtiest joke in the world. Yeah. >> Yeah. I I mean I don't understand like the I mean SNL makes me actually crazy. It's literally like is there something wrong with me that like I'm just stone cold like just not laughing while I'm watching this and what does every what

[27:07] is it that everyone else sees that I don't see and it makes me crazy. uh toward that end like a few months ago I went back and I started watching SNL from starting with season one episode one and uh you know it's and it's kind of like okay it was better then >> but it wasn't that great. >> No >> really. >> No. >> And it's all that's a good way to put it. That's a good way to put it. It was better then but it was never really great. Like you say, you can pull out individual hilarious skits and put them

[27:38] together in a best of DVD, but >> now Carol Bernett's show was hilarious. >> Great. [laughter] >> Yeah. Like Yeah. And consistently. >> Yes. >> I mean, you know, even in living L living color >> that had a lot of good [ __ ] >> A lot. and and made people giant stars. >> Laughing a lot of funny [ __ ] [clears throat] >> Classic. >> Yeah. >> So, I mean, it's we can do humor. SNL >> Smother's brothers even. Yeah.

[28:11] >> I I just can't. Yeah. I mean, so yeah, and it's like Yeah, it's horrible. Anyway, um hell, someone should just do skits making fun of SNL. >> Uh what we All right, we got we got a half hour left here on our show. I I love how fast it goes, but um but then I hate how fast it goes. Um so what do you want to talk about? Heritage Foundation, Israel? >> Yeah, let's talk about the Heritage Foundation. Um there's a real there's a real split right now in the Heritage Foundation that appears to have been caused by Tucker Carlson. Tucker Carlson,

[28:42] you know, I I've said it a million times. He's a friend of mine, and he he said something to me the other day that made me very happy for him. He feels utterly unencumbered by anything or anybody. He's rich. He's famous. He doesn't work for anyone. >> He controls his own destiny. >> Controls his own destiny. He's got the Tucker Carlson network. He can say whatever the [ __ ] he wants to say. And people don't like that. And at the Heritage Foundation, they don't like it because he had Nick Fuentes on the other

[29:12] day. Now, me personally, I wouldn't have had Nick Fuentes on, but that's just me. I don't know what I'd want to say to the guy. He's only like 25 years old. Yeah. >> He he became a household name because of his racism. >> Um so I wouldn't really have anything to say to him, but Tucker had him on >> and um and in the course of the conversation they kind of pulled the Heritage Foundation in and uh it's it's gotten ugly the last couple of days. >> Well, so the her I mean so it's strange,

[29:42] right? So, the Heritage Foundation is a right-wing think tank, most notably uh recently for Project 2025, but >> it it's the best funded right-wing think tank in America. >> It also is is what Obamacare came out of, right? Obamacare, I mean, Heritage came up with Romney Care, which became the AC, the Affordable Care Act. Um, but it was like sort of like above, it used to be above or it seemed to be above the GOP fray. It was like conservative

[30:12] rather than Republican. >> That's correct. >> Now it's Republican. >> Yes. >> And um and that seems to be that seems to have been a mistake. I bet >> the same thing happened at Liberty University where it it was they were very proud to say that they would turn out conservative Christians and now they say that they're proud to turn out Republican Christians. >> That's Yeah, that's always a mistake. Same >> yeah same thing with like uh >> when uh when there's you know there's far fewer similar organizations on the

[30:42] left among liberals but uh you know when they become democratic organs I mean I feel like that happens like the nation became democratic as opposed to >> very much so >> progressive >> that's exactly right >> and once that happens you're you're [ __ ] done all right so what exactly is this about right so basically Tucker interviews Nick Nick Fuentes so [ __ ] what I mean Okay, I understand why people would get upset, particularly liberals. Yeah. Um, you know, um, I I interviewed when I was when I was at had

[31:13] my radio show in LA at KFI, I interviewed David Duke for three hours. It was supposed to be an hour and it was just it was going so great with all the lots of calls. I was just like, keep going, keep going, keep going. It's a fantastic three hour, you know, great. I mean, here's, you know, you don't really know much about David Duke. You listened to those three hours though, you definitely understood why he actually really was dangerous because he was so charismatic, so funny, so intelligent. Yeah. Um, and so very dangerous guy. Um, good-looking, too. And fun and, you

