Title: John Kiriakou on the CIA Ukraine Whistleblower
Show: David Gornoski (A Neighbors Choice)
Date: 2019-10-15
URL: https://aneighborschoice.com/
Duration: 41:00

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[01:03] dot com. From the heart of Orlando, Florida, you are listening to the most electrifying show in

[01:36] media on Neighbor's Choice. I'm your host, your neighbor, David Jornowski. So glad to be with you once again in our neighborhood here in central Florida, and we're coming to you on 93.1 FM, 94.1 FM, and 5.40 AM across Florida. You can get us many different stations there, or you can also join us online. We have a Facebook live stream where our video stream is. You can go to our YouTube channel and watch us there. But we are here live

[02:11] tonight, and we're tackling the problems that have plagued our society, and that problem is politics, politics, and using coercion as the way that we deal with our neighbors. That's the big problem at the heart of our worship of government power. And joining us tonight to talk about the latest scandal that has been plaguing the political scene for some time is this Ukraine whistleblower story. We have John Kiriakou

[02:42] with us. How you doing, John? Hey, doing well. Thanks. Thanks for having me. Great to hear from you, and you know, I always enjoy listening to the different things that you share. Of course, you're a CIA whistleblower yourself. You were the one in December of 2007 that was the first U.S. government official to confirm that waterboarding was used to interrogate al-Qaeda prisoners, right? Yes. Yeah, correct. I was. It's funny. It was 12 years ago now, and after 12

[03:14] years, we're finally starting to talk on a national level, a national basis about what exactly a whistleblower is. Yeah, and that's the big thing right now. Everybody in the media is talking about the sacredness of whistleblowers because of this new Ukraine whistleblower. What do you make of this? I mean, you're someone, you spent federal prison time for your work. Yes, I did, and a lot of whistleblowers do. You know, there's actually a legal definition of whistleblowing, and this is in the national whistleblower Protection Act that Congress passed into law. It's bringing to light any evidence

[03:50] of waste, fraud, abuse, illegality, or threats to the public health or public safety. A lot of times whistleblowers will bring to light evidence like this, but they have to go outside of their normal channels to do it, and as a result, you anger the big, muckety mucks, and sometimes that ends up with criminal charges. Well, that's what I've, that's what's interesting is that, you know, this person that is in this Ukraine phone call, he's a CIA officer, but the media loves everything about what he's saying, and I've

[04:24] always thought that the media typically hates people who are whistleblowers or connected to whistleblowers like Assange. It tells you, first of all, that's a very important point you just made, like Assange. We can talk about that at length if you'd like, but it really goes to show you how politicized and how divided we are in the country where people, especially on the left, and I have a lot, a lot of friends on the left, they will jump right into bed with the CIA just because this so-called whistleblower appears

[04:57] to be anti-Trump. They don't really care what the message is, so long as it's an anti-Trump message, and like I say, they're willing to jump in bed with the CIA to do it. And that's what's so strange here is that I see it's like the two parties have united here that this is the real deal, and usually whenever you have a whistleblower show up, the two parties unite and hating that whistleblower, but here, they're united and saying, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is a very, very serious matter that this

[05:30] person is raising. So what's your overall take of what's happening here? Well, I think we've got a situation where this is not a whistleblower. I happened to be on Fox News last week. I was on the Tucker Carlson show, and I said that in my opinion, and I'll explain why, this is not a whistleblower, he's an anonymous source for the Democratic staff and the House Intelligence Committee. I don't think he's a whistleblower for a very simple reason. Number one, there's a way that you blow the whistle

[06:00] on waste, fraud, abuse, and illegality. You can go through your chain of command, or you can go to the media. And this whistleblower, apparently at least in the beginning, went through his chain of command. Now there are reports that he actually went around his chain in the very beginning and went directly to Adam Schiff on the Oversight Committee, but he ended up taking his information to his superior. The superior then went to the Inspector General. A-OK so far, that's exactly what you're supposed to do. And then the Inspector General, though, rather than going to the

