Title: John Kiriakou: The Politics of CIA Whistleblowers — The Po
Show: Indie News Network (INN)
Date: 2023-05-13
URL: https://youtu.be/C6nIky-RSTw
Duration: 1:08:00

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[00:00] keep it off the Record consequently you can keep your record clear and if you mute the speech that shakes your frail beliefs you only seek to insulate your image and continue on the stream in the direction clout and credit steers directly from your mouth then to am I the [ __ ] at its ears directly back into the greasy pockets of some Gates Foundation financiers and then directly back into the Frantic final thoughts of early trial neuralink

[00:32] volunteers staring at the numb and mumbling vacancies were recently and the beers have the Boomer glitching with the memory stuck on pause and have to have zero [ __ ] clue just who they are or why they're here it's been said that fear is all we have to fear but that was back before the basil spear condenser came along distilling concentrating fear that's Diamond pure Crystal Clear oppressor strong and woven into every single article you read and song they let you

[01:03] hear and then Elon heard the Jeff enhanced our fears by 86 and he said hold my bear and not a single sheep along the herd but turn their head or say a word cause they were all too busy begging for the shears begging for the muzzle happy just y'all to feed and watch a screen through all their years manned each his own can't afford a home but they'll let you have your cozy little ecosphere where they're among your own devices you can break the

[01:35] seventh seal overthrow the oracles and slay the series tomes were burned and all the lips were seared shut your eyes in all our lives just disappear now blink them twice welcome to your ecosphere thank you

[02:08] [Music] thank you [Music]

[02:39] land of the free and you'll know us by the trail of dead it's just one more World War to complete the sack when you live by the pike you die by the pith you die wide-eyed still pleading the fifth or crying Divine empathetic sympathetic attempts and defense all empathetic for those on your side of the fence well I'll gladly put you and your legacy into an alternate tense a faltering senses and altered events like 100 ain't a hearse it's a Reaper stretch how sweet she said but your hordes in

[03:11] the street like it's Evil Dead where The Thin Blue Line meets Razor's Edge and where the corporate ladder ascends to a steel-toed boot that awaits on the ledge you'll be licking it fresh at your boss's request till it stops each finger and watches you fall to your death and drown in an ocean of debt gone with the father who gathered to honor the patient left who Purity tested themselves into sections step by step till the next election when it's just one damn and the sound of their well-read theorized breath

[03:42] that's harm reduction for the lowly cost of you holding your nose and just openly buying the theft maybe that's all in the flick of the pen maybe we're all one unmarked fan from a trip to the pan being guarded by pigs who exist on a diet of dying breaths of much worthier men honey Heaven's expecting you just don't get too hung up on who they let in just look up at the shine of the Pearly Gates you don't need to worry if there's lead in the paint you don't need to worry if there's lead in the water let

[04:12] in the milk letting the honey lead in the caustic Embrace of the heavenly father letters the flavor of passive Perpetual Slaughter let us the taste of us led to the ledge by The Lure of the legend of expert consensus and then beckon to stretch it just one step farther and I hope all the folks who are both fully gloating and toasting themselves as the heroes of coven for boosting their boosters and doing their part are now equally thrilled to be Starstruck Martyrs all laid in a government grave

[04:42] with Anonymous markers like your back from the Carvers and off to the splicer you're the very first wave to be slain in the war against Pfizer that Hundred Years War against Pfizer they are thinning the crowd that is striking right now to bleed adequate pay from those inhuman misers who all sit in their office and designate coffins the people regarded as nothing but profit for Kaiser still the dams want you nicer damn's what you softer dem's want you Kinder yeah they all want you graciously Starving in silence you will speak when

[05:15] you're spoken to rest of the time you want all of us peasants are merely depressing statistics neglected and congress's binders all blood bone dry then fed to the grinder our headstones line each step is reminders that's a lesson in object permanence learned in the furnace by workers consigned to the fire workers blood bone dry then fed by the FED to the grinder [Music]

[05:45] grinder now the fat went straight to your head mind what you hide in your size on sad and your eyes turn blow into the signs unread flag bright red so you let it in bed you let it inside you'll see that it's fed never you'll mind that it grinds your wealth into bread for itself then it bleeds you drive and it dines on the Dead fed went straight to your head mind what

[06:15] you hide in your size unsaid and your eyes turn blind to the signs on red flag bright red so you let it in bed you let it inside you'll see that it's fed never you mind that it grinds your wealth into bread for itself and it bleeds you dry then it dines on the Dead and the FED went straight to your head mind what you hide and your size unsaid and your eyes turned blind with the signs on red flag bright red so you let it in bed you let it inside you'll see that it's fed never you mind that it grinds your wealth into bread from itself bleach you dry then diamonds on

[06:47] the Dead but the FED went straight to your head mine would you hide and your size unset and your eyes turn blind to the signs on her end flat bright red so you loaded in bed you let it inside and you'll see that it's fed never your mind that it grinds your wealth into bread for itself and to bleeds you drive and the Diamonds on the dead here's where our leaders would see us all lead here's where our leaders would see us all lead here's where our leaders would see us

[07:17] all LED here's where our leaders would see us all [Music] leads [Music] for itself [Music]

[07:48] foreign here's where our leaders would see us all ladder [Music]

[08:27] foreign [Music]

