[00:00] Here on the Deep State, we go deep into stories that the mainstream media doesn't want you to know. The Deep State imprisoned me once upon a time. Well, now we're going after the Deep State. I want to bring on Julian Dorey. Julian has been one of the best podcasts out there, and I have to say it was one of my favorite to appear on recently. Julian, I'm proud to call a friend. Julian, welcome to the show. Julian, the last time I was on your show, you did something that never
[00:31] happens to me. You shocked me into silence. I'm never silent on podcast, but we were talking about the Epstein files. You had such a deep understanding of the Epstein files and the craziness that is the Epstein files. I've been thinking about it since I was on the show. We're talking about weeks ago, and I want to come back to it. One of the things that we talked about that has has bothered me very much is in in the last tranche of between three and three and a half million documents. Uh it it it turned
[01:04] high society in America on its ear. There are still another three to three and a half million pages that the president has said, and former Attorney General Pam Bondi, she was the sitting Attorney General when you and I last spoke, said will not be released. Now, this is in direct defiance of the law. The law is clear. The vote was 419 to 1 in the House. It was 100 to 0 in the Senate, and the president signed it. And then he said, "Oh, I'm not going to respect the law. I'm not releasing any more information." So, if you could, give our viewers
[01:36] an idea of why that second tranche was so important, and why you think the third tranche will or will not be released. >> Okay. So, let's start with the second tranche, and then just if I forget, remind me to come back to the third tranche. But there were multiple tranches technically, but if we're talking about the main things where we got big dumps, we had the one in December, and then we had the one on January 30th or 31st, whatever that Friday was. And that was
[02:07] the second one that really flipped the world upside down. The reason that one was so eye-opening and shocking is because it, for the first time, officially showed all these people, these elites of high society, in a way that you and I Maybe you through your old job, but like I could never possibly understand. Discussing some of the most disgusting things openly in a I wouldn't even describe it as just flippant, but in like an understood manner on Gmail. You know, and
[02:38] basically admitting that this idea of like some global elite society pulling the strings in ways that we can't see that go far beyond the ballot box that we vote for on Tuesdays and Novembers actually does exist. Here it is out in the open, and they laugh at the fact that they can do everything without us knowing, cuz that's just the way the world works. So, I think at the highest 30,000-ft view in the air, that's what was shocking. Then you see the actual details. And the thing that really shocked me to my core
[03:09] was the fact that there were people in the past, and I think you had similar sentiments when we talked about this as well. There were people in the past who would make some claims to me that even if I could look at it retroactively and say, you know what, they didn't really present a lot of evidence to me, I have to It doesn't matter. I still have to go back to those people and be like, "Hey, I thought that was complete [ __ ] and I can no longer say for sure that's bullshit." And in some cases, it's like, "No, that might There might be something real there." Like, for sure. You see coded language,
[03:40] and it also went way beyond just the sex trafficking, which if you're someone who's looked at at this case as long as I have, that part was less surprising, but the scope of it and the height of the power of it was on a level that I don't know that I totally foresaw. I knew Epstein was like that. I didn't know he was like like that like that, if that makes sense. >> Yeah. >> And you and I also talked about like Tucker Carlson's idea of like there being this supra government >> Yes. >> where, you know, you have the layer that
[04:10] we thought was the top layer, which is basically like heads of state, think the president, heads of major countries, heads of industry, you know, people like that, and they run Well, yeah, we would have put the bankers that we see in there, the Jamie Dimons of the world, but we thought that was the top level. And what Tucker was saying, and I I agree with him, I think the evidence is there, it's actually the third level. There's two levels above that. The level at the top is like the shadow society of technocrats and bankers who actually run the world, you know, including people
[04:41] you have never heard of, not just people that are, you know, been on the conspiracy theory videos that are looking pretty right, you know, over the past 10, 20 years, but people that literally to this day we don't even know their names from these emails. And people who we do, think the Rothschilds and stuff like that. And then there's a layer in between them and the heads of states and the heads of industry, and that's the fixer class, which is like this billionaire class of sleuthy spy types. The way The way I would describe it is Have you ever seen Breaking Bad? >> Oh, yeah, every episode.
