[00:00] [Music] Good morning. You're watching the program with Ted Rall and John Kiriakou. It's Thursday, November 20th, 2025. Thank you for joining us and good morning, John. Good morning, Ted. How you doing? I'm doing good. Little cold where I am, but that's what it's supposed to be in mid mid to late November. Um so,
[00:31] uh yeah, you know, I always look for CIA-related news for us for obvious reasons and uh today there was uh more than usual. There was more than usual yesterday. I don't know. There's something in the air. Um so, uh lots going on. Uh I know you may have a few mild opinions about Ambassador Mike Huckabee's meeting with the uh I can't believe it. proud American patriot Jonathan Pollard. Um that's a crazy story. Huckabee should be fired
[01:03] right now. Right now. >> we will talk about that, obviously. Um you know, uh whenever I see CIA cover-up in JFK assassination, I always think conspiracy [ __ ] >> Yeah. Today though, this is a mainstream story. This is in Politico. It's in Axios. Uh former CIA historian is uh stepping forward as a whistleblower. It's really interesting. Um so, uh about what you know, basically, there's still still stuff coming out from this thing that happened, you know, basically, a
[01:34] couple of months after I was born. And I was born in 1963. Um so, we'll get into that. Uh Donald Trump is meeting with his new bestie, Zoran Mamdani. Yeah, I know. It's crazy. at the Oval Office. And you know, whatever else y'all want to talk about uh in the Rumble and YouTube live chats. If you're watching live, you can go ahead and type that in and uh we uh producer Robbie West will put uh post it up to us and uh we will answer your
[02:06] questions as much as we can. We are here Monday through Friday, 9:00 a.m. Eastern time. Uh and so, uh please like, follow, and share the show. We really need and uh and really appro and really appreciate your generous support uh in all respects for the show, including but not exclusively financially. Um and so, John, what would you like to I have a feeling you might like to talk about Ambassador uh Huckabee. I feel like exploding about Huckabee. So, it turns out that last
[02:37] July, Ambassador to Israel, um former governor of Arkansas, Mike Huckabee, and the deputy chief of mission, um met with convicted spy Jonathan Pollard. Now, Jonathan Pollard was convicted uh in the 1980s. 1985, I believe it was. Convicted of spying for Israel and sentenced to life in prison. 30 years. Um it was the minimum that he had to do.
[03:08] He served the 30 years. And I should add, all the years that I was at the CIA, every single time an Israeli prime minister would come to meet with the president, they would ask us to bomb Iran and to release Pollard. And every single time, whoever happened to be president said no. Pollard was finally released, what, 10 years ago now? That's right. He was immediately granted Israeli citizenship,
[03:41] flown back to Israel on an Israeli military plane, greeted as a hero. Greeted as a hero by Benjamin Netanyahu at the airport, and instantly bestowed with Israeli citizenship. Now, he has the balls, the unmitigated gall, to run for the Knesset in the next election as an independent, but associated with the extreme right wing of Israeli politics. >> to annex the occupied territories
[04:13] completely. >> Correct. Now, we already know, all of us know, that Mike Huckabee is so far to the right that he's actually fallen off the edge. He's an evangelical lunatic. He has no business being in any governmental position, but he was an an early endorser of Donald Trump. And because he's an evangelical and wants all the Jews to return to Israel so that Jesus can come back and the rapture can happen, which never appears anywhere in
[04:44] the Bible, by the way. True. Um And doesn't seem like a good deal for the Jews, by the way. Yeah, it doesn't No, cuz it's the end of the world. Exactly. Yeah. They're just They're just the linchpin. It's like they're They're the red shirts in this Star Trek episode. This clown has got to go. Uh he won't say and I should add, they kept the Pollard meeting off the embassy's calendar. So, only now are people finding out about it and only because somebody called The New York
[05:16] Times and told them. And then The New York Times was able to confirm it with two other people inside the embassy. They interviewed Pollard and he said, "Yeah, I met with Huckabee. I'm not going to tell you what we talked about." Huckabee has to resign. Today. So, uh so, is it I I want to be really clear here. So, um he should resign because of the breach of protocol. He should resign because of the kowtowing to a traitor. He should
[05:46] like all of the above, more? >> Yes. I I I Yes to all of those. Yes. Yes. And another thing, too. The Post and The Times are reporting today, and I think this is quite important, that the White House had no idea that this meeting took place. And that they're apoplectic that it took place. When Listen, I I've worked in embassies for half my adult life. When an ambassador is meeting with somebody who is controversial, Mhm.