[08:58] Legend says that Hercules swept Cerberus right off his feet and effortlessly set him down softly as a songbird Atlas kept the world upon his back and every day wondered whether he could stand at any longer and Tober Reed came out to say the man they tried to label the Messiah of morality was really just another rapist and I don't intend to hesitate when asked to was the stronger Taro like Assange knew that carrying the truth would be the hardest labor Tara knew

[09:30] that her assailant wasn't gonna make us any safer and knew he's just the type of man to hand a decent foreign leader U.S printed Walking Papers and knew he'd be relentless and aggressive in the war he'd wage upon her very character that his attempts to weaken and degrade and embarrass her would be her only compensation but I strongly doubt that anyone could ever have foreseen the stream of hate that came from quote-unquote progressives and the self-style titans of Survivor

[10:00] advocation so if you really think there's something to be gained out of sharing your pain with the world you are sorely mistaken the Biden team just drugged their feet addressing Tara's allegations until they had a decent list of smears then they aired them out on every station and it turns out no one wants to hear the truth of who they praised as being worthy of such bloated liberal celebration that no one wants to really know the person they've so validly defended even

[10:31] when it meant they had to gloat and [ __ ] all over someone braver than they'd be if given the occasion now cue The Faceless comment Squad Invasion cue those [ __ ] crawling out the woodwork to come analyze the way you wore your hair and what you wear like your appearance waves or rights or that somehow you're the reason for your situation somehow they've decided you should bear responsibility for what such monstrous men insist on doing somehow they're deluded by the empty hypocritical and useless [ __ ]

[11:02] platitudes that bastard keeps on spewing and I think it's very telling that the best of their excuses when they try to come and justify our president's abuses is the hearty butt Trump in which case I'll remind you that you never saw the news attempt to sell us Donald Trump like he was morally upstanding or a decent human but when Joe says something bigoted or Ogle someone's little kid CNN says isn't this refreshing binds like a mix of JFK and FDR with all the finer parts of Harry Truman

[11:34] Christ I know that they don't think that we're the brightest but at least pretend we got a couple lumens ask yourself if you have ever questioned what they fed you or do you 'd shut your eyes and then consume it and now ask yourself if you ate every one of Biden's lies under guys the harm reduction and the promise of a slight Improvement and now imagine long ago that Biden chose to show you who he really was by traumatizing you for his amusement now imagine that you watched him touch a

[12:05] Bible with those Filthy Hands and then assume the power of the highest seed in all the land of knowing your attacker wields a global Coalition born of three-letter agencies will make a life's Mission out of trying to discredit you through lies damn lies and collusion big Tech has never gonna separate from our surveillance State [ __ ] sakes they're just a breath away from Total Fusion so there will come a time where even if you see the light your voice will never reach the sky through all the Bots and

[12:36] all the noise pollution so trust us when we tell you that the masking of abuses is perhaps this country's oldest Institution and I know nothing nobler than facing it in honor of the truth when you know that the people holding power have been neutralizing truth since there was wedding on the Constitution so know that Taurus truth is something crucial to the movement and if you see yourself a partner to the revolution help this country see you

[13:06] through all the baseless propaganda through the Crux of Joe's illusions and recognize that Tara Reid gave everything she had so she could tell us what the truth is recognize the decent thing to do when someone Bears their soul and shows their bruises is not to ask for context or offer up your own Solutions your job is just to listen with an honest mind and put yourself on Tara's side a moment so you understand the path she chooses that there is no instant Fame worth the dragging of your name and

[13:36] if that's what you think you have a lot to learn about the kind of facts the mob can handle and the kind that it refuses you have a lot to learn about the news and all its many uses guess you've yet to learn the truth the news will serve as fruit from which they've squeezed out all the juices and we all eat the husk and just pretend it's full of nutrients in this doesn't really use

[14:12] [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome everyone welcome to the politics of survival I am your host Tara Reid and I have a really special show today and a guest that I really admire he is a CIA

[14:44] whistleblower um he is also the co-host of political Misfits he's an award-winning author a journalist he's an amazing person all around John karaoke thank you for coming to the show so happy to have you here thanks so much for that kind introduction happy to see you so here we are um in this political point in history where we're on the the verge of nuclear war our freedom of speech and freedom of

[15:15] press is at you know the greatest threat it's ever been with the imprisonment of Julian Assange and one of the things I wanted to mention in your intro was that you are a tireless and Loud advocate of Julian Assange so let's start there um and if you could lead in kind of with your whistleblowing and then what led you to um being such a strong voice for Julian well thanks for that you know nobody has ever asked me why I'm a supporter of Julian Assange and there's actually some background to it uh so my own

[15:47] whistleblowing was uh came as a result of my service in the CIA I spent 15 years in the CIA rose up quickly through the ranks I was the chief of CIA counterterrorism operations in Pakistan after 9 11. um I led the capture of Abu zabeta who we believed at the time to be the number three in Al Qaeda that turned out to not be true um I I'm sad to say that I stood alone in my opposition to his torture and went public with that information in December

[16:18] of 2007. uh as you might imagine the entire weight of the US government fell on my head and um and to make a very long story short I ended up serving 23 months in a federal prison as a result of my whistleblowing I have zero regrets like literally zero regrets and um have um advised other whistleblowers and would-be whistleblowers especially involved in the National Security uh in what to do

[16:49] or not do um I urge them to not make the mistake that I made by waiting to hire an attorney I tell whistleblowers that they should hire an attorney first uh an attorney who is skilled in whistleblower defense uh so that they have somebody sitting next to them literally when they decide to blow the whistle you know in the beginning Tara I I wasn't so much interested in Julian Assange I had a little bit of a personal problem with Julian in that

