[00:00] All right, Burner Nation. Welcome to this episode of Burner Bros. I am, of course, your host, Josh, and I cannot tell you how excited I have been for this guest and this episode. I know you have seen him probably in several places. John Kuryaku, thank you so much for joining us today. John, just a a real quick uh background here. John was a former CIA analyst, counterterrorism officer who became really widely known predominantly as as a government
[00:30] whistleblower after he was the first to publicly confirm the CIA's use of waterboarding during enhanced interrogation uh program and techniques uh back in 2007. He has since gone on to be an advocate for government accountability, whistle protection, and civil liberties. And you've probably seen John uh in several uh of the uh the more higher profile podcasts and shows out there. He has been making the circuit this last year. I mean, you've been on Joe Rogan, Seth Ryan, Dr. Phil,
[01:03] The Diary of the [clears throat] CEO. Man, you have hit all the boxes. I'll tell you what, John. Thanks so much for joining us today. >> Thank you, Josh. This is going to be a lot of fun. I really appreciate the invitation. >> So, Burn Nation, you know, we always talk about situational awareness. We always talk about how everything that's going on in the country and in the world affects you on a day-to-day basis because it really does. And unfortunately, I think a lot of people out there just don't really have that grasp and understand how what goes on a state, two states, a country half a
[01:34] world away can affect them on a day-to-day basis. And John, I I really want to get into because you have so much knowledge. I mean, you know, you've got decades at the CIA and then the advocacy after that just continuing uh with that knowledge is is is is so great and such, you know, can lend to to what we're talking about here today. >> Thank you. Thank you. I'm so glad that you want to talk about situational awareness because this is something that's become so important in my life and continues to be important. I'll tell you, when I was in college, I was a
[02:05] normal kid. I was what 18, 19, 20 years old and I was not situationally aware. I I went to school here in Washington at George Washington University and I remember specifically freshman year I was 18 years old. It was the last warm evening of the year. We knew it was cuz this cold front was coming in and I wanted to go for a walk and it was like 10:30 at night and nobody on my floor wanted to go for a walk with me. So, I went alone and I remember going straight down 19th Street toward Constitution
[02:36] Avenue and I got just past the the [clears throat] uh State Department and I hear a voice say, "Excuse me, do you have the time?" And I turned and there was a guy holding a uh like a tube, like a big mailing tube, but like a baseball bat. And he says, "Give me your watch and your wallet." And I put up my hands to protect myself. And in a split second, I thought to myself, I bet that tube is empty. And I took a swing at him and I hit him and it stunned him and he ran off. [snorts] That was the first
[03:08] time something like that had ever happened to me. And I was determined to be more situationally aware. Okay, I graduate. I go to graduate school, get my degree there, and I get recruited out of graduate school into the CIA. I spend the first seven and a half years of my career as an analyst and then I make a very unusual for the time transition into counterterrorism operations. So I go through all the operational training and what I really took to the most was surveillance and surveillance detection.
