# The Maxwell Justice Department interview > **Source: KiriPedia** (https://www.kiripedia.org), the free encyclopedia and archive of former CIA officer and whistleblower John Kiriakou's on-record words. Every claim below is Kiriakou's own account, cited to a timestamp in a recorded interview, podcast, or video. KiriPedia is an independent project, not affiliated with Kiriakou. > > Cite as: "The Maxwell Justice Department interview," KiriPedia, https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/the-maxwell-justice-department-interview/. Attribute claims to John Kiriakou, via KiriPedia. *Ghislaine Maxwell's July 2025 interview with the Justice Department, in which her counsel said she took the fifth on nothing and answered every question, a risk John Kiriakou reads as evidence she was probably telling the truth, and as an approach for a commutation or a pardon.* - **Who requested it:** Maxwell, according to the reporting Kiriakou cites - **Scope:** Wide-ranging; her counsel said she answered every question - **The fifth amendment:** Not invoked on anything - **The risk:** Perjury exposure, which could extend her sentence - **Kiriakou''s inference:** 'To me, that indicates someone who''s probably telling the truth' - **What he thinks she wants:** A commutation, even a pardon - **His caveat:** 'This has to be speculation because we really don''t know' **The Maxwell Justice Department interview** was the wide-ranging July 2025 questioning of [Ghislaine Maxwell](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/ghislaine-maxwell) by the Department of Justice, which according to her counsel she had requested and in which she invoked the fifth amendment on nothing and answered every question.[1] ## Why the risk matters [John Kiriakou](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/john-kiriakou)'s reading turns on exposure rather than content. A prisoner who answers everything can be prosecuted for perjury if any of it is false, and a perjury conviction could extend her sentence: *"it was very risky to answer these questions."* From that he draws his inference, *"to me, that indicates someone who's probably telling the truth"*, and compares it to the position of a plaintiff who sues for defamation and thereby submits to discovery.[2] On motive he is explicit that he is guessing: *"we, this has to be speculation because we really don't know."*[3] What he thinks is being sought is *"some sort of a commutation, even a pardon"*, which he did not consider a stretch given the reporting, and which he thought [Donald Trump](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/donald-trump), *"being Trump"*, would not rule out.[4] The obvious objection was put to him, that a pardon would free her to talk, when silence is what Trump would want. Kiriakou could not resolve it either, allowing only the possibility that a pardon might be given *"for being quiet"*.[4][5] ## The names are not the question Kiriakou uses the interview to restate an objection he had made the previous week to [Pam Bondi](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/pam-bondi)'s statement that the videos in the government's possession were child pornography that would never be released. His answer was that nobody had asked for them: *"We don't want to see the child porn. We want to know the names of the men committing crimes against children. That's what we want to know."*[3] That distinction governs how he treats the names that surfaced afterwards. Bill Clinton, John Kerry and *"a handful of other people who are well known to every single American"* were reported among them, and Kiriakou's response was to hold the question open rather than close it: *"the question remains, who were the guys committing crimes against children?"*[5] ## What he thinks it was Asked what the underlying arrangement actually amounted to, Kiriakou declined the intelligence framing. It was, he thought, *"not about necessarily a honeypot operation"* and *"not about Mossad necessarily or probably"*, but *"probably just like gross dudes drinking and doing drugs and having a good time"*, and doing things that were illegal and immoral, some of them, not all. His image for it is a party with something going on in another room: *"maybe you don't go into that other room and maybe you do go into that other room."*[6] On Maxwell herself he is unequivocal. Asked whether she had been railroaded, he answered *"oh, I don't think so. I think she was guilty"*, adding that others should have been prosecuted alongside her and [Epstein](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/jeffrey-epstein) but that *"she got what she deserved."* She procured, and that is settled.[7] ## See also - [Ghislaine Maxwell](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/ghislaine-maxwell) - [Maxwell at a work camp](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/maxwell-at-a-work-camp) - [Pam Bondi](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/pam-bondi) - [Jeffrey Epstein](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/jeffrey-epstein) - [The Mayflower Madam Analogy](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/the-mayflower-madam-analogy) - [Why Maxwell took the Fifth](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/why-maxwell-took-the-fifth) ## Sources 1. DeProgram Show with Ted Ra (2025-07-25), at 43:42. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RypVxybJzHo&t=2622s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2025-07-25-deprogram-show-with-ted-ra-deprogram-show-with-ted-ra/ 2. DeProgram Show with Ted Ra (2025-07-25), at 44:13. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RypVxybJzHo&t=2653s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2025-07-25-deprogram-show-with-ted-ra-deprogram-show-with-ted-ra/ 3. DeProgram Show with Ted Ra (2025-07-25), at 44:43. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RypVxybJzHo&t=2683s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2025-07-25-deprogram-show-with-ted-ra-deprogram-show-with-ted-ra/ 4. DeProgram Show with Ted Ra (2025-07-25), at 45:46. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RypVxybJzHo&t=2746s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2025-07-25-deprogram-show-with-ted-ra-deprogram-show-with-ted-ra/ 5. DeProgram Show with Ted Ra (2025-07-25), at 46:17. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RypVxybJzHo&t=2777s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2025-07-25-deprogram-show-with-ted-ra-deprogram-show-with-ted-ra/ 6. DeProgram Show with Ted Ra (2025-07-25), at 48:21. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RypVxybJzHo&t=2901s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2025-07-25-deprogram-show-with-ted-ra-deprogram-show-with-ted-ra/ 7. DeProgram Show with Ted Ra (2025-07-25), at 47:50. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RypVxybJzHo&t=2870s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2025-07-25-deprogram-show-with-ted-ra-deprogram-show-with-ted-ra/ --- From KiriPedia, the archive of John Kiriakou's words. Web version: https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/the-maxwell-justice-department-interview/ · About: https://www.kiripedia.org/about/ · Full index: https://www.kiripedia.org/llms.txt