[17:20] the initial the initial cash of uh of documents released to WikiLeaks by uh by Chelsea Manning happened to include my social security number uh there was an obscure Cable in there about a trip that I was taking to the Middle East when I was working on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee staff and um as just part of the normal you know travel standard operating procedure I included

[17:50] my social security number and that was leaked to WikiLeaks now thank goodness nothing ever happened but it kind of made me angry and so I ended up going to prison a year later or a couple of years later anyway and uh when I got out I got hired by the Greek government to help them write a new whistleblower Protection Law so I connected with a woman by the name of Dr sulette Dreyfus who is the founder of an NGO based in

[18:24] Australia called blueprint for free speech well solet it turns out was also the co-founder of WikiLeaks with Julian um they went back decades together in Australia and um we were out for a walk in Athens one day after having spent the day with the the ministry of justice and she said to me why is it that you're not one of the big Julian Assange supporters I I never see you ever associated with Julian Assange again this is 2015.

[18:55] and I said well to tell you the truth I'm kind of mad that that my social security number was leaked in that in that tranche of information and I've heard from other people for whom I have great respect that Julian's got kind of a problem with women and uh you know I'm the father of a daughter I wouldn't want anybody treating my daughter that way and she said well you know I think that a lot of that just is simply not true I think the police put these women up to

[19:27] that and blah blah blah et cetera Etc so the more I looked into it the more I thought now that this is far more complicated than I had realized that it was and then talking to yet more people but I respect uh here in the Washington area especially people involved in the issues of transparency and freedom of speech and freedom of the press frankly I came to realize that um that

[19:57] in a way we're all I don't mean to sound like a cliche but in a way we're all Julian Assange that if we don't stand up for Julian Assange there's just not going to be anybody to stand up for us and if the government successfully prosecutes Julian Assange who's not even an American citizen by the way on on charges under the Espionage Act well then certainly the New York Times The Wall Street Journal The Washington Post any journalist involved in the National Security is next

[20:29] and once that precedent is set the government can do anything it wants so whatever differences I may have had with Jillian Assange I put behind me years ago and uh and I stand up for him just the same way that I know that he would stand up for me that's that's really interesting to hear and um as you're watching our um the the attacks under the Biden administration of our Free Speech I'm sure you're well aware of how doj and CIA and FBI are all being pretty weaponized with this

[21:01] Administration um to suppress truth like for instance with the hunter Biden laptop yeah and so I think Wikileaks and Julian assange's presence is greatly missed because you know um when the New York posts try to uh raise it up of course they were censored and and I guess last Monday we're disinvited to a Biden Administration event so they're they're even just excluding media well there's there's talk now that they're going to be excluded from the White House Newsroom which I think is even more

[21:32] dangerous uh I mean the New York Post you can agree or disagree with their editorial line but the New York Post is a serious journalistic Outlet yeah it is now I have a question about um you know as a matter of fact later today Kim Iverson's show um because you know I work as a producer on that show she did a long-form interview with chairman O'Malley and that's coming later today with a brewer group that's a long form hour interview he has been indicted and um is facing prison he's 80 years old

[22:03] he's been a um a black socialist activist for 50 years he has great Community programs in Missouri that are lifting up an impoverished Community there like Midwifery farmers market and all that um and they've just recently been indicted and I know you you might have heard about it Tucker Carlson covered it um as well thank goodness and Katie Halper did um to her credit um and you know these are for Americans that have no association with Russia and

[22:34] are being accused of of being under the pharah act and are facing prison um what what is your thoughts on that um and oh by the way part of the indictment says they were sewing Discord that's the reasoning now what does that sound like to you that sounds like a setup to me there are so many things wrong with this case first of all nobody ever heard of this group until the Biden Administration indicted them they were harming no one uh they were they were not violating the

[23:07] law or if they were there was no Criminal Intent which nobody seems to care about anymore whether or not somebody has Criminal Intent uh and and this goes he used the word weaponization a moment ago that's exactly what this is It's the weaponization of an obscure law something that many of us would call a throwaway felony or a process crime um administrative yeah it's administrative it's literally failure to fill out a form literally

[23:40] failure to fill out a form you go to the pharah website www.fara.whatever.gov and you fill out the form and if you forget oh my God it's a felony well first of all where's the Criminal Intent secondly no one has has uh proven that uh that they were put up to this by any foreign government the allegation is that it was somehow the Russians the Russians I I highly doubt the Russians would spend their time and their money uh

[24:13] trying to prop up a group that has but a couple of dozen uh members who are elderly and are seeking to do nothing but support their own communities and another thing too again coming back to this word weaponization if you look at the federal sentencing guidelines for um for a fire violation the sentencing guideline is zero to six months okay zero to six months

[24:43] not even in prison but in jail because the sentence is too short to qualify for prison right so number one why waste the taxpayers time and money Prosecuting a crime like that when you admittedly have no Criminal Intent and number two the pharah uh the pharah cases that the Trump and Biden Administration have prosecuted so

[25:14] far there have only been a couple but they have gotten in terms of sentences far beyond what the federal sentencing guidelines have called for for example Maria boutina who was who was convicted of uh Farah violation she was a graduate student a Russian national graduate student here in the United States she was a show yeah I've spoken to her a number of times and she and I are Facebook friends even right she she was a member of the Russian version