[06:34] Oversight Committee, went to the CIA's General Counsel, the lawyers, and then the lawyers went to the CIA leadership. They came up with something in writing, and then they went to the Director of National Intelligence Inspector General, who then instead of going to the Oversight Committee went to the Justice Department, and the Justice Department deemed it to be not credible, and they killed it. Well then Schiff got word that this whistleblower, quote-unquote whistleblower, had this information, and

[07:05] Schiff went public. So I looked at the complaint that came out of the CIA, and I can tell you that I just don't believe that it came from a whistleblower, because when you're an analyst, like this person apparently is, I was an analyst at the CIA for the first eight years of my career, they send you to their training facility called the Farm, and they beat into you over the course of six months the CIA's writing style, so that when you write for the President's Daily Brief, for the President, the Vice President, the Secretary of State and Defense, the National

[07:36] Security Advisor, no matter who writes it, it looks exactly the same, because everybody's writing in the same CIA writing style. But this whistleblower complaint is not in that CIA writing style. This is in a legal writing style, and that tells me that the complaint was not made by a whistleblower, it was made by the lawyers at the CIA, and I think this is a way for the CIA to attack the President. I don't think it came from a whistleblower. Now, how much lawful oversight does Trump have

[08:09] over this if his own agency is just starting an attempt to depose him? Did he appoint Gina? I mean, I can't listen to you. He did, and you know, that's the mystery here, because we haven't heard a single word from Gina Haspel. Gina Haspel was indeed appointed by the President. Gina Haspel was very popular, not just with Mike Pompeo, who was her predecessor, but with John Brennan, who was Pompeo's predecessor. What's her

[08:40] role in all this? What did she know, and when did she know it? That's what I'd like to know. Yeah, it's really strange how... Do you have any idea as to why the so many Republicans and Democrats both unite around a sacred aura around this? Is it because the CIA is attached, and they just want to let them know that that's what it's about? I do, I think so. Chuck Schumer said when Donald Trump was first inaugurated that the CIA has nine ways

[09:10] from Sunday to wreck your career, and I think that might be what we're seeing right now. Wow. So do you think that the fix is in here? I mean, I mean, do you think the case is falling apart, and it's not gonna... I mean, they don't really have much of a case it sounds like. Yeah, I don't think they have much of a case. I think, frankly, that the CIA underestimated the public backlash, but one of the things that the CIA didn't calculate is something that I've been repeating like a mantra. And listen, over the last, what, 15 years

[09:44] plus, the CIA told us that there was no torture program. That was a lie. They told us that there was no rendition program where we were kidnapping people and sending them to other countries to be tortured. That was a lie. They told There was no system of secret prisons around the world where we were holding people in Communicado. That was a lie. They told us that they had not broken into the Senate Intelligence Committee's computer system. That was a lie. And now they're telling us that there's this conspiracy between the President and the

[10:17] President of Ukraine, and they want us to just take their word for it, but when everything else that they've told us is a lie, why in the world would we listen to this? So, but again, there's only like a handful of people in the House and then maybe, I don't know, one or two in the Senate that even dare challenge, it seems like, the zeal and importance. So it's really bizarro land. It's just really... It's bizarro land. Oh my gosh. I've said the same thing in writing, in some of my columns.

[10:47] This is bizarro land where everything is the reverse of what it should be. Everything is upside down. You can count the members of Congress who are willing to stand up to the CIA on one hand, and that's a very sad state. And it's terrifying because, you know, if you can't have any accountability in your government, then what kind of democracy or republic do we have left? What kind of constitution do we have left? Indeed. You know, we like to profess that we're a nation of laws, a nation that has a living

[11:20] and breathing and growing constitution. And then, you know, when the constitution's not convenient for us, we just ignore it. Wow. Let's continue with John Kiriakou, a true whistleblower, someone who put real skin in the game in the face of awful, awful pressure to reject what his real calling is, which is to defend the constitution and to defend the republic. To continue on A Neighbor's Choice, I'm David Gornoski, more about the Ukraine Whistleblower

