Title: clip (\"Scott Horton x Kiriakou DESTROY Dershowitz on Piers\")
Show: yusefs report
Date: 2025-08-28
URL: https://youtu.be/s5qHlmDHnDE
Duration: 25:00

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[00:01] Do you think Mossad is a force for good or not? >> Well, they serve Israel's interests, which is uh not the same thing as America's interests at all. And on the topic of Iran's nuclear program, for example, they forged what was purported to be an Iranian scientist's so-called smoking laptop back in the W. Bush years, and they pretended that this laptop proved that Iran had a secret nuclear weapons program. And all of it was eventually debunked, but it helped

[00:32] heighten the risk of war between Iran and the United States over this alleged nuclear weapons threat. And as we talked about on the show last week, Pierce, Iran has a latent nuclear capability. They've proven that they've mastered the fuel cycle. But the Ayatollah has said he doesn't want nuclear weapons and America's intelligence agencies and Israel's intelligence agencies have continually reaffirmed that they have not made the decision and changed that decision. Essentially, I think the consensus is among the reasonable

[01:04] experts on this is that if we don't threaten them and especially if we don't attack them, then they're not going to make nukes. If we do attack them, they might. and they're saying essentially if you don't attack us we won't. So it's a standoff and we could leave it at that. I mean they have mastered the fuel cycle literally 20 years ago in 2005 they started spinning these centrifuges and proving that they can enrich uranium 235 and so I'm not saying the Ayatollah is the most responsible player in the world or anything like that but it's clearly

[01:35] heightening tensions against them which increases the threat that they would then make the decision to break out toward a nuclear weapon and then we would have Israel lead the United States into another disastrous war in the Middle East. Alan Dwitz, you're shaking your head there. >> Well, should Israel really trust and depend on the possibility that maybe Iran is not going to develop a nuclear weapon? Just two days ago, Ayatollah Kamani said he was determined to destroy

[02:09] uh Israel. Rafson Johnny, the former liberal head of Iran, said if Iran develops a nuclear bomb and drops it on Tel Aiv, it will kill 3 million Jews. And Israel is a onebomb state. It will end Israel. Israel will then retaliate and drop a bomb on Tehran. It will kill 10 million Muslims. Uh but the trade-off will be worth it because it will be end of the Zionist entity and Islam would still survive. Life is always a question of probabilities and possibilities. And

[02:40] in my new book, The Preventive State, I go through all the options that governments have to try to prevent likely, sometimes even unlikely scenarios and and the CIA uh as well as the Mossad are there to minimize uh the likelihood of devastating experiences. You ask if if a Mossad is good or if it's evil. I actually defended uh two young men who were arrested, Mossad agents in Cyprus back in the 1990s. And

[03:12] I got a letter from the former head of the Mossad, the man who preceded the guest. And here's the way he ended the letter. And this how it tells you everything you need to know. May we all live to see the day when a profession such as mine gives way to more pleasant occupations. Still there is there is still some time and a way to go before this comes about. Look, we know the Mossad is necessary. The question of whether it's good, evil, intermediate, those are matters of

[03:43] degree and opinion. But the idea that Israel uh one of the smallest nations and the most hated nations in the world, one of the most frequently attacked nations, attacked since even before it was established, could do without the Mossad is preposterous. The Mossad saves lives, Israeli lives, American lives, European lives. It prevents terrorism. And like all intelligence agencies, it does things we wish it didn't have to do. As the former head of the Mossad

[04:13] said, we hope for a day when that profession is not necessary, but tragically we're not even close to that. So, two and a half cheers for Mossad. It does a great job. It's more like the CIA than it is like any other intelligence agency. And on balance, it does a great deal of good, not only for Israel, but for the world. >> I mean, Alan, Alan, the Israeli historian. >> Yeah. I mean, like the whole notion that Iran has these nuclear weapons that they're going to threaten the entire

[04:44] world with is absolutely pathetic and laughable. Um whether they have the technology or not, by the way, nuclear technology so old that was so 1930s. I mean, um there's reports now where Russia has similar bombs that could create the same damage and I think Iran has them too without the um using without the radiation and all that crap. So the nuclear weapons thing is just uh um an excuse for the Israelis to conduct a regime change in

[05:15] Iran. Whether they have them or not, you know, it doesn't make a difference. The Israelis have uh nuclear weapons themselves illegally, by the way, stolen. And we can go into details on how it was stolen on a a ship route that was targeted by a unit 8200 MSAD that literally stopped a ship in route to uh sending nuclear bombs to Europe to France actually uh where they eventually stole uh a certain amount of nuclear warheads.

