[00:00] This freaks me out. Oh, I got chills just thinking about it. And he goes, "Five, four, three, two, one." And he wakes up and his arm falls and he looks around and he says, "What happened?" And then he goes and then vomits all over himself. I called my boss at headquarters. I said, "This is the craziest thing I've ever seen." And my boss says, "I'm freaking out over the stolen license plate." I have to tell you the the one operation that I did with a with an agency psychologist was the most fun I have
[00:32] ever had in a single operation. We had a walk-in. We had a walk a walk-in is somebody who literally walks in to an to an American embassy off the street and says, "I have intelligence I want to pass to the CIA." 95% of them are lunatics. the the other 5% are intelligence peddlers who just want you to give them a couple hundred dollars and then they go to the British embassy and the Russian embassy and the French embassy
[01:03] and the Israeli embassy and they just do the same thing and then that's a month's salary, right? Um some are uh probes from terrorist groups or enemy countries. They're just looking to see where the cameras are, how thick the doors are, who's armed or not armed, how far into the embassy they can get before they're stopped. But most of them are just lunatics. And then there's 1% that's the real
[01:34] deal. If you look historically by reading Cold War era memoirs, the best recruits the CIA has ever had were walk-ins. Because you don't know who this Russian KGB colonel is. You're never going to encounter him. But then one day, he just walks into an embassy somewhere and says, "I'm a KGB colonel and I want to give you everything I have and I want a million dollars." And you say, "I'll get the giant sack of money."
[02:05] you start writing. You know, I'm being facitious, of course, but not too much. So, we had a walk-in who said that he had seen an assassination. He he said that he's driving down this highway and he has to take a leak. And so, he pulls off an exit and there's this old abandoned church there and he parks his car behind this big banyan tree and he takes he's taking a leak. And while he's taking a leak,
[02:36] a van pulls up. A bunch of guys get out of the back of the van. The source sees two motorcycles in the back of the van. And here's one of the guys say, "Does he still live?" And the other one says, "He should be dead by now." So he says, "I think this was this terrorist group that you guys are after." And we said, "Will you sit with a sketch artist?" He said, "Yes."
[03:09] And he did the sketches and they were really, really close to photographs we had of people that we suspected were in this terrorist group. So, we turned him over to the FBI and the FBI interviewed him. They said, "He's full of [ __ ] He's nuts. We're done. Well, we just took him back and we said,
[03:40] "How about if we fly to London, we have a nice dinner, everybody's relaxed, we're all friends, and we talk about this in more detail." He said, "Great." So, we fly him to London. He was so poor, the poor guy. I remember this. He flew to London. was freezing and he didn't own a coat. So, I went out and bought him a coat uh just so he wouldn't, you know, be frozen solid by the end of the the 3 or 4 days. So, I
[04:12] flew out to London with two psychologists, but one of the psychologists was a licensed hypnotist and um and I flew out there with another case officer. So, we both spoke the language and so we're going to act as translators for the hypnotist. It's hard work being a translator. And let me tell you, and you have to be like speaking like this. We're going to count
[04:43] backwards. 10 9 8. It's very hard. So the night before we go out to some bookstore, we go to a nice restaurant without the guy. The guy hasn't arrived yet. So just the agency people. We went out. This is going to be our plan. We're going to, you know, have all the lights off. We're going to be in the darkened hotel room, speak very softly. We're going to put them under. And I said, "Come on." I said, I said,
[05:14] "Hypnosis isn't really a thing, right?" It always just seemed like [ __ ] to me. And he said, "No, no, no." He said, "We're going to we're going to really put him under." And he said, 'You know, the funny thing is that smart people go under much more quickly than stupid people do, which I still don't fully understand, but he said, "We're going to we're going to ask him all these questions." I said, "Well, how long does this last?" He said, "If if we get him under quickly, we could do this for two and a half or three hours." I'm like, okay, this is
[05:45] going to be tough being the translator. So, the guy arrives and you know, welcome. This is Dr. So and so, this is the other Dr. So and so, and you know, my colleague, and so, you know, get comfortable. You need a drink or you've used the bathroom. We're going to we're going to hypnotize you to help you remember some of the things that you saw that day. So,
[06:15] this is one of the wackiest things that ever I ever witnessed at the agency. So, I was the first translator and I told him, "We're going to count backwards from 10 and just relax and think about the numbers." Right? So, we start and he said, "I want you to raise your hand like this." And it wasn't propped. It was up in the air like this. And he said, "Don't put your hand down until I
[06:46] tell you to." He held his arm there for 3 hours. It was inhuman. A conscious person couldn't do it. So the guy is out before we get to zero, counting back from 10. So, I start asking him questions. Okay, you pull off the exit. You drive to the church. The church is right off to the side of the road. You go behind the
[07:17] banyan tree. Then what are you doing? He said, "I'm peeing." And then what happens? A van pulls up. What does the van look like? It's painted red and it has some rust spots over the the rear wheels. Then what do you see? The back door is open. I see two motorcycles and two men inside. I said, "Can you see a license plate?" This freaks me out. Oh, I got chills just
[07:48] thinking about it. I said, "Can you see a license plate?" He says, "Yes." And his he's like this with his eyes closed. I said, "What does the license plate say?" and he goes and then he reads off the plate. So I write it down. I hand it to my colleague. He goes into the other room and he calls headquarters. He says, "We need to run a plate ASAP." So headquarters sends an immediate cable out to the field. Call liaison. Run this plate right now. And the plate comes
[08:18] back stolen. I couldn't [ __ ] believe it. I couldn't believe it. And he's like this the whole time. So I said, "Are the men talking?" "Yes." "What are they saying? Does he still live? He should be dead by now." And then what happens? And he says, "They see me." I said, "They see you. Do they approach you?" He said, "Yes." And one punches me in the face. And then what? He said, "I'm bleeding."