[25:46] of the NRA and she wanted to broker better relations between the NRA and this Russian gun organization they called that at the justice department of fire violation now instead of getting zero to six months she was given 18 months in solitary confinement right now anything over two weeks in solitary the United Nations has deemed to be a form of torture exactly

[26:18] and then as soon as she was released she was expelled well to me that's that's clearly a political sentence a political sentence on an administrative crime but that's the rabbit hole that we're going down and it's only getting worse and worse and worse and we're seeing it in this Florida case now yeah and what's interesting about that case is you know how they came across the Biden Administration is they um well actually part of the charges and the reason why they're saying five to ten too is because of the uh they're claiming election interference because

[26:49] they run for yeah right over but they had interrupted they had done an intervention right at a um an event that Obama was speaking at back when Obama was running and it was in a key black voting district and they disrupted and were criticizing all they were doing was criticizing Obama and that he wasn't really representing um African-American interests and that was a criticism and um you know according to you know their group at pretty much Biden's Administration has been targeting him ever since so I'll tell you if if I were

[27:20] a member of this group I would demand to go to trial no settlement talks no plea bargaining trial by a jury of my peers yeah I'd fight them you know and that's one thing so let's go to Edward Snowden because the reason why Edward Snowden won't come back is because he couldn't um he was a whistleblower and you know his case very well so I'll let you speak more eloquently about it but um he won't come

[27:50] back because he couldn't defend himself is what he's saying under the Espionage Act because could you explain that to the audience a little bit that when you're accused him Espionage you can't really defend yourself no we we don't have something called a proactive defense here in the United States when Ed Snowden uh first went public with his Revelations I wrote him two letters one was an open letter that I um sent to Ariana Huffington through my attorney and Ariana published it because I wanted to get his broad coverage as I as I could I wrote it from prison and uh and then I followed up with a

[28:21] private letter that I sent through a mutual friend who was going to Moscow to see him and first let me make an appoint I really really hate when people say that Ed Snowden defected to Moscow he defected to the Russians he was in the transit Lounge of Moscow airport on his way to Ecuador when John Kerry revoked his passport and invalidated it and so he was stuck there and couldn't travel Kerry should have let him go to Ecuador

[28:53] it would have been a lot easier to get him if if you wanted to get him but um it's just simply not true that he defected to the Russians uh okay with that said I followed it up with a private letter and I made several recommendations I I told him uh not to trust anybody like literally don't trust anybody because you just never know who is working for the FBI or who's going to rat you out to the FBI I told him to cultivate his natural

[29:25] allies especially those on Capitol Hill because those relationships would save him in the end and most importantly I told him to hire the best lawyers money can buy in fact I went on to say you should hire my lawyers because I had the best lawyers money could buy well he did hire my lawyers and um he told me and he told them as well that he was willing to come back to the United States he was willing to go on

[29:57] trial and willing to be found guilty and to be sent to prison for 20 years if he could stand up in court and explain why he did what he did it's called an affirmative defense and the justice department said absolutely not now he's telling them I'll give you everything you want and I'll take 20 years I just want to get up and say why I did it they said absolutely not and so he's

[30:28] not come home in the last couple of years he's gotten Russian citizenship his girlfriend who was going back and forth ended up marrying him and they just had their second child about a year ago um he's working for you know sort of the Russian version of Facebook he's a programmer there okay and uh yeah and he he has a perfectly happy life good for him I mean I I think you know he's a young person that didn't need to

[30:58] give his life in such a way because it's interesting how you know he got the message through that we're under Mass surveillance people know it it's like people accept it but they don't know what to do about it and and it's just getting worse and worse of course with social media as we know and um you know something that my audience knows and you may or may not know is that the doj has recently opened a a case or they took my Twitter Communications under sealed warrants and a Twitter attorney told me that this before Elon Musk they did that

[31:29] to me too yeah and then so there's this sealed case happening but I'm my name was apparently brought up and my communication is all sealed and taken there but I don't know what the case is about or if I'm the primary person or part of a bigger case or help or hurt me or I don't even know I know nothing my attorney couldn't find out no one can find out journalists have tried to find out and it was all I know is it was during the Biden Administration so it's been publicized that you know but yeah so what are your thoughts about like I'm

[32:01] just a private citizen I did come forward I was a senate staffer as you know I came forward about Biden with information but like what what happens when the law enforcement agencies that are supposed to protect us are actually protecting politicians like where are we we're in a very very difficult position and you know I I hate that we've become so politicized in this country but I would say to you or to somebody in a situation like the one you find yourself in that that you should run to Capitol

[32:33] Hill and engage with uh Senator Chuck grassley's office and maybe Jim Jordan's office um maybe um Senator Johnson of Wisconsin's office because you need high powered support this misuse of federal law enforcement is going to be the the demise of all of us you know the the purpose of something like this of a case like this is generally not to send Tara Reid or John kiriaku to

[33:06] prison for the longest possible sentence the the purpose is to bankrupt you and to ruin you both personally and professionally they have to me too yeah um so that they slap you down and at the same time they frighten any other would-be whistleblower into keeping his or her mouth shut yes the New York Times the New York Times journalists told me that on the day of my arrest literally every single one of the New

[33:37] York Times National Security sources went silent and they stayed silent for six months that's exactly what the government wanted now in my case I was facing 45 years I didn't get 45 years I got 23 months because I'm terrifying though it was terrible it was terrible it was either you know do I do I roll the dice knowing that according to propublica the justice department wins 98.2 percent of its cases or do I put a