[05:46] So they're a de facto undeclared nuclear state. And so the fact that they have been propagandizing this whole thing that Iran's developing ballistic missiles and they're going to launch them towards America. Well, okay, so does North Korea, so does Pakistan. And they claim that these these are some host some of the most dangerous terrorists in the world. And so far they've for the most part at least been um able

[06:17] to contain themselves from launching a nuclear weapon towards America because they know that will be the end of their their entity as well. So it's a big hoax, right? And you know, Alan Dersitz, who constantly defends the genocide going on in Gaza, he he'll sit there and try to justify that, oh, Mossad is necessary and Mossad are these great players defending Jewish people all over the world. Well, yeah. And they're also blackmailing um all our politicians through a sex

[06:48] rank, you know, that was headed by Epstein. So, there's that, too. Um, also they have been uh involved in a few other things that we're not going to get into uh too much detail about, but just think of major events that have occurred the past 30 years. >> An author and politician Michael Barzoha said of the Mossad, "The dirtiest action should be carried out by the most honest men." Um, you know, does the end justify the means to you? You're a very very highprofile and very highly reputed

[07:19] lawyer. Are you comfortable with the way that the Mossad has conducted itself over the decades from a legal perspective or sometimes is it justified for the Mossad to behave illegally if the ends justify the means? Now, everybody knows how much I enjoy my tea and I'm very happy to say trusted >> the ends are and what the means are. If the Mossad could have prevented the Holocaust, if it could have prevented October 7th, if it could have prevented

[07:51] some of the other devastating events, the killing of so many American Marines in the barracks in Lebanon, then you might say yes, uh the means, even if they sometimes exceeded the limits of acceptable law, would be justified. If not, I mean, your previous guest talked about the Mossad forging a laptop, but then they went in and they discovered that in fact the Iranians, although they had promised and had a fatwa against having developed nuclear weapons, were

[08:23] developing uh nuclear weapons all the time that they promised, they they weren't. So, >> that's not true at all. >> The ends don't generally justify the the the means depending on the means. But when the means are calibrated and when the ends are cataclysmic, uh you sometimes need to take the kind of preventive action that we wish we wouldn't have to take. We don't live in a perfect world. We live in a world that has had holocausts and genocides and all kinds of horrible things to the extent

[08:54] these can be prevented uh by largely legal activities. And remember, the vast majority of what the Mossad does just looks up things. and goes into public and open sources and tries to get the best conceivable intelligence it can. But it also has to engage in terrible actions. Yes, it has to kill people who have killed Israelis in order to send a deterrent message. After the terrible Munich massacres, Golden Mayer said every single person who was involved in killing Israeli athletes will be killed.

[09:26] And the Mossad did it and they made one mistake. They killed one innocent person. That's typical of the way intelligence services operate. Mostly they do preventive action. Mostly they do good and sometimes they overdo it and sometimes they make mistakes. That's why we have the rule of law. >> Okay. John Keryaki, you said this. Um we saw this is the CIA when you were there. We saw what the Israelis were getting away with in these prisons that they had in the West Bank and in Gaza. Nobody raised any objection at all. So, we

[09:57] thought, well, if the Israelis can do it, we can do it. The president said we could, and the justice department said we could, and so we did. You've also separately described Mossad uh saying that it has a negative, disproportionate, and widespread influence on the US national security state. So, you're clearly not a fan of the MOSAD. Why? >> Well, the the job of really any traditional intelligence service is to recruit spies to steal secrets. And that's great because every country's

[10:28] leaders need those secrets in order to form the best possible policy. But when the secrets are being stolen from the US, the major US defense contractors, from Capitol Hill, from the US intelligence uh community, from the State Department, there there's a problem there. I remember when I first joined the CIA and this is going back 35 years. There was a declared Mossad officer in the Israeli embassy and a declared Shinbet officer and the FBI was

[10:58] able to identify 187 additional Israeli intelligence officers at work in the United States clandestinly. I would say why why would they steal secrets when we give them 99% of everything that we already have? But doesn't the United States steal secrets from Israel, too? Of course they do. >> No, actually, no. The the Israelis were off limits to us at the CIA. We were not permitted. >> I don't believe that for I don't believe

[11:28] that. I don't believe that for one second. I have information definitely that the United States has stolen secrets. I know it for a fact and I don't think you can credibly dispute that. Well, you know, Go ahead. Well, Jeff Stein, the great uh Intelligence Beat reporter from Newsweek, uh would report every year on an intelligence report that the FBI would put out about the worst counter intelligence threats in the United States. And it was Russia, China, and

[11:59] Israel. And eventually what happened was it it caused such a scandal after time after time of this coming out that Diane Feinstein ended up changing the rules so that they didn't have to issue the report anymore. So that Jeff Stein wouldn't be able to report on it anymore. But they were uh alleged by the FBI counter intelligence division to be the most damaging spies in America only after our supposed adversaries Russia and China. >> In fact, at the CIA Well, hang on, hang on, hang hang on one