[31:43] know, I I liked him. That's a funny I mean, I hated everything he had to say, but I liked him. >> Um, so I mean, isn't isn't that just uh is Dwat Tucker guilty of doing journalism? I mean, I like you, I wouldn't have interviewed Nick Fuentes because I don't really think there's much to learn about this little pipsqueak. >> No, I agree. And we have a a question from um Craig D. Vance who says, "Honestly, why do you guys support Carlson after all the stuff he did on Fox?" Honestly asking for me personally,

[32:13] he was he he has consistently been one of my strongest supporters from the very beginning from my from my arrest. And um just secondarily um he was one of the first Republicans to really call the Israelis out on on human rights abuses in in Gaza and the West Bank and I had respect for that. Plus he's a very sweet guy. You know, you you don't have to agree with everything. I actually disagree with most things. That's something that he said on his show. He

[32:45] said, "You and I probably disagree on 90% of the issues." But he said, "I like you and we're friends." That's how I feel about him. >> Now, I've never met Tucker Carlson. I've never been on a show. Would love to be. Uh, but the thing is that he's uh, you know, I mean, I've watched him for years and you know, I used to find his bow tie stick really annoying. U, generally people with bow ties, it's like, why are you wearing a bow tie? My best friend Scott's dentist when I met him, he used to wear bow ties. I was like, why the [ __ ] are you wearing bow ties? U, but

[33:15] that said, uh, yeah, it's just same, you know, same thing. Look, he strikes me as a guy who has integrity, which is to say not that he's always right. No. >> But that he is trying to find out what the truth is within, you know, the the limits of we all have our limits of politics and personality and and so on. And that's to me that's all I can ever ask. And here's the I mean he's one of the rare media personalities who ever admits when he's mistaken. So, um, you know, so I wouldn't say I support him,

[33:48] but I would be like, I respect him, which is more important. >> Yeah, that's how I feel. >> Yeah. And I I think one of the reasons why conservatives are afraid of him right now is because he is way more powerful in media than he ever was at Fox. and um and because he's given the Israelis [ __ ] and the Israelis aren't sure how to react to it >> and Lord knows they [ __ ] deserve it. Yeah. Um Oello has a question for us. I

[34:18] don't know. Uh they want he wants to know our thoughts on uh Zoran Mandani. Um well um the elections today he's going to be the mayor of the city of New York. He's going to be a boy mayor, 34 years old. He's going to about to defeat Andrew Cuomo who's 67 years old. Uh and the former governor, three-term governor of the state. Uh you know, political lion is that's pretty much I think going to mark the end of Cuomo's uh political career. I mean, I could see, by the way, if there were a Democratic president in the future, I could see Cuomo ending up

[34:48] on the cabinet. Um easily. >> Sure. >> Uh you know, >> I could see I could see Cuomo ending up in a Republican cabinet. >> I could see that, too. Oh, by the way, Donald Trump just endorsed Cuomo. >> I saw that. yesterday afternoon. >> By the way, that's the death of him. >> Kiss of death done. >> Yeah, that's just just five points just of his 25 just evaporated in >> and Curtis Lee was like, "Fuck you, Trump." >> Yeah, that's [laughter] No, that's disgusting. What did Curtis Leewa do to deserve that? Curtis Leewa is the

[35:19] Republican >> Republican nominee. >> [ __ ] Donald Trump. That's so That's so [ __ ] wrong. But >> I bet Cuomo's even thinking, "Fuck Donald Trump." Um, you know, because it's also one of those things like if it was going to do any good, it might have done more good months ago. That's right. >> Um, I think Mandani is a promising young man. He's definitely in over his head. He's 34 years old. Um, hopefully he'll surround himself with um some some smart and uh good people. Um, you know, I think he seems he seems smart enough to know what he doesn't know. What do you