[34:07] bullet in my head you know I had five children at home so what it ended up coming down to was um uh from 45 they came down to 10 and then eight and then five and they were stuck at five years for an entire year and I S I said no I'm not going to take five years I'm gonna go to trial and so we had a meeting with the justice department and they said look five years take it or leave it I said I'm gonna go

[34:38] to trial and I'm gonna testify on my own behalf and I might over the course of my testimony accidentally talk about some of the Hideous crimes against humanity and war crimes that I that I witnessed in 15 years at the CIA and then they came down to 23 months which I actually also turned down so they gave me 24 hours to to take it they said best and final offered 30 months you do 23. and my wife and I stayed up

[35:11] all night long literally all night long and we decided that I I'd turn it down and and we would go to trial because I I said naively that once I got in front of a a jury they would see how ridiculous this was and I would be acquitted and then finally one of my attorneys the one who I I liked and respected the most got literally right in my face he was Furious and he said you know what your problem is your problem is you think

[35:42] this is about Justice and it's not about Justice it's about mitigating damage take the deal and then the other attorney said look this could be a blip in your life or it could be the defining event of your life make it the blip and so I took the deal I think that that secondary advice is interesting um and you were put in such a difficult position um I admire your courage and the way you

[36:13] held your ground I can't I don't know if I would have that fortitude that is amazing fortitude that you had particularly with so many um people in your life that needed you present and you know supporting and being there and I'm glad that they were there for you thank you thank you they were so now looking back on that decision um and I know you said you have zero regrets you said that at the top of this conversation what um what do you do you feel like

[36:43] there was any impact by your whistleblowing has there been any change or movement that's been positive do you still feel there's a battle about the the torture techniques and what's wrong yeah there there will always be a battle always but I'm very proud to say actually I'll recount for you uh uh a story okay about six weeks before I was released from prison I called my my wife now now she's my ex-wife but I called my wife and um

[37:14] I was allowed to call every other day for 15 minutes so I called and I said hey how was your day and she said it was great and I said really great why and she said because the Senate uh the Senate torture report was released today and John McCain got up on the floor of the Senate and said that the country owed you a debt of gratitude that without your whistleblowing the American people would never have known what the

[37:45] CIA was doing in their name wow and that made it worth it the Congress um formally banned torture thanks to the McCain Feinstein Amendment and John McCain said that that was because of me and so sure there was a price to pay but this case you might one of my attorneys said this in the very beginning of the of the case he said this case is so much

[38:16] bigger than John kiriaku he said this case isn't about you you just happened to be the guy that is the face of it but this case is about human rights and civil rights and civil liberties that's why the media is so interested in it so was it worth like Banning torture in our country in exchange for 23 months in a low security prison you bet it was totally worth it you know I gave an

[38:46] interview to the BBC One Time and it was kind of a confrontational interview and about halfway into it the interviewer says you know one of the things that I'm struck by is that you're not showing any remorse or regret at all for your crimes and I said I have no remorse or regret I'll never have remorse or regret I would do it again I would do it again today somebody should have done it before I did it so no I'm not gonna express any

[39:19] remorse or regret because I don't feel it yeah you know and and you know it is remarkable how how your legacy has has really like Edward snowden's you raise the public Consciousness about things they simply weren't aware of and that in in of itself is a heroic act and Julian Assange the same yes Julian Assange is being punished now and basically in my you know eyes it's like he's being slowly executed in front of us right

[39:51] um and it's it's horrible but I think you know there was a glimmer of hope with that letter he just put out there um the new king of England when he it was a very thoughtful uh you know interesting letter that Stella had had you know published that he had written um now what are your thoughts about RFK has come on the stage running for office some people say that he's going to be a sheep herder he's going to take the independent votes and put them into the Democrats and in the end endorse Biden

[40:24] but there's something interesting going on he has said that he would uh pardon Julian Assange that he would have those charges drop the extradition and he would also do that for Edward Snowden and now Caroline Kennedy is apparently in talks with Australian officials about Julian Assange on behalf of the Biden Administration and there might be like this little Tit for Tat between Biden and RFK about like who lets Julian Assange go first which would benefit Julian Assange right and and Humanity in general what are your thoughts about

[40:54] rfk's run and the criticism of him being basically a sheep herder and and all of that regarding those two cases I'm proud to say that that I consider Bob Kennedy to be a friend and um he told me about two weeks before he announced his candidacy that he intended to publish those tweets about pardoning Julian Ed uh uh Jeffrey Sterling reality winner Daniel Hale Chelsea Manning and

[41:26] me and I I never brought it up and he wasn't in touch with any of the other whistleblowers he did it because he believes in it right he went public Because he believes that's the right thing to do um I think the world of Bob Kennedy I disagree with him on some issues I think you know it's just not possible to agree with the political figure on every single issue but he's a he's a

[41:58] truly good-hearted man he wants only what's best for the country and um I think that he's willing to forge his own path now with that said I told him quite pointedly the last time I talked to him that the polls show that he is more popular among right-leaning Independents and he is among Democrats now his poll numbers in the Democratic

[42:28] primary so far are strong 19 and 21 against an incumbent president that's those are strong numbers right there strong enough for them not to want to have a primary yeah strong enough for them to not want to have a primary or debates [Music] um but he's adamant that he will not run as an independent he just simply won't do it so I think that that your scenario is

