[00:00] the man who first lifted the lid on the cia's torture program has been released from prison John kiriaku worked for 14 years at the agency as an analyst and case officer in 2007 he became the first CIA official publicly to confirm the agency's use of waterboarding this is what kiriaku told us two years ago about how he angered Washington when I went on ABC News in December 2007 and I said that not only was the CIA
[00:31] torturing prisoners but that the torture policy was an official U.S government policy that was approved by the president of the United States himself the CIA filed what's called a crimes report against me the next day the justice department never stopped investigating me from December of 2007. and in the very same year that kiriaku spoke to us he was sent into two and a half years in prison for passing classified information to journalists now he's out of jail but remains under
[01:01] house arrest and he joins us live from Arlington uh John good to see you thank you very much for joining us here on RT International um my pleasure now you've described your time in detention and I quote here I hope I'm not misquoting terrible years that ruined you personally yet you've also said that it's all been worth it can you expand on that I you know I I really do believe that it was worth it I'm proud to have played a role however small in the in the outline of torture in the United States and uh
[01:33] to me the past now is water under the bridge I'm proud to have played that role and uh it's time to move on and and continue this fight for human rights and civil liberties well let's just talk a bit about what you went through if that's okay you're currently writing a book about the conditions you encountered in prison what were those conditions like for you I was surprised by by the uh by the quality of Medical Care uh the the terrible quality of Medical Care by the terrible quality of the food American prisoners aren't even fed human
[02:05] grade food I remember passing boxes cases of uh of food in the cafeteria marked uh not for human consumption feed use only or for sale only in China and the medical care was even worse there were there were almost a half a dozen deaths of prisoners while I was there in prison and almost every one of those deaths was preventable what was your motivating factor in the first place to put yourself through this you you must have known that there was a
[02:35] there was a high risk that you were that you were taking on well no whistleblower really sets out to be a whistleblower I I saw a a policy that I believed was not just wrong but was criminal and I decided to to speak about it um you know I really didn't think long term about how the US government can bring its full weight against a whistleblower the the goal really of the justice department is to ruin the Whistleblower personally professionally
[03:06] and financially I hadn't thought that through and that's exactly what happened to me but again it's opened up a whole new world for for me in the in the realm of Human Rights and civil liberties you say that the aim then is to ruin the Whistleblower Washington has officially admitted that torture took place a comprehensive report has been released do you consider this a victory oh absolutely everything that I said was true and we now know that because of the release of the torture report
[03:37] uh it's public knowledge then uh do you think the CIA will abandon its taught to practice now that it's out there in the public domain I do I do believe that the CIA will abandon torture not just because it's illegal but because the truth always has a way of coming out and I don't think the organization can withstand another Revelation that they had yet again begun a torture regime I wondered how you feel because the truth is out there um but no one as of yet has been held accountable
[04:07] that's right so I mean how do you feel about that it's it's the great irony isn't it uh you know I personally I feel that the justice department is is hypocritical uh to charge me for a crime not just me but other whistleblowers as well uh Ed Snowden uh Chelsea Manning and others uh and then to allow the tortures to go free but what really bothers me is that there's no prosecution of CIA officers who obviously violated the law those CIA officers who were conducting
[04:39] interrogations in which prisoners were killed I have no idea why there's no outrage and why those officers aren't being prosecuted and well you talk about that and the conditions that detainees are enduring for example in in Guantanamo Bay at the hands of the CIA have become I suppose somewhat of a recruiting tool for for jihadists do you think that these practices have actually done more harm than good in the in this war on terror I am I am absolutely positive that that has been the case we always seem to to
[05:10] step in a mud puddle so to speak uh where it comes to to uh things like interrogations or drone strikes or um uh attacks on individuals these these activities always serve to promote uh terrorist recruitments and you know when we first began fighting Al Qaeda in Afghanistan we were talking about a core of just several hundred people well now look at Isis which is sort of the next generation of Al Qaeda we're talking about fighting something like 35
[05:41] 000 people and I think that we've had a hand in that recruitment um how do you think that the the U.S government's attitude to whistleblowers has changed there's been a number of high profile cases including yours over the last few years I think that Americans uh are more aware of the role of whistleblowers whereas as recently as three or four years ago nobody gave whistleblowers a second thought I I have to say really since I went to prison that I've been
[06:12] overwhelmed by the support I've received uh from from average Americans across the country and I think that uh just a few years ago that wouldn't have been the case now finally after all that you've gone through I have to ask you would you go through it again would you blow the whistle once more I would I would do it again as as terrible as it's been as difficult as it's been I have a family that is Rock Solid in its support of me and a family that knows