[35:50] think? >> Yeah, I think that's right. And you know, one of the things that has been largely ignored about Mamani is that he has surrounded himself with very smart people, many of whom, and this is something the media I think are are purposely ignoring, many of whom happen to be Jewish. And so this nonsense that he's an anti-semite, um I think is not is not working. There I saw a clip yesterday from one of the early mayoral debates where there were

[36:22] like six candidates and the question was where will your first if when you're elected mayor where will your first foreign trip be like Israel Israel Israel Israel Israel and Mamani said um I am happy to meet with Jewish voters in all of the five buraus my job would be to be as mayor of of uh uh New York, not to enact a foreign policy like I'm secretary of state. If if uh constituents happen to

[36:55] be Jewish, I'm happy to meet with them. If they happen to be Muslim or happen to be Christian, I'm happy to meet with them. Their religion makes no difference to me. And then they start screaming with Cuomo being the loudest. That's anti-Semitic. You don't support Israel. Screaming. It's like, no, that's not at all what he said. He's going to be mayor of New York. He's not going to be secretary of state. >> No. >> So, who cares where his first trip is going to be? >> Well, and you know who who kind of gets

[37:25] to decide this is New York's high Jewish population. >> Exactly. >> And guess what? New York's high Jewish population overwhelmingly supports Mamani. >> Yeah. It's crazy. >> So, they do. In fact, you know who else in the entire the Jewish population of the United States is opposed to Israel and prob ballast Palestinian now. >> Game over Israel. You guys are finished. You're done. Like >> that is right. >> So all right. So do do we want to move on past? So let's talk about Israel. It

[37:56] seems like a good place to to transition here. >> Yeah. Um, so Major General Yafat Tomer Yeser Shami uh is a top army lawyer I guess. Would you say that she was a JAG kind of like a top Jag? >> Yes. >> Equivalent. So she basically um got came across a well she was she was on she had access to the surveillance tape that showed IDF soldiers um at at this notorious torture facility. I don't know

[38:26] how you pronounce it, but today tan. Um, but basically uh they were sodomizing a Palestinian uh uh prisoner with a knife. Um, not shockingly, he was uh severely injured and had to be uh go through numerous surgeries. He got rectile perforation and they fractured his his ribs. He's lucky to be alive. >> Yeah, he's lucky to be alive. And um anyway, so shock shockingly and strangely, rather than uh having a

[38:58] grateful nation uh thank thank her and say, "Well, thank you for uh you know, revealing this." She sent this to the media because obviously nothing was happening internally. Um most of the country, which has gone so far rightwing that it's crazy, they're pissed at her >> and um and they want her to stay in prison. uh another former prosecutor, Matan Solomesh, also um is in prison for related charges. Um you know, so and

[39:30] then Netanyahu's allies are saying things like now we can resume the lynch. In other words, they want to they you know, there was some thought that she might have committed suicide. She kind of like van v vanished and she went off to the beach. and that that whole episode sort of feels like uh you know being on the Appalachian Trail if you remember that episode. Um but who knows what was going on here. Look you the stress can absolutely make you contemplate suicide. Um you know you and I have talked about that and uh we've both been there. Um so so basically

[40:04] I don't know. I mean you're a whistleblower. You I mean >> Ted >> Don't you What did you Go ahead. When I when I blew the whistle, it was in December of 2007 and I was unprepared for the media storm that that ensued. Um, I gave an interview to NPR. I I was in a hotel room in Dallas, I remember, because my boss had summoned me there to fire me. I

[40:34] was at Deote and Touch. I ended up suing them and I won. Um, but he summoned me to Dallas to fire me. And before I went into the office, you know, knowing this was going to be a bad day, I gave this interview to NPR. And um, Senator Roy Blunt was the other guest on the show. He was uh, at the time the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee and he said just straight out, "I want to see you hang from a tree."

