[00:03] I think the reason US for decades for decades has weaponized the occupation of Palestine has stood steadfast behind the Zionist project is because what the Palestinian movement represents and is is Arab nationalism the struggle to have control of your own resources your own land and that's why it's so crucial just like they did in removing first nation peoples when this country is being formed with the gen the settler colonial genocide of around 12 million people is the people for the
[00:33] project the colonial project to to um succeed. You have to remove the people from the land. Hi, I'm John Kiryaku and welcome back to Deep Focus. Gaza remains in the news every single day. And while we talk frequently about human rights violations there and and different things that the Israeli military and government have done to carry out what amounts to really a
[01:04] genocide in Gaza, uh it still deserves to be at the very top of our minds. Well, we're recording this on Friday the 7th of November and uh I wanted I wanted to tell you about a call I received today. It was from a contact of mine in the Israeli government. He said something that was very interesting. He said that the Israeli government has reached out to private American companies to redevelop Gaza. private
[01:35] American companies working with the Israeli government, not with Gaza Palestinians, to rebuild Gaza. I said to this contact of mine, "What about the idea that the Israeli press is talking about that Israel would own Gaza, but Saudi Arabia would administer it and would spend its own oil money there to create a a port and an airport and hospitals and pave the roads and really get the place
[02:07] going." and he said that's being discussed in the newspapers but not by members of the Israeli military. So it looks like the fix is already in. We're going to talk about this and other issues related to Gaza with Seth Donnelly. Seth is a longtime activist and even more important than being an activ activist, he's an author and the co-founder of Taxpayers Against Genocide. Seth S, thanks so much for for
[02:38] joining us. I I'm I'm tongue tied here because there's so much to say and so little time to get it out. Thanks for being with us today. >> Really good to be here, John. Really appreciate your program and your work. >> Thank you. Appreciate everything that that you're doing. And you know, the the timing of this, Seth, is perfect because >> this is American taxpayers money transferred to the Israeli government that is used to carry out this genocide in in Gaza. Well, now it's time to start rebuilding. Uh, and it looks like the
[03:08] Israelis intend to lay ownership claim to everything in Gaza. What did we make of this? >> Well, it it's um it's really what we're seeing unfold, as you were saying in your intro, is it's it's the ongoing uh extension of the of the genocide. And it's it's you know it's a it's really the the genocide in the service of ethnic cleansing and to um this sort of
[03:39] violent gentrification that's going to you know the Trump vision remember that that ridiculous social media post he put out of that video um can't remember if it was 6 months or you know I think it was about six months ago where it showed gauze in the future and and he put it out on his forum you know so it was it was it was clearly absurd but yet Trump put it out and we should therefore take it seriously that it was showing Gaza in the future without Palestinians and with Trump and Netanyahu on the beach together. Um but you know it's it's the vision. We see a very similar thing
[04:10] playing out in other parts of the world too like for example in Haiti where there's the slow motion genocide happening uh under essentially a a de facto occupation administered by the US government and what's called the core group ever since the coup against president Ariststeed in 2004 and the objective is to remove the people and take over the the resources and so clearly that's in play in Gaza and and as you mentioned it's it's it's our tax dollars that not only funded the bombs but have also funded that are that are funding this this this reconstruction plan.