[42:58] probably correct I think that he intends to get his ideas out there to get his policy proposals out there and in the end he'll likely endorse Joe Biden now one of the things that the people around him are hopeful of is a repeat of the 1968 election where um Eugene McCarthy who was a senator from uh from the Democratic party's left

[43:30] wing ran against Lyndon Johnson in the New Hampshire primary and McCarthy got something like 32 percent this was so shocking to Johnson an incumbent president that he immediately took himself out of the race Now Bob's polling numbers are strongest in New Hampshire Massachusetts Connecticut Rhode Island and California and I think the people around him are hopeful that if he can put up serious

[44:02] numbers in those five states that it's possible that he could push Joe Biden out of the race I think that's what they're hoping for well let's see let's another thing about the CIA that he he raised up which I found interesting and because you were part of the CIA for so long he put it out there with no uncertain terms that now um you know you know you and I have talked to you know that I had volunteered for the RFK Memorial back in the past and I'd known members of the Kennedy family one of my good friends

[44:32] worked for Ted Kennedy and Ted Kennedy was very adamant that they not talk about the assassination with his family I mean the the family publicly not talk about it about some of the theories around who really assassinated JFK and Oliver Stone has done some incredible introspective documentaries on it a recent one he just did but what was startling was RFK uh tweeted out that the CIA was resp that basically responsible partly responsible if not all responsible for the assassination of

[45:04] JFK and his father involved with that and I think um what really startled me was that the mainstream media just went silent there was nothing about it you only saw it on what you consider independent or republican leaning so what are your thoughts on that and what he said is particularly with your experience in the CIA he he believes that and I'll tell you I've come around to believe it as well I think there's enough documentary evidence out there maybe not to prove Beyond A Reasonable Doubt a court of law but the

[45:36] preponderance of the evidence is such that I think he's probably right he told me a story once that was just chilling to me it's it's stuck in my mind since he since he said it he said that on on November 22nd 1963 his mom picked him up early from school right picked him up at I think he said it was two o'clock um his uncle had just been assassinated an hour earlier and when they got home he he lived in a very well-known house

[46:08] called Hickory Hill in McLean Virginia yes less than a half a mile from the cia's headquarters uh when he got home he got out of the car and his father was standing in the driveway talking to John McCone who was the director of the CIA director of Central Intelligence at the time now McCone uh was a very very close friend of the Kennedy family um just after John Kennedy named John McCone as the Director of CIA mccone's wife developed cancer and she died very

[46:38] quickly and he was so distraught that the Kennedys were afraid he was going to harm himself and so he had dinner with the Kennedys every single night he would leave the CIA he would go to Hickory Hill he'd swim in the pool and then they would all have dinner together so Bob said that when he got out of the car and he was 9 or 10 years old at the time he he walked past his father who was deep in conversation with Macon and he

[47:08] overheard his father say tell me your people didn't do this and Macon responded I don't know who did it he didn't say of course my people didn't do it right he genuinely didn't know if the CIA did it and I think Oliver Stone's um uh conclusions are correct although Oliver and I have gone back and forth over this a couple of times in not very nice language uh but I I

[47:39] think I think that it was elements of the CIA that did it I I would guarantee to you that this was not a policy where John McCone who's the best friend of Robert Kennedy said we need to kill the president or even James Angleton you know we need to kill the president I I don't believe that ever happened but I believe that there were elements of the CIA known as Rogue officers who later went on to even greater infamy who were

[48:10] probably involved and I think that a lot of it came from the residual effects of the uh Bay of Pigs invasion and the fact that John Kennedy had spoken about breaking up the CIA right abolishing it so and that leads me to to this question and then I wanted to because we are live we have other people we have the audience is able to ask some questions so oh great before we do um I I that leads me to um another question about because you

[48:42] were employed by them do you think the CIA and FBI should be abolished yes reform that's an easy one yes yes they are rogue organizations they are law breaking organizations they are unable to exist as as lawful law abiding uh entities uh and and frankly you know there's so much overlap in government Tara that that we don't need a CIA uh you know the the state department has the Bureau of intelligence and research which does analysis uh the Pentagon has

[49:15] defense Human Services that does human Source collection uh NSA and a half a dozen other DOD organizations do electronic intelligence we don't need uh we don't need the CIA for uh Fritz Department of um I'm sorry it's directorate of Science and Technology all of that is done elsewhere uh we just don't need it and besides since since 9 11 the CIA has become well let me let me back up and reword

[49:47] that before 9 11 the cia's job was very very easy it was very specific it was to recruit spies to steal secrets and then to analyze those secrets and to provide the analysis to the policy makers so that they could make the best informed policy possible they went rogue and had to be reined in in 1975 with the church and Pike committees on Capitol Hill they were good for a while they went rogue again you know with Iran Contra but after 9 11 it became a paramilitary organization so the analysis is

[50:18] secondary maybe even tertiary now they're more concerned about you know sending assassination squads around the world to kill perceived enemies uh carrying out uh International kidnappings and rendering people to in many cases third countries to be tortured uh they set up an archipelago of secret prisons they founded a torture program that we just sort of have to take their word for it is is over now uh so no I I don't think the CIA should

[50:48] even exist the FBI I've come to the same conclusion that the FBI will entrap Americans for political reasons uh this is how they get promoted think of it this way and not just the FBI but Federal prosecutors as well none of them get promoted by not arresting you right none of them get promoted by not Prosecuting you right so if an FBI agent says oh um I need to go to court and get a warrant for Tara Reid's Twitter DMS