[05:12] >> Okay. Yeah, Jeffrey Epstein's Mike Ehrmantraut. >> Yeah. >> So, Mike Ehrmantraut Mike Ehrmantraut shows up in a He's a billionaire. The Mike Ehrmantraut Mike Ehrmantraut shows up in a Lincoln Town Car looking like he'd rather be anywhere else in the world. And when Walter White talks to him, Walter White thinks he's the dog. But then when he steps out of line, Mike Ehrmantraut slaps him in the face like, you know, a child, and says, "No, no, no, here's what you're going to do." And Mike Ehrmantraut works for the guys that you've never seen before. And the guys you never seen before who runs the
[05:42] world. So, we we got that layering, and I feel real The more I look at these emails, the more I go through them, the more I look at the context, the more I feel really comfortable with that. Now, coming back to the third tranche that we haven't seen, and they're telling us we're never going to see, which, by the way, I would just like to say Todd Blanche while we're at this, too. Um he's worse than Bondi because she's Bondi at least like you know, she's not operating with a full deck. This is not an intelligent woman. I don't know how she got through law school. I don't want to speculate,
[06:13] but like there's the lights are on and there's not a lot home. Todd Blanche is a smart guy. Todd Blanche is a smart guy. He knows exactly what's going on, and I don't know that I've ever seen someone so confidently snarkily gaslighting people on I mean, he's going on Stephen Miller's wife's podcast to gaslight people at this point. Get out of here, pal. You know, and then there was the press conference he saw, maybe it was from last summer like or maybe the winter or something like that, where the reporter's asking about are we going to hear more about you know, the sex
[06:44] trafficking of children? He's like, "Sex trafficking of children?" And then the reporter's like "Yeah, you know, like Jeffrey Epstein." He's like, "Uh-huh. Uh-huh." "Uh-huh." >> Oh. >> Yeah, no, no, there's nothing like that in there. It's so sinister. >> And that would account for Pam Bondi being as being as angry as he was when he resigned. Do you remember just a week before Pam Bondi resigned as the deputy director of the FBI? He was in a press conference with Kash Patel, the director of the FBI, and Pam Bondi, the attorney general, and he had the most furious the
[07:15] angriest look on his face, and he didn't say a word. They did the talking. Next thing you know, he resigns. And then he doesn't want to talk about it. Well, the people who followed him were the same ones who celebrated his appointment as deputy director of the FBI because finally MAGA is going to get in there, and they're going to drain the swamp. And the swamp wasn't drained. The swamp creatures maintained their authority over the swamp. And he realized there's no solution here, at least not one that I can fix as the deputy director of the
[07:46] FBI. >> Right. That's right. >> Painful. >> I wonder man, I'd love to be a fly on the wall back there. >> Yeah, you can say that again. >> I I I I I I was never a fan of Dan Bongino. I mean, I very different politics from him and he was always just kind of an angry screamer to me. But I respected the fact that here was a guy who had a very big show, made a lot of money, and decided to put action behind his words and go in and attempt to do something about it. I
[08:16] wasn't real sure what his qualifications were to run the FBI. He'd been in the Secret Service before, but you know what? The FBI had fallen so far that like as far as I'm concerned, you could have gotten that Iraqi janitor to get in there and try to do it if he was still alive, God bless him. If you know, you know. >> [laughter] >> It's like you know, I appreciated that he was doing that. And then I remember when they first when there was the snafu in like June, July when Elon came out and nuked Trump about the Epstein thing and then the administration was trying to
[08:48] say, "Yeah, all the stuff we said about there being files, there really aren't none. There's nothing to see here." I remember it was around that era Bongino did an interview with Kash Patel for Fox News and he looked like a hostage. I mean, if you've ever seen the meme of the kid leaning forward with like his vein in his forehead, which I always thought Dan Bongino was the was the adult version of that kid. It was on a whole 'nother level. You know, and it looked like it was like blink twice or I'll be shot. So, I remember thinking like, "Damn, I'm really going to want to see what he has