[04:44] >> I've said uh I've said a number of times that when I was stationed in Saudi Arabia in 1991, long time ago now, 1991, the the Saudis told us that they had gone through a back channel to the Israelis and said that they wanted to develop Gaza. They wanted to build a a seapport and an airport and a water desalination plant and an electrical grid. big ticket multi-billion dollar items and the Israelis said absolutely not. This is when Hamas was so tiny that
[05:17] nobody was even paying attention to it. And the Israelis said absolutely not. There was never any plan to develop Gaza. There was never any plan to allow Gaza Palestinians to have, you know, 24 hours a day of electricity or 24 hours a day of of portable water. Why why would it be different now? Exactly. I mean, what Trump Trump's so-called peace plan is, as as many people have been saying, particularly Palestinian commentators, it's it's it's
[05:47] neocolonial. It's a neoc colonial plan, right? the the governance uh of of Gaza will be turned over to what the media euphemistically calls Palestinian technocrats. But really uh the driving force is the international um board that uh Trump has named himself and Tony Blair to to oversee. So it's you know and then the US is coming in to provide a command role with their with military presence in Israel to administer the the peace the
[06:18] quoteunquote peacekeeping force. It's supposed to roll out in phase two of the ceasefire, which of course hasn't happened yet. But, uh, in the meantime, every day practically, people are being killed. Um, Israel, per the plan, committed to bring in 600 trucks of aid per day. Um, they're only bringing in at best a 100. So, they're only one six. It was just about a week ago that in a single day they killed over 100 Palestinians, about half of whom were children. And um
[06:49] you know it's it's it's an ongoing slow at this point they've ratcheted down from killing a 100 people a day to an average maybe you know more like 10 people a day but the ongoing structures of starvation and uh and deprivation remain in effect. So it's to call this a ceasefire is itself um somewhat Orwellian. Well, and you know, that's an interesting thing because yeah, in here in the West, we're calling it a ceasefire. The the Israelis call it more
[07:19] than a ceasefire. This is this is Israel's opportunity to to, you know, finally stomp out uh any remnants of uh of resistance. I mentioned a minute ago that today is Friday. We're recording this on Friday, November 7th. This morning, the government of Kazakhstan announced that it was recognizing Israel and opening an embassy as part of the Abraham Accords. Nobody expected that. Not that it really means terribly much. Uh the real uh the real cherry on top of
[07:52] the Abraham Accords for the Trump administration and for the Israelis, frankly, is going to be Saudi recognition of Israel. What do countries get Saudi Arabia aside? What do countries get out of turning their backs on the Palestinians and recognizing Israel? What what is in Kazakhstan's national interest that it would agree, for example, to do something like this? >> Well, I can't speak to the specifics of Kazakhstan, but but certainly we see the
[08:24] pressure that the Trump administration is putting on central and East European um countries. And there's I'm sure there's a there's so a myriad of tactics and pressure points and incentives. We saw that when they were able to to peel away like five or six additional countries to be abstensions in the recent vote against the blockade on Cuba which were primarily central and east European countries that um so there's there are leverage what that exact leverage points are in the case of Kazakhstan I can't speak to but
[08:55] certainly with Saudi Arabia you know I just read that the crown prince is coming to these states soon and it's a way to further consolidate um well consolidate is the wrong verb because it's already fully consolidated over decades that the petro dollar agreement with Saudi Arabia and the weapons that they get um from the US but it deepens that relationship you know and clearly the the Trump vision will be to have joint venture foreign investment partners including the Saudis in Gaza
[09:25] which is uh resourcerich um and um and you know the it allows uh I just read that Qatar had received a special protection agreement from the United States and it goes beyond even what the Saudis have. So I think the Saudis are still looking to to deepen their relationship um the monarchy uh with the US and of course they fear their own population. The Palestinian struggle, as
[09:56] they often say in the mainstream media, hits a nerve on um the Arab main streets throughout the Middle East and these corrupt monarchies in neocolonial regimes know that whether it's CC in Egypt or the crown prince in Egypt. So that their ultimate protection against their own population is the US. So let me ask you a more direct question then. What does the US get out of all this? What? I I understand the the political desire of whoever happens to be in the White House wanting to support Israel