[06:44] right from wrong torture is wrong I'm proud to have played a role in the end of torture as U.S government policy and I would do it all again John kiriako a former CIA agent uh thank you very much for your time and joining us here on RT International the man who first lifted the lid on the cia's torture program has been released from prison John kiriaku worked for 14 years at the agency as an analyst and case officer in 2007 he became the first CIA official publicly to confirm the
[07:14] agency's use of waterboarding this is what kiriaku told us two years ago about how he angered Washington when I went on ABC News in December 2007 and I said that not only was the CIA torturing prisoners but that the torture policy was an official U.S government policy that was approved by the president of the United States himself the CIA filed what's called a crimes report against me the next day the
[07:44] justice department never stopped investigating me from December of 2007. and in the very same year that kiriaku spoke to us he was sentenced to two and a half years in prison for passing classified information to journalists now he's out of jail but remains under house arrest and he joins us live from Arlington uh John good to see you thank you very much for joining us here on RT International um my pleasure now you've described your time in detention and I quote here I hope I'm not misquoting terrible years that ruined you personally yet you've
[08:15] also said that it's all been worth it can you expand on that I you know I I really do believe that it was worth it I'm proud to have played a role however small in the in the outlying of torture in the United States and uh to me the past now is water under the bridge I'm proud to have played that role and it's time to move on and and continue this fight for human rights and civil liberties well let's just talk a bit about what you went through if that's okay you're currently writing a book about the conditions you
[08:46] encountered in prison what were those conditions like for you I was surprised by by the uh by the quality of Medical Care uh the the terrible quality of Medical Care by the terrible quality of the food American prisoners aren't even fed human grade food I remember passing boxes cases of uh of food in the cafeteria marked uh not for human consumption feed use only or for sale only in China and
[09:16] the medical care was even worse there were there were almost a half a dozen deaths of prisoners while I was there in prison and almost every one of those deaths was preventable what was your motivating factor in the first place to put yourself through this you you must have known that there was a there was a high risk that you were that you were taking on well no whistleblower really sets out to be a whistleblower I I saw a a policy that I believed was not just wrong but
[09:47] was criminal and I decided to to speak about it um you know I really didn't think long term about how the US government can bring its full weight against a whistleblower the the goal really of the justice department is to ruin the Whistleblower personally professionally and financially I hadn't thought that through and that's exactly what happened to me but again it's opened up a whole new world for for me in the in the realm of Human Rights and civil liberties you say that the aim then is to ruin the
[10:18] Whistleblower Washington has officially admitted that torture took place a comprehensive report has been released do you consider this a victory oh absolutely everything that I said was true and we now know that because of the release of the torture report uh it's public knowledge then uh do you think the CIA will abandon its taught to practice now that it's out there in the public domain I do I do believe that the CIA will abandon torture not just because it's illegal but because the truth always has
[10:50] a way of coming out and I don't think the organization can withstand another Revelation that they had yet again begun a torture regime I wondered how you feel because the truth is out there um but no one as of yet has been held accountable that's right so I mean how do you feel about that it's it's the great irony isn't it uh you know I personally I feel that the justice department is is hypocritical uh to charge me for a crime not just me but other whistleblowers as well uh Ed Snowden uh Chelsea Manning
[11:24] and others uh and then to allow the tortures to go free but what really bothers me is that there's no prosecution of CIA officers who obviously violated the law those CIA officers who were conducting interrogations in which prisoners were killed I have no idea why there's no outrage and why those officers aren't being prosecuted and well you talk about that and the conditions that detainees are enduring for example in in Guantanamo Bay at the hands of the CIA have become I suppose
[11:55] somewhat of a recruiting tool for for jihadists do you think that these practices have actually done more harm than good in the in this war on terror I am absolutely positive that that has been the case we always seem to to step in a mud puddle so to speak uh where it comes to to uh things like interrogations or drone strikes or um uh attacks on individuals these these activities always serve to promote uh terrorist recruitments and you know when
[12:27] we first began fighting Al Qaeda in Afghanistan we were talking about a core of just several hundred people well now look at Isis which is sort of the next generation of Al Qaeda we're talking about fighting something like 35 000 people and I think that we've had a hand in that recruitment um how do you think that the the U.S government's attitude to whistleblowers has changed there's been a number of high profile cases including yours over the last few years
[12:57] I think that Americans uh are more aware of the role of whistleblowers whereas as recently as three or four years ago nobody gave whistleblowers