[06:18] they have to They have to cable the Secretary of State to ask permission. Huckabee did not. He did not do that. What was Huckabee thinking? Why did Why did he Why did he think I mean, Donald Trump does not strike anyone as the kind of person that you do this to. Yeah. You know, uh I mean, you wouldn't like it if you were president. I wouldn't like it either. Is he going to survive this? You know what? I think he will survive
[06:49] it only cuz Donald Trump seems to like the guy. But at no other ambassador under any other president has >> looking weak, too, right? So, if he it'll it'll be kind of a tacit admission if he fires Huckabee that like Huckabee pulled the wool over his eyes. Unless Unless Trump calls him and says, "Mike, you got to resign." Mhm. This is unacceptable. And again, the both The Post and The Times report that Huckabee I'm sorry. They report that Pollard called Trump a madman who
[07:23] has literally sold us down the drain for Saudi gold. You know, takes one mad madman to know one. I mean, Jonathan Pollard, I mean, I remember that very, very vividly. I mean, you know, anyone who's old enough, let's say, over 50, remembers that very well. And I mean, he he really I mean, he probably made the strongest case against dual citizenship of any human being I've ever met. >> And and just so people remember, I'm
[07:54] going to turn this light off real quick. Just so people remember what it was that Pollard did. Pollard sold top secret military cables and NSA intercepts to the Israelis. Sold it. Right? For money. The Israelis then traded that top secret information to the Soviet Union in exchange for Soviet Jews being allowed to settle in Israel.
[08:25] Pollard did it for the money. He was a traitor for money. This was not um you know, like >> Absolutely not. Um Okay. I mean, look, I I think it's disgusting, too. Um I hope the president does the right thing. Oh my god, I hope so. To say the least. Um okay. Um we have some questions. Let's get to them. F U So, thanks for the dollar. Um what do you make of the military Egyptian planes
[08:57] following Erica Kirk, as reported by Candace? Um you know, I I checked that out. I don't I don't think it ever happened. Candace is literally the only person on Earth who's reporting this. Mhm. It's picked up by The Times of India and The Hindustan Times. And it's got a life of its own around, you know, social media. But I just don't think this is ever this ever happened. Uh yeah, I I that was my take as well. Uh wouldn't be the first time that her {quote} {unquote} reporting is uh less than than watertight.
[09:28] >> Um Three Birds One Stone on Rumble asks, "Maybe we should start the show, although a little late with that for that, with how the Israelis killed more than 100 Palestinians last night and improvised explosives exploded 124 buildings in Gaza in a single day. What a ceasefire they're keeping?" Yeah. You know, this is just scandalous. >> glad that you brought that up. I mean, it's absolutely disgusting. I mean, here's the thing, right? Like you pointed this out months ago that the Israelis have a long-standing practice of blowing up every ceasefire that they
[09:59] ever agreed to. They got kicked They got dragged into this one kicking and screaming by President Trump. Yes. >> Um and and obviously they're trying to screw it up every way that they possibly can. Trump is kind of in a really difficult position, right? Because if he if he calls up Netanyahu and yells at him about this, then you know, he risks Bibi saying, "Okay, fine. [ __ ] you. Back to war." Um and and and then which is exactly what what Netanyahu wants um for a variety of reasons that
[10:31] we've discussed here a billion times. >> Yeah. >> Um uh the but if he doesn't do it, he comes off as a puss, which is not good, either. That's right. >> know I don't know what I would do in this situation. Um I think I think I would be starting to look at threatening them with cutting off aid. I mean, that's always been fair. >> That's That's what George H.W. Bush did. And you have to be serious about it. If you want to get their attention, right? >> That's it. And he didn't even cut off aid. Uh George H.W. Bush um
[11:05] temporarily suspended loan guarantees for new Israeli settlements in the West Bank. Mhm. Yeah, that's Yeah, that doesn't seem like such a big deal. Well, okay. F U So, thanks for the extra dollar. Um has the CIA ever assassinated their own agents or officers like they're some kind of cartel or prison gang? Uh not that's ever been reported. Um
[11:35] I I don't know. You know, pre-1975 was the bad old days. It I I I honestly can't say no, but I don't know of any such incidents. Yeah, I don't remember reading any allegations to that effect. It It seems wouldn't you say that seems a little bit I think it's unlikely. Yeah, I I would call it unlikely. Yeah. John, this is from Ali Y3T. John, you mentioned on Julian Dorry, your first boss who wrote books on history of
[12:06] political relations of countries, but I couldn't find his name. Maybe I missed it. Could you let us know his name? Yep, that was uh Bruce Riedel. Bruce was one of the one of the best bosses I ever had. And um and in his retirement, he's been absolutely prolific uh in um in uh his his uh book production. It's incredible. Another dollar from F U So. F U So is the keeps bringing bringing the dropping the George Washingtons. Uh if you were
[12:37] to or Sacagaweas, depending. Uh if you were to be a corrupt spy, would you rather be recruited by a hot Chinese spy or a hot Russian spy? Oh, jeez. Oh, man. What a totally loaded question. I'd have to say Russian for me. Yeah, I'd have to go with the Russian. Just cuz, you know, Isn't Pollard also ethnically Jewish? For sure. 100%. Yeah. Yeah, no no doubt about >> He even He I'll tell you what, I I served in prison with a with a mob guy