[10:27] for better, for worse. In my view, mostly for worse. But what does the US get out of all this? Why does the US stand by and watch this genocide take place in uh in Gaza and continue to support the Israelis to a to a level to an extent that just doesn't happen anywhere else on the planet? Well, I still think that's that's, you know, a key question that I wish was asked more because in the a lot of the these discussions in the mainstream
[10:58] press, it doesn't ever get to this level, but um there's that classic State Department memo that eventually got declassified. I think it was from 1948 that George Kennan authored. It was I think um State Department memo, forget the actual number on it, but Kenan, it's a famous state department memo in which Kenan laid out internally the grand area planning post World War II that that the the regions of the world were essentially to be in service of the US economy. Um and that the real threat to to that
[11:34] extraction and those trade flows um would is would would be you know anti-colonial nationalist uh movements and governments and of course the US would would would use the label communism to tar all those movements you know whether it's Mosc and Iran and uh Barbins in Guatemala or or Leamba in the Congo or I saw your program recently on on um
[12:05] you know that was discussing the drug the the Gary web and the Iran Contra and you know of course the Senas were a mix they weren't just purely communists but no matter who you were it was Christians it was radical based theology folks that made up the FSL and government along with some Marxists but regardless all movements that were nationalists were called communist and so the what The real the I think the reason US for decades like for decades has weaponized the occupation of Palestine has stood
[12:36] steadfast behind the Zionist project is because what the Palestinian movement represents and is is Arab nationalism the struggle to have control of your own resources your own land and that's why it's so crucial just like they did in removing first nation peoples when this country is being formed with the gen the settler colonial genocide of around 12 million people is the people for the project the colonial project to to um succeed you have to remove the people from the land and so that's we see to
[13:07] this day with this Abraham Accords the so-called peace plan the an ongoing pressure I mean Israel still controls over half of Gaza and this ongoing pressure to remove the Palestinians and crush the whole notion that the Middle East should belong to the people who live there >> tell us a little bit about about why aid is not making its way to Gaza or why aid is only entering Gaza in a trickle. You said a minute ago that about6 of
[13:37] what the Israelis have committed to is actually making its way in. We've already seen starvation uh in Gaza. That's been well documented. >> So aside from Israeli intrigence, is there a reason why aid isn't getting there? Well, certainly the complicity of the US and the uh the US and Egypt, you know, especially, you know, complicit in the genocide and um so those those points like the Rafa
[14:09] crossing and the points coming into Gaza, if Egypt had had stood up and um obviously if the US had said no, we see that that the US really is the godfather of this genocide. So it it really could have never needed it could have been stopped in a day under the Biden administration, but Biden really um was even more than Trump. The Biden administration is is culpable for what we've seen happen. Um but um but yeah, I mean it's I think it's on that level,
[14:41] John. I think it's that simple. I think that without the complicity of the Egyptian US governments that that the aid would be reached. Now, the International Court of Justice, I think it was last week, just ruled that UNRWA, the United Nations Relief Organization, that's the main relief organization operating in in Palestine, um, has to be permitted to deliver the aid. And right away, Mark Marco Rubio said, "Well, we're not going to allow Renro to function." as if the US, again, that kind of colonial mindset, the Monroe
[15:12] Doctrine mindset in Latin America being applied to the Middle East. Um, as if the US can dictate, you know, and just flaunt the International Court of Justice, which of course the US thinks that they can, but that's where we come in as taxpayers against genocide. I don't know if your listeners, and I and I don't want to, you know, take away the the flow of the the interview. >> No, no, go ahead. Go ahead and tell us. Lay it out. >> Yeah. were a grassroots movement of thousands of taxpayers across the country that realized that this engine of genocide
[15:42] uh could not function could the pistons could not keep pumping if it weren't for our money. And so really we're we're we're complicit. in the Nerberg principles established very clearly, you know, after World War II when the Nazis and Japanese war criminals are put on trial that um ordinary people have a duty to resist, you know, and so at a bare minimum, what we're doing is organizing a movement of taxpayers um to both put our our bodies on the line with with, you know, nonviolent