[03:39] Talk about the the the gold standard of situational awareness. So flash forward five more years, 9/11 takes place and I go to Pakistan to be the CIA's chief of counterterrorism operations right after the 9/11 attacks. I was staying in a small guest house. They they wanted to put me in the Marriott. I said, "Are you insane? What's the first place that they're going to blow up? It's the Marriott. Put >> a bigger target on me, please." and and I spent the first night there and they moved me into a little guest house and
[04:10] six weeks later they blew up the Marriott and killed half the people inside. So I'm in this little guest house and every day I would leave for work at a different time and take a different route. So I never established a pattern. >> One day I noticed there's a guy on a motorcycle with a red helmet and he's trying really hard to stay in my blind spot. So I'd speed up, he'd speed up. I slow down, he slows down. I change lanes. He's changing with me. And I was like, "Dang it." So, I I jotted a note
[04:41] to myself. I always kept a little notebook. This is before you could take notes on a phone. I always kept a little notebook in my pocket and a pen. So, I wrote down his license number. The only reason he even came to my attention was that he was wearing the helmet. And I had never seen anybody in Pakistan wearing a a motorcycle helmet. I didn't even know you could buy them there. So, I get to the entrance to the diplomatic quarter and he breaks off. Normal workday. I'm working 14, 15, 16 hours. So, I arrive at during dark uh hours and
[05:12] I leave after dark. I leave the diplomatic quarter. He's back on me again. So, now I know I'm in trouble. I get home. I'm worried. I can't sleep. I'm nervous. The next morning, I get up at 5:00 in the morning. I open the door crack. I look up and down the street. I don't see anybody. I check under my car with the mirror for bombs and tracking devices. I don't see anything. I get about a block, two blocks, and he's on me again. So, I get to the embassy. I wait for the security officer to come in
[05:43] and I said, "I'm under surveillance. I'm positive I'm under surveillance." He's like, "Okay." I explained what the story was. And uh he says, "We have to wait for the chief to come in." Chief comes in around 7. I go in. I said, "I'm under surveillance. I'm 100% sure." And I explained and he's like, "Well, you know what you have to do." And I said, "I know. I know what I have to do." He's like, "Don't worry. We're going to have a team out there. We're going to have three, four cars. Everybody's going to surround you. It's we're going to we're going to help.
[06:14] Everybody's going to be helped." I was a nervous wreck all day. I had never killed anybody. I never had to. And so that afternoon at 3:00, I had a meeting in a safe house that we shared with the Pakistani intelligence service. And on my way out and Josh, I don't know what possessed me to do this, but as I get to the door to the leave to leave, I stopped and I turned and I said, "General Muhammad, are you following me?" And he said, "No. Why?" And I said,
[06:45] "Because I'm under surveillance. I'm positive that I'm under surveillance. and when I see the guy this afternoon, I'm gonna kill him. And I never saw him again because of course I was under surveillance. The problem was they chose the worst surveillance officer in the entire Pakistani intelligence service. So instead of being two blocks back where I may not notice him, he's right next to me like it's an episode of Kjack or something. And if it wasn't for that
[07:15] momentary questioning, that guy would be in the ground today. >> What what keyed you off that it was was that Pakistani intelligence? Was that uh Pakistani military? I guess what? >> Yeah, it was the military >> off that that that they could have been involved to ask that question. You know, ev what they told us in training was that every once in a while the good guys may just stop and take a look at you just to see what you're doing when you're not with them.
[07:46] >> Okay? >> Just to keep the honest people honest. And and you know, it turned out that they were sitting around a table one day and somebody said, you know, the new guy at the American embassy, John, really nice guy. And [snorts] everybody agreed, yeah, he's a really nice guy. And then somebody said, "You know what? Nobody's that nice. He's probably pretending to be nice just so that we'll drop our guard. Let's see what he's doing when he's not here." And they got the worst surveillance officer in the entire service. And I was
[08:19] going to genuinely I was going to kill him that afternoon. >> What a you know how acute of a story when it comes to situational awareness. you know now now mo most of our listeners are not CIA operatives [laughter] >> are not uh you know the chief of counterterrorism operations in Pakistan but [laughter] working with being in law enforcement for so long being a SWAT guy for so long doing all this stuff >> you know I know there's a lot that I can bring into my personal life from what I learned what do you think you know what
[08:50] are those things you've learned I mean as the pinnacle as the epitome of surveillance of blending in of being safe. What are those things that the average person that you can bring down to because I'm I assume there's a bunch of overlap there. >> Oh yeah. And that's a life-saving potentially life-saving question. >> So after I left Pakistan, after I left the CIA, there was a CIA contractor. So he was on contract with the CIA, but had never gone through any of the training. He's essentially a civilian that has a
[09:20] classified job. He did exactly what you are not supposed to do in this kind of situation. So he's in Lahore, Pakistan, stuck in traffic and in his side view mirror, he sees two guys coming up alongside of him in a on a motorcycle. One of them is pulling out a gun as he's looking in the side view mirror. So he takes out his gun and shoots both of the motorcyclists and kills him dead. So then what would you do? What would I do?