[13:09] named um well, I won't say it was I don't want to I don't want to embarrass him. But anyway, good guy from the uh from Philadelphia. And he was at the penitentiary in Butner with uh with Pollard and he said Pollard was such a little mouse. He said everybody just wanted to beat the daylights out of him. So, they kept him for the most part in the medical unit just for his own protection. Now he looks like Dave Letterman with a
[13:39] post beard like like a like a [ __ ] wild man living like Kilroy. >> Yeah, he looks like a crazy person. He didn't used to look like that at all. Uh you know, he used to look like Williamsburg man. Um Okay, Nicholas Franco asks, "Why do we think the majority of Jews coming from the Soviet Union are so right wing?" I don't know if that's necessarily true, but I mean, you know, look, the thing is my take is always that refugees tend to be the you know, they they tend to leave their home country cuz they're opposed
[14:10] to the ideology of their home country, which is like the anti-Castro Cubans and so on. So, you know, the Soviet Union was a socialist country. So, you know, if you didn't love socialism, you know, you're you left, right? I mean, that's >> What do you think? Yeah, I think that's right. Although, it is my understanding that Ukrainian Jews who have left Ukraine to move to Israel are exceedingly right wing. Um I've I've even spoken to Israeli journalists who have told me that there are so many right wing Ukrainian
[14:43] Jews that have moved there just over the last 20 or 25 years that it's pushed the entire electorate to the right. Crazy. >> super interesting. I mean, that is a country that has a lot of you know, immigration in and that country and and their demographics change really radically in a relatively short amount of time as a result. I mean, we don't have that level of immigration in this country. Our our demographics we we shift slowly. Yeah, we do. We shift slowly. And a
[15:13] country of only 9 million people can shift very quickly when you have these huge influxes. Yeah, 100,000 is a lot of people for in a country of 9 million people. That's right. Um A quadruple J XYZ, do you think Do we think the un- unveiled corruption in Ukraine unveiled my ass. It's like it's always been in open uh in plain sight. Will influence the Western support in any ways? It's a great question, though. Um Yeah, we're talking about, of course, the recent scandal sir of the people
[15:45] surrounding Zelensky Yeah. uh in this um you know, energy bribery uh kind of thing, which kind of has echoes of the Hunter Biden Burisma [ __ ] Um I you know, I don't What What do you think, John? I I I don't think that the US is going to back away from Ukraine. No. >> you know, corruption goes with the territory over there. It does. And and it's like it's it's not unusual. And it's Remind Doesn't it remind you a little bit of Hamid Karzai where it's like basically like everyone around you
[16:17] is corrupt as [ __ ] but no one can prove that you personally took money. This isn't like Eric Adams who is personally corrupt and was tried credible charges filed against him. >> I mean, nobody really I mean, Zelensky suddenly is rich and has this place in you know, on Lake Como, but Jeez. Maybe he was just a he has a lot of good a lot of good residuals from his acting career or I mean, we can't prove it, right? But like Hamid Karzai, you certainly could never prove that he personally was
[16:49] lining his pockets. This is kind of like President Harding or something like that. I I I think that's a good way to to say it. And and President Harding is probably the right the right comparison to make. Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that. But you know what's painful, too, Ted, is that nobody seems to really care No. when leaders are corrupt now. Well, nobody cares about their whether we're talking about domestic or foreign affairs,
[17:20] nobody cares when their own side is called out. I mean, basically there's never thing where it's like, "Oh, I supported this candidate or this party, but now I've learned new information that that they're a turd, so therefore I no longer support them anymore." That doesn't Yeah. anymore. You're just like Now you just make excuses or you just brush it off or you do whataboutism or you know, but you don't change your mind. You don't back away. Like literally nothing can make you do that. Like you could If your person If your
[17:51] guy, your candidate, turns out to be a pedophile, you're like, "Whatever, you know, the other side's worse." No matter what it is. That's right. >> like that's a change. I don't think that was true. I think about, you know, when I was a little kid, you were a little kid during Watergate. Nixon won by a landslide in 1972, but in 1974 you couldn't find anyone who admitted that they voted for him. >> what? George George McGovern told me something one time that was so funny. He said that that
[18:21] in 1972, he got 39% of the national vote. He only got South Dakota and the District of Columbia. No, he lost South Dakota. He got Massachusetts. Okay, my apologies. >> And then in 1974, 2 years later, 65% of Americans told pollsters that they VOTED FOR MCGOVERN. [Laughter] THAT IS THAT IS THAT IS THE total you know, victory has a thousand fathers and
[18:53] defeat is an orphan. It really is true. It is true. Um >> Yes, it is. Rebellious Rainbow Unicorn, is the CIA more out of control now compared to pre-1995, John? Pre-1995, absolutely yes. No no question. Pre-1975, I think that um that it's comparable. Pre-1975, the CIA was just going around the world doing anything it pleased. They were killing world leaders. They were overthrowing governments. Half the time they weren't even bothering to inform
[19:24] the president what they were doing. Doping Doping kids with LSD. >> Doping kids Doping their own employees with LSD. Yeah. And um they they had seriously cleaned up their act by 1995. I talk often about the the so-called cull that Bill Clinton initiated in 1993 where he ordered the CIA to fire every recruited source who had a human rights problem in his past and fully 1/3 of the