[09:19] to say when he leaves." And then he leaves and he goes full-blown, I mean, he's got the boot so far down his throat he can taste the rubber in his stomach. >> Mhm. >> So, and watching him disparage people, I mean, he's so hated. His own base hates him. And then you see some of these public appearances where he gets where people walk up to him and say, "Yo, go [ __ ] yourself, Dan." And [ __ ] like that. And he looks dead inside. He looks like You
[09:50] hear that phrase that's overused sometimes like like oh, they saw a ghost. He looks like he saw a hundred ghosts. >> It's a It's as though he can't believe this is happening to him because he really believed in his own mind that he was doing the right thing and he was going to clean the place up. And he can't believe this is happening to him. >> Yeah. Yeah, I I I just If I were him, a little PR advice for Dan out there. And he won't do this, but you know, if I if I were a fly on the wall back there and I had seen whatever happened to him
[10:20] and whoever walked in with a black cat and said, "Hey Hey, buddy. Here's the reality we're dealing with here. If you do anything If I were him having left there and I had millions and millions of dollars in the bank like he does, I would have gone away. I wouldn't have gone in front of a camera. I would have gone away. I would have gone to an island somewhere. That's a bad way to put it. >> No no no no pun intended. >> Shouldn't have said it like that. I would have gone somewhere incognito with my family and gotten the [ __ ] out of dodge. And he's tried to walk back in
[10:50] like it's nothing and say, "Oh yeah, no, it's all nothing." And it's just very strange because first of all, another surprise in the second tranche is that my government and intelligence in my government in the United States is more involved than I previously thought. >> Yes. >> The more I look at it, the more I'm like, "Yo, they go back farther than I always thought. They're more involved than I thought. This guy was dealing with a lot of different people including a lot of elements in my own government. It's not this unitary story that I
[11:21] thought it was where it was like it's just Mossad." However, secondly, yeah, he was knee-deep in Mossad. Anyone with half a brain has known that for the last seven eight years. Seven years, whatever it is. You know, so it's just very strange when guys like Bongino go out of their way to shut that part down. And be like, "Yeah, no, no, no, nothing to see there." Like, why is that, Dan? >> what do you what do you attribute that to? Because he has he has gone out of his way to shut that down, and we all know, I mean, like you say, if you have half a brain, you see that he was
[11:53] Mossad, that he had volunteered to the CIA, he had volunteered to the FBI, he had volunteered to MI5 and MI6. He had sought a meeting with Vladimir Putin personally and was turned down. So, he was out there volunteering to anybody who would take a meeting with him. Why? And why are we denying that that took place? >> Well, mm. >> Cuz, like you say, anybody with half a brain can see what was happening here. You know, Alan Dershowitz won't even
[12:24] speak to me anymore because I have said repeatedly in his presence that Epstein was a Mossad access agent. >> And And he's told you that's why he won't speak to you? >> Oh, yeah, he's he he's furious with me. Yes. Furious. But, that's okay. I'll survive somehow. Somehow I'll get past it somehow. Um >> Yeah. >> Yeah, but but what do you attribute all this to? If if Kash Patel, who was supposed to be one of the good guys, whether you agree with his politics or
[12:54] not, and Dan Bongino, who came in as, you know, the guy that's going to fix all this, if they either are silenced or co-opted, one seems to have gone one way, the other seems to have gone the other, then what is what is in these files that has so cowed these people? >> Or what have they done? I don't know. >> Or what have they done? >> skeletons in in their closet. I I don't know how it works back there. Honestly, this is a question that you'd be way better speculating on than me.
