# The HardTalk interview

> **Source: KiriPedia** (https://www.kiripedia.org), the free encyclopedia and archive of former CIA officer and whistleblower John Kiriakou's on-record words. Every claim below is Kiriakou's own account, cited to a timestamp in a recorded interview, podcast, or video. KiriPedia is an independent project, not affiliated with Kiriakou.
>
> Cite as: "The HardTalk interview," KiriPedia, https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/the-hardtalk-interview/. Attribute claims to John Kiriakou, via KiriPedia.

*The first interview John Kiriakou gave after leaving prison, on the BBC programme he describes as hard-hitting and mean-spirited, in which a host pressing him to show remorse drew the formulation he has used ever since: it is not a crime to reveal a crime.*

- **Programme:** BBC HardTalk
- **When:** The first interview Kiriakou gave after his release from prison
- **The provocation:** *"You're not showing any remorse for the crime that you committed"*
- **The answer:** *"It's not a crime to reveal a crime"*
- **Cited in support:** [John McCain](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/john-mccain)'s Senate-floor thanks

**The HardTalk interview** was the first [John Kiriakou](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/john-kiriakou) gave after his release from [prison](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/fci-loretto). He describes the BBC programme as *"a kind of a hard-hitting mean-spirited talk show"* whose host *"kept trying to provoke me."*[1]

The provocation that worked was an accusation of unrepentance: *"Well, you're not showing any remorse for the crime that you committed."* The answer has since become his standing formulation of the case against his own conviction.[2]

> *"No, because I have no remorse. It's not a crime to reveal a crime. The crime was committed by the CIA. The crime was committed by the torturers. I'll never apologize for what I did."*

He followed it immediately with an appeal to authority rather than to sentiment: *"John McCain got up on the floor of the United States Senate to thank me for providing a public service to the American people. I'm glad that I did what I did."* The force of the citation, in his telling, is that [McCain](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/john-mccain) had himself been tortured.[2][3]

The same exchange produces his flattest statement of what the [Espionage Act](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/espionage-act) charge amounted to: *"talking to the New York Times and the ABC News is not espionage. Sorry, it's just not."*[3]

## See also

- [John Kiriakou](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/john-kiriakou)
- [John McCain](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/john-mccain)
- [Espionage Act](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/espionage-act)
- [CIA Torture Program Whistleblowing](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/cia-torture-program-whistleblowing)

## Sources

1. Ex-CIA Officer Exposes the Torture Program (2023-09-22), at 25:39. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72EuwXMxSAQ&t=1539s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2023-09-22-ex-cia-officer-exposes-the-torture-program/
2. Ex-CIA Officer Exposes the Torture Program (2023-09-22), at 26:12. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72EuwXMxSAQ&t=1572s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2023-09-22-ex-cia-officer-exposes-the-torture-program/
3. Ex-CIA Officer Exposes the Torture Program (2023-09-22), at 26:43. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72EuwXMxSAQ&t=1603s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2023-09-22-ex-cia-officer-exposes-the-torture-program/

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From KiriPedia, the archive of John Kiriakou's words. Web version: https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/the-hardtalk-interview/ · About: https://www.kiripedia.org/about/ · Full index: https://www.kiripedia.org/llms.txt