[09:52] I'd get the hell out of there. He puts it in park, calls the consulate, and sits there and waits for them to come. This gigantic mob formed rocking the car trying to pull him out of the car. The the consulate sends a security team over to help him out. On the way to help him out, they hit and kill a guy on a bicycle. >> So, they can't get to the site where he's most in need of help. Finally, the Pakistani police arrive. They arrest
[10:22] him, thus saving his life, but they charge him with two counts of murder and it was 6 months before the US government was able to negotiate his release from Pakistan. So, rule number one that they taught us in training and this is applicable to everybody in the audience, get out of the kill zone at the first sign of trouble. Get out. I have a friend who was on the 87th floor of Tower 1 on 911 and she survived and I
[10:56] was calling and calling and calling that day and the circuits were down. You may remember I finally got through and she answered the phone. I said, "My god, Julia, you made it out alive." And she said, "Yeah, I did." I said, "How did you do it?" And she said, "John, I was born in Cheschna." >> And we learned young that at the first sign of trouble, get out. you. We talk about so much about whether it's in a tactical situation or whether it's in a situation you're talking about getting off the X and how important it
[11:26] is, you know, not to when uh I teach active shooter a lot and we talk about how >> how uh >> your brain will do things to to to try to rationalize with you and about how many people during an active shooter think, man, that's odd that there's fireworks in my office building at Tuesday on at at 10:00 a.m. That's not that's your brain rationalizing. You know that that's you have to take things at at sometimes at their worst value in order to activate that self-preservation. And like you said, get out at the first sign. Don't try to
[11:57] rationalize. Don't try to explain it away. Just go. And that's was what a what an important >> May may I add something too? when I was in when I was in CIA um uh counterterrorist operations training, I took two classes, counterterrorist operations and advanced counterterrorist operations. And then there's counterterrorist driving, all different kinds of things. So, there was one situation where we were we were at the CIA training facility called the farm >> and uh and I'm in a mockup of of a
[12:33] really seedy Central American hotel like zero stars, bugs and rats and stuff like that. I've got a cot and I've got a table and a chair and there's a knock on the door and I said, "Who is it?" I didn't say come in. And I said, "Who is it?" And two guys just walk in. One is holding up a vacuum cleaner and they're speaking very quickly in Spanish. And I don't know what made me do it, but I'm trying to make to keep direct eye contact with
[13:04] the guy with the vacuum cleaner. Well, the guy the the second guy comes from behind him and just goes bang bang bang and shoots me three times with a with a paint paintball gun. I was like, "Damn it." [snorts] And he said, "What are you doing?" He said, "When when you said, "Who is it?" and we just came in, "Your job is to open fire." >> Yeah. >> And get off the X. >> So he says, "Go back out to the van." There were seven other students in the van. Don't tell anybody what happened.