[12:30] second. I want to ask Danny actually because you you ran Mossad, you know, did did Mossad steal secrets from the CIA, for example? As far as it was published, nowadays no. The answer is no. Probably it was the situation until the polar defair. Once the polar affair happened and it became a big crisis that influenced to

[13:03] the worst the situation the relations between Israel and the United States the Mossad stopped working on an American soil. On the contrary, I don't know if you know, but there are very very close and intimate relations between Mossad and CIA and between Shinbet and FBI and we are working together. We are sharing information and as a matter of fact our best ally is

[13:37] the United States and our best ally to the Mossad is the CIA. >> John I want to come to you about something that you stated which is that you believe that Jeffrey Epstein was a Mossad agent. >> I believe that he was an Israeli access agent. You know if if a foreign intelligence agency wants information from very highly placed from very important sources. They they're not going to be able to recruit those sources directly. So, you recruit somebody who has access to those

[14:07] sources. And I think that that's most likely uh what Jeffrey Epstein was. >> You knew Jeffrey Epstein. >> Yeah. By the way, you know, when they talk about how MSAD wasn't this uh the greatest ally the CIA has and stuff, several CIA agents have come out and said, you know, the the horrible experience they've had dealing with them. Uh, one CIA agent in particular was talking about how they used to um, you know, try and recruit agents that worked in the CIA, right? Uh, that look

[14:39] Jewish. They would go up and try and recruit them so they could spy on uh, the CIA and they would they would come and give a lot of the officials gifts and stuff like that. They would all the time be wiretapped and and u there'll be a wire in there listening devices and they plant that everywhere they can get into. So it's like a they do have that relationship but they're constantly the CIA and the FBI are constantly being sabotaged by these same individuals. And we're going to get into

[15:09] how Epstein was a tool to also blackmail uh high-ranking politicians, executives, you name it, right into doing into making sure that whoever's in office continues to maintain the the pro-Israeli policies that have been going on for such a long time. >> I was in Israel writing a book and one day Jeffrey Epstein called me. I was his lawyer and he said, "I've never been to Israel. Uh, I'd like to come there and

[15:40] meet some people. Can you get a lunch together for me with six of Israel's smartest people?" And so I arranged a lunch in the Tel Aiv Hotel at which the president of the Supreme Court, the dean of this, the dean of that. He didn't know any Israelis. He absolutely didn't know anybody. I took him on a trip to the shook. We bought a couple of surveyors. He got on the plane that night. >> He got he knew I had Barack afterward as a matter of they did business uh

[16:11] together, but not when he was the prime minister at all. And and and the idea that the Mossad would retain somebody like Epstein is just preposterous. Epstein uh was what he is, but he was not a Mossad agent. And and the idea is so conspiratorial and so absurd. It just focuses on because Epstein is famous and infamous. Oh, Israel must have something to do because it's Jewish. At bottom, it's a core anti-semitic notion. If

[16:41] you're Jewish, you must have some connection with Israel and you must be doing bad things and you must be a spy for Israel. It is so preposterous, so absurd. Epste was many things, but he was not. On the contrary, >> if if I were a Mossad uh officer, I would have targeted him from my first day on the job because he had access to people then would have been absolutely not >> important people with important information.

[17:13] >> You are dealing with fake information. >> Well, let's go to somebody who may know the answer for sure. Danny. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Talk to us about Jeffrey. Remember, I I reiterate what I said some 15 minutes ago. Since the Polar affair, we do not dare to do anything related to espionage in the United States of America.

[17:44] >> Weren't you the guy that tapped Bill Clinton's phone? >> I know Clinton very well because I met him the president. I'm so glad he mentioned that because the reason Polard was released is because they had a phone sex tape between Clinton and Lewinsky that was set to be released. Um, unless he stopped the whole two-state solution that he was trying to have Arafat and Ravine sign and the uh and also released Jonathan Polard who was convicted for spying on high

[18:16] ranking American officials. He was working for the American government, was convicted on spying for Israel. And um yeah, so I'm so glad this guy just mentioned that. Holy [ __ ] >> Clinton, because I met him a lot of times when I was the chief of staff of Barack and participated in all the rounds of talks with the Syrians, Palestinians, Jordanians, and the Americans. I was part of the of the group being in Cam David. I know him

[18:48] very very well. I appreciate very very well President Clinton and I think that he as all the other presidents as well assisted essentially the state of Israel. You have to understand we are a small country. We are surrounded by enemies. Till now all the terror organizations are

[19:19] with the aim to kill as many Israelis and as many Americans by the way as possible. The Iranians call us the little Satan and you they call the big Satan. So we need to have very good and professional intelligence apparatuses. >> Okay. But Danny, let me ask you. Danny, let me ask you something. Danny, let me just jump in. >> Yes. >> Danny, let me ask you something. As a as a former head of MOSAD, if Jeffrey

[19:49] Epstein had been working with Mossad, would you even tell us? Would you admit it? >> Exactly. So, how do we know? As I understand, as far as you have to believe. How do you know that there is God? >> He just said you wouldn't tell me. >> If you believe God exists. Yeah. It is a question of belief. Either you believe me or >> you just told me you wouldn't tell me if he had >> I speak.