[19:54] CIA sources were were fired. Um those days are gone and they're never coming back. So, can you explain like why do you think why do you think the CIA In other words, how did the CIA get so out of Like what causes it what caused it to happen it before '75? I know the Church Committee came in afterwards and there were all the scandals because of Philip Agee and all that. But like when the CIA is more under control
[20:24] what's the difference between that and a and a time like now when they're out of control? Like what's the you know, is it leadership? Like what is it? Um it is the nature of the CIA. It's the the the collective mindset of the CIA to push the envelope as far as you can push until somebody in the White House pushes back or somebody on Capitol Hill pushes back. It's they they >> culture. It's the culture. They they called it um um kingdom building.
[20:56] Kingdom building is what they called it when I was there. Everybody in a position of authority at the CIA wants to build his or her own kingdom. And so you just keep pushing the the boundaries of legality until somebody pushes back. And the next thing you know, they're doing anything they damn well please. There's almost zero congressional oversight and at the White House there they just threw up their hands and say, "Well, what can we do? There's nothing we can do." And these days so so it's the lack of interest in reining them in coming from
[21:27] the White House you would say? I would. And and I would say the inability to rein them in on the part of the congressional oversight committees. Why are they unable to? Because there are about 40 employees of the Senate Intelligence Committee and about 60 employees of the House Intelligence Committee and 40,000 employees at the CIA. That's a good answer. You just can't you can't handle it. Um okay, Peru is a JFK
[22:00] related question. Have you from Peru Have you met or worked with David Talbot? Uh And and what do you think about his work? My impression is that he's not in good health nowadays. I'm sorry to hear that about him. >> Poor David. >> Yeah, he had David wrote the the forward for my third book. He's a he's a lovely guy and one of the most highly respected contemporary historians that's out there. He had a debilitating serious stroke, his second stroke, a few months ago and the last I heard was unable to
[22:31] to care for himself, unable to speak and certainly unable to write. The poor guy. He was the editor of Salon. Yeah, he was. And I So my only interaction was trying to get him to run my cartoons. He ran the cartoons of four of my colleagues who were very similar to the kind of work that I did. So I thought I kind of belonged naturally in that orbit. It's the kind of and yet and you know, he he was nice but he obviously it's one of those things where he he obviously didn't like my work and just didn't want
[23:02] to say so. And and he never ran it ever. And you know, it was it was always a source of frustration to me but you know, he's allowed to not like my work. You know, that was my interaction with him. He was always polite he was always polite albeit a little weaselly about it. Um editors. US XXX A-Rod 21, thanks for the $2. Have you seen the the story about the FSB attacking Polish train tracks with C4 explosives? Was Poland right to worry
[23:34] about Putin and his ambitions or is this mind games Putin is playing? Is there a real issue in other words, is there a real danger of Russia invading Poland here? Yeah, um yes, the Poles have reason to be to be worried. Really? Yeah, I do I I do believe that. Listen, the Russians the Russians are just like every other country, just like every other superpower or regional superpower. They're going to they're going to carry out um
[24:04] operations against the countries that they believe are threats to them. And sometimes those operations are large scale and sometimes they're small scale but sabotage is just a normal a normal thing. I mean, it's almost I mean, it's not really I mean, it's almost an act of war, right? I mean Oh, yeah. Oh, sure. And a NATO country, yeah. Absolutely right. But listen, even if they got caught, nobody's going to go to war over some train tracks. I got it but I do I think
[24:35] I just I just I mean, I don't think that Russia has would invade Poland. No, no, I don't think absolutely not because to invade Poland is to invade NATO. And then it's going to require a massive response. Yeah. Yeah. Um Dustin for nothing says, "John, I saw a job posting yesterday now removed for a director of identity intelligence at Health and Human Services." Oh, sorry, HHS. Yeah, Health and Human Services. Can you shed some light on what that could mean? A director of identity intelligence. The word identity throws
[25:06] me. I I honestly don't know what that could mean. It's it's not unusual for almost every federal department to have an intelligence office. Uh for example, there's a there's a CIA representative from the analytic side, from the Directorate of Intelligence at Treasury, at Commerce, at Energy. They're all over the place. Um just because there is intelligence that comes in every day that needs to be shared with the leaderships of those departments,
[25:36] right? Maybe you pick up something about threats to air travel or about some germ that's been developed somewhere or you stole the Japanese, you know, trade negotiation talking points and you need to share them or whatever. Uh but identity intelligence it it doesn't have a meaning for me. I'm not sure what that is. I mean, all I can think of is HHS has clients. Maybe they want to know if they're US US citizens or they they want
[26:08] to know who they are. >> would that would normally fall It's possible but that would normally fall under the office of security. Mm. Yeah. All right. So yeah, I have no I have no clue here. Um Oh, Rebellious Rainbow. Rebellious And rece I remember I remembered just to say Rebellious instead of the whole Rebellious Rainbow Unicorn. Rebellious says identity access is cybersecurity. That would make sense. Mm. Thank you for that. Uh Nicholas Francos, do you see do we