[41:06] And I thought, "Oh my god, this is this is the chairman of the intelligence committee and he's calling for me to be executed or lynched. I mean, at least if you're executed, you get a trial, right?" And I thought, "Oh, I this is this is going to be way worse than I thought it was." And so I can understand what she's going through right now. you you speak the truth because you believe that that the American people or in the the case of this woman, the Israeli people deserve

[41:36] the truth, right? You see your role as a whistleblower as one of keeping the government honest and then the response is to call for your death. So, I know exactly what she's going through. This is going to be a very difficult road and and it's going to be, you know, it's going to be years. It may be forever before they appreciate what it is that she did. I appreciate what it is that

[42:07] she did, but she's she's in for a real [ __ ] storm. >> John, I I've always wanted to ask you this question, and I'm glad it this comes up now. um when you when when you know that like there's going to be uh you know this big [ __ ] show and it's going to big media [ __ ] storm around you >> and [clears throat] it's going to be basically it's going to come down to people who are going to say good for John Kuryaku for exposing torture. Thank God for him versus people who are like

[42:39] [ __ ] him. He betrayed his oath. Um you know what matters is we got to protect the secrets of the US government. you're kind of take you're kind of placing a bet right on on that a sizable majority or maybe at least a good plur uh you know plurality of the American people are good people that they're going to see the obvious moral choice here um that of of which what's right what's more important is not to is being opposed to torture and stopping torture that's more important than safeguarding

[43:10] government secrets that are basically secrets involving the fact that you're torturing Um, were you were you ever disappointed that the American people didn't respond more or like I mean I always think like Ed Snowden he he [clears throat] said that he was trying to start this national conversation about privacy and NSA surveillance and like you know he was he wanted to give the American people a chance to raise hell and put pressure Congress and put a stop to it. Obviously, the American

[43:41] people fell down on the job and did not do that. And we are worse off than we were in 2013 when he did that. Um, >> yeah, >> LA Times, I was not disappointed. The people of Los Angeles came to my support. Um, and and and and I mean canceled their subscriptions and they were pissed and they're like that. The people of LA like, you know, I I'm so grateful to them. >> That's awesome. >> How did you feel about I mean, how did it go? Like do you did you feel like you know like okay it's it's kind of like up

[44:12] to the public now? How do you feel like they did if you had to give them a grade? >> I would I would give him a D. I really would. It I mean now it's great. Now it's it's you know an A minus or a B+. It'll be it'll be an A when I get a pardon. But but no, it in the beginning in the beginning um it's like the the whole government fell on my head and I couldn't get I couldn't get out from under it. And then I'm

[44:43] facing, you know, 45 years in prison and the FBI's following me and tap my phones and they're intercepting my emails and my friends stop talking to me and some of my relatives stop talking to me. I'll tell you what, my mom has my mom has my mom was one of nine children and only two are still alive. One lives in Greece and the other lives in Youngsttown, Ohio. And um I don't speak to him. And the reason I don't speak to him is because one of my cousins called him

[45:15] when I blew the whistle and said, "We have to step up for Johnny." All my cousins call me Johnny. So she says, "We have to step up for Johnny." And my uncle said, I told him years ago that he should just keep his big [ __ ] mouth shut. My own uncle said this. He said, "What he brought on himself, he brought on himself and that was it. He walked away from me." And now it's like, "Well, why why doesn't Johnny talk to me? Johnny talked doesn't talk to you because he knows what you said about him in 2007 and he doesn't like or respect

[45:48] you, >> asshole." >> Yeah. >> Um, Mr. out straight says to uh I thought to you I thought your advice on depression you gave on your own show Deep Focus was very good and poant maybe share it with the viewers here Ted's input would be interesting too >> somebody asked me I do Q&As's for deep focus um oh once a week or once or two weeks every two weeks whenever somebody puts a question in the in the chat like we have here um we we pull it out and I do a 30 45 minute session just answering

[46:20] questions so somebody asked me the other day how I dealt with the depression and I said frankly the easy answer is that my life was saved by by 10 milligrams every day of venaxine effect literally saved my life. I also had something called um transcranial magnetic therapy which was incredible. It it was brilliant, fantastic. Um but you know, every once in a while like like everybody you find yourself falling