[13:26] But >> there I I there's little things that happen in my studio where you know, I talked to all these different people from so many walks of life. And like these little lines, maybe it's just cuz I'm in here, but they'll stand out to me sometimes. And even if they don't hit as hard for people at home just watching it on TV or listening, they stick with me. And I remember back all the way in episode 16. This is 2020, towards the start of my show. I had my friend Alex Horowit on the show who was one of the early employees at
[13:59] Eight Sleep, which is like a major sleep startup that's worth billions. And so he had been in and around the whole VC universe and all that. And one of the things he said at the time was that and and I forget exactly how he said it, so I'll [ __ ] up the phrasing. He said it way better than this, but he's like these people, referring to people at the highest levels of government and their partners in the tech community who work with them, have the ability to simulate society. And what he meant by that was they can simulate an impetus that they put on people, information they share
[14:30] with a population, and simulate what would happen should they share that information. He was telling me this back in 2020, that they had the power to do this. And and the more time went by, the more I was like, I think he's right about that. And so what I sit up and wonder is if all the things that are attached to Epstein or if Epstein's just, you know, the little plug you're pulling from the dam where you see a trickle and then all of a sudden the whole spring like pops up and it's something way beyond him. You know, have they and I'm not defending them in doing this. I'm just speculating if this is
[15:01] what the logic is. Have they simulated this and decided, "Oh my god, if we come out with this, this is a civilizational collapse, existential crisis, and society can't handle it. So we'd rather just deal with the bad PR. A bunch of people are going to lose on a Tuesday in November, but the system will survive, whatever that means." And it comes back to it comes back to the house of cards that we live in. You know, we I I look around all the time and I go, "Man, the the cars down there are driving on the right side of the road and the other ones are driving on their right side of the road and it works." What happens the day where they
[15:32] all decide to drive on the opposite side of the road or one side decides to drive on the opposite side of the road? Everyone dies. It's that simple. Right? So, when we look at laws, when we look at borders, countries, all these things, the the older I get, the more I realize these are just stories that we've told ourselves and at a base level have built into our being in a country like America that we accept. We accept the fact that there are laws and if you break them, you go to jail. >> Yeah. >> So, if that were to all collapse, [ __ ] French Revolution style or something, you have Mad Max: Fury Road.
[16:04] >> Yes. >> And so, what these guys may be thinking is we have we have Yes, exactly. We have enough control of of the narrative that we can take bad PR for a while by basically saying, "Oh, you see the law there? Yeah, it doesn't apply to us." And some of us will lose, some people will be exposed by TMZ and be forced to resign, but these are just cogs on the wheel and as long as the system stays in place, it'll all be worth it 10 years from now. And this isn't about Israel, it's not about China, it's not about the US, it's about the system, whatever that
[16:35] is, if that makes sense. >> Right. See, but then doesn't it just make it look like the system is so corrupt that it can't possibly continue to function or maybe conversely, the system is so the corrupt system is so embedded in American culture that we get to see how corrupt it is with the release of these documents and nobody cares. What we're not seeing What we're not seeing is is people in the streets demanding the heads of the people who have appeared in these files.
[17:05] You and I were talking several weeks ago about Kathryn Remler, who was the White House General Counsel, the top the top attorney in the Obama White House exchanging thousands of emails with Jeffrey Epstein and trying repeatedly to introduce Jeffrey Epstein to CIA Director John Brennan. We don't know why. She won't talk, and it's not like she she faded into obscurity at the end of the Obama administration. She went on to be the general counsel at Goldman
[17:36] Sachs, probably making more money than she could count in a lifetime. And it was only because she was outed by people like you who were actually going through these these Epstein files that she finally was forced to resign. So, why? Why are people not in the streets over this? Why is this not a campaign issue, for example? We've got volatile midterm elections coming up in November, and nobody's talking about this stuff. Why? >> It's an amazing question.
[18:07] And I there was from a one of the solo episodes that we're doing weekly now as well on top of the guest episodes. I had a clip that we later put out where I said, "You know, I watched cities burn cuz one guy died." And I'll see anyone in the streets over all these kids and everything. That's something we all agree we the the poll show we all agree on it. Why is that? And some people answered me angrily and and and I appreciate them a lot because they're they're fed up. And they said cuz no one's paying for it. >> Mhm.