[16:13] protests and arms embargo work across the country where we're following the leadership of groups like Palestinian Youth Movement, but then We're also working with the National Lawyers Guild and the amazing attorney Heda Araf who's one of the co-founders of the flotillaa movement and we filed with her leadership as the lead attorney. We filed the only international complaint in the world that systematically takes the US to account for its driving role in this genocide. And that was filed, the most complete version of it was just filed last uh October 7th with the
[16:44] Interamerican Commission on Human Rights, which is the the official body in our in the Americas to uh that adjudicates abuses by human rights governments. It can't prosecute unfortunately, but it's a stepping stone towards seeking prosecution. So, we're we're encouraging folks if you're watching this or listening to this to to get involved because really it's the grassroots power and especially as our powers taxpayers that I think there's tremendous potential in this. >> I want to talk about that in in more
[17:14] depth uh in a moment, but you said something that's important I want to come back to. Um let's talk for a minute about Egypt because you know Egypt has kind of two faces in this conflict. On the one hand, Egypt is not just an Arab country. It's Umadona, right? It's the mother of the earth in every Egyptian school child knows that Egypt is Umadona. And um uh Egypt has 116 million people. Uh it's a gigantic country. U at the same time, it was the first Arab
[17:46] country to make peace with Israel, the Camp David Accords during the Carter presidency. And it's still a very poor country where on the one hand the Egyptian people, the average Egyptian on the street wants to do something, anything to help his Palestinian brothers. At the same time, you you don't want the border open because Palestinians are going to come into Egypt and take jobs that practically don't exist that Egyptians could take. Uh so the Egyptians are of two minds
[18:17] over Rafa. Do they want Rafa open or do they want Rafa closed? I think that the Egyptian government wants it closed. And in that respect, they're um they're partnered with the Israelis. So, what do you think we should expect from the Egyptian government? And do you expect pressure from the Egyptian people to change the Egyptian government's policy on Gaza? Well, certainly Egypt, you know, is the second largest
[18:47] after Israel, the second largest recipient of US military aid in the world. The US has decades of sustaining a neoc colonial regime in Egypt. you know, uh, first and foremost with Mubarak and then the people did rise up, right, with the Tahar Square uprising emblematic of that the Arab Spring. Um, and then but then that that that uprising uh was not completed in terms of translating into a popular democratic revolutionary government. Um, so instead
[19:19] we we we have this new neoc colonial regime that's quite repressive led by General Cece. Um so under his iron rule um we can't to answer your question we can't expect much from the government if you know I I heard a very strong analysis on on this very question in an interview that Jeremy Scill did recently where he was um if I remember his argument correctly and you know he's a Jeremy Scale is a really good journalist with Drop Site News um for your
[19:51] listeners but Scale was saying that that the government of Egypt doesn't want to see, you know, a real opening, whether it's of the uh the Rafa crossing or more really what he was saying is they don't want to see the the Palestinian resistance succeed. But on the other hand, it's to the benefit that there's some ongoing conflict that the resistance isn't completely exterminated, but it's just subordinate and weak because then that also justifies Egypt's role to keep receiving large sums of military aid from the US and sort of be a gatekeeper, right? So
[20:23] regardless of their motivations, their actions clearly show that that they don't when push comes to shove they don't support the Palestinian cause. Some um they don't um play a reliable role and they don't they don't support the opening that could have saved you know who knows how many lives. um a lot of folks on the global march to uh you know there's a global march this last summer to Gaza had to go to Egypt to then try to march um into Gaza and we had some very key tag taxpayers against
[20:56] genocide leaders that went on that and the stories they had of the level of surveillance and repression by the Egyptian police was was just you know >> oh it was just it was just a couple of years ago that media Benjamin went with a group from Code Pink. And the Egyptians literally broke her arm. I mean, Medadia is a little tiny. I mean, maybe maybe she's 90 or 95 pounds, >> but they they physically broke her arm >> um arresting her just because she was