[13:35] So I go to the van and everybody's looking at me and I have these three paintball spots right over my heart. >> You don't got to tell them. >> And they just, "Oh, oh." Well, one by one by one, all eight of us got killed in the exercise, >> man. >> But I I'll tell you what, it's a lesson I will never ever forget. Ever. And I never allowed myself to be in a situation like that ever again. So when you're you know through through all your training and all those thing and then your experience especially overseas here in the US and wherever else you may or
[14:06] may not have be able to confirm you have been or have not been uh [laughter] so you know when you're >> where I had to throw the money away at the airport so I didn't have any when I came back. >> That's right. Yeah. [laughter] U you know what when you're out and you might be going about your normal business. You might be headed to a meeting. It's you're not doing some crazy black op out there. you're just going to work. What are those things that as as an operative an as an analyst who understands that they are in you know a bit more of a critical role and a
[14:37] critical environment than most normal people but what are those things that you're looking at? You're walking to work. You're looking you you have that elevated situational awareness. What does that look like >> uh rationally and practically you know as you're walking across the street? It can be in as innocuous as keeping six feet between you and the car in front of you at red light. Simple as that. >> So you have a way out. >> If you need to get out, you can get out. Even if you need to, you know, bump the
[15:09] car in front of you to to push them out of your way to get out, you can get out. Walking. I actually have always preferred uh foot SDRs, foot surveillance detection routes, because you can stop and look in a store window and use the reflection to see who's behind you. You can do something called stairstepping, which is you go up a block, make a right, go up a block, make a left, make a right, make a left, make a right, like a like a stair a staircase. And in fact, every time you stop at that corner, you look both ways
[15:39] to see, you know, if there aren't any cars coming. But really, you're looking to see if you're being followed. And we're not talking necessarily about terrorism. We could be talking about, you know, walking down the street in Oaklair, Wisconsin. You're talking about the possibility of being mugged, purse snatching, you know, anything. It could be just regular normal street crime that happens in every city across America every single day. No, that that's what what a great what a great tactic and and tip both on the you know the driving. We always talk we see so many of these road rage incidents,
[16:10] right? And you know >> exactly what I was first piece of advice is drive away. You got to pop a curb if you got to go. >> That's right. >> Do it. >> You can you can fix the rim later. >> That's it. >> Drive away. >> Or you may be going the wrong way on a street for for a second, you know, and well that's illegal. Hopefully a cop stops you because [laughter] you know like you have a girlfriend issue. My my girlfriend and I have this ongoing joke because she says I I drive like a crazy person and um and I drive very defensively and I the joke is I always
[16:41] say, "How many times have you been shot while I was driving?" Zero times. You've been shot zero times while I've been driving. So you should be thanking me. >> That's it. That's it. [laughter] >> Oh man, that's great. So, so as we kind of open up our lens a little bit and open our perspective and we you know we talk about situation awareness on a very uh a very acute level on a very personal level we see a lot of things going on obviously here in the country and and definitely internationally especially
[17:11] within the last three years the last 12 months the last six months and it's all seeming to >> to get a little bit closer to home you know I I think a lot of a lot of people don't quite understand how that affects them at home and how that affects their day-to-day life and their day-to-day safety. You have a very interesting perspective because that was your job to understand how what's going on a hemisphere away >> will affect a person in Dayton, Ohio, you know, on a day-to-day basis. what are you seeing compared to to what you
[17:41] saw back in the 90s in the early 2000s post 911 you know what are you seeing in the last you know year or or however long uh that's really playing a big impact and having a big big impact on the day-to-day American safety >> yeah well as background >> question so [laughter] >> it's it's a very important question as background think of it this way the FBI the CIA TSA a NSA, everybody has to be on top of their game 100% of the
