# The second plane > **Source: KiriPedia** (https://www.kiripedia.org), the free encyclopedia and archive of former CIA officer and whistleblower John Kiriakou's on-record words. Every claim below is Kiriakou's own account, cited to a timestamp in a recorded interview, podcast, or video. KiriPedia is an independent project, not affiliated with Kiriakou. > > Cite as: "The second plane," KiriPedia, https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/the-second-plane/. Attribute claims to John Kiriakou, via KiriPedia. *John Kiriakou's account of where he was standing when United Airlines Flight 175 struck the South Tower, in Cofer Black's outer office, mid-sentence, explaining to a secretary why a pilot could not possibly fly into the World Trade Center on so clear a day.* - **Date:** 11 September 2001 - **Where:** Cofer Black's outer office, CIA headquarters - **What he was saying:** That a 1945 aircraft hit the Empire State Building in fog - **What happened mid-sentence:** The second aircraft struck the South Tower - **The secretary's question:** "Did you see that? Or did I imagine it?" **The second plane** is John Kiriakou's account of the moment on 11 September 2001 when he understood that the United States was under attack. ## The errand Kiriakou was due at the White House that morning with Cofer Black for a meeting with Condoleezza Rice. He received a call telling him their car was ready and walked over to Black's office to say it was time to go. [1] Black's secretary had a television on her desk, a novelty at the time, in Kiriakou's telling, and one of the towers of the World Trade Center was burning. Kiriakou asked what had happened, and was told that a plane had flown into it. [1] ## Mid-sentence His reply, which he prefaces by calling himself an idiot, was that this had happened once before, that in the 1930s a plane had flown into the Empire State Building, but that it had been rainy and foggy that day, and that on so clear a morning as this one it was hard to see how a pilot could fail to see the World Trade Center. [2] Just as he said it, the second plane hit. The secretary turned to him and asked: *"Did you see that? Or did I imagine it?"* [2] Kiriakou ran back to his own office and told his colleagues that two planes had struck both towers and that they were under attack. [3] What followed, in the Counterterrorism Center's front office, was the scene culminating in Cofer Black's speech from his desk. [4] ## A second telling, and a date that moves The 2025 account places the moment precisely: he was in Cofer Black's outer office, having been told the car was ready for a meeting with [Condoleezza Rice](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/condoleezza-rice), and the secretary had a small television on her desk *"back in the day when you couldn't watch TV on your computer."* One tower was burning. *"What happened to the World Trade Center?" "A plane flew into it."*[5][6] His own contribution he introduces against himself, *"because I'm an idiot, I said…"*[6] > *"You know, that happened once before, 1932. A plane flew into the Empire State Building, but it was really foggy and rainy, and it's so crystal clear today. How can you not see that you're flying into the World Trade Center? And as soon as the words came out of my mouth, the second plane flew in."* The reaction is what he stresses. *"And neither one of us reacted. And then finally she turned to me and she said, 'Did you see that or did I imagine it?'"* He then ran back to his own office: *"Guys, two planes just hit both towers of the World Trade Center. I think we're under attack."*[7] The year he gives for the Empire State Building crash in this telling is 1932, where he gives 1945 elsewhere in the corpus; both are recorded as spoken. ## See also - [The Condoleezza Rice Meeting](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/the-condoleezza-rice-meeting) - ["We're at war today"](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/we-are-at-war-today) - [Cofer Black](https://www.kiripedia.org/wiki/cofer-black) ## Sources 1. Episode 572 Blowing the Whistle with John Kiriakou (2021-09-25), at 22:46. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=audd3a7d0e6&t=1366s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2021-09-25-abe-lincoln-s-top-hat-episode-572-blowing-the-whistle-with-john-kir/ 2. Episode 572 Blowing the Whistle with John Kiriakou (2021-09-25), at 23:16. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=audd3a7d0e6&t=1396s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2021-09-25-abe-lincoln-s-top-hat-episode-572-blowing-the-whistle-with-john-kir/ 3. Episode 572 Blowing the Whistle with John Kiriakou (2021-09-25), at 23:46. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=audd3a7d0e6&t=1426s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2021-09-25-abe-lincoln-s-top-hat-episode-572-blowing-the-whistle-with-john-kir/ 4. Episode 572 Blowing the Whistle with John Kiriakou (2021-09-25), at 24:17. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=audd3a7d0e6&t=1457s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2021-09-25-abe-lincoln-s-top-hat-episode-572-blowing-the-whistle-with-john-kir/ 5. title doesn't name John — confirm presence (2025-06-01), at 2:06. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r560eBIwWE&t=126s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2025-06-01-stephen-gardner-title-doesn-t-name-john-confirm-presence/ 6. title doesn't name John — confirm presence (2025-06-01), at 2:37. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r560eBIwWE&t=157s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2025-06-01-stephen-gardner-title-doesn-t-name-john-confirm-presence/ 7. title doesn't name John — confirm presence (2025-06-01), at 3:07. Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r560eBIwWE&t=187s · Transcript: https://www.kiripedia.org/sources/2025-06-01-stephen-gardner-title-doesn-t-name-john-confirm-presence/ --- From KiriPedia, the archive of John Kiriakou's words. 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