[21:26] trying to get to Rafa to uh escort a shipment of of food. >> Yeah. >> Into into Gaza. >> Yeah. Yeah. And that's that's a perfect example. So this is the kind of regime that is a pillar just like there was like you know the sha of Iran um and you and of course Israel and the Saudi you know I mean here's you know how how quickly we're asked to have amnesia about Jamal Kosigible right like after being uh murdered and dismembered in in
[21:57] the Saudi embassy and the crown prince clearly being involved in that now he's he's supposedly a man of peace and we're supposed to forget the genocide in Yemen where the Saudi US invasion just pumped pummeled. At one point, the UN was saying that was the worst humanitarian crisis in the world. But, you know, in Orwell's landscape, these things no longer exist. It's just the Abraham Accords and peace. Listen, I I spent my entire adult life either working on the Middle East or living in the Middle East. I was one of the CIA's leading experts on the Middle
[22:28] East. And I have just never understood this this this regionwide dislike of Palestinians. I spent much of my career in the Persian Gulf, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Bahrain for the most part. Although I spent some time in the Emirates and in gutter as well. Um, and I never understood why there was this hatred for the Palestinians. I get that Yaser Arafat backed Saddam Hussein during the first Gulf War. But, but the Palestinians make up the entire middle class of these families. They are the
[23:01] bankers, the professors, the lawyers, the engineers, the teachers. They're the ones that make these economies run and they're Arabs and they're mostly Muslims. So, I just don't understand why the rest of the countries Egypt I get it because the Egyptians are poor and they're right on the border. I get it. But the rest of these countries you would think would be would beating each other up to see who could do the most for the Palestinian people and they're not. >> Yeah.
[23:31] >> And they never have been. >> Yeah. >> What do you make of that? But that's again where you peel away the the curtain or you pull away the curtain and you see who the nature of these regimes, right? Whether it's King Hussein and Jordan or or um you know again the sha the the the very and and look at the United Arab Emirates, right? That you know that this cozy relationship they have with the US and they get tons of military from the US which is indirectly completely fueling the genocide in Sudan, right? So you know it's just like
[24:01] you can look at any region of the world. You can look at at Africa and you can look at why isn't there more pan-African unity against you know in the in the postw World War II era and it's well they come in and US and say Belgium come in and murder Lamba and then put in Mabu. >> Let's let's talk about that because you're involved you're not just involved in in humanitarian outreach in Gaza. Taxpayers against genocide is against genocide no matter where it happens to take place. So, let's let's talk about
[24:32] Sudan. Um, you've got the Saudis on one side of that fight and the Amiradis on another side of that fight and the and the Americans supplying arms and material to both sides. you you've got, you know, the the the essentially the lynching of Muamar Gaddafi back in what was it 2011 um at the with the support of the United States just at a time when Gaddafi was spending his money to develop subsaharan African countries and to spread the
[25:02] wealth in Africa. So what's the situation now especially in the Sahel and in subsaharan Africa in Sudan and South Sudan with these genocides? What can you tell us? Well, the what we can see the the the kind of the the big macro pattern is that the US and its it's its subordinate European allies in the west that have interests in you know ongoing colonial interests like France
[25:33] right in the Sahel um that that the project of the so-called western powers is to maintain chaos and destabilization which even though that there's that favorite that that famous slogan that investment clim you know that that companies want a stable quotequote stable investment climate we've seen quite well that extraction of profits can be made in the midst of instability what what what the west fears the most is a unified popular uh power in in
[26:04] Africa and that's exactly what's happening right now in the Sahel where we see more you know the you know with countries uniting and nationalizing their resources and saying sending the French companies and you know getting off the French currency and and and whatnot define the dictates of the IMF. So it's the similar very similar pattern to what we what we see in the Middle East where the US would rather uh work through neocolonial regimes and if push comes to shove if if there's a threat of
[26:36] popular revolution or rebellion like with the Palestinians then it would rather rely upon violence and destabilization to maintain power than to see um popular democratic unity. Um and that's clearly the case. you know that that's also explains why the US um hasn't um put a stop to um you know its its involvement in the slow motion genocide that's been happening in the Congo um all these decades. it hasn't you know it also shows why the US was so