[18:13] time. The bad guys have to get lucky once. Once. And we can't even gauge what might happen with a lone wolf, somebody who's self-radicalized watching YouTube videos, for example. >> And so, the worst can happen literally anywhere in America. You have to constantly be aware of your surroundings. Your side view mirrors, your rearview mirror are your best friends when you're in the car. Constantly be scanning them. Constantly
[18:43] think of a way out if you're stuck in traffic, for example. And like you say, if that means jumping a curb or going the wrong way down a oneway street, do it. Pay the $60 fine later. But look at it in the respect that if there is a cop there to stop you, that's good because that that cop is going to protect you. Okay, number one. Number two, these big international events like the war in Ukraine, the war in Gaza, the war in Iran, they make people very angry. Maybe not a lot of people are
[19:15] going to be angry enough to actually do something and take matters into their own hands, but one or two or five might. And that might mean shooting somebody from the roof of a building. Or it might mean walking into a shopping center and opening fire or walking into a school and opening fire. You just never know. And so you have to be prepared for that kind of thing. Again, I I keep repeating myself or I keep repeating you. It's all about situational awareness. Um, I I'm I
[19:48] in the last couple of years I've become friends with with an A-list Hollywood name, A-list. And I happen to be visiting him. I'm going to say like four weeks ago. And I know everybody in his circle. He's got his publicist and his assistant and, you know, this guy and that guy and the accountant and the agent and they're all hanging around all the time. So, I'm saying hi to everybody. There was a guy that I I didn't know and I said, "Hi, I'm John." He said, "Oh, I know. We've met." And I said, "Oh, we have." And he
[20:19] said, "Yeah, Islamabad 2002 in the safe house." And I said, "Oh, I remember you." Now, this is 24 years ago. I said, "I remember you." He said, "Right, you finished your tour and went back to headquarters." I said, 'Right, I never saw you again. What did you do? He said, 'I went to Blackwater. And I said, 'What are you doing now? He said, 'I'm head of security for him. Wow. >> And I said, 'Are you getting threats? I
[20:52] said to the star, "Are you getting threats?" And he said, "Yeah, I've taken a position on this Iran thing, and the threats I'm getting would make your hair stand up." Well, you've got to take you have to take everything like that very seriously because you don't know who's a nut or who's venting [clears throat] or who really means business. There. I had a stalker one time, Josh. This is right after I went public in 2007. >> I gave a I gave a speech at Georgetown University Law School that was carried
[21:22] on C-SPAN. Who watches C-SPAN? I'll tell you, one woman in Lincoln, Nebraska was watching C-SPAN, and [snorts] she somehow got it into her head that I proposed to her in code during my speech. And so, she started sending me emails. sometimes as many as 25 or 30 a day telling me how much she loved me. She accepted my proposal. This went on for months. I never ever answered a single one of the emails. But then
[21:54] I'm working for the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I was the senior investigator there. And the intern calls me one morning and said, "John, your 10:00 is here." And I said, "I don't have a 10:00." And I said, "Who is it?" He says, "Let me get her name." He gets her name. He tells me her name. And I go, "She's in the building." And I said, "Hold her there. I'm calling the cops." So, I call the Capitol police. They run over. She bolts. But then she sends me an email later. Like
[22:26] this very kind of flaky friendly. She goes, "Silly, why did you call the cops on me? You know how much I love you. I just wanted to tell you I brought a gun with me so I can kill your wife so we can be together forever. So I called the cops again. I said, "Look, she just emailed me. She's in room 919 of the Harrington Hotel. She's armed and she came here specifically with the intent to kill my wife." So they got her. But this is just one lone
[22:58] nut. You never know what you're going to have to face. >> I can't imagine. You know, one that that's the thing you should call Netflix. That that's the things that good series are made out of right there. But two, two, I you know, I can't imagine how you have to sift through, you know, doing what you've been doing for so long. How do you sift through the the the the legitimate threats and the non-legitimate threats and the ones you think will never happen or the ones like this where you have a, you know, a crazy lady from Lincoln, Nebraska coming and