[46:51] into depression for one reason or another. Sometimes there's no reason. Sometimes I just wake up and I feel a little bit depressed. Maybe it's a dream that I had that I don't even remember what it was. And so what I said on the on deep focus was you got to put yourself first. And maybe that means taking a couple of hours and going for a long walk, you know, listen to music. Uh go to a movie, call a friend, [clears throat] >> something, anything to distract

[47:22] yourself. >> Get out of your head. >> Just get out of your head. Exactly. And for me, that actually has worked. >> Yeah. I mean, I've never been on on drugs, on meds. Um I I kind of just well, I've never it's never been suggested to me, so therefore it's not likely been a choice. Um I did um I did talk therapy for years. Um and uh I was diagnosed with uh PTSD over the LA Times thing. Um >> without a doubt. >> And uh >> I would be shocked if you told me that

[47:53] you didn't have PTSD from the LA Times. >> For sure. Um and and and I think that the therapist was really shocked by just how much out and she was very experienced. Um EMDR turned out to be really helpful for me. >> Yeah, I've heard very good things about EMDR. >> So I I strongly recommend that. Um I'm not I don't look I don't suffer from sort of chemical depression at all. Um I'm not one of those people who I'm a pretty upbeat person. So for me it's situational. If something really really

[48:24] [ __ ] bad happens to me or someone I care about. >> Yeah. >> Then I can, you know, like when I was caregiving for my mother who was dying of Alzheimer's for years. That was rough because I'm an only child. It was just me and her. There were no other relatives. Um I was, you know, they knew they got to know me at LaGuardia at the same little gate that flew to Dayton. It was like, "Oh, Mr. Raw, nice to see you again." I'm like, "Uhhuh." Just trudging along. >> Yeah. Depression's not been my problem. My problem has been anxiety, but it's

[48:54] paralyzing anxiety. Paralyzing. You know, I went to see this um this shrink. I only saw her one time because I didn't like her, but um her entire practice is just [ __ ] up former CIA people. So, she's cleared so you can speak freely and all that stuff. She probably rats you out to the agency anyway. But I I went to see her one time and she said that um she said, "I find it fascinating that you have no PTSD

[49:27] from the agency. You have no PTSD from um prison, >> but you have crippling [snorts] PTSD from your divorce." >> And I said, "Yeah." I said I that I could have predicted that because they teach us in training not to trust anybody and I allowed myself to trust one person. >> Well, and I you know it's not a great it's not a great Julia Roberts movie and

[49:57] I I like Julia but Sleeping with the Enemy is a great name for a movie about a [ __ ] up marriage. >> Got that right. >> That's literally what you're doing and it's like it's really disturbing. It's one thing to be like, you know, the [ __ ] whether it's the agency or, you know, the newspaper publisher, but they're outside of your house. >> This is like you can't even go into your happy home and be left the [ __ ] alone. >> No, no, no. And then you get the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee saying that you should be executed,

[50:28] >> which did nothing for my mood. >> That's always, by the way, very bizarre to me when like really highprofile people punch down like that. Tom Tols was the long-standing editorial cartoonist at the Washington Post. At one point he did a cartoon the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the whole joint chiefs of staff. They drafted a letter calling for to poor Tom fired from his job. He didn't like his little cartoon. I'm like, YOU GOT BIG MILITARY GUYS like invade foreign countries all the time

[51:00] and you're scared of a cartoonist? My when my first book was coming out, um my editor said, "Hey, let's ask George Tennant for a for a blurb." And I said, 'George Tennant's not going to send a blurb. He hates me and I hate him. No, no, let's ask anyway. So they reach out and uh and George Tennant writes back and says, "I wouldn't do anything for that asshole." And I said, "That's the blurb." >> Yeah. >> Let's let's publish that on the back cover. And they were like, "No, no, no. We can't do that. This isn't a joke.