[08:50] And I told them, "I didn't hear anything." And he went on like this. It was this long elaborate three-hour long story. So I took notes like ridiculous, you know, filled a notebook full of notes. I called my boss at headquarters. I said, "This is the craziest thing I've ever seen." And my boss says, "I'm freaking out over the stolen license plate." He goes, "This may be the real deal." I I write all the notes. I go back to the station in London. I I write all the
[09:21] notes and I send it back out into the field and they're like, "Oh my god, the details incredible." Okay, we're going to try to get with him when he returns to country. So, a couple of weeks pass and then he triggers a meeting and so my colleague who I'd been with in London flies out to meet with him and the guy says, "They know who I am. They kidnapped me and they took me to a house and they beat me.
[09:53] And we're like, "Okay, where where was the house? When did this happen? How many of them were there? What did they look like? Were this were they the same guys you saw at the church?" He answered all these questions. And I said to my colleague, I said, "This doesn't make sense because the only way they would know who he was is if they were, you know, with us. We knew where he lived, but there's no way that they would know." It just
[10:24] didn't make any sense. So, I go to the FBI and it there's this one agent. She's actually big mucky muck now in the FBI. And she goes, "You CIA people, you all have your heads up your asses," she said. And I said, "No, you FBI people." I said, "You think everybody's lying to you." I said, "We're going to get medals when we crack this case." And she goes, "Ah, you people." So, she wasn't helpful to me. Then he calls a second time and he says
[10:58] um that they kidnapped him again, but he had a tape recorder on him and the tape recorder was in his pocket and he recorded the whole encounter. We're like, "Okay, that's way too good to be true, but let's listen to the tape." So, we play the tape and he's like, it's his voice and he says, "Hey, I know you. Don't hurt me." And then also his voice,
[11:30] "I am the Minister of Public Order and I demand that you tell me about the CIA people that you're meeting with." And I was like, "Motherfucker, you made the whole [ __ ] thing up, didn't you? So, we decided to fly him back out to London. Oh, let me finish the first part first. So, he's got his arm like this. And the hypnotist says, "I'm going to count backwards to five and then you're
[12:00] going to wake up." And he goes 5 4 3 2 1. And he wakes up and his arm falls and he looks around and he says, "What happened?" And then he goes and then vomits all over himself. So he runs into the bathroom in the hotel room to clean himself up. And the hypnotist who was like 110 years old, he goes, "You know, I've read about this in the literature, but I've never seen it
[12:31] happen." I said, "I can't believe he held his arm up like that for 3 hours. It was nuts." So anyway, we fly him back out to London. We said, "No more [ __ ] You made this up." No, no. It was the Minister of Public Order. He's with the terrorists. We're like, "No, we we ran a spectros a spectroscope on this. It's it's you with your hand over your mouth to try to make a different voice." And he's like, "Oh, well, my wife has cancer and I I was
[13:02] hoping that if you believed me that you would pay for her cancer treatment and I wanted her to go to the Mayo Clinic." And we're like, "Doesn't work that way." And then the FBI just says, "I told you, you [ __ ] idiots. I told you three months ago it was a lie." So I was like, "Yeah, okay. Well, you win this one." >> But the hypnosis part was actually that was real. >> That that he saw something at the church that day. It probably wasn't the
[13:33] terrorists, but it was something unoured. It was probably a bunch of guys that stole two motorcycles. >> What's up, guys? Thank you so much for taking the time to watch the interview. If you got anything out of this video at all, please like the video, leave me a comment, tell me what you thought of the video. Uh, tell me who you'd like to see on the show. I really appreciate the support. It goes a long way on these platforms, as you guys know. Most importantly, I have some excellent interviews coming up in the future that
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