[27:07] hostile to the ANC you know and uh actually collaborated and you know with the CIA was involved in in supporting the jailing of Mandela you know so it's it's a again it's very similar pattern and we it's very on display too right now in Latin America with with the attempts to reassert really violently through extrajudicial killings illegal killings of you know um the folks on these boats outside of Venezuela I want to ask you too about something that Donald Trump said a week ago. He he
[27:38] he said quite publicly on Truth Social that he's considering um sending troops to Nigeria of all places. He alleged um this mass killing of Christians. Now there has been well doumented attacks against uh Christians in northern Nigeria attributed to Boka Haram which is a Muslim um terrorist group. There is al-Qaeda in the Sahel that has attacked
[28:11] schools and churches but there are also Muslims being killed in large numbers in uh Nigeria. What's the situation in Nigeria? Are we looking at a genocide? Does this not meet the internationally agreed upon definition of a genocide? And do you think that Donald Trump is serious about sending combat troops to Nigeria? >> Well, I was just thinking on the last the very last question if he's serious. I mean, one thing we've learned in Trump's second term is that yes, he's a
[28:42] consmate grifter, but but certain things he sends out as trial balloons or floats out there that seem insane, he actually has been implementing second term. So, I don't know, but I don't think I mean, the limited knowledge I have and I I I need to study what's happening in Nigeria. Um, but from what I understand, it's not even close to a genocide. I mean it it's actually a a gross manipulation of the word genocide that he's doing just like they use this idea there was a genocide in South Africa
[29:13] against white farmers. I mean yeah there's violence and there's but this is not what but yet then there's very real genocides like what we see happening in Sudan you know um just last week and and and beyond and what we see happening in of course in in Palestine and interesting enough that never was brought up. There's a slow motion genocide happening in Haiti. It's it's absolutely horrific. There's now over a million and a half people have been displaced. There are relentless murders by what the US media calls gangs to seem like it's not their responsibility.
[29:43] There are really death squads weaponized and working with the US. Nine times out of 10, they're working with the US backed regime and the US backed oligarchy in Haiti who fund the fund these paramilitaries. In any event, they turn everything upside down. So like they can take sporadic acts of violence um that are very real and conflate those with genocide and yet then they're see we're seeing industrial scale slaughter of populations and yet they completely fund that and weaponize that and we're seeing
[30:14] systematic starvation of populations like in Gaza or Haiti and they completely um ignore that. So I I again I I know I've used this word a fair amount in this interview but it's it's Orwellian. It's double speak. You know what we can expect. I I don't I don't know, you know. Um but yet the very real involvement, what comes closer to a real genocide in Nigeria in recent times was what was done against the Agoni people and when they set up the murder, the US backed military regime there set up the murder of Kerowi for speaking out
[30:46] against how Shell and Chevron were were destroying their land. Again, it's the land question. And the Agoni people were nonviolently resisting in the '9s saying, "No, we want our land. We don't want it to be despoiled." the the drilling is contaminating our waters and the USbacked military regime in Nigeria, you know, as some folks might remember if they went live through this um murdered some of the key activists under bogus trial. Now, the slaughter and the massacre of people and of the Agoni
[31:17] people and the murder of their leaders, that's that's genocidal, but that was again with US tax dollars. I have a friend who um is an eminent constitutional scholar here in Washington. He's a former deputy attorney general of the United States and he represents the Keran people of uh Myanmar. He told me recently that um Myanmar is the only country on earth that has been consistently at war since the start of World War II. It's not had
[31:47] one single day of peace since the beginning of World War II. It's the only country in the world that that is in a situation like this. And it's all self-imposed where there is a genocide against the Karan people. There's a genocide against this people and that people and every different tribe that might want some kind of autonomy or or quas autonomy in uh Myanmar is at war with the central government. Is this something that you lose sleep over? Is this something that you lobby the American government about?