[18:37] >> And I said, "Ah >> And that's true. >> The reason the people were out in the streets so heavily in the past has been because there's funding behind these things and they find the people who are looking to make a few bucks and go out there and yell and say down with the system and all that and then go home and and sit on that and be a part of the same system that, you know, they claim to just be against and everything. But, there is something about the comfort that we've been afforded in society where everything is available to us that the same people who go on
[19:08] and and and, you know what? I'm guilty of this sometimes, too. So, I'm not just calling out a bunch of people here, but like we'll go on and complain about X and then walk outside and passively do Y, and Y is the same [ __ ] as X in different packaging. >> Yeah. >> You know, I can sit here and complain about food dyes and stuff and then drink out of same plastic water bottle for 5 days. >> Right. >> Joke's on me. You know what I mean? I I've done that. Uh so there's something about that slow burn
[19:38] where you don't just get bread and circus, but you get so many things that are automated in your life that that the most simple survival things like food, water, and shelter are so far past what we have to look at, right? Like that's the that's the baseline of humanity. Oh, if I don't go out and kill something today, you know, some animal and eat, we're my family dies. If we don't get to a cave, we're going to get eaten by a lion. We are so evolved past that that all the thousands of other things that we take for granted
[20:10] in between then and there allows us to get to this point that the most we do is yell on a phone or, you know, if you're actually a creator or something trying to do something about it. I'm talking to a camera into a mic. It helps get the message out, but that's one step in what really needs to be about 100, 200 steps to actually get something done. >> Yeah. >> You know, so it sometimes it is hard not to be cynical about it, but I also try to look at it like what are
[20:41] the the the cons here to taking it all down at once. Like you and I both agree we have a similar world view in >> Yeah. >> about the rot in the system. >> Exactly. 100% correct. Yes. >> Right. But here's the way I put it. Let's say you walk up to the biggest mansion on Earth and it's historic. It's 3,000 years old. It's a It's like, you you majestic. It's on a plot of land that's, I don't know, 30 square miles. There are 10,000 rooms in this castle,
[21:13] mansion, whatever you want to call it. And you real- you come upon it and you realize that there's been a massive a massive asbestos and termites breakout in there. >> Okay. >> Not in every room, though. Not in every single room, but in many rooms. And you have two options. You can be like, "Oh my god, we got to get how many people with hazmat suits and go in here and try to go room to room and just burn out one room at a time to be able to salvage the structure. That's going to take Oh, it's going to take 30 years and [ __ ] Oh my
[21:43] god." Or you sit there and you go, "You know what? It really sucks. I love history. This is a great thing, but we still got the land. You know what? Just Just burn it down. We'll rebuild something new." The easy thing is to do the burn down. The harder thing and and I don't want to marry myself to this, but I believe the right thing is to do the room-by-room asbestos. You know, I don't think you can just cancel every single thing in our system at once because, you know, there is a subset of our system that has decided they're going to rape kids and
[22:14] not and not adhere by what people vote for, right? You got to get rid of that. And then you got to get rid of all the things that octopus tentacles that that touches, while still preserving some sanctity of what our guys built into the original Constitution, which we have drifted farther and farther away from, to be very clear. I'm not denying that at all. I study the out of Revolutionary War. I love that stuff. Like this is like a big deal for me that it's 250 this summer and it's got me thinking a lot about like where we're at. And no one's perfect. Those guys were not perfect by
[22:45] any stretch, but they were amazing. And the fact that they were able to foresee and write into some level of code at least, you know, whether it be in the Constitution or the ideas that they later put out in formulating the government and setting precedent is incredible. And for some reason, it just feels like that that not to use the word twice, but that precedent overall that they set is less and less followed by the people who seem to find themselves in powerful positions. And that And that's why a
[23:16] case like yours stood out to me so much, cuz I remember reading about your case like long before I knew you, years ago, when it was there. And it's You're looking at this, and you're like, "Huh. So, this this guy I kind of did the right thing, and he's They're throwing him in jail for it. That's interesting." And I heard I saw some clip of you. I don't know where it was, cuz you're everywhere on the internet these days. But you were talking about You were talk- And it was in your normal voice, too. It wasn't the meme voice. You were talking about how you were this nobody,
[23:47] so to speak, that people hadn't heard of, but that you essentially were going to be the guy that was an example for future cases that could get all the way up to the president himself. You're like, "After me comes Michael Flynn." And then all these other people that they go after with some interesting evidence, you know? It's like even if I could analyze it and say, let's say for some of the people that came after you, there's some evidence there that they [ __ ] something up. Well, they took it from, you know, a two to a 10 on all those people, and that's not right,
[24:18] either. You have to do things The system says you should do things by the letter of the law. And you should do things that are that are on the basis of upholding the standards of the Constitution. And I also think that means when things are done in dark, shadowy rooms that directly violate the Constitution in ways that the American people are not aware of, that's completely unfair to the rights and privileges of being able to be an American citizen, if someone is to speak out about that in a way where it is certainly a matter of last resort, as well, where they've they've tried it in
[24:48] in the chain of command, and it has been shut down, then I think that that person should be protected from prosecution. >> Yeah, I do, too. Thank you very much for being with us today, Julian. We'd love to have you back in the future. Good to see you.