[26:40] see Trump getting the rare earth metals from Ukraine as per that deal? It seems to me that Putin is getting all of them. Well, Putin has occupies the territory where they are and that territory is never going back to Ukraine, ever. No, sir. So >> By the way, thank you so much Tracy 2020, long time listener and viewer is now a monthly supporter of G Program. >> Oh, thank you. Much appreciated. F U So, here's a buck. John, this is
[27:11] your question. What would it take to actually reform or dismantle the CIA? Can I get away with saying stay tuned to this channel? >> Yes. Yes, you you you can I and I know why. Yes. >> I'm I'm hoping to have kind of a big announcement in the next 2 weeks. Yeah, that'll be cool. Maybe two maybe two announcements, maybe. >> May maybe two announcements. All right. Kahunk Kapunk T589, do we think that Israel has crossed the point of no
[27:42] return in regards to how the world sees Israelis or does it take time and people will forget that Israel committed genocide? I think 100% there's no going back. I mean, I think it's so radical at this point. You know, they've fallen off the cliff in international opinion polling and domestic opinion polling and most importantly with young people which means that these are opinions that are baked into the generations that are going to be moving forward over the next few decades. Um I don't see even if Israel were to if
[28:15] were to say, "We were wrong. We apologize. We want to help create a Palestinian state." I mean, none of these things are going to happen but even if they did that, I think it's it's not going to be forgiven. I think it went on for so long. It was so extreme and now it's being so reported. It's baked in. I don't see that being I think it's I think Israel's kind of dead to a significant percentage of the population. What do you think? With the exception of Arab
[28:46] countries who do as they're told and don't give a [ __ ] about the Palestinians. Yeah, the Israelis are not going to expand their their list of you know, global countries that that they can rely on for support. I I personally believe the Israelis are beyond the point of no return. I really do. >> There and I don't think I mean, and just to be clear, the Arab countries you're talking about John, I don't want to put words in your mouth ever but we're
[29:16] talking about the governments of those countries, not the citizens of those. >> That's right. That is exactly right. Glad you said that. Okay, so let's talk about while we're while we're talking all things CIA, let's talk about the JFK assassination which took place 62 years ago this coming Saturday, November 22nd. Former CIA historian Tom Percy says that he basically was doing research in a CIA safe room back in 2009
[29:48] while looking researching Latin American policy in the CIA and he came across a 50-page IG Inspector General's report from 1978 in which this was a period during under the Carter administration during the Church Committee when the CIA was really on the hot seat for the abuses in Latin America and they basically were laughing about the memos laughing and bragging about fooling Congress about what Lee Harvey Oswald was up to in Mexico City
[30:18] before he killed JFK. Um the the detail it shows basically it's this is kind of considered a blueprint for how you can lie to Congress as a government agency and and basically they were sanitized in other words expunged duplicates of files sent to the House Select Committee chief counsel. They got rid of all the key evidence And they insulted him. They they insulted him by calling him
[30:48] incurious. Well, it sounds like they weren't wrong. It sounds like he didn't he he sort of did a give everything a quick over you know 20-30 minute glance and then back to Scotch on the rocks, right? Um and you know and that's probably true but although it is it's always kind of funny to me when someone engages in pernicious activity like this and then laughs at their victims for being stupid. Um yes. Which I guess is what happened here. Um John, can you talk a little bit about
[31:20] this? I mean you know first of all this sounds credible to me. Um what was Lee Harvey Oswald up to in Mexico City before the November 22nd? He he was there to meet at the Soviet Embassy which turned him away and at the Chinese Embassy which also turned him away. Uh we only learned recently that that the CIA was surveilling him in Mexico
[31:50] City in this most recent tranche of of documents. Uh but the CIA denied and denied and denied that they had any knowledge of Oswald being in Mexico City. That was a lie and another lie is and we just learned this in the latest tranche. The other lie was that um that the CIA had no contact with Oswald and not only did they have contact with Oswald but James Angleton the deputy director for counterintelligence ordered that the CIA recruit Oswald
[32:24] even if Oswald didn't realize he had been recruited. So you know what would that look like? Oh you can you can do it as a false flag. You can do it pretending to be Russian for example or you can say you're a businessman looking to hire a consultant. Uh you can do you can tell any kind of lie you want just to set the person's mind at ease. Why was the CIA um why did they feel a need to not reveal that? What would be what would have been
[32:56] exposed by them just saying yeah you know we were surveilling him and here's what we knew. Yeah, that's that's just inexplicable Ted. Uh the the CIA would have been so much better off the country would have been so much better off just being honest from the beginning. Just release >> or did they think it would raise additional questions? >> they probably did but but you and I we just said this a couple of days ago, didn't we? That it the cover-up is always worse than the crime.