[32:20] I haven't been involved u nor has tag at this point been involved in this struggle on Myammar and and Burma but certainly one of the things that both me personally myself personally and tag is that as you said earlier even though the focal point of our work is solidarity with Palestine in this moment we do make the connections and ultimately we're opposed to our tax dollars being used to fund genocide anywhere in the world and to sustain the US empire at the expense of humanity. You know, the 800 military
[32:52] bases, the extraction of resources. Um, we recognize like, you know, Abby Martin just came up with this this new documentary apparently. I'm eager to see it, but it's it's the greatest enemy of the earth. Something about just the waste generated by the US military machine and how it's destroying the planet. But we recognize these things. And so, um, certainly down the road, we would like I would like to make connections to the struggle. I know that I've been in actions and with folks who are part of the uh the the struggle in
[33:24] Myammar here in solidarity with it, folks in diaspora, and it's something I'd like to learn more about and and and make sure that we we connect we we connect those struggles. >> I want to ask you, circling back to the Middle East for a minute, I want to ask you about the situation for uh Syria's Kurds. You know, it it it seems to me like just as the Kurds get to a point where they may they may win some autonomy, let's say, or or rights within
[33:55] the country where they happen to live, be it Iraq or Turkey or Syria or Iran or even, you know, there's a little slice of Armenia that has a that has a sizable Kur K Kurdish minority. uh just as they get to the point where things look like they may improve, they're slapped down again. >> And the United States more than once has turned its backs, uh its collective back, I should say, on the Kurdish people, especially Iraq's Kurds. What do you what do you see as prospects for
[34:27] Syria's Kurds now that Bashar al-Assad is long gone? He's living in Moscow and um and Syria has a new president supported by the United States. >> Yeah. >> Uh even though he is a former member of both al-Qaeda and ISIS. What does all this mean for Syria's Kurds? >> Well, it can't be good, right? Like one thing we as you mentioned, one thing we've learned if we study the history honestly is that the US has no
[34:57] commitment to the well-being of the Kurdish people. And in fact, it's the opposite. Not only did they, the US, as you mentioned, turned its collective back on the Kurds in the, you know, said in the early 90s, um, with after the first Gulf War invasion, but then the US supported Turkey, uh, which was carrying out a violent war of annihilation against the Kurdish population throughout the 90s under Bill Clinton, right? Like, and NATO was again weaponizing this slaughter of the Kurdish people with our tax dollars. So
[35:30] um to weaken Assad it the US was and to gain maintain again the chaos within Syria so that the US could come in and and and do what it does with investments and and military incursions and Israel which is obviously militarily involved in Syria. um the US supported um in a very limited way um Kurdish autonomy, but now that the objective of removing Assad is is is achieved and now that we
[36:00] we we have this this subservient government in power in Syria that is also linked, you know, that has that as you mentioned the background of of connections with al al-Qaeda and ISIS. Um I don't have any faith that the US government will look after the well-being or the autonomy of the Kurdish people in Syria more than we we already see the regime carried out a slaughter of alawite you know Christians and peep came out of the you know
[36:31] there's no that was over a thousand plus people killed and did the Trump administration once mention about Christian genocide in Syria absolutely not >> yeah between the the Eloise the Eloise are well actually Bashar al-Assad was an Alawite Muslim and um uh the uh the Christian community, I mean there are some estimates that put the Christian community uh in Syria at um at more than 5%. I I've been to Syria. I went to a to an operating practicing Jewish synagogue
[37:03] in Damascus. There's still a Jewish community in Damascus, >> but uh I if I were a betting man, I would not bet money on the safety of Christians or Jews or Alawites or any other religious minority in Syria. Not under this government or any other government. For for all of his faults, and Bashar al-Assad was a monster. >> He was a monster. But for all of his faults, he at least protected religious minorities. And that's that's all out the window now. So, Seth,
[37:35] my last question for you is, well, it's my next to the last question. What do you what do you lose sleep over these days? It seems like there's so much going on around the world. Very little of it is good. What is what bothers you the very most? >> I think that what what really appreciate your questions. Um, I think what bothers me the most is knowing that that the source,
[38:06] you know, of course there's many different levels in conflicting interests in the world that are involved in in in in the abuses and that we've been discussing this morning, but there's a fundamental source coming out of the US for for so much of the world's strife. Like what Dr. Martin Luther King said in ' 67, still holds during the Riverside Church speech where he finally he came out against the Vietnam War, right? And he said, "The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today is my own government." That is as true, if not more true today in the year 2025
[38:38] as it was in ' 67. And so to see the continuity, I'm 55, so um to see the continuity when I was born, you know, and my parents were involved in the antivietnam war activism, they were involved in civil rights movement, but to see the continuity from the US genocide in Vietnam to then when I was a young adult, the first invasion of Iraq, then the second invasion of Iraq, and so it's like this war machine is out of control, and it's over half our discretionary tax budget.
