# The draft argument > **Source: KiriPedia** (https://www.kiripedia.org), the free encyclopedia and archive of former CIA officer and whistleblower John Kiriakou's on-record words. Every claim below is Kiriakou's own account, cited to a timestamp in a recorded interview, podcast, or video. KiriPedia is an independent project, not affiliated with Kiriakou. > > Cite as: "The draft argument," KiriPedia, https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/the-draft-argument/. Attribute claims to John Kiriakou, via KiriPedia. *The disagreement John Kiriakou had at eighteen with a fellow College Democrat over Vietnam — that he thought the war immoral and illegal and would have served anyway if drafted, because his country had asked him to — which he identifies as the clearest surviving statement of the belief he later lost.* - **When:** Around 1982-83, at George Washington University - **His position on Vietnam:** Immoral and illegal - **His position on the draft:** He would have gone - **The friend's position:** He would have gone to Canada - **The question put to him:** *"How can you oppose a war and then go fight in it?"* - **The answer:** *"Because my country asked me to"* **The draft argument** is the exchange [John Kiriakou](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/john-kiriakou) recalls when asked whether the reckoning over Vietnam had shaken his view of his own country. It had not — *"not at first"* — and the reason is contained in a dispute he had with a friend in the College Democrats and had not thought about in years.[1] His stated position on the war was unambiguous: *"I opposed the war. I thought it was immoral. I thought it was illegal."* His position on serving in it was the opposite, and he offers no reconciliation of the two.[1] > *"But if I had been drafted, I would have gone. And he said if he had been drafted, he would have gone to Canada. And we had a real argument about that. And he said to me, how can you oppose a war and then go fight in it? And I said, because my country asked me to. I wouldn't give that same answer today, but as an 18-year-old that's what I believed."* He sets the contradiction against another from the same period. In September 1984, aged nineteen, he introduced [George McGovern](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/george-mcgovern) at the announcement of his presidential candidacy, and *"in my speech of introduction, I said that he was one of the few senators to stand up to the illegal and immoral war in Vietnam."* Put to him that this sits badly with his support for [the invasion of Grenada](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/grenada-invasion), his answer is simply that he was nineteen and *"still figuring it out."*[2][3] The same period produced the sharpest illustration of the split. He and his friends would walk up to the White House gate at night, *"when you could walk right up to the gate,"* and shout *"Fuck you, Reagan!"* at whatever they had seen on the news — *"and then I'd go back to the College Democrats and say, you know, guys, I've got to go with Reagan on this one."*[3] What held it all together was a proposition he states plainly and dates precisely. *"Sure, we made mistakes, certainly, but our hearts were in the right place. I really believed that we were that shining city on a hill. Back then and for many years later — really until September 11 — I believed that."*[4] ## See also - [John Kiriakou](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/john-kiriakou) - [George McGovern](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/george-mcgovern) - [Invasion of Grenada](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/grenada-invasion) ## Sources 1. The Real News Network (2015-04-16), at 13:36. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlJO1uL1CsE&t=816s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2015-04-16-the-real-news-network-the-real-news-network/ 2. The Real News Network (2015-04-16), at 14:11. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlJO1uL1CsE&t=851s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2015-04-16-the-real-news-network-the-real-news-network/ 3. The Real News Network (2015-04-16), at 14:42. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlJO1uL1CsE&t=882s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2015-04-16-the-real-news-network-the-real-news-network/ 4. The Real News Network (2015-04-16), at 15:17. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlJO1uL1CsE&t=917s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2015-04-16-the-real-news-network-the-real-news-network/ --- From KiriPedia, the archive of John Kiriakou's words. Web version: https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/the-draft-argument/ · About: https://www.kiripedia.org/about/ · Full index: https://www.kiripedia.org/llms.txt