[33:26] And so yeah. But they just didn't want to it sounds to me like they just didn't want to be well you know basically they didn't want to be second-guessed like didn't you know he was going he was plotting to kill the president? If so, why didn't you you know or did you know and did you let it happen? Did you continue to surveil him when he came to Dallas? Right? I mean Right, exactly. >> didn't they just did they couldn't they didn't want to be bothered it sounds like. >> I think that's exactly what it was and then just gloating that the that the chief investigator was incurious that
[33:58] that leads me to believe that it was an issue of gloating. That's that's and then thanks for the $299 Australian from Tobby J. Unfortunately Tobby, we have already answered a question why is Huckabee met with Jonathan Pollard in Jerusalem. We talked about that earlier in the show but thanks for the thanks for the $299. Just hit rewind. Um Hey um Ted MWNox186
[34:29] has a good practical question. Did I ever recruit anyone without identifying myself as a CIA employee? >> a good question. The answer is yes. Um there was somebody I was working on who I knew had an irrational fear of the CIA. And so I said that I represented a consortium of businessmen and they were interested in this very specific information and they were willing to pay handsomely for it. So I had headquarters draw up what looked like a really official legal contract
[35:03] and I offered the guy the contract. It was a consulting contract. And so he signed it and I gave him five grand a month in cash in hotel rooms and he gave me the the classified information and everybody lived happily ever after. That's a funny that is a funny story. Um F U so thanks for the additional dollar. What do you know John I assume about the story of the Falcon and the Snowman?
[35:33] The Sean Penn movie. I don't know. >> Oh the Falcon and the Snowman oh it was a great movie. It was a great book but this is something that from the day that you're hired at the CIA they they drill into you. So every new CIA employee knows the story of the Falcon and the Snowman. So uh two best friends two high school best friends who gradu- graduated from from high school. One went on to go to college. One went on to be a drug addict and a drug dealer and the one that went
[36:04] to college got a job with a with a CIA contractor. And so he had access of course to classified information. The drug addict friend ended up going down to Mexico to Mexico City and approaching the Soviet Embassy and saying hey I've got a buddy who who works for the CIA and if you give me money I'll get the the information that
[36:36] you want from my friend and then he used that money to buy more drugs. And it was all fine and good until they got caught. And one cooperated or both cooperated. Actually I'm going to Google it now cuz I can't remember if it was one or both that cooperated but they both ended up with long prison sentences. I'm going to look it up right now. Uh while you're hearing that or go ahead go ahead. >> Yeah it was Christopher Boyce who was
[37:09] played by Timothy Hutton. Mhm. Uh his dad got him a job at the CIA and uh So interesting. Yeah his his friend finally admitted hey I've been all that all the questions that I ask you I I've been telling the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City. He suggested that they run off to Costa Rica where he had secretly bought a house. Instead um Boyce um Boyce turned himself in.
[37:39] Yeah. The reason they called him the Falcon and the Snowman is the Timothy Hutton character raised Falcons. Mhm. And um The Snowman was self-explanatory. A co-kid. Yeah. Uh Sean Pat 6882 is the fear of the CIA ever irrational? I would I'd say no. No. Fear of government is never irrational. I love this question. Roddy Bang Bang, what do we think about this new commercial that the Democrats put out telling American soldiers that they don't have to follow unlawful orders.