[20:21] >> I did not meet I did not abain ever. >> I know him. >> I don't know him. Sorry. I don't know him. I don't think inense. Let me give you a fact. Let me give you a fact. Okay. Let me ask Alan >> because it was a talking over each other again. >> I'm going to make >> Hang on. Hang on, please. Everyone's talking again. Hang on. Alan. Alan. Let me ask you a Allan. Let me ask you a question. Alan, let me let me ask you a question. Have you ever worked with Mossad?

[20:51] >> Yes, I represented Mossad to help get two people out of Cyprus. I did it pro bono and I got this letter from the head of the Mossad thanking me uh for doing it. Let me tell you another thing. I was Jeffrey Epstein's lawyer. I know everything about him. If he had worked for the Mossad, he would have told me that and I would have used it as a way of trying to reduce his sentence. He didn't tell me that. He told me nothing like that. So there's no way in which he worked for the Mossad and didn't tell me

[21:23] that he worked for the Mossad because I could have used that to get him an even shorter sentence than the one he got. There is no possibility that he did that. Of course, I'm so proud of the fact that I helped to get two people out. Let me tell you what happened. They were arrested by Cyprus on the theory that they were working as spies for Turkey. Those were the days when Turkey was close to Israel. I was able to prove that in fact they were there in order to prevent a an attack from terrorists on Israeli people who were coming as

[21:54] tourists and sailing their boats there. As soon as I was able to persuade the criate authorities that that was the case, they freed them and that was a wonderful moment. They came home in time for Russashana for the Jewish holiday. >> All right, those guys are just going to keep on babbling guys. But um anyways, yeah, I mean, look, man, there there's just so much mounting evidence to suggest that Epstein was involved with Mossad uh from and I think Scott Horn was about to mention this, uh him dating Robert Maxwell's daughter, Drizzling,

[22:25] right, who uh he was a prominent MSAD figure and was uh uh literally she was saying that he would uh impose sexual intercourse with her and uh do all types of creepy [ __ ] And so there's that connection and then there's also who Barack who would constantly be on at Epstein's house, you know, giving him the blueprint as to who to target and which American officials to go for, Donald Trump being one of them. Uh there's also the uh the Lex

[22:58] Wexter connection who funded his Victoria Secret mansion. um the $77 million pedophile mansion and and there's so many connections that that just and look if if you were MSAD or if I were MSAD and this [ __ ] who knows all the American officials and by the way all these spy agencies all these intelligence agencies spy on each other and it's it's normal right whether they're allies or not they have to know what's going on. So, um,

[23:29] there's that. And then there's there's all these CIA agents coming out saying like, "Yeah, these guys used to give us gifts on during Christmas and they'd have listening devices and everything." And, uh, I think the UK prime minister said that Netanyahu snuck a listening device, uh, while he, you know, where he was going to when he was using the restroom, you know, like he he he snuck it on his toilet and this guy Netanyah Na was like listening to the guy taking shits and stuff. So, uh, yeah, bro. There's just too much mounting evidence, uh, to suggest that there was the

[24:00] connection there, um, and that, you know, all these people were working together to blackmail as many people as they can. And then, um, also the other guy, one of the the former MSAD heads said, "Oh, um, well, no, after the Jonathan Polar situation, we stopped doing espionage on the United States." Okay. Yeah. Well, how did you release Jonathan Polard? He was released. We know now because they threat literally threatened Bill Clinton

[24:32] with a phone sex tape that they were supposed to release if if Polar wasn't released and that he sabotaged the two-state solution agreement, you know. So, um, and they eventually even, you know, released some information that Lewinsky, who who was herself also involved with the Mossad, um, was given Bill Clinton's some head some, you know, heady under the table. People are wondering why didn't Hillary ever leave Bill Clinton? I mean, the guy, you know, and she knows what's up. She knows that

[25:02] it was just some [ __ ] blackmail going on, you know. So, um, yeah, man. It's just and again it's just this is the whole manipul and even if the guy knew he's not going to tell us on air you know. So yeah, just interesting interesting um way they like to twist their