[51:19] and her emails and then looks at it and say and says oh no no she's okay I'm I'm not gonna I'm not gonna prosecute her what's he gonna say in his promotion panel I looked at Tara Reid but she was innocent so I moved on they're not going to promote him for that they're going to promote him if he says you know I looked at her and there was no smoking gun but there might be something there I think we ought to get her phones and put a surveillance team on her and see who she's talking to oh that's initiative

[51:49] that's how you get promoted but then in the meantime the FBI ends up going after you know like these this group in uh the the African uh whatever yeah yeah the Uhuru group in Florida uh they they end up going after idiots who are easily entrapped and tricked into into pulling off phony uh uh terrorist attacks like we saw in Seattle and in Portland and in Cleveland and elsewhere where it was the

[52:20] FBI that provided the explosives the FBI that provided the detonators and made up the operation and then grabbed everybody involved when there really was no terrorist attack being planned in the first place it was the FBI's idea so yeah neither one of them has any any room in a civilized society you're right I mean and it goes to the military industrial complex as well I mean defense contractors and and the like it's it's like um if there's an incentive for death and War and

[52:50] destruction and that's what you're gonna get um particularly when money's involved um so Reef I wanted to bring you in to see if there's any questions for for John yeah I have I have one um two actually um you were John at a event not too long ago uh in front of the doj um talking about Assange and I think it was the anniversary of his arrest if I'm not mistaken yes right Misty Winston put that on and you were the savior of the

[53:22] day you had an interesting experience that day if you could speak to uh your experiences uh that would be nice that was the strangest not just the strangest day that was like the strangest event I've ever participated in you know I I never say no to an Assange event and what I usually do they're usually held right outside the justice department and I finished my radio show at two o'clock and then I just walked over to doj and and speak my piece and it's usually the

[53:53] same 75 or 100 people who show up so I press the Flesh and say hi to everybody and you know slap people on the back and give hugs and whatever and I gave my five minute speech and uh Jerry Condon spoke after I did uh Jerry Condon from Veterans for peace and uh I was sort of off to the side talking to Joe Lauria from Consortium news and uh

[54:23] while I'm talking Joe says oh here we go a streaker and I turn and look and this this young guy looked to be in his mid-20s or so he's standing in front of the podium where Jerry Condon is speaking and he strips completely naked and he does it quickly right he's and he's so nervous he's shaking like visibly shaking to the point where he had trouble getting his pants off because he was so nervous and I thought ah yeah yeah you know it's

[54:54] always something but then he reaches down his jeans are at his feet he reaches down and pulls a bottle of Sterno out of his out of his jeans pocket and he douses himself in Sterno and then douses his clothes drops the bottle reaches back into the pocket and pulls out a lighter and so he's nervously trying to light the lighter to set himself on fire and

[55:25] in the meantime Joe Lauria is live streaming this for Consortium news and Ford Fisher is live streaming it as well on Twitter so I shout don't do it buddy don't do it buddy and but he's shaking so much he can't get the lighter lid skip Calton house who's an attorney a Julian supporter who's always at these events skip ran up to him first and slapped the lighter out of his hand and the guy reaches over to get the

[55:57] lighter and I run and I shove him as hard as I could and I pushed him I pushed him a good eight or ten feet so that he was not close enough to the lighter to pick it up and then I kicked the lighter and it went behind Jerry Condon the guy couldn't have gotten the lighter by then and I shouted at the guy I don't even know why I said this I don't want to swear if I'm not allowed to swear but you can swear it's fine I said you [ __ ] idiot if you set

[56:30] yourself on fire we'll never get a permit to demonstrate here again I don't know why I said that I mean the guy was clearly mentally ill but anyway he had a brand new tattoo all the way across his stomach that was very like red and irritated and inflamed like he had just gone it that day or the day before and it said hashtag free Assange all it took up it went all the way across his torso

[57:01] finally after I shoved him and I shoved him hard enough that he fell down onto the ground um a cop ran over and got him and cuffed him put his pants back on him and then sat him down on the curb uh there was a there was an attorney in the audience who ran up and said I'm an attorney I'll represent him for the purpose of this arrest and she told me later that the cop um took him to a hospital he didn't take him to the police station no charge was

[57:32] ever filed they took him for a mental health evaluation which much to my surprise was really the appropriate thing to do but I will say it was skip Calton house who was the the hero that day Skip is the one that got to him first and and batted the uh the lighter out of his hand yeah that you well you you were considered a hero as well for what you did so thank you for that saved a lot of uh you know that saved that person's life that was that was good um second second audience member question

[58:04] yeah let me scroll back up to it it's about um hold on two seconds you've got time I know right um it was about the I have a ton of chat to like scroll through so I had to find it um it was right at the beginning and I wanted to get to it okay take your time while you're looking I'm gonna do a Shameless plug okay for my sub step

[58:35] okay John kiriaku.substack.com thank you very much so yeah so towards the end but now we have it in the middle and we have it so people in the description go ahead what does John think of the new world press Freedom index for 2023 if you're aware that's a good that's a good question um you know the U.S has dropped precipitously in the world press Freedom index I think this year we're like 43rd

[59:06] or 46th or something like we're behind you know like Bosnia Herzegovina and behind uh Costa Rica you were supposed to be number one right we pride ourselves we brag to the rest of the world what what lovers of freedom and transparency that we are and that's just nonsense that's nonsense and listen I don't care how free you want people to think your press