[38:10] Dangerous if I say so myself he says or she says. You know the Democrats have this obsession that Donald Trump is going to you know try to seize power and refuse to leave the White House at the end of his term. Um and Trump loves trolling them on issues like this. So the Democrats last week >> have some cause to be concerned about that in fairness. Maybe just a little. I think Trump's just enjoying himself watching the the Democrats you know lose
[38:41] their minds over this. So so several more than several half a dozen Democratic leaders last week came out with this nicely produced advertisement urging members of the military to defy illegal orders unlawful orders that you know if Trump says he's not leaving he's going to declare himself dictator or whatever I'm wondering what that all I took that also as as having to do with you know the the the ICE actions on the
[39:11] streets and the National Guard being sent to various American cities like they're in Charlotte. >> would be more immediate. I didn't see it that way. That would be a little bit scarier. I mean so it's it's so like impossible, right? Like like I don't I've never understood how members of the military reconcile this innate contradiction which you and I have talked about before between being told that you have to follow orders unquestioningly from your commanding officer
[39:42] and at the same time you shouldn't and in fact you're legally prohibited from following unlawful orders. Those two directives seem to me like they're going to come into conflict and it's impossible for a service person to to know what to do in a in a melee type situation. Um, you know, I mean, you know what you know what's morally right, but but I mean, what are you supposed really truly I feel like it's an impossible situation.
[40:13] I wouldn't want to be in a situation like this. It's like it's like at the very end of his first term when Trump walked out into that demonstration in front of St. John's um uh church across the street from the White House and asked the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, "Well, why don't you just shoot them?" And he's like, "Seriously, I I have to explain to you why we can't just go out and shoot unarmed civilians in the streets in front of the White House?" Insane. Uh, so I mean,
[40:43] I don't know, is it dangerous? I mean, is it dangerous to say to to have a political party say, "You don't have you know, hey, you don't have to necessarily follow the orders that you get when you're in the armed services?" I mean, it's a I mean, it's a statement of fact. You don't necessarily Right. It could be dangerous. Yes. And I think the Democrats are jumping the gun on this. I really do. I mean, it does seem like probably um you know, I wish that they frankly I wish that they'd had less balls here and
[41:16] more balls in the showdown over the shutdown cuz you know, that one where they didn't want to they were afraid of [ __ ] the airline lobby. That's what this was about. Let me read an ad, John. Looking for smarter ways to browse and enjoy your favorite content without ads, get the Perplexity Pro bundle with Rumble Premium. For just $19.99 a month while you sign up when you sign up before December 31st, normally it's a $29.99 value. With Rumble Premium, you'll get an ad-free viewing experience across all your devices and access to exclusive premium content, no interruptions, just
[42:49] um are going to meet at the White House in the Oval Office tomorrow. >> Ted, I thought you were joking when you sent this to me. I had to look it up. No, it's true. Apparently, this is a tradition for the new mayor of New York City. Um, from what we've heard, Teachout has requested the meeting, Team Teachout. Um, Trump agreed. All right, so I have many questions. All right, so there's the meta question of what does it say I mean, how many times do the American people have to sit
[43:20] through an election where two side the two adversaries repeatedly say, "How you know, the other you know, like John Kyriacou is the devil himself. He's evil. He hangs out with Satan. He's going to destroy America." And then Ted Rall is scum. He's a he a HORRIBLE COMMUNIST. HE'S GOING TO you know, send everyone to gulags. And then it's like at the election's over and it's like, "Ah, maybe John's not so bad. Ted's okay." And then like, "Oh, I love
[43:51] you. Let's work together for the I mean, I know that's like the tradition and I it works it worked historically, but I just feel like in a time of social media and everything, it's hard going forward to take anything that any politician ever says seriously cuz you know that they're likely going to end up in this place, right? Like like the guy I can't pronounce his name the the the Curtis dude. Oh, John Catsimatidis. >> "Oh, I want the best now for for Teachout. I'm of course I'm
[44:21] >> to move to St. Petersburg. Yeah, he's going to move to St. Petersburg cuz he can never live in a socialist city and now he's like, "Ah, Teachout's not so bad." Right. I mean, so like okay, so first of all, is it going to be maybe not maybe not a love-in, but will it be a like-in tomorrow? And or will it be sort of like, you know, Vance Vance versus Zelensky? I mean, what's it what's going to happen? Yeah, I I think it is going to be a like-in. Um,
[51:09] should pull you know, if the speed limit's 55, the cop should pull over the dude going 95 before he pulls over the guy going 58. And like this is again, ISIS not doing that. ISIS going They're not going after like convicted rapists who are illegal immigrants. They're going after sort of anyone and everyone and seems almost like the low-hanging fruit is people dropping their kids off at school and stuff. I mean, it's wrong. Question for both of us. Do we consume media in your other languages like music, movies, TV, etc.? I absolutely
[51:41] do. I watch French TV. >> And I listen to French music 100%. >> Oh, listen. I I even have this app on my phone called called Ertflix. Ert is ERT. Elliniki Radiofonia Tileorasi, Greek radio and television. This this Ertflix has like every channel in Greece. And you can watch movies and concerts and soap operas and sports events.