[11:54] up next. A Neighbor's Choice radio is live. I'm your host, David Gornoski, and we are with John Kiriakou, a true whistleblower, someone who put real skin in the game in terms of hard time for doing what was right, which

[12:29] was to let the public know that their own government was doing illegal, medieval torturing of people, sometimes even the wrong people that weren't even the right suspects for terror. And he suffered a lot for it. And he's still fighting, and he's on, see him on Tucker Carlson all the time, and so glad that he joins us as well. So John, I wanted to just kind of summarize here. I also noticed the president retweeted a quote of you on Tucker Carlson's show,

[13:03] so look at that, huh? How do you like that? I tell you, I went on the show and I went home and I put a ballgame on, and then my phone just blew up. Well I hope he can give attention to your need to get a full pardon, too, because you deserve it, you know, I don't understand. It seems like all the bad guys always get book deals and lucrative pensions and all the good guys get prison and persecution, doesn't it? I was just complaining about the same thing the other day.

[13:36] It was funny. I worked for some kind of famous or infamous people at the CIA, the likes of John Brennan and George Tenen and Jose Rodriguez, and they all went on to seven-figure book deals. I went to prison and they were making millions and millions explaining why they broke the law and showing no remorse for doing it. And the thing that really bothers me is that it's obvious that Hollywood and the music industry and sports and most of the media are on the side of being pro John

[14:10] Brennan and all these people, and yet this leftist media pretends to be so social justice-minded. If you say someone's pronoun wrong, you've hurt them violently, but yet they're in favor of people who torture people and bomb people and kill people, and it's like how can you even begin to have those two opinions at the same time? It's so ridiculous to me. Yeah, they're mutually incompatible. Look at MSNBC. I was complaining to Tucker after we went off the air the other day.

[14:40] We were talking about support from the major networks and I said, you know, it took my attorneys a full year to get CNN to stop calling me CIA leaker John Kiriakou and to start calling me CIA whistleblower John Kiriakou. Fox News called me a whistleblower from the very beginning. MSNBC still refuses to call me a whistleblower. They still call me a leaker. In fact, I went on the Ari Melbers show a couple of weeks ago and not only did

[15:12] he introduce me as a leaker, but he introduced me as a convicted felon. And I said, okay, if you're going to play games like that, I'm walking. And I took my microphone off. We were taping it in advance. And he said, no, no, no, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. What do you object to? I said, are you kidding me? You brought me on here with Daniel Ellsberg of all people, the godfather of all whistleblowers, to talk about whistleblowing. And then you introduced me as a leaker and convicted felon.

[15:42] That's called Fifth Avenue. I mean, that's Madison Avenue advertising techniques. This is like psychological conditioning of the public. It is. Rachel Maddow, who I boycott, she refers to me. And every time she mentions my name, she says, John Kiriakou, who styles himself a whistleblower. What does it take to get these people? I think they care about something.

[16:13] But it's like, do we need to find out whether some of the thousands of people are being bombed by our drones and stuff over there? Some of them are trans, or maybe some of them are LGBTQT. Is that the only way they'll care? I don't understand this. It's just like it is so insane to me. How can you care more about pronouns than flesh and blood? I agree completely. They should be talking, for example, about Syria.

[16:44] The president is taking it on the chin right now because of this pullout from Syria. But the truth of the matter is, our presence in Syria is illegal in the first place. There are only three ways that you can send troops to another country legally. One is at the invitation of the host government. One is with the approval of the United Nations Security Council. And the third is, if that country has attacked us, and Syria doesn't meet any of those three criteria,

[17:14] but we have troops there. Well, the president wants to pull them out. And MSNBC and CNN are going crazy. During the break, the news break at the top of the hour, your newsreader said that Senator Rubio, for example, says this is going to weaken Israel. Well, you know what? Israel can take care of itself. It's not up to us to take care of Israel. And the Israelis are doing quite fine the way things are. They don't need 1,500 American Marines there to protect Israel. And we can talk about ISIS until we're blue in the face.