[59:37] is if you're working to keep somebody like Julian Assange in prison or the in the equivalent of prison in the equivalent of solitary confinement for the last what 11 years you don't have a free press you don't and my guess is because the un's on to us on this issue it's only going to get worse every year it'll just keep getting worse yeah yep you're absolutely right and you know

[1:00:08] I wanted to um because we have a few minutes left I wanted you to take this time to you can plug your sub stack again but also talk about your work with um with uh Sputnik and how that came about and any parting thoughts you wanted to to say to the audience just as we're we're in a time of you know and Twitter just got a new CEO who happens to be the chair of the world economic Forum as well as she was an employee until today of NBC so maybe give us some parting thoughts

[1:00:38] on that and and then also where people can follow your work and and how you kind of came across doing your radio show with Sputnik and whatnot oh thank you in 2000 or in very early 2017 I got a call from Sputnik um offering me a radio show and I turned it down I said thanks I just don't think I can work for the Russians but thanks anyway thanks for thinking of me I didn't have much of a job I was a visiting fellow at at a think tank here

[1:01:09] in Washington but I had to I had to raise my own salary so I was only making minimum wage so about six months later but it came back and they offered me a show again and I said well I don't know I said if I do a show I would want the freedom to talk about anything I wanted and to criticize anybody I wanted including Vladimir Putin and the Washington bureau chief said done

[1:01:39] I said really are you willing to put that in writing put it in the contract he said done so they did they put it in the contract and I I took the job and I've been doing a show there ever since August of 2017. now I will say that they have been true to their word um if we're going to be if we're going to be peace Knicks if we're going to be lovers of of peace then we've got to be lovers of peace and

[1:02:10] so on the day that Russian troops crossed uh the border into Ukraine I said at the start of my show I unreservedly condemn the Russian invasion of Ukraine and I urge that Russian troops withdraw immediately now I understand why the Russians did it I understand the the recent history of Ukraine going back to 2014 ish I understand U.S intervention and interference in Ukraine but

[1:02:40] you know war is wrong and I criticized the US for its Myriad Wars so I feel compelled to criticize Russia for its Wars too and you know what nobody has ever asked me to say something or to not say something at Sputnik and not only has that not held me back but I regularly routinely appear on RT Russia Today uh in in interviews uh and it's

[1:03:11] there's been zero been very very generous with me um I also write for Consortium news I have for years since 2015. um I write for covert Action magazine and also the sheer post uh the Bob shears outlet from the University of Southern California I'm an Adjunct professor at the University of Salamanca Spain oh fabulous yeah which has been a lot of fun and um and I'm I'm I'm hoping to start a

[1:03:43] podcast in the next two weeks okay yep that that I'm going to pair with my um with my sub stack uh my sub Stacks called loud and clear with John kiriaku and the podcast is going to be loud and clear so yeah may ask what are you are you just going to use do what I'm doing which is to kind of broadcast on different platforms are going to be independent or do you have someone no we're gonna We intend to put it everywhere I have a sound engineer and a producer who understand these things

[1:04:14] because they're both younger than I am um and so uh they told me just the other day when we were trying to set up the equipment that um that it'll be on like 11 or 12 platforms and we'll just fabulous yeah all right when is your Premiere and how can people find you to to watch it um we're hoping the premiere is going to be in the next two weeks okay and the probably the easiest place to find it at the very beginning is going to be on

[1:04:44] YouTube but it'll be called loud and clear with John kiriaku warning on YouTube I get taken down and demonetized regularly for saying the word Vladimir Putin or Russia I've heard that so um for abolishing the CIA all of those phrases and words get you taken down apparently RFK too that's what happened to Kim Kim's Kim's uh YouTube was struck um recently I gave an interview to a guy in Tampa not too long ago and it was de-platform for the same reason yeah so

[1:05:16] I don't you know but rumble's good um Twitter for now who knows what speaking of it leads me to one last question before we wrap what does John think of Elon choosing Linda uh yakarino to replace him as Twitter CEO uh yeah wef chair um yeah I don't think much uh I did a paper a couple of years ago for code pink about the wef and Bilderberg and a couple of these other these other meetings of the swells where

[1:05:49] the rich and the famous uh meet to think the big thoughts and uh impose their will on the rest of us right it's not as uh is it's not as otherworldly conspiratorial as you might think but it's still dangerous and you know to take the the head of the world economic forum and and a woman who was quite literally able to financially save uh uh NBC by monetizing it Beyond its wildest dreams I think sends really the

[1:06:22] wrong message especially after Elon said just a few months ago that the reason he bought Twitter was to save it as a Bastion for free speech well if you're gonna put a corporate swell in in charge of your Bastion for free speech I can't imagine that it's going to remain that Bastion for much longer so I'm worried about it yeah I think many of us are I think many of us are it'll be a wait and see game but um I see some democrat operatives cheering it on and that's it yeah huge

[1:06:55] red flag I mean yes yeah so and I mean you know what though we'll we'll get another platform if he blows it and Twitter becomes a wasteland of of you know basically a state department messaging service you know we'll go somewhere else yes so that's it we'll go somewhere else precisely um well thank you so much for your time I know you have a busy schedule and I just appreciated this conversation I learned so much from you and thank you every time I listen to you so thanks so

[1:07:25] much it was a pleasure and thanks for those great questions soon and come back anytime we'd love to have you all right thank you I look forward to it so uh thank you to everyone who was listening and who posed some questions um we'll be back next time until then take care thank you

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