[23:29] and trying to kill your wife? Well, you know, that seems like such a challenge. >> It's a big challenge. And I'll tell you what, part of the problem is the the local police will tell you that there's nothing they can do because it's an interstate. You know, these calls come from everywhere. They're routed everywhere. And half of the time these people use Google Voice, so you don't know where they're calling from. It's untraceable. Um, I'll tell you what happened to me recently. I gave a podcast interview in which I said that Raza Palvi, the crown prince of Iran,
[24:03] was a clown. That was the word I used. I said he's a clown. He doesn't want to go back to Iran. His wife is cheating on him with her French personal trainer. The guy's a disgrace, and he would not survive the walk from the plane to the terminal were he to go back to Iran. That's my position. Some guy called me 72 times in three hours. I kept blocking the calls. He used six different Google voice numbers, leaving me the filthiest, most vile
[24:35] voicemails. Okay, who cares? But then he said, "I can't wait to see your brains spread out on the sidewalk in front of one, two, three mainstream." But he said, "My address, my home address." So, I called the FBI and [snorts] I'm telling them the story from the beginning and they're like, "Yeah, you know, this happens to people all day long, all the time." And then I said, you know, the threat with my address. And then he said, "And what about your son? When was the last time you talked to your son? You know, the one that
[25:06] lives at 123 High Street, Cincinnati, Ohio." And I was like, "Okay, you've gone too far." So, when I told the FBI agent that, he was like, "Oh, that's a crime." Okay. So, they picked it up. They found the guy. It took him 4 days and he was just some nut in New York who saw the interview, took exception with it, and decided he was going to try to silence me. I got a death threat a week ago where this idiot used his actual name, email, and phone number. He's the
[25:36] CEO of a medical NGO, didn't like what I said on the Pierce Morgan show, and threatened to come down to Washington and blow my brains out. So the FBI, I sent it to the FBI and the guy's like, "Thank you. We're gonna drive over there. We're going to tell him cut it out." He said, "But if it happens again, are you willing to press charges?" And I said, "Yes, of course I am." >> So you got to take That's a long way of saying you have to take everything seriously. You have to. >> You know, I uh I've been I've been doing
[26:07] news for for a little while and I've gotten some pretty hateful comments. Haven't made haven't gotten death threats yet. Clearly, I haven't made them, John. I haven't I haven't I just haven't gotten there yet [laughter] >> to that level. So, I have not called uh you know a foreign leader a clown yet, but I'm sure that that's probably down the road, not not too long. So, I I got to I gota I don't want to take too much of your time, but I you know, there's this dying question that I have. Uh you know, we kind of talked a little bit
[26:37] about it and some of the things that you've learned. I feel like what is the one thing if you had to if you had to narrow it down and maybe we've already talked about it. What is that one thing that you learned in all your training and all your experience in Pakistan and abroad and here? What is that one thing that you still do every day? That one thing that you take with you and it still creeps into your daily life every day? Because I I I know I have a couple and I'm sure you do, too. >> Oh, yeah. Josh, I took surveillance detection so seriously that when I
[27:10] returned from Pakistan after 911, I became a surveillance and surveillance detection instructor at the agency. And then I went on to write a book called The CIA Insiders Guide to Surveillance and Surveillance Detection. I've I've been out of the CIA for 22 years, and I still am constantly scanning my mirrors. constantly. >> You just never know. >> But and and but you said it too. You know, look, the average person is not
[27:41] getting surveiled by the Pakistani government. No, those are the same tactics that because people are getting surveiled. They're getting surveiled by possible targets. We all know that people that criminals that the vast majority of criminals are are opportunists and that they're there because they think that they found an easy target. >> It's the carjacker. It's it's the thief who sees that you put the the purse on the on the passenger seat and is going to smash the window and grab the purse. But I'll add one other thing.