[17:47] But that's a whole different issue. Well, that's the thing that they made it out. And again, even like the daytime program, like the View, they've got their knives out like war mongers now. And I'm thinking, wait a second. You guys used to be in solidarity with Cindy Sheehan during the Iraq War. But now, you're mad that a guy may move 50 soldiers or so to another part of the country they're not even supposed to be in. And now it's the Kurds, the Kurds. And I think, I mean, are they getting talking points from a government agency?

[18:18] I don't understand this. I mean, at what point do common sense intelligent people say, wait a second, is this the same pattern? I mean, do they all just say the same? They all call you a leaker and a felon on cue. And then this other group, Think Media, comes and says, oh, Kurds, Kurds, Kurds, Kurds. It's almost like, I don't know, they're either the most lemming type people in the history of mankind or someone's getting memos from somebody. I don't understand it. From somebody, but look at it this way, too.

[18:49] Who is the talking head on these issues for MSNBC? It's John Brennan, the former director of the CIA and one of the president's biggest enemies. Who's the talking head on this issue for CNN? It's James Clapper, the former director of National Intelligence, and Philip Mudd, the former deputy director of the CIA's Counterterrorism Center. So all of these agency people, and NSA people, and FBI people, they all end up on CNN and MSNBC just spewing their talking points. And again, I said in the beginning of our conversation

[19:22] that we're so polarized now in the country that a lot of these criticisms are criticisms just for the sake of criticism. They're not even policy related. Right. Yeah, it's become so obsessed with our rivals that we've lost all moral reality, you know? We really have. I mean, I could come. Do you remember the good old days when there was what was called a bipartisan foreign policy where criticism of the president, they said ended at the shores? Yeah. You don't like that anymore. I mean, I agree. I mean, like Nancy Pelosi and Donald Trump

[19:53] are closer politically than I am to either. You know, I'm in a different kind of philosophy, but I don't... I like you. I don't see that I don't see the need to lie and be so I mean but again I guess they're just in a fight for their life they love power so much they'll do anything including destroy everybody to maintain their little myth and that's what you're breaking apart so thank you for what you're doing you know where can people get involved with you know following your story I know you're around different places but you've got your website I speak a lot I've got

[20:25] a website John Kiriakou.com John K-I-R-I-A-K-O-U.com I'm on Facebook and Twitter and I get speeches all over the place. And finally what would you say to a lot of people you know we've got a lot of listeners and radio land and online you know so we've got the younger people in one segment and then we have a more of a you know the Rush Limbaugh type listener who are on the radio side of things what would you say to these people who they're hearing this deep stay always seems to always have a trick up their sleeves do

[20:58] you see hope here I mean what's your real statement for these people who are just I do see hope for two reasons number one because young people are always going to want to go to the CIA they're always going to want an exciting international career at the CIA they can do that and they can change the organization from the inside and and number two is you know one of these days this tends to be very cyclical we're going to get real congressional oversight again and so you know eventually things are going to

[21:31] change they're going to have to change the pendulum is going to swing back in the other direction you know we had it one way with the church committee and the pike committee in the mid-1970s then after 9-11 it swung so far to the other side that it just seems like everybody's gone crazy but we'll get there again that's I let's hope so and let's hope that you in history books you know this is a crazy time because it seems like the winners always write history right but now that the media is so disrupted it's hard to know who's going to have the final say in history books because there's a

[22:03] billion different history book writers right now you know I mean it used to be like three absolutely right so it's it's just strange because you know you go to your I'm sure your wicca Lee I mean your Wikipedia page is a John Brennan approved right they may well you know I think that you say that I just posted something on Facebook this morning it was a Reuters article saying that there are hundreds of Wikipedia edits that were made from CIA computers inside Langley at CIA headquarters and so yeah the CIA is out there to