[39:09] And the the it's not just Trump, but it's this bipartisan consensus that the US is above the international law. The US refuses to sign under the Rome Statute to be a member of the International Criminal Court. And now the Trump administration's even issued an executive order threatening people that cooperate with the International Criminal Court. So what I lose sleep over what makes me what makes me want to grind my teeth metaphorically speaking is this impunity and knowing that uh the source of so much of it is right here um
[39:40] within the US. So but but on the flip side it confers a responsibility and a sense of hope that if we get better organized the way we see um other peoples throughout the world organizing that we can we can have more of an impact than we might realize. But we have to be strategic in how we organize. We have to be we can't just, you know, tilt at windmills and feel like, you know, well, I stood on a a corner again with a sign. I mean, that's great. I'm up for street protest, but but we have to have a plan. We have to have strategy. We have to actually have to
[40:10] move this thing forward and envision a world without the US empire. >> Yeah. And uh and where can people learn more about about you and taxpayers against genocide and the work that you're doing? Um well, our website's really easy to remember. It's just taxpayers against genocide.org. And um again, taxpayers against genocide.org. And then folks can email us. I I monitor the emails and so do other comrades, but certainly would
[40:42] would love to hear from from anybody who's found this uh wants to get involved. Um we are still on our website. Uh folks will see the this the complaint that was filed with the Interamerican Commission on Human Rights again with the lead attorney Huedo Roth and other amazing attorneys with the National Lawyers Guild who authored that on our behalf and on behalf of Palestinian Americans petitioning against the US government for the murder of their loved ones. Um so that
[41:12] complaint is on the website. There's ways how to get involved. We encourage everybody to join. We're trying to and we're trying to organize in regions. So we have there's there's a tag group that's organizing in Texas. There's a tag group organizing in New York. There's there's folks in Ohio. There's of course out here in California. So, wherever you are, you know, again, that's the power of we need a mass movement of taxpayers to say no. And um not everybody can can practice tax resistance where you just don't pay because some people obviously if they
[41:44] might have kids or they have they can't afford to, you know, nobody wants to go to jail or prison, but not everybody. they just have people they depend upon. You know that they can't do that. But everybody can can come together as a class of taxpayers and organize for the accountability and the prosecution of US officials. There you go. Seth Donnelly, thanks so much for joining us. Seth is the co-founder of Taxpayers Against Genocide. And ladies and gentlemen, as a personal favor to me, I know I ask this
[42:15] every time, but I'm going to ask it again. Could you please uh like, subscribe, share, tell your friends about uh about the show? It's because of people like you that uh we can bump that algorithm and get out there and uh and spread the word. So, thanks for that. And Seth, thanks for being with us. >> Thank you, John. Appreciate you. >> All the best.