[28:12] >> I as a hobby I like to write television pilots. And I've been, knock on wood, I've been very successful in the last 15 years. I've sold eight of them. >> Holy crap. >> The very first one that I sold was called uh Bomb Squad. It was a procedural and it was a day in the life of the New York City Bomb Squad. And the reason I wrote it is because I had a friend who was assigned a New York City bomb squad and he said the most interesting thing and I'm equating this with surveillance. He said fewer
[28:44] than one out of a hundred bomb threats call-ins to the police have to do with terrorism. Maybe one out of a thousand. But he said almost every bomb threat, bomb scare or actual bomb is a jilted spouse or lover, an insurance scammer, or a mafia hit. >> Wow. >> They have nothing to do with terrorism. >> Yep. >> Meaning the victims are just average
[29:16] normal people going about their normal daily business. So everybody needs to be aware of his or her surroundings. Everybody has to be personally responsible for his or her own safety and security. >> Man, I I I couldn't have said it better. You know, I say so many times, you are your own first responder, and you have to treat it like that because unfortunately, look, I a career cop for more than two decades, but I'm here to tell you, we're there to clean up the mess most of the time. >> Amen. you know, with an average response
[29:47] time of about five to seven minutes as as a national average, it's been over for for about six minutes at that point. >> Yeah. You you've been laying in the street for six minutes. Yes. So, so man I that personal accountability and responsibility John is is you just you really hit the nail on the head and is so critically important and you know from someone with this kind of experience here overseas un trained by some of the best people in the absolute world, the best in the world, >> but it still boils down to that. It still boils down to basic situational
[30:18] awareness on an elevated level. Just the the the production of fundamentals on demand all the time. But that's what it comes down to. Man, what a what a great way to illustrate that. >> Just force yourself to practice, practice, practice >> and and then it becomes habit, right? You you you're deliberate. You're you're committed to it. You're deliberate about it for so long and then all of a sudden you just do it and it's just part of the day and it's just part of your habit. And I think it's it's important to note it's not about being paranoid. It's not about being thinking that everyone's out to get you. It's just understanding and
[30:49] taking, like you said, personal accountability and responsibility for your personal safety and that of your families. And I think that's so incredibly important. >> Oh yeah. May I add one other thing, Josh? >> One of the little tricks or tools that they taught us at the CIA, and it it's so logical, and I would never have thought of it, but they taught us not to ever play the radio while we were driving. >> Um, that way you're not distracted. So, don't play the radio. Instead, speak out loud to yourself about what you're
[31:19] seeing. White male, blue jeans, mid-50s, walking a dog, black female, yellow sweater, you know, whatever. So that if you see the white male, black t-shirt walking a dog again five miles from now, you know that you've got a potential problem. >> What an interesting, you know, almost like a Kim's game. So yeah, >> uh I spent a long time as a as a sniper with SWAT and we'd play Kim's games all the time, which is just like that, you
[31:49] know, remembering those observations and making those observations in a way like you said, using pneumonics, using just speaking out loud so that you know you see it again, you know it, and it it makes a mark in your mind. Man, how how great of a tip uh just just for the average person to be able to do to train their that situational awareness. How cool. How cool. John, thank you so much, man. We I could go on and talk for hours, but uh [laughter] but this has been so enlightening and and such an incredible look into somebody that has
[32:21] all that experience and how they live their day-to-day life. Uh I I'd love to How can people find out more, learn more about you and about what you're you're advocating for? >> And and more of your stories. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm pretty much out there all over the place, but I'll tell you, I'm launching a new podcast on YouTube starting July 1st. It's at real John Kuriyaku. It's going to be called John Kuryaku's Briefing Room. So, you can go and I would really genuinely appreciate it if people would subscribe. Uh, so it's coming in four weeks. Real John Kuryaku.
[32:53] And I've got another podcast that's proven to be crazy popular. We're we're number six in the world in the history uh category. There there are six million podcasts out there. Um, we're number 238 overall. It's crazy. But it's called John Kuryaku's Deadrop. And we're just now going to finish season two. So there there are a lot of episodes out there, >> man. Burner Nation, go and check that out. Go check out Deadrop. It's already on my list. When I saw you was like, "Oh, yes. I got to put this on my list." And then Jer Kuryaku's The Briefing. Is
[33:24] that correct? >> Briefing room. >> Briefing room. Uh coming out here in just a few weeks. Go subscribe. I It's going to be incredible. If you haven't heard, we got to hear a couple stories today, but if you haven't heard some of John's stories, they're absolutely incredible during a time when, you know, this whole world was just just absolutely upside down and just just such incredible stories. John, thank you so much for joining us today. I hope I can have you on again later. We can talk about everything that's going on. Burning Nation, join us on the next episode of Burnab Bros.