[22:36] propagandize the American people and to and to make sure that the approved version of history is the CIA version of his and what's their what's their overarching philosophy at the top that they that is their version of history is it neoconservatism is it is it socialism what do they want it is you know to me neoconservatism and neoliberalism are essentially the same thing because they're they're foreign policy focused and they are like like Hillary Clinton to me is the is the poster child of neoliberalism she never saw a war that she didn't want to jump into with both feet look at

[23:08] the disaster in Libya for example that's all her but it's both parties the the republicans the neoconservatives got us into Iraq and we haven't been able to get out and so yeah to me it's both neoliberalism and neoconservatism that's what really that's the the ideology that thrives at CIA headquarters well I mean I mean there was a story recently about a Twitter executive for the Middle East is a British army Cyop soldiers so I mean it's like I off soldier exactly got a wonder how much of that is actually going on of these different big sites you know trying to gas

[23:40] like people's sense of reality terrible well thank you illegal yeah thank you for what you're doing it's so important that you become a fixture for the average American to know what a true defender of freedom in a lover of security looks like okay thank you so much I appreciate that well thanks again John and we'll continue on a neighbor's choice I'm David Gronoski more is coming up next hold on welcome back to a neighbor's choice radio

[24:40] We are live and we just heard from John Kiriakou, someone who was the head of the CIA division in Pakistan, someone who became a whistleblower exposing John Brennan and many of the other people's illegal torture programming program that was going on and torturing people with medieval techniques, even people who weren't even the right people they were supposed to torture. So in terms of the suspects, they got different names wrong and stuff. He came on in the last segments and, you know, so right now he was pointing out how the media,

[25:18] you know, supposed to be the free press, the free press media, all curiously, you know, most of them call him a leaker and a felon rather than calling him a whistleblower. But then this Ukraine CIA guy who's trying to get Trump an anonymous complaint, they on cue as soon as his story pops up. He's a whistleblower, he's sacred, he's protected, it's real, it's the end of the world. At what point are we going to say this is truly a creepy, you know, failure of a media?

[25:54] You know, because if we cannot, you know, at what point do we have to say this is proff to? You know, this is state-submitted media, perpetual state-submitted media. These are media group-think talking points that use psychologically conditioning words like, oh, John Kiriakou, because he exposes John Brennan and these bad guys that are doing torture, he is a leaker, he's a convicted felon.

[26:25] But this anonymous gossip guy that they're saying is the end of Trump's presidency because he allegedly hesitated to give them javelin missiles for a second. That guy is automatically rolled out by your group-think hive mind media as whistleblower, whistleblower, whistleblower, whistleblower. And so as we speak, the democratic debate is going on and they're using all kinds of

[26:55] conditioning language there. For example, you know, they're saying it's reproductive health instead of abortion, right? See how they flip the words there? So John Kiriakou, someone who spends a immense amount of suffering in prison to try to help people understand what's going on with the torture program that he was, you know, that was going on under his time in office. You know, he's considered a monster. But and the same here goes here.

[27:28] According to the Democrat debate going on right now is reproductive health. They use euphemisms to condition your mind, to numb yourself out from your God-given conscience. This is mental pollution that we're dealing with. This is high-grade marketing persuasion techniques that they're using to box and beat and beat down people's conscience until it's completely numb.

