The debate with the Mossad director
===================================

Asked for an example of the ways in which the Israelis differ operationally from other services, John Kiriakou reached instead for a television studio.

The opponent

The first time he appeared on Piers Morgan's programme, he said, he debated a former director of the Mossad, "and the guy just couldn't stop chuckling all through the ... I mean it was ridiculous."

The exchange

The substance of the disagreement was short. Kiriakou said things like "the Israelis spy on the United States." The rebuttal was "Oh no, no, not since Jonathan Pollard."

His reply was chronological. "Well, Jonathan Pollard was caught in 1985, and you were spying on the United States in 1998, you know, or 2004." The answer he received was "No comment." Kiriakou's reaction, recounting it: "It's like, what? What is that?"

The asymmetry he describes

The exchange leads directly into the rule he says governed his own side. "We would never, we're not permitted to spy on the Israelis. We're not permitted. The potential for blowback is outrageous. Can you imagine if we spied on the Israelis and got caught? Every member of Congress would be demanding the CIA director's head."

Asked whether he genuinely believed the United States does not do it, he answered that it was "verboten when I was there," and distinguished the case from the general practice of allied intelligence. Since 9/11, he said, the Five Eyes partners, the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, do not spy on one another and sit next to each other in each other's headquarters; there are other very close relationships besides. "But the Israelis are special. We do not spy on the Israelis."

See also

See also

- John Kiriakou
- MOSSAD
- Jonathan Pollard
- Five Eyes
