[00:00] There was a story that you mentioned in your book where where there was a Middle Eastern intelligence guy that you went to his house. [laughter] >> That story I am so proud of that operation and I wish that it had been my idea. It was not my idea. >> I had a mentor at the CIA. He was an old man. He was a retiree. His name was Gus Avricatus. He became famous and they even made a movie about him, Charlie Wilson's War, in which he's played by Philip Seymour Hoffman.
[00:30] >> So, I told Gust, I said, "Listen, this this enemy country, the CIA won't allow me to say what country it is, but it's kind of obvious. this enemy country. They're getting a new intelligence service uh representative and I want to bump into him, but this is not a guy who's going to be at a diplomatic cocktail party. >> How do I get to him? So Gus gave me this idea. I I was much younger at the time. I was 35 years old. My hair was darker.
[01:03] My my I grew a beard and it was dark. Now I'm all gray. But I put some books in a book bag. I went to his house. I saw his car was on the street. And with my book bag, I broke the side view mirror off of his car. So I picked it up. I went to the next door neighbor just to provide cover for myself. And I said to the woman, "Is this your car?" She said, "No, it's the man next door. He doesn't speak Greek." So I went to his house. I knocked on the door and I saidto,
[01:35] "I'm so sorry, sir, but the lady next door told me that this is your car and I broke the I said, "I'm so clumsy." He says, "Wait, wait a minute. Wait a minute. I don't speak I don't speak Greek." I said, "Oh, you speak English?" "I speak English." I said, "I'm so sorry. I I I was clumsy and I wasn't paying attention to where I was going and and I broke the mirror off your car and the lady next door told me that it was your car and I want to say I'm sorry and I want to pay for it. He's like, "Oh, you're so clumsy. What's wrong with you? You could you couldn't see how
[02:06] close you were." I said, "I I'm so sorry. I was just not paying attention. It's all my fault. I want to pay for it." In the meantime, well, I said to him, I said, "Uh, I said, "Your English, you have an accent. can you tell me where you're from? And he told me from this Middle East country. And I said, I'm from the United States. I said, oh, I wish our countries could be friends again. Maybe someday. And he's just like, and I see his little daughter. She looked to be about four years old. She's
[02:37] playing on the floor of the living room. And I I said to him, "May I have a glass of water?" Knowing that culturally he had to give it to me. >> Yeah. And he says,"Wait right here." So, uh, I walked into the house and I said to his daughter, I got down on my knee and I said, "Uh, uh, shmink." And she tells me her name and I said, "How old are you?" And she says, "She's four." And he comes in, he's holding the water. And he says, "What exactly do you
[03:09] want from me?" >> He knows that, you know. >> Oh, 100%. He's a professional. He's not an idiot. So I said, 'Look, I'm from the CIA in Washington. I know exactly who you are and what you're doing here. You have one chance to be on the side of the good guys. And I took out my business card and I said, "This is my real name. The phone rings on my desk at the American embassy. You have until 10:00 tomorrow morning to call me.
[03:39] You can be on the side of the good guys or you can go down with your leader." and I put it down on it the table and he said to me, "I admire your courage in approaching me. Very inventive." He said, "But I hate that you did it in my own home. You can leave now." So I said, "10 tomorrow morning." And I walked out. The next morning, everybody's gathered around my desk >> waiting for the phone call. >> Waiting everybody.
[04:11] [laughter] And then the phone rings. >> Does it? >> Uhhuh. And he said, "What do you want from me?" And I said, "Meet me in the Hilton Hotel coffee shop in two hours and don't bring a weapon." So we had we our security people were literally at every table. >> Wow. >> Of the Hilton coffee shop. Everybody's armed. I have a bulletproof vest on under my suit. And he comes and I tell him, "Have a seat." And he said, "So,
[04:41] how does this play out?" And I said, "I want access to your code room and I want all your weapons." And he said, "Do you know how hard that is?" And I said, "Yes, I also know how important you are and I know that of anybody in the embassy besides the ambassador, you have the access." And he said, "What do I get in return?" I said, "Well, number one, you get to live. Number two, I can make you rich beyond your wildest dreams.
[05:12] So, what is it? What do you want? And we negotiated a deal. And we made a plan. We took the codes. The weapons were buried in a bunker outside the embassy underground. We went in the middle of the night. Six guys with shovels. We took all the weapons and then he disappeared. Is there a witness protection program in gender? Is that is that a is that a really >> Yes. The last time I heard about him, it was it was several years after I left
[05:43] the uh left the CIA and I ran into a former colleague and I said, "How's Steve?" Steve was what we just called him. We didn't use his Arabic name. We just made up a name. I said, "How's Steve?" He said, "Believe it or not, Steve owns seven restaurants." >> Oh, good for Steve. >> And I said, "Really?" He said, "We set him up with one restaurant. He just had a knack for it and now he has seven restaurants. He's rich. I said, "Good for him." So, he made a life for himself. He said, "Yeah, his kids are in college. Everything's good." I said, "Great. That's what it's all about."
[06:15] >> So, the witness protection thing is is is a real thing. >> Oh, it's a real thing. >> And then he just gets vanishes. And >> you you get American citizenship. >> Your family gets American citizenship. Uh you get the seed money to start whatever it is you want. I mean, you've provided us with a great service. And whatever we negotiated, I'm going to give him a hundred,000. I'm going to give him a million or five million or whatever it's going to be. That's what he used to get started in life. >> But those people and that's where the real talk gets gets in is those people are are informants against their country
[06:47] at the end of the day. They've committed espionage >> or treason some treason. Right. >> Mhm. >> So in that sense, how are they viewed in the CIA? Are those are they're viewed as people? >> Yeah, that's a good question. So, you would think that they would be held at arms length because they they're traitors. >> Yeah. But there is such an overwhelming sense in the CIA that we are the good guys that we consider them to be the
[07:18] good guys