[51:31] It's a serious book. Like, all [laughter] right, >> humor. Okay. You can never really have enough humor. We got to talk about Africa. Um before we wrap up here at the top of the hour. >> Yeah. >> Tanzania. So, um I did decided to So, uh there's riots. Um once again, we have another [ __ ] up election. President Samya Suhu Hassan, first female president of Tanzania, um just took office um with 98% of the vote. I suppose it's possible for someone to be super super super super super popular,

[52:02] but that doesn't appear to be the case there. And the people of Tanzania totally seem to not think that's the case. Um >> there's riots going on. Everything's closed down. There's martial law. Um over a thousand protesters have apparently been gunned down in the streets. The word is that bodies are piling up on the streets and uh the repression is rampant. Even the Pope has chimed in. Um, so John, I'm kind of like, okay, so ideologically, I wanted to know sort of who's what here, right?

[52:32] So, um, Samya Sulu Hassan is from this long-standing ruling party that's been in charge of Tanzania ever since independence pretty much. And, uh, it's easy to say, well, this is obviously a [ __ ] um, you know, election has to be, >> right? That said, I was like the thing, you know, but I always get suspicious when American media, let's say, well, the opposition party, Chadima, has been banned and they quote them. I was like, well, who is this opposition? And it's really uncomfortable for my side. I hate

[53:04] this as a leftist, but basically the opposition is center right >> and Hassan is a lefty like a basically African pan-African uh liberationist uh you know, sort of out of in the Gaddafi mold. Mhm. >> So, it's the uncomfortable place to be where the autocrat >> I'm more sympathetic ideologically to the autocrat and the uh and the person who's being suppressed is the center right, which I absolutely despise. >> Yes. >> What the [ __ ] Anyway, um what do you

[53:34] make of what's going on in Tanzania? >> Um I think that that the Tanzanians wanted to experiment again with um authoritarianism. thinking that it's like the 60s or 70s all over again. It's not. And uh and people are taken to the streets. A thousand dead so far, [clears throat] I think is uh they've gotten they've gotten off easy. I think that uh when

[54:06] the Pope weighs in, it's because things are going to get a lot worse. [clears throat] Excuse me. And um I think this is the the beginning, Ted, of um of uh political upheaval that we're going to see in Tanzania. You know, in the United States, at least in the US government, there's there's long been this belief that that um Tanzania is one of those democratic or pseudocratic West African

[54:36] countries that we can rely on. And it's not. It's not. it it has these fascist tendencies just like so many other countries have and uh I think it's going to get worse before it gets any better. >> Um are we going to see some sort some equivalent of an African spring? >> You know what? I hadn't thought of that but that's absolutely possible. Sure. It's absolutely possible >> with a ripple effect over postc colonial Africa. >> And and people people get to a point

[55:07] where they just they can't take it anymore. And and if you're hungry and you're oppressed, the only place to go is the street >> because I mean the center of gravity, right? Like in the postc colonial era was this sort of these, you know, former black liberation movements um that basically took over. Then we went into second and third generation like the sons and daughters of those uh sons and grandchildren of those leaders uh who were charismatic in the 1960s and 70s. And then the corruption got really out

[55:38] of control and now it's fullblown. Right. There's no there's not much left except just the slogans from that period. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That is right. >> Well guys, thanks everyone for tuning in. Just a reminder, please contribute to Robbie Aid. Uh it is I'm putting it up on the screen. Givego.comwestglacaming. Um, we are here Monday through Friday, 9:00 am Eastern time. Uh, little housekeeping. John and I will be back here Wednesday at 9:00 am. Showtime will

[56:11] be on Thursday, but Thursday, John, you're out. >> I'm out. >> So, friend of the show, and my best friend, Scott Stantis, uh, the editorial cartoonist for the Chicago Tribune, will be sitting in for John on Thursday morning at 9:00 a.m. And John will be back on Friday, rested and ready, I hope. And, um, we're looking forward to all that. Thanks. Uh, please stay tuned for the TMI show with me, Ted R, and Manila Chan. That's coming up right after this. And, uh, you can just, if you're in the Rumble chat, it'll just steal you and TAKE YOU WAY AWAY and you

[56:42] can never escape. Well, maybe that's not quite true. >> Enjoy. >> All right. Thanks everyone and take care. Now I Now I need to I need to hit our little end stream thing. Oh, yeah. No, I found it. Yay. Okay. Bye. >> [music] [music]