[52:12] >> I watch it every single day. And then I even have >> for France for for Greece. Yeah. There's a There's a TV station in Patras, Greece's third city on the west coast that has its own app. I watch Patras TV and then and then the Church of Greece has its own app, its own TV station. So, I just watch uh I I stopped going to church, I don't know, a year ago. So, I just watch church on TV on Sunday mornings. I will I will I will want to ask you
[52:42] about the not going to church, but let's let's get try to get through some more questions. Froze Matos, request for you, John. Please recount one of your best Alec Baldwin stories for us when time permits. I haven't heard a single Alec Baldwin story since the Sputnik Assange days and then his film Rust. I have a I have an I have a Alec story, too, but go ahead. Alec Baldwin and I hate each other. And hate each other to the point where we can't be in the same room together.
[53:13] And this is the story >> The story We met once. A friend of mine wanted to write a play about my trial or the the the case leading up to trial. And he wanted to do it off-Broadway and Alec was interested in playing me. And so, we met for lunch one day in New York. >> Amazing. And my friend My friend's an Academy Award-winning writer, screenwriter. So,
[53:51] John, you're kind of frozen here. Look, etc. etc. And shoot. Can you hear me at least? Yes, now now you're good. Yeah. You froze up for about 30 seconds. Okay, thanks. Oh, shoot. So, So, he asked me to tell him these stories. I'm telling these stories. 30 minutes into it, Alec says, "I think you're full of shit." Like that. And I said, "Excuse me?" Wow. >> And he says, "I think you're full of [ __ ] I think you're just making all this [ __ ] up."
[54:23] And I said, "I've been called a lot of things in my life, but liar is not one of them." He goes, "Fuck you." I said, "Fuck you, Baldwin." And I I was so angry. I got up and I walked out of the restaurant. And my friend is like, "Guys, please. No, please. Please." So, I was so mad, I walked all the way back to Penn Station. I got on the train and I came home. So, about 6 months later, I had this idea for a TV series. I had written a pilot. And this I do this as a
[54:54] hobby. I've I've written seven of them in the last 14 years. I've actually sold all seven. One made it to pilot. So, we we made this pitch at at Fox and Fox is like, "We're not really interested. It's It's moderately, you know, interesting, but it's not for us." So, our next pitch meeting was at AMC. And before we went in, my buddy said, "You know, we can guarantee a sale to MSC to AMC if we can attach an A-list star." And I said, "Oh, please don't." I
[55:26] said, "Please." He says, "He is he is an Academy Award-winner. He's an Emmy Award-winner." So, we called him. We went to Soho House. They have breakout rooms there. We called him. And my friend said, "Alec, I'm I'm here with Kyriacou." And and Baldwin says, "What's that [ __ ] want?" And I said, "Yeah, nice to talk to you, too, again, Alec." And then he said, "Well, John's got an idea for a show." And I told him the idea for the show. And he says, "Actually, that is a pretty good idea.
[55:57] Go ahead and attach me." So, we attached him. We sold it to AMC the very next day. And 6 weeks later, I called my attorney and I said, "I haven't heard anything from AMC's business affairs office. I have no idea if my deal's been negotiated." He said, "You know, I forgot all about that. Let me call over there." He calls over to AMC and AMC says, "Oh, we dropped that show." And my attorney says, "Why?" "Cuz Alec Baldwin quit to take a deal with HBO." So, I called him back and I
[56:28] said, "Fuck you, Baldwin. Don't ever call me again." And I hung up. That's the last time we spoke. Yeah, I don't It doesn't It sounds like this relationship, this friendship might be beyond redemption, John. Just saying. Yeah, no. And then And then when he when he got arrested for shooting that assistant director or whatever she was on the on the movie Rust, my buddy called and said, "Hey, you know, it looks like Alec may be going to prison. You might want to give him a ring and just try to" And I said, "Fuck him. I hope he rots in prison." OMG.
[57:00] Thanks for the five bucks, Angela Falalala. Thank you much appreciate. Quick last question. Hype show, will Mondani really imprison BB if he comes to New York or is that just talk? Oh, I think it's I think it's real. I think it's real. And And it should be, honestly. >> Yes. Yes, indeed. >> Everyone, thanks so much for joining us. This is the D program show with me, Ted Rall, and John Kyriacou. We are here Monday through Friday at 9:00 a.m.
[57:31] Eastern time, which means we will be back tomorrow, December 1st, Friday at 9:00 a.m. We will see you then. Please stay tuned for the TMI show with me and Manila Chan coming right up after this. We much appreciate you. And oh, also, DMZ America podcast, Scott Horton and I will be interviewing editorial cartoonist Steve Kelly who's a conservative. That's at 11:00 a.m. Eastern time this morning. Bye, John. See you tomorrow. Bye-bye, everybody. [Music]