[28:08] And that's a terrible thing to to think about because you got millions and millions and millions of our vote of our of our neighbors who buy for it, who buy into it. They're the kind of people that, you know, they buy any advertising gimmick they see in the store and they buy it because they get conditioned by the psychological persuasion techniques that are being used on the packaging and the and the store positioning and the and the music and the colors and all that. But the problem is when those are used to sell people on bigger and bigger government

[28:42] and empire and wars and debt, that's a deadly situation you have. Because if someone's using psychological persuasion techniques to condition you to buy an extra candy bar you don't need at the checkout line, the only thing that it costs you was those extra calories, some rotten teeth, and maybe, you know, a little bit bigger waistline the next morning. But if they're using psychological advertising techniques in the service of wars that

[29:16] are built on lies for special interests that make tons and tons of money using government. And if they're using those techniques in the service of taxpayer funded abortions even past the time of delivery, then human life is at stake. Human civilization is at stake. Your children and their children, their lives are at stake.

[29:51] We take for granted the freedom that we have in this country sometime. And we've lost a lot of it, but we still have a lot of it still here. and we get apathetic it's too confusing politics is too negative people say I don't want to watch it and I understand that and that's good and I counsel people to say if it's making you feel negative don't you know stay away from it but don't stay away for completely there are positive sources people like John Kiriakou people like the Mises Institute with Jeff Dice for your

[30:24] economic news there's some sober realistic practical truth tellers out there they don't get the shiny lights they don't get the Ted Talk invitations they don't get the you know the special feature on the New York Times they don't get the CBS highlight they don't get the movie and music star lemmings coming out and unison for them you don't get that the real truth tellers they got a fight tooth and nail just to survive but thankfully

[30:54] because of this media revolution that you and I are a part of the truth tellers are able to actually be heard a lot more than they were in the old times because that old saying when history is written by the winners the victors well it was a lot easier for the victors to write the narrative about what happened if they got into a skirmish with their rivals and they beat their rivals right whether it's for political power or war or resources or social power if they beat

[31:25] their rivals but there's only one or two or three or four major media sources in town it's easy for the victor to make sure all those sources write it the way they want it to be written so that they look good and their vanquished foe looks awful but now because of 2,000 years of Christianity and Jesus infecting our storytelling ability with the other side of the story with the victims perspective and now with that influencing us in the West for 2,000

[31:57] something years as well as the the opening up of media technology to the point where everybody has a HD phone they can livestream they can do cellular live streaming they can upload their own video comments they can do their own podcast and they can do their own tweets and all their whatever radio show whatever they want now there's millions and millions and millions and millions of different perspectives and angles now yes many of those perspectives are just kind of parroting group think nonsense that's true but

[32:28] still even with that there's still millions and millions of different perspectives and they take the give you the vantage point of the other side of the story and so the cats out of the bag these these fools that want to manipulate people's opinions for politics and use psychological conditioning techniques that you hear about on Madison Avenue and psychology textbooks people who want to use that in the service of killing people their day is

[33:02] not going to be long because that's that you cannot have long-term success once that people see you for who you are you can hide behind conditioning people to make the true heroes like John Kiriakou look like villains and make the the bad guys look like saints you can do that when you have one or two or five or six you know media approved outlets that everybody reads and watch watches but once you have millions and millions and millions and millions of different angles now enough people can be exposed to the truth and they'll be

[33:36] able to say oh wait a second so abortion isn't reproductive health and John Kiriakou is a whistleblower in this Ukraine character who's mad that Trump waited five seconds to give javelin missiles to Ukraine and wanted to look into the crowd strike server they're mad that that he's not a whistle blower you see once you have the truth the truth will unleash itself against the

[34:07] weak Empire of lies and it won't last long it'll crumble under the weight of its lies once it's exposed to the sunshine of the truth that's what you and I are a part of on a neighbor's choice I'm David Gronovsky we'll be right back you

[34:53] hello this is David Gronovsky you're listening to a neighbor's choice we're live and we're talking about how the media myth making ability of the old mainstream media is falling apart at the seams and with that comes a new opportunity for much danger as well as great opportunity for prosperity and peace as you can see right before you most of the media you hear will tell you that the end of the world has happened because Trump moved 50 soldiers

[35:24] away from the border of Syria and Turkey and you heard Marco Rubio oh this is so terrible these guys are just lemmings for war industrial complex that's what they do it's not a joke it's not it's not hard to predict this is not a theory this is as fact as if the Sun will come out right it's a fact as if you look up and you see the stars you don't have to theorize if I look up may I see stars you know it's not a theory you do and you see it

[35:56] and when you wake up you don't have to theorize will there be a sun out there you go go see and that's as that's as you can take it to the bank that people like Marco Rubio and these little group think muppets they will all tell you they'll use whatever heartstrings narrative they have to tell you to get you to go support them to occupy some other country that's in the special interest communities best interest that's what they like and they know that and they think

[36:29] that the average person will fall for it but you're not falling for it that's why you're listening to programs like this that's why you're reading books that are different from the the old myth-making lying media narrative that's why you're turning off programs like CNN they get worse ratings than you know then they're like a fraction of animal planet I mean come on that's what's happening is there's a sea change taking place and you're a part of it and with that comes a great responsibility not to just form a new faction of you know

[37:04] doing the same thing that the old media did but this time let's tell the truth this time let's be consistent with our principles that we say on this program I believe that you should not use coercion to have your way with your neighbor obviously politicians disagree they use coercion every single step that's what every law they usually create is about co-finding some new reason to coercively subdue and subjugate

[37:36] some group or tax somebody or regulate some this business or stomp on this group or stomp on that group or blame this group or steal money from this group or print money out of thin air for that group it's all about coercion coercion coercion it's the very oxygen of DC is coercion but I believe in a story that's much bigger and much more powerful than that story of coercion I believe in a story that says it is better to desire mercy not sacrifice

[38:13] I believe in a story that changed humanity and is changing humanity as we speak the more it infects our ability to make sense of things and that is the story of the crucified one the crucified one is changing our history as we speak he's changing our ability to use media in a different way and we have a wonderful opportunity to make the world better with this progress that is given to us to move society away from coercion see here's the thing

[38:47] it's not just that coercion is immoral right I can make that argument and I have made that argument many times on this program and other programs like it I make it on my things hidden podcast I make that point in many different ways and I make it on this program you're listening to right now and neighbors choice I can make the moral argument all day about how government laws and taxations and subsidies and bailouts and printing money and wars of aggression and

[39:18] occupation and sanctioning and all the stuff all that muck that's on politics every day how it's all immoral because you don't have the right to initiate violence against your neighbor even when a group of people say you can do it but then it's not just the moral part of it that we have to understand because a lot of people listening will say well that's quaint you have moral principles that doesn't buy it for me I want I just want practical stuff I want

[39:49] to pay my bills I want to have enough money left over to do whatever I want and that's where they go totally wrong first of all moral principles are everything but even if that's It's true that they don't really care about what's right or wrong. They just care about what's good for them, right? They just want their stuff and leave me alone. I don't care. I'll vote for whoever I want. I'll hate whoever I want and who are you to tell me what's true? Tell me what's good or bad. Well, the problem with that stance, that status quo stance that so many people still

[40:22] have is that coercion retards their own well-being. So you see coercion and government control over health care retards our ability to solve non-toxic solutions for many wicked, awful diseases that bother us all. It's the government coercion-protected group think and science that limits our understanding of the natural world to the point that we still have to rely on outdated forms of energy to power our vehicles and homes, boats and cars and even planes.

[40:59] It's government coercion, the initiation of force and regulation and subsidy, the picking winners and losers of knowledge that has retarded our ability to have cheaper homes, to have cheaper food, higher quality food, cleaner air, cheaper, more better-serving education for our children. Freedom and voluntary interaction isn't just the moral choice. It's the only practical choice any thinking person would ever want because it's only

[41:33] when we're free to think and fail and get up and try again that we'll actually figure out what the solutions to our problems are. That's what the fresh breath of freedom is all about. You breathe it in, you live it and with that freedom mindset, you're free from the poverty of fear. You're free from the poverty of coercion. I'm David Gronosky. I'll see you